New guy here

[Ragsdale 85]

Hey guys just wanted to say hello to the group. I just picked up a 1970 dj5 with the f head hurricane. It has a 3 speed transmission and 4 wheel drive. From the research I have done these options were not available on the 70 dj5...the floor is completely rotted out but everything above is ok. Step one is to get it running. Somebody has been in there and tried to wire it, but I don't believe they knew what they were doing... I got it to turn over with a push button switch just need to get spark now...

[Boodogboo]

Welcome, now the fun starts.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks, definitely going to be a project. But at least it came with a plow so i can use it as a plow rig if nothing else

[gmwillys]

Glad to have you! Post some pictures whenever you get a chance. Sounds like there is some potential there.

[Ragsdale 85]

2203 I will try and put together an album at some point.

[Ragsdale 85]

2204 definitely going to take some time..

[Ragsdale 85]

2205 the tough part creating a new floor pan...

[Ragsdale 85]

2206 what can you tell me about the VIN??

[gmwillys]

Once you get the floor perimeter back in shape, the rest is fairly easy. Brace the body upper section to prevent twisting or folding, then work from one end to the other. the fact you have a roof, helps immensely. Keep us in the loop!

[Ragsdale 85]

That's the plan, where's the best spots to brace the upper body to keep it from twisting? Just wondering where to hook my braces to and not be in the way of cutting out the floorpans. Also a quick electrical question...does the coil receive a 12 volt source or is it stepped down somewhere? Trying to get it to fire up.. thanks guys

[gmwillys]

Usually, there is a ballast resistor that drops the voltage down before it gets to the coil. With that being said, a twelve volt coil can handle full voltage for a long time. I never ran a ballast resistor on the Dodge points distributors that I used to run demolition derbies with, and had no problems. Hook your twelve volt source to the positive side of the coil with a toggle switch, (to kill power) then power to the starter. That's all you need to start. It doesn't appear that Kaiser ran a Ford style external solenoid for the starter, so that will keep things simple. The following is a link to a good source of wiring diagrams;
http://www.jeepsurreygala.com/?page_id=1377

The picture above was of an M38A1 that was fairly well roached out as far as the floors were concerned. The body could not be removed from the frame because there was only a small patch of metal holding the cowl to the rest of the tub. The braces were 1" square tubing, welded to flat bar stock onto the forward face of the fender well, (towards the top). I added some kickers going down to the floor riser, to keep the brace stable at the rear. There was another tab welded to the other end of the brace, but drilled a hole for mounting to the dash panel. Then there was a cross brace added about six inches from the dash to make rigid. After the driver's side floor was repaired, then I was able to remove the tub from the frame. With one good floor pan, the body was stable enough to be turned on its side, so that the passenger floor board could be cut out from underneath the tool box.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for all the help, very appreciated. I got the wiring diagram off that same site, I couldn't see that the coil ran off a ballast resistor just that it seemed to go from the coil to the voltage regulator on the instrument cluster and then through the key switch. I just saw a lot about a ballast resistor when researching how to hook up an ignition, didn't want to give it a full 12 volts if it couldn't handle it. Thanks again.

[Ragsdale 85]

2226 just another before photo

[gmwillys]

No problem. We are all in this together!

[Ragsdale 85]

So you think I should be fine to give the coil a full 12 volts

[LarrBeard]

A. Google "Jeep VIN" and you will find a lot of lists. Your tag with a date gives you a "when".

B. Back in 1970, many ignition systems put 12-volts on the coil for start, then switched in a dropping resistor to run. Just to try to start it, 12 volts to coil.

C. Get a shop manual!

D. Get a KWAS catalog too!

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again pal, I picked up a resistor for the heck of it, just not sure where to wire it in, like I said the diagram I have doesn't seem to have one.

[gmwillys]

I would have no problems running 12 volt constant to the coil. I haven't burned down a coil from voltage yet. At that time, I had two 1,000 CCA batteries in parallel, to spin over the 440. Under hood temps would be to where the headers would glow, and still never had ignition problems.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again, now all I need is time... What's the best way to identify which transmission and transfer case I have??

