well, the darn thing is out

[gmwillys]

It was a thought. I know I've seen where someone put out a video about the steering column bearings, but do not remember quite were I saw it. I'll poke around and see if I can come up with anything.

[pelago]

the two bearings inside pretty straight forward bu the column??

[pelago]

I think either the generator or voltage regulator went south, voltmeter only reading battery

[gmwillys]

Have you full field the generator, and measured at the generator. LarrBeard had laid out the process better than anyone, so he can chime in and post.

[LarrBeard]

Have you full field the generator, and measured at the generator. LarrBeard had laid out the process better than anyone, so he can chime in and post.


Getting to the armature and field on an M38A1 generator is a pain if you have to fish in the connectors, but it is the same process. Put a lantern battery on the field, spin the generator and check armature (with no load on generator). Probably well over 50 volts in a 24-volt system.

I would not count out a wire problem since its been charging OK for a while.

[pelago]

i disconnected the wire going to voltage regulator. not sure which is which simple 3 connector plug. started engine up and got low voltage across field and winding way low, but not sure if that is correct test. maybe i got lucky though, there is a electric shop here and the owner appears to be comfortable with old cars and is a admirer and likes to work on "old stuff" and did find a "repair" kit on ebay that has all (think) pieces and parts on ebay

[gmwillys]

The 24 volt system is harder to troubleshoot, because all the connectors are sealed. When you disconnected the connector, you will see that the voltage is low. With the connector unhooked, then the regulator is taken out of the equation, thus the generator doesn't produce but a standby amount of voltage. There are some service kits that come up from time to time on Ebay, that the government had produced for troubleshooting all gas fueled military engines. The kit includes T harnesses that hook into your regulator harness so that the voltage can be measured while hooked up. The kit includes a 24 volt timing light, and instructions.

Your local electrical repair shop should be able to get you pointed in the right direction. He sounds like he knows his way around a generator.

[LarrBeard]

Here is a reprint of my "Full Field" instructions for a 12-volt system.

On the M38A1, the ARM terminals are A and C in the generator connector, For this test, you only need one of them. FIELD is B. Even with the regulator disconnected, you will get some voltage from the ARM terminal from residual magnetism in the field pole pieces. The case is ground.


Full fielding a generator is a term used to describe the process where you drive a bunch of current into the field coil to see just how much voltage the generator will produce. The voltage output of a generator is regulated by limiting the current going into the field coil.

There are a lot of ways to do this, but here is a way that is pretty safe and won't damage anything.

Go get a big square six-volt lantern battery - the kind with spring contacts.

You will need a couple of jumper leads to connect it to the generator. You are going to use this battery to provide current to the generator field coil to create a magnetic field in the generator. The lantern battery won't deliver enough current to damage anything. Connect the NEGATIVE terminal to the generator ground terminal.

Disconnect the field and armature leads from the generator. The ARMATURE is generally the larger of the two insulated terminals, the FIELD is the smaller. GROUND or NEGATIVE is the screw into the generator frame.

Connect a voltmeter to the armature terminal of the generator. If it's a manual voltmeter, set to read about 50-volts (you can adjust later). Start the vehicle (generator is turning). Connect the POSITIVE terminal of the battery to the generator's FIELD terminal.

You should get a significant voltage reading on the voltmeter. Vary engine speed and the voltage should vary - higher speed, higher voltage. Don't be surprised at 35 or more volts on a 12-volt system - that's why you disconnected the ARMATURE terminal on the generator; 35-volts doesn't do batteries or bulbs any good.

If you get the high voltage from the generator, you have pretty well proven that the generator is working.

I don't like to full field a generator using the vehicle battery because it can deliver LOTS of amps into the field coil. The lantern battery will current limit itself below damage level.

Don't run at the high voltage too long, just satisfy yourself that things work. It is not out of the question that the "new" voltage regulator is defective. We had a new regulator fail when we were doing the '48 (another oh-by-the-way) and we used this process to isolate whether the 70-year old generator or new regulator was the problem.

If the generator checks OK - I'd replace the regulator after I checked all of the wiring.

Let us know what you find.Full fielding a generator is a term used to describe the process where you drive a bunch of current into the field coil to see just how much voltage the generator will produce. The voltage output of a generator is regulated by limiting the current going into the field coil.

There are a lot of ways to do this, but here is a way that is pretty safe and won't damage anything.

Go get a big square six-volt lantern battery - the kind with spring contacts.

You will need a couple of jumper leads to connect it to the generator. You are going to use this battery to provide current to the generator field coil to create a magnetic field in the generator. The lantern battery won't deliver enough current to damage anything. Connect the NEGATIVE terminal to the generator ground terminal.

Disconnect the field and armature leads from the generator. The ARMATURE is generally the larger of the two insulated terminals, the FIELD is the smaller. GROUND or NEGATIVE is the screw into the generator frame.

Connect a voltmeter to the armature terminal of the generator. If it's a manual voltmeter, set to read about 50-volts (you can adjust later). Start the vehicle (generator is turning). Connect the POSITIVE terminal of the battery to the generator's FIELD terminal.

You should get a significant voltage reading on the voltmeter. Vary engine speed and the voltage should vary - higher speed, higher voltage. Don't be surprised at 35 or more volts on a 12-volt system - that's why you disconnected the ARMATURE terminal on the generator; 35-volts doesn't do batteries or bulbs any good.

If you get the high voltage from the generator, you have pretty well proven that the generator is working.

I don't like to full field a generator using the vehicle battery because it can deliver LOTS of amps into the field coil. The lantern battery will current limit itself below damage level.

Don't run at the high voltage too long, just satisfy yourself that things work. It is not out of the question that the "new" voltage regulator is defective. We had a new regulator fail when we were doing the '48 (another oh-by-the-way) and we used this process to isolate whether the 70-year old generator or new regulator was the problem.

If the generator checks OK - I'd replace the regulator after I checked all of the wiring.

Let us know what you find.

[pelago]

what would i need for 24vdc, two batteries in series??

[LarrBeard]

All you need is the 6-volt lantern battery. You are using the battery to drive current into the field coil of the generator and make a magnetic field. The generator is going to run in an unregulated mode just to see that it makes a voltage when it spins. It will be an unregulated voltage that varies with engine speed. A 12-volt generator can deliver about 35-volts open loop with no control of field current. A 24-volt may go way above that ... 50?

[pelago]

Just took cable off and was able to highlight the a,b.c so i could quickly see it and id it, lantern battery on shopping list, need one anyway

[pelago]

DAMN.......... got out the manual to id ABC no they could not do that they just have arrows pointing to the three wires and saying field and armature but no A, B, or C HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A IS OR WHAT B IS OR WHAT C IS. MANUAL ZERO HELP

[gmwillys]

Pelago,

It took me a little bit, but I found what I was looking for. This link should set you up.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6531&highlight=

[LarrBeard]

I read gmwillys' thread and here is the picture of the connector, with pins showing!

And now I know the last of the connector part number ...

MSxxxx-22-2S on the generator, MSxxxx-22-2P on the harness.

(22 is the shell size, 2 is the contact arrangement and P/S is pin/socket)

Dern, we're gettin' smart here.

[pelago]

This item here is great... Upper echelon maintenance not user/operator clean battery cable maintenance tm 9-1825b . Going to do first part soon, now that identified b is what i want.

Kinda worried about taking cover off regulator.. All screws broken loose but one and probably will have to dremel remove it. BUT WONT I STILL HAVE TO POLARIZE REG, NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS, NO, I UNDERSTAND THE POLARIZATION, BUT MAYBE DID A DUMB THING BUT SINCE IT WAS RUNNING AND USED SAME PARTS AS ORIGINAL THOUGHT WHY NOT JUST PUT IT TOGETHER AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND IT WAS PUTTING OUT 27-29 VOLTS AT STARTER (WHERE I PUT VOLTMETER) THEN IT STOPPED??

Is this the same as hitting the field with a 6volt lantern battery?

since am going to be touching a 24vdc hot lead to pin think i will reverse that and leave one connector?aligator lead to the pin and make the weld spot on the battery lead on the starter....that way wont have a weld spot on that exp cable

[gmwillys]

If the regulator wasn't polarized from the start, you would not have been getting your 27 to 29 volts. No, it wasn't a dumb thing to hook up and run. Unless new parts are added to the regulator of generator, then there would have been no need to re-polarize. I've seen guys that were insistent on polarizing each and every time they unhooked the wires. It doesn't hurt anything to be too cautious. With that being said, if you take a die grinder to hardware, then it would be a good idea to polarize afterward.

[pelago]

One stinking screw just wont budge and not too keen on a torch on painted surface, but think i can get dremel cutter in there and cut head off, if i have to.. have never been inside one of these, ever even the old ford type. but now have manual?? but if it is pieces or parts bad, not going to be any good unless it is rectifier/whatever is in there or maybe resistor? not going to get any parts, so if i do the other test and am at still reading batt voltage at starter, then not charging and i cant help but think generator good, it is built like a tank, maybe brushes and you can get those, along with some other stuff in repair kit and have found regulators supposedly for this make and model jeep

and if i gotta touch hot lead will be touching hot lead to battery/starter and leave weld spot there

[LarrBeard]

The filter, capacitor, R4 and the rectifier are all parts added to reduce interference in the radio package on the M38A1. They don't do anything in regard to the generator's basic charging function.

I'd clean relay contact points with 400 or 600 grit emery paper then wash away grit and crud with a piece of typing paper wet down with alcohol of contact cleaner. Be careful not to bend things.

[pelago]

The filter, capacitor, R4 and the rectifier are all parts added to reduce interference in the radio package on the M38A1. They don't do anything in regard to the generator's basic charging function.

I'd clean relay contact points with 400 or 600 grit emery paper then wash away grit and crud with a piece of typing paper wet down with alcohol of contact cleaner. Be careful not to bend things.

this is assuming i can get the cover off a ??old volt reg?

[LarrBeard]

Ira:

Just pretend there is some booze in there. A Marine can open just about anything if there is booze to be found.

Oh, by the way - my wife started taking vancomycin for a stomach infection today. I sounded like I knew what I was talking about when the Dr. started telling us about it since I had looked it up while I was trying to figure out your message last week.

How are you doing?

[pelago]

ah not sure, seem to still have infection in right calf at least it feels that way. damn diabetes gonna kill me i think. and then have afib which creates sluggishness and loss of any get up and go and sleep issues, dont want to rant but getting sick of being sick. just want to go out to garage and do stuff, ya know.........

[LarrBeard]

Yeah - gettin' old isn't for sissies, but its way ahead of the other choice.

Here is some info I found somewhere... It's something out of a 1000+ page Army TM that dates back to the 1940's that covers just about everything you might find on a vehicle.


You'll need a copy of TM9-1825B Electrical Equipment (Auto-Lite) November 1952 or newer. Or TM9-1825A or C (can't remember) Electrical Equipment (Delco Remy). {That's the 1000+ page document}

If you have the Auto-Lite VBC4002UT or VBC4003UT look at the regulator from the side with the 2 electrical plugs to your left, the 3 major units are left to right: 1-Circuit breaker 2-Current regulator 3-voltage regulator.

Usually problems are just pitted or corroded contacts. File them very lightly with an ignition point metal file (or a girl's METAL finger nail file) then clean them by passing a tape of thin cloth soaked in carbon tetrachloride or any top quality electric contact cleaner. Run her and see what you get.

Adjustment is straight forward for each. Circuit breaker armature air gap .000 to .065 and contact point gap .035 min.

Current regulator armature air gap .047 to .049 and gap between contact spring and stop is .010 to .016.

Voltage regulator armature air gap is .040 to .042 and gap between contact spring and stop is .010 to .016.

Contact pressure for CR & VR is 7 to 8 OZ's. Circuit breaker operating ranges are:

Closing volts 25.7 to 26.7 and;

Opening amps (discharge) 7.0 to 11.0.

Current regulator operating amps 24.5 to 26.0.

Voltage regulator operating voltage at 70 Deg's is 28.30 + or - .40."

Probably too much information

[pelago]

wow. thats a lot, but will try, after i get the dam cover off, so far 4 hours of slide knife blade and tap tap tap with small mallet, just to start the separation, still have to cut off the one screw head with dremel cut off tool, and quite frankly this is so tiresome because the damn thing was working after a moment of running the regulator turned on ( i believe anyway because my simpson 260 at the 50volst scale would read 28 vdc at the battery) damn damn double damn. i so wanted to get on with the body but just can not push this thing out of garage until i am satisfied it is 100% ready to go, and it aint, fixing the leak in transmission was tiring. then i had a leak in the transfer case and i took it apart and ordered new seals, and when i took it apart there were zero shims in it then when it put it together Mike at Kaiser tells me should have 1 3thousand play in it, now got to drain it, take it apart and play with shims, not sure about that because there were no shims in it. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[pelago]

Well tmrw the 6VDC batt test, wish me luck, if i got voltage then regulator, did find one on ebay for 65.00

[LarrBeard]

Well tmrw the 6VDC batt test, wish me luck, if i got voltage then regulator, did find one on ebay for 65.00

Did you get the pin-up poster? If not, int qth?

