well, the darn thing is out

[gmwillys]

This thread should get you all the hole dimensions for your end gate. Save the last picture, then you can blow it up enough to see.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7596&highlight=

[LarrBeard]

You'd been too quiet, too long. It's like the kids - if we don't hear from you we get worried.

Yeah, go slow and do it once.

[pelago]

When it first came in a friend looked at it and said, hell one afternoon tops.......................
yeah right, but it is going in, when trying to line up everything you get one corner or side right and then the other corner is out, and vice versa, so decided to start in the middle of the deck where it joins the tail section, there is a curved section that the floor sits on and that is where i started and slowly moving outboard and it seems to be working

3915

[gmwillys]

Looks good! It takes a bit of ironing out, but it will work out fine.

In the picture, I see you found yourself a fuel tank? Or is that one of the originals that is too far gone?

[TJones]

That looks like a new tank GM!!!!

[TJones]

That Looks Great Pelago !!!!!!!! You are doing a Great Job!!
It wont be long until your parade worthy Buddy!!!

[gmwillys]

I believe you are right TJones, it does look pretty new!! He might just make Memorial day 2019.

[pelago]

the tank???? it just showed up, got this box and there was a tank inside of it, but i did not order one and the label was screwed up, dont even know where it came from, label could not be read only my address and no packing list?????????????????

[gmwillys]

I'll be damned. Must have been the fuel tank fairy? I'm still looking for a box suitable for putting your shovel in.

[pelago]

WHILE I HAD BODY ON ITS SIDE FOUND SEVERAL RUSTY AREAS THAT I HAD MISSED, AND THEY WERE ALL PREDOMINATELY AROUND THE BRACE AND UNDER THE SEAT BRACKET.
Removed seat bracket and cut out the rusty bad areas and welded in a patch from inside with new steel. then from other side welded in "hole fills" had to repeat process because of "pockets or voids" but after three sessions and grinding each session to flat was able to achieve smooth unbroken section. since a patch was welded on all four sides and filled from other side, feel that water would be near impossible to get in there, and will be undercoating with same stuff used in truck beds, re attached seat bracket.
GETTING CLOSER

[gmwillys]

It seems to you that this is a never ending process. Every time you turn around, you'll find something that doesn't fit your liking, but you are getting there. Each step gets you closer to being parade ready.

[LarrBeard]

GETTING CLOSER

When is the last time you started it? Don't let the other part of the project think it doesn't have work to do.

[pelago]

ALL THE STUFF THAT NEEDED WELDED IS DONE (AT LEAST I BELIEVE SO), FLOORS, TOOL BOXES, BRACES, BRACKETS, TAIL SECTION.
Body on its side and starting to tape it to shoot the undercoat, where there is exposed threads for bolts putting a bolt in to keep threads clear, but taping undercarriage off now

[TJones]

Looks Great Pelago, you are making a lot of head way in the last couple weeks and its coming together pretty Sweet.
You are going to have, according to Dave Kindig a "Bitchin Ride" when you have her all finished up for the Memorial Day parade...............

[gmwillys]

Even though you were apprehensive about tackling the metal work, you have got it licked. You didn't even need more than advice from us. I for one am very proud of your progress in such a short time! Now I need to get off my Duff and get that shovel heading your way, so it can be painted when the body is.

[pelago]

gonna need a big ironing board, lotsa wrinkles, but it is what it is, give it more character, but it will at least have all the fenders and look (great from distance), but who is to say, can always take selected areas to a real body shop and say "MAKE IT LOOK PRETTY"

[gmwillys]

Get the wrinkles warm, then quench with a ice water soaked rag. That should shrink some of the waves. Depending on the depth of the valley and peak, will determine the amount of heat needed. Usually a good heat gun can get your panel fairly flat. If it is really distorted, then you may want to look at a shrinking disk, like Tjones wrote about. It will be alright to put a skin coat of body filler to level everything out perfectly smooth.

[pelago]

3951

UNDERCOAT TOMORROW, same stuff used to coat truck beds..... black

[LarrBeard]

3951

UNDERCOAT TOMORROW, same stuff used to coat truck beds..... black

I used the "rhino" style bed liner under the '48 truck and has held up very well for three summers. I haven't raced down fresh gravel roads, but it has handled casual rocks and trash well.

[pelago]

RAINING OUT!!!, Damn, wont take long to shoot this thing with the gun that i have, but am uncomfortable in doing it with active rain, got heater going in garage to keep metal warm and to avoid condensation, but just waiting...

[gmwillys]

Rain is in the forecast here till next Saturday. Monday through Thursday we are projected to get 8" to 12". All this is heading your way. If you can get it done today or tomorrow, you should be golden. Keep it warm for the first 12 hours after shooting.

[pelago]

3953

RAIN CEASED, RADAR SAID IT WAS GONE, BUT CLOUDY, ROOM TEMP 75DEGREES HUNMIDITY 50% SHOT IT, Sid have horrible trouble with first bottle and think that it sat on shelf too long, even with thiner all it did was come out in gobs, said damn this aint working, next bottle thinned it with some acetone and shook the piss out of it and then hardener, it actually sprayed a liquid, shot it all but missing one bottle probably means when it is supported ready to go on will have to get under it and touch it up with a throwaway brush, but when in the heck to you pull off the tap??? doesnt say anywhere
garage door shut heat back on and keeping it low overnight, both fenders done also, and was looking at gas tank and said whsat the hell shot the very bottom also

[pelago]

wow temp is sure droppin a hour ago it was 58 now it is 45 heat back on in garage and i pulled tape off firewall area, no problem, wind shifted to NE and that tells me that front is thru (have to be a old sailor to know that crap) let her sit all night happy so far

now it is 5pm that is 1700 for you other guys,, and temp now 41... wow dropping fast

[TJones]

It looks like your making Great progress Pelago, it looks good considering the weather your contending with. The undercoating should make it last a long time, and they say it helps with the road noise a little as well.
Makes me want to get back to work on mine, is I need to build a fire under the Ole boy's ars that's building the motor so I can get it and the tranny stuffed in it so I can start getting it wired.
Keep up the Good work Buddy it is going to look great..

[gmwillys]

The bedliner is tricky stuff to run through a gun. It takes some tuning to get it to spray just right. You are correct, the first dose was probably on the shelf for a long time. As soon as the liner tacks up good, then you can pull your tape. You don't want it to harden up, or it will be a great to pull the tape. It was a good plan on your part to coat the bottom of the fuel tank. I've done that on my A2, several years back, and it has been fine.

Your garage is fairly well insulated, at least from the pictures. Even if the ambient temperature drops down into the 30s, the bedliner should be alright. We have R30 insulation in our garage, with no drywall (yet), and when we had overnight temps down into the twenties, it stayed comfortable with no heat on.

[pelago]

yeah garage is finished, 2X6 studs on 16"centers, it aint going anywhere. salt treated plate on two courses of cinder block...,
the second bottle sprayed fine and came out as a liquid, first bottle must have sit for z long time it was consistency of valoline in a big lump, thinned it and shook hell out of it but it was horrible

[gmwillys]

You should be able to warm the garage with a candle. I have one vent in the utility room attached to the garage. Opening the man door, it warms up fairly quickly. The steel takes the longest to warm.

[pelago]

3955395639573958


generally speaking am very happy with the results, yeah missed some spots and some of it looks like small pox scars in reverse, but wth it will be looking down at ground, missed some but will have serious talk with napa about bad bottle and should be able to touch up with roller or throw away brush. I wore goggles and face mask and surgical throw away gloves, got some on right wrist and it burnt it somewhat, glad i took prep and wore hooded sweatshirt with hood up,,,, as soon as this critter goes on frame i burn sweatpants and sweatshirt that i have worn for each day of this evolution....

[pelago]

long time back there were some photos of strap placement to balance the body with lift, damificanfindthem....

[TJones]

I found on mine Pelago (a CJ-3A) that the bolt holes for the windshield swivel on the side of the cowl and the brackets to hold the tailgate shut are a perfect balance to pick the tub up level on mine, but you don't have the tailgate brackets on yours. I'm not sure what you have in the rear of the M38-A1 to run a bolt through to lift her up level.

[gmwillys]

Run your ratchet straps to the sides of both front body mounts, then a second ratchet straps to the tail light mounts. Adjust the straps to find your balance point with the engine hoist hook grabbing both straps. The undercoating looks pretty good. On to the top side! The fenders are really clean.

[gmwillys]

Are you going to tackle the final paint?

[pelago]

Are you going to tackle the final paint?



yeah have figured the dropcloth and am hanging, or will be hanging it in garsage got plastic 80'X15' to make a room for spray, sometime soon i hope, but will have body on frame so can do fenders and hood in one shot (i hope)

[pelago]

3978

kam screws themselves okay, so are the ?receptacles on the dash? springs bad, so i made four of them from some old thin banding material, damn if it didnt work. comes in and out easily with one turn of screwdriver, make sure i got all the different thing right, on/off., light cluster, throttle, choke so forth then paint it OD

ALSO SAVED FIFTY BUCKS

[gmwillys]

Saving money is a key to a good restoration. Anyone can have put out a blank check, and have new everything, but you loose the soul of the Jeep. With that being said, there is certain circumstances that warrant a new body, or even a new frame. As I year into the floor of our wagon, there were several paths that can be taken to get the same results. New floor pans could have been ordered for a reasonable price, but where is the fun in not forming your own copy of the original. I did purchase the rocker support and the rocker, just because of the complex stampings involved. If I knew now what I didn't know then, I would have invested in punch presses, brakes, and various iron working tools. Hind sight is indeed 20/20.

[pelago]

i watched a old tv show, remember the guy that had the show about picking a topic and a old car to build it from, Jesse??? the one who married the actress and then cheated on her (idiot, it was sandra bullock).. i watched him make a floor panel and he had a way of putting in the what normally would be stamped (grooves??) in flat steel, and then would complete a new floor, wish i had that capability and knew how to do it, 4X8 sheet of 20 guage rolled steel $49.00 bucks and think of the floor panels could be fabricated out of 4'X8'

[gmwillys]

Jesse James. A genius with metal, but a crappy human being. All his machines were from the war effort during WWII. They are ungodly heavy, but were made to last. You can still find them for cheap, but the labor and equipment to move them is outrageous. When I worked for a county, the trade school was taking bids on the 12' lathes from the machine shop. The weight of one lathe was around 9,000lbs. The only downside was that the motors were 3 phase, so I passed on bidding. Kick myself every day. The lathes went for pennies on the dollar.

You can use a bead roller to put in the grooves. A hand operated unit isn't terrible expensive. My problem is that I need to add on to the garage, just to have the room for all the goodies I want. If I ever get tired of being a Nomad, I'll build another shop like the last one I had. I don't have any electronic copies of pictures of the shop itself, but included picture has the corner of it.

Woodward Fab is a grown guys wish book for all the stuff that can make anything from sheet metal.

https://www.woodwardfab.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1P2qha_I4AIVExx9Ch0mvgB9EAAYAiA AEgJO8fD_BwE

[pelago]

been thinking of maybe doint a bed liner treatment on the back deck?? maybe even where feet go in passenger and driver side?? comments. hell of a lot cheaper than the floor mats kaiser sells

[gmwillys]

Some of the bedliners can be tinted to a shade close to the USMC olive. The liner would be more durable than just paint. If you do decide to go that route, make sure you coat the pedals.

[LarrBeard]

been thinking of maybe doint a bed liner treatment on the back deck?? maybe even where feet go in passenger and driver side?? comments. hell of a lot cheaper than the floor mats kaiser sells

That should work really well. I tinted the bed liner in the bed of the '48 and it came out very close to the body color. One unexpected side effect was that the texture of the liner tends to catch dust down in the ripples. If I want it to really look spiffy for show and tell, I have to get in there with a brush like I am GI'ing a deck to work the dust out, then wipe it down with a rag and clean water. (I do spoil my truck...).

At least I don't have to use my tooth brush .....

[gmwillys]

Play with the gun settings, and you can have not of deep of ridges.

[pelago]

yeah, to all, yeah, i kinda like the idea and will talk to the people that make this stuff and see about tint and color sorry to kaiser but this aint gonna get it https://www.kaiserwillys.com/moulded-rear-floor-mat-for-cargo-area-in-black-rubber-fits-41-72-jeep then got to get the passenger side and then driver side... https://www.kaiserwillys.com/moulded-front-floor-mat-in-black-rubber-fits-41-72-jeep for fifty bucks i can spray bed liner and get tougher results..

three more items in, need to take them out when i spray so that they can get a coat on them but they are in and this tailgate is not "plug and play" no holes for the trailer connector. and the two mounting holes for the tail lights are 2" center and the holes on the tailgate section were 2 1/2 so had to diddle with those. and damn actually had a 1- 3/4" hole cutter that cut metal, wonders never cease, bit even sure if i got the left one in the left hole? have to look and see, i just got em in for fit

3981

[LarrBeard]

for fifty bucks i can spray bed liner and get tougher results..