[gmwillys]

A Spicer 18 transfer case has two levers that control the operation, ( Hi - Low, 4 In-out). The Spicer 20 has one lever that operates all the functions, (2 Wheel/2Hi, 4 Hi, 4 Low). I assume that a CJ5 chassis was slid under your DJ body, so if I were to bet, you have the Spicer 20 single lever. Both are good transfer cases, but the 20 is a common upgrade for the 18.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transfer-cases/model-20

The transmission could be any of the following;

https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmissions/manual/

[Ragsdale 85]

Seems to have the Spicer 18 has two sticks and the brake on the output shaft

[gmwillys]

That's why I don't gamble much. Since you have a Spicer 18, then you most likely have a T-90 transmission.

[Ragsdale 85]

Real quickly this morning I jumped the coil with 12 volts, cranked the engine, and got nothing...replace the coil? Should I check spark from the coil wire , or one of the plug wires? Thanks again

[51 CJ3]

It doesn’t really matter where you check spark at but I think I would check spark at the plug because that is the fastest way to confirm if the ignition is working. If there isn’t spark at the plug then I would start troubleshooting the ignition system components starting with the coil and working down stream.

[gmwillys]

I concur. The plugs are the easiest place to start. If the spark isn't there or yellow, check the points. A simple touch up of the contacts with some sand paper or thin file, usually cures a dim spark. While you are in the distributor, check the rotor button, the rotor contact, and the cap. All can be touched up with sand paper. Do all this before spending a dime on a tune up kit, because if the engine has deeper problems, you wouldn't have spent any money on consumables.

My wagon has a points distributor. Whenever it was parked for any length of time, the points and distributor cap would need a touch up before attempting to start. If not, you would have to crank for a while before it might fire. A quick touch up, and filling of the fuel bowl through the vent on the carb, and she would fire every time.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again guys, I checked both spots same result no spark, I haven't done anything inside the distributor yet.

[Ragsdale 85]

Another quick question...my voltage regulator mounted on the firewall has 2 terminals on the bottom side and 1 terminal at the top, according to my wiring diagrams they have letters assigned to them, I don't see any labeled in it. Just trying to trace my wiring to make sure they are hooked up in the correct terminals. Thanks again guys, sorry to be such a pain.

[gmwillys]

Please, don't hesitate to ask. The tabs that the screw goes through on the regulator usually are stamped what they are for. The top, single terminal is the BAT. The bottom left goes to the Armature, and the bottom right goes to Field.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/electrical/voltage-regulators/voltage-regulator-12-volt-fits-41-66-jeep-willys

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again guys, hopefully I will get more time in the shop this weekend. I will keep you updated!

[Ragsdale 85]

2238where is this line supposed to attach, comes from the intake below the carb, it's just cut/ crimped off.

[51 CJ3]

Just guessing but it could be the vacuum source for the original windshield wipers.

[Ragsdale 85]

Okay so 12 volts across the battery...wire from battery+ to the coil +, coil - to distributor. Crank the engine, no spark.

[51 CJ3]

See if the coil wire going into the top of the distributor will spark to the block. Be careful, it can be quite a jolt.

[Ragsdale 85]

Just pulled off the distributor cap to check points gap, bumped it, I get spark from the points, cap and rotor look ok. 2239. How do the points look? I can't seem to get any further gap out of the points, I woul loosen the crew closest to the point contacts and then move the cammed screw next to it correct?

[51 CJ3]

Can't really tell from the picture. Need to see across the face of the area where they make contact. If they are bad they will look burned or be pitted. This link is to an aircraft page but don't let that bother you, points is points http://www.flight-mechanic.com/spark-plug-inspection-and-maintenance-breaker-point-inspection/

If the points are sparking, you should be seeing something at the plugs. You might try a different plug or wire.

[51 CJ3]

I missed part of your question or your edit, not sure which. I wouldn't loosen the screw unless I was adjusting or replacing. The arm can be pushed back far enough to look at the surface without hurting it. It is spring loaded so it will return as long as it doesn't get bent. If you have a manual handy, look up the point gap for your engine. A feeler gauge that thickness should slide into the gap at the widest position achieved by turning the engine.

ADDED: I believe .020 inches for the point gap.

[Ragsdale 85]

The gap is too small I cannot get my feeler gauge between the points when it is open, when I loosen the screw to adjust them the still do not open far enough. I did switch the wire I was looking for spark on to another cylinder I was able to get one good spark then back to nothing..

[51 CJ3]

If it is the same as mine there are actually 3 screws to mess with. Two hold the points in place and one to make the adjustment. Hopefully this picture will help.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for all the help, going to go back out in a little bit and mess with it some more. Thanks again.