[pelago]

pin up poster now on the wall in garage hanging over the work bench. apologize for my tardiness and thanks to all:D

back on topic gen/voltage reg.
did the simple test, not wanting to weld anything i did the 6volt lantern battery deal. with engine running i momentarily touched the pos 6vdc to pin B that is the recognized correct pin while reading pin a tremendous rise in output of generator, did same on pin c again tremendous rise in voltage, was on 25volt scale on simpson and got almost 12 volts, while as in idle got low low voltage quickly shut down and looking like voltage reg went south on me

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-M37-Jeep-Willys-M38A1-Voltage-Regulator-NOS/142870458227?hash=item2143be2f73:g:gL4AAOSwlZFay6d f&vxp=mtr

[gmwillys]

Sounds like a regulator to me. That looks to be a good deal on the regulator. It looks to be new as they claim, whether it be a Depot refurbished or NOS, either way it should work well for you.

Great to have you back in action. Don't over do it though.

[LarrBeard]

You wrote:

"did the simple test, not wanting to weld anything i did the 6volt lantern battery deal."

Technically you can do this with the 24V batteries, but if you have a shorted field coil, a lot of current goes somewhere with things evaporating in between. In many cases you can also do this by just grounding the field, but that depends on the residual magnetism in the pole pieces - questionable on something that has been sitting a long time.

The 6-volt battery test involves a couple of amps, not enough to do any welding. Had you run the engine up, you would have gotten a bunch of volts. One guy I am working with got about 40-volts off his 12-volt generator, but he is getting a negative voltage from his generator. Huh???

Meter leads are right, but he had the generator redone recently. He suspects field coils reversed. I suggested he take it back to the shop and have them check it on their bench and show him it works.

By the way, thank Amy @ KWAS for the poster! We started the project while you were in sick bay and we figured that was about as much excitement as you could share in today's politically correct world.

Get better!

The solid state regulator would be a good deal. It is more reliable. I saw the $65 eBay one, but it didn't have a cover, just the guts. It was a NOS unit, so if you salvage a cover, it would work too.

[pelago]

going to try one more time to get cover off the one that is in the jeep, will have to remove on screw head with dremel to do it, but then i can visually inspect and clean contacts, not real interested in rebuilding one, seems once you get inside of one of these things you keep finding more and more wrong

[pelago]

DAMN!!!! I GOT MOVEMENT ON SIMPSON 260 Was running the engine and looked down and was seeing spikes up to 28volts+ tapped on the regulator and got more spikes, did not stay up there but feel strongly that got to take cover off and get in there, contacts?? clean. first thing in morning will do so, maybe its cuz i put up the great get well card?? sadly to say that is only the 2nd one ever received in my life, but sure brought a smile

[LarrBeard]

Well, it worked for a while when you were checking things earlier.

Dirty contacts are high on the hit list...

Here is a good tutorial (from 1948!) on regulators. It has a section about cleaning contacts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRk1xbJIBcY



Good luck.

[pelago]

Still have not removed cover, drinking some coffee and getting ready to take the dremel and cut off the one bad screw head. This another reason i like my analog simpson, a digital would not have caught the spikes. but watching the voltage on the simpson i could see source 24vdc and then see the spikes to 28 volts, momentarily, then back to source then another bunch of spikes. Agree contacts high on the list. might get lucky and a simple cleaning might work it out. i like those old tech videos, reminds me of Marine Corps audio/visual training aids. old school stuff, but then again it fits me OLD!!

[pelago]

COVER OFF! DAMN LOOKS BRAND NEW INSIDE SUPER CLEAN.. Contact points pretyt, grey, no burn marks just corroded looking, cleaned them the relay on right closest to the cables was stuck open, manually worked it back and forth and adj the wheel so there was somemore tension on it.
STARTED HER UP, IMMEDIATELY GOT 29 VOLTS THEN VOLTAGE RELAY CLOSED AND I GOT 34 VOLTS. that seems a bit high, called my super mechanic neighbor and he said that that voltage is kinda pushing it. he is going to research this reg and come down and do some magic, but it do work........

[gmwillys]

Congrats! Glad you won the battle. You needed a win.

As a general rule, voltage should be 28 bolts when batteries are discharged. The voltage would be at 27 volts normally.

[pelago]

went thru the electronic manual TM 9-1825B Electrical Equipment (Auto-Lite), 1944 : United States. War Department : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive not a lot of help, lots of resistance measurments but kind of lacking on what to adjust, feel that the voltage is a bit "brisk" but that should be able to adj down, let it run for 1/2 hour and batteries stayed a pretty much ambient temp, not hot at all. BUT DAMN I DO FEEL GOOD!! I KNOW WHY IT WORKED I AM WORKING UNDER THIS NEAT POSTER A GREAT BUNCH OF GUYS SENT ME.............

Now to figure out how to get the damn race bearing inside that damn tube29022903

[gmwillys]

The charging systems haven't changed a whole lot in 65 years. The Stryker uses a 570 amp/ 24 volt alternator to run all the Buck Rogers gizmos that our soldiers need for safe passage to and from the battlefield. The regulator is very similar to the one used on your M38A1. As far as adjustments for the regulator, I will have to read up on it to see what adjustments can be made.

Sounds like LarrBeard has out done himself on the poster. He knew exactly what you needed to speed up your recovery.

[pelago]

yeah when the cut off is closed i read excess 30 volts when open i read 28 nominal, but after 1/2 hour feeling the sides of the batteries does not show any heat in them

[LarrBeard]

Amy is the poster lady - no; not the poster girl .....

[pelago]

do these gaps look right, from the tech manual for electronics/regulator page2904 2905

[gmwillys]

That is a good source of information. That should get you all set to go.

[LarrBeard]

Looking at several places, a charge voltage of about 7.5 volts is just about right for a three-cell battery (6-volts). Many older charging systems were set to 7.8 volts. Now, if I take that number for a three-cell battery and multiply times 4 for a 12-cell 24-volt system, anything under 31.2 volts would be an acceptable charge level.

Anything under 28.4-volts is getting on the low side.

[pelago]

it is reading 34 vdc, nothing gets hot, but just too much, when i release the disconnect relay by pushing down on the voltage realy the disconnect disconnects and it goes to 29 volts as soon as i release the voltage relay the disconnect goes back into play and it goes to 34 volts


2907

when i break the contacts on the center relay the reg relay on far right breaks contact and voltage rests at 29 with a nominal + but a good charge voltage, have no idea what why this happens, but when the last relay on right activates it puts a considerable load on motor

[pelago]

you know this thing here turning into a book? 77k looked at it, damn

[LarrBeard]

That's because it's a good story and we're answering questions people want to know the answers to. Here is some info about that regulator:

Ira – and all who read this. Corrections are welcomed since a lot of this is from just reading and looking. I could be full of … whatever … on some of this.

The generator in the M38A1 is what is called a type A generator. It has its field coils isolated from the armature internally. One end of the field coils is grounded, the other comes out to the field contact in the generator connector.

Look at the two figures I have attached to this note.

The first is the internal wiring diagram of what I think is the regulator for the M38A1. There are so many variations running around there may be some differences, but I hope I’m using the right diagram.

The second diagram is what I’ve come up with after a week of studying old stuff. I’ve drawn it to look like relays and switches because that’s what you and I recognize.

On the left, S1 is the cutout relay contacts. This is the left relay in the box and when the generator stops producing a voltage, it disconnects the battery from the generator (the ARMATURE connection). Since the engine is running and the generator is charging the battery this switch is closed.

Now, we have two sets of relay contacts and one (and only one) resistor controlling the generator.

In the condition have drawn the circuit, this represents the condition at start-up. The full battery voltage is being connected across the field coils through S2,S3 and K3B and the system is charging pretty hard.

K2 is the middle relay, the over current relay, that controls S2. Until the current provided by the generator exceeds the safe rating for the brushes and windings, that relay will not energize and S2 stays closed. If you open those contacts manually, (which you say you have done) you switch R3 into the field circuit. That reduces the field current – which in turn lowers the output voltage of the generator.

Now, K3A is the voltage sensing coil for the voltage regulator relay. As long as S3, (the contacts on the voltage regulator relay) stays closed, the current set by S2’s condition will flow in the field coil. I cannot find any information on just what K3B does, but it is a current coil in series with the field.

Here is what I suspect happens. Current flowing through K3B keeps S3 closed under normal conditions. K3A, the voltage coil for K3, is connected to the BATT/ARM through resistor R2. If Armature (and battery) voltage gets to the regulator set point, current through K3A opposes the magnetic field set up by K3B and opens S3. Field current is now set by the series combination of R1 and R2, which lowers field current – reducing output voltage – allowing S3 to close again and the cycle continues.

S3 only opens a very few thousandths of an inch, and will open and close a couple of hundred times a second as the battery approaches full charge.

Since charge cutout voltage is high, the springs that hold the points closed are exerting too much tension. The cutout point can be changed by adjusting the nut on the voltage regulator armature - its movable coil. The photo shows the spring adjustment on a civilian regulator out of the '48 junk pile.

Another guess. When you manually open the contacts on the center relay (the over current relay), you remove most of the current through K3B. That leaves K3A as the controlling coil for S3. Since K3A will have voltage on it, and K3B can’t override it, K3A opens S3 when S2 is opened.

With S2 and S3 open, there is still some field current through R1 and R2.

Just to finish the story, R4 is there to absorb energy dumped when the magnetic field in the field coils collapses as S2 and S3 open and close. As the field collapses, a negative transient is generated. Even civilian regulators use this resistor to protect the points on the relays from arcing too badly. Since the M38 has a bunch of radios, which DO NOT like negative transients, the rectifier (also commonly called a transient suppresion diode) clamps negative spikes at the field terminal.

And, to answer the last point. With the last relay on the right activated, the center relay activated and the left relay activated, the generator is charging the battery at its highest possible charge rate. Yep, that’s a considerable load on the engine.

GUYS –If this isn’t right – correct me!

[pelago]

was measuring voltage and making notes of what was where, and i accidently activated the cut off relay and damn the generator started up like a motor. wow, but took me few seconds to get dc disconnected and had a whisp of smoke from regulator, going to have to look under neath and make sure nothing got crispy

[gmwillys]

LarrBeard, excellent work on your research. I can say that I've learned a lot about the voltage regulator from your work.

Pelago, your body of work on your project is an inspiration to the rest of us to get out and make our restorations happen. I look forward to seeing your daily progress. Now, I need life to slow up a bit to get after my own project.

[pelago]

letting voltage regulator cool a bit, got to do some thinking on that. lot of great information but need to digest it a bit. now this damned steering rod and the tube driving me nuts29152916
i have already destroyed one of these and have the original one, cleaned up and lubricated (considerably more substantial than the new one) and then have the new one from Kaiser. HOW IN THE SAM HELL DO YOU GET THAT DAMNED RACE BEARING INSIDE THE TUBE FROM THE TOP

[gmwillys]

Kaiser Willys has a video showing the bearing sliding into place. I would take an inside caliper and measure the column tube to ensure that the tube is in fact round, then compare the bearing outside diameter with the inside diameter of the tube. Compare the original bearing with the reproduction bearing. Something is out of whack for you to not be able to get the bearing to seat within the tube. If you will, take some pictures of what you are seeing, then maybe one of us will see something that is amiss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsILb3-O4AY

[LarrBeard]

Voltage regulator is probably OK. Go do something else for a while and we'll figure out how to reset the over-voltage relay when we need to. You've got enough battery to start it every so often to keep it in the habit of running.

[pelago]

I AM (EVERY ADJECTIVE IN THE WORLD TO EMPHASIZE STUPID) STUPID All the diagrams i had suggest that the upper race bearing is inserted with the shaft hole DOWN, and that is how i have been trying to do this, not having a whole steering assembly that was not destroyed i did not take one apart, all this time i had been trying to put the GD thing in uspside down. stupid stupid stupid

[gmwillys]

It happens. If you didn't take it apart, then you didn't see how it went in. Glad you were able to get it figured out.

How are you feeling these days? Good to have you back on, and making forward progress.

[LarrBeard]

Nawhhh .. you aren't stupid.

Stupid is like ugly and mean, it's bone deep and you can't cure it.

The illustrations weren't clear. You just hadn't learned that particular trick yet - now you have moved from uninformed to being an Expert since you've solved the problem once. And - there are several people out here who saw you solve that problem and, one of these days when they need to replace that bearing, they will remember some guy who found out it won't go in upside down and save them the mistake.

