well, the darn thing is out

[gmwillys]

It's a short list anyway. Rome wasn't built in a day, and short cuts cost you more in the long run. You'll have me beat by a long shot, in terms of being on the road.

[pelago]

Found out some interesting solutions to some problems
nc dmv do not need a inspection too old can get insurance which covers total loss and liability for about 100.00 a year and that includes driving it 2500 miles a year

[pelago]

i did a major screw up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Somehow, and i have no idea how++ but somehow i forgot to put the gasket on for the cover over the valve adj side cover for the 134 f engine. discovered that yesterday, when i was at my workbencch and looked up and saw the gasket hanging there at the same safe location i put it when i took the cover off. i put it there so nothing would happen to it, well nothing happened to it all right especially since i forgot to put it on the damn thing. All i can say is i blew it, but when i took the cover off i could see the outline of the gasket and probably thought at the time that the gasket was there when i put cover on. could still see the outline of the gasket... well i cleaned the area again and now have the gasket on. what a idiottic thing to do, and to answer the question, that is the only one i forgothttps://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-non-detergent-sae30-2-gal?cm_vc=IOPDP1

[gmwillys]

It happens to the best of us. At least it wasn't thrown out with the trash. Insurance is cheap, being the age of the Jeep, and your intended purpose. I've had insurance on my CJ2, but have yet to get the license plate. This is a no title state, so a bill of sale is all I need, but it is no fun going to the registration office. I have to put it on the trailer, then they have to verify the serial number. I have been driving it around with the expired Illinois plate. Nobody really cares.

[pelago]

i can get a plaate, and am in the works for a title, the DMV guy that is inspecting it and working with me is quite interested in the progress, but i have a original ID Plate which helped establish the date of manufacture and the year

[LarrBeard]

In Indiana, when you re-register a vehicle that has been sitting for a number of years, you pay a penalty for the number of years it sat without it having been properly registered.

Since I really wanted the registration, I kept my opinion of that rule to myself and just said "Thank you, ma'am".

And, oh by the way, if that is the worst screw up you want to brag about - go to the back of the line. We all have better ones than that to tell about!

[gmwillys]

I can tell on myself. I was working on a Gallion road grader. One of the moldboard lift cylinders was leaking at the rod packing. That's not a big deal, just lower the moldboard to where it rest on the ground, then unbolt the rod end from the the carrier. Loosen the cap end hydraulic line then tipped the cylinder up to drain the contents of the cap end. Then loosen the rod end hose and let drain. From there the torch had to be brought out to warm up the collar to bust it loose. Everything was going to plan this far. Since the cylinder was still mounted to the grader, I felt proud of myself for being so ingenious. With the collar cooled off, it was time to let gravity do its job, with minimal effort on my part, to then drop the rod end out of the bore. Whet the packing reached the end of the bore, it usually takes a couple of whacks to get the packing past the end. Well, here where everything goes to hell. When the packing exits the bore, there was a gallon or so of hydraulic fluid sitting on top of the packing. In all my brilliance, when I thought I managed to successfully drain the cylinder, it all didn't. That wouldn't be that bad of a deal, I've made bigger messes on purpose, but I had decided that the best way to handle the rod end was to bear hug it. When the packing released the residual oil, it dumped down the front of me. The worst part was that the majority of the oil went down the pant leg, filling my boot with oil. I kept a change of uniforms at the shop, just for such an emergency, but not a spare pair of boots. Word to the wise, floor dry will pull the lion share of oil from the boot. I didn't have to polish them for the remainder of their life span.

[pelago]

New gasket set arrived today, put it on and no more exh leaks, making progress, sure sounds funny with that damned 24" glaspak on there carb rebuild and new plug wires next, carb leaking fuel when running, that's bad, but have two complete carbs and found out that the people that make new inserts have all the sizes and i have some places on the carb body that are stripped. will order a set for repair and put inserts in the carb body. Did have one problem when making sure all bolts tight i managed to wring one off on the oil pump (damn) got to take the pump off and dig out the old piece of busted bolt, that is always such fun. wonder if i should take it to someone that does that all day long and knows precisely what yto do, i have done it but managed to screw up the threads couple of times would imagine a good machine shop has the talent and expertise that i do not have

ALSO....... Anyone tell me why there is a external line from side of engine down at the oil internal line going from that point up to the head?? right next to the bell house covering, pain in the ***................
mine has a pesky leak and only way i can see to eliminate it is to remove the fittings from head, and block, replace with new clean threads and new line and bend it and re attach. was hoping that the old one would be good, but obviously not, do not object to doing the complete replace, but looking at 30 bucks for something that may or not be needed????

[gmwillys]

There is a gentleman somewhere in your neck of the woods, that takes Jeep carbs and completely rebuilds/tunes them. Look up old Jeep Carbs, online.

The oil line I am thinking of goes from the tap on the left side, goes up to the left side rear head. If memory serves me, the oil line feeds to the top end of the head. It is important, so I would definitely fix it.

[LarrBeard]

Ira;

Is this the line you were describing?

GMWillys was right - it supplies oil to the rocker arms at the top of the engine - you gotta have it. As you can see, I rigged a temporary line on the '48. (I kept the original line after the rebuild, but the flare split at the bottom. I tried to save a buck or two...).

I couldn't find it in the catalog, but Mike knows what it is and I have the correct one hanging on the pegboard ready to go on the engine when I change oil in a week or so - when Spring comes back. (I still can't find it in the catalog).

By the time you buy a parts store piece of line, a couple of clamps, a piece of hose and spend an hour or so cutting, deburring and bending a makeshift line, you have spent more time than just getting the nicely bent proper replacement. (Oh yes - if you want to make one - make sure to get English threads on the fittings at both ends, not one metric - one English)

[pelago]

METRIC VERSUS STANDARD USA!!! ran into that, pain in the ***,,, the brake fitting that kaiser sells use correct npt threads but the bolt size is metric????
THATS THE LINE ALL RIGHT!
the SUNDAY QUESTION ONE OF THE BOX STORES HAS PRE MEASURED 1/4" AND 5/16 inch lines, so here is the question. Oil flow and pressure, would you get the same oil flow and pressure if the size of the line is increased?? Even though i have one of those nifty line benders, my bending skills are not what they should be. worse for 1/4"???? So is there any change in oil flow if the size of that little line goes from 1/4" to 5/16" ??

BUT AS YOU SUGGEST LESS OF A PAIN TO JUST CALL MIKE AND SEND ME THE LINE...
BTW after 30 min of run time my oil pressure is a steady 30lbs with 30wt Real happy about that
And the voltage on the original meter (cracked lense and all) is in the green and the simpson says 28vdc. happy about that

[51 CJ3]

According to Bernoulli’s Principle, increasing line size would increase flow and decrease pressure in that area but it should return to normal where the passage gets reduced again.

[51 CJ3]

I just took a look at the pictures of the line. If you are looking at duplicating that line I wouldn’t think it would be very hard. Probably only need the bender for the top bend. I may be missing something but it looks to me like that would be a better and easier option than trying to plumb in a bigger line.

[LarrBeard]

I have seen at least two different versions of the line; one has a full circle relief at the top - the current version just has a shepherd's crook.

I can't bend up a line and get that cute little curl to clear the #4 plug - at least not as nice as Mike's.

[pelago]

I have seen at least two different versions of the line; one has a full circle relief at the top - the current version just has a shepherd's crook.

I can't bend up a line and get that cute little curl to clear the #4 plug - at least not as nice as Mike's.



that is just like the one i have on the motor and leaks at both ends, feel tht the flare is probably bad.................. cool add that to the order on 1st, carb kit, plug wires and oil line

[pelago]

BTW, I ACTUALLY GO THE BUSTED BOLT OUT OF THE OIL PUMP.


2526

BUT DAMN THING STILL LEAKS LOOK LIKE I GOTTA GET THE $18.00 OIL PUMP REBUILD KIT.... MIGHT EVEN TAKE THE PUMP OFF THE OTHER MOTOR AND REBUILD IT AND PUT THAT ONE IN THE MOTOR PLANNING ON USING

HERE IS THE OLD GIRL RUNNING, ROUGH BUT RUNNING POINT AND SUCH COMING (ORIGINAL POINTS AND PLUGS AND WORE OUT WIRES)

https://www.facebook.com/ira.r.jones/videos/10215769624583328/UzpfSTE1MjUyOTgyMzE6MTAyMTU3Njk3Mjk2MjU5N

[pelago]

THESE OLD MOTORS ARE COOOOOOOL Think for sure will do a complete rebuild job on the extra motor, dip it, new rings, bearings, if crank needs to be turned do so, if pistons or cylinders need work, do so. My neighbor just wheeled in a engine stand that hooks to *** end of engine.. valves and all that..... play with the motor i got and then drop in a completely ready to go new motor. nice having two of them. i paid 1200.00 for two m38a1 from two different people

[pelago]

BACK TO BUSY WORK. Rebuilt inst cluster with all new correct year gauges, picture has glare on it but all displays are new. interesting note thogh, i took all of the old gauges and using alligator clips to each guage and damn they all still worked..... not pretty but accurate. tested the odometer with drill its fine. old one not so good.. anyone need them amp, batt, temp and oil pressure, make me a offer i can not refuse2527

[pelago]

NEW QUESTION???
Carter YS carb. Seems to have 2 different size machine screws used to assemble these things. I have two of these carbs they have one thing in common. the top assembly has two thread holes stripped. looks like a helicoil repair coming up and a carb kit at same time, but if it can not repair the screw holes it is a waste of time?

ALSO right above the fuel intake that is a "vent" line, what is this used for? can it be blocked off? is this part of the myriad of vent lines for turning into a submarine?

2539



comments

[gmwillys]

It depends how much meat is around the bolt hole. You can do one of three things to fix the threads. Drill and tap for the next size larger, (but that would involve indexing the holes to match on the top cover and gasket). Next would be to use a helicoil, for the correct size. Then you could fill the hole with JB Weld, let cure, and drill and tap.

The vent line does in fact make your Jeep submarine ready. You do not want to cap it off solid, then the float bowl will struggle to fill. If you are inclined to remove the vent line, then I would look for a bronze breather fitting that would fit into the vent lines place on the carb.

[LarrBeard]

The Carter YF used 10-27 screws, not 10-24, to put the top onto the body. It was not uncommon to see 10-24's cross threaded in place. JB Weld fixes whatever duct tape won't. I have drilled and tapped JB Weld and used it as a screw thread insert.

[pelago]

(6) 10 27 on top, (4) 10 24 for the base

2540

do not or cant find a 10 27 tap, 10 24 i got, last time i did something like this was in sophomore year in hs, and that was not yesterday, had taps and dies on my boat i figured if i got somewhere and broke something i had better be able to fix it, in ten years only used them twice, but got metric and us

just went to google and tried 10 27 machine screws and got every othere size??

once again confused 10 27?? can not find on chart??


2541

[51 CJ3]

You just saved me a search. I had never heard of 10-27. I know none of my tap and die sets have it. I think the only place I have seen 27 pitch is on pipe thread. I think 10-32 is the most common today but that may just be from my aviation background.

[pelago]

thanks for that, was going nuts tearing stuff apart looking for 10/27 doesnt or dont normal sizes go from 6/32 8/32 10/24 10/32? i need to get one of those little sizer deals, where you thread into a piece of steel and it tells you, or you have a stud and it tells you

[51 CJ3]

Those are the sizes I am familiar with. Carter may have made their own hardware.