[51 CJ3]

No problem. I am stalling this morning anyway. If I go outside I will be washing parts in ice cold avgas.

[Ragsdale 85]

Is it possible for my lobes on the distributor shaft to be worn? My rotor button was pretty loose on the shaft but I wedged it tight with some black tape on the flat spot. Is just that piece replaceable?

[51 CJ3]

I will have to pass that one off to someone else. I would assume everything is replacable but changing points and condenser is as far as I have ever gone on one of these.

[Ragsdale 85]

Was able to adjust the points with some modifications, they are definitely worn out a bit, with that said I was able to fire her up!! Dumped a little fuel down the carb and she started. Thanks for all the input and help, now for the long road ahead of fabrication and the electrical nightmare. I will keep you all posted and there will be many more questions.

[Ragsdale 85]

Next question guys, I know so soon. lol. Lifted the Jeep up put the driveshaft back in, it was removed for the tow over....go to spin the driveshaft , no movement from the output of the transfer case in any gear....put a pry bar in the u-joint to break it free. Didn't take much force. Now can spin the output in any gear, clutch engaged or disengaged....pulled the inspection plate off the top of the bell housing and clutch lever action looks good. I can spin the engine and see the clutch and input shaft of the trans spin just no output to the rear wheels... sorry if this is confusing.... If I pull the top cover off the trans am I getting in to deep? Or is it pretty straight forward?? Trans is a T-90, transfer is Spicer 18 as far as I can tell.thanks again, maybe I'm making it to complicated

[51 CJ3]

It’s been close to 30 years since I had one open. I don’t remember thinking I was in over my head although, if you are just trying to isolate where the disconnect is, it might be better to pull the rear circle cover (if there is not a pto or overdrive installed). There you would be able to see if there is anything getting to the transfer case. I would pull the drive shafts or put it on blocks in case something unexpected happens.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again, I will have to take a look, I'm hoping the t-case is just in neutral the hi-low-neutral stick doesn't seem to move to easy, I can go shift in and out but not hi or low. I'm just trying it by rolling the Jeep for now not with the engine running yet, trying to make sure all systems are working, due to no coolant in the engine and no brakes...

[gmwillys]

A lot of old Jeeps have a hole punched into the passenger floor board , in line with the transfer case shifters. I know my 46 had the hole, and a piece of 1/2" rod to pry the levers in and out of gear at the transfer case. Some good penetrating fluid and they move easily now. If the lever is half in gear, it can cause your issue with the out put being locked up. Also now it is most likely is stuck in neutral. Odds are, there is nothing wrong with the transmission.

[Ragsdale 85]

Yes, I agree, seems to be the hi-low-neutral stick won't shift. The stick itself is free, and the plunger moves slightly. How hard can I pry it before something breaks....

[gmwillys]

It may take a bit of pressure to get it into gear. I wouldn't take a hammer to it, but steady pressure. If there is someone who could push the jeep slowly, that would help things along. Sometimes the gear is lined up to where the teeth are not meshing together. If that doesn't help, then spray a bunch of penetrating oil around the shaft going into the transfer case. The penetrating oil will not do much good if there is rust around the slider, but it will free up the shaft if there is crud on it.

[Ragsdale 85]

Problem solved guys, decided to drain the transfer case, pulled the plug and got lots of chunks, luckily it was all ice chunks, lol. Put the space heater to it for a while till the dripping stopped. Works smooth. What do you run for gear oil in these? Thanks again guys your a big help.

[Ragsdale 85]

Next question is in the brakes....the previous owner has cut the front brake lines and has run one line to each rear wheel, very sloppy at that. Didn't even use the rear hose just left the lines extra long for suspension travel. I assume one port from the master goes to the rear and the other to the front? What grade brake fluid is used? Thanks again guys!!

[51 CJ3]

WOW!!! I would never do away with the front brakes. Most of the stopping power comes from them not to mention locking up the rear can cause a person to lose control. NOT SAFE!!! I currently run brakes on just the front (disc conversion). Mine has a plug in the port that would go to the rear.

My service manual only goes to the DJ3 so telling to you to use dot 3 may easily be wrong.

[gmwillys]

Transfer case takes mineral based 80W 90 gear lube. Synthetics are hard on the bronze bushings within the transmission and transfer case. The transmission and transfer case share oil, so fill at the transmission side plug until oil starts running out of the plug.... Then you know that the transfer case has enough oil.

