1951 Willys Pick Up

[Tim..]

I've gotten the engine torn down for the most part and there's a bad build up on the cylinder walls. I'm not sure yet but there may be some pitting. My question is, what's the best way to remove the build up. It's the 4-134 engine and I'm not real sure what the build up is. Wither it's rust or burnt oil or a combination of both. I'm hoping I won't have to replace what looks like sleeves.

Here's what it looked like when I pulled the head off.
And of course the pistons. The rings are so filled up with build up there stuck in place.

[pelago]

npot suire but if that is same engine as the one in the m38a1 i have a spare running engine

[Tim..]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I found a couple of them on line just in case this engine is going to be more trouble than its worth.
I'm trying to keep it as original as I can so I'm hoping I can get this one to work.

[LarrBeard]

Tim:

Since there are only 4 valves in the head, your engine is an F-134. One would think the flathead would be an F-head, but the "F" describes the path fuel and exhaust take through the valve path. The flathead is the "L" head.

An engine that has sat this long needs to be hot tanked to clean out as much rust crud as you can. There are oil passages that, if they are blocked, will cause you a lot of trouble. Once you get it cleaned up, you can look at cylinder walls, do some measurements and figure out whether you can do a clean-up bore or even put in sleeves. Sleeves really aren't all that big a job.

Make sure there are no internal cracks. If an engine freezes and "busts", the place it splits very often is in the gallery that runs down from the oil pump to the drive gear on the oil pump. My crankshaft had some little cracks at the flywheel flange - a little welding took care of them.

It will go back together! I don't think a F-134 has every worn out beyond rebuilding. A 'new' long block is about $3400, so let that be a reference point for you. A complete rebuild on mine was about $3300.

JEEP - an abbreviation for "Just Extract Every Penny".

But, we love them.

[pelago]

tanked to clean out as much rust crud as you can.. UNBELIEVABLY GOOD ADVICE, LET THE PROS CLEAN THAT SUCKER OUT. not expensive but sure works
i rebuilt my diesel on my sailboat and had it hot dipped and cleaned. all i can say is wow did it come out nice and clean, ready to do whatever, alll i had to do was have them rebore it to next size piston and then i rebuilt it, have ten thousand hours on it and it never looks back

[Tim..]

I talked to a highly recommend machine shop about hot tanking the block. After talking to them I'm going to go ahead and let them do all the machine work needing to be done. On the block and head. He was saying something about the crankshaft too. I can't remember what he said about it but it made since at the time.
Now all I have to do is save up a little money. I guess I'll just work on areas that doesn't cost anything.
Just got finished pressure washing 60 years of dirt and grease off it.

[pelago]

Sounds great, and when you get that puppy back time to paint it!!!!, yeah let em do the crank

[LarrBeard]

It's looking better already. What I didn't see is encouraging - the metal mice didn't nibble away the bottom of the door. The rusty red sheen is really faded paint - not a thin coat of rust.

What rear end does it have; Timken "clam shell - heavy duty" or more conventional Dana?

What condition is the bed? If it only has rust at spot welds, there is a quick and relatively cheap way to fix that.

The real mice had stuffed the bell housing on my truck full - and I mean FULL - of nests. It smelled like mouse even after several power washes.

The machine shop will probably turn the main bearing and rod bearing surfaces on the crankshaft. A few thousandths off each cleans up any out-of-round and corrosion/pitting and makes things run a lot better when it all gets back together. Oversize bearings are standard items.

And. oh by the way - there isn't any place that doesn't cost money.

[Tim..]

Here's a few pictures of what I have to work on. The drivers side floor pan might be able to patch since the metal around the rust holes seems to be sturdy. The passenger side will have to be replaced.
While the bed isn't too bad it's probably a little worse than what the picture shows. There's a couple of holes in it but all in all, it's in pretty good shape.
I'm not sure what would possess someone to abuse the dash the way they did. If you look on the steering column does anyone know what the hook is for? It's stationary with no movement to it at all.
I don't know what kind of rearend it has. Maybe someone can identify it. Notice the big hole in the gas tank?

[Tim..]

I think this truck may have been used in some kind of business. You can just make out lettering on the doors.
I don't know if the back bumper is factory or home made but I don't like it and it's coming off. At least the part that hangs down.
The back fenders have a couple of stress cracks that shouldn't be too hard to repair.

[LarrBeard]

A. Timken rear end, heavy duty - hard to find parts for. Open it up and look at it! (See pictures)

B. All of those fenders had the same stress cracks.

C. Aftermarket rear bumper. There was nothing on the rear end from the factory, but a lot of added hitches.

D. There is a stub of a radio antenna on the left front. Someone may have cobbed a radio into the dash.

E. The Hook? Maybe a hat rack?

F.. Uhggg ... bed is rough.

[Tim..]

I'm not sure if this question can be answered without seeing it in person or not. On my drive shaft it looks like it has small pit marks on it. Kind of like the texture of an orange. Is this something that I should replace or is this safe enough to put back on?
No doubt others have run across this before.

[Tim..]

Well, Its been awhile since I've been on here. Mostly because I forgot my password. I've got my engine overhauled and put back in. Other then the normal machine shop doing what they do I put it back together. my problem now is today I tried starting it for the first time and with this 6 volt system it sounds like my fully charged new battery is dead. it does have a full charge. The transmission isn't hooked up to it so no drag from that. before I convert it to a 12 volt system do any of you guys have any things I could try before converting it? I'm no mechanic just somebody that likes working on old stuff. When putting to back together I would make sure the engine would turn whenever I put in any of the main or rod bearings. Not being a mechanic I'm not sure how much force it takes to turn over the engine. It didn't seem to tight to me but then again I don't know what to tight would be. Maybe a ground problem?