[pelago]

well the one carb that i tried is a disaster, and it goes thru 2 gal in about 20 minutes,,, the exhaust end is total black and full of soot, desperate need of rebuild but got to correct the threads, the four base screws are tight but one of the top (smaller ones in picture) is completely gone. jb weld was suggested and i used it once on a cracked thermostat housing on my diesel and it lasted until i returned to the US and got a direct replacement from universal. but it held. I feel more comfortable getting a helicoil kit and repairing it by reaming larger and then tapping with the correct tap and then inserting new threads, they make the correct one. and i have two carbs, probably will get two kits one for the larger screw and one for the smaller one so i can do the 2nd carter.

[51 CJ3]

I have heard of drilling and tapping JB Weld. There are a lot of success stories doing it but I have never attempted it myself. As long as it isn’t a stressed part or won’t have gas against it all the time it should do well. I would have a hard time getting the hole exacty where it is needed so I would balk at using it too. I might try it, if I could find the correct tap, because the hole required to try JB Weld would not need to be as big as a hole to install a helicoil.

I know JB Weld doesn’t like gasoline. I crawled under a pickup to investigate a gas leak. Gas was coming from a JB Weld patch. The JB Weld had rubberized and was coming loose. The hole was about the size of a pencil lead. The owner said the JB Weld had been there for about 3 years and had me put fresh JB Weld on it.

[pelago]

this is a guess, but in their past lives these two carbs have been broken down and instead of recognizing that there are two different sizes of machine screws, the individual(s) put it back together with the larger machine screws forced into the smaller holes. just a guess, but both of the carbs have good bottom screws holding the base plate on, but each one of them have one or more top screw holes enlarged with the larger ones forced in, and of course there lies the problem.

i just might tap the other holes out and just use the larger machine screws thru out?? or helicoil the correct size threads into the damaged holes. Might be wrong but i think that the helicoils option just might be the better of the two choices.

and i need to completely re gasket the oil pump oil coming out the top plate at pretty good flow. so pulling oil pump again... and pulling distributor out also . took the valve cover off to easily obtain TDC #1 and leave it til all repaired, rebuilt. new points and parts for distributor, carb rebuild (s) and new wires, ought to make it run pretty damn good. runs now but kinda ragged

[gmwillys]

A helicoil would be your best option. It is true that JB Weld is not as gas friendly, as stated by 51 CJ3.

[pelago]

there are things i am good at and things not so good, i can not look at a machine bolt and say "that is a 10-24" i need to get one of those gauges.

[gmwillys]

I was given a thread gauge from Fastenal. We deal with a mixture of metric and a few standard bolt sizes, and not all the bolts are marked. China freight may have them also. My eyes aren't worth a darn either.

[pelago]

yeah, and probably going to need two of the helicoil kits, dont want to get what i dont need, so, will be getting a gauge, holding off on running the motor until i get one of the two carbs rebuilt, and new plug wires (damn they aint cheap) the way they are now 2 gal gas in less than 30 min of run time, and they are richer than hell, and new points cap and condenser, have the oil pump out and valve cover off and am at TDC #1, checked valve clearance and they are all good, but sure feel like they are noisy, but then again with a 24" glass pak who can tell, mufflers and exh soon (actually getting good at the re install of dist and oil pump, point to #1 shallow side down on pump and put it together). I do want to get this portion done so i can bring the body in to start its rebuild.............

[gmwillys]

If you run into any tuning or carb related issues, this guy is the top shelf guy to ask;

http://oldjeepcarbs.com/

I bet you are past ready to start the body work.

[pelago]

THERE ARE MANY MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF MACHINE BOLTS ON THESE THINGS THAT KAISER DOES NOT SELL. what is a good spuirce of say a assortment of machine bolts, and screws for carb, inside the distributor, distributor cap??

[LarrBeard]

For some reason Willys used a lot of fine-thread bolts to hold things together.

Do you have a Fastenal store near you? They're not too bad for a mill supply box store.

They have a lot of nuts, bolts and screw type hardware available - maybe not on the shelf but a day or so away in their central warehouse. If you have a sample to show them, they can usually identify and match it.

You can shop around on line and then go to the store to verify the part once you think you've found it.

They've been very helpful in matching some of the weird metric screws and bolts with European heads.

[pelago]

https://www.fastenal.com/ oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh they got one in jacksonville nc oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh

yeah i need the screws that hold the plate down inside the distributor, the distributor cap, screw after the helicoil repair on carb, and that should be it unless i have to tear into the generator or the voltage regulator but they seem to be working??? fine??? at least the voltmeter is indicating good charge voltage of about 27-29 volts, have not had it running long enough to see it settle down, but then again am used to three stage alternator and that runs at idle a 13.1 or so, on my boat i lived between 12.9VDC and 16+, that was with five large trojans and my wind gen and solar panels and digiral readout of house bank batteries, will have to get used to the generator like my 56 buick had

[LarrBeard]

If the generator is being regulated at 27 - 29 volts, I'd guess that the voltage regulator is doing what it should.

If you get the irresistible urge to open up the regulator (and most of us who play with radios will get that urge), other than cleaning up obvious rust and corroded spots, I'd just run some paper moistened with alcohol (or contact cleaner if you have some) between the points of the relays to clean any resident crud away.

If I remember correctly, there are a couple of capacitors in the 24-volt regulator for radio noise suppression as well as one diode. If the diode opened, you'd probably never know it and if it shorted, it would have disappeared in a flash of light and a puff of magic smoke. Other than the few radio parts, it's a three relay regulator, just set up for 24-volt system.

Leave working on the regulator for a rainy day after you get body work finished.

A friend of mine who has an M38 very strongly recommends using a battery maintainer to keep the batteries topped off. I suspect he may have an undiagnosed electrical system sneak path leak since he replaces batteries way too often - but the battery maintainer is a lot less money than replacing even one battery.

My goal today is to change the oil in the '48 and maybe start cleaning up the radiator burp residue...

[pelago]

i spent some time on the fastenal web site and they have all the various helicoil repair kits, when i go in with all the stuff i need i will be able to at least order the kits if they are not stocked.

un diagnosed leak, been there and done that on my 35 footer,,,lots of snoopin and poopin in all the hard to get places,,, what was worse was floating ground and the differential between batteries on one bank. had a navy doctor that had a aluminum house boat that got horribly beat up with electrolysis so bad that it almost sank his boat, the alum was eaten up so bad the boat could not be saved, and problem was the manufacture lodated his house supply with improper 120vac the thing actuyally sizzled at the dock

regulator and generator if it aint broke dont fix it but all monitor systems tell me they are working, and i have two of them.... thinking way ahead but when the body is done and the thing is drivable might just do a complete rebuild on 2nd 134f engine. my neighbor has a engine stand that the engine block can hang on... kind of looking forward to that, since it is so straight forward. rings, bearings, crank, cylinders. do all the magic to the motor and have a basically brand new motor

[pelago]

think i have a line on complete parking brake assy ....................
also you know what is amazing !!!!! this damn thread has 44000 hits on it, damn!!!!!!!!!

[LarrBeard]

think i have a line on complete parking brake assy ....................
also you know what is amazing !!!!! this damn thread has 44000 hits on it, damn!!!!!!!!!

Ira, people love a good story, especially when they are learning from all your posts. Keep on tellin' is all of the aw-poohs.

[gmwillys]

I agree. We all learn something from your work. I'm not surprised at the amount of views that you have had. Much more to come.

[pelago]

well, back in the "busy stuff mode" at least until more pieces and parts get here, took the distributor off the other motor and damn....... some airhead in one of its previous lives decided he needed to "correct" the dc voltage to distributor

2547

what ya gonna do, some hairball insteaed of thinking it out did this, yeah i can fix it for 100.00 with a new bottom for dist but this nitwit did not do any favors

[gmwillys]

No wonder you were having issues.

[LarrBeard]

The next time you have the distributor off the other engine, look around on the connector that sends power to the unit. It may have a MIL connector number (such as MS3106C8-1S). A lot of the M38 connectors look like that series. If you get a chance, share that number. There are sources for those connectors, and some are $20 items - but then there are some rare ones that nobody makes or stocks any more.

But, now you have a source to find samples of the screws you are looking for.

[pelago]

looking at that web site and sent them a photo and inquiry. brings up another fact. this guy used the same plug wires to conventional plugs, and the plug wires actually looked good and were in pretty good shape except for the fact that the business end of the wire was cut off and conventional style connectors put on the ends. 260.00 worth of cables fXXXked up.
brings up another question the coil itself, since this jeep was haphazardly converted to 12 volt (and i have not pulled the coil from the screwed up distributor) what about the coil? 24vdc coild and 12vdc coil same?

[gmwillys]

The 24vdc coil is unique to the military distributor. I know I have thrown 12 volts at a 6 volt coil for limited amounts of time without issue, but have not put 12 volts to a 24 coil. The results would most likely be a lazy yellow spark at the plugs. I have not seen a coil that could be retrofitted into a 24 volt distributor. All of the conversions that I've seen have been taking a civilian distributor and replacing the mill spec unit.

Here is a good source for all your Douglas connector needs;

https://www.willysjeepparts.com/Wiring_C.htm

[pelago]

chances are the distributor on the spare motor is probably with a 12v coil then,,, thought that that would be the case, but i can get the correct coil

[pelago]

well, here is the next order
plug wires
carb rebuild kit
oil pump rebuild kit
distributor tune up kit
should make the motor run as fine as frogs hair........................

and talk about busy work, i took all of the plugs (which by the way arre all different manufacture) no two alike, and tumbled them in my brass media and wow did they come out clean
SO I BLUED THEM, WHY NOT, NOW THEY LOOK BRAND NEW
yeah right i am bored and want MY PARTS......................

[gmwillys]

Instead of bored, let's call it attention to detail.

[LarrBeard]

BORED!

There is a lot of that going around. Yesterday was a gray, misty rain day that kept the truck in the car barn (a down home term for a garage). For lack of anything else to do, I decided to go ahead and replace that oil line at the rear of the F-134 engine. It turned out to be a one-wrench/no knuckle skin job that took about 10 minutes. That little crook in the line is to clear the rear stud on the exhaust manifold, not #4 plug. If you're working down in the engine compartment, it helps to start at the bottom end and form the line to fit at the top. Now, I'm ...

... BORED again ...

You commented several posts ago about noisy lifters. Mine clack and clatter a bit too, but all of them sound the same. I suspect that we've gotten spoiled by modern valve trains that are a lot quieter than the ones designed 70+ years ago.

[pelago]

2560

blued spark plugs...............man am bored...........
hey when i was a kid, to clean a carb without spending money on carb cleaner we boiled them in a tablspoon of tide in one of moms pots and pans (never told her that, she would have killed me) guess with a carb as old as i am probably would still work, hey????

[LarrBeard]

If you stack it just right, you can get an oily, funky, gunky, nasty M1 Garand set of wood in the dishwasher. You wait until Momma is gone stopping and run it on pots and pans setting, then run a short cycle to get the grease smell out.o

You can also put a Winchester Model 12 bolt in a pressure cooker to get a high temp wash to clean off 45 years of hardened grease.I


Old sailors and Marines improvise!

[gmwillys]

As a bachelor, there were many times spent with something torn apart on the kitchen table. I learned those habits from my grandfather. He was notorious for bringing in his chain saw and cleaning it at the kitchen table. He would also remove the dishes from the sink and check tubes for leaks, before vulcanizing a patch. There may have been a time when helping a buddy rebuild his Wide Glide's engine in his living room. I do not recommend baking powder coat in your oven though, it leaves a funk that is hard to get rid of.