For some reason floor mats and liners are rare and precious. A long time ago (maybe 1965) I ordered a floor mat for the '48 truck from Warsharsky in Chicago, "... fits all 1946 - 1950 trucks station wagons and sedan delivery ...". Well, fits meant you could cram it in if you cut it in enough places. I ended up sticking carpet squares on the floor to seal out the wind and some of the noise.

The original floor mat had a fiber mat backer and a rubber top mat. Pretty basic, but even now you can't get a replacement for the 2WD trucks that have the shifter on the tree.

I splurged and had some custom upholstery done for the floor. I ran one summer with no mat and that was one noisy old beast. When I put the fancy red carpet in, when I stopped at the first light, I thought the engine had stalled it did such a good job of killing the high frequency noise!

I think the bed liner as a basic coating and just a rubber mat to keep things from sliding around would be a good job.

By the way - the undercoat looks very good.

[gmwillys]

I believe I'm going to try the Dynomat for sound insulation. It is supposed to work well with with heat as well. Nothing will be perfect, because I still want to have the exposed steel rear deck for the oak runners to be seen. I'm not sure how well the matting would stick to the outside, or how much moisture it will retain.

[pelago]

I believe I'm going to try the Dynomat for sound insulation. It is supposed to work well with with heat as well. Nothing will be perfect, because I still want to have the exposed steel rear deck for the oak runners to be seen. I'm not sure how well the matting would stick to the outside, or how much moisture it will retain.
when i bought my '35 ford pickup it had a oak bed in it, never changed that, but it was a cool truck with fifties hot rod stuff, man that was a long time ago

[pelago]

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/nsearch/?q=breakers%20m38a1

ckt breakers/fuses, is all that is out there, can not find fuse box or anything close on ckt diagram

[LarrBeard]

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/nsearch/?q=breakers%20m38a1

ckt breakers/fuses, is all that is out there, can not find fuse box or anything close on ckt diagram

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/M38/M38A1wiring.pdf

This is a pretty good wiring diagram. It is interesting in that it shows the three circuit breakers as "Circuit Breaker Wiring if Equipped". I've only read about the breakers on those vehicles, but I have seen mention of a breaker box up under the cowl somewhere. But - there is a possibility it just didn't have breakers ... and it certainly did not have fuses.

[LarrBeard]

And, of course, you find one more bit of information after you put up a post.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11105

Poke through this and it indicates that at least some M38A1's didn't have circuit breakers.

Just an opinion - I'd put at least one breaker between the battery and the vehicle wiring. Old harnesses have frayed spots and 24-volt systems can make smoke in a hurry!

[pelago]

Yeah, adding a breaker or even a fuse not a issue but current? have no idea about what to fuse the whole thing with?

[pelago]

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/M38/M38A1wiring.pdf

This is a pretty good wiring diagram. It is interesting in that it shows the three circuit breakers as "Circuit Breaker Wiring if Equipped". I've only read about the breakers on those vehicles, but I have seen mention of a breaker box up under the cowl somewhere. But - there is a possibility it just didn't have breakers ... and it certainly did not have fuses.

I have a large copy of that so i can see the numbers on the wiring ends, my wiring harness has about 80% of the numbers, and need those badly when i re assemble wiring, have a 24volt light bulb in a little ckt all by itself to play with as i figure it all out.

[pelago]

Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.

wth????

[pelago]

body is now hanging from engine hoist, i need to find another four inches of height to easily get the body over the steering wheel, may move the straps on front end some and maybe even let air out of tires some. NO WAY IS THAT DAMN STEERING COMING OUT NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, I WILL HIRE A DAMN CHERRY PICKER OR A HELO FIRST

[LarrBeard]

Yeah, adding a breaker or even a fuse not a issue but current? have no idea about what to fuse the whole thing with?

You don't have to protect a trailer, radio pack or a bunch of accessories. Here is a link to a little auto parts store breaker - it is a 30-amp breaker that will protect lights and ignition OK, but will trip out for a short to the chassis. I've used these in camper battery chargers that folks have shorted to the frame and blown the one-time fuses in the transformer high-current windings.

I like the little mounting tabs on this one:

https://www.autozone.com/electrical-and-lighting/circuit-breaker/cooper-bussmann-circuit-breaker/32372_0_0

If you wanted to add another breaker to protect a trailer or accessory plug, just add another one one for a second circuit.

And, I get the 'moderator" reply sometimes - it's a website thing.

[LarrBeard]

" ... i need to find another four inches of height to easily get the body over the steering wheel ..."

If you have the overhead clearance, it sounds like a job for three or four teen age boys ... a large pizza and a couple of 2 liter bottles of Mountain Dew.

[gmwillys]

With the body hanging from the engine hoist, attach a rope or strap to the farthest rear corner. When you approach the frame, pull on the strap to bring the body more of a 45 degree angle to the frame. This should do two things. The first is to twist the chain of the engine hoist, picking up an inch or two. The second is to sneak the steering wheel through the transmission tunnel opening.
I concur with LarrBeard on the circuit breaker. 24 volt magic smoke means big buck repairs.

[pelago]

twisting the chain on hoist would be difficult, i installed a swivel on the hoist to be able to turn the body once it was in the air, when i get the thing out of the garage i have to reverse it in the hoist to be able to walk it over the frame, right now the thing has the hoist at the firewall end and i need to reverse it, hoist is a pain in the *** to turn around anyway, agree on the 24vdc smoke

[gmwillys]

Look at you mister fancy engine hoist chain! I keep thinking that when the Chinese ram on mine goes out, it would install a duel action ram. It raises with the handle goes up, and when pushed down. Could go air over hydraulic, but nope. The air line would just get in the way.
Since you have a swivel on the chain, turn the body to a 45 degree angle, then attach another ratchet straps to the rear of the tub to the hoist. This should get you pert near your 4".

[pelago]

Look at you mister fancy engine hoist chain! I keep thinking that when the Chinese ram on mine goes out, it would install a duel action ram. It raises with the handle goes up, and when pushed down. Could go air over hydraulic, but nope. The air line would just get in the way.
Since you have a swivel on the chain, turn the body to a 45 degree angle, then attach another ratchet straps to the rear of the tub to the hoist. This should get you pert near your 4".



will try, moving things around tomorrow

[pelago]

4045404640474048

just wish my two grandsons would have been here, one is taller than i and outweighs me by 25lbs 16 6'4 and 225.... oh to be young, but it is on and damn if it did not drop right on mounting holes. right on the money.. as you can see lots of body work to do but did not want to do any until was on jeep

[gmwillys]

Nobody is ever around when you need help. Adapt and overcome! Good job on getting the body set on. My Grandson is 14, 6'4" and 210. He will be dangerous on the football field when his brain grows into his body.

[LarrBeard]

GREAT JOB! Milestones like this make you believe that the job will get done.

[pelago]

a less costly stuff to go between fender and body?? and to wrap the steering column kinda pricey
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/new-fender-to-body-tub-welt-kit-fits-41-53-mb-gpw-cj-2a-3a-3b-m38

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/steering-column-welt-kit-black-fits-41-71-mb-gpw-cj-2a-3a-3b-5-m38-m38a1

another question?? when windshield up, what makes it stay up?? and not fall forward when braking hard??

[LarrBeard]

" a less costly stuff to go between fender and body ?

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/new-fender-to-body-tub-welt-kit-fits-41-53-mb-gpw-cj-2a-3a-3b-m38"

When I look at the "Where Used", the catalog does not include M38A1. Did the A1 use this welt?

[gmwillys]

The M38A1 uses the same windshield latches that the CJs and M38 used. On the Kaiser Willys M38A1 windshield diagram it's item 12.
The material for the fenders to the body can be made out of thin inner tube. It is there more to prevent squeaking of the body and fender mating surfaces.

[pelago]

The M38A1 uses the same windshield latches that the CJs and M38 used. On the Kaiser Willys M38A1 windshield diagram it's item 12.
The material for the fenders to the body can be made out of thin inner tube. It is there more to prevent squeaking of the body and fender mating surfaces.

i wondered about that, a piece of rubber to me would hold moisture and help rust develop. to me logic would be to not have anything that holds moisture??

[gmwillys]

The original material was of a thin rubber material. It would be no different than the rubber body mounts up against the body when mounted. As long as the fender hardware retains torque, the rubber will keep water from penetrating the joint. Apply an extra coat of paint on those areas to ensure that rust doesn't form.

[pelago]

COULD NOT STAND IT HAD TO START IT HAD NOT RUN SINCE LAST FALL. BUT DARN, the starter button did not reach the actuator on the starter enough? not sure i understand all i need to know about that. oh well, another solution looking for a problem. yeah on the thin rubber, think i i will check out lowes tmrw. so i used the trusty vice grip and she hit on first rev, sounded good to hear it run again. A look at the photo shows the distance it has to travel before even engaging the switch to activate the darn thing, whole lot

4061

[gmwillys]

Does the starter actuator feel as if it is traveling its full range? Sometimes the spring gathers as it collapses, and doesn't allow for the button to travel the full length. If that checks out, then I would look at the upper transmission cover to ensure it hadn't been beat backwards for clearance for an engine swap. If both those items check out, worst comes to worst, a nut and washer could be tacked on to the floor switch to take up the clearance.

[pelago]

Does the starter actuator feel as if it is traveling its full range? Sometimes the spring gathers as it collapses, and doesn't allow for the button to travel the full length. If that checks out, then I would look at the upper transmission cover to ensure it hadn't been beat backwards for clearance for an engine swap. If both those items check out, worst comes to worst, a nut and washer could be tacked on to the floor switch to take up the clearance.

can not see any any bends that do not look right, actually have two of them and been told that they can be adjusted out?? looks to me like there is one solid rod and it has one end pressed on?? a retainer clip holding it on? dunno, darn thing is just too short, might have to weld something on end as you say, but took it off with same engine?

[LarrBeard]

The original material was of a thin rubber material. It would be no different than the rubber body mounts up against the body when mounted. As long as the fender hardware retains torque, the rubber will keep water from penetrating the joint. Apply an extra coat of paint on those areas to ensure that rust doesn't form.

My curiosity got the best of me and I looked in the '48's Parts Manual. In the Fender Groups they list "Prestite strips, rubber, 1/16" x 1 inch" for the front and rear fenders. I don't recall if we put strips back or not...

[gmwillys]

I don't recall it being adjustable. The one in the first picture was retained, but a good soaking of penetrant and it worked fine. The engine/transmission mounts are not slotted fore or aft, so there shouldn't be an issue there. Just making sure, is the rear of the body even with the rear cross member, or is it hanging over? There might be just enough play to allow you to shift the body forward, but not that much.

[pelago]

actually when i dropped the body on the frame, incredible as it sounds, when i looked down the holes for the three bolts in the front, i was able to drop the bolts in. incredible.,, the two carriage bolts were maybe 1/8th off, and some wiggle with a large handled phillips took care of that, and the two bolts on the bottom of the rear floor that go into the frame were same way, just lined up as they were supposed to be. but i took some advice and when the body being re assembled on the spare frame it was all done with bolts holding it down for welding. that was a strong strong tip and it paid off. the two mounting bolts that go on the rear of the tail gate are a bit off but so is rear bumper, but will sort that out.. and rubber spacers in all of them. and since that i have added ground straps to the body from frame.

working still on the starter solenoid button, welded a nut on the business end and dam if it is still a smidgen off.. but there are adjustments on the starter on the activating rod and friday gooing to play with that.

new topic, in all the years, of being around jeeps i never ever saw a scabbord, now for driving in a veterans day parade think a M1, maybe a carbine, maybe a M14??? got three sniper rifles also, USMC model 1941, 1903A4, M40. dont even think that there was ever a scabbord for those, Now kaiser has one for only 344.00 but it i US Made and good quality
only 344.00 wonder how many they sell??

this has possibilities, and was surprised and the number for sale??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-ARMY-M1938-Leather-Rifle-Jeep-Scabbard-for-M1-Garand-Rifle-Fulton-1943/312283536307?hash=item48b58c9bb3:g:~e8AAOSwxG9b1M8 3:rk:4:pf:0

[gmwillys]

I like the scabbord. If it is original, the one on eBay looks pretty good. It's expensive, but it looks right for the age of the leather.
You can use any rifle from M1, M14, 1903, or even a model 70 Win. Your possibilities are endless since the A1 served in two theaters of operations.

[pelago]

Somehow this just dont look right, and can not remember this?4064

[gmwillys]

That mount is too modern. Plus it would be way too hard to get in and out of the driver's seat. I'm not real wild about the safety being off. I can't determine if the rifle is a replica, a M14, or a M1A. Looks like it has the full auto selector with the notch in the stock. This is how my mind works.

[pelago]

That mount is too modern. Plus it would be way too hard to get in and out of the driver's seat. I'm not real wild about the safety being off. I can't determine if the rifle is a replica, a M14, or a M1A. Looks like it has the full auto selector with the notch in the stock. This is how my mind works.