[TJones]

Does it even turn over?
It could be several things but if it didn't even turn over a little bit it sounds like a timing problem.
You would have to check with one of the Elders here to find out TDC, the firing order and where the timing marks are, typically its on the cam and the crank. Like I said I'm not to familiar with the 4 cylinders but one of the Elders will know.

[Tim..]

Does it even turn over?

Yes, very slowly. It sounds like it has a dead or close to dead battery.

[gmwillys]

Did the machine shop install the rotating assembly? Are the valves adjusted?
Pull the spark plugs, then turn the engine over by hand. If the engine rolls over without hanging up through the whole cycle, (4 revolutions) then I would check the starter.
The timing marks are on the engine side of the flywheel. There is a window in the bell housing above the starter that the marks can be seen.
The driveshaft dimples will not hurt a thing.

[Tim..]

Did the machine shop install the rotating assembly? Are the valves adjusted?
Pull the spark plugs, then turn the engine over by hand. If the engine rolls over without hanging up through the whole cycle, (4 revolutions) then I would check the starter.
The timing marks are on the engine side of the flywheel. There is a window in the bell housing above the starter that the marks can be seen.
The driveshaft dimples will not hurt a thing.

Thanks gmwillys for the reply. I'm not sure what the rotating assembly is but they did install the camshaft. The valves are adjusted. I can turn the engine over by hand without any hangups. If I pull the starter and touch the cables to it and it spins, will that let me know if the starter is good without a load on it?

[gmwillys]

The rotating assembly would be the crank shaft, connecting rods, pistons, and the valve train. Some machine shops will assemble everything to ensure proper fit, then others fit everything, and leave the parts out for the owner to assemble.
The starter can turn alright without a load, but if there is a short in the windings, or the brushes are shot, the starter will not have enough umph to get the engine turning. Have it checked out by a starter rebuild shop, to at least have it checked.

Also check the condition of the battery cables. You can check the resistance of the cables, to see if it is high. If so, the voltage drop can cause the starter to act up.

[LarrBeard]

So, we're Elders, huh?

Everyone has to be someone ...

Concur with the advice to get the starter checked out. Even if it spins with no-load, things get a lot harder to do with a new engine tied to the starter. Da' book says at no-load a starter will draw 70-amps. Now, that may sound like a lot.

But, at stall - if the battery stays at 4-volts - it will draw .... drum roll please ... 400 amps! At that load even a slightly damaged brush or armature just won't work. Ditto Auto-Zone battery cables. At 19 degrees today my 6-volt battery on an engine with probably 2K miles on it cranked it to start it with no real effort. But - I did have to rebuild the starter as part of the resurrection. And, I did put on some serious battery cables..

[gmwillys]

Good battery cables make a huge difference.

[Tim..]

The rotating assembly would be the crank shaft, connecting rods, pistons, and the valve train. Some machine shops will assemble everything to ensure proper fit, then others fit everything, and leave the parts out for the owner to assemble.
The starter can turn alright without a load, but if there is a short in the windings, or the brushes are shot, the starter will not have enough umph to get the engine turning. Have it checked out by a starter rebuild shop, to at least have it checked.

Also check the condition of the battery cables. You can check the resistance of the cables, to see if it is high. If so, the voltage drop can cause the starter to act up.
Ok, I put in everything except the camshaft and valves. While assembling the crankshaft and pistons I would turn the crank every time I would tighten a main or rod bearing. no hang-ups there. I feel comfortable I assembled the engine correctly. Adjusted the valves like they should be.
I replaced the battery cables. In fact, I'm probably one of Kaiser Willys best customers. There's not much I haven't replaced that didn't come from there and I've replaced about everything. Their the ones that overhauled my starter. There's a reputable shop in town I'm going to take my starter to, to see if it is working correctly.
I did want to mention that I swapped out the 6 volt battery with an 8 volt. I understand it will work but you'll have to adjust the generator.

[Tim..]

So, we're Elders, huh?

Everyone has to be someone ...

Concur with the advice to get the starter checked out. Even if it spins with no-load, things get a lot harder to do with a new engine tied to the starter. Da' book says at no-load a starter will draw 70-amps. Now, that may sound like a lot.

But, at stall - if the battery stays at 4-volts - it will draw .... drum roll please ... 400 amps! At that load even a slightly damaged brush or armature just won't work. Ditto Auto-Zone battery cables. At 19 degrees today my 6-volt battery on an engine with probably 2K miles on it cranked it to start it with no real effort. But - I did have to rebuild the starter as part of the resurrection. And, I did put on some serious battery cables..

Thanks LarrBeard, That's the numbers I've been trying to find.

[gmwillys]

A local shop, which was highly recommend by the military vehicles preservation chapter, built a F134 for a M38A1. The engine was a turn key rebuild. It didn't run worth a crap. The bearings were all tight, the timing was off, and it leaked like a strainer. I trust my own eyes and feel. You have done it right!

[Tim..]

A local shop, which was highly recommend by the military vehicles preservation chapter, built a F134 for a M38A1. The engine was a turn key rebuild. It didn't run worth a crap. The bearings were all tight, the timing was off, and it leaked like a strainer. I trust my own eyes and feel. You have done it right!
My sintamins as well. I've said it before, I believe I have assembled this engine correctly. I just got through taking the starter off and hooked it to jumper cables. It would spin but a lot slower than I thought it should. Also it didn't seem like a strong spin. Didn't move when I hit the cable to it. I'm taking it to be tested tomorrow.
I'm thinking this is my problem.