Dot 3 works well for general use. There is Dot 5 synthetic, but it requires the system to be flushed completely of Dot 3. They are not compatible. I use Dot 3 on my CJ2A, and have not had too many issues. There are folks that swear by Dot 5, but others who claim it is hard to bleed air from, and is hard on brake light switches. I would personally stick with Dot 3 on an older system.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again guys. Whoever had it before me just used It as a plow rig I would say. Also the fuel pump is a little electric one mounted to the fender...the plate covering the mechanical pump on the engine looks like it's been there for a long time, so I assume it ran good on the one that's there, anyone use an electric pump instead of the old mechanical ones?

[51 CJ3]

I haven’t personally but I use to know guys who did. One even had one rigged with a hidden switch that he referred to as his “anti-theft device”. None of them ever had any trouble that I am aware of.

[gmwillys]

I used a simple electric fuel pumps on all my derby cars. No problems what so ever. $40 and some change. Just make sure that the pump is mounted within 12" of the fuel source for best results.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_pumps_regulators_and_filters/fuel_pumps/carbureted_fuel_pumps/carbureted_electric_fuel_pumps/parts/12S
I would wire the pump separate from the ignition, so if the engine was flooded, or just wanted to run the carb out of gas, no problem. Then you can hide the switch for an added theft deterrent.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for the info, will probably run an electric pump, was curious on where to put it. I was thiking closer to the tank. Thanks

[gmwillys]

The pumps are designed to push fuel, and not pull it. That's why they want them close to the source.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again guys, just trying to get a parts list put together as I start the long road ahead of body work. What grade engine oil should I use? And I assume 80-90 weight gear oil for the front and rear differentials?

[gmwillys]

Engine oil that I use is a SAE 30 Non detergent oil. Tractor Supply caries it in a five or six quart jug. It is fairly inexpensive, and will not create leaks from cleaning out the protective sludge keeping the oil inside the engine. If it were a recently rebuilt engine, then you are free to use what you like. For those applications, I like to run SAE 30 Valvoline.

80W-90 will work for the differentials, but have used 75W-140 synthetic for extreme duty, because that's what I keep around for the daily drivers.

[Ragsdale 85]

Anyone have resto pics of their floor pans? Just looking to see what and how others have done. The rear pan will be easy enough but someone has patched the front in the past, not sure how much original metal I have left to work with. Thanks guys

[Ragsdale 85]

What's everyone using for body mounts?

[gmwillys]

Here is some pictures of some floor replacement. For the body mounts, we ordered the rubber isolators, then used grade 8 hardware.

[Ragsdale 85]

Looks like that was a lot of fun, started the body work on mine yesterday. Once I'm done with the rear floor pan I can get started on the fronts. Thanks for sharing.

[gmwillys]

Another point of reference is the M151A2 photos that I have posted in the gallery. Being that the A2 is of a unibody construction, a lot of the process is still the same. It is not that difficult. Take lots of measurements, and invest in some magnetic dial angle finders to ensure nothing gets out of whack. This will pay off in the long run.

[Ragsdale 85]

2268 got the rear pan out if the way and ready for a new rear floor,had to take about an 1 1/2" off the bottom wheel wells due to rot. Welded a piece of 3"x1/8" flat steel to make up the stuff I cut out and give me something to weld to. Used angld iron welded to that where my flooring will set. Can't see it in the pictures but welded in a 1x3 boxed tubing as a cross member where my body mounts are, and another at the rear. It's going to be Overkill but shouldn't have to worry about it breaking.

[Ragsdale 85]

2269 over kill cross members...

[Ragsdale 85]

2270[ATTACH definitely going to be strong enough.

[gmwillys]

Looking good. Overkill is alright. It will last a whole lot longer than the original.

[Ragsdale 85]

Going to build the front pans using 1" boxed tubing frames and 14 or 16 gauge sheet on top. The floor of this thing should out last the rest of it.