ITS GOT THE SELECTOR SWITCH THATS FOR SURE AND I AGREE ON SAFETY, BUT THEN AGAIN WHEN I WENT OUT THE WIRE MY SAFETY WAS OFF TOO, CAN HEAR THAT DAMN CLICK A MILE AWAY AND THAT WAS BAD JU JU KINDA HARD TO GET IN AND OUT, MY THOUGHT IS ITS REAL. HAVE 3 M1A'S AND A BUNCH OF GARRANDS AND A COOL M2STOCKED (M2 STOCK IS A FAT CARBINE STOCK FOR THE FULL AUTO, WHICH OF COURSE I DO NOT POSSESS) CARBINE WITH A BRAND NEW WINCHESTER UNFIRED BARREL ( I WON THE BARREL AT THE 2011 NATIONAL MATCHES. HAD IT PUT ON MY WINCHESTER CARBINE BUT HAVE YET TO FIRE IT. BUT DAMN IF THOSE SCABBARDS AINT PRICEY, MAYBE A REPRO?? AND

where in the hell does the axe go? i can not remember seeing the jeep with full pioneer gear, most of the time the axe and shovel just not with them, maybe cuz even in RVN they got stolen?? for whatever reason. I see some photos of the jeep with the axe on passenger side on top of fender and some on outside passenger side. shovel yeah under hood, and i think i got all the stuff to mount the shovel

[LarrBeard]

Somehow this just dont look right, and can not remember this?4064

There is a selector. Is it real or just a dummy? Can't tell without handling the rifle. But, we're not in combat here and even for a display - having a rifle (in fact - two rifles) with the bolts closed and magazines inserted just has too many risks. As an NRA Range Safety Officer and a CMP Master GSM Instructor that picture just raises all of the hair on my neck and forearms. To take a term from Ira "Really Bad JuJu"

I can't tell, but the M14/M1A looks like it may have a Picatinny rail on the rear sight. If so, it is probably a Springfield Armory M1A with an added dummy selector. The other one is an M16A2, and it shouldn't have a magazine in it either.

Here is how I carry my various pieces of iron to and from the range and store them. For casual readers, that plastic piece is called an Empty Chamber Indicator and it lets everyone (you, your shooting buddy and the Line Officer) know at a glance that there is not a chambered round in the rifle and it is safe to handle.

Thanks for letting me make my speech.

[pelago]

starter button fixed. and this

4068[/]40664067

wow, we have the same creds. and got boxes of eci's for parade will probably have to have chamber open and chain locked up

[LarrBeard]

Ira, that is looking great. If you had to, you could drive it down the street with a milk crate for a seat!

That picture has bugged me all day. We both know that there are not many M14's in circulation. If someone has one on the up-and-up, he has more sense (I hope) than display it like that. If it's one of those we hear stories about, that guy isn't going to display it at all. My vote is that rifle is an M1A with a dummy selector. (I hope no one is as dumb as that picture .....).

Don't we wander all over the place with our comments .....

[gmwillys]

The axe goes on top of the rear passenger wheel well, unless you mount the radios. Then the axe is mounted on the left side wheel well. Yours is looking good. Almost time for a ride around the block.

There is only one firearm within the house that doesn't have the open chamber cable locks installed, even in the safe. I keep my Springfield Arms .40 in a locked gun case, with the mag out, and the slide open. Even Uncle Sam needs a lesson in firearms safety. There is a full bird out there that probably still can't sit down to this day. He signed the document stating that there were no live rounds, or human/organic parts within the truck before being shipped out back to the states. Long story short, there was a live105MM canister anti-personell round still stuffed in the breech. The good thing, the soldiers did remove the firing pin. We do find a lot of live .50 Cal rounds stuck in the books and crannies of the engine.
If anyone comes down to the CMP range in Talladega, or to the CMP retail store in Anniston, I'll by the first round of your favorite beverage.

[pelago]

heard a lot of good things about taladega, with the electronic targets, that is what is stopping me from competing is the back and forth from the pits by walking just plain old fatique. i need to come down there and shoot and then say Hey to Dennis at the store, and i sure do miss R Lee.. known each other for many many years..
got to get insurance and a title and tires and 4 rims

[gmwillys]

R. Lee was a good man. I bought an autographed photo of the doughnut scene from Full Metal Jacket. I bought it off of his website, and at the bottom it asked for a phone number if the recipient of the autograph. I purchased the picture for my father, so I put down his number. The same day the picture arrived, R. Lee calls him and has an hour long or better conversation. My father was thrilled to talk about his days in the Marines.
If you need any assistance if you do decide to run Talladega, I'll help you out.
I still have the 16" civilian wheels if you need them.

[pelago]

R Lee a long time personal friend,, but every year i beat his *** with a M1

[gmwillys]

He did a spotlight on our Stryker MGS. He was in the Gunner's seat and touched off a round.... He didn't back his eye away from the sight, and was scoped. It didn't make the show, but a couple of butterfly Band-Aids, and he was fine. The 105MM has quite a kick.

[pelago]

MANAGED TO GET MY CLUTCH LINKAGE MESSED UP When put the body one it depressed the clutch pedal so much that the spring is tight and can not move anything, got to get underneath and relax the linkage to see what is happening. got to loosen up the actual cable and screw at the attachment point, daXX

[gmwillys]

Sounds like the clutch arm is caught on the body. If everything was in spec before the body was installed, the you will probably need to raise the front if the body to find where the clutch is hung.

[pelago]

That is just what the problem was, and when i looked up at the whole thing from underneath and since the undercoat was black and i was looking up and sun was high it was like looking into the black hole of calcutta.... when i got a light down there the arm was in fact hanging up on the little clip that is on the front of the mount. almost like the body was 1/8" off to the left. however all the holes just lined up but that one clip cockeyed to the left. but all else is good? Heck i ground off a little bit of the piece sticking out and freed it up.

Was actually able to drive it a bit, back and forth in driveway. clutch seems good, brakes seem to need some adj at the master cylinder have no play at all and the brakes engage at the touch of the pedal. since i had no idea where to adjust the master cyl arm that makes sense. time to get under neath again and adju master cyl arm relax it some so i have maybe a little play in pedal before it engages cylinder??

one funny thing happened. was so much in joy driving it sitting on a milk crate that once when backing up i pulled the wheel while my head turned around and pulled the darned wheel right off, no wheel, a little panic then but pushed clutch in and hit brakes and all was good. once i get a seat and am actually sitting wher i can reach it all will drive around the block.
But actually have a good clutch ( i think) and will have good brakes (I think)

Now to comply with the DMV and move forward to getting a title, law enforcment with the state have to come and look at it (again) and i do now have a surety bond for 15k that cost me 225.00 there is no reason not to issue a title. but for whatever reason the title will be "inoperative" thems the rules and rules have to be followed whether you like them or not.
But and this is a good thing i do not have to have a safety inspection jeep too old

not part of original set up but maybe a lap seat belt. comments on that?? not required but wth dont want my large butt to fall out

[gmwillys]

Glad it worked out for you.

I like to set the brakes free play at a 1/2" to 3/4". As long as the rod isn't applying pressure to the master cylinder, and essentially dragging the brake, you'll be fine. The clutch I like to have 1" of free pedal at clutch engagement . Then check to ensure that the clutch is fully disengaged with the pedal at the floor, but not too much to where the clutch can go over center and hang up. The free pedal adjustment usually gets you where you want to be.

If you have a surplus store around, see if they have some bomber style lap belts. They will be green, and look like they belong in the Jeep. If not, Ebay has several to choose from with the mounting hardware and floor plates.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOT-ROD-PAIR-2-LATCH-LINK-SEAT-BELT-2-POINT-RACING-LAP-BELTS-MILITARY-GREEN-/282812770540

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Retro-Vintage-2-Point-Lap-Seat-Belts-2-With-Retrofit-Kit-Select-Color-74/264068899313?hash=item3d7bbba1f1:g:da0AAOSwIGxcIRK Z:rk:8:pf:0

[pelago]

great information, got the clutch at that point, when clutch disengaged I was able to check the cable and there is some play in it when disengaged so the throwout bearing is totally out of play and when clutch engaged i have full throwout bearing in play. clutch is good.
Now to get into the master cylinder adj, not a lot of room for this but will be able to send it some and get play in the pedal, have not done so but feel it is there. feel seat belts might be important, and the cost of falling out over a few dollars is not that bad

[pelago]

isnt there supposed to be a arm that keeps hood open, can not locate it on any manual

drat, can't sleep so said wth got up and it is 5am and daXn if it aint snowing out, probably wont amount to much, but kinda hard to get under jeep and adj master cylinder in the snow

[pelago]

damn, but it has been cold, may have a lead on some rims, workin on it. cleaning out garage so i can get this thing in where i can at least get some heat going. this morning (now i know some of you guys live up north so dont laugh, i used to live up there also and know how cold it can get) it is 26 degrees out and that is just too cold for my sorry butt to be out under the jeep

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/lower-windshield-hinge-screw-4-req-d-per-hinge-fits-52-71-cj-5-m38a1

wow 4 bucks each and need ten???

[gmwillys]

I don't blame you for staying warm. You've done your time sloshing around and being out in the elements. The temps are on the way back up, so you'll be back up and running in no time. Stay up off the floor until the concrete warms up. Cold concrete will make your bones hurt.

It hasn't been that long ago that I lived in the far north tundra, where it would get down to -40. I didn't mind it, and would survive if found myself there again. I don't mind the 27 above we've had here the past few mornings. We have been out the last few mornings sorting out the condition of the latest batch of power packs to set our schedules at 04:00 to make the 06:00 meeting. Our forklift operator looked like an Eskimo with a couple of coats and a scarf.

[TJones]

Pelago try this web site where I get all my bolts www.boltdepot.com, you could probably get all 10 for $4.00 in stainless

[pelago]

NEED 5/16 x 24 THEY DONT HAVE IT, DARN

[TJones]

How long are they?
Do you mind if they are Hex Drive head?
Try this web site www.mcmaster.com/standard-flat-head-screws
They don't have Phillips head but they do have Hex Drive head 316 Stainless 5/16-24 x 1/2" for $5.50 for 10 each
If you do decide to go with stainless a FYI USE never seeze or some type of anti-seeze or you will never get them back out, take my word I have learned the hard way, I have had to cut the bolts in half to get them back out.....

[pelago]

BODY PUTTY...
Went to some of the local body shops and asked them what did they use for putty and three recommended
this $50.00 plus tax

4078

[pelago]

REMEMBERING THAT I HAVE ZERO SKILLS IN THIS. I have watched these guys take a dollap of putty and lay a 3/16" thickness of this stuff as pretty as can be, all level and looks like it could just be painted then and there. Me, no way but sm fudding my way thru this

40804081408240834079

[gmwillys]

Looks like you are getting the mixture about right. Make sure you knead the filler first to break up any air bubbles first, then add the hardener. This will buy you a bit of time since the air is already worked out. Apply it as even as you can, so then you don't have peaks and valleys that you have to sand through or depressions to fill. Another thing to remember is don't make up too much at once.

Go to Harbor Freight and get a 17" hand sander. This will help you keep a straight panel when sanding. Small sanders will leave waves in the material.

https://www.harborfreight.com/17-inch-auto-body-hand-sander-1727.html

Sand in a 45degree angle, starting at the top of the panel, and continue downward until you run off the panel. Using this method works well on your A1 because the sides are flat. Starting at the top and working through the material will give you any evidence of low spots, by leaving paint or filler behind....(you can add a light dusting of spray paint to act as a guide coat) Where the spray paint came off during sanding is level, where the paint remained is low.

[gmwillys]

Body work is a fine art. It is the one process that either have a good day at it or everything turns to crap. Humidity and other environmental will screw with the filler as in how long it takes to cure. The 3M stuff is good, and it isn't much more expensive than the pink Bondo. Take your time, and you'll be alright!

[pelago]

Body work is a fine art. It is the one process that either have a good day at it or everything turns to crap. Humidity and other environmental will screw with the filler as in how long it takes to cure. The 3M stuff is good, and it isn't much more expensive than the pink Bondo. Take your time, and you'll be alright!



Doing it in a heated garage, turned heat on at 6am so humidity went down the dumper, so far so good, i think got one of the sanders and making a lot of dust with it

[pelago]

Body work is a fine art. It is the one process that either have a good day at it or everything turns to crap. Humidity and other environmental will screw with the filler as in how long it takes to cure. The 3M stuff is good, and it isn't much more expensive than the pink Bondo. Take your time, and you'll be alright!



your corners gorped up also... seems to be popular to beat up corners

[gmwillys]

The problem is that there is nothing at the sides or the rear to protect the body.

The left rear was pushed in, then over towards the center line. The frame cross member was broken behind the bumperette. The quarter actually popped out fairly easily. I invested in a stud welder to help with the process. It works by welding a bunch of studs along the valley of the dent. Then you attach a slide puller on the studs, slapping a couple of wacks each. As the dent is coming out, run a flat body hammer to tap the high parts next to the dent to help relax the steel back into place. The stud gun worked great, but the slide hammer was cheap. It was a $99 harbor freight special.

https://www.harborfreight.com/stud-welder-dent-repair-kit-61433.html

The pictures are of the before and after, minus the picture of a parachute failure on the first one. The last picture was of the final product, after the A1 was all done and back home.