[LarrBeard]

" Didn't move when I hit the cable to it. ... "

That's a hint - and a good one. That sucker should just about jump off the bench running unloaded.

[LarrBeard]

" I did want to mention that I swapped out the 6 volt battery with an 8 volt. I understand it will work but you'll have to adjust the generator."

Actually, the adjustment is in the voltage regulator, not the generator. IF you can find an 8-volt regulator, they are preciou$.

Do you want to talk about how to tweak a 6-volt regulator to charge an 8-volt battery? It will have to regulate to about 10.1 volts. It's not hard to do, it just takes patience. You're not going to blow anything up (probably) and it can be undone if you want to go back to a 6-volt system. 8-volts are really hard on 6-volt lights, but if you're going to go to 12-volt, it may not matter anyway.

We actually overhauled my starter twice. It was OK for a bit, but the old armature crapt out while we were trying to get the engine to run. (We did stress it BADLY.)

[Tim..]

" I did want to mention that I swapped out the 6 volt battery with an 8 volt. I understand it will work but you'll have to adjust the generator."

Actually, the adjustment is in the voltage regulator, not the generator. IF you can find an 8-volt regulator, they are preciou$.

Do you want to talk about how to tweak a 6-volt regulator to charge an 8-volt battery? It will have to regulate to about 10.1 volts. It's not hard to do, it just takes patience. You're not going to blow anything up (probably) and it can be undone if you want to go back to a 6-volt system. 8-volts are really hard on 6-volt lights, but if you're going to go to 12-volt, it may not matter anyway.

We actually overhauled my starter twice. It was OK for a bit, but the old armature crapt out while we were trying to get the engine to run. (We did stress it BADLY.)

I would like to know how to tweak my regulator to use an 8 volt battery.
Turns out my starter was binding up. I sent it back to Kaiser Willys. I'm waiting on what they say is the problem.
Thanks.

[gmwillys]

LarrBeard will be by in a bit to give you the best, no b.s. method of adjusting the regulator.

[Tim..]

LarrBeard will be by in a bit to give you the best, no b.s. method of adjusting the regulator.
As always, I appreciate the info you guys give.
Ok, here's another problem I just discovered yesterday. When I put the head on I couldn't find any clear cut way to install the head gasket or wither or not to use any sealant. I wound up putting the folded side up without any sealant. Yesterday I noticed water leaking out between the head and block. I followed the steps to tighten the head bolts. Even done it again a couple of times the next day. It even said when it gets to running temperature to recheck the head bolts and tighten again if needed. At this point, what would you guys do?
At least I am learning something as I go along this journey. Even thou it is the school of hard knocks.

[pelago]

school of hard knocks. .....
join the crowd

[gmwillys]

Where did the head gasket come from? I invest in engine kits from Felpro, and do not have any real issues. The gasket should be the same on both sides, and should only line up perfectly on one side with all the reliefs in the block. A good gasket does not need any sealer to work. There are some instances where when in a bind, some copper sealer could be used to seal up putting on a head, but this is a temporary fix.

[Tim..]

Where did the head gasket come from? I invest in engine kits from Felpro, and do not have any real issues. The gasket should be the same on both sides, and should only line up perfectly on one side with all the reliefs in the block. A good gasket does not need any sealer to work. There are some instances where when in a bind, some copper sealer could be used to seal up putting on a head, but this is a temporary fix.

I got an overhaul kit from Kaiser Willys. It came with that. As for it going only one way, if you place the gasket on and everything lines up then flip it over and turn it from side to side everything will line up again. I wonder if when I get it started and it warms up I check the bolts again and tighten that might stop the leak.
I don't think my head gasket had a makers name on it. In fact, I don't remember seeing any thing written on the wrapper. I would have thought they'd have put what side went up.

[gmwillys]

You are right, the gaskets will go either way. I forgot to look today at the head gasket I received within the pile of parts.
Ok, I looked at the gasket set I have, and it is a Crown set, and it doesn't say what side is up. Both sides are the same as far as the make up of the materials. To me, it seems a bit thin. If everything is perfectly flat, it should work alright.

[LarrBeard]

Let me put some words together .....

We'll joog that sucker up! (Technical term there for readjusting ....)

[LarrBeard]

Let's try ito readjust the regulator for an 8-volt battery.

Now, before I start – a word of warning. I’ve not done this procedure – I’ve just read about it. That’s kind of like that guy who isn’t a pilot or doctor, but he did stay in a whatever hotel last night.

Second of all, there is nothing I can find about 8-volt regulators, so we’ll have to do some mad science here. Where do we want to set the regulator charge cut-out voltage? Specs for 6-volt regulators say that at about normal temperatures (70 – 80 degrees), the voltage regulator should cut out at about 7.32 – 7.35 volts. I’ll call that 7.3 for our purposes. A six- volt battery has three cells, so that is 2.43 volts per cell. An 8-volt battery has four cells, so I want to charge it to about 9.72 volts, call it 9.7. Now, this is not going to be critical since we are using that battery to spin over a 6-volt starter and if we get it up to 9.3 or 9.5 volts, it is still an improvement over the original 6-volt battery. But, we’ll do all we can to get it to 9.7.