Whatever it takes to get the job done.

As far as tappet noise, LarrBeard is correct. Solid tappets will make some noise. With modern hydraulic lifters, that require a preload on them when tightening the rockers down, there is no end gap to make noise with. Some of the Chevy engines would tap a bit at idle, but run some kerosene in with the oil before an oil change, and the passages in the hydraulic lifter would clear out. No more tap.

[pelago]

Interesting, i have five model 1912's and 7 m1's


2561


Some of them live here, garands now listed to go to each grandschild

[LarrBeard]

Regarding Model 12's:

I am not a trap or skeet shooter, but from several friends that are I have heard that trap and skeet shooters have very fancy shotguns and have been known to wager large amounts of money on their ability to hit those little clay Frisbees.

But, one trap shooter told me that if some old guy showed up with a ratty Model 12 and wanted to bet on 23 out of 25, he would put his Beretta over-and-under in the case and run to the car. Never underestimate an old guy with a Model 12.

[pelago]

33" Full choke 1914 by serial number dead *** deadly on long duck shots with 2 3/4 inch shells and running deer on camp lejeune (shotgun only) got some 20gauge that are really sweet

[gmwillys]

A model 12 is a good running rig. My personal favorite is the Winchester model 59 semi 12 gauge, lightweight long barrel. Grouse and ducks didn't stand a chance. The barrel is fiberglass, with a full choke steel sleeve.

There was a man that was in his late 80s. He carried a well worn 30/30 Winchester. I saw him lob a shot at a deer at about 250 yards, from the hip. We saw him shoot, and he turned around and exclaimed that he got that s.o.b. One guy raised up his field glasses, and he yelled out that he did infact killed the deer. The darned thing dropped where he stood. A long story short, that man had that rifle since he was a child. He knew it inside and out, and what he could do with it. He only had that one weapon, so it was his go to for everything. Last word, he was burried with the rifle when he passed.

[pelago]

fortunate enough to have a few of those including original 73's2562

[51 CJ3]

Very nice! A lot of people greatly underestimate the old lever actions. I ran with a guy when I was stationed in Arizona who only hunted with the “old west” cartridges. 200 yards was a nothing shot for us with a 44-40 to kill a deer. I don’t think I ever tried to kill anything this far out with a 45-70 but I practiced 400+ yard shots. I put a guy with a 300 mag to shame shooting at a log across the Yukon River one day at Slavens Roadhouse (770 yds according to Google Earth). My eyes are getting bad enough that I no longer trust myself to make good shots with iron sights. I can see the target fine but not the sights.

[gmwillys]

I admit that I have a love affair with any weapon that has wood furniture. Plastic just doesn't have the right feel. An M14 is a far superior weapon in comparison to an M16. With that being said, the larger bore calibers are fun to shoot regardless of what the rifle is composed of.

[pelago]

One thing i noticed when i pulled the plugs after the short period that the engine was running... Damn were they carbond up, could scrape it off with fingernail, think it was the worst that i ever saw, with the beat up carb sure must have been running rich. and would it go thru gas 4 gallons in less than two hours running.
order list sent off today
carb kit
points, rotor and cap
oil pump repair kit (leaked on outside gasket, bad)
new plug wires
complete exhaust system (be glad to trash that short little firecracker glasspak)

got two carbs, took one apart and compared to the other one, seems to be coupld missing pieces and parts, but that will get sorted out, should have one good one out of two and the other one will be sent to that guy in ashboro for a rebuild he said he had all pieces and parts...

[pelago]

STEERING moving this thing without a steering wheel is kind of a pain in the butt. the wheel and the column need support from the dash, anyone got a suggestion that could allow steering to be connected while still in "frame and engine" mode??

[gmwillys]

As long as you use two hands on the steering wheel, you should not have an issue in steering. I have not removed the steering column on most of the M38A1 I have dealt with. The support at the dash is minimal, and as long as the steering gear box is mounted solid, there shouldn't be a problem. The transmission tunnel cover is big enough to allow the steering wheel to pass through, when pulling the tub.

Another option is to purchase or fabricate some car dollies. With the four swivel wheels on each wheel, you can maneuver the chassis in any direction, without having to jockey it back and forth. They are worth the money, but the cheap ones do not like having a Chevelle with a big block installed on them. It takes two people to move that tank around. The last picture are of the car dollies at work, when I was working on the tear down of our wagon.

https://www.ebay.com/b/Automotive-Dollies/179506/bn_1880704

[Boodogboo]

Here are pic of the hangers I have now. 25992600260126022603

[Boodogboo]

Spring brackets.2604

[Boodogboo]

Spring brackets.2605

[Boodogboo]

Spring brackets.2606

[Boodogboo]

What a mess!

[pelago]

This is what i started with
2615 2616

[pelago]

as long as you use two hands on the steering wheel, you should not have an issue in steering. I have not removed the steering column on most of the m38a1 i have dealt with. The support at the dash is minimal, and as long as the steering gear box is mounted solid, there shouldn't be a problem. The transmission tunnel cover is big enough to allow the steering wheel to pass through, when pulling the tub.

Another option is to purchase or fabricate some car dollies. With the four swivel wheels on each wheel, you can maneuver the chassis in any direction, without having to jockey it back and forth. They are worth the money, but the cheap ones do not like having a chevelle with a big block installed on them. It takes two people to move that tank around. The last picture are of the car dollies at work, when i was working on the tear down of our wagon.

https://www.ebay.com/b/automotive-dollies/179506/bn_1880704

\never knew that thes dollys existed. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[gmwillys]

They make life a whole lot easier. You can mover the chassis every which direction you want, without having to roll and steer. For Jeep work, the cheap ones work just fine. Anything heavier, I would opt for the better casters.

You have made a lot of progress from where you started.

[Boodogboo]

Yep, that is bad

[gmwillys]

Pelago,

Which body are you intending to use? In your picture of the two, the nearest one looks like it's fairly solid, as far as the front section of the toe board supports. The multi color tub in the back ground has lower rocker rot, so that tells me that the floor is soft. Just curious on my part. I was starting to figure out what you may need to get the body straightened out. Knowing that the tub will be in your next plan of attack.

[pelago]

GOT A GASKET SET FOR THE OIL PUMP??? The oil pump has only two gaskets,,, one under the end cap and one where the actual pump connects to the block. 2 gaskets. the kit has four and the little crush washer style gasket?? thought i would be able to bring up a diagram of the oil pump exploded, but cant find it

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/oil-pump-gasket-service-kit-fits-41-71-jeep-willys-with-4-134-engine in reality the smaller gasket i have two of them and the other 2 are close but not identical............. feel dumb

[pelago]

Pelago,

Which body are you intending to use? In your picture of the two, the nearest one looks like it's fairly solid, as far as the front section of the toe board supports. The multi color tub in the back ground has lower rocker rot, so that tells me that the floor is soft. Just curious on my part. I was starting to figure out what you may need to get the body straightened out. Knowing that the tub will be in your next plan of attack.

they both have their individual issue the one body off the jeep to far left has just about no floor period, the one that is on the right has passenger floor issues tool box, right rear wheel well, and passenger side rocker . the other one has both of those and more2617 once the engine is running as it should, and carb being rebuilt as we type here,,, have tune up parts to do, oil pump (see below) and just put in exhaust,,, (did dumb thing did not get hangers so it is bailing wire held on til i get hangers) , but it do have a exhaust. once this is done 10 days or so, then will wheel out into drive and double cover with a tarp then start with a BFH on the bodyt

[pelago]

BTW, SOLVED OR MAYBE JUST FIXED THE SCREWED THREADS ON CARB.

At fastenal i played with some different bolts and machine screws, found that i could go up one size 10/24, bought a bunch of em (damn they only had allen wrench heads, so now screw heads now) but came home and carefully tapped (without drilling) (EVER EVER SO SLOWLY, WITH LOTS OF REVERSE TURNS WITH TAP AND LOTS OF OIL) (holes pretty big, ) but was able to tap all of them and the carb now has black new machine screws holding the body to the rest of iT. THEY ARE ALL NOW NICE AND TIGHT AND SHOULD HOLD

[gmwillys]

The thickness of the gaskets is to set the end play on the gears. There is a procedure to measure the end play without any gasket installed. From memory, it was only a few thousands of an inch. If you have an original gasket, mich it for thickness, and pick a replacement gasket that is is the closest to the original. Too thick of a gasket, and the oil pressure would suffer.

[gmwillys]

Good deal on the carb. The larger Allen head screws will work better than the flat head screws.

[pelago]

The thickness of the gaskets is to set the end play on the gears. There is a procedure to measure the end play without any gasket installed. From memory, it was only a few thousands of an inch. If you have an original gasket, mich it for thickness, and pick a replacement gasket that is is the closest to the original. Too thick of a gasket, and the oil pressure would suffer.

DAMN!!! Glad i read that because kaiser said use both of them, not a trace of original gasket, but if i remember it was pretty darn thin, but it has been in there since it was made??? i put in the thinnest of the two, oil pressure prior to this was superb, will see

[pelago]

total investment including original purchase is now $5400.00 even, and that is very accurate on total cost so far ($1400.00 for original two jeeps)

[gmwillys]

Here is some information on oil pumps and gaskets;

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/oil-pump-passages-gasket_topic17841.html

http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=158848

Working through all the issues yourself, you have saved a bunch of money. It does help to have two examples of the same model, especially when it come down to doing the body work. Body measurements for fitting panels and floors are made easy when you can refer to the body of the spare. You made a wise investment in purchasing both A1s. The prices for these are going up, so you'll be money ahead, even if you do nothing to the second. When we started the A1 project, we lucked out and found three. One was only a parts tub and rotten frame with some serviceable parts. The second was descent, but had lots of extra civilian mods done to the tub. The third was a buildable project, but was missing the drivetrain. It was also nice to have an extra frame to place the body on while setting body mounts. This freed up the restoration frame to be worked and painted while the body work was completed.

[gmwillys]

The first picture is of taking the body off as a whole unit, to expose the frame to place the restoration tub. The second is of the restoration frame after removing all the grease. The third is after the driver's side floor after replacement, then the final is after the passenger floor was removed.

[gmwillys]

A few more pictures of the body work, along with the finished A1. In short, when you get to the point of doing the body work, I'll give all the help I can.

[pelago]

as soon as she fires up on four and runs good....................
bringing the body in probably on a cart like what you did.
it was also suggested that i use a additive to restore zinc in the oil and that the older oils had zinc in them as addlitional wear protection..... thoughts??

engine started fine, maybe 3rd rev then fired up, idle is good, and although lifters a bit noisey all indications are good, great oil pressure and temp is 165degrees

[gmwillys]

The sawhorses make life a whole lot easier, when working on the tub. My current horses are heavy enough to support the frame and body all at once. It's all on casters, so the body can be rolled out to clean up the shop floor.

Zinc and phosphate are important for flat tappet engine. You can buy additive to put in with your conventional oil. I use the non detergent SAE 30 from TSC. I need to look to see how much zinc is included in it.

[pelago]

another thing i learned from my friend Mike, was that when the oil pump is broken down and removed for whatever reason is that the thing has to be packed with grease to enable it to draw oil up into it. no grease no first suction to get oil flowing and since the oil pump sits basically up side down the oil stays in it... got a pesky leak around oil pump where it butts up against the block, that is project for today. not removing it but loosening it and getting sealant in there.

i think i got it fixed packed in more of that tacky gasket seal, let it sit and tightened it down

2633

2634

[pelago]

now another leak,,,, on the front of the pan there is a shield for timing cover,,, two of the bolts always have oil, wet oil, there and it drips,,,,, do not want to take pan off, ideas?? these are part of the ones that have the standoffs??