Keep on making mistakes - we're learning a lot from your efforts!

E8B Sends

[pelago]

got the voltage regulator out and checking gap, and adj same. thanks for the compliment but still feel like a dumbass, one good thing i used the original race bearing, once i had it cleaned up and re lubed felt more comfortable with it than the replacement, old one just huskier, and metal thicker

[gmwillys]

You'll be safe using the original bearing. We all learn from things we did right, but more so from things we did wrong. Now to tackle the regulator.

[pelago]

uh oh, after spending all day reg, cleaned, cleaned points measured points adjusted points, all readings within normal limits, plugged it in, nothing just sat there, then the cut off activated but nothing happened then the smoke escaped. cut off relay winding smoked, and the smoke got away................

[gmwillys]

I hate it when the magic smoke escapes! Lucus had a jar of replacement smoke... I'll have to find the picture again.

[pelago]

I hate it when the magic smoke escapes! Lucus had a jar of replacement smoke... I'll have to find the picture again.thought i had that but can not find it either, i think cut off relay was faulty to begin with

[gmwillys]

English cars were the worst, with the positive ground systems. Early Jags were nice to look at, but would often leave you walking home.

[pelago]

didnt Lady Dianna piss off the whole country when she bought a mercedes instead of driving the jag? thought i read that somewhere and she said she wanted a car to drive not visit the mechanic every two days

[gmwillys]

I wouldn't doubt it. Now the Mini Cooper is made by BMW, because it took the Germans to make the darn thing reliable. Ford lost money when it bought into Jag, just in warranty claims. GM did as well, when they owned Opel and SAAB... (yeah SAAB is not British but close enough. SAAB is the sound that the owner makes upon leaving the mechanic shop).

Here is a link to the Lucas magic smoke replacement tool;

http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm

[pelago]

OIL BATH AIR CLEANER
Inside the top section there is a screen and then some kind of (unknown to me) fiber that filters air as it is sucked in. what in the hell is it?? where do you get it,,, can it be replaced with bulk brass wool???

[gmwillys]

The brass or copper wool is enclosed in a cartridge. You can clean it by soaking it in kerosene or solvent, then blowing it out with shop air. Dish soap and water will work in a pinch, as well. It shouldn't need to be replaced, but I did find a source for a used one.

https://powderriverordnance.com/shop/m38a1-willys-jeep/wwii-air-cleaner-element/?v=7516fd43adaa

[LarrBeard]

I'm just finishing up my air cleaner project on the '48 and I figured out what I think is a nice trick.

We're not going to run our vehicles through sand piles and dust bowls, so the oil bath cleaner with a pint or so of oil in the bowl is a bit of overkill. I always manage to spill oil when I unlatch the cup to empty it.

I found a piece of foam sponge (pink, fairly soft - not hard) and cut it to fit probably two-thirds of the oil cup at the base of the filter. Then, I added enough oil to saturate the foam and leave a little oil exposed to catch dust. The oil still captures grit and dust as it turns the corner at the bottom of the filter, but it doesn't have the spill probability of a pan of oil.

Now, if I was running dirt roads or sand-buggying, this isn't a good idea, but if the dustiest place you go is a gravel driveway - maybe.

[gmwillys]

Sounds like a good plan to me. I like the looks of the original air cleaner, but yes the oil does go everywhere except the drain pan.

For those that are interested, there is a post where the folks over at G503 show the process for the conversion from an oil bath to a dry element filter;

http://legacy.1943mb.com/c-80-G503_WWII_Jeep_Oil_Bath_Air_Filter_conversion_to_D ry_Air_Filter.aspx

As a point, and counter point to this issue, here is a guy who had a rust issue after the conversion. I believe that if the air cleaner had been painted on the inside, then this would not have been a big issue. Being that the Jeep was stored outside under tarp, or inside a non climate controlled garage.

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/oil-bath-air-filter-conversion-to-dry-air-filter_topic35142.html

[pelago]

2956


this is out of tm 9 8014 and shows a piece i do not have, seems to be a short piece of tubing that goes over the carb intake and into the inlet hose from air cleaner. this connects the crankcase vent thru the oil filler.. page 153 of manual item E carb to aid intake pipe..................... got no idea where to find one of these (afro engineer)???

[pelago]

Sounds like a good plan to me. I like the looks of the original air cleaner, but yes the oil does go everywhere except the drain pan.

For those that are interested, there is a post where the folks over at G503 show the process for the conversion from an oil bath to a dry element filter;

http://legacy.1943mb.com/c-80-G503_WWII_Jeep_Oil_Bath_Air_Filter_conversion_to_D ry_Air_Filter.aspx

As a point, and counter point to this issue, here is a guy who had a rust issue after the conversion. I believe that if the air cleaner had been painted on the inside, then this would not have been a big issue. Being that the Jeep was stored outside under tarp, or inside a non climate controlled garage.

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/oil-bath-air-filter-conversion-to-dry-air-filter_topic35142.html

cool. might have to think of that old fashioned oil bath filters do work but can be messy messy messy

[LarrBeard]

I just took this off the '48.

I'll send it to you because I'll not use it again and it will just knock around the shop until someone throws it away.

If you can't use it - you get to throw it away!

Oh, by the way. The guy on ebay just knocked $20 off the M38A1 voltage regulator. He might take an offer he can't refuse since folks aren't fighting over it.

[pelago]

thats the one,,,, i figured would have to make one diameter is 2,3 and pi X diameter = circumference figued 7,22" welded 22 guage with a fitting in it but this is so neat, yeah am watching that real close but got to stick in my budget and hopefully will get it next week

thank you thank you thank you and i love the card

[pelago]

i just took this off the '48.

I'll send it to you because i'll not use it again and it will just knock around the shop until someone throws it away.

If you can't use it - you get to throw it away!

Oh, by the way. The guy on ebay just knocked $20 off the m38a1 voltage regulator. He might take an offer he can't refuse since folks aren't fighting over it.

got it and thank you so so much

[pelago]

TO DO LIST
completely cleaned air filter, was able to take out the fiberous (stuff) that was in the top part and actuall washed it in dish soap, came out pretty damned clean. washed and scrubbed the inside with dish soap also. sanded outside good and primed it and it is now USMC shitty green, same color as frame and body will be (looks brand new)
1. since the voltage regulator went south on me, that kinda screwed my plans a bit, was hoping to spend that money on some body panels. wasnt there something about the best layed plans of mice and men?? New Regulator
2. mount the steering,, and probably will brace it with a V shaped contraption out of wood, Murphys law, it is going to be covered by a tarp for a while and the thing is just too pricey to not do that. Already have the heat shield in place and one of the bolts from steering housing uses that
3. vacum lines?? IMHO will only hook up critical vacum lines a, line from oil filler to intake of carb b, dist and carb to a "T" then to powered fuel pump c, two lines from air filter one on the body the other on the top, too the same line that dist and carb are on with a "T" d, final (and jury still out on this one, just might not do it, aint gonna do the submarine thing) line from bell housing to pump. later on of course the window wipers
4. outside for a bath and then a good quality tarp, and move body to garage!!

[pelago]

this is rather curious, i have two air cleaners similar but not identical. both are from a M38A1 different years '52' 53 one has two air vent lines to go to vacuum pump with one of the holes in the top portion and the other hole in the bottom section of the cleaner. now the other cleaner has two holes also but they are side by side in the bottom section???297129722973



why would there be two vacuum lines anyway, especially the black cleaner and they are side by side?? actually cleaned both of them up, blasted them then painted with the rust over treatment, then primer then paint, going to offer the black one for sale as soon as i get the parts together that i want to sell

[pelago]

here is a block diagram,,, not the best quality butmy printer decided it did not want to scan anymore so this is a photo
comments,,, the original submarine m38a1 is a nightmare of plumbing for the vents and i think is reduced it to what is really needed

2976

[gmwillys]

As long as you are not planning any submarine action, the bell housing will not need to be induced into the vacuum system. Matter of fact, the master cylinder vent tube is a pain in the rear. To get in there to pull the vent tube, then pull the cap off the reservoir, then get it all back together will help you find religion. Napa should have bronze breather vents that will screw in place of the fittings. This will keep crud and bugs out while allowing the brakes to work. Here is a quick search of the internet on the breathers;

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=pneumatic+breather+vent&ul_noapp=true

The air cleaner on the right, (green) is an M151 air cleaner. The black is the correct unit for your project.

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=184160

[pelago]

damn?? the green one was bolted to the firewall of the m38a1?? thought they went together?, and when i did a search at kaiser i asked for a M38A1 air cleaner and the green one came up?? well it was practice cleaning it up. and it just so happens i have a extra master cylinder that has a solid (SOLID NON VENTED CAP) GUESS WHERE ITS GOING???

[LarrBeard]

By any chance, do the caps interchange?

Of course not .....

[pelago]

By any chance, do the caps interchange?

Of course not .....



as a matter of fact they did and the master cylinder now has a unvented cap

[pelago]

another air cleaner question, in my lifetime i doubt if i will be driving across dusty desserts, fording streams on Guadalcanal, evacuating from Inchon, o running up to the big PX on hill 327. So would one think that the 6" of clean stainless steel (wool) be enough for the air cleaner to provide clean air for the carb? putting oil in the bottom of the reservoir can be a messy proposition, am just thinking of not putting oil in there

[gmwillys]

I liked LarryBeards idea of soaking foam with oil to catch what little dirt may pass through the steel wool. It has been stated that the steel wool was good for stopping low flying birds.

When I saw the pictures of your air cleaners, it took me a few seconds to realize what it went to. The early models of M151 had the flat top air cleaner, while the later models had a rib formed around the top. I'll look and see what Kaiser's is offering.

[pelago]

another interesting item, the drag link. i have two of them, and i cleaned up one quite well, and i noticed on cleaning the secoond one for reference that they both had broken springs on them and they were both broken on the pittman side closer to the gear box. wonder if they were too tight? and the repair kit comes with new springs and one side will not be a issue but the front end one. five men and a little boy could not compress that spring and the way it is set up it has to bottom spring with curved piece in the spring, ball, then top end tightened down, here is the rub getting spring that curved piece and the damn arm in there at one time is going to try patience

[gmwillys]

I can not remember having any with a broken spring. I know that this item is seldom greased, but the springs were usually good to go upon reassembly. Being that I had not replaced the springs, I will have to do some research to see if others have had the same issue as you are seeing. The following videos should head you in the right direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWZjZyVJGqk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tSSnxgeSh0

[pelago]

3015 springs i got in rebuild kit seem much longer than the ones i took out?

[LarrBeard]

That could be the reason it won't go back together. As I looked at Yoo Toob videos, none of then needed five men and a waterboy to put it back together - and I don't recall that it was any big deal on the '48 either.....

[pelago]

NEW VOLTAGE REGULATOR ON ITS WAY expected arrival date 6 sep brush up on polarization again

[LarrBeard]

NEW VOLTAGE REGULATOR ON ITS WAY expected arrival date 6 sep brush up on polarization again
Did you get a relay or solid state unit?


We're a lot smarter about Type A and Type B generators and regulators than we were a couple of months ago. Let me look at Type A vs Type B to be sure I've given you good info. Your generator field coils are polarized, so there is probably no need to zap
the regulator, but let me look.

Good to hear from you again.

[LarrBeard]

I looked and poked around at all of the places I could think of.

Polarizing (flashing the field, full fielding - or whatever else it might be called) really only applies to generators, not the voltage regulator itself. Now, the process is often done at the voltage regulator terminals because all of the connections you need are right there, but it is a process for the generator, not the regulator.

The only reference I found about polarizing the regulator concerned a positive ground Ford tractor. We don't have to concern ourselves about that; all M38's are negative ground.

We know that your generator is properly polarized - it's not putting out -24 volts. It hasn't been sitting long enough to lose residual magnetism in the generator pole pieces. Rather than fish around in those connectors, I would just hook things up and light it off!

I think you're good to go.

[pelago]

Knew was in for a better day, made eggs this am and had two double yoke eggs in a row.....
success Then USPS delivered new regulator, put it in and a little over 29 volts at the battery
3020302130223023

[LarrBeard]

Yeee - Hawwwww

Chalk up one for the old guys for a change!

Hey - take the day off on Monday.

Oops, we're retired - every day is a day off .....

[pelago]

putting my little boat in the water, and see if something wants to get into frying pan, have a 14' alumacraft with 15hp merc 4 stroke, goes like a bat outta hell, and have a trolling motor. wth right?

[gmwillys]

Good deal! You were destin for greatness today. Good luck on your fishing trip, hope your luck continues!