Let’s talk about how the voltage regulator actually does its thing in regard to charge voltage. There are three relays in a voltage regulator. One of them has three or four turns of really big wire and a lot of turns of little wire. That is the reverse current cutout relay. We won’t work on that one.

The middle one has several turns of really big wire. That is the circuit breaker. We’ll leave it alone too. The last one has a lot of turns of little wire. That is the relay that performs the voltage regulation function and that’s the one we will work with.

How does it work?

This is a bit simplified, but if battery voltage is low, the voltage regulator relay contacts are closed, current flows into the field of the generator and the generator puts out a charge current (and raises battery voltage). The relay contacts are held closed by a spring and lever arrangement. As battery voltage comes up, more current flows through the relay coil and the magnetic force on the contact lever gets stronger – just like that wire and nail magnet you made in middle school. When the voltage gets high enough, the contacts open, no field current flows into the generator, the current/voltage drops, the contacts close again …. and so on. The contacts will open and close maybe a 100 times a second – more like a buzzer than a clunk-clack relay.

What we are going to try to do is hold the contacts closed with more force from the spring and that will take more force from the magnet/solenoid to open the contacts. Generating that force will take more current through the coil and that can only come from a higher voltage across the coil – our 9.7 volts from the battery.

I would start by seeing just where the regulator is already set. And, to do that, you need the engine running and the generator hooked up. Fire things up with the 8-volt battery and see where the battery tops off. I’d guess around 7.3 or 7.4 volts. (It may not drop off all that much unless you draw it down). Once you find a starting point – here we go.

Pull the voltage regulator – tag the three wires. Take the unit to a clean bench and take off the top. Find the relay with all of the turns of little wire – it will be on the end. The picture shows what a typical unit looks like. See the tabs on the spring? Bend the tabs to spread the spring a bit to increase the spring pressure. How much? Dern if I know! Don’t get too enthusiastic though.

Put it back together. Fire it up. You should see a charge on the ammeter. Watch the voltage on the battery terminals with a meter. If we did good – it should top off higher than it did originally. If it’s not up to our 9.7 volts, spread the tabs a bit more. I don’t know just how much spring pressure we can get by spreading tabs – but we should be able to get a higher charge cutout voltage that the original 7.3 volts.

The good news is that unless you break off a tab (!!!@#$$%%#), you can put it back where it was if you want to go back to a 6-volt system. And – now you’re an expert.

Let us know how this works…..

(And, after I wrote all of that - there is a redneck way to do it. Disconnect the lead from the field terminal of the generator, take a clip lead and ground the field terminal and let the generator charge at full current for a few minutes. Watch the battery voltage and don't let it run for more than a few minutes at wide open charge...)

[Tim..]

Let's try ito readjust the regulator for an 8-volt battery.

Now, before I start – a word of warning. I’ve not done this procedure – I’ve just read about it. That’s kind of like that guy who isn’t a pilot or doctor, but he did stay in a whatever hotel last night.

Second of all, there is nothing I can find about 8-volt regulators, so we’ll have to do some mad science here. Where do we want to set the regulator charge cut-out voltage? Specs for 6-volt regulators say that at about normal temperatures (70 – 80 degrees), the voltage regulator should cut out at about 7.32 – 7.35 volts. I’ll call that 7.3 for our purposes. A six- volt battery has three cells, so that is 2.43 volts per cell. An 8-volt battery has four cells, so I want to charge it to about 9.72 volts, call it 9.7. Now, this is not going to be critical since we are using that battery to spin over a 6-volt starter and if we get it up to 9.3 or 9.5 volts, it is still an improvement over the original 6-volt battery. But, we’ll do all we can to get it to 9.7.

Let’s talk about how the voltage regulator actually does its thing in regard to charge voltage. There are three relays in a voltage regulator. One of them has three or four turns of really big wire and a lot of turns of little wire. That is the reverse current cutout relay. We won’t work on that one.

The middle one has several turns of really big wire. That is the circuit breaker. We’ll leave it alone too. The last one has a lot of turns of little wire. That is the relay that performs the voltage regulation function and that’s the one we will work with.

How does it work?

This is a bit simplified, but if battery voltage is low, the voltage regulator relay contacts are closed, current flows into the field of the generator and the generator puts out a charge current (and raises battery voltage). The relay contacts are held closed by a spring and lever arrangement. As battery voltage comes up, more current flows through the relay coil and the magnetic force on the contact lever gets stronger – just like that wire and nail magnet you made in middle school. When the voltage gets high enough, the contacts open, no field current flows into the generator, the current/voltage drops, the contacts close again …. and so on. The contacts will open and close maybe a 100 times a second – more like a buzzer than a clunk-clack relay.

What we are going to try to do is hold the contacts closed with more force from the spring and that will take more force from the magnet/solenoid to open the contacts. Generating that force will take more current through the coil and that can only come from a higher voltage across the coil – our 9.7 volts from the battery.

I would start by seeing just where the regulator is already set. And, to do that, you need the engine running and the generator hooked up. Fire things up with the 8-volt battery and see where the battery tops off. I’d guess around 7.3 or 7.4 volts. (It may not drop off all that much unless you draw it down). Once you find a starting point – here we go.

Pull the voltage regulator – tag the three wires. Take the unit to a clean bench and take off the top. Find the relay with all of the turns of little wire – it will be on the end. The picture shows what a typical unit looks like. See the tabs on the spring? Bend the tabs to spread the spring a bit to increase the spring pressure. How much? Dern if I know! Don’t get too enthusiastic though.