[gmwillys]

I assume that all of the standoffs are in place? If any or all are missing, then it would be easy to deform the oil pan, or not be able to torque the pan completely if one was missing. If these bolts are over torqued, then the pan flattens out to create an oil path to the outside. None of the oil pan bolt holes are open to the crank case, so they are considered blind holes. If the oil is coming from the middle two bolts, then I would look at the front crank seal. If it is on the outer bolts, especially around the fuel pump, then I would ensure the oil line coming from the filter housing isn't leaking.

[pelago]

oil leaks
lets see if i can explain this. front leak dirty oil, drops, but maybe not oil pan, the way the whole thing sits is the front end of the engine is the lowest point and oil might follow to the easiest placed to drip?? i have this piece of tubing that carries oil from journal to the head, and there is some seepage at the fitting, have not replaced it yet, but plan on it. there is oil there.

rear end
when i run the motor and lay under neath with a light i see no oil at all, when turn motor off, and then come back there is oil, but it is clean? and not so sure it is oil but maybe gear lube. what if i inadvertently (that means i did it but it is not my fault) over filled transmission, would that force gear lube out the spline end at the front and what i am seeing is overflow from transmission??

damn thing runs too good to take it all apart??

[51 CJ3]

I can usually tell the difference between gear oil and engine oil just by the smell if not by feel. Overfilled by how much? I can't see the output shaft seals leaking unless grossly over-serviced or there is a problem with the seal. My front yoke had a bad groove in it and had to be replaced.

[gmwillys]

Did you fill the tranny with the top cover off? If you filled it from the side,even with the body off, it would still drain out before putting the plug in. It's ponderous.

Gaskets and seals will pull a vacuum when the PCV system is working, then when the engine is shut down, it drains out the path of least resistance.

[pelago]

well for starters, i drained both tranny and transfer case, it needed it, pretty crappy stuff that came out, but it had been sitting for quite a while and it got a lot of junk out, got new oil to replace today

[gmwillys]

You may need to dump the oil after you run the transmission and transfer case a while. Then you should be able to use a suggested maintenance schedule as in the manual. I have had a chassis on jack stands, and run the engine in gear to leak check the entire drive line. Just be careful of spinning drive shafts and tires. Then drop the oil to see what you have as far as contaminants. Works well, but have a kit switch handy in case something doesn't feel right. This would also be a good time to check the brakes for leaks, and overall function. A whole lot easier to adjust brakes without the body attached, then after.

[pelago]

am thinking that a transmission going to need some seals................. damn, not the money but the time, and I HATE FREAKIN TRANSMISSIONS WITH ALL THOSE DAMN NEEDLE BEARINGS.. SSHXXT,FXXK,DAMX, HEXX AND I AM GONNA CALL IT A LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING TOAD. As i sit on the garage floor with all this crap layed out in front of me!!
just watched some videos of rebuilding transmissions for this thing, and it scares the crap outta me,,, this thing has to face this way, this indent has to go out, watch the needle beardings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,shheeesh

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE=pelago;5046]am thinking that a transmission going to need some seals................. damn, not the money but the time"

On the '48 we sent the transmission out to a local shop just because of all of those needle bearings and getting detent A into slot B and so on. Then, if it's not right, it is someone else's problem to get it right the second or third time if it needs it.

Sometimes a man has to know his limits, some guy said in a movie...

Just replace all the bearings while you're in there. One bad roller or ball makes it sound like a grinder.

[pelago]

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/transmission/overhaul-kits/minor-transmission-overhaul-kit-fits-46-71-jeep-willys-with-t-90-transmission
thats what i am thinking, think the seals dried out

[gmwillys]

Just in case you change your mind, here are some thorough instructions, both visual and written.

https://www.novak-adapt.com/files/5014/6662/8399/T90_Rebuild.pdf

It's not as tough of a job as you may think.

[pelago]

got it, will study it, and i have my friend mike two doors down who does this kind of thing, the repair kit looks kinda basic and was told that the gasket that connects the transfer case to transmission is part of kit but that blow up expanded photo scares crap outta me

[51 CJ3]

I had one from a ‘66 CJ5 apart and reassembled in an USAF dormitory parking lot many years ago. I don’t recall anything bad about the task. I currently have one from a CJ3A disassembled in my shop. I had some trouble getting the oil keeper(?) out. I am curious as to how hard it will be to put back but I am not expecting any problems anywhere else. If yours is new enough to have the T90C, I don’t think it has the part that was giving me grief. Also, if all you need is seals, then I don’t think you have to get that deep into it. Mine needs gears, bearings and more.

[gmwillys]

Depending on how the A1's transmission was used both during and after the vehicles tour of duty, the transmission may be alright. If the gear sets look like new, with teeth that are not worn, then a seal kit would be all that you need. With that being said, if there is corrosion/rust,wear, or sizable amounts of metal contamination, then you would be time and money ahead to go ahead and tackle the job while the body is off. Synchronizers are common ailments of these tranny's, also the second gear set is the other problem area. The symptom of a second gear set being worn is when you let off the throttle and coast in second gear, the tranny falls out of gear, into neutral. This is the most common issue with the T90. Otherwise, they are pretty much bullet proof. I have a stock T90 backing up the SBC 350, in my wagon, and it handled the torque just fine.

[pelago]

well, after talking to couple of transmission places, they all felt that rebuild in their shops quite do able. i supply the kit and they do the work, with some guarantees, but this down the road a bit. First step is to pull the transfer case, then pull the transmission (just what i wanted to do, damn thing is heavy) My young friend Mike gave me some tips about the bearings and seals and he thinks that just might be a seal, they dry out, and this thing sat for ??? many years???. time to go get dirty again....... tranny coming out today YUK

[pelago]

My friend Mike came over and we pulled the top off the T90, and did a visual inspection, no rust, no crap in the bottom of the tranny, all gears are sharp and crisp and it shifts well, heard some complaints from other guys that when they would go to 2nd gear it would drop out of gear and that was due to rounded off gears?? maybe so, maybe not, i am not qualified to say whether that is true or not. what i can say and am comfortable in saying it is, i feel this transmission has only one issue and that is dried seals from sitting out in the weather.
Consequently will be ordering the smaller rebuild set with seals and gaskets only. that way i can order other parts and pieces with the 40.00 difference in the two kits
But got to admit am kinda tired of 2 steps forward and 1 step backward, but wth this project is one bolt at at rime, not all at once. have to admit am quite pleased with the voltage regulator and the generator,,,, a battery at rest charged up is 12.6vdc, two in series is s little over 25vdc. Withe the simpson on the output of the two at the starter and the ground on ground, i see the voltage drop some when starter engaged, then motor starts and then voltage goes back to a little over 25vdc, then shortly after i see it go to 27.5-28 volts. happy with that, did not look forward to getting a new 24volt gen set

[pelago]

transfer case and transmission out, visual inspection and checking bearings and any free play, none, just front oil seal dried out
ordered this
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/transmission-gasket-set-with-oil-seal-fits-46-71-jeep-willys-with-t-90-transmission
darned transfer case heavy,,, next time i wont dump it in my lap.. things there that dont need to get whacked by 150 lb chunk of steel. also kinda confused on this, there is a vacuum fitting on the bell housing, but then there is the drain hole in the bottom, what good is the vacuum when there is the drain hole??

[51 CJ3]

Popping out of second can also be caused by worn poppets on the shift rails. The poppet balls in mine were badly worn (as bad as the gear in the picture I posted) and one of the springs was broken.

30 years ago I thought it was easy to remove and reinstall a transmission and transfer case by hand. This time I decided to buy a jack from Harbor Freight. It is a little awkward to use but it was well worth the money to me.

[LarrBeard]

A comment about seals and such. We replaced a lot of seals in the '48.

At one of the first shows we went to, someone told me "Hey, you're leaking something out of the left rear wheel". Of course I smelled and tasted it, it was differential lube. (The left side was a bit downhill, so everything tended to run that way).

I got a new set of seals and we pulled the wheel and axle and snatched out the old seal and replaced it. The old guy in the shop looked at the seal we had pulled and asked "Didn't you say you replaced these?" "Of course we did - I even have a picture of that side with the old seals out".

"Well, this is a Chicago Leather seal, and they went out of business a zillion years ago". Sure enough , the seal was a leather seal, not a rubber or neoprene type seal. Somehow, we got an old seal from the bottom of a bin - I guess it was a "NOS" seal.

Keep an eye out and make sure you're getting "New, New Stock" seals - original isn't better here.

[gmwillys]

With the body off, the tranny will come out easily from the top side. An engine hoist, or whatever you were using will work. Crib up the engine so you don't have to pull the crossmember. Loosen the mounts to the transmission on the cross member, then crib up under the engine oil pan to clear the transmission from the cross member. The harbor freight trans jack is a good investment. I bought one of the cheap ones from Northern Tool, twenty years ago and it still works just fine. The locking chain was junk, so it was replaced with a ratchet strap, but the hydraulic ram works without issue.

[pelago]

""
"Well, this is a Chicago Leather seal, and they went out of business a zillion years ago"" years ago my dad found a 1932 Graham paige in a barn in Wisconsin, it had a blown piston, ut was in remarkable shape, he had it brought home and we got started on it, took years to find pistons and longer to get rings, but the amazing thing was the head gasket and the oil pan gasket were leather....what i want to know is how did they mill those things so that they were perfectly flat, cant have different thickness?? or could you?? the head gasket did have a metal ring pressed into it around chamber but other than that it was just leather......... wish i had it now

[pelago]

With the body off, the tranny will come out easily from the top side. An engine hoist, or whatever you were using will work. Crib up the engine so you don't have to pull the crossmember. Loosen the mounts to the transmission on the cross member, then crib up under the engine oil pan to clear the transmission from the cross member. The harbor freight trans jack is a good investment. I bought one of the cheap ones from Northern Tool, twenty years ago and it still works just fine. The locking chain was junk, so it was replaced with a ratchet strap, but the hydraulic ram works without issue.

the thing is out and sitting on work bench waiting parts and pieces, remarkable how crisp and clean all the gears are, look pretty damn near new... not a drop of sludge in the gear box

[pelago]

2649

does anyone have a actual complete layout of the exhaust? I got the kaiser willy set with header pipe (it can only go one one way) long extension pipe and muffler?? Just dont think i have it right

[gmwillys]

That's a good deal on the shape of the innereds of the transmission. Some government surplus vehicles were extremely low mileage examples. The '52 Dodge M37 we had less than10,000 miles on the clock, when we purchased it. The truck had gone through a depot overhaul in the mid seventies, then cut loose to the Civil Defence program. A local fire department had the truck until retirement, as a brush truck.

As far as the exhaust on your A1, It runs down the driver's side. Much like the picture you have posted. The header pipe can only go one way. The long pipe goes along the driver's side frame rail, then cuts over at a 45 degree angle just after the rear end. The muffler sits at that angle the the tailpipe extension or fording pipe extension exits under the passenger side rear quarter panel. The Marines typically used the fording extension, while The army mainly used the short extension. I'll see if I can drum up some pictures or drawings to better serve your needs.

[pelago]

That's a good deal on the shape of the innereds of the transmission. Some government surplus vehicles were extremely low mileage examples. The '52 Dodge M37 we had less than10,000 miles on the clock, when we purchased it. The truck had gone through a depot overhaul in the mid seventies, then cut loose to the Civil Defence program. A local fire department had the truck until retirement, as a brush truck.