[pelago]

caught some speckled trout... 1/2 dozen kept 2 released the others. only keep what i am eating tonight. 15" perfect for frying pan, some baked beans, canned potatoes, and corn bread. regular shore lunch....

but did manage to get the steering box on and gonna wing it with the drag link, the instructions are confusing one picture has spring and curved piece in first then pitman arm and that dont work. so gonna put the bottom in and then the pitman and then the other curved piece then the spring...... then figure out the other end.. oh yeah need three bolts the ones i had look kinda bad so the thing is in there butnot tight enable to replace bolts and lock washers with new ones

[gmwillys]

The steering box mount bolts are in my opinion are mandatory replacement items. Often on rust belt heeps, the bolts mic out thinner than the were originally in the center. Good insurance well spent.... Good enough for moving the frame around for you to be able to put the body in to start the body work.

Shore lunch is the best by far for fresh fish. Glad you had a good day out on the water.

[pelago]

EVERYTHING ON THIS PART OF RESTORATION IS NOW DONE, Steering in, had a small leak because did not have the lower seal low enough, moved it and all done, now to roll it out and start on the body

[gmwillys]

Now the fun begins, and my area of greater experience. I've been looking forward for you to get to this point.

[pelago]

question, passenger side floor bad, and part of ext fender bad and so is the backing on the passenger side bad and tool box. better to work from inside to out or outside to in. floor and such out or fender and such in?

[gmwillys]

I found that if the body and cowl is fairly intact, then start with the floor and work your way out. The tool box can be left in, as long as the top section is solid enough to keep the body side from flexing. Once the floor is in, then I took a replacement panel for the front of the tool box. It was a little bit difficult to get the tool box front in after the floor, but the reproduction piece needed a fair amount of trimming and tweaking. The floor kept everything in check. One thing I did learn while welding in the floor, limit heat exposure length to the curves of the body. As you can see from the picture, the floor pulled up at the curve from too much heat. It wouldn't have been a big deal, but being inside the tool box, it took some doing to straighten out the floor after the body was put back on a frame. Stick with moving around a lot when stitching the metal together.

Take the most solid factory point, and work off that. On the one I worked, the whole driver's side was Swiss cheese at best. The center line was good and solid, so I worked the center line outward.

[pelago]

ORDERING FIRST FLOOR PANEL and since i have no idea what to remove have to wait til it gets here to see how much has to go, lots of holes, lots. all on passenger side. once i get it in will lay it on top of floor and run a marker around the periphery to identify and cut a inch inside the mark (i think)

[gmwillys]

The replacement sheet metal may need to be trimmed to fit your needs. I remember the passenger side being right on the money as far as the size of the floor board. It was the only floor piece that was purchased new, except for the fuel tank well. The driver's side was a recycled floor out of another A1 that was rotten on the right side.

[pelago]

got my work cut out for me lots of panels to replace

[pelago]

I have kept a very accurate log and journal of repair costs, even as small as $3.00 for bolts, small charges for hose clamps, fittings for fuel etc.. and this figure also has the rental for the trailer to get one of the hulks. and includes the original cost of the hulks that i got
total outlay to date $6247.00 the original cost was $1400.00 for the two of them and this is over 2 1/2 years, been some posts about how much does it cost, well here is what i have spent. I am confident in the repairs to the frame and the workings of the suspension and the brakes, hell they are all new, fuel pump, rebuilt distributor, new voltage regulator all new exhaust. As far as I am concerned this vehicle now at this stage is as restored as it can be. and could be inserted into the assembly line for a new body to put on if it were 1952

[pelago]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1801234919990892/?ref=netego_ssfy_www here is a cj for sale for 500.00

[gmwillys]

You are still well under the cost of buying one completed. The best part of doing all of it yourself, you know what you have in front of you. Often as stated in this forum, people are trying to figure out what they are starting with, or what they have.

Hopefully the hurricane will turn back out to sea.

[pelago]

this is where my house is,,, well at least it is there today??

https://www.mapquest.com/search/results?query=hubert%20nc&boundingBox=36.319551259461186,-80.4583740234375,33.073130945006625,-73.8995361328125&page=0

[gmwillys]

If you need to head south west, we have a spare room if you want it. The news was saying that several gas stations were running out of gas.

[pelago]

Me and my best friend Mr Moxie Magoo a 7 yr old lab are waiting it out, so far not much but is early

[gmwillys]

Just keep your head down. Mr. Moxie Magoo will keep you alerted to any problems. Did you lower your HAM radio antenna? It may come in handy in the aftermath.

[pelago]

yeah, big stick down and ant actually removed and bare tower up,,, it seems to shed high winds, but do have two VHF ant at 80' listening to ch 16 marine now some vessels off hatteras reporting high seas

[pelago]

Its funny that my jeep frame and motor happens to be in the strongest structure i have on the property. I built my garage and the base plates are double 2"X6" pressure treated, the walls are 16" center 2X6" double anchored with threaded rod capped to top. frame sits on two courses cinder block grouted with concrete. a full 1/2" real plywood roof, double nailed, 16" center trusses on roof, overhand on both ends are pressure treated 2X4's covered with pressure treated lumber, all exterior molding, facia etc are pressure treated.. and inside sits the jeep

[LarrBeard]

We're watching with you.
How high are you above sea level?

[pelago]

actual sea level about 16' can see surf line from tower, about 1 1/2 miles due south, dunno????304330443045


that is a five element beam 10, 15, and 20 meters,,, great antenna and with a henry 3KA what a signal, i routinely talk to vessels all over the world and have a friend that works on a oil tug off african coast in a real shiity part of africa (i know name one part that aint shitty) the road in front of my house goes to a creek called Queens Creek, it goes right to ICW and to what is called Browns inlet, a non navigable inlet on the coast If i see water climbing up the road, could get dicey

[LarrBeard]

" could get dicey "

Head over to Le Jeune.

CG has opened base to folks with DOD ID.

[pelago]

thinking of that but they do not allow dogs and i just wont leave my Labrador to be alone, cant do it

[LarrBeard]

thinking of that but they do not allow dogs and i just wont leave my Labrador to be alone, cant do it


Understand. Be as safe as you can and let us know status as soon as you can.

[pelago]

early but it is pretty benign so far, not that much rain, and it seems to me that the north west portion of the outflow not pickup up moisture and energy because much of it over land. highest gust so far about 30knots,, one small band of rain but still early yet Can yo believe this,,, looters already reported in my area, they come here they will not be happy

Power went out for about 15 minutes but then came back but expect that sometime in the next 24 will lose it, generator set up and cables ran. coleman camp stove set up on back porch,, coffee pot, cast iron skillet, spam, eggs, rice and beans, got plenty, hell even got a case or two of MRE's (YUK), My dog kinda skittish now and wont leave my side

[gmwillys]

A looter wouldn't stand a chance within a block of your place. You and your pup stay safe. At least there is no chance that you will not eat too many MREs at one time. The beef stew is awful. The C ration peanut butter dated '43 wasn't half bad when you mixed the peanut oil back in.

[pelago]

JUST got interente. food okay, water okay, no power only 8hrs fuel left for generator, no cell service. no idea when power back,,, county wide out, have trees on roof, tree on truck, positive was hit by tornado, saw walls expand and now back door to utility room sprung? torqued", pool motor hit by tree, over 200 tabs from roof all over the place, tree fell on a good radiator and also on two repairable fenders. all the tree damage from neighbors trees none of mine fell, inspection of trees, they were all twisted tops off, but the trees flew over 100 foot, was very lound, during worst of storm someone tried to steal generator and they did get three cans of gas. 3 am heard generator make noise change and it was moving, ran out with pajamas on and no shoes and three guys pushing generator, damd itiot i left walther in holster next to bed, body slammed one of them and then they ran and got into a suv and took off, no glasses on could not get id on plates, managed to get a call into police and they said that others in my area also hit. but they did get three brand new cans of gas 18 gallons. this morning i saw (at lest i think i saw) the suv with a pick up truck full of bycylles and tools? called cops again well tried to anyway. me and mr magoo holding on over 28" rain in my yard

[LarrBeard]

I can speak for the whole group to say that we're glad to hear from you and that you and Magoo made it through mostly undamaged and intact.

Be careful the next few days and don't get hurt in cleanup efforts.

Just remember; if you shoot a looter- he gets a free "no recovery, no fee" ambulance chasing lawyer. You have to pay for yours.

[gmwillys]

Glad to hear from you! I was getting worried about you. Let us know if you need any help in the clean up effort. It isn't too far of a drive.

North Carolina has what is called castle doctrine law, when it comes to protecting one's property. The following information was pulled from the North Carolina Stand Your Ground Law. There is some grey area when it comes to whether or not you feel threatened or not, but for the most part it is solid information.

The “Castle Doctrine” law, addresses specific circumstances under which a person can legally shoot or employ deadly force against another. ... Under N.C.'s Castle Doctrine the lawful occupant of a home, motor vehicle or workplace isn't required to retreat prior to using deadly force

https://rowanfreepress.com/2014/03/30/n-c-law-for-defending-your-home-vehicles-and-work-place-castle-doctrine/

[pelago]

No power but from own generator a 7 kw
got some gas one station opened up on gen and police were managing the lines, no food available all stores shuttered

[gmwillys]

With the mail and UPS down, there is no way to get into your area with the roads still impassable. Let me know what you need in a private message, with your address, and we will see about getting it done.

[pelago]

OH THANK YOU SO MUCH, BUT I AM GOOD.... DONATE IT TO A LOCAL SHELTER OR GIVE TO SOME ORG LIKE SALVATION ARMY,, I AM GOOD... Saw my first natonal guard they drove by in a humvee

[gmwillys]

There is a couple of local organizations that will be giving 100% of all donated money and goods to hurricane relief. The Cajun Navy came through before the storm came ashore, and gathered up water and supplies as they headed your way.

The offer still stands, whatever you need, we are here for you. We need to take care of our own.

[pelago]

wed am, no power, no idea when seems that there are a number of poles down between my neighborhood and the substation but power company working on it, they had a truck here yesterday just surveying neighborhood. about a dozen lines down in my neighborhood alone. and saw national guard humvee last evening drive by. inside house is 88 and outside is 91 and its only 1030............ i dont remember my first weeks in south east asia being this bad, humidity a bitch

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE i dont remember my first weeks in south east asia being this bad, humidity a bitch[/QUOTE]

A. You were a lot younger and more resilient back then - and it was an adventure of sorts.

B. A gripin' Marine (sailor) is a happy Marine (sailor). When he quits gripin' and starts thinkin', that's when the trouble starts.

Did you get any flood water in the house or garage?

Be careful - don't overdo things. Work a little, drink some water, sit in whatever shade you can find. Let the younger folks do things.

[gmwillys]

I'm just glad you are around to gripe.

[pelago]

earliest power estimate not until 26th

[LarrBeard]

earliest power estimate not until 26th

Don't get careless refueling the generator and burn the house down. The house I grew up in was wired for 30A, 220-volts, about 6.6 KW. 7 KW should keep life livable for the next week.

[pelago]

i have a 7kw and a 3kw for back up

[gmwillys]

Are you getting tired of MREs yet?

[LarrBeard]

"M R E"; Marine Royal Eats!

I'd guess by now, since some of the water has gone down, Ira has catfish in little ponds out by the garden. Seafood delivered to the door.

Yeah, we make fun of the old guy without power. No mercy here.....

Ira, take care of yourself. You don't need to get cut up and infected from dirty water.

[gmwillys]

I was thinking he was hopefully eating like a king with the bounty of the sea at his front door. Marine Royal Eats, I like that. Another Marines staple, S.O.S.

[LarrBeard]

We haven't heard from you in a while.

Make a noise so we know you're OK ...

[pelago]

Dealing with insurance companies...........oh joy

[gmwillys]

They'll take your money, but when you need them, it takes way too long. Do you need anything?

[LarrBeard]

Dealing with insurance companies...........oh joy

"Hey guys, we've heard from Ira. He's OK. You need to bring his stuff back."

Ira, you recognize that statement - it's a joke...

It probably was easier to deal with the creepy-crawly critters that slithered out of the puddles than the insurance snakes.

We're thinkin' about you.

[pelago]

3082308330843085

i used a engine hoist to get tree off of truck,,, that is what i cooked on antenna ready for new rotator hy gain ham iv
My late father was vice pres of a major ins company at end of wwii and he started his own busiiness in the garage in fifties, and was successful and i can remember many times being awakened late at night because one of his customers had a fire and we would go there and actually move them into a hotel that my dad paid for, this happened many times, Now, not a chance in hell of a ins agent doing anything but be a phone number
will need a whole new roof over 300 tabs in yard holes in the roof, both tin porches gone and leak like a sieve, been waiting for three days for adjuster, this prick gives me any grief he will see the road real quick

[gmwillys]

Good to hear from you! How did your truck fair? Insurance isn't what it used to be.