Put it back together. Fire it up. You should see a charge on the ammeter. Watch the voltage on the battery terminals with a meter. If we did good – it should top off higher than it did originally. If it’s not up to our 9.7 volts, spread the tabs a bit more. I don’t know just how much spring pressure we can get by spreading tabs – but we should be able to get a higher charge cutout voltage that the original 7.3 volts.

The good news is that unless you break off a tab (!!!@#$$%%#), you can put it back where it was if you want to go back to a 6-volt system. And – now you’re an expert.

Let us know how this works…..

(And, after I wrote all of that - there is a redneck way to do it. Disconnect the lead from the field terminal of the generator, take a clip lead and ground the field terminal and let the generator charge at full current for a few minutes. Watch the battery voltage and don't let it run for more than a few minutes at wide open charge...)

Ok, Lets try this again. My second attempt to thank you for that very detailed post.
For you and guys like gmwillys and others to take the time to help us out means a lot. If youall lived closer to Georgia I'd buy lunch.
I will get this truck running and I'll let you know how the adjustment went. Thanks again Sir.

[gmwillys]

Tim,
This is what we do. We all learn something from the contributions like LarrBeard's in-depth regulator adjustment. The great thing about a Willys is that the Jeep is really just a platform for enginuity. They are not like a Chevy Chevelle or a Dodge Daytona, where the VIN tells what color thread was used in the headliner. With the variety of factory and aftermarket options, there is something to learn about every day. To me, it never gets routine. We appreciate everyone's time taken to ask a question, show some pictures, or even gloat over a smoking good deal they received.

I can almost see western Georgia from our back yard. Be careful offering lunch!;)

[LarrBeard]

",..Thanks again Sir. .."

Harumph. Don't call me "Sir". I served as a Senior Chief Petty Officer in the Reserve of the world's greatest Navy for 28 and a half years. I'm not a "Sir".

And, you are very welcome. It's what we do here. When you get deeper into your project, you will find something interesting, some problem you solve or some trick to do something an easier way. Then, you share it. That's payforward.
.

[Tim..]

",..Thanks again Sir. .."

Harumph. Don't call me "Sir". I served as a Senior Chief Petty Officer in the Reserve of the world's greatest Navy for 28 and a half years. I'm not a "Sir".

And, you are very welcome. It's what we do here. When you get deeper into your project, you will find something interesting, some problem you solve or some trick to do something an easier way. Then, you share it. That's payforward.
.

I get a smile when I hear someone say don't call me Sir. I'll just blame it on my old school values. And yes, paying it forward is a very good thing.
I got my starter back yesterday. If I don't have to work I'll get to put it on this weekend.
gmwillys, If I find myself going through Alabama lunch is on me. I hear there's some good BBQ over there.

[gmwillys]

Tim,

I made the same mistake when addressing Chief LarrBeard. Old school values are abundant on here, so no problems there.

I hope that you have better luck with this starter!

There are a couple of really good holes in the wall BBQ joints here in town. You don't owe me anything, but would be up for a good lunch. The long suffering Misses and I were talking about needing to make it back out to Tybee Island again soon. The Crab Shack can't be beat. I want to haul the Heep down there to drive around while staying over there.

[LarrBeard]

A. Yessir and Yes'maam. I was watching Wheel of Fortune last night and they were featuring Nashville,TN as a theme. All of the contestants were from the middle Tennessee area. One contestant, a high school football coach the size of a small bear, always addressed the emcee as "Sir, Yes sir and No sir" through the whole show. I'm originally from West Tennessee and we learned that courtesy early.

B. "I got my starter back yesterday." Mike/KWAS is part of those old school values. He farms out a lot of rebuild work and when you're rebuilding 70-year old stuff it doesn't always turn out right the first time, but Mike does his best to make it right. And, that goes for other folks in the Jeep communityas well.

[Tim..]

A. Yessir and Yes'maam. I was watching Wheel of Fortune last night and they were featuring Nashville,TN as a theme. All of the contestants were from the middle Tennessee area. One contestant, a high school football coach the size of a small bear, always addressed the emcee as "Sir, Yes sir and No sir" through the whole show. I'm originally from West Tennessee and we learned that courtesy early.

B. "I got my starter back yesterday." Mike/KWAS is part of those old school values. He farms out a lot of rebuild work and when you're rebuilding 70-year old stuff it doesn't always turn out right the first time, but Mike does his best to make it right. And, that goes for other folks in the Jeep communityas well.

I've talked to Mike several times and he's never steered me wrong. I think I've already mentioned if this starter still won't turn it over fast enough then I'm going to convert it to 12volt. It might just be that it's a little to tight for 6volt.
It was board out to .80. I had to buy oversize pistons. Even though I wanted to keep it 6volt it doesn't bother me to switch it.

[gmwillys]

Tim,

If the starter is in good shape, the 6 volts will be able to turn it over just fine. Unless the heads and block were decked, then your compression ratio will stay pretty close to stock, regardless of diameter of the pistons. When the block and head are shaved, then the compression chamber is made smaller, thus boosting the compression ratio. A 6 volt system actually has more torque then a 12 volt. If you run into issues still in regards to cranking RPM, don't be afraid of throwing 12 volts to the 6 volt starter. The whole ignition system can handle it for short amounts of time, just make sure that the lights are not switched on, to include the brake lights. That gets expensive fast having to change out the bulbs.

[Tim..]