As far as the exhaust on your A1, It runs down the driver's side. Much like the picture you have posted. The header pipe can only go one way. The long pipe goes along the driver's side frame rail, then cuts over at a 45 degree angle just after the rear end. The muffler sits at that angle the the tailpipe extension or fording pipe extension exits under the passenger side rear quarter panel. The Marines typically used the fording extension, while The army mainly used the short extension. I'll see if I can drum up some pictures or drawings to better serve your needs.

REASON I ASKED IS the exh pipe right after header is awful close to the connection for clutch and brake where all the pivot points are less than couple of inches would think it woud get hot,,,2650

[gmwillys]

Close is alright. Pipe temperatures are not too bad, just don't repair a brake leak until the exhaust cools down.

Here is some links to some folks with the same type of questions.

http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=89648

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=9472

http://www.surplusjeep.com/M38A1/Images/Exhaust%20System%20-%20M38A1.jpg

[pelago]

Close is alright. Pipe temperatures are not too bad, just don't repair a brake leak until the exhaust cools down.

Here is some links to some folks with the same type of questions.

http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=89648

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=9472

http://www.surplusjeep.com/M38A1/Images/Exhaust%20System%20-%20M38A1.jpg

damn, worried about something did not need to worry about, just thought it was awful close

[LarrBeard]

Much better to worry about something that turns out to be no big deal than the other way around!

[pelago]

there is a shield that separates the master cylinder from the heat source of the exh manifold pipe, due to its age it is probably asbestos, and it only shields the master cyl from heat. a new one costs 50.00 us dollars, i have the old one, it is somewhat beat up but usable. would you all use the old one?? could be replaced at a later date easy enough onlly two bolts secure it.
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/new-master-cylinder-heat-shield-fits-52-71-cj-3b-5-m38-a1

[gmwillys]

The original shield will do just fine. If it does have asbestos then it will do a much better job of dispersing any heat away from the master cylinder. Somewhere in my stash, I have an old pair of asbestos welding gloves. They are the best gloves I have ever used. Most of the heeps I have dealt with, the heat shields were either missing, or rusted away.

[LarrBeard]

I'm hijacking a thread here, but this subject has come up so often I guess this is a good place to share it:

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2018/05/09/how-to-remove-stubborn-or-broken-bolts

Of course this doesn't work as easily as the video with 800 pound cast iron blocks and broken exhaust studs...

[pelago]

transmission seal....
been reading some unfortunate reports on the seal that kaiser provides for the front end of transmission, that is just fails> also was told that novak has a seal/bearing to replace the thing that is a upgrade. you guys know more of this than i do, and taking the transmission down i found that 1st/reverse gear has some damage. needs to replace, now this transmission bought separate from orignial motor so ii is quite possible that this has some damage unlike the motor....

[gmwillys]

The sealing surface has a lot to do with the input shaft condition. I typically buy my seals from a place,(National Bearing) that sells bearings and seals. They can match up a national seal to match just about everything, and is a whole lot cheaper than a parts house. I don't have one close by to me currently, but is a couple of hours away. Novak would be high up on my list of vendors. They have well made fabricated parts, and keep good seals in stock. The unit bearing/seal would be cheap insurance to prevent you from having to tear out the transmission again.

[pelago]

"" cheap insurance to prevent you from having to tear out the transmission again.""THAT IS MY THOUGHT since i will be leaving this to either daughter of son , (will let them figure that out) dont want to not have it as correct and right as i can make it. think am going with novak

[pelago]

i have one of Kaiser's exhaust hanger kits,,,, 3 hangers and 3 muffler clamps, just how are these put on?

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/new-exhaust-system-clamp-hanger-kit-universal-fits-46-71-cj-2a-3a-3b-5-m38-m38a1

and am starting to look at the steering. sheesh lots of little parts that really add up..... i have the long worm gear shaft, a new wheel, and the original gear box (actually have two of them) do you think they might have come up with a little easier horn mechanism??? mechanical switch at the bottom and a long rod that goes inside the tube, damn

[gmwillys]

The exhaust hangers that you have are a generic fit all type of hangers. They will work just fine, but will need to be tweaked to fit your needs. Here a couple of blurbs concerning exhaust fitments.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=9089

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2436&start=75&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

The horn button assembly can try your patience. This is why most all horns do not work, and have an external horn button installed. You'll be able to get it handled, and will be happy with your effort.

"" cheap insurance to prevent you from having to tear out the transmission again.""THAT IS MY THOUGHT since i will be leaving this to either daughter of son , (will let them figure that out) dont want to not have it as correct and right as i can make it. think am going with novak. You'll be happy with their quality. I have one daughter, and two heeps. I tell her that she can have one, and then the other will be for my Viking funeral. Just put my carcass behind the wheel, set it a blaze, and let it roll across the back forty.

[LarrBeard]

That's really nasty. Do you know how hard it's going to be for the next guy to clean that up and restore it again?
(Not much sympathy around here - go look in the dictionary)

[pelago]

That's really nasty. Do you know how hard it's going to be for the next guy to clean that up and restore it again?
(Not much sympathy around here - go look in the dictionary)

??? not sure what you mean

[gmwillys]

I don't believe LarrBeard appreciated the idea of me being creamated with one of my Willy's, in a Viking funeral. That's what he was referring to.

[pelago]

I don't believe LarrBeard appreciated the idea of me being creamated with one of my Willy's, in a Viking funeral. That's what he was referring to.

okay, when i go i will go off the stern of a aircraft carrier a LHD wanted the saipan but it is in mothballs

[pelago]

Just put my carcass behind the wheel, set it a blaze, and let it roll across the back forty. nah get a carolina skiff and put the jeep on it and do it right, flaming arrows and all

[gmwillys]

Agreed. Then the ex wife's, and former in-laws would show up.

[pelago]

Agreed. Then the ex wife's, and former in-laws would show up.

2 lbs c4 under seat

[gmwillys]

That would make for a crowd pleaser/grand finale.

[pelago]

and X and in laws go bye bye

[LarrBeard]

and X and in laws go bye bye

Us old guys poke fun at each other. It takes more time and effort to poke fun than it does to just ignore each other.

Carry on.

[gmwillys]

It is all in fun, although the c-4 idea has me thinking.

[pelago]

simple pressure release switch in the seat....................coom, and you might get launched into orbit

[gmwillys]

That would be a sight to see.

[pelago]

That would be a sight to see.

or put a button in the dash that says DO NOT TOUCH

[gmwillys]

A lesson in life about DO NOT TOUCH. We received a Stryker MGS back from service in Iraq. We went through all the paperwork that was signed by a full bird, and a few other lesser brass from the garrison stating that there were no live rounds on board, and no organic matter (fingers, toes, plants or animals) within the hull. We were off sight, so we didn't have our usual tooling on hand. We were checking the functions to see what was working and what wasn't. My favorite noise in the world is the manual fire trigger, or master blaster. It is essentially a magneto that sends a current to the breach to manually fire the weapon. If you've been around demolitions, then you have heard the sound of it winding up as you turn the handle. We also were taking inventory of the piece parts related to the cannon. Everything was where it was supposed to be, to include the firing pin in a bag on the side of the turret. We needed to check the breach, but didn't have the opening tool. Being the crafty folks we were, we fired up the firing computer to enable the single step procedure to work the loading mechanism. There is a carousel that fits between the gunner's seat and the commanders position. Within the carousel, it holds 8 105 MM rounds of anything from antipersonnel rounds to anti tank loads. The carousel is much like a revolver barrel that will spin around to the desired load is at the top. The loader reaches down from behind the breach to pluck the desired load up, and into the breach. While I was waiting for everything to come on line, I have a bad habit of turning the master blaster to listen to the noise that it makes. We had already ensured that the firing pin was out and secure, so all was right with the world. Everything was going to plan until the rammer was on it's return trip to the home position. When the rammer was coming back down the ramp, it had picked up something that looked a whole lot like our dummy rounds that we use to check for proper operation. One problem, our dummies were black where this one was green. Now that this round was secure within the carousel, we turned it to where we could see the tail of the round from the back of the vehicle. Sure enough, there was this large primer sitting there staring back at us. Now we do find .556/.50BMG, and other rounds from time to time, no big deal. We have a live round 5 gallon barrel that the EOD comes around and empties. A 105MM round will not fit in the barrel. We called our supervisor and he thought we were nuts. He went through the riot act of that vehicle was signed off by this and that, and there was no way there was a live round in there. After listening to the speech for a couple of minutes, he was convinced to drive over and prove that it wasn't a live round. Long story short, he and his boss, and the field service guy pulled in the shop. The field service guy took a peek, and confirmed what we had reported. We then had to wait until EOD could come by and removed the round.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1128_Mobile_Gun_System

[pelago]

6 ROUNDS A MINUTE. watched a 05 crew at khe sahh fire 20 rounds a minute, they were good, but they were not in a vehicle

[gmwillys]

That is good. The MGS had a live crew, much like an Abrams tank, and they could beat the automatic loader. The Army wanted to cut down on crew members per vehicle, so they opted for the automatic. The load count went down to 18 rounds total, to have room for all the auto equipment.

[pelago]

THURSDAY IS ORDER DAY.. new first and reverse gear, and some other things including the new bearing with sealer built in.. Interesting to not, i checked out myother transmission and it is doing the same thing and it has that little nothing seal in it also...... also had some water in it??? got that out and let it dry after blowing it out with air hose, then i litterally filled it int with the gear lube i had drained out of the other transmission.... then tilted it back to stop potential leaks. but two transmissions from different places both leaked, both had that crappy little seal................ you guys out there and are thinking of rebuilding the tranny, read and head dont shortchange yourself go with quality

[pelago]

sort of thinking ahead here. got this spare engine?? other than get it going, and that probably would not be all that difficult, but some expense involved. What would you all do for the criteria that says rebuild. compression? all four cylinders within 10% of each other and between 105 and 135lbs?? add oil pressure to the mix ( but that means running??. or just jump in with both feet and start tearing it down?? tearing down not that big a deal, then block and head dipped,??? comments. Now the last engine i rebuilt was a 30hp Kubota,(great motor) and i literally had book in one hand and wrench in other. when i sold the boat the compression was the same as when i launched the rebuild, can not say enough about that kubota engine

[gmwillys]

If you have compression that is that good, leave it alone. With that being said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put a minor kit in, fresh bearings, rings, seals, and gaskets. Check the head over, and add hardened seats for running unleaded fuel.

Kubotas are a descent little engine. They will run for hours and hours without problem.

[pelago]

it is a great little motor here it is after rebuild running on a homemade platform on sawhorses26702671

[gmwillys]

There is an outfit that makes conversion kits for putting a Kubota plant in a Willys.

https://www.overlanddiesel.com/conversion_kits.html

[51 CJ3]

There are some good discussions and articles on diesel conversions elsewhere on the internet. I want a diesel in my CJ3A but it isn't cheap.

[gmwillys]

You may be able to find a take out engine from a trucking company that runs refrigerated trailers. The refer units are run by mainly Kubota engines. With the environmental laws changing, these companies are changing over to tier 4 emission rated engines. The old engines may have hours on them, but are usually well maintained. If you have the room, and can have it moved, you may be able to get the whole trailer cheap.

[51 CJ3]

Even with a used refer engine it appears to be a several thousand dollar mod. Each major component 3(?) will cost more than $1000 each. Could maybe do without a turbo. To me it looks like engines are being snatched up for equipment so there is competition driving the cost up.