[pelago]

since i am convinced that this jeep was a radio jeep, i have two of the four holes for antenna on drivers side rear, but only two? but do have original connector for power and four holes in top for mount

https://craftsmancapitol.com/products/craftsmancapitol-premium-easy-automatic-rivet-tool?fbclid=IwAR27qZAtOLko7QP4abI_DTm4CKbxRKEglCYc S1AjGzo19R08oNfETQFNHQM

[LarrBeard]

" ... but do have original connector for power and four holes in top for mount "

I don't remember everything about the sheet metal mounting bracket, but I believe that the actual antenna mounted on the top of an antenna matching network that had two connectors on its bottom. One connector was RF to and from the radio, the other was a control cable that switched different matching networks depending on radio tuning. There was probably just a clearance hole in the body for the cables to pass through.

[LarrBeard]

Google "MX-6707 for more than you really wanted to know about the antenna mount. I forgot it had a switch on its base as well.

[gmwillys]

The mount backer for the antenna had the four mount holes on the left rear quarter panel, then the mount wrapped around an was mounted with two bolts directly to the left of the trailer plug. Chief is correct in saying that the single hole was the antenna harness pass through.

[pelago]

Google "MX-6707 for more than you really wanted to know about the antenna mount. I forgot it had a switch on its base as well.

bet i mounted a jillion 6707's in my lifetime 32 to 75mhz, pretty good tuner

WELL WHAT NEXT, SEATS, RIMS, TIRES?? My milk crate aint really working too well, yeah can back up some but when i push the brake the crate goes back instead of brake being depressed, but at least the steering wheel dont come off that easily. and the tires on it sort of hold air, sort of anyway. or maybe some glass for windshield, or say wth and start wet sanding and let heavy decisions form as dust flies

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE start wet sanding and let heavy decisions form as dust flies[/QUOTE]

Yeah - that's kind of like cutting grass or fishin' - time to think.

[pelago]

[QUOTE start wet sanding and let heavy decisions form as dust flies

Yeah - that's kind of like cutting grass or fishin' - time to think.[/QUOTE]


makes sense, and yeah getting kind of pooped, been hitting this thing pretty hard now for three months straight, did manage to get the windshield sort of on, need some more darned nuts and bolts, something new, need 5 1/16 X 18 various lengths. changed the mounting hardware for hinges to 5/16 X 18 mostly, did manage to get two machine screws orignal one in and then since i had changed the drivers side brace had to actually put a nut on inside and lock it in same with drivers side one original and rest 5/16X 18 with nuts and locking washers and some loc tite, (what the heck). going to take the frame to a glass house and just ask them if they can split it like original with some of the magic stuff they use. am hopefull because the split is not steel but rubber

[pelago]

WHEN I WAS TEARING THESE RUSTED HULLS DOWN I WOULD REMOVE A PART AND THROW IN A BOX, PUT IN A BLAST CABINET AND CLEAN UP AND PRIME, THEN SORT OF FORGOT THEM.. NOW TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I HAVE


4097

First photo is passenger side mounts for what i feel are the bows. now the center one am 99% sure it is right spot, (can not go anywhere else) but the outside two, both bolted to side , did i get em reversed? can not id with photos on internet, too blury, too small, what have you, are they correct?

next photo show a collection of pieces and parts. far left am pretty sure they deal with passenger seat. a latch? but for what windshield, got two now not sure i need a 3rd, then a pair of brackets?? next, no freakin idea?? last on right bracket for light in grill??


4098

[gmwillys]

You are correct on the first two items pictured. They mount the passenger seat to the top of the tool box, along the front lip. The second piece looks like the windshield lock latch, for the center of the windshield, and connects to the loop mounted to the hood. The last pieces are a puzzle to me. The third item and the fourth go together, but I can't picture in my mind to where they went. The fifth piece in my opinion is the windshield mounts for the soft top rods. The rods mount to the inside of the windshield, at the upper corners of the frame. The last piece looks to be the rear view mirror bracket

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/diagram/m38a1-diagrams/body-diagrams-willys-m38a1/body-rear-view-52-71-m38a1/body-rear-view-52-71-m38a1

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=61739

[pelago]

this is a neat one.. and the sort of thing that makes one groan


4099

these cost fifty bucks each, no way around it, unless you are creative in casting and welding and then it will cost more than what you needed to spend, i got two of them and yeah they fit and will work, but the bolt size is 7 fuXXing gook metric BS, 7gd MM... so okay for that but surprise surprise surprise (some jim nabors in there) 5/16 X 18 tap will weed out the oriental crap and allow for a #8 bolt instead of the zinch chromate rust master that i had selected at first

[pelago]

You are correct on the first two items pictured. They mount the passenger seat to the top of the tool box, along the front lip. The second piece looks like the windshield lock latch, for the center of the windshield, and connects to the loop mounted to the hood. The last pieces are a puzzle to me. The third item and the fourth go together, but I can't picture in my mind to where they went. The fifth piece in my opinion is the windshield mounts for the soft top rods. The rods mount to the inside of the windshield, at the upper corners of the frame. The last piece looks to be the rear view mirror bracket

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/diagram/m38a1-diagrams/body-diagrams-willys-m38a1/body-rear-view-52-71-m38a1/body-rear-view-52-71-m38a1

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=61739

hmm looking at photo further on page looks like top bow mount? in that case i have only one??

4100

[pelago]

41014102


holy willys batman it looks like a jeep

7mm my dieing butt

[gmwillys]

I agree, no metric on the A1. Good job In getting it straightened out.

[pelago]

The original four machine screw holding the hinge on (lower) were 5/16X24 with a reverse knurled top portion to keep it from un screwing. WTH i was able to remove the hold down on all nuts and changed them all out for 5/16X18 which is a hell of a lot more practical, and took a punch and hit all four nuts were metal met metal and they aint gonna vibrate out. lot of respect for these engineers back in 40's and 5's but 5/16X24 and left hand lug bolts on drivers side of car. naaaaah dont think so

[gmwillys]

I like to watch these kids trying to figure out left handed threads. I am often amazed by the feats of the engineers during the war. Singer sewing machines, IH, and a few others cranked out M1 Garands, and Ford cranked out B24s by the hundreds. All using blue prints and a slide rule.

[pelago]

STILL HAVE MY OLE SLIDE RULE, SOMETIMES FASTER FOR ME THAT A TEXAS iNTRUTMENT CALCULATOR THIS COUNTRY SENT MEN TO THE MOON USING A SLIDE RULE

[gmwillys]

And now the engineers tell us that the computer said it would fit. More often then not, it doesn't.

[pelago]

and now the engineers tell us that the computer said it would fit. More often then not, it doesn't.



bingo.......................

[LarrBeard]

And now the engineers tell us ...

There are still some engineers with grease under their nails and busted knuckles who don't trust the computer. Be kind to us.

I have seen photographs of aircraft and vehicle drafting rooms, circa 1938 - 1941, with draftsmen making J-size drawings on linen with old India ink drafting pens. A J-size format is for all practical purposes full size for wing spars ..... .

I couldn't resist. Here is a real engineer's design tool kit.

(Oops, I forgot the Pink Pearl eraser ...)

[gmwillys]

I can not bad mouth all engineers. The biggest problem now is that these folks go to school, get a job sitting behind a computer designing parts without ever seeing the vehicle in person. No hands on experience required.

I've had the pleasure to have had the opportunity to work with some really good old school engineers. One was a guy who designed the hydraulic systems on railway grinders. He plotted every bend needed in the hydraulic hard line on plywood for reproduction purposes. He oversaw every step of the plumbing process, and personally tested the system for proper operation. Everything was hand written in ledger books, and kept at his desk on the shop floor.

[pelago]

there are still some engineers with grease under their nails and busted knuckles who don't trust the computer. Be kind to us.

I have seen photographs of aircraft and vehicle drafting rooms, circa 1938 - 1941, with draftsmen making j-size drawings on linen with old india ink drafting pens. A j-size format is for all practical purposes full size for wing spars ..... .

I couldn't resist. Here is a real engineer's design tool kit.

i really like that, love the vise grips.. My slide is white and i dug i out and actually need a new one due to some of the script/numbers are so worn as to not be able to read them (and there is no symbol for pi that i can find on keyboard) but mine is just gone on slide

[pelago]

I can not bad mouth all engineers. The biggest problem now is that these folks go to school, get a job sitting behind a computer designing parts without ever seeing the vehicle in person. No hands on experience required.

I've had the pleasure to have had the opportunity to work with some really good old school engineers. One was a guy who designed the hydraulic systems on railway grinders. He plotted every bend needed in the hydraulic hard line on plywood for reproduction purposes. He oversaw every step of the plumbing process, and personally tested the system for proper operation. Everything was hand written in ledger books, and kept at his desk on the shop floor.

I have a very good frend that was a rotc guy at a engineering school in the east, and he selected submariner commission, at the time all officers had to be interviewed with Rickover himself, and from what i have been told and have no way to disprove or confirm he is a rather one sided rude individual (at least as told to me). And my friend Bill apparently pissed off Rickover as the admiral told my friend that the navy in effect his nuclear sub navy really did not need him. My friend Bill never one to back off anything simply said "Admiral you may not know this or may not agree with this but the US Navy needs me more than i need the Navy" as he was getting up to leave Rickover said simply "Your In" Bill stayed in and in fact spent more time on a diesel sub than anything else. After Navy went to work for IBM and created and designed many things and has over 50 patents.. Too bad he was not from Georgia Tech then he could have called himself a true rambling wreck. I knew Bill from my cruising days aboar Pelago my loved and sorely missed Pearson #@ Vanguard (Pelago Hull #177 32'6" and full keel cruiser.. Bill was and is today a fine engineer. I lived aboard Pelago for ten full years and cruised the entire carib, when diesel was $.16 a gallon had opportunity to buy a work boat 120' long full dive gear complete machine shop, good staterooms, two cumings diesels for power and two diesel generators. but as such as life is i did not do it, and this thing held 4000 gallons diesle, thought i could buy diesel in Vz and cruise as a mobile workshop and diesel station... oh well

41104109

[LarrBeard]

I saw the picture of Pelago on QRZ.com; she was a beautiful boat.

By all accounts Rickover was indeed an opinionated dislikeable individual and your friend's story is one of the milder ones.

On Pelago, did you do celestial navigation or were you a LORAN navigator?

[pelago]

I saw the picture of Pelago on QRZ.com; she was a beautiful boat.

By all accounts Rickover was indeed an opinionated dislikeable individual and your friend's story is one of the milder ones.

On Pelago, did you do celestial navigation or were you a LORAN navigator?

used a sextant, and shot lunar and sun and went to tables and used old fashioned math to obtain position but also had a good chart plotter, the chart plotter had a track display on it and one time went to bimini and the track on plotter went over south bimini island to anchorage, that is why it was so important the you navigaed and did not rely completely on electronics. never got lost, always hit the mark where and when i wanted to, yeah used plotter but always always did it old fashioned way, and had two chronometers aboard. and remember most charts of the caribbean are over 100 years old and can not be relied on as far as position is, that is where harbor entrance or sea buoy supposed to be, always timed my arrival for daytime so eyeballs were there missed a few times but hove to until sun up

4111411241134114

[pelago]

Well, it sure is green, and that is the same turkey trot green stuff i remember
41154116411541174118

[gmwillys]

Looking good!

[pelago]

looking good!

put on five full coats, let flash dry and then went to starting point and did it again, thanks, now to not touch it for 24hours

NOW TO CEREMONIOUSLY BURN THE CLOTHES HAVE WORN DAMN NEAR DAILY FOR LAST THREE MONTHS, WEAR EM, WASH EM, WEAR AGAIN, THRU ALL THE MUD, THE BLOOD AND THE BEER, NOT TO MENTION AT LEAST A DOZEN WELD BURN HOLES

[pelago]

this has already been addressed but darn if i can find it.
on the m38a1 i have i have a timing issue the dist is not able to twist enough to obtain correct timing were i able to go another 1/2" on it maybe the solution is to pull the oil pump and move one gear, darned if i can remember one click CCW or one click CW. gonna hate pulling that stinking pump but gotta do it, another gasket crapppppoooo

and then there is this
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/ignition-switch-4-prong-conversion-fits-50-66-m38-m38a1

i have a perfectly good ignitions swithc, what i dont have is the little harness that goes between the big harness, coming off the voltage reg have a virtually great cable with all the right numbers on the tags and it goes to the ignition switch to route 24vdc but do not have that stinking little harness and not going to spend 115 dollars for a new switch, help

and this, am showing this photo as a example, i would change the Div patch to a simple Diamond, blue field, southern cross and 1 in center 1ST MARINE DIVISION, but everything else is pretty much as i remember, then the Corps went to the M151 piece of junk should have kept the M38A1

4126

[gmwillys]

What I'm trying to wrap my mind around is to why you keep losing time. Is it too far advanced or retarded? It sounded like the engine started right up for you when you installed the body? What is leading you to think that it is now out again? Timing light, or by ear?