[gmwillys]

When you run your replacement hat channel, (the 1" square tubing) one thing that comes to my mind to consider. When you drill for the mounting hardware, over bore the hole, and sleeve with section of pipe. This would add to the overall strength of the frame. Do you have to, no. Your 1" square is plenty strong, but the pipe will prevent water intrusion into your frame work. When I replaced the hat channel on the M38A1, the original hat channel was strengthened with pieces of white oak. Being that the heeps were never designed to last forever, that was a cheap and easy way to reduce costs. The down side, water soaked into the wood, and dissolved the hat channel from the inside out. Long story short, I didn't use any non ferrous material when fabricating the channel. I did cut some steel pipe spacers to prevent the hardware from deforming the channel when tightening. The channel received several coats of primer and rust preventative before being welded into place. Another quick tip for when you fuse the floor sheet metal to the sub frame, use weld through primer. The stuff works really well, in my opinion.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for the tip, didn't think about using a piece of pipe as an insert to keep it water tight...much appreciated. We will see what happens haven't quite decided on how to go about building the boxed frame yet but seems to be the best way to go about it. Trying to decide to go with 14 gauge or 16 gauge sheet metal.

[gmwillys]

18 gauge is the original thickness, but is hard to find in quantity. I would be comfortable to use 16 gauge because it would form better for the bends needed, but could see where you would want the 14. 14 Gauge will last longer, and offer more structural fortitude.

[51 CJ3]

I have been working with a lot of 14 gauge lately building work benches, hangar doors and such. It’s easy to weld but hard to shape if it needs to be fitted by bending.

[Ragsdale 85]

2289[/ATTACH[ATTACH=CONFIG]2289 didn't get much time in on the Jeep this weekend, but did manage to get most of the front flooring out.

[Ragsdale 85]

2290 hopefully will get more done next weekend.

[gmwillys]

Looking good. Looks like the cowl supports and frame are in decent shape. The driver's side body mount,(where the clutch spring mounts) needs to be brought back into shape, but other than that, everything looks good. You'll have a good foundation for your new floor.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks. Yeah will have to replace or strengthen up a few of the mounts for sure. Once I get the floors done I will be able to remove the body from the frame to take care of a few spots, the last foot or so of the driver's side needs replacing, and my rear spring mounts are in pretty bad shape.

[Ragsdale 85]

Managed to get some time on the Ol' Jeep yesterday made some good progress. What is normally used as stops for the pedals, how far back should they be allowed to come?23022303

[gmwillys]

The clutch pedal stops at the floor board, when fully depressed. When the clutch is released, the lever that the pedal mounts to usually comes fairly close to the underside of the floor board, depending on free pedal adjustment. The clutch return spring will make a difference also on how far up the clutch returns upward. The brake pedal will typically make contact with the floor board when released. Originaly, there were light springs installed on the pedal stems to keep them from slamming into the floor board.

Your progress is looking good.

[LarrBeard]

I'm not a 'little Jeep" guy, so an expert may correct me.

It looks like the '70 CJ still had a standard point style system. Battery goes to the + terminal of the coil. (Polarity does matter some). The other terminal of the coil goes to the distributor where the points and condenser do their things. Don't ignore the possibility of a bad condenser.

There may be an ignition ballast resistor in the circuit. That is normally bypassed when the key is in the START position. To get it started, you can just connect the + terminal of the coil to the + post of the battery. One way to check for spark is to put a plug wire with plug in the top terminal of the coil, clip the battery to the + terminal and open and close the points with a tool of some kind. Ground the plug and see if you get fire.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks. Just wondering if there was a factory stop for the pedals, with out the floor in it now the come back way to far. Was wondering if there was a pedal stop or not.

[gmwillys]

Usually with the stock (worn out) spring, the pedal mounts sit just right with the floor, in a neutral position. If a new spring is installed from the down town hardware store, then it is a tad too short. Not a big deal, but it would mess with your floor placement. Zip tie the pedal mounts to where they are just out of the way, but close enough to mark the holes for the pedals to go through. That will make life a little less troublesome. Also, check that the bushings are not hogged out from lack of grease. There should not be any wobble to the pedal mounts. This is often an area where maintenance is missed when greasing. It would be a whole lot easier to remedy the bushings now, while the floor is out. Just a hard learned lesson shared.

[lessonstar]

brake-problems:http://www.myautorepairadvice.com/brake-problems.html

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again guys for the input, will get back at it next weekend.

[Ragsdale 85]

2304 a few more braces and I should be able to lay down some sheet metal, trying to decide on how much tunnel I need to put back into it. Anyone have pics of the floor board around the pedal area?