[pelago]

believe me, am not getting a warm fuzzy feeling from the adjuster. not at all, had to pull three trees of the house, five rooms impacted by water intrusion from the roof leaks. dunno at all

[pelago]

getting back to the M38A1 for a bit, lets talk about the anatomy of the spark. I have the original spark plugs and have absolutely no idea how old they are, but the work? BUT seems like it is rather slow to kick, now the timing is not right can not get to 5degrees needed and will probably have to move the pump over one gear to achieve the timing (yuk and have to deal with a new oil pump gasket) but coil seems good, and do spark plugs get just plain old, hell i am 73 and things dont work right on me and the plugs as old as i am. but new set is 80 bucks

[LarrBeard]

do spark plugs get just plain old

Yeah, but they don't tend to wear out like we do.

M38A1 plugs are more kin to aircraft plugs that auto plugs because of the shielding on them. Folks tend to think the casing is for waterproofing, but you and I know it is for EMI suppression for the on-board radios.

The bottom end is like any other automotive plug though. The good news is that the EMI case protects the insulator and it is very unlikely to have a cracked insulator. Cross off one "wear-out" mode. The bottom end can be eyeballed to get an idea if it is worn out or not.

Jeeps are not at all demanding on plugs. If a plug looks good, it probably is. I made a quick sketch of things to look at. Years ago, every auto shop had a machine to clean plugs - it was a little abrasive blast cabinet. No more - it's easier to just replace them and really more cost effective to everyone.

Take a brass or stiff nylon tooth brush out of your gun cleaning kit and clean any loose carbon or wet fouling off the plug. With all the work you've done on the engine, you could have some crud build-up. Wet soot isn't good, dry soot is OK, grey is great.

Look at the pit around the insulator and make sure there is no crud in there (a toothpick is a good cleaner there - don't chip the ceramic). Look at the center insulator, no chips or cracks. How does the center contact look? It should have fairly sharp shoulders and edges, not rounded off like a firing pin. Last of all, how does the bridge contact (ground) look? It shouldn't be eroded or pitted.

Run a piece of emery through the contact gap and then a piece of paper to clean off any emery residue. Blow it off with air. Set the gap. My book for the F-134 says .030" for gap, but you're not doing precision machine work here.

[gmwillys]

In a pinch, on an M37, it flooded bad enough to darn near hydrolock. Didn't have the tool kit on board, but did have a cheap socket and a torch. Cut the innerdes out of the socket to allow the plug to fit through. Took the wrench and popped the plugs loose. Rolled the engine over and sprayed gas to the rafters. The torch burned off all the gas off the plugs and ran the torch across the plug holes to burn off any excess gas. The truck started just fine after putting the plugs back in. Moral of the story, Larry is correct, the plugs just don't seem to ever wear out.

[LarrBeard]

It's been almost three weeks and we've heard nothing.

I know you're up to your eyeballs trying to fix things, but make a noise again to let us know you're OK - or pop some smoke so we can find you.

[pelago]

what color?? been dealing unsuccessfully with insurance assholes, 2600.00 deductible to start and they left half of destroyed personal property off... filed claim 31 days ago and no check. to top it all off the dam gear box leaks like a sieve. gasket at the seal at the pitman arm i think. damn damn damn. gear lube ll over garage floor, got to get under neath and then clean it add more lube and wach for damn leak. have another gear box but am just pissed

[gmwillys]

Pop some violet, it will be easier to see you from afar. Insurance agents are happy to take your money, but slow to give it back. I wonder if the pitman arm shaft is grooved, causing the seal to not seal? Not the end of the world. Napa should be able to set you up with a speedy sleeve repair kit, for not a lot of cash.

Keep your head up. It will get better.

[LarrBeard]

Amazing how often we agree!...

GMWillys said pop violet smoke - I was going to say purple. It will match the color of your face when you talk to the insurance guy...

About steering gear boxes. Like you, we put things back together and had a leak around the sector shaft. We had to take things back apart and found that the shop doofus had put the old, worn, steering sector back into the gear box. There was just a little wear on the shaft that let oil seep past things.

It's good to hear from you and we're glad things are well enough under control that you can at least look at the Jeep.

[pelago]

as we type am getting a new complete steel roof, lifetime warranty, but which life mine or the roof??? okay making room for the entire gear box shaft and all, when i put it together i did not put new bushings in because manual said to check for sloppy movement and i had none, and the little ball on the end is in great shape and not worn at all, so i think the two bushings and a new sealer and good to go??? but might have to make a new gasket (not hard but time consuming because cant rush that, little tiny ball peen hammer and beat the edges out) but when i fill it up with gear lube it just comes out the shaft, now i have another complete steering box, and does the video show how to remove the bushings, am a virgin on removing bushings... and another issue creeped in had the carb rebuilt, and i did not start the thing during the storm so it had not been run for a month, started it up and all of a sudden gas came pouring out the top of the carb where the vent line attaches, and had to push accelerator 1/2 way to keep it running. this just happened, but one good thing the fella that rebuilt it stands on his work,,, and prior to this it ran good idled at about 600rpm and had plenty of get up and to, now it runs like ****

[gmwillys]

The float is stuck on the carb. The needle is not seated, and when the fuel pump fills the bowl, the fuel continues to fill until it comes out the vent. A quick fix is to tap the bowl with something blunt. A hammer will do, just be careful to not tap too hard, enough to leave a mark. Your carb guy can have it sorted out within minutes. maybe there was a bit of moisture that settled in and gummed up the float shaft.

Most military steering boxes are in fairly good shape, because of the low mileage. Now the sector shaft leaking isn't an uncommon problem. Mud, dirt, and dust has worked its way into the seal and grooved the shaft. You don't have to change out anything, just take the seal down to Napa, and they can set you up with a speedi-sleeve, Redi-sleeve. They are simple to install over your existing sector shaft, and will give the seal a smooth surface to ride on. Below is a National Bearing listing for their Resi-sleeve. It is not the correct one you need, but it gives you the idea of what to look for. The cup is the installation tool, and the other is the sleeve itself. Once you Loctite the sleeve in place, the lip is removed. Then you install your seal. Job done, and no more leak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XIjYuhxKsw

https://www.fmmotorparts.com/fmstorefront/federalmogul/en/USD/Driveline/Transfer-Case-Components/RDSLV-TransferCaseInputShaftRepairSleeve/National-Redi-sleeve/p/RNT99166#.W8jGKmeWzt4

[pelago]

carb as was suggested had a gorped up valve and float? took my friend mike 82 seconds to fix it, now it purrs. dont have a tachometer but idle maybe 600rpm. exh pretty clean no smoke at all, after it was started it blew some blck carbon out, well more than some, but it is cleaned out. damn wish i could drive it. now to tackle the steering box, and going to napa and take my spare box with me and look at the speedi sleeve, undecided, only want to to this once....

oh yeah BTW have a new steel roof, (hunter green to match the trim) both porches and all, and it rained last night and could stnd on porch and not get soaked from leaks

[LarrBeard]

oh yeah BTW have a new steel roof, (hunter green to match the trim) both porches and all, and it rained last night and could stnd on porch and not get soaked from leaks


We're glad to hear that things are settling down a bit. The crew here was really concerned about you and it's nice to hear that your biggest worry right now is a leaky steering box.

Do you have an antenna back up? We had 50+ MPH winds Saturday and I lost the support on one end of the wire and it managed to whip itself around the top of the tower. I'll need my neighbor's bucket truck to unwrap it. It's good to have neighbors with big toys like that.

[pelago]

Dropping the five element soon and new rotor

[pelago]

Went to napa and inquired about the new sleeve, whew 51 bucks

[gmwillys]

I suppose it's been a while since I bought one. Seems awfully steep. You might have to use your other steering box for now. The only folks I know of that carry a sector shaft or a complete kit is Quarter Ton and Military;

https://quartertonparts.com/product/m38a1-m170-ross-steering-box-sector-shaft-1516-807478-g758/

https://quartertonparts.com/product/m38a1-m170-ross-1516-steering-box-sector-shaft-kit-807478-g758/

[pelago]

WELL, removed the steering box, drained 8 bucks worth of gear oil out, no did not try to save it. can i feel some wobble in the sector shaft, yeah a tiny tiny bit, just does not feel that worn. inspection of the sector shaft found minuscule wear, could not detect with a fingernail???? Am thinking, maybe incorrectly that the seal failed? crappy seal?? I know i had to get a better seal than the one that kaiser offered for the front end of the transmission?? I did notice that the kit offered by 1/4ton mentioned honing before installing, and i do have a hone for wheel cylinders that would do the job. a seal from napa 54.00 plus 9.00 shipping and state tax takes it to 70 bucks and for 40 more can get a kit? For piece of mind get the kit, and be done with it? and i could use the other ross box to be the one that is repaired, however i am uncomfortable taking a socket and trying to whack out the old bushings and then gorping p the new ones installing same way. feel that a machine shop or the same guy that pressed out the drive shafts for the new "U" joints would do it, he charged a whole ten bucks to finish what i was afraid to try. I will not have a steering box that leaks, nor will i put in grease that was suggested in another forum. mentioned that the steering box leaked and four guys said use grease, i replied to them that i took two ross boxes apart and found that the grease had all gathered in a dried mess and none of it was on the bearings all had moved to the inside walls of the box and all had dried to a horrible mess that i had to chisel out. They all indicated that they felt grease was better??? i am in total disagreement with that. engineers far better than i or them designed this damn thing for heavy wt liquid gear lub not grease. and a careful inspection sees that is designed to make the fluid flow up to bearings,, with the lower bearing submerged in lube all the time. the bushings in the sector shaft have curved cuts in them for lube flow, not grease. and damn if i am gonna do this right am gonna do this right.....


\addendum.... just went to my guy and he said that he did not have the correct size for press, but recommended another shop , went there and it turned out that it was a specialty shop that builds hot rods, old school type and he said no problem and i am getting kit from 4wd guys

[gmwillys]

I am all for spending the extra money, and doing the job correctly. The honing of the bushings is a two part reason. 1st To match the sector shaft O.D. perfectly to the I.D. of the bushing. 2nd Take out any imperfections caused by installation. Quarter Ton and Military are a good group of guys, and they work hard to produce and offer the best parts around. They had the Ross kits and sector shafts made, because nobody offers the correct replacement parts.

[LarrBeard]

Heavy weight gear oil is the way to go, and you called it exactly right for the reason why!

Lots of steering gear boxes have a zerk fitting in place of the oil plug - because the seals leaked and whoever/whatever reason, the quick fix was used.

Good seals and good gaskets don't leak. We did the job right (the second try) and so far I've not had enough oil seepage from either place to even keep the outside shiny.

The cover bolts for the '48 use copper crush washers as added leak protection.

On the truck adding oil is a real task because the "remote control gear shift mechanism" (three-on-the-tree) comes right over the top of the plug.

[pelago]

interesting conversation with 4wd guy, he said hell with it use the same grease that goes in the front end , get from john deere and not use oil, that just goes against my grain, and that is complete real restoration. actually changed oil yesterday, was not bad maybe 25hours on it, and was sorta black, but warmed it up and pulled the plug. used straight 30wt to refill. changing the oil also affected the mechanical oil gauge. now after 1hr running it settled down to abt 28lbs and then hit accelerator and it goes to 40lbs. probably will be different when it is actually on the road

[LarrBeard]

A. get from john deere and not use oil,

If you were going to use a grease, the John Deere corn head grease is probably the best bet. In one of the discussions folks got pretty technical about the grease in the steering knuckles. It has to have properties of both grease and oil - I don't pretend to remember the term they used. I do remember that it is also called "knuckle pudding"

B. actually changed oil yesterday, was not bad maybe 25 hours on it, and was sorta black, but warmed it up and pulled the plug. used straight 30wt to refill.

That was another good idea. After we rebuild/rework an engine that has been sitting for a long time, there are still areas that we can't get cleaned out. Crud sticks in passages and oil galleries and most of it comes out after 10 - 20 hours of running. Did you change the filter? That would be a good idea.

Straight 30W, non-detergent is what the books call for. Multi viscosity (5W30) just won't stay in those old seals when it's at the 5W end and detergent oil cleans off stuff that needs to stay - some small amount of crud in the old seals does help keep things where they belong.

Even the capillary tube for the oil gauge gets cleaned out after a bit. 28 PSI at idle and 40 PSI run is really nice. That engine sounds tight. You should be good until it's time to put it away next fall.