Instead of pulling the oil pump every time you need to move the distributor a tooth, I would make a slotted piece of copper pipe that can be inserted to the oil pump drive to turn to match your distributor drive. It will take a little playing to get it to line up perfectly, because you'll have to figure on the distributor turning slightly when engaging the cam. In my mind it is better than tearing off the oil pump every time you have an issue.

As far as the harness, order the Douglas connectors and make your own harness.
https://www.willysjeepparts.com/Wiring_C.htm

The M38A1 was much better that the M151. The M151A2 wasn't bad after the rear trailing arms were modified to reduce the chance for the MUTT to roll over during a turn at speed. The picture is of how must M151s ended up.

[pelago]

TIMING, WHEN A LIGHT PUT ON IT, CAN NOT ADJ TO EVEN GET TO TIMING MARK,,, FALLS SHORT, MY MECHANIC FRIEND SAYS THAT HE FEELS TIMING IS JUST NOW WHAT IT SHOULD BE, HE PUT HAND OVER EXH AND SAID IT SEEMS LACKING, WHEN I PUT THE LIGHT ON IT IT FALLS SHORT OF THE TIMING MARK AND SUPPOSED TO SET IT AT 5 ADVANCED JUST CAN NOT DO THAT..... YEAH IT DOES START BUT IN REALITY I AM NOT THAT GREAT A JUDGE OF WHAT IT SHOULD SOUND LIKE

Was told that the m151 surplus were ran thru a giant band saw and cut in half, could not be sold??

[gmwillys]

Timing requires a good ear more than anything. An engine will tell you what it likes, and what it doesn't, even with the timing light is telling you that it should be happy. If it starts well cold, then starts well hot then it should be in the neighborhood of being right. Exhaust will tell you a lot as well. Advance it too far and it will knock and bang because the spark is lighting the fuel before way before 5 degrees TDC. Retard it too far, and the engine will be a dog. The spark is hitting after TDC, and not burning the fuel thoroughly enough. I wish I would have jumped on purchasing the Military service/troubleshooting kit that my father purchased some years back at a flea market. It had all the special connectors to hook directly to the distributor and a 24 volt timing light. They are still out there, but people want a fortune for them.

The M151 was a great idea in theory, but the design had some major flaws in the beginning. Much like the Corvairs of the mid 60s, the rear axle was an independent style of suspension. It worked well for absorbing rough terrain, but the flaw came out when driver on a hard surface. The rear A arm suspension was set up much like most front A arms that are used on the front. The A arms are mounted 90 degree from the sub frame. If you turn to sharply at speed, the inside wheel can lift off the ground, then fold under when it comes back down, causing the MUTT to roll. The M151 and M151A1 were at first cut in half with a large band saw. The first picture is of one of the early ones cut behind the dash board. The drive shafts, brake and fuel lines were all cut in one pass. When folks were buying the halves and welding them back together, then Uncle Sam went to crushing them into cubes like the photo that was shown this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqLbcHYN1hM

The A2 version has the rear A arms angle changed to where the arms face the rear. This allows them to absorb the terrain, but does not allow them to fold under when not in contact with the roadway. The last three photos are of an A2 version that I did some body work on.

[pelago]

I will need to get into this timing more, there are 12 gears in oil pump and that covers 360 degrees, and when i turn the dist it falls way short of where it needs to go, am at a stop on dist so need some more turning radius and only way i see to get it is one click on gear?

just got a note from Kaiser by email, they want to feature my M38A1 in next years catalog. wow.....

[gmwillys]

One tooth should get you within the range on the timing adjustment.

A spread in the catalogue would be great! You've worked hard to get where you are today, might as well show off your handy work.

[LarrBeard]

just got a note from Kaiser by email, they want to feature my M38A1 in next years catalog. [/QUOTE]

Wow ... That is really a great idea.

[pelago]

another surprise...
obtained comprehensive coverage for the restoration at a great rate $126.00 a year https://americancollectors.com/passion/?st-t=gclid=*&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpsLkBRDpARIsAKoYI8ytOK46jT35T9lPJpY0 3HIsty2TSWiBTZvbvK8wOWUON7s75PWG-Y8aAhQZEALw_wcB

and called geico and was able to add the jeep for driving by adding it to existing policy and lo and behold when added to existing policy, making it a two car policy the rate dropped and basically the liability for the jeep is ZERO...
WILL TAKE THAT

[gmwillys]

Multi-car discounts help out. I've kept insurance on the 2A for quite some time. Now I need to break down and get a license plate for it. Nobody really cares around these parts, but it's better to be legal.

[pelago]

"One tooth should get you within the range on the timing adjustment."
FORGOT WHICH WAY, LOOKING DOWN AT PUMP C CW OR CW, IF I REMEMBER IT IS CCW, ONLY WANT TO FOOL WITH THAT DAMN GASKET ONCE

[gmwillys]

CCW. You might need to go as far as two teeth to get to the middle of the range. Hopefully one tooth will do.

[pelago]

MY NEW PRAYER. "LORD PLEASE HELP ME TO NOT LOSE MY TEMPER WHEN DEALING WITH NC DMV LAW ENFORCEMENT INSPECTORS". Wanting to be completely accurate and truthful to obtain a clear title and get tags to drive this thing, i started with DMV, in 2017 they told me that they had to inspect it to find the VIN, I explained to the officer that in this case this is a military jeep and there is no VIN, his argument was 'IT HAS TO BE ON THE FRAME" I stripped the vehicle down to bare frame and called them back, told him that i had the frame sand blasted and is ready to be inspected. Told them i was putting primer on it to prevent rust, he said he wanted to see it in a few days un painted. I said to self "nuts to that, tons and tons of work to get to bare frame, $100.00 US Dollars to sand blast and i am going to sit there and watch it turn orange due to high humidity, I DONT THINK SO" t I Put a coat of primer on it. Three days later he showed up and started looking for a VIN, told him he was not going to see a VIN. I showed him page from maintenance manual identifying location of SERIAL NUMBER FOR VEHICLE. Was then told to call them back when again ready to have them look at it for safety purposes. I BUILD A JEEP Went to DMV, and they by the way are only open 2 hours a day, got there and was given forms and told to fill them out and get a surety bond after i get two appraisals from dealers. I pulled some favors and got it "APPRAISED BY TWO DEALERS". I then started surety bond procedures and that is fun also. long story short after 225.00 i get a bond. Yesterday I am at the DMV Inspection office, with all my forms and the bond and detailed photo essay, the man i needed to see "taking day off", but he will call you tomorrow. Not having any faith in the "don't call us, we will call you deal" I called, and lo and behold got to talk to the actual officer that came out, He said "do you have the title?" I of course said "NO, that is what i am trying to do now" He then says "well we authorized you to get a inoperative title in 2017" NEWS TO ME!!! told him simply i had not received any thing from anyone about this. He then says he will swing by and take a look, i asked time frame and he said 3ish, told him i would be there from 2pm til 4pm with vehicle ready to look at. Forgot one thing, yesterday another officer copied all my documents and implied that the surety bond is not correct, under type it said "MP" or multi purpose, which is right out of the NCDMV authorized descriptions, and that was determined by a call (by the bond people) to NCDMV, he said probably will have to get a rider changing that word??? Thinking WTF, change it to what?? have not changed or obtained a rider..............
waiting patiently til this afternoon

[jeffjjeep]

DMV are the worst people, in every state I have lived. Here in New Mexico we has the wicked witch of the West and her minions running the local office. I have a politically connected friend and complained bitterly to him. He in turn told the local State Rep. I followed up with his successor, and poof. The office was cleaned out and new staff put in. They seem better. I face tomorrow the drag the Willys to the DMV and get the VIN inspected. Fortunately the data plate is intact and the serial legible.

I feel your pain.............

[pelago]

DMV are the worst people, in every state I have lived. Here in New Mexico we has the wicked witch of the West and her minions running the local office. I have a politically connected friend and complained bitterly to him. He in turn told the local State Rep. I followed up with his successor, and poof. The office was cleaned out and new staff put in. They seem better. I face tomorrow the drag the Willys to the DMV and get the VIN inspected. Fortunately the data plate is intact and the serial legible.

I feel your pain.............

HERE IS DATA PLATE, AND THAT IS THE NUMBER ON ALL THE FORMS, WE SHALL SEE WHAT THIS GUY SAYS

4137

and this guy said "that is not a vin" i said in 1952 it was, and also said show me a 1952 anything that has what you are looking for

[gmwillys]

This is probably the only descent thing about living in Alabama. Anything older than '75, there isn't a title issued. Every transaction requires a bill of sale on pre '75 vehicle. The insurance agent didn't even flinch when submitting the serial number of both our wagon and the 2A.

Good luck!

[pelago]

well, being polite might have worked, he showed up and wanted to see under the hood, not a problem sez I and open it up and he zeros n on the voltage regulator ans takes a bunch of pictures?? H e said give me a few minutes and i will type up a report, he does and i read it and lo and behold my jeep serial number is the voltage reg number.. sez i SIR THINK WE HAVE APROBLEM U USED THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR FOR THE SERIAL NUMBER THAT IS A VOLTAGE REGULATOR. Broke out the manual and went to page earmarked with paper clip and let him read the information on serial number plate location. he goes to that tag and says "that is the serial number?" (DID NOT SAY A FXXXX WORD) just remarked and said that is where the united states government says it is located...................all this paperwork i slaved over he never even looked at?????

conclusion, got the paper work to go to dmv and get tags


4141

[gmwillys]

Why do I have Arlo Guthrie playing Alice's Restaurant running through my mind when reading your plight. Glossy 8 X 10" pictures with a paragraph on the back.

[LarrBeard]

Another sure sign of a misspent youth ..

". except Alice ..."

[gmwillys]

"Just another case of blind justice...". Wasted youth is right.

[pelago]

Wiring...
have had to ohm out all the wires and most of the tags that are on the wire are either no longer legible, or gone, along with some ends. anyone have a suggestion as to re identify and label the wires along similar lines as original, have a label maker but feel they will just not last, would rather have some kind of metal on them like originals, the ones i can read lasted over 60 years...
wiring layout tedious, tedious, tedious. many hours so far invested in it. if one looks at the diagram where does #85 go at the ignition switch, just a unused wire??

[gmwillys]

#85 is an accessory power.
Go to labelmaker.com, then look for the Dump Rhyno label maker for under $5. It will make metal embossed labels that can be tied on the harness.

[pelago]

#85 is an accessory power.
Go to labelmaker.com, then look for the dump rhyno label maker for under $5. It will make metal embossed labels that can be tied on the harness.

all i get is a company that is called MORGAN-MERIDITH
label maker and printing?

http://www.labelmaker.com/

[gmwillys]

I went back and looked for the label maker that I saw yesterday, and the maker tool is $144. That is much higher than the $5 I saw it for. But I can not find where it was . The metal blanks are $5.00, and could be cut down and hand stamped.

[pelago]

two steps forward and one step back.

TWO PLUGS JUST NOT FIRING, CHECKED WITH SELECTIVE INTERCHANGE BY SWITCHING LEADS, AND THEY JUST DO NOT SPARK, WHATEVER.....BUT TIMING WAS OFF ONE GEAR

[gmwillys]

Did you reuse the old plugs, and run them through the Sonic tumbler? Seems like I remember you telling that. Every once in a while I see the military plugs go for a reasonable price. Just thumbing through eBay, there was one lot of 10 plugs for $65 plus shipping. They are on the cold range.

[pelago]

yeah, re used the old plugs, one is intermittent and one just does not fire, while on timing light saw that #1 just sometimes did not fire, took plug out and it would not spark when grounded. oh well, i dont always fire either and i am damn near same age as the jeep
going to go ahead and just order four new ones

[gmwillys]

At least the plug wires are good. Those would hollow out the wallet.

[pelago]

At least the plug wires are good. Those would hollow out the wallet.

they actually did hurt the wallet, ordered a set last year but though that the plugs were good, oh well

any comment on using m151 rims on back temporarily until i fine two rims for less than 200 bucks and correct ones on front?

[gmwillys]

As long as you stay on flat ground, you'll be alright. With the offset being different, the tires will be tucked up under the body more than your standard wheels. The tires can come in contact with the inner fender wells if the suspension is flexed.

[TJones]

Pelago,
Send or post a picture and size of the wheels your looking for and I will check with a guy here in Akron that has a garage full of Army surplus parts he bought at a auction, some of it still has cozmaline on it.

[pelago]

Pelago,
Send or post a picture and size of the wheels your looking for and I will check with a guy here in Akron that has a garage full of Army surplus parts he bought at a auction, some of it still has cozmaline on it.

416141624163

[pelago]

new topic, gas lines
metal, or rubber from tank to pump?

[TJones]

Do you need all 4 or do you want 5 and have a spare?

[pelago]

Do you need all 4 or do you want 5 and have a spare?

i have one good one and that's it need four more

[LarrBeard]

new topic, gas lines
metal, or rubber from tank to pump?