[gmwillys]

Here is some photos of the driver's side floor board before and after it was installed. This is an M38A1, so the transmission tunnel is slightly different because the military wanted a larger access cover, but the shape is generally the same.

[Ragsdale 85]

Looks good, great job. Thanks for the pics. I should be able to tab something up,there wasn't much left of the driver's side, not only was there rot but torched holes as well I'm guessing it was easier for the previous owner to make the holes around the pedals bigger rather than replace the rotting mounts to bring it back up where it should have set.lol

[gmwillys]

Thank you! There was nothing left after all the rot was removed. My best advice is to tack everything together, then triple check everything. When I put in the driver's side floor, I had checked everything except the left rear section, around the fuel tank sump. I was about three quarters of an inch high. Had to go back and cut out all the rear welds and straighten it all out. Then when I was installing the passenger floor, I got too much in a hurry, and put too many welds close together. The floor heaved up around the tunnel line from the bottom. Didn't notice it until the tub was turned over to finish the underside. Had to heat the section and beat it back down, then metal finish the hammer dings out. It takes three times as long to fix a job that could have been done taking twice as long as expected, to do right the first time.

[Ragsdale 85]

Definitely takes time, luckily I'm not going for 100 % factory restoration, just need it to function and look good. Nothing but tack welds for now hopefully I can get the floor in Sunday. Then to tackle the frame, sloppy pedals, brakes, etc...long road ahead.

[gmwillys]

Your floor will be easier since you have chosen to use heavier material to work with. It will take more heat without causing you grief. You'll do just fine.

[Ragsdale 85]

Got a few more braces in today, just have to finish welding everything up, then I will be ready to lay down some sheet metal.

[Ragsdale 85]

2338, never enough time in a day... hopefully will be able to get back at it tomorrow.

[gmwillys]

Looks good. The grid system will definitely be a lot stronger than the original. It will last a whole lot longer too.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks, that's what I'm going for.

[Ragsdale 85]

Well still no floor, didn't get much time on it this weekend as I wanted too. Alot of making sure things were squared up and in place before all the final welds. Will keep you posted.

[gmwillys]

I know the feeling. I bought enough sheet metal for everything that needs attention on the wagon, and haven't sat down and cut one piece as of yet. Figured I would have had the rust all repaired by spring, no dice. At least I did get all the suspension stuff ordered, and awaiting time for installation.

[Ragsdale 85]

Managed to get a chance to work on the Jeep today.237123722373

[gmwillys]

Looking good! Keep up the good work!

[Ragsdale 85]

23802381got a little more time in today!!

[gmwillys]

Your floor is really coming along well. Good job!

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks man, nothing's welded in yet, it's been in and out a few times to get it to fit right, I am pleased with the outcome so far, just need to figure out the holes for my pedals and then the tunnel area. Pedals are tricky right now due to them being slopped out, thinking I'm going to have to fix them before I get too much further.

[gmwillys]

I agree. When you get the bushings sorted out, then your pedal openings will be much easier to sort out.

[Ragsdale 85]

Made some progress on the Jeep today, got most of the slip out of the pedals for now. Was able to get the front floor pans welded in. Started messing with the brakes... unscrewed the master cylinder cap and filled the resivoir, when I push down the pedal fluid squirts out if a tiny hole in the cap?? Is this the vent or maybe an actual hole?

[LarrBeard]

Made some progress on the Jeep today, got most of the slip out of the pedals for now. Was able to get the front floor pans welded in. Started messing with the brakes... unscrewed the master cylinder cap and filled the resivoir, when I push down the pedal fluid squirts out if a tiny hole in the cap?? Is this the vent or maybe an actual hole?

Uhhhh, I don't think there should be a hole in the cap. I've never seen a vented master cylinder cap, but I've not been around a lot of the "little" Jeeps.

[gmwillys]

The only master cylinder cap that I can think of that is vented is the ones for the M38A1. The hole should be a 1/8" pipe threaded hole that ends up vented in the air cleaner for fording. Other than that, the plug should be solid.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks, It didn't make much sense to me....Im going to mess more with them today if I get the chance. I will take some pictures as well. There wasn't much fluid in it before but there did seem to be some pressure, now I seem to have more pressure but it squirts fluid with every pump....

[Ragsdale 85]

242324242425 definitely seems like the hole was made to be there. ..