[pelago]

Has anyone ever drained the oil out, then filled with kerosene and using starter only turned engine over to help eliminate built up crud. years ago, YEARS ago i bought a 1935 ford pick up from a farmer in ellison bay wisconsin for 40.00 us dollars, it was still in use on the farm and ran good, burnt oil like craxy. when i drove it home from ellison bay to chicago if you looked down route 83 you could see a blue cloud coming... had to stop at gas stations and get waste oil to fill crankcase up, sometimes damn starter would hang up and i would have to crawl underneath, and pull starter and push the gear back in,, I was doing this one time at a restuarant and this old guy came over and asked it i had a problem and i told him and he said "listen younger, all you have to do is put the truck in first gear and push i backwards, damn been pulling the starter all day. then i had a flat, not spare to speak of, another farmer came by on his tractor and offered to help, he pulled tire, we went back to his farm (right there) and pulled tube, fixed it and put it back on truck. then he asked i i wanted a job, said sure, so i bailed hay, and stacked it in the barn for three days. he paid me 50.00 dollars and fed me for three days. THIS IS OLD SCHOOL USA, WHERE PEOPLE HELPED EACH OTHER AND IT WAS GREAT....

Any way got home and flushed the engine with kerosene, had to do it three times to get it to drain clear kero. at 15 cents a gallon wth, right.. so i drove it like that for a while, then i started building a 1949 flathead to go in, mallory dual point ignition, edelbrock finned heads, jahns racing pistons, valve job, ground crank new bearings. new oil pump and a modest cam, but get this a edelbrock 3X2barreled carbs, we put it in the 35 and hold flathead batman did it go,,, also dual exh. it was 1950 **** hot pickemup

[gmwillys]

As long as you are happy with the finished product, that's all that matters.

I bet you would like to have '50 flathead powered pick up now.

[LarrBeard]

Yeah, I’ve done a couple of those things. "Been there, done that - you wanna' see the scar?"

I’ve had at least one engine (not a Jeep this time – maybe a Dodge) that had sat for a long enough time that the oil came out more like syrup than oil – real thick and unbelievably nasty. I pulled the plugs, put in a gallon of diesel or kerosene and cranked it until the battery started to sag a bit. I put the battery on the charger, drained the kerosene (nasty stuff) and just let it sit for a couple of hours.

I added another gallon of kerosene, repeated the process and put fresh oil in it. It seemed to be OK as I remember – no big smoke clouds or knocks.

The last L-134 engine I had in the ’48 was worn very badly – I really did leave a cloud of smoke behind me. (Have you noticed - that’s something you don’t see anymore on a regular basis)? One of the discount gas stations had a reclaimed oil pump. Reclaimed oil was about 20-cents a quart and when the oil pressure gauge would start to droop I would pull up to the oil pump and put 60-cents worth of oil directly into the filler tube. I found the F-134 I have now laying in a barnyard and after I installed it, I left that L-134 at the gate of the local junkyard one night. And, yeah - I wish I had that engine back... .

Around 1972 my boss had a ’59 Pontiac that he cared for meticulously. Every 2001 miles it would be overdue for an oil change – he was that kind of guy – an engineer’s engineer. I stopped by one day to see him and he had just finished an oil change. There was a gallon milk carton (remember waxed paper milk cartons?) full of warm oil sitting in the driveway. I asked him if I could have it and he said “OK”. I immediately poured about half of it into the Jeep and he went spastic.

“That’s used oil!” he spluttered. My reply: “That’s OK , it won’t be in there all that long anyway”.

We did what we needed to do to get by back then.

[pelago]

YUP, WE DID WHAT WE DID, SOMETIME WILL HAVE TO TELL THE STORY OF MEETING THE CHICAGO VICE LORDS IN FOREST PRESERVE WHILE IN THE PICK UP. AND MY BUDDY THOUGHT THEY ONLY WERE FIRING BLANKS....SUMMER OF 1962
Damn wish i had those old cars now, but i am keeping the spare f 134 i have.....

[gmwillys]

As a side project, we have a '65 Galaxy 500 4 door. Today it was rolled around from the back yard to the drive way. When we picked it up last winter, the engine was stuck tight. Using some garage logic, and barn yard engineering, she turns free now. The original carb is seized tight, even after applying heat, and soaking in PB Blaster. The owner gave the go ahead to order an aftermarket carb, (eBay special Chinese I'm sure). The engine oil doesn't look bad, and the large amounts of trans fluid and penetrating oil didn't drain past the Piston rings. That's good news. After the engine does fire, I will dump in a quart of kerosene in to the oil. Then run the engine for 10 minutes at idle, then dump. The oil that will be dumped in will be some cheap dime store oil, then the process will be repeated until I'm satisfied that the engine is clean.

[pelago]

As a side project, we have a '65 Galaxy 500 4 door. Today it was rolled around from the back yard to the drive way. When we picked it up last winter, the engine was stuck tight. Using some garage logic, and barn yard engineering, she turns free now. The original carb is seized tight, even after applying heat, and soaking in PB Blaster. The owner gave the go ahead to order an aftermarket carb, (eBay special Chinese I'm sure). The engine oil doesn't look bad, and the large amounts of trans fluid and penetrating oil didn't drain past the Piston rings. That's good news. After the engine does fire, I will dump in a quart of kerosene in to the oil. Then run the engine for 10 minutes at idle, then dump. The oil that will be dumped in will be some cheap dime store oil, then the process will be repeated until I'm satisfied that the engine is clean.

YEAH, OLD SCHOOL, MAY BE OLD BUT IT WORKS AND HAVE USED DIESEL, SOME WHAT CHEAPER. Have my extra f134 full to the rim with oil. just sitting there, letting it do its thing until the first one is drivable. saw a engine stand for 70.00 bucks at the local napa store. thinking of getting it these damn things are heavy, heavy, heavy. my plan is to do a complete rebuild of this motor, crank outwards, bearings, rings (pistons if needed) new hardened seats and new valves...... but this one will be painted fire engine red

[gmwillys]

Go to a Harbor freight for the engine stand. Don't buy the cheapest one for $49.00, it is good for 1,000 lbs, but is not real steady when turning the engine bottom side up. The 2,000 lbs is under $100.00, but it folds up for storage. It has two legs that makes it much more stable. Another place to check would be the pawn shops. Usually people buy them, and use them once, then they are just in the way. They go cheap second hand. At one time I had four engine stands, two with big block Chryslers, and two with 727 automatic transmissions bolted up for service. I bought them from garage sales and pawn shops. When we moved, I sold them all, along with all the engines and parts.

[pelago]

Never have used a engine stand. anyway. maybe new issue, minor, but may be? temp sending unit, got one of those nifty laser temp gauges and it reads 165degrees everywhere, and that is the thermostat, but when i alligator clip the new gauge it reads over 200?? not sure i know all that i need to know of this, know that the actual thing is a variable resistor and thats about it but wonder if original 24vdc sending unit is kaput3160

this is close to fifty bucks

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE ...not sure i know all that i need to know of this, know that the actual thing is a variable resistor 3160[/ATTACH]

I've learned more than I want to know about the various Jeep temperature sensors, 6-volt and 12-volt versions - but I've not dabbled with the 24-volt sensors.

You are right, it is a resistor - actually a thermistor. The hotter it gets, the lower its' resistance.

Take the most reliable instrument for Jeep work - your Simpson 260 - and read its resistance cold. Depending on how cold, it should be about 100-ohms or so. Start the engine and watch the resistance as the engine heats up. On the F-134 sensors for 12-volt systems, it goes to about 33 ohms at 165 degrees and 15 ohms at 212.

If it's shorted (low resistance at cold), not much that you can do about that but replace it. If it moves in the right direction, just not reading right, you can set the 165-degree point with some resistors that can be hidden somewhere.

I have found that the Simpson 260 is the most reliable meter to use on old Jeeps. The Fluke 77 is just too good. It reads the spikes and noise and gives erratic or weird reading voltage readings sometimes. I was measuring my temperature sensor with the Fluke last week and I got two different readings depending on red lead/black lead to contact connection (33 vs 45 ohms). The 260 said 33 ohms (+/- just a little) regardless of lead polarity. I would suspect some dissimilar metal issues with cast iron, brass, copper and water causes the Fluke to not understand what I want it to read.

We'll figure this out ...

[pelago]

well the critter is warm now, so will wait until tomorrow and graph the resistance center probe to ground.. and also at same time write down the temp from the nifty laser temp gauge. but the engine runs at 165 that is the thermostat that is in it. and i can put my hand on the head at the 4th cylinder and the temp sensor says 165, i mean its not comfortable but not so hot you cant do it, just runs cool, of course no load. but seems the more it runs the better it runs. and been a long time since i had to manually choke a motor... but hit throttle couple of times, close the choke, and hit starter and she starts right up, then slowly release the choke and it settles down and idles pure oh yeah my first body part showed up fed X it is the complete tool box and lid,,, only one thing wrong it looks too new

[pelago]

can feel no residual heat in the darn thing but it is reading 2.8K ???? 52 degrees out and been off for over an hour?

[gmwillys]

I concur on the Fluke 77 being too sensitive. We had a speedometer some years back on a Stryker that would not pick up the signal from the output speed sensor. When checking the signal with a Fluke, you would see the sensor picking up and dropping the tooth, at both the bulk head connector and at the speedometer. The tech slaved in the harnesses from the speedo to the bulkhead, but could not from the bulk head to the pack. We sat there and brainstormed for a while and decided to pay a visit to the electronic sights folks to see if the had an oscilloscope. They rummaged through a storage closet and found one that was covered in dust. We took it back to the shop and hooked it up. The scope showed that we were in fact seeing the square wave, but the corners of the wave were really fuzzy. This was enough interference that the gauge was not picking up anything. To verify the thought, we ground hopped the power pack from another vehicle to the effected vehicle's systems. The speedometer worked as desired.

The moral of the story, proven technology such as the Simpson meter or an old dusty oscilloscope can out preform modern digital technology.

In regards to your water temp gauge conundrum, 2.8k is way to high. LarrBeard is correct that the ohms should be around 100 ohms at cold, and around 30 ohms at operating temp.

[LarrBeard]

In regards to your water temp gauge conundrum, 2.8k is way to high

I don't know the gauge scheme on the M38A1. I am assuming that as the engine gets hotter, the sensor resistance goes lower, more current flows through the gauge and the needle goes upscale toward 200+ degrees. I also am assuming that the gauge is still a bimetal thermal gauge.

Now that the engine is cool, clip lead the sensor back in place and see what it reads. If our guess about how things work is correct, the needle should hardly move at all.

2.8K seems high for a cold sensor, but again, this is a 24-volt system and we'll learn something from this experiment. AT least now we know that there is not an internal short in the sensor that pegs the gauge.

In the '48, we managed to damage the oil pressure gauge. Someone (?), probably the shop goat, dinged up the oil pressure sender and shorted the gauge to ground. (You know, that goat that walks through the shop at night and takes things off benches, eats up pans full of screws and little parts and generally causes havoc). That short warped the gauge innards - it reads about 20 PSI with the engine off and 50+ PSI with oil pressure on the engine. That's a project this winter.

If the sensor lead to the gauge was grounded, the gauge could have been damaged.

[pelago]

Time *************0800 0815 0830 0845 0900
simpson*********** 2.8k 1.8k 800 800 800
centech************ 63d 104d 157d 157d 157d

the laser probe was sighted in at the casting right next to the temp sending unit
??????????????????

AM LETTING IT COOL DOWN TO AIR TEMP THEN READ THE ACTUAL NEW GAUGE

[LarrBeard]

That's good data. The cold to hot ratio is about 3:1, which looks about right for a ratio. On the sensor that I am adapting for the '48, cold is about 100 ohms and 165-degrees is 33 ohms; close to 3:1.

What does the gauge read with the cold sensor connected?

Do you have a new gauge to check things with?

The answer may be a series resistor to cut current back when the sensor is hot.

[pelago]

GAUGE IS ZERO WITH BLOCK AT 57D AMBIENT, resistance center tap to gnd 2.8k gauge new out of box or a new senser

[LarrBeard]

GAUGE IS ZERO WITH BLOCK AT 57D AMBIENT, resistance center tap to gnd 2.8k gauge new out of box or a new senser

OK , just one more test.

The next time you run the beast, measure the sensor resistance just as the gauge passes by 165 degrees.

We know that the sensor measures 800-ohms at 157 degrees, the stable block/engine temperature. We need to add resistance to shift that 800-ohms to whatever the gauge wants to indicate 165-degrees.

I think we will need to add some series resistance.

I have a suspicion that nothing is really bad - just that after all these years and with after market parts - things just don't match like they did in 1953. The other thing I have had to keep in mind is that I try to get modern lab precision out of things that never were that precise.

On the '48, I've decided to settle for a gauge that swings in the correct direction (cold to the left, hot to the right) and sits at 165 with the engine at running temperature. If it gets hotter that that, I don't care exactly how hot it is, I just want to know that it's getting too hot.

[gmwillys]

I have a correction to make on the Harbor Freight 2,000 lbs. engine folding stand. It is on sale for $130.00, and not around $100, as I first reported.