Good idea on the whole trailer. Might be cheaper than buying just the engine. I have room and could use the extra storage.

[pelago]

i dont think that there is a easier engine to rebuild than the kubota they produced a manual that is impossible to make a mistake, detailed photos of each and every step and a great parts manual to go with it. engine even has replaceable mains2672

[gmwillys]

The kubotas are pretty straight forward, and bullet proof. All the units that we had, I can only think of one engine that had a failed head gasket. The engine was working well, but was leaking coolant out the side. A couple of hours, and good as new.

[pelago]

GOT TO SAYT THIS, THERE IS ONE DAMN THING THAT IS SURE LIKE ABOUT THESE OLD JEEPS,,,,,,,, Dont need any damn metric, nothing worse than crawling under something and finding out that what looked like a 9/16 was in fact 14mm I HATE THAT

[51 CJ3]

My distributor was in pretty bad shape so I opted to replace the whole thing with the electronic ignition replacement. It has the only metric hardware on the entire jeep :mad:

[gmwillys]

Then to complicate things, in Europe, there is a couple of different metric sets. A ten MM Imperial is different then a 10 MM Standard. On our Strykers, everything on the the vehicle is metric, except the CAT engine.

[pelago]

got a question on timing, the oil pump and the distributor lined up as it should with shallow side down and on right angle parallel to deck and the dist lined up with #1 however with timing light can not get it to adj to 5 degrees??? it will go to timing mark but manual says to go to 5 degrees?? move the gears in oil pump a little??

[gmwillys]

You are correct. Turn the oil pump enough to gain another tooth with the distributor. Then you'll have your 5 degrees.

[pelago]

You are correct. Turn the oil pump enough to gain another tooth with the distributor. Then you'll have your 5 degrees.


cool, will do, and just for a note, i found out that you must pack the oile pump with grease or you will not have immediate oil pressure.......... one more stupid question, looking down the hole from the distributor side clockwise on the pump or ccw

[gmwillys]

CCW, that is what comes first to mind. Not a stupid question. A liberal amount of grease does help to prime the pump. I like to take an old distributor, and remove the cam gear. Install the distributor, then take a drill and turn the distributor at the top. The whole system gets oil pumped throughout, without turning over the engine. A good way to get the oil up to the intake valves, so they are lubed prior to start up.

[pelago]

90 wt gear lube.. was told to use GL 4 all i can find is GL 5, but manual says GO. WTH???

[LarrBeard]

90 wt gear lube.. was told to use GL 4 all i can find is GL 5, but manual says GO. WTH???

There is a lot of discussion of GL4 vs GL5 in transmissions and gear boxes, but the small amount used to prime an oil pump and the short time it will be there - won't make a real difference. Load 'er up and go.

[gmwillys]

The way I read the forums, you want to use the GL 4 in your transmission and transfer case. If you use the GL 5, the copper and brass will be slowly eaten away. Which will be evident when you change oil. There will be a lot more sparkle material found in the used oil.

[pelago]

2739


worn gears,,, after dismantle inspected gears and saw 1st and reverse maybe 20% worn. said wth ordered new first and reverse 200.00... but damn it if gonna do it right do it all the way. got the old bearing off and will take the shaft and get the new oil seal/bearing pressed on okay gl4 versus gl5. okay i get it higher number inverse proportional to itsllf but the damn manual also says use GO oil 90 wt what i the hell is that

[gmwillys]

I've always used 90w, or 85w90. I use synthetics on my new vehicles, but stick with crude derivatives in my experienced fleet.

[pelago]

1 gallon of gl94 36.00 but a quart of other is gl5 is 4 and change??? wtf.... anyway got it

[LarrBeard]

To just prime the oil pump, GL5 will do, but GL4 for the gear boxes with bronze synchronizer and copper bearing parts....

[pelago]

2740


old original bearing, and the new novak sealed bearing,, after research and looking it is pretty easy to see why that original seal would let go, not much there to stop it, the old bearing had oil pouring thru it and it had to go somewhere besides back into the transmission case. in fact the instructions are to seal off that hole for the oil and not use the supplied seal, no way to lubricate it and it could/would burn up

[pelago]

worn gears and the replacement gears for 1st and reverse, now some of you might not have felt that this needed to be replaced, but i would have known that the gears in that box had quite a bit of wear, and that wold have bugged me forever, so new gears, and with new seal and new gaskets and new roller bearings it is actually new again. guess this comes from the days of repairing radios for USMC, was not going to deliver a piece of comm gear that was not 100% ready to go to combat
]27422743



also interesting to note that the replacement sealed bearings came with two rubbler plugs, one is straight forward and closes up the oil passage on front of transmission and the other fills in the hole on main gear (HOWEVER MINE DID NOT HAVE THAT HOLE) so i will fill in the main hole in the front with provided plug, but that brings upanother issue and that is the felt seal, will not be putting that in for two reasons one it will not get lube and will probably burn up and since spend 80.00 for a sealed bearing dont need it

[gmwillys]

I agree with you 100%. When in doubt, change it out. That is a motto that we adhere to when working on the power packs for the combat vehicles that we refurbish. Hoses, seals, and parts are cheap compared to a soldier's life. These vehicles go through hell on a regular basis, so we strive to make sure they will keep moving under fire. You will be money and time ahead, when you take care of the details now.

[pelago]

Its out there, but gotta look for it, four box stores then last on list was a napa store 12 miles away, but they had it

2747


ONE MORE NOTE.... The new bearing/seal came with two plugs for sealing off oil passage to bearing/and seal. one of the plugs to go in this hole, but my model does not have this hole, so not going to worry about it

2748

[gmwillys]

From what I have read on the Novak kit, you are correct. Some later shafts had the hole, where the earlier ones did not. With your sealed bearings, it is not an issue.

Napa tends to have everything one would need on these experienced vehicles. Plus they tend to have counter folks that have been around, and know what you are talking about. We didn't have a Napa around these parts for quite some time, but now that we do, I'll drive the 20 miles to go there first.

[pelago]

question.... rapidly getting to decision time. frame, engine, brakes, done, steering yet to complete, all i have i a new shaft and two gear boxes that may or may not have usable parts in them. the worm gear itself pretty straightforward, but the shaft with all the seals and bushings and what not including the horn looks like it might be a tad bit complicated, more than a couple of hours work. however when steering done only left is body and wiring and some ancillary parts lights, black out on fender light, and what not. BUT BODY IS GONNA BE A PAIN IN THE HOOTUS. TON OF WORK THERE. let steering go for a while or not?

[LarrBeard]

You're in mechanic mode now - finish the steering. Then start your sheet metal work.

[gmwillys]

The nice aspect of a M38A1, you can install the steering column either before or after the body is installed. I agree with LarrBeard, I would go ahead and finish the mechanicals, then venture into the body. The floor transmission tunnel cover is large enough to allow the body to be installed with the column and steering wheel in place.

[pelago]

You're in mechanic mode now - finish the steering. Then start your sheet metal work.

COOL It is so much easier to let someone else decide,,,, steering it is

[pelago]

okay, anyone here know how to add the throwout bearing device to the transmission when it is mounted to the bell housing. what is the magic to adding the fork to the damn thing. dont want to remove bell housing but just might have to, thought it could be done thru inspection port but just does not seem to want to work or my hands just dont know how to do it

[gmwillys]

If you push the fork to engage the clutch, the carrier will slide over the fork. The return spring then hooks to the carrier to the transmission. I'm not sure I'm tracking on to why you are trying to pull the bearing through the inspection cover. The bell housing does not need to come off.

[pelago]

not talking about the bearing but the paddle that moves the bearing forward https://www.kaiserwillys.com/clutch-release-fork-for-rod-operated-lever-fits-46-53-truck-station-wagon-jeepster can not get my hand, the shaft and the paddle all in the same hole,,,, not problem with throwout bell carrier and throwout bearing

[gmwillys]

Once you remove the throw out bearing carrier spring, then unhook the clutch cable. After that, the clutch fork will come out with the carrier. The fork rest on the pivot point.


Your fork should be this style.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/clutch/forks/clutch-release-fork-for-cable-operated-lever-fits-41-71-mb-gpw-cj-2a-3a-3b-5-m38-m38a1

[pelago]

getting it out is not the issue it is getting it back in............... everything else is already there, but can not get it back in and that is the one i have................all from inspection port,,, only access

[gmwillys]

There are parts of the story that are missing. I have to assume that the transmission is hung onto the engine. I have to assume that the fork wasn't in place when the transmission was installed on the engine? You will play hell trying to slip the fork in place when the carrier can not slide forward enough to get the fork onto the carrier. Then, if the clutch cable is threaded, instead of the cable with the ball, that will complicate things a bit more. A CJ and M series clutch cable has a ball on the end that slips into the end of the fork, then travels through the rear of the bell housing. The other end has threads for clutch free play adjustment.

In short, it appears that you will need to unbolt the transmission from the engine, and slide it back enough to gain the room to allow the carrier to slide forward enough to slip the fork into place. The inspection port is best used to adjust the pressure plate air gap for proper clutch operation. If I'm still incorrect in my assumptions, send a picture of what exactly you are dealing with.

Thank you Sir.

[gmwillys]

Read through this, and included are some photos.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7847

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=226876

[pelago]

yes the transmission is hanging on engine bell housing, no the fork not put on prior to this, could not get transmission with fork on it to fit. the carrier is quite free and moves back and forth easily. and return spring mounted on carrier
may have solved the problem and the problem was my stubby hands, small port and moving carrier forward at same time sliding fork in. to me it would be like juggling three tennis balls, playing hopscotch, scratching top of head at same time.. all thru inspection port...

might have solved it though...

took some peripheral stuff off of transmission, bottem rubber snubber mount, and taking the entire bolt assembly for the cable out of bell housing. inserted transmission deep enough to have it hold and was able to turn transmission cw until the carrier is 90% out of norm, then was able to slide fork in and get under carrier and onto pivot. rotated transmission back to normal. replaced cable mount and put cable end thru fork, then tied cable off to keep some tension on it..
so far seems to have worked. then that damn heavy transfer case, think i will use the hoist or get another rupture, had two dont need another on top

[gmwillys]

I see the whole picture now. I learned that it can be done through the inspection port, if need be.

Use the hoist. I would be lost without mine.

[pelago]

it is in1 thru inspection port but I TURNED THE TRANSMISSION 90 DEGREES CLOCKWISE THAT MADE PUTTING THE FORK IN AT A STRAIGHT RUN, once in connected cable and kept some tension on cable at the transmission, have to reconnect all the brake and clutch crap again

[pelago]

well, all the parts and pieces in, xfer case mounted. checked all bolts for tight. started it up. ran for a hour and no puddles on the concrete....no gear lube visible inside inspection port at all, all nice and white. now to wait and see in couple of hours any thing under it

three hours later.. had one small drip like old 3penny about size of cue tip. but that might have been residual making its way out, i did not clean the block nor the bell housing, but prior to this would have seen a 1/4 saucer full of 90wt. no oil either, i replaced one of the hoses to the oil filter it was defective and leaked, it and the other hose to filter are dry. But damn if i dont have a spot under the master cylinder, one of the output lines leaks. i think i will have to break down and get some crush washers for the brake lines. but all in all am happy, and damn if i dont lie to go out and just start her up and listen. IT IS WHAT IT IS.................

[gmwillys]

Good deal. Glad everything went together we'll, and is performing to your satisfaction.