[gmwillys]

I'm getting a better understanding to what you have. I believe what you have is a later version of the master cylinder than what the earlier Willys used. Our CJ2s through CJ3s use a solid cap that is not vented. Yours is vented, but should have a bronze filter underneath the silver diverter. A couple of questions that I have, (1) does the master cylinder seem to make enough pressure to hold a good pedal?....I imagine that may not be known yet because the brakes may not be bled as of yet. (2) When the cap is off, and the pedal is applied, is there a slight fountain created, or is there a large amount pushed upward. The reason why I ask, is that there is a possibility that the piston or the cylinder surface may be scared enough to allow pressure to bypass the piston and be diverted into the reservoir, then out the top.... Path of least resistance. The silver diverter on the bottom of your cap should redirect the slight fountain back down into the reservoir, where it belongs.

If there is an over abundance of fluid being pushed back into the reservoir, then there is a rebuild kit that can be purchased to rebuild your existing master cylinder. This would require a brake hone to true up the cylinder. The after market master cylinders are good, but I would recommend an American made Wagner brand, rather than the Crown Chinese made units. The Chinese cylinders are alright, but often times the mounting bosses are slightly off. Not a big deal, but a slight aggravation. The Chinese wheel cylinders are even more of an aggravation.

[Ragsdale 85]

I am going to mess with it a little more, I did take the cap off and apply the pedal, there was a decent fountain, seem s like a decent amount of pressure at the pedal....I have to pull my drums and check the shoes etc, also both ports ate still run to the rear wheels, so I have some work to do.. I did remove the plate in the cap and there was nothing under it...

[Ragsdale 85]

Well I don't know what I did..maybe it was over full? Doesn't squirt out anymore and seem to have good pressure coming out the rear bleeders. Have to get a brake hose for the front then I can plum in the lines correctly.

[gmwillys]

Sometimes the simple answers can get overlooked by all. With the location of the master cylinder, in relation to the toe board, it isn't hard to overfill the master cylinder. I've done it most every time I fill the reservoir. Without having a vented cap, none leaked out....At least I couldn't tell for what was slopped on the floor from overfilling.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks, don't know why I didn't think of it being over full to begin with but oh well... at least the master is good and working, thought it looked fairly new.

[gmwillys]

If that was the worst thing that happened, then you are doing well.

[Ragsdale 85]

Well hopefully I can get back at it Sunday, getting more and more excited with each step I complete. Going to try and get the front lines plumbed in and all bleed, rig up a fuel tank and see if I can get it to run and move under it's own power. Then time to tackle the frame and suspension.

[gmwillys]

I keep trying to make some time to work on the floor of my wagon, but there is not enough time in the day. With all the town torn up from last week's storms, just about every day has been spent behind a saw, cutting up trees.

[Ragsdale 85]

I hear you, never enough time....I will be busy working on something else today, have exhaust and front diff work to do on my father in laws grand Cherokee. Hopefully I can get the DJ back in the shop for tomorrow.

[Ragsdale 85]

Got the ol Jeep in and was able to pull the front wheels off, looks like I'm going to have to get wheel cylinders, there froze up solid. Shoes and hardware look good, just the cylinders got full of rust and debris sitting all that time with rotted off lines. The front lines were in a brass block with 4 ports one to each wheel, one to the master, what is the other port for??

[gmwillys]

It sounds like that somewhere along the line, someone put in a distribution block from something else in there. Willys through early AMC used two ports coming off the master cylinder. One went forward, and the other went rear. The only T in the system was at the rear differential pumpkin, and the axle tube on the front, where the rubber flex hose from the frame lines attach. If you were adding disk brakes, then there would be a proportioning block added to make up for the different needs of the disk brakes compared to the drum brakes.

The only other thing that comes to mind would be if there was a pressure regulated trailer brake unit installed. The older units took its sense from the brake system. There was a line run off a T or block that fed into a steel brake line, then run up into the cab, to the brake controller.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for the reply pal, I couldn't see a reason for a 4way distribution but who knows with this thing....always finding something.

[gmwillys]

No problem. My CJ2 had all the original brake components, but the right rear was crimped off at the wheel cylinder. All I could find wrong was the bleeder was seized. This brings me to my next point of advice. When buying brake components, spend the extra money and purchase American made wheel cylinders. The Crown or Chinese stuff works alright, but the fitment is terrible. The mount holes and bleeder do not line up with the brake backer plate. I've done it, but it doesn't make me happy. Most of your local parts houses carry Wagner Brake components, and they fit like the originals.