If the original harness is being used, you may want to check to see if there is an issue with the wire itself.

[pelago]

damn damn double damn
New issue, ROSS steering. It seems (as explained to me by 4wd guys) that somehow in its history one of the m38a1 had in fact had a m38 ross box installed in it, as explained to me that was not a big deal as long as the worm gear matched the box. so like a dumb **** i took the cleaned ross steering box to have new bushings put it, no big deal and they did HOWEVER THE SECTOR SHAFT PROVIDED DOES NOT FIT..... there is the rub, and after talking to 4wd guys this is how it happened many m38a1's sent to national guard units and they (not all) had a bastardized steering shaft and box from m38 vice m38a1 integral parts... in the photo one can see the difference in the sector shafts, one (larger) is m38a1 the other is m38. my solution since i already have 200 bucks into this event is to use the m38a1 ross box the replacement sector shaft with new seal, and hopefyully sell the m38 box advertised with new bushings and new seals?? he said he would not take less than 200.00 for it, and there is no way to combine two to get one the worm gear has to match the particular sector shaft
sheeeeeeeesh will it ever end3162

[pelago]

also, just what keeps the lubrication in on the big end of the worm gear, no seals in the drawings submitted by kaiser, surely there has to be a seal, oil will get past the bearings and get out of the thing, there is no seal listed to go in to the coupler that goes over the shims?? not doing this again

[gmwillys]

I made the mistake of hanging a complete steering column assembly upside down. Went back into the shed a week later to find a puddle of gear dope on the floor. I didn't want to hang it up by the near perfect steering wheel, so hung it up by the pitman arm. The lube is thick enough to stay down into the gear box.

If you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck at all. $200 bucks is a fair price on a revamped A1 box. Shouldn't hang around long.

[LarrBeard]

they (not all) had a bastardized steering shaft and box from m38 vice m38a1 integral parts... in the photo one can see the difference in the sector shafts, one (larger) is m38a1 the other is m38.
sheeeeeeeesh will it ever end3162

Ira:

Posts like this show why zillions of folks are following your project. You are the professor for a post-graduate course in Jeep renovation. You probably just saved four or five folks from wandering into the same problem.

In an almost humorous way, this goes back to my First Two Rules of Jeep:

Rule 1. What you see is what you have. Don't blindly trust what is written somewhere.

Rule 2. Never say "Willys-Overland never did XXXXXXX". The corollary is "Never say 'No one would do that..." ".

They would, and they did - and here is the proof.

Go work on an antenna for a while.

[pelago]

thanks, for that compliment. This a "trying" but enjoyable pursuit!! am waiting for a seal for the sector shaft, then will tackle the "SEAL??' on the steering wheel shaft/worm gear assembly. if you lube it according to instructions (level with fill hole) you are actually even with the top bearing of the shaft. there is no way (i believe) that 140wt gear oil will NOT leak?
again it was recommended that i use the john deer grease/fluid that goes in the knuckle. that stuff requires heat to liquefy, this ross box only gets heat ambient from the exhaust. I just done believe in cold weather that it will quickly turn to fluid in cold weather?? might be wrong but want to be sure
316331643165

[pelago]

yes, there is a seal,,, supposed to go under the three bolt shroud with the shims?? we shall see
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/nos-upper-steering-gear-box-tube-worm-oil-seal-fits-50-66-m38-m38a1

[gmwillys]

yes, there is a seal,,, supposed to go under the three bolt shroud with the shims?? we shall see
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/nos-upper-steering-gear-box-tube-worm-oil-seal-fits-50-66-m38-m38a1

It would have to go under the three bolt cover, with all the shims. My apologies for the earlier bad intel. After thinking about it, the oil came out around the horn wire, and not through the steering shaft.

In your defense, unless you had the M38 steering box and a M38A1 box next to each other, you wouldn't have known the difference. Both would have been painted the same shade of O.D., so unless you were to measure shafts, the dogs of the sector, you wouldn't have known. High price of learning.

[pelago]

"High price of learning. " yupper

[pelago]

received, new passenger floor, new tool box with lid, new right front side panel, new support inside piece. quite frankly all this looks rather intimidating, correction HUGELY INTIMIDATING.

[gmwillys]

If a simpleton like me can do it, so can you. The hardest part will be getting the old inner support removed. There are quite a few spot welds to drill. When I get back in the office, I'll post you a link to a spot weld cutter that really helps speed up the process. Sharpen up your chisels, and stock up on vise grips. A word of advice, don't scrap any piece, i.e. the tool box, because you may be able to fix the rust over time, and use it on the second body. Also, little pieces of original steel helps to have around to fix small spots.
How are the hat channels under the floor?

[LarrBeard]

I think it was old Ben Franklin that said something to the effect "Experience keeps a dear school, but a fool will learn in no other".

I am an alumnus of Dear School.

[pelago]

"How are the hat channels under the floor?" ONE WORD, DISMAL, NEED TO REPLACE THEM ALL
after inspecting all of the pieces i received, have to say am quite impressed with what i have seen, now what do i know about stuff like this actuall nothing my last time doing something like this was to help a friend replace a fender on his cherry 58 ford, right front fender got whacked when a woman ran a light. thats it. These pieces all look well constructed, and sturdy 30 gauge steel. will take and post some pictures of the body to be restored


31873188318931903191

[pelago]

CONTINUATION OF POST AND PHOTOS, did not include the tailgate nor the back deck which is in bad shape but can replace completely, (expensive ) but what the hell in for a penny in for a pound

319531963197

[gmwillys]

I have used the pieces from Kaiser Willys, and they are really nice to work with. As an added bonus, they are made in the states. Your body isn't that bad really. I fabricated my own hat channel from channel stock, heating and bending to match. I added pipe where the body mounts went through to add strength, and to eliminate the white oak stiffeners, to prevent rot. The ends at the body sides were tapered to match the originals. Now they have pre-bent sections that are pretty descent. We went to a military vehicle show and a gentleman had a reproduction tool box front panel for $10.00. That saved me from having to completely tear out the tool box. While the passenger floor board was cut out, I stripped all the paint from the inside of the tool box and painted it. Then the only other piece needed was the lid.

[gmwillys]

As promised, here is a link to the spot weld cutters; https://www.woodwardfab.com/?s=spot+weld+cutter&search=Search
This was the pictures from when the steel work was completed and a final picture;

[pelago]

3223

had to put this in here this has been a bane to my efforts for too long, new bushings, new sector shaft, new seals and correct shims, moves freely, NO LEAKS, filled with gear lube and correctly done


posted this on another jeep site and waiting to get slammed for not using grease
"Ross M38A1steering box, repaired, completed, and no leaks filled with correct lubricant 140wt gear oil, sorry guys grease is not correct you may be happy with it but when and if you take it apart you will find that the grease is no where near the bearings it has evacuated. Was recommended that the same gear lube used in knuckel be used but that is also incorrect that needs heat to turn to luquid, this thing needs liquid to work. but that is only my humble opionion (and the engineers at willys)"

[LarrBeard]

See, now you're an authority. People will ask you how to rebuild Ross steering boxes now!

[gmwillys]

Good deal. Now on to the body work!

[pelago]

It just dawned on me.. Damn the frame, motor, all that stuff. Hell its done. steering in, need to asdjust the drag link and someone showed a tool for that adj. and said snap on had it sure wish had a part number. Now to find a spot in driveway and move it out of garage. get a good tarp and cover her up good!! could even put the fenders on and attach to the front housing for the radiator and lay hood on it for more protection. put the rebuilt ross back in NO FREAKIN LEAKS!!. Was standing in the garage and looking at it and said "holy crappers batman your done with this part"
may 28 2016 started removing motor.....
"
well, the darn thing is out

1947 WILLYS and each and every bolt was covered and locked up with 70yr old rustAttachment 1180[ATTACH=CONFIG]1180[]
plan is to get to frame, sand blast paint and do frame up restoration
was pleasantly surprised to take vlve cover off and find it pretty clean "

Views: 108,183 damn 108thousand hits on this

[gmwillys]

I have a socket for the drag link, but a modified flat washer and a pair of vise grips will work. I'll look to see what the model number for the socket is and let you know .

108,000 hits, no surprise. Your content is interesting and informing, so we all check a few times a day for updates. We did miss the daily updates while you were off the radar fighting mother nature.

[pelago]

damn, looks smaller outside dont it...

3224

[gmwillys]

Looks good. Now, I remember what I was going to look for all day today. The drag link socket.

[LarrBeard]

Yeah, but everything you've touched looks fan-dern-tastic!

At one of the local parades, I saw an old Allis-Chalmers tractor with an exhaust manifold that looked really fantastic. I asked the guy about it and he said that he found a shop to give it a gray ceramic coating that resists heat to over 1200 degrees, no rust at all.

Maybe in a year or so I'll look that guy up and have him do the manifold on the '48.

[gmwillys]

The socket is as follows;

https://store.snapon.com/Drag-Link-Industrial-1-2-Drive-3-4-Blade-Width-Drag-Link-Socket-P642829.aspx

Check into Cerakote. Your local firearms dealer can set you up with a high temp coating.

https://www.cerakotehightemp.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI747gqaO93gIVhcDACh1_lAjxEAAYASA AEgLr__D_BwE

[LarrBeard]

You Wrote:

"Check into Cerakote. Your local firearms dealer can set you up with a high temp coating."

I showed my local gun decorator (a really fantastic custom gun finisher - he will paint a Glock Teal Blue or Glow Pink {really} to match the Vera Bradley purse for the ladies ...) but he wanted nothing to do with an exhaust manifold. He didn't have an oven big enough to hold it.

But, he did build me a beautiful custom Match AR; Navy SCPO emblem, "SENIOR CHIEF" on the stock and very subtle stars and stripes on the receiver.

The ceramic coating guy is only about a half-hour down the road from here, so it's not that big a deal to get it there - just the job of taking it off.

Ira's chassis work on the M38A1 looks great.. He gets his chipping, painting and mechanic's rating - now he goes to Sheet Metal 400 class.

[gmwillys]

Cerakoting a pistol to match a Vera Bradley purse could get expensive. Being that I spend equal amounts on Heep parts/time to new purses, then the pistol would have to match per pattern changes....every six months. It's hard enough to find the specific wallet to match. Look at the money Pelago saves being single. His puppy doesn't require all these extras.

[pelago]

but there are so so many beautiful women out there3225

[pelago]

got my last piece of body work in and it is the right rear fender well, impressive, a lot of hand work and looks great

HOPEFULLY ALL I WILL NEED IS THE DECK AND THE TAILGATE, but that is later

[gmwillys]

I think we need to back up the train a bit. Tailgate? I assume you mean the back panel, because a A1 didn't have a tailgate. The passenger side panel you showed last week was also for a CJ, but I figured that you were using the lower part to repair under the shore power indent. I would imagine that the CJ panel will follow the same curl under as the A1, but I do not know that for certain. I'm probably jumping to conclusions, but we don't want you to get knee deep into the body, after doing such a meticulous job on the mechanical portion of the build.

[pelago]

tailgate shorter than entire back panel section.. i guess ur right about the side panel the panel actually is short of the top curl on the side panels, (am guessing) but the way it is constructed is to cut the side panel clear and the new one slides under the cut and matches up and then welded and body putty in the side. it goes all the way up the cut to the seam where the thing is welded, cut that away and clear up the welds and then the new piece fits into the front housing where the seam is it is pretty heavy built. and the shore power indent will have to cut the old one out and patch it in and of course its the only one out there for sale...... but all in all the body parts are well built, go the wheel well and it is heavy built lots of work went into that, but replace heck of a lot better than piecing a whole bunch of pieces into the rusty wheel well....

3226

they offer two back decks, one with the piece that extends from side to side where all the other stuff is welded to it, and it is also the back of the tool just not sure which one i will get or need and both are pricey big time,,, going to be a grand either way you look at it for both pieces back panel section and deck

box3227 3228

[gmwillys]

The side panel for a CJ, I don't think that the door opening has the deep recess like the A1 had. The picture included is of the lower section replacement panel. I had to add a piece above the panel where the side stiffener mounts.

How bad is the floor, that you want to scrap the whole thing?

[pelago]

PRETTY DAMN THIN, AND LOTS LOTS OF HOLES, way too many to try to fix.. one of the deck pieces requires additonal $75.00 to ship and that is the one with the piece that runs athwart side to side and. the other one is free, but not at that point got to expose the piece on there it looks pretty good

[gmwillys]

If your riser is descent, save the $75.00 and apply it to something else.