[pelago]

new question, gear box, have two of them, and believe can rescue enough pieces and parts to rebuild one for steering.
what weight lube in the box, both of the ones i have it seem filled with grease and what a mess, grease all over but not on what needed lube and how do you determine the shimns?? one had one the other two??

[gmwillys]

Take note of which steering box takes which number of shims. That will help to set the preload on the sector input. If the play seems proper, then don't change the amount of shims. Check the adjustment of the sector adjustment screw for proper adjustment as well. This will give you an idea of the condition of the gear box before teardown. The grease was put into the box(s) because the seals went out, and leaked gear lube out. Grease works OK, but does become a mess, and becomes stiff as it dries up. Gear lube is the best, because it gets into all the working parts of the gearbox. A new set of seals will keep the gear lube in where it should be.

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=195761

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsILb3-O4AY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0aNkZhlDxc

[pelago]

wow, but he never said the number to order the lube, he just said he used thinner, but thinner what? the forums got a bit confusing all the people that said put grease then 90wt??
i did get the permetex anerobic gasket maker 51813, never heard of it, but have now

[LarrBeard]

Yep, 90W140/GL4 gear lube - the same as elsewhere.

The bolts that hold the cover on the steering gear box are backed up by copper crush washers that deform into the hole to act as a gasket around the bolt stem. It took two tries to get it right on the '48, but in three summers there is just a sheen of oil around the seam of the box and cover. With good seals and a good shaft, gear oil will stay in there.

Here is a note from one of the many posts about this subject:

"Note that the upper ball bearings are just at the upper lube level and in order to get the lube to flow to the upper level it should be GO (gear oil)".

[pelago]

JUST DONT GET IT!!
I put 90W140/GL4 gear lube in search engine and get everything but what i want, did get a purex product description but not where to buy it or even how much it costs
damn

apparently Kaiser does not sell a gasket for this critter and they (Kaiser) said had to make a new paper gasket. what about thickness I have some gasket material but it is kinda thick and since this has a adjustment for the arm, just might think that mine might be a bit thick. what say you?

[gmwillys]

Pelago,

At one time were you looking for the outside steering shaft tube? If so, I found a new one for $20. when I was looking up the gaskets.

The three bolt cover where the sector shaft tensioner is located, (stud with the allen screw end, and jam nut) doesn't matter how thick the gasket material is, because the adjuster takes up any adjustment needed. The anaerobic sealant is good stuff. Caterpillar uses if on their front covers on most all their bigger diesel engines, with no gasket at all. Not too many issues of leaks, unless the bolts are removed, and the seal between the two surfaces are broken.

https://quartertonparts.com/product-category/steering/

https://quartertonparts.com/product/m38a1-m170-us-made-ross-steering-box-cover-gasket-8329725/

The GL4 Sta-Lube that you purchased at Napa will do just fine. In the Forum, they were referring to greasing the sector when assembling the gearbox. A film of grease will not bother anything, then top the steering box off with the gear lube. Thinner oil would be for those folks that want to be able to steer their Heeps in below freezing weather.

[pelago]

hey, thanks, they got a gasket also. cool

[LarrBeard]

AS a cherry on top of the cake, I used a Tite-Steer to replace the sector shaft tensioner on the '48. That gearbox worm and sector had always been just a little looser that I wanted it to be. It drives better than it ever has in my 53 years of being around it.

http://www.siminoffjeeparts.com/siminoff-jeeparts-faqs

Get it going and see if you think it needs one.

[gmwillys]

I often wondered how well the tight steer worked. The pin is spring loaded, to keep tension on the sector, if I read it correctly. Seems like a good product, and a better idea. If not, then every other oil change, adjust the tensioner as needed. Tire choice will have a lot to do with the wandering of the steering as well. Bias plies are notorious for following every groove in the road, with the exception of non directional mil spec tires. They do alright until it rains, then it's hard to start, and harder to stop. Radials make a world of difference in improving steering performance.

[pelago]

not sure how to respond. My original plan was to NOT do road trips, have certain amount of driving allowed on insurance (great price, full coverage comp and liability) but orignal plan was parades locally and trips to dairy queen with my labrador retriever. maybe trip to beach all of them really close by. But radials kinda take away from the military look?? or not

[pelago]

PULLLED A GAGLE OF SHIMS. which makes me wonder were shims put in during manufacture? a later date? i intend (right or wrong???) to put in same number of shims that i took out. did order a new pack of them though...

i watched the video at least five times, rebuild the box, no where or when did it tell you how to determine number of shims? and then the sector shaft, isnt there a alignment? he just dropped it in, scares me a bit. just drop it in??

[gmwillys]

To keep with your originality, stay with the non directional military tread. You won't be out in the rain/snow/ice, and you'll have no benefit to worrying about tire wear/loose steering. If I were you, I would spend my money elsewhere then invest in the tight steer gismo. I don't have one, but keep the steering sector adjusted every other oil change, and have no issues. I do have a set of bias plies on the front axle, but when they warm up, they track alright.

As far as shims go, I would assume that being an M38A1, there was not a great deal of miles put on during it's service life for Uncle Sam. Often times the vehicle before leaving the service, will go through an overhaul program at one of the depots. There all the components are broken down and inspected for wear, then rebuilt. We had an '52 M37 Dodge that had 9,000 miles on the clock, and had been overhauled in '76 at the depot in Colorado. Long story short, I would use the same thickness of shims to put your steering shaft mount back together. The shims are there to set the preload on the steering shaft input. There is no set amount of shims to start with. The end point will be that there is no play up and down on the steering shaft. The video here has a good explanation on the steering box rebuild. He goes over the process thoroughly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0aNkZhlDxc

The steering sector shaft is keyed to align the bell crank in the proper location. When you drop the sector shaft into the box, over the steering shaft worm gear, ensure that the sector is centered. This step doesn't mean much, except if the steering wheel is installed on the shaft. It is my preference that when the wheels are straight, then the spoke of the steering wheel should be straight up and centered.

[pelago]

well, i see i screwed up, did not mark the pitman arm but will have to make sure all are centered two tires and then pitman arm. cool video

[gmwillys]

The sector shaft is keyed, so it shouldn't go on any other way.... Just remember the ball joint on the pitman arm goes away from the steering box. The splines on the arm are tapered, so it is near impossible to install backwards, but have watched people try.

The guy who puts those videos together, has a whole series of Jeep fabrication videos. He fabricates a lot of his own body panels, and is really good at it. Very worth while to watch. His handle is metal shaper on you tube.

[pelago]

" sector shaft is keyed" Whooa where, holding it in my hand and there is no key? got a groove in top that if centered is vertical? but got so many different pieces ihis thing that going to have to line things up for full left turn on wheel and full right turn on wheel..
and am trying to figure out this thing https://www.kaiserwillys.com/new-horn-switch-adapter-fits-50-66-m38-m38a1 and do i need it,,, got a purely mechanical switch for horn?? so where in the heck does this go?? my steering shaft had nothing inside it nor were there any wires to make a shortcut for horn, but i thought i would put the original mechanical layout on it?

[gmwillys]

There is not a woodruff key, but the sector shaft should have a solid portion within the splines to match with the drag link. The groove should line up with the drag link in the center, wheels straight position. Regardless of where the drag link is located currently, it should line up when the column is installed. I should have been more clear.

The horn adapter just gives a path for the wire through, and out of the steering box. The wire runs up the steering shaft to the horn button in the steering wheel.

[pelago]

The horn adapter just gives a path for the wire through, and out of the steering box. The wire runs up the steering shaft to the horn button in the steering wheel. ??
was referring to the mechanical horn system long steel rod connects to switch at bottom all way thru steering shaft

[gmwillys]

You are correct. The earlier CJs had a wire, and not a mechanical rod. I should have looked to ensure that I was correct before clouding up the water.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8298

Same could be said about the pitman arm installation. It is best to mark the sector shaft and the pitman arm to ensure that everything lines up perfect.

I'll have my crow now.

[pelago]

well i have two of them and one thing in common is that both of them have a groove cut in the top on both of them and suppose that lines up when putting back together, cut into the top of the arm and the base where it inserts and when lined up the arm is in the middle.
also to note, i do have two and they had one thing in common, both packed with grease, and the narrative said DO NOT USE GREASE and yes the grease was just sort of pushed out of the way. he said 140wt go,,,, man thats tough. and then said contact him, well tried to get thru the google stuff and failed, cant contact him, he said he had it

[LarrBeard]

Crow, properly served and eaten, is a nourishing meal for one's character. I know this for a fact because I've had to eat it a number of times.

Gulp.....

[gmwillys]

I've learned to like crow, having to dine on it often as well.

You can use the Sta-Lube 140W gear lube from NAPA, they show a gallon, but may have a quart or liter.

[pelago]

one curiosity is that there is only one seal,,, would think that thee would be more, sure no pump just rotating the steering wheel and thick lube but still only one seal?

[gmwillys]

Two seals. A sector shaft seal, and the input worm shaft seal, p/n 808414. It fits under the triangular cap. True, the likely hood of the thick lube of leaking out the top seal is small.

[pelago]

when taking apart the bad shaft i felt it was pretty rusted, probably due to the fact it live in rain for years but wonder if maybe some paint on the parts that are not in contact with bearings?? and sure glad i retained the snap rings, they do not seem to be part of new bearings??

[LarrBeard]

A. I'd paint the shaft. If it stands still, paint it - an old Navy doctrine. Paint never hurt anything but a fiberglass radome cover. (Once upon a time this bosun's mate .... ). As you can maybe tell, I didn't paint my steering shaft - but it's in a cab and won't be exposed to weather.

On the '48 truck, all of the shifter stuff at the bottom was gone - so even that column assembly from the Jeep guy in Toledo was an improvement.

B. Bearing sets include a race/cup and a set of little steel balls. Put some grease in the race to keep those lil' suckers from escaping while you're working with them. They roll really fast!

[pelago]

got some assembly lube..................... it will dissolve in GO

[pelago]

damn, seem to have a leak in the xfer case to the rear driveshaft, first impression is it is a seal right at the output side to the rear driveshaft. does not look like earth shattering fix

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/diagram/m38a1-diagrams/transfercase-diagrams-willys-m38a1/dana-18-transfercase/dana-18-transfer-case

guess i need #2 and #45
comments?? after laying on the deck and staring at the damn thing with a light leaks from seal out??
again only wanting to do this once, am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wanting to get hot on the body (hmm someone with a dirty mind could get the wrong meaning here)

[gmwillys]

That will be an easy fix. Just look at the yoke's sealing surface for any grooves worn into the sealing surface. If no grooves or pits are seen, put you a new seal in, and you'll be good to go. Make sure that none of the gear lube got on the parking brake shoes. If it did, clean well with brake cleaner. If it was the service brakes, then they would have to be replaced, because you can never fully get the lube out of the shoe linings.

You'll get to the body soon enough. Once you do, and get the hang of rust repair, it will all come together fairly quickly. You will be painting by fall.

[pelago]

SINCE the gear box has brass bushings inside the correct oil needed, 140wt but where, damn stuff

[LarrBeard]

Here is straight 140 weight gear oil. It is GL4, which I believe is the stuff that goes easy on brass and bronze.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/chemicals---fluids-16461/grease---lube-16582/gear-oil---additives-16905/gear-oil---140w-20063/754ba5cbea99

Now, I have been following the GL4 vs. GL5 oil discussion on this and several other forums and I wonder to myself if we are overthinking this. I see a number of pictures with worn brass and bronze transmission pieces, but these tend to be pieces out of small, high speed gear boxes. Old Jeep boxes are neither of those.