Tim,

If the starter is in good shape, the 6 volts will be able to turn it over just fine. Unless the heads and block were decked, then your compression ratio will stay pretty close to stock, regardless of diameter of the pistons. When the block and head are shaved, then the compression chamber is made smaller, thus boosting the compression ratio. A 6 volt system actually has more torque then a 12 volt. If you run into issues still in regards to cranking RPM, don't be afraid of throwing 12 volts to the 6 volt starter. The whole ignition system can handle it for short amounts of time, just make sure that the lights are not switched on, to include the brake lights. That gets expensive fast having to change out the bulbs.
When I took it to the machine shop I told them to do what they needed to to get it right. I cant remember what they told me they did but I would assume they shaved the head and block. I'm glad you mentioned a 12volt would work in a short amount of time.
I don't have any of my lights in yet. And as for any gauges, at this point I'm willing to take my chances. Thanks for the tip.

[Tim..]

This has been a very good day, I did get the engine running today. After getting my starter back it still didn't have the power to start it. I went out and picked up a 12 volt battery. I had to prime the carburetor a couple of times but it started right up. I ran it for about 30 minutes varying the rpms from about a thousand to two thousands rpms. According to Brian (metalshaper) I'm considering my engine broken in. Thank you gmwillys for the tip of the 12volt battery.

[gmwillys]

No problem at all. That has me puzzled about the starter. Now that rings are all seated in, maybe the starter will turn it better.

[Tim..]

Well, today I attached the transmission to the engine. My question is can you put the clutch rod operating fork in after the transmission is on?
Also, where do you guys have the negative cable bolted on? Mine didn't have one when I got it so I just bolted it to the head right below the carburetor. It wasn't long enough to really bolt it to to many places. I think it's 17inches long.

[LarrBeard]

Well, today I attached the transmission to the engine. My question is can you put the clutch rod operating fork in after the transmission is on?
Also, where do you guys have the negative cable bolted on? Mine didn't have one when I got it so I just bolted it to the head right below the carburetor. It wasn't long enough to really bolt it to to many places. I think it's 17inches long.

It is best of you can bolt it to the block. There is usually a boss with a threaded hole just behind the generator. That was the original place. If you can get it under one of the bolts holding the starter to the bell housing, that gives a good return for starter current. Use as heavy a cable as you can afford, 12-volt parts store cables are really too small.

[gmwillys]

You can put the clutch fork in after the transmission is put on, but it takes a little finesse. You will feel when the fork properly engages the throw out bearing.

[Tim..]

Well, I got the clutch fork in with a little finesse. That and a grinder, don't even ask.

[Tim..]

I'm getting close to buying tires for my truck. Do you guys know if I can use tubeless tires or will I need to get inertubes? I will be using the original wheels/rems.
I'm getting excited about the thoughts of actually being able to take it for a little spin down the road and back.
There's still a lot I have to do but I'm slowly getting there.

[pelago]

tubes and get or make a liner out of a old tube protects the tube

[LarrBeard]

I'm getting close to buying tires for my truck. Do you guys know if I can use tubeless tires or will I need to get inertubes? I will be using the original wheels/rems.
I'm getting excited about the thoughts of actually being able to take it for a little spin down the road and back.
There's still a lot I have to do but I'm slowly getting there.

Tubes ... those rims may not have 100 per_cent welds to seal them.

[gmwillys]

You have options, depending on how you want to use your pickup. some things you may want to consider;

1. What are your intensions for your truck? Are you going to drive your truck everyday? Are you going to be driving off road, on road, or a mixture? If the truck is to be a weekend cruiser, then I would go with the stock wheels, bias plies, tubes, and boots. The boots line the inner radius of the wheels to protect the tube from rubbing the spot welds for the wheel centers. The original wheels were not designed to be air tight. The wheels were not designed to have tubeless radials either. If you are going to drive your truck regularly, then you may want to run a radial tire, and change to a tubeless steel wheel. You can find steel Ford or Dodge 4X4 truck, large center wheels fairly cheap. This option opens you up to being able to run a more modern width tire, making the tires easier to acquire. The original wheels also don't have what is referred to as a safety bead. The safety bead is designed to help hold a tubeless tire to the wheel. Some tire shops will not mount a tubeless tire to a vintage wheel due to liability. Another thing to keep in mind, if you run your truck in a warm climate, running tubes in a tubeless tire is not a good idea. The heat and friction between the tire and tube will cause the tube to fail.

2. Choice of tires? Radial tires have better road manners then bias plies. Bias plies tend to want to follow every groove in the road, so you are constantly correcting the steering wheel. Bias plies also ride rough until you drive a while, and they warm up. Bias plies will flat spot faster while being parked for any length of time. Radial tires cure a lot of the wandering issues, (as long as your steering is tight, and wheels are in alignment). Radial tires are more readily available, although 15" tires are being phased out since not many new vehicles run them anymore. 16" tires are much more common these days, but the width will cause you problems being that the modern tires are much wider.

[Tim..]

Thanks guys. I doubt I'll put 500 miles a year on the truck. It looks like bias plies with a liner and tube will be the way to go for me.
I like the look of a taller, not so wide a tire with deep rough tread. Probably going to have to special order everything.

[LarrBeard]

Thanks guys. I doubt I'll put 500 miles a year on the truck. It looks like bias plies with a liner and tube will be the way to go for me.
I like the look of a taller, not so wide a tire with deep rough tread. Probably going to have to special order everything.

The trucks of that era were rated for 6.50 or 7.00 tires. When I restored the '48, I decided to go with 6.50 x 16 tires vs. the bigger 7.00's.