Metal - more trouble to form and bend, but if you keep water out of the gas, they are a one-time installation. But - rubber is less expensive and a lot easier to put in place.

[pelago]

Metal - more trouble to form and bend, but if you keep water out of the gas, they are a one-time installation. But - rubber is less expensive and a lot easier to put in place.

all i have seen are preformed short sections of various lines, were i to take a measurement and go to napa: do they make them to custom length Kaiser has a set for 99.00 us dollars and i already have one from pump to carb, just need a line from tank to pump. the photo in kaiser shows multiple lines? to me there should only be two??

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/complete-formed-steel-fuel-line-kit-fits-52-66-m38a1

[LarrBeard]

... to me there should only be two?? ]

Are there some vent lines and fording system lines in the set that you really don't need? GMWILLYS ... 'hep us here!

[gmwillys]

You can make the lines from the stock at NAPA. The amount of lines needed depends if on how you plan to configure, i.e. fuel shut off or not. The kit listed by Kaiser's is correct for the complete fuel system. The Military didn't follow the Civilian routing of going up the driver's frame rail, instead looped around the passenger side then across. The lines go diagonal to the fuel tank to the center of the rear floor riser. Then it goes to a 90 degree fitting that follows the riser to the passenger side frame rail and makes another 90 degree bend towards the front. There is a union just on the front side of the shock mount, then continues on to the front cross member. The fuel line sits on the lip of the cross member, (under the radiator) then makes a 90 degree turn into a rubber braided hose listed below, then to the fuel shut off valve. From the valve, it goes into the fuel pump. You said you already have the fuel pump to carb line. The fuel shut off valve is optional, but recommended, in my opinion.


Included is the diagram for how the fuel lines run. The diagram is at the second to the last on the page. Also there is a descent diagram for the vent lines, and how they run.

http://www.surplusjeep.com/M38A1/m38a1-group_3_fuel.htm

https://quartertonparts.com/products/m38a1-m170-fuel-line-to-pump-hose-8331933-g758

NAPA should be able to get you the frame clips for the fuel line. If I remember correctly, you need 7 or 8 clips to secure the fuel line.

https://store.midwestmilitary.com/product-p/8329783.htm

If you truly want to have fun, here is a listing for the vent tube lines. We wrote of this some back, and it wasn't needed, but in case you change your mind.

https://www.armyjeepparts.com/p-3621-kit-ventvacuum-set-m38a1.aspx

[pelago]

cool, and i think i can do this, lot cheaper than 100.00 (i think)
on another note am watching some two star movie about seals in columbia and lo and behold there are two m38a1's in the movie COOL BEANS

[gmwillys]

Pick you up a double flair tool, and a tubing cutter, and you can make any line you want from scratch. Buy some of the longer sticks of tubing from NAPA, and some extra fitting ends, and you'll be set. I would recommend buying a descent quality tubing bender. That will make you look like a pro.

[pelago]

lots of people indicate that a rubber connection between fuel line (steel) and the actual pump (6" or so) is needed for vibration? that correct?

[gmwillys]

It will help to make your fuel lines live longer. The fuel lines are solid mounted, but your engine moves through torque, and the rubber engine mounts. The rubber line allows the engine to move, while everything else stays put.

[pelago]

WELL, Made some driveway room.. sold all my spare body parts and frame, man wants to start a rebuild and this is a good start, all the leftover pieces and parts and front and rear differentials gone..... been a long time since i saw that part of my driveway. He said he was going to join this group, hope so, nice guy with two, great sons that when they shook your hand it was not a limp dead mackerel, impressive..

looking at the two drain holes i have one on drivers side and one on passenger side, these are like double holes and kaiser sells a kit but $35.00 and they send four i only need two? think this is something i can make? and i plan on getting another quart of raptor bedding spray only in olive and spray a floor mat, on the drivers side and on passenger side and entire back bed, comments? My thinking is as soon as a person sits in it and drags feet there goes paint and exposes bright metal to rust?
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/floor-pan-drain-cover-kit-fits-41-71-jeep-willys

[gmwillys]

You can make the floor drain hole covers pretty easily. There isn't much to them at all, basically a figure 8 shape with the ears that bend down for you to get a grip on, as seen by the ones sold by Kaiser's. One piece covers both holes, with the screw in the center. Included is a link to a photo of the covers installed on a floor pan.

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album122/Frt_floor_compl.sized.jpg

Add the bed liner to your floors. That will help protect your body work for another 65 years of service.

[pelago]

You can make the floor drain hole covers pretty easily. There isn't much to them at all, basically a figure 8 shape with the ears that bend down for you to get a grip on, as seen by the ones sold by Kaiser's. One piece covers both holes, with the screw in the center. Included is a link to a photo of the covers installed on a floor pan.

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album122/Frt_floor_compl.sized.jpg

Add the bed liner to your floors. That will help protect your body work for another 65 years of service.
that is my plan looked at mats and price is out of this world, will make my own mats with raptor olive green bed liner!!!

actually thinking i will get this to the parade.. NOV 11 2019. okay i go to parade, but where can i go to (i know brag time) show it off?? any shows out there anywhere? will have a trailer to tow it in, either camp or motel (kinda like the camping idea, got all the stuff)

also got a quorte for the complete canvas, even doors and all materials complete minus labor to put them in $1400.00

[gmwillys]

The floor mat idea is a great one. Take some wax paper and lay on the floor to create a mold, then apply the Raptor liner to the paper. When it dries, the wax paper should peel right off, then you have custom mats.

I'll do a little searching on any upcoming shows. Every once in a while, the Veteran's museum in Huntsville AL Will have a small get together. The show is small, but the museum is worth every bit of the donation it takes to get in.

I do know I need to get off my back side and get the shovel to sent off to you. Did you get any leads on some wheels? I still have a set of 4 civilian 16" wheels that we can talk about. The tires are trashed, but they hold air, and the wheels aren't rusted out.

[pelago]

MIGHT GET LUCKY ON WHEELS,,,, fella in tx said he had a set and is now pricing shipping

[gmwillys]

Good deal. Hope it pans out for you on the wheels.

[TJones]

I checked with the guy by me that has all the army stuff and all he has is big truck wheels.

[pelago]

I checked with the guy by me that has all the army stuff and all he has is big truck wheels.

gracious amigo...

got as sort of new topic, running the steel lines for fuel, my pictures dont really show how it goes from tank to pump, and i feel a decent filter is not a bad idea

[gmwillys]

The second to the last diagram has a pretty good lay out of the fuel lines.

http://www.surplusjeep.com/M38A1/m38a1-group_3_fuel.htm

A filter isn't a bad plan at all. If you make your lines, then you can put the filter anywhere you wish. I would recommend you use a clear filter, be it plastic or glass, to see when you are getting fuel, and the condition of the filter.

As far as any local military shows coming up, Denton Farm Park in Denton, NC has a military vehicle and gun show coming up at the end of April.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Denton+Farmpark/@35.5901997,-80.0692749,8z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88537f3370c89837:0xecfe3315efe07 81e!8m2!3d35.5896544!4d-80.0694651

Other than that, there isn't too much going on in the Southeast as far as musters or shows.

You may try the following link and plug it in to Facebook to see if they have anything coming up. I don't care anything for Facebook, so I can't find anything via their website;

http://www.memorialmuseum.org/about/events

[LarrBeard]

"If you make your lines, then you can put the filter anywhere you wish."

In the very best of conditions, Jeeps that sit get condensation in fuel tanks and there are gremlins that add a half-teaspoon of crud to every tank of fuel we put in the vehicle.

I second the filter idea and for my 2-cents, put it on the input (tank) side of the fuel pump. That keeps crud out of the pump. I wasn't watching everything on the rebuild of the '48 and the filter on it is between the pump and carburetor. Yeah, that keeps crud out of the carb, but I'd rather catch it earlier than that.

It's April Fool's Day and we have the better part of an inch of snow on the ground in NE Indiana. Harumph .....

[pelago]

sort of new topic..
got two shiney brand new rings to go around headlamps, however they are chromed, paint em?? sand and paint primer then paint? or put on shiney?

[gmwillys]

Prep, sand, prime, and paint to match the body. It would look like a Philippine Jeepney with chrome rings.

To add to what LarrBeard was talking about, it is true to put the filter between the fuel tank and the fuel pump. The best thing to do is to Redkote the fuel tank, then you don't have to worry about rust forming within the fuel tank. When you purchase non ethenol fuel, then the amount of moisture pulled from the air is greatly reduced. If you can not find non-ethenol fuel, then you can purchase an aditive to block or reduce the damage caused by the alcohol content. Ethenol will also eat the aluminum within the carb and fuel filter.

[pelago]

sanding and painting as we type, redkote gonna look into this..

got 4" stencils, gonna have USMC 2079603 ON IT!! That number was given to a 18yr old kid who was standing tall in front of a desk and this old sgt said "son this is your service number dont ever forget it" i haven't.......

[gmwillys]

Good deal. Redkote is great stuff, even on a brand new tank. It will keep you from having trouble down the road. I used the Redkote on a crusty M151A2 tank, after using aquarium gravel to polish up the inside. It takes some time to ensure that the inside is covered completely. Once dry, the coating is hard and durable.

The M38A1 that I had done the body work on, he chose to use his service number as well. I couldn't talk him out of using yellow stickers for the numbers. Stencils would have looked much better in my opinion.

[LarrBeard]

587 87 27 "sir"!

[bmorgil]

Thanks for your service boy's! I am reading with great interest how LarrBeard put a filter on the suction side of the pump. I remember being taught long ago that a mechanical fuel pump may not have enough suction to pull fuel through a filter. I have read on a few occasions and, seen filters on the suction side of a mechanical pump. It appears as if it works just fine for LarrBeard. Another youthful lesson shattered! There are some low resistance metal screen filters out there. I have been contemplating putting a filter there.

Thanks for the tip on the Red-kote http://damonq.com/red-kote.html ! pelago, very cool watching (well reading) while you go totally through that Willys!

[LarrBeard]

" LarrBeard put a filter on the suction side of the pump. "

As my wife reminds me, I didn't make myself totally clear. My filter is on the discharge side of the pump so any crud in the tank gets a ride through the pump before it gets trapped. And, I learned something here as well. I never thought of a pump not having enough suction to pull fuel through a filter - especially if it loads up a bit. I remember the glass bowl filters that mounted right at the pump, but I don't remember which side they were on .

With as much discharge pressure as the new pumps generate, I figured they could suck a golf ball through a garden hose....

[gmwillys]

I put my filters on between the fuel tank and the pump, to prevent crud from entering the fuel pump. In a new system, to include a new fuel tank, it is wherever you want to put one, or not at all. With the grenade size filler neck of the M38A1, even if you have the filler neck screen installed, there is an added chance of introducing trash when filling up. If a jerry can is used to fill, then your chances of introducing crap is even higher, because unless you have arms of an ape, you will get tired of holding the can while filling, unless you remove the screen to allow the spout to rest on the neck.

[bmorgil]

What are you using for filters gmwillys? I wonder if the little Go Devil gets by on a lot less fuel than the pump can supply. It is quite possible a little restriction on the suction side isn't enough to starve the motor.

I wonder if something like this would do it. There can't be a lot of restriction through the stainless. There are a lot of varieties using the stainless mesh.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-55242/overview/

[gmwillys]

I buy the cheap, clear plastic filters in bulk for most everything I run around the house and the Heeps. There is a disabled guy who sets up in a parking lot of the local feed store, and he sells them dirt cheap, so I stock up. I like the Dorman filter that you presented. It would work rather well for capturing just about anything that could cause you headaches, plus being stainless steel mesh, you could reverse flush the filter to clean it for reuse. To answer your question about being a restriction, no. It shouldn't slow down the flow much if any at all. There is different schools of thought on here about fuel pump rates psi. The new or modern replacement fuel pumps have been found to put out 5 to 7 PSI, but the Go Devil and Hurricane only require 1.5-2.5 psi to be happy. Often a fuel regulator is installed to reduce the psi down to the proper level. That is OK in the grand scheme of things, but in my warped sense of being, it is a band aid approach. With a well tuned and adjusted carburetor, the higher end of the spectrum of 5 to 7 psi is reasonable to manage. If your needle/seat and float in the carburetor are in a serviceable condition, then the extra fuel pressure isn't enough to upset the carburetor. With that being said, a perfect carburetor is becoming scarce. Most of the Carter carbs have led a rough existence, and the tolerances are loose. There are brand new aftermarket Solex carbs available, but there are horror stories about the build quality, and then the ability to properly tune the performance. The Solex are notorious for either having issues with top end performance, and poor fuel economy. You can purchase a Carter, but the price is twice to three times higher than the Solex. On our 2A, I am running an aftermarket mechanical fuel pump from Advanced auto, or whoever could get me one in a pinch at the time. Then the carb is an old crusty Carter that looks like hell, but works like a new one. To be fair, I have not checked the output pressure from the pump, but it does move fuel rather quickly when I forget that the gas gage float is out of adjustment and reads an 1/8 of a tank high.