When I did the body work on the A1, the budget was fairly thin. We scowered the country side and came up with one doner for the driver's side floor board, with some various pieces to save for future use. A second body was found that yeilded more sheet metal pieces. The only parts purchased was the fuel tank well, the passenger floor board, the tool box front panel, and the tool box lid. Everything else was fabricated from bulk stock or scavenged from the two bodies. We did find a third complete A1 that was too good to cut up. All in all, there was enough material saved to actually build three complete bodies, two frames and axles. The only thing lacking for the extra heeps were the drive trains and seats.

[pelago]

pretty thing budget, i can relate to that.....
the last two pieces that i will need will be close to a grand. the entire back end, is full of major holes and also dented, but cutting it out at the weld seams and removing the spot welds on the ramaining is probably the way to go. the deck area is the same. got as tarp on the frame/motor in time for some rain, but think i want to cover the rest up with a brand new tarp. used older one over motor and wheel, but dont want to take chances on any thing hurting what is done.
new topic freakin snap on tools, they charged my credit card FIVE times for one piece, then when i call snap on they say contact your bank, told them it was not bank that sent the bills to the bank but snap on. I made myself so obnoxious to snap on that they called me last night and had a 3 way conversation with snap on/bank/me and they acknowledged it was a snap on screw up. if you buy from snap on at their website be cautious it dont work

[gmwillys]

If the sheet metal isn't completely rotten, a few holes should be a lot easier to fix. Find a chunk of copper to act as a backer, then the metal will be less likely to warp. A little more time spent fixing your original metal would save you a bunch of money. I can understand the floor, because they tend to get thin.

For future reference, look up your local Snap On dealer. They are independent owners, so they rely on your business. Check with your local auto shops to find out when the tool truck is scheduled to stop by.

[pelago]

Body is now in the garage and starting to remove spot welds on right side right at junction of fender to firewall. to remove em got to see em so grind a bit the counter punch and drill em out then separate

[51 CJ3]

For future reference, look up your local Snap On dealer. They are independent owners, so they rely on your business. Check with your local auto shops to find out when the tool truck is scheduled to stop by.

X2. If I think what I want may not be on the truck I send the driver a text so he can get it ordered. Additionally, I don’t know of a place locally that calibtates torque wrenches so I get that done through the truck as well.

As a side note I will add that, even though the tool quality has declined some over the years, Craftsman has the better warranty. I hope that hasn’t changed with Sears going under. Snap On would never replace a rusty broken tool found in a ditch but Sears would.

[pelago]

who ever the individual was that welded the body on this jeep must have been happy in his work or got paid by the spot weld.. my way of doing this is first you got to find them, then mark them, then punch, then drill, then separate3247 3248 3249 Then where you are positive that all the spot welds are exposed and popped you try to separate and lo and behold there are more welds....

from the curve of the passenger side to the back deck there were 25 spot welds. the attachment at the front of the fender repair 18 in 10 linear inches....
am in the process of roughing out the replacement floor and the supports, when i am comfortable with the fit, will magic mark the final cut,,,, want enough steel to weld repair. but since have never done this before am FREAKIN TERRIFIED

[gmwillys]

Measure, trim shy of your line,fit the panel, then triple check the fitment on all sides. Clamp the piece in place and check it over again. Time taken now will ensure that everything will fall into place. Yes, they were proud of their use of spot welds.

Snap On quality has fallen off dramatically. I see that Craftsman was bought out by Lowe's, so it will remain to be seen if they are as good as Seats was about their warranty.

[pelago]

first issue on body... this dam thing, it is so welded in that to replace it is going to be a first class bitch the one in there is just rusted out






3251

[gmwillys]

Is just the lower section where the floor and side panels come in contact rusted out? I just replaced the lower half, (6 to 8"). You are right, the top of that upright is a bitch. Everything hinges on the support being right. There are a stupid amount of spot welds binding from every direction.

[pelago]

" There are a stupid amount of spot welds binding from every direction" yupper. will have to customize the long one,,, short one just too short to replace the rusted section UGH

[gmwillys]

Since I used an salvaged upright, I put it in the chop saw and cut off what I needed to replace the cancer eaten portion. Then I didn't need to disturb the entire piece. I had to cut out the sheet metal on the outside to finish the weld all the way around. After blending in the weld, if I didn't tell you, you wouldn't have known where the repair was made. The pictures included start off with the rotten upright, then the last three are after the repair, and sheet metal being affixed to the outside.

[pelago]

FOR ME, I think the floor goes in at least temporarily to get correct measurment fo support strut then bastardize the one i have to fit?? got a lot of floor removed, extre wide cuts to get down to nitty gritty of good fit

[gmwillys]

I did it both ways on the one I did. The driver's side had the floor permenantly in first, then the passenger side the floor was fitted but removed to weld in the support.

You got this handled. Nothing to fear.

[pelago]

DAMN, MIGHT HAVE PAINTED MYSELF INTO A CORNER HERE... I assumed i could get what body parts needed, i know when you assume you make a *** out u and me. but anyway am fitting int pieces and parts and now have a dilema
what goes in the hole?? from repair passenger side to good drivers side whole lot of empty space and dam if i can not get a diagram to see what panels (outline) i am missing and damned if i have skills to make any one photo would be from inside looking down, one from ground looking up and another showing one of my repaired pieces in to alighn the pasenger side repair piece and i added the piece kaiser sells for over trans mission, but i dont see how it goes in??
3269327032713272

[gmwillys]

There is a panel you are missing ties into the top panel you have in place, (where the starter button is affixed). The lower section fills the remainder of the hole sans the transmission top cover. Essentially there are three pieces in total for the center. With the three pieces removed, it made engine and transmission access easy. This also allows the body to be removed without removing the steering wheel. I'll look around to see if there are any reproductions or descent used ones are available.

There is also a cover that covers the passenger floor toe board. This one allows access to the heater core if equiped from the top side. I'll get you some pictures early in the AM.

[pelago]

pictures early in the AM. thanks trying to describe what i need to mike at kaiser not easy considering he deals with all of the jeeps even sent a photo to him

[gmwillys]

I fouled up my explanation. I fixed it so it makes more sense.

I found one lower transmission cover on eBay. It is an NOS, and $125.00. They are proud of them. While looking, there was one heater core inspection cover for $9.99.

[pelago]

Got this coming.....3273


its one hell of a start in filling that hole up

[gmwillys]

That's what you needed. Did Mike have one?

[LarrBeard]

The good news is that the piece fills a lot of the hole at one time...

[pelago]

no he wanted me to buy a whole new floor at 1000.00

[gmwillys]

$1,000 is a bit much on an entire floor. You did well. I thought I had more pictures of the covers, but no. This one will give you the general idea.

[gmwillys]

I forgot I had pictures from the M38 that I had. The layout is much the same as the A1. The sides of the lower cover was glassed over, so the bolt holes were not visible. That was the strange part of this M38. The floors were not in bad condition, but there was a thick layer of fiberglass slathered over the whole floor. I did notice that I had the master cylinder cover turned the wrong direction. The flat edge is supposed to be against the edge of the throttle mount bulge. The last picture was a make a like aftermarket body. It was a bastardization of a CJ and a M38, but it did have the military style trans cover.

[pelago]

and will still need this, seen lots of different prices on same item3289


and my gas tank area quite rough but also seen some good prices on replacements for that, getting happier with the floor section working it in. right rear fender well going to be a challenge whole lot of welds

[gmwillys]

The fuel tank well was worth the money paid. There are a lot of ridges that are tough to replicate. Shopping around pays dividends, but I'm cheap. I hate spending too much on just about everything.

[pelago]

i also am a cheap sob, but just dont have the skills to fabricate, and the gas tank recess is pretty bad, and looks like a straight forward job to remove and replace (more spot welds)

[gmwillys]

The fuel tank well is the easiest piece od sheet metal to replace.

[pelago]

like the pictures, good example to follow................

[pelago]

32933294329532963297


This literally took all day to get out, man the spot welds all over the place, and at same time was able to remove the entire front lip of the back deck area, so that removing the rest a bit easier, now to tackle the right rear fender well, more damn spot welds, sure wish i knew what the hell i was doing

[gmwillys]

Looks good to me. You are not giving yourself enough credit. Do you have a chunk of copper to place in back of where you are going to weld? If not, I have an extra piece you can have.

[LarrBeard]

That's cleaning up nicely. Looks like you are doing all the right things.

[pelago]

not sure i understand the copper??, after selective sand blasting then comes welding? but do not understand the copper or why

[gmwillys]

The chunk of copper acts as a heat distributor, plus the weld won't stick to it. If you have to fill a hole, place the copper behind the hole, and weld away. The copper will help your welds look like a professional welded them.

[pelago]

ooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ". If you have to fill a hole, place the copper behind the hole, and weld away. The copper will help your welds look like a professional welded them. " lots of little holes to fill!!!.. it is too bad there is no way to get a history of these things, history as is who owned it and what did they do with it. Five different colors of paint. Olive, red, yellow, black and then a bilious color of blue?? yellow forest fire stuff?? green USA? red, fire again?? black, have no idea, but the blue almost metal flake?? no one absolutely no one sanded anything just slapped paint on it, dirt, grime, grease, mud hell they just painted over it. might have helped some to keep rust down, hell if i know. all i know is when this rolls down drive it will be primer over sandblasted metal in the white and olive

[gmwillys]

On the A1 we had, it was three layers of olive. The motor pool would just slap another layer on top of the other. Red was most likely was for a fire department after being discharged from service. The yellow was likely Civil Defense after the fire department used it. Black was probably the first civilian owner for who knows what reason. The nylon brushes I use are good for eating off one layer of paint if careful. You might be able to get the i.d. number or bumper number. It would be interesting to see if the fire department name was painted on the hood. Then you could contact the department. They keep really good records on their equipment, plus might have photos of your Jeep while in service. Too bad the government keeps crap for records. To this day, we have no idea on what has been done out in the field.

I'll get a picture of the copper chunk I'm going to send your way. Private message me your address, and I'll get it out to you this week.

[pelago]

GREAT, ALL I HAVE FOUND IS COPPER FLASHING?? NOT GOOD TO TRY THAT WOULD THINK JUST TOO DAMN THIN.
Got all kinds of little holes that need to be filled and just do not want to use "bondo" can use that for pinholes and such but 1/4 inch old bolt holes need steel, sent the address. while waiting for pieces and parts been doing busy work, such as loosening every nut on the firewall, removing, cleaning and putting a tiny dab of grease and putting back in. have two bodies and both have different covers for batteries, the one i selected has the kind that has multiple twist posts holding the cover down, but dont have the cover,,, however have a great cover on the other one that has two holders one on each end. am converting the restoration projedt to utilize that cover this is what i am using
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/560x560/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/l/blid-snap.jpg

[gmwillys]

The copper will do you just fine. The handle makes it nice to keep from burning your hand. If you don't have a helper, it is big enough to use a clamp to hold in place. I'll it in the mail tomorrow afternoon. Should be at your place Monday at your mail box.

There was two veriations of battery covers, (early and later). Right this moment I can't think of which one was which. Use what you got, and everything will be OK.

[pelago]

"Right this moment I can't think of which one was which. Use what you got, and everything will be ok" been test fitting and the one that i am using seems to fit quite well in fact was so happy with the fit that i cut off the quick lock screws, all 6 of them and those holes will get filled in and i have all the hardware to refit the lid on the hull... bout time something fell into place

[gmwillys]

Your A1 body is from '52 - '53, with the thumb screws. As said earlier, the vast majority of the A1s produced were the style you are installing.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11562&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

[pelago]

ANOTHER PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED. Right rear fender well is bad shape, just too much to try to patch up so i ordered and received a new one, now to do this the entire well has to come out, but the exterior body has again spot welds and it has additional supports. this going to be a challenge. the union between the rear deck and the fender well not that big a issue in as much as both the rear deck and the fender well itself are going. but to remove the fender well have to be careful of the support bracket inside it. what do you all reckon 100 spot welds along the top where the well meets the outer body???

331433153316

[pelago]

Your A1 body is from '52 - '53, with the thumb screws. As said earlier, the vast majority of the A1s produced were the style you are installing.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11562&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

well the thing is ready to go on and damn if it dont fit real good.... the attachements are all ready need to install four sheet metal screws and its done, been straightening out the lip seems to have been beat up quite a bit but straightening it all out as i go

is there a TM that covers the body, can not access that stuff on the other site

[gmwillys]

I don't recall seeing a TM on just the body. There are a sh*t load of spot welds. They must have gotten paid by the weld when the body was produced. Sounds like things are coming together alright.

[pelago]

I don't recall seeing a TM on just the body. There are a sh*t load of spot welds. They must have gotten paid by the weld when the body was produced. Sounds like things are coming together alright.

right rear wheel well also has supports inside and outside all supports need to stay and spot welds carefully removed on both of them also the seat brackets

[gmwillys]

The seat bracket is the most important to get just right. The support is important, but not as critical.

The copper is in the mail. Should be there Monday.