These folks make a good selection of bias ply, small truck tires:

https://www.stausaonline.com/product-category/light-truck-tires/

There are a surprisingly large number of distributors for their tires - generally farm tire type dealers.

I chose the "Super Traxion" 6.59 x 16LT for the rear; "gnarly tread", but it does talk to you going down the road.

For the front I chose a bit less aggressive tire since I have a 2WD and a gnarly front tread doesn't buy me anything up there. I chose the "Super Transport", again in 6.50 x 16LT. They are a lot quieter...!

They match up the truck very well in size. (My "spare" is a 6.00 x 16 recapped BF Goodrich tire I bought in the summer of 1965 that sat in the barn with the truck for 35+ years. I don't expect it to ever touch the ground...).

These are the best tires that truck has ever had on it!

[Tim..]

The trucks of that era were rated for 6.50 or 7.00 tires. When I restored the '48, I decided to go with 6.50 x 16 tires vs. the bigger 7.00's.

These folks make a good selection of bias ply, small truck tires:

https://www.stausaonline.com/product-category/light-truck-tires/

There are a surprisingly large number of distributors for their tires - generally farm tire type dealers.

I chose the "Super Traxion" 6.59 x 16LT for the rear; "gnarly tread", but it does talk to you going down the road.

For the front I chose a bit less aggressive tire since I have a 2WD and a gnarly front tread doesn't buy me anything up there. I chose the "Super Transport", again in 6.50 x 16LT. They are a lot quieter...!

They match up the truck very well in size. (My "spare" is a 6.00 x 16 recapped BF Goodrich tire I bought in the summer of 1965 that sat in the barn with the truck for 35+ years. I don't expect it to ever touch the ground...).

These are the best tires that truck has ever had on it!

Those tires on the back are exactly the look I'm wanting. I called Coker Tire in TN today and I'm going to have them send me 5.
All things considered, there not priced that bad. Now I just need to measure my rims to find out if there 16inch. I'm fairly sure everything on this truck is original so what size did my truck come with? 15 or 16inch rimes? The guy at Coker said to measure the circumference and divide by pie. I thought you could just measure from the bead on the rim to the other bead. Am I missing something? Man I hate sounding stupid.
I'm also going to go by Harbor Freight and pick up one of those manual tire changers and change them out myself. Ha, we'll see how that turns out.
I used to work at a gas station (40 years ago) and have changed out my share of tires. Although not manually.
I have put a lot of tubes in so no problem there.
I received my emergency cables for the breaks and new u-joints this week. hopefully I'll get those on this weekend.

OK, I was just reading pelago's thread and pi was mentioned. I guess instead of pie it should have been pi. Again, I hate sounding stupid.

[LarrBeard]

Trucks were 16-inch rims.

[Tim..]

Yesterday I learned what an engine stay cable was. While I was removing the engine and transmission I saw the short cable hanging off the cross member. It wasn't hooked up to anything so I just figured it was part of the emergency brake system. Yesterday while I was working on the brakes and saw how it was supposed to go back together I couldn't figure what that short cable went to. I looked at my clutch system and there was no way it could have been a clutch cable. Finally after searching YouTube I ran across this guy talking about the engine stay cable. Sure enough that's what it was. Kaiser Willys doesn't even show my truck having one. They have them for, I think military jeeps.
Anyway, for any of you that may be very limited in knowledge when it comes to working on a truck or jeep like me I just wanted to pass that little bit of info along.

[Tim..]

Today I was ready to take the truck on it's first test drive. I thought I'd go ahead and put it on stands just to see if the transmission worked. Well sadly it didn't. I think it was either stuck in one of the forward gears or I was able to get it into 2nd and 3rd. I never could get it into reverse. And the only way I could get it into neutral was to use the shifter for the transfer case. Do these transmissions even have a neutral?

I have a couple of questions if you guys don't mind answering.

1. When it was running and I had it in gear only one side of the wheels were spinning on the front and back. Mind you I had it off the ground and in the 4 wheel drive position. The right front was turning and the left wheel on the back. Is my axels bad as well? I would think all the wheels would be turning at the same time.

2. I also noticed a leak in my gas line at the connections. I'm using a (I think it's a 5/32 inch line) and I am bad about overtightening everything so I tightened them a little more but still have a small drip. Can I use that plumbers white thread tape on the connections or should I just keep tightening them until it stops leaking. I'm thinking I'm close to stripping the threads.

3. One last question. I noticed oil dripping out of the vent tube on the side of the engine cover that covers the valves. Right behind the exhaust manifold. Is that normal or should I be concerned? It would drip ounce every 15 seconds. More or less.

That about does it. I think I'll take a break from working on the drive train and start getting the paint cleaned and ready for clear coating. I also have my tires to install.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[gmwillys]

The axles are just fine. They are both open differentials. An easy way to tell when on stands is that when you turn one tire by hand, the other side will rotate the opposite direction. Under power, only one tire will turn. A locking differential or limited slip will power both wheels. The front axle is rarely a locking differential, but can be a limited slip. When the front axle is locked, it is hard to steer, due to both wheels fighting to go the same speed. When you turn, one wheel travels faster then the other. On a non-power steering vehicle, having a front locker, is a good way to break a thumb if held inside of the steering wheel.

The transmission. It sounds like there is some rust in the top end of the transmission. Pull the top cover off the transmission and inspect both the shift fork and the shift cane for rust. Since you can only find 2nd and 3rd gear, it sounds like the intermediate shaft is rusty as well. This will cause the gears to be stuck on the shaft. Without looking up the information, it seems by memory, that 2nd and reverse share the gear, so if it will not slide, you will not have reverse.