[bmorgil]

I have a new pump from KW. I agree on the psi. 5 to 7 has always been the school of thought for float type carbs. On some racing Holley's we ran up to 10 never any more. Well pelago, a few options for the filter. What are you going to try? Let us know how it goes!

[pelago]

41784179

THERE WILL BE NO DOUBT WHERE THIS COMES FROM!!
Serious now, having a issue with distributor, when i put timing light on it starts out okay then something happens and it is all over the place, looking for a good mechanical drawing or a good blow up of the distributor, something not right in there...

[gmwillys]

See if this link helps at all;

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8845&highlight=

The stencils look great!

[bmorgil]

41784179

THERE WILL BE NO DOUBT WHERE THIS COMES FROM!!
Serious now, having a issue with distributor, when i put timing light on it starts out okay then something happens and it is all over the place, looking for a good mechanical drawing or a good blow up of the distributor, something not right in there...

I would take a look at the mechanical advance mechanism. At the very least make sure the springs have some tension to hold the weights up. If there is no tension, the weights drop down and get stuck on the plate. The timing will jump all over. Like wise if the mechanism is worn out at the pins and weights.

[pelago]

I would take a look at the mechanical advance mechanism. At the very least make sure the springs have some tension to hold the weights up. If there is no tension, the weights drop down and get stuck on the plate. The timing will jump all over. Like wise if the mechanism is worn out at the pins and weights.

i also feel that the issue is mechanical, the distributor in the engine seems to have play at the rotor of at least 4 degrees, can actually move the rotor and shaft when distributor is in the engine,, shaft where it connects to the pump? pump? shaft on distributor?
when distributor is placed in motor and tightened down one can physically move the shaft (by turning the rotor) and see it move 3/16" left and right, this is not right. I happen to have another distributor which i will put in the motor and see if it moves as the 1st distributor moves, if not i will rebuild it. upon inspection of the counter weights in the offending distributor i could see no visble wearing of the holes in counter weights and the springs seem good? This also makes me wonder if it might not be a heat issue? after rebuilding and thorough inspection and cleaning of offending distributor, i installed in engine and started it up, it ran perfectly (new plugs also) could not have asked for a better display> then after 20 minutes or so the sypmptom repeated itslef. what the heck? i do know that when i put it in i made sure the rotor was in correct position. and it just strted right up. reluctant to pull oil pump, but might have to, have a spare pump? i JUST NOW CONFIRMED THAT IT IS NOT A HEAT ISSUE. Started it cold and timing point dancing around

[gmwillys]

If you have slop in the distributor, that is the problem. I agree with bmorgil's assessment about the mechanical advance, is where I would look first. If you can turn the rotor that easy, then the advance springs are way too weak.

[pelago]

If you have slop in the distributor, that is the problem. I agree with bmorgil's assessment about the mechanical advance, is where I would look first. If you can turn the rotor that easy, then the advance springs are way too weak.
with oil pump in engine it is sloppy, but when i put the distributor hooked to spare oil pump much much tighter

[gmwillys]

You may need to install your spare pump into your engine. If you have slop when it's installed, and the end of the distributor is not worn, then the pump is the problem. When the temperature comes up, then the slop gets worse. This makes sense to why the timing is jumping around.

[bmorgil]

I would be sure the weights aren't dropping down and getting stuck on the mounting plate. If the spring tension is not pulling significantly on the weights, they will intermittently catch on the plate. They drop down and get hooked under it. When they are caught under the plate, everything get s real tight. Their is little or no advance. If they rattle up on top of the plate, the timing jumps all over because there isn't enough tension. Also I would be sure the dwell isn't changing. Worn shaft bushings, cam or loose points etc would cause the dwell to change which also changes the timing.

Just some thoughts. There isn't much to the way these old girls time. Only a few things will cause spark scatter. One last thought, I fought crossfire once on a race car that was frustrating. Look for carbon tracing on the underside of the distributor cap, on the rotor and coil. A timing light would show spark scatter. If the light is jumping all over like the occasional off the map spark off, carbon tracing becomes suspect for sure.

On what gmwillys said above about the oil pump. An engine driven oil pump driving the distributor is a known weakness in racing engines. It can radically affect spark by sending harmonics up the shaft. This is also what can happen if the condition gmwillys is alluding to exists. The pump can and will send the spark "scattering" as it chatters if it is worn in certain ways. Especially chipped gears, shaft engagement issues or impeller rotor trouble. More thoughts to ponder I guess!

My brainstorm anyhow!

[pelago]

took oil pump out and did a close visual inspection of the gears on the pump, some wear on them, but that is to be expected, but gears are sharp and clean, and the distributor goes in and is tight?. again went thru distributor and could find nothing out of ordinary or not right, assembled it all in engine and started at the moment the starter kicked, adj timing to 5D advanced and let it run for two hours, nada, nothing wrong?? beats me, but then took jeep outside and gave it a bath to get rid of pollen.

THEN DROVE IT AROUND THE BLOCK TWICE. DID NOT LEAVE ANY PIECES AND PARTS ALONGSIDE ROAD!. STEERS LIKE A TANK, BUT FRONT END NOT ALIGNED. went thru all gears, and no grinding, temp at 180. Just ran fine???

419942004201

[gmwillys]

Gal derned Gremlins. You may have threated it enough times to listen.

Buddy had an impala. He rebuilt the 327 that was in it. Fired it up for the first time and it had a rod knock. Took it back apart and checked bearings. Everything was right. He put it back together and the rod knock came back. Took the motor apart again, sent everything back to the machine shop for to be remeasured and checked. Put it back in, rod knock again. Pushed the car out of the shop, put a brick on the gas pedal, and let her scream outside the shop. Car sat out there for an hour and a half at wide open throttle, then it died. Went out to look her over, no oil pan failure, but rather ran out of gas. Put gas in, and fired it up with no more rod knock. As of 20 years ago, he was still driving the Imp. Hopefully you don't have any more problems! Time for a beer.

[pelago]

TELL YOU ONE THING THAT SEAT IS THE MOST UNCOMFORTABLE THING IN THE WORLD WITHOUT A CUSHION!!..Cushions on the way... Beer darn right

[bmorgil]

I went through mine thoroughly. Even with decent pins bushings etc, it still isn't the smoothest thing when you rotate the rotor against the advance springs. In a well worn condition they can definitely be catchy. That's good news if it stays away! If it comes back it sounds like you have narrowed it down. The oil pump seems to have passed inspection.

[gmwillys]

Seat cushions are a must.
We had a Sun distributor machine, at the Ford tractor shop. It worked great for setting the tach and dwell, then also to play around with advance springs and weights. We carried service parts to rebuild just about every piece within the distributor.

[bmorgil]

Man I havn't seen one of those for a while and, it was well used! One of those right now would definitely rule out the distributor. There is only one other thing I can think of, and that would require the cam to be changing time also. It sounds like it is running far to good for any cam related problems.

I saw where Walk's was now making springs for the seats. They looked pretty good. I gave a lad some CJ3B seats that had springs, for helping me pull the body. Much nicer feel than the foam that I have in the 3A.

[gmwillys]

I could see if there is any endplay on the cam. It will be interesting to figure this one out.... Hopefully it stays in time, and will remain something to ponder over.

I found a set of boat seat cushions that fit perfectly in the 2A seat frames. They are foam, but ride alright when the radials are installed. The seats that were in it when purchased were a set of Dodge 100 van seats. They were foam over springs, and we're really comfortable, but they need to be recovered.

[bmorgil]

End play would do it but, it would have to be a ton! I think the spec is .004" to .007". It would take a lot more than .007" to show up on a timing light more than a degree or so.

[gmwillys]

Agreed. Just brainstorming out loud.

[pelago]

I could see if there is any endplay on the cam. It will be interesting to figure this one out.... Hopefully it stays in time, and will remain something to ponder over.

I found a set of boat seat cushions that fit perfectly in the 2A seat frames. They are foam, but ride alright when the radials are installed. The seats that were in it when purchased were a set of Dodge 100 van seats. They were foam over springs, and we're really comfortable, but they need to be recovered.

I lost quite a bit of wt, and am now """got a boney ***"""", tell yo what that dams seat hurt, and i had a boat cushion in my boat

[pelago]

NEW TOPIC, GOT MOST OF THE WIRING LABELED AND READY TO PUT IN BUT FOR!!!!
15, i have two leads that are 15, both ohm out to correct pins on plug?? wth?? this provides 24vdc to main switch for lights and a lot

[bmorgil]

Your wiring diagram will get "dog eared" here for sure!

[gmwillys]

OK, found the info I was looking for. One 15 powers the light switch as you stated. I don't see another listing for a second circuit 15. I was thinking that it may have been an auxiliary circuit, but that should be circuit 39 if it were.

Here is the TM manual that I found the information;

http://www.pedros.cz/M38A1/TM9-8014.pdf

Circuit 15 Generator regulator C terminal to light switch F terminal. Page 214 - 215

[pelago]

*%@^%$$#@!$%^&**&^&ROTTEN LOUSY MISERABLE M,,,,,F...G GREMLINS BACK... Motor has run as sweet as can be drove it around block many times, pulled into garage idle steady, just sounded fandamntastic. then picked up a Air line hose/connector for carb to air cleaner and cleaned it up and put it on, started motor last evening to just hear if it sounded a bit more quiet without hearing carb sucking air and it did and again sounded great.. This am went to start and it did not want to start?? then got it going and darned gremlins back

[LarrBeard]

ROTTEN LOUSY MISERABLE GREMLINS BACK...

Yeah, it's spring and they come out of hibernation like woodchucks. I think I just solved one yesterday, but like you I am not going to claim it for a bit.

A historical note that a lot of our younger folks probably won't understand:

In Warner Bros cartoons, Bugs Bunny always won - except in one 'toon. Bugs was a pilot test flying an airplane during WWII when the Gremlin showed up. He chased the Gremlin all over the place, but in the end the Gremlin got the best of Bugs - Bugs put on his 'chute and let the Gremlin have the airplane.

But - no stinkin' Gremlin is gonna beat me over MY Jeep!

You're gonna find it - hang in there.

[pelago]

SOME NOTES ON GREMLINS
I removed all the plugs and set up the timing light to just see where it showed timing with engine in the off position, not running: to see where timing marks showed. The timing in this situation could not have been more perfect.

REPLACED WITH NEW
plugs, wires, coil, points, condenser, rotor and new cap.
visually and mechanically checked union (physical) between distributor and oil pump. very very minimum wear on gear on both pump and distributor, negligible wear, can still see machine marks from milling gears in pump, end or distributor ever so ever minimum wear, the two fit right and tight

symptom: starts, but does not run smooth, timing dancing with light, absolutely can not rev up with carb. I for one can not see how the carb, (which had been rebuilt) can have any effect, the engine ran great for a total of maybe two hours, drove it around the block, seemed to have a lot of get up and go, although i did not (make it get up and go), but it was there if i needed to, took it to maybe 25mph for three runs around block. stopped and started several times to go through the gears, no issues other than the thing drove like a tank that had too many martinis due to four tires of unequal size (fixable with tires, rims and alignment)

WTF!!!


what i need is some old master sgt with cigar butt half chewed unlit stuck in corner of mouth with Korean war vintage soft cap on with bill rolled up and oil up to elbows to open hood and wave magic hands over it and shut hood and say "fixed"

4212

[pelago]

In my 70plus years i have experienced this two times and each culprit was the dist cap, had a hairline crack in it and the motor just ran like crap. the cap and rotor was replaced on this after motor (partially)rebuilt last year. oil pressure is great and compression as it is in the maint manual. would a faulty condenser make this like this? only two possibilities i see is cap, rotor and condenser one of the three bad? Since spark is a function of mechanical action and high voltage delivered by coil. and with motor off (no plugs in motor) with starter only timing is directly as described in maint manual....

however in this test the motor off and no real revs??

[LarrBeard]

You asked ..."would a faulty condenser make this like this?" .

It sounds a lot like the '48 was acting during the time of troubles - the Gremlins had set up camp in it.

Change the dern condenser - it's just about the easiest and cheapest part to replace. 24-volt condensers are the same as 6/12-volt condensers, about .22uF, 450-volts or so. Don't be surprised if you find a bad ground tab or loose ground screw, etc.

We found a guy kind of like that old motor pool Sgt you're looking for to help us fix things. He said "Change the condenser". We said, "But it's a new distributor and everything". Being an old motor pool Sgt type of guy he replied "Do you want to argue or do you want the D%#m Thing to run?"

We replaced the condenser and it's run perfectly every since.

Until you get it to run for a while - trust nothing, they're ALL out to get you>

Good Luck.

[bmorgil]

The condenser is just a capacitor. It charges as the points break and prevents arching. If you have condenser trouble the points should look like they have been arching. That can cause a lot of headaches. Moisture can be a culprit on an old condenser. You stated you replaced it. Mean little Gremlin.