I know we fuss over our Jeeps and want to pamper them in their second or third lives, but is GL4 vs. GL5 really that big a deal?

[pelago]

since high speed movement is not going to happen in the gear box, nor will there probably not be any heat except from ambient heat off engine and exhaust you are probably correct. this thing will probably sit 99.9% of the time. you are most likely correct. a transmission it aint

[pelago]

might there be a video of assembly of the steering box, exterior tube, and mechanical horn button (long one that goes thru the steering shaft). got all kinds of parts and pieces and want to confirm what i have. unfortunately did not have a complete steering assembly to dis assemble to make notes, all i had were pieces and parts. and once bearings and snap rings in dont want to upset apple cart2801

this drawing does not lend itself to be enlarged, and dumb as it sounds want to make sure seals are facing in right direction

[gmwillys]

Check with the G503 websight. There should be a link to a video, and the information you need.

[pelago]

no luck. damn i just feel like i am missing something and dont understand what i have. the long shaft that connects the mechanical switch to the top button. IAW photo from willys i seem to be missing a ??? round?? "thing" part of picture and was supposed to get it but all i got was the shaft? (nopun intended). and the actual push button on top, damn got no idea how that goes together, it does not go together like the picture??. all i know for sure is the bearings, and the seal

[gmwillys]

Surplus city Jeep parts has the round disk that goes on the end of the horn shaft. After that, then there is the horn button itself.

[pelago]

will have to take a photo of what i have, have tried multiple configurations all in order to make the long shaft move to activate the switch for the horn?? here is another uh oh
in the tm manual (IN THE CORPS WE HAD ECHELONS OF MAINTENANCE DEPOT REBUILD AT ALBANY GA AND BAKERSFIELD CA) the highest of course was depot. but the wrench turners in the field had a better manual than the operator manual, yeah this one is pretty good, and has a lot of information, but the higher one is better, but that is another 40 bucks. anywayt back to the photo and kaiser photo and description. on the shaft there are two seals, but kaiser does not identify two seals, one at the horn/wheel end and one at thed box end?? and there is a disparage on the shims, the real manual says there is a gasket along with the shims, but when i took two of them apart no gasket?? but manual says there is one and there is no gasket in the shim kit. but am making progress have the two bearings installed on the shaft itself and have put in and removed the shaft from box all fits well. now the manual says the shims are to eliminate up and down play when i disassembled both boxes they both all had multiple shims? when i first put the shaft into the box it had no up and down play with no shims?? put shims in and still no play.... but that damn horn button>>>>>....... when honking horn button has to push rod into the bottom switch to activate it. but the three pieces are being a royal pain in the ***2802

2803 both photos enclosed and one from kaiser and one from manual

[pelago]

That will be an easy fix. Just look at the yoke's sealing surface for any grooves worn into the sealing surface. If no grooves or pits are seen, put you a new seal in, and you'll be good to go. Make sure that none of the gear lube got on the parking brake shoes. If it did, clean well with brake cleaner. If it was the service brakes, then they would have to be replaced, because you can never fully get the lube out of the shoe linings.

You'll get to the body soon enough. Once you do, and get the hang of rust repair, it will all come together fairly quickly. You will be painting by fall.

28042805

are we talking about item Nr 1 in larger photo?

[pelago]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............. ...........

[pelago]

putting it down for a while before i get mad at it and hurt it

[51 CJ3]

Number one would be the culprit if it is grooved where the seal rides. Had to order a couple of yokes for mine. I read somewhere there is a ready sleeve (or redi-sleeve?) kit available to do a repair if desired but I don’t have specific info for that.

[gmwillys]

Speedy sleeve, is what we always called it. On heavy dirt equipment, a lot of the crank shaft front seals would get grooved up with dirt intrusion. The speedy sleeves work well. The sleeve bonds to the crank surface, and the seal rides on the sleeve.

[pelago]

Gear box almost assembled...
Have the center rod that trips the switch, then the cap/race then the spring then the piece the screws into the rod, then the cap...
Aint no way that i can figure out how to get that cap on top of the tubing??? Not unless i destroy it.. Darned camera somehow does not want to send photos to my email so i can save em and post here

found out why the top bearing will not go in and catch, it is our of round and not sure if i want to try and repair?? called mike they are sending another under warranty. good place

[pelago]

2807

this is rather interesting, wonder why one end assembled different from other end

[gmwillys]

That is a good question. I've never noticed a difference in the parts when removing them. I don't think I've ever seen two item 'C' on one end. Ponderous.

[pelago]

happen to have two of them only taken one apart. pretty ucky, however it was like the diagram. so guess it is correct,. but, seems to stupid old me just more parts to have to stock somewhere where same parts on either end would work fine(but maybe they dont work fine and someone found that out) so, i re assembled it according to diagram and will put on soon. The rebuild kit i got is complete with all new pieces and parts, with exception of grease fittings

[gmwillys]

Grease zerks are easy to come by. Napa should have all that you need.

I can say I learned something today, about the drag link.

[pelago]

being your basic money scrooge i too the ones off soaked them in carb cleaner and worked the little ball and they cleaned up and are ready for another 60yrs but got some when i was re assembling the suspension old one really bad and used napa, have read all the manuals on the jeep and can find nothing about "servicing the air cleaner" i forgot how to do it, other than cleaning it how much oil goes in it? went on internet and did not find squat...
and if i remember the cleaning part was shall we say messy

[LarrBeard]

It just so happens that I am in the middle of an air cleaner project. I've got some money, about half a day, two or three wire wheels and about 2 square inches of skin invested in the project to date.

On the oil cup, there should be a stamped line that says OIL LEVEL. The cup takes whatever oil you use in the engine - even used engine oil is OK since all that oil does is trap dirt, stray rain water and crud. The little sump gets NASTY!

Basic cleaning is dumping the oil and dirt out of the cup, wipe it out with a rag, add oil and put it back together. The filter mesh does not come out of most cleaners. Once or twice in a lifetime, the whole cleaner needs to be washed. Yep, it's a mess. I like a two-gallon (or whatever) bucket and a gallon of K-2 kerosene. (Diesel stinks too much!).

A gallon of kerosene in the bucket, sit the filter in it, swish it around, pour some kerosene through it to get the dust and residual oil out of the filter mesh and you're good for a whole lot of around town hours.

[pelago]

Got to go away again seems like cellulitis has returned with a vengeance attacking bone at us hosp navy hosp camp lejeune nc

[LarrBeard]

Got to go away again seems like cellulitis has returned with a vengeance attacking bone at us hosp navy hosp camp lejeune nc

That is nasty stuff. You're at the right place to get it cared for. Get it done right and then you can get back on the M38.

[gmwillys]

Get well soon, my friend. We are all pulling for a speedy recovery.

[LarrBeard]

Does anyone have Ira's amateur call sign? I can use that to chase down his address and send the old coot a card....

[gmwillys]

Sorry Sir. I know he is not far from Camp Lejeune, but have never asked a hard location.

If you do find out, send me a private message, and I'll send one as well.

[LarrBeard]

Sorry Sir. I know he is not far from Camp Lejeune, but have never asked a hard location.

If you do find out, send me a private message, and I'll send one as well.

I was Senior Chief, don't call me "sir". :)

He PMed me once with his call sign, but it's long gone by now.

[gmwillys]

I stand corrected Senior Chief. Again, if you run across any Intel, I would appreciate it.

[pelago]

AM BACK, NOT A FUN FOUR DAYS, TWO SURGERIES, FINAL OUTCOME STILL UP IN AIR, SERIOUS INFECTION THAT TURNED SEPTIC..... BUT GOT RELEASED AND SENT HOME WITH A iv SET UP IN ARM HOME HEALTH CARE FOR THREE WEEKS WITH SUPER ANTIBIOTICS DAILY... THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR CONCERN, THIS IS A PRETTY GOOD BUNCH EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE SQUIDS HERE.........................

[gmwillys]

Glad to hear from you. Keep us advised of how you are progressing, and if the is anything that you need.

[LarrBeard]

Welcome back you grumpy old coot. We worried about you.

What is your call sign?

de WB9UFS

[pelago]

bad news. have to get home health care and they will charge me $100.00 a day for 21 days,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, can not afford that, so looks like will be going back to navy hosp at camplejeune........
Ira Jones
3rd floor ward
usn regional medical center
camp lejeune nc 20540 (?) not sure of last two numbers
910 581 0148 and will have cell phone, am taking the willys catalog to see what numbers i need for parts for body
shXt...... not what i want to do at all want to finish the steering and that stuff
ANCHORS AWAEIGH to my navyt (squid ) friends
semper fi to marines
uha to army guys
coasties dont knw what they use
anyway you are a great bunch of guys and am proud to have you all as friends
Ira R Jones Jr (Rick)

[gmwillys]

We are proud to have you as one of our own. We are all pulling for you to get well soon!

When you get out and feeling better, we may all need to gather together for a weekend of Jeep building? Just a thought.

Good night Chesty, wherever you are.

[pelago]

at home again, two days of intensive antibiotic 24hrs a day continuous vancomycin (sp) which is supposed to be the strongest there is, and after that, they did not want to give any more that way because if kidney issues, it can screw themn up...dont need that.................. anyway at home with health care nurse for morphene and a milder antibiotic daily for a while. so me and my IV pole worked on jeep steering (after she left) different approach with a load of morphine, it almost got a hammer.....

here is the rub, how in the hell do you get the top race bearing in the tube. i just gorped up a 9.00 bearing trying to get it in the shaft by going thru bottom and hoping it would slide inside to where it has to sit. last damn pieces shaft, inside oil seal, top race, long pin for horn (long thin rod that goes inside everything to activate switch at bottom (engineers really needed to look at that twice). that damn top race bearing full off little bearings and how in the hXll does it go together

[LarrBeard]

Ira;

It's good to have you back. Things are too quiet with you in sick bay.

Don't overdo it - let the good stuff do its work. Modern versions of Vancomycin are not too hard on the kidneys and strangely enough the original less pure versions could cause hearing problems ...HUH? Current practice is to limit the dosage to keep the little critters in your system from developing their own immunity to it.

When you get your morphine, does your home health care nurse write a big M and the time on your forehead with a grease pencil like corpsmen used to do?

Good luck figuring out how to get those little bearings down the tube...

[pelago]

welcome back you grumpy old coot. We worried about you.

What is your call sign?

De wb9ufs

wb6lnh got that call in long beach many years ago, was wb9vdq

[pelago]

does your home health care nurse write a big M and the time on your forehead with a grease pencil

AS CUTE AS SHE IS SHE COULD WRITE ANYTHING ANYWHERE

[gmwillys]

That's the spirit, don't let them get you down. You need one of those beer helmets to attach your juice bag to, so you don't have to drag around the pole. Just a thought.

Look through the videos put out by metal shaper on you tube. I'm confident he covered the assembly of the steering column on a CJ 3. The only difference would be the horn would be a wire, instead of the shaft. When I get back home, I'll see if I can find the link.

Glad to have you back!

[pelago]

WENT OVER THERE AND LOOKED, great video on rebuilding the box, and i used that to do just that. but damn no videos on tube. Mike said it goes in from the top, but it is bigger round than the damn shaft is has to go in2848 2849 that and configure the horn is all i need to do, box rebuilt and peeeeeerty, while waiting i am wire brushing the air cleaner, complete and in great shape no rust no dents ready to go when it is black.. got an extra one also