The PCV valve on the side cover should be attached to the intake, and shouldn't be vented to the atmosphere. A little oil can be expected if there isn't a functional valve attached. With oil being within the compartment, a drop or few finding their way out wouldn't be surprising. Odds are, somewhere in history, someone thought the PCV system wasn't needed.

The fuel line isn't sealing at the flair, or the flair is cracked. Plumber's tape will not do any good. Check the flair to ensure that it is the right angle for the fittings. Check the fittings for scared surfaces that will not allow the line to seal.

[Tim..]

The axles are just fine. They are both open differentials. An easy way to tell when on stands is that when you turn one tire by hand, the other side will rotate the opposite direction. Under power, only one tire will turn. A locking differential or limited slip will power both wheels. The front axle is rarely a locking differential, but can be a limited slip. When the front axle is locked, it is hard to steer, due to both wheels fighting to go the same speed. When you turn, one wheel travels faster then the other. On a non-power steering vehicle, having a front locker, is a good way to break a thumb if held inside of the steering wheel.

The transmission. It sounds like there is some rust in the top end of the transmission. Pull the top cover off the transmission and inspect both the shift fork and the shift cane for rust. Since you can only find 2nd and 3rd gear, it sounds like the intermediate shaft is rusty as well. This will cause the gears to be stuck on the shaft. Without looking up the information, it seems by memory, that 2nd and reverse share the gear, so if it will not slide, you will not have reverse.

The PCV valve on the side cover should be attached to the intake, and shouldn't be vented to the atmosphere. A little oil can be expected if there isn't a functional valve attached. With oil being within the compartment, a drop or few finding their way out wouldn't be surprising. Odds are, somewhere in history, someone thought the PCV system wasn't needed.

The fuel line isn't sealing at the flair, or the flair is cracked. Plumber's tape will not do any good. Check the flair to ensure that it is the right angle for the fittings. Check the fittings for scared surfaces that will not allow the line to seal.

I meant to thank you earlier for your reply. You were spot on concerning the top end of the transmission. The poppet (sp?) bearings were rusted and wouldn't let me change gears. I got it loose but now I need to change the bearings and springs.

[gmwillys]

No problem at all. It isn't that usual for a truck or wagon for the top end of the transmission to be rusty. The leading cause would be for water to make it's way down through the shifter. The open cab CJs have more issues with rust, but the closed cab of the trucks prevent rain from entering the transmission. One thing we all come to realize about Jeeps, there are never absolutes when it comes to problems.

[Tim..]

I'm getting ready to scrub down the paint on the truck and clear coat it. I priced out 2 liters of satin clear coat from an auto paint store for a thousand dollars. I thought that cant be right but it was. I've painted a few cars and it took me anywhere from a gallon to 5 Quarts. Since I'm not going to pay that much, I put on a few thin coats of a satin polyurethane on one of my rims to see how it would look. It looked just what I want.
Ok, here's the thing. It says it's for wood. and no doubt it is. Has anyone ever tried using polyurethane over paint on an automobile? I'm sure it will yellow over time but I don't care about that. I'll probably be sandblasting the whole truck eventually anyway. Also it will be living in the basement 95% of the time out of the sun.
Now I'm starting to get cold feet on the idea. I'm going to go ahead and do the other 4 rims with the poly but not sure about the body. I'm curious to see how long it will hold up.
I could put on a lacquer but that's for indoors. I'm not sure how long that would last if at all.
I guess my question is, what have any of you done outside of a full blown professional clear coat. Like I said, I'm just wanting to enjoy this truck for a few short years with the thought of someday fixing the body back to its original glory.
As always, Thank you.

I tried posting a picture of it but I'll never get the hang of this.

[Tim..]

Ok, let's see if I was able to attach a photo.

Well it's sideways but I can live with it.

[gmwillys]

The wheel looks great! Since you are not leaving the Jeep outside, in direct sunlight, the poly will be more than enough protection for the time frame you are planning. I removed all 6 layers of paint and some globbed on Bondo on our 2A. I used some left over rattle cans of Matt clear on the bare steel. That dose lasted a couple years before some surface rust started showing. I knocked the rust back down, and used a clear laquer to try it. I haven't had a chance to pull it out of the shed to see how it weathered the winter.

[Tim..]

I'm going to try attaching a couple of pictures to this post but since it's been so long since I have they may not come through.
Anyway, I was going to update the progress of the 51. There's still a lot to do but I'd say it's about 95 percent done.
The engine was real tight. I had to use a 12 volt battery for the first few times starting it. Now that I have a few hours of run time I can use a 6 volt with no problem.
I wound up finishing out the interior more than it came with new. And I used a polyurethane made for sealing wood outside for the body. Actually, I like how that turned out.

[bmorgil]

It looks great! Man is that a solid truck.

[gmwillys]

Looking great! The interior is well done, and of course I like the poly treatment to the body.

[5JeepsAz]

Great looking truck! Congratulations on finishing

[LarrBeard]

Very nice.

The '51 style, introduced in mid-50, was the first major change to the Jeep truck since the introduction in 1946; the rolled over fenders, the round instrument cluster and the F-134 engine.

By 51 the trucks had gone to the single bench seat vs. the two piece "Come here, Dear" split seat and the tool boxes under the seat had disappeared. The door handles were still the push-buttons that befudddle people on how to get out.