Everything you describe sure seems to point to the mechanical advance malfunctioning. Especially the "peppy" motor. If it is locking up in an advanced mode, with today's gasoline octane and the 6.75 to 1 compression, it would run pretty good with some advance locked in. I wouldn't expect any knock. The timing hopping around should fall within the range of the distributors advance curve. The advance should start at 425 rpm. it should run up to 10 to 12 degrees at 1950 rpm per the specs. That should be a total of 15 to 17 degrees at 1950 rpm.

What happens to the timing as you rev it? I wonder if it is advancing smoothly and, giving the full advance.

[bmorgil]

One other thought. Have you put a vacuum gauge on it while its acting up?

[gmwillys]

I vote for a vacuum leak or maybe plugged off? When the engine is running good, then for no apparent reason, after a non specific time frame. When you pull the distributor to inspect, it runs great for a while. I would lean to a condenser if it was more of a consistent problem.

[pelago]

DID FIND ONE THING?? WHETHER OR NOT IT MAKES A HOOT??
Have two distributors, distributor one the one that is in the motor now. Have to follow along now, when you manually move the rotor back and forth across the width of the weights like you are advancing it, there is a catch that prevents the rotor from going to full advance to no advance, does not stop it, and you can force your way thru it, but is sort of a catch, can feel it,, now only touching the rotor.
distributor 2 which is one never used because some yahoo screwed up the 24volt input with some homemade piece of crap hookup. when that dist put in hole and cap rotated as in first dist there is no catch, can not feel anything at all slowing up or down as in the first one

My Plane: remove the guts of the offending distributor #1 includinh the 24vdc input thru cap on the side, then the plate and the, coil and then see what happens????

WHAT IS THE VALUE OF THIS?? IS IT REALLY NEEDED AND IS IT ANOTHER NOISE FILTER???
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/24-volt-distributor-input-capacitor-fits-50-66-m38-m38a1 USING SIMPSON I GET A READING TO GROUND RESISTANCE WISE, THEN IT FALLS OFF.... SAME WITH VOLTAGE, THE BATTERIES IN SIMPSON MAKE IT DISCHARGE TO GROUND

[bmorgil]

You can't check a capacitor that way pelago. The Simpson (nice old VOM) charges the capacitor. The readings mean nothing. You need a scope to check capacitors.

The "catch" has to be the advance weights on the pins or more worn stuff down in the centrifugal advance mechanism. It sounds to me like that is the root of all the evil.

[pelago]

you can't check a capacitor that way pelago. The simpson (nice old vom) charges the capacitor. The readings mean nothing. You need a scope to check capacitors.

The "catch" has to be the advance weights on the pins or more worn stuff down in the centrifugal advance mechanism. It sounds to me like that is the root of all the evil.

i agree, and have rebuilt the old distributor and it does not catch at all and is smooth on the physical advancing the weights, but going to wait til manana to try it

[bmorgil]

I would specifically check to see if when holding the removed distributor shaft straight up and down, the balance weights aren't dropping down and catching on the plate when you rotate the movement. Mine did this and, a few old Fords I have worked on did also. My motor did not run but, while rebuilding the distributor I found the same issue I had seen before. This locks up the movement. If you tighten the tension on the weights (bend the spring tabs out a little) this won't happen. There needs to be sufficient tension to hold the weight up high above the plate at the relaxed position. If you have to significantly bend the tabs, don't. They will hit inside the housing if you go to far. The springs would need replacing if you can't get there. Unfortunately to really check out the mechanical advance system complete disassembly is needed. You will have ti file the pin and pull the shaft. You probably already know this!

I'll bet you have found it. If that's it at least you will have a good spare distributor!

[gmwillys]

You will win this battle. With everything working smoothly on the advance, it will be running perfectly again. Bmorgil is right on the money.

[pelago]

Is this cap in line with 24vdc another noise suppressor?

[gmwillys]

I'm not tracking your question? Going back through the conversation, you had asked about the capacitor. Radio suppression is probably a slight benefit but only through controlling voltage spikes.

[pelago]

MIGHT NOT HAVE PUT IT IN RIGHT, ON THE SIDE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR IS A CONNECTION FOR24VDC, IT IS A CAP, NOT SURE OF ITS PURPOSE, REPLACEMENT IS CLOSE TO FIFTY BUCKS https://www.kaiserwillys.com/24-volt-distributor-input-capacitor-fits-50-66-m38-m38a1...AND FOR THE LIFE OF ME I CAN NOT FIGURE OUT HOW THE ACTUAL VACUUM ADVANCE WORKS, THE DIST HAS TWO VACUUM PORTS AND THEY JUST LEAD TO THE CAVITY INSIDE THAT THE COIL AND THE WORKING PART SITS IN, NO DIAPHRAGM AT ALL ANYWHERE THAT WOULD WORK THE WEIGHTS USED TO A EXTERNAL DIAPHRAGM THAT CONNECTS TO VACUUM BUT THIS???

[gmwillys]

OK, time to eat a bit of crow. There is no vacuum advance in the 24 volt distributor. The advance is strictly centrifugal. The lines going to the distributor are strictly to vent the housing for fording. I should have figured this out sooner, but was paying more attention to the problem rather than to examine the workings of the 24 volt distributor. I have dealt with servicing the distributor, but haven't had to go any deeper then that. They are a fairly bulletproof system.

The condenser in question is the main link from the harness to the distributor. Ebay has them for twenty dollars. https://www.ebay.com/p/Jeep-Willys-M38-M38a1-Distributor-Capacitor-NOS-s18/2100872198?iid=291967413680&chn=ps

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=45150

[LarrBeard]

Is this cap in line with 24vdc another noise suppressor?

Yes. On the M38 the coil/distributor noise suppression filter was on the fire wall. On the M38A1 it changed to the coaxial RFI filter on the distributor.

[bmorgil]

Maybe a quick Electronics 101 might help. The capacitor (also called a condenser) will short any stray opposite voltage signals to ground. They have a polarity. Placed on a PLUS DC line and grounded, they will ground out any stray NEG voltage spikes (AC noise) that cause the familiar AC whine in the radio. Placed accost the points they will charge when the points break, preventing an arc.

[pelago]

Maybe a quick Electronics 101 might help. The capacitor (also called a condenser) will short any stray opposite voltage signals to ground. They have a polarity. Placed on a PLUS DC line and grounded, they will ground out any stray NEG voltage spikes (AC noise) that cause the familiar AC whine in the radio. Placed accost the points they will charge when the points break, preventing an arc.

however no where on wiring diagram nor on distributor indications does it even say that there is a cap in the 24vdc line,,,,,, just a curiousity thats all but then my manual is very limited and only covers what we called 2nd echelon maintenance in the corps, i was a electronic tech chief for 2nd mar div

[gmwillys]

The diagram doesn't show the guts of the distributor. This diagram is small, but it will give you a descent breakdown.

http://www.surplusjeep.com/M38A1/m38a1-group_6_electrical.htm

[pelago]

I believe i got it!! Running time so far two hours, not a glitch so far, actually have a video of timing light but cannot do here

[gmwillys]

Good deal! Hopefully you banished the Gremlins for good.

[bmorgil]

It almost looks like a redundant "points condenser" in your drawing. I can see however that it may have helped with radio noise. Everything was relatively low frequency AM band stuff and short wave in the WWII era. Any stray AC would wine for sure. The points opening and closing definitely would generate a little noise. Maybe the boy's were on to something!

[gmwillys]

Even in the new military vehicles, you can still pick up a him on the intercom during testing. I don't know about the radios, but they run a narrow band, but that was a dozen years ago. Some of the radios have been upgraded, but that was more the tracking equipment for anti-friendly fire.

[pelago]

WHEN I WAS WITH 2ND MAR DIV We had a issue with the LVT7 (amtrac) the audio for the intercom and radio in the amtrac had a hum this audio system converted all audio to digital for use in the system. the culprit was the shield on the cover, the gasket was a (546.00 GASKET, THAT RIGHT 546.00 US DOLLARS) IT creating a actual antenna that transmitted the audio as rf, was wierd, but new copper infused gasket that actually cost less cured it

[LarrBeard]

Excuse me, Ma’am.

May I have a large helping of crow – without feathers if you have it. Thanks to everyone who looked at my drawing of the M38A1 ignition and helped me realize that it wasn’t correct. I hope it didn’t mislead anyone.

To reduce the radio interference in the M38A1, the engineers put ALL of the ignition stuff in a shielded box; the points, “condenser” and ignition coil. To prevent interference from crawling back out of the can onto the 24-volt vehicle wiring, they put the “capacitor” on the input to the distributor – which I believe is Wire # 12 in the harness.

Hopefully this is a bit more correct.

[bmorgil]

Wow the coil is inside the box! Something I didn't realize about the military distributor. That would be a great way to generate some RF!

You are an Artist no doubt.:) Your drawings both show about the same idea, an extra cap across the points.

[LarrBeard]

The capacitor on the distributor input is isolated from the points by the inductance of the LV winding on the coil. I am pretty sure that the "condenser" is about 0.22 uF, 350 - 600 volt rating. I don't know what the "capacitor" value or rating might be, maybe someone will put one on a capacitance meter for us. It is probably rated about 200-volts or so.

[pelago]

Excuse me, Ma’am.

May I have a large helping of crow – without feathers if you have it. Thanks to everyone who looked at my drawing of the M38A1 ignition and helped me realize that it wasn’t correct. I hope it didn’t mislead anyone.

To reduce the radio interference in the M38A1, the engineers put ALL of the ignition stuff in a shielded box; the points, “condenser” and ignition coil. To prevent interference from crawling back out of the can onto the 24-volt vehicle wiring, they put the “capacitor” on the input to the distributor – which I believe is Wire # 12 in the harness.

Hopefully this is a bit more correct.



yupper, for one used schematics for the trc 75 ( a book) kinda wondered

am not going to coat the fuel tank inside, went to three places and enough material would be 300.00 us doillars

[gmwillys]

If I had to eat any more crow, I'll grow feathers. Great breakdown explanation LarrBeard. Us non radio guys can learn something. When I first got the wagon, put a set of cheap plug wires on it. It ran good, but the AM radio would pick up the interference off the wires.

[pelago]

If I had to eat any more crow, I'll grow feathers. Great breakdown explanation LarrBeard. Us non radio guys can learn something. When I first got the wagon, put a set of cheap plug wires on it. It ran good, but the AM radio would pick up the interference off the wires.

yuppsrr had same thing with my 39 ford before i rebuilt it..

still arguing with wire number 15, it comes out of loom and there aee two of them??? one goes into the ignition switch to power thru the light plug, the rest of the stuff, but got a hot wire after that??

[bmorgil]

The capacitor on the distributor input is isolated from the points by the inductance of the LV winding on the coil. I am pretty sure that the "condenser" is about 0.22 uF, 350 - 600 volt rating. I don't know what the "capacitor" value or rating might be, maybe someone will put one on a capacitance meter for us. It is probably rated about 200-volts or so.

Since that is a US Government contract vehicle, aren't the specs somewhere for the capacitor? Would that info be around? There are some Multi-Meter's with a capacitance setting, you could check a known good one. Of course if you had a known good one...

LarrBeard pointed out something. The noise capacitor is on the other side of the coil's primary winding. In stereo installs and what not it is common to put a cap on + supply lines. The bigger the better.

[gmwillys]

I'll see if I can hunt up the National Stock Number for the capacitor in the A.M.

[LarrBeard]

I'll see if I can hunt up the National Stock Number for the capacitor in the A.M.

It's good to have someone still in the business.

[pelago]

have two distributors, one has a totally messed up corroded 24vdc intake to distributor the other is new, i rebuilt the distributor with the new parts i had, seems to be running fine timing at correct point.. was told by som3one i respect for his knowledge that the points if they burn up is because voltage to points too high? in a total 24vdc how can this be? and that if distributor not connected to mechanical vacuum at pump this might cause overheating in distrubotor?

[gmwillys]

On early points system, you would have a ballast resistor in between the key switch and the coil. On a 12 volt system, the resistor drops the voltage to 8 volts to help the points live longer. On a points system, in theory the small distributor caps would have a tendency to spark ark between poles, so the ballast resistor was implemented to reduce the voltage to prolong the life of the points. On the Chrysler big blocks that I had for the derby cars, I would remove the ballast resistor to send full current to the dual points distributor. With all the wide open throttle runs, I never had one failure of the points or coil. With the zoomy headers run through the hood, I could monitor how each plug was firing by the blue flame at the tip. The system was darned near bullet proof in my opinion, because these engines would really take a beating. Using GM products was much simpler. The HEI distributors were simple to wire, but they took up a lot of real-estate near the fire wall.

Now, the 24 volt distributor is designed to take the abuse of the 24 volts coming into the coil. The coil has a resistor built in, and will help the points live for a long time.

Doing a bit of research on the distributor in your A1, and with it's weather tight design, it does need forced air vented to the distributor to help to keep the coil cool. One line either coming off the fuel pump/vacuum pump or after the PCV valve will supply you with the negative pressure. The second line is plumbed into the air cleaner. This is why your distributor has two ports, intake and exhaust if you will.