[Ragsdale 85]

Having trouble tracking down some wheel cylinders locally....my style wheel cylinders have the screw in style hoses with the copper washer. Local guys seem to think they were rear cylinders someone has put on the front at one point. Any suggestions

[LarrBeard]

A quick look in the catalog (2018;page 113) seems to show several different wheel cylinders (front; self-adjusting and non-self adjusting, left and right rear).

I'd call Mike at KWAS and get his advice on what goes where.

[gmwillys]

Is there a mount on the axel knuckle for the steel S line from the wheel cylinder to go? Then the hose mounts to the S line from there. Curious to see if the axel may have been liberated from another breed of 4X4. Could be a Scout 80/800, or an early Bronco axel. Who knows, the previous owner may have cut the mounts off, and ran the hose directly to the wheel cylinder, the washer is there to take up some room when the hose bottomed out.

[Ragsdale 85]

There doesn't seem to be any brackets on the axle, just the bracket on the frame for the hose, the driver's side hose was rotted off...nothing left other than the end screwed into the wheel cylinder, and the end clipped into the frame bracket. The passenger side was still all there. Appears to look factory. My guess is that the tub and frame are not original to each other which would explain why some of the mounts were moved and welded. Im guessing an earlier model cj5 frame. I will try to get some axle pics when I can.

[Ragsdale 85]

2431243224332434

[gmwillys]

Early Bronco is ruled out being that the Bronco is a driver's short side as opposed to the passenger short side. What's throwing me off is the depth of the lip of the backer plate dirt shield. A early International Scout 80/800 is a passenger side pumpkin, but the brake dirt shield is not correct either. The diagram on Kaiser's site for the CJ5/6 does appear to match the appearance of the backer plate, but a Google search for the backer plate does not look the same. I would conduct a search on the casting numbers on the axle itself, then at least then it can be identified for where exactly it came from.

[Ragsdale 85]

I will have to look for some numbers I guess... thanks again guys!! I knew it would be loads of fun.

[gmwillys]

Here is some added information on the most common axles out there, along with where to find the numbers.

http://www.differentials.com/technical-help-2/differential-identification/

or for visual reference;

https://www.quadratec.com/jeep-factory-axle-identification-chart

[Ragsdale 85]

Found the numbers on the wheel cylinder24472448 it's a Wagner Lockheed FD9006, the local parts guy still hasn't come up with one. Anyone have a good cross reference for these? I did manage to find one online for 80$ seems a bit much.

[Ragsdale 85]

2449 can make out most of the numbers in this pic...2450

[Ragsdale 85]

Looking through the Kaiser catalog, the cylinders seem to fit the description for those that fit the 53-66 cj-3b,5, m38a1 guess I will have to give those a try if my parts guy doesn't come up with something. These say they accept the front flexible hoses, and have the 60 degree port. Only thing is the bore size is 1" mine seem to measure up at 13/16.

[gmwillys]

The 1" bore will mean that you have more surface area for improved braking. Usually the 1" is paired with the 11" brake set ups. 13/16" would be more common with the 9" brakes.

[Ragsdale 85]

Well no luck on the local parts store. On the plus side I was able to get the old ones apart and cleaned up, we will see how they hold up for now.

[Ragsdale 85]

Well I got the brakes bleed today, no signs of leakage as of yet... Managed to get the rear floor board ready to weld in as well.249124922493. Moved on to the exhaust now, I have a few broken bolts to deal with, one in the manifold and two in the block..Then it's on to fixing the rear frame and suspension.

[gmwillys]

Looking good! Everything is coming along nicely.

[Ragsdale 85]

The fill plug in each hub up front, is that just filled with gear oil as well? Do they just lead to the front diff?

[gmwillys]

They do receive gear lube, and are separate from the axle housing. Often times they are packed with grease as opposed to lube, because of leaking seals.

[LarrBeard]

The fill plug in each hub up front, is that just filled with gear oil as well? Do they just lead to the front diff?

Google "Knuckle pudding". There is a lot written about front hub lube. For best results, it seems that neither grease or gear lube is the best answer; hence "Knuckle pudding," . The '48 is 2WD, so I don't have to cook up that concoction!

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks, I will have to Google it sounds interesting.

[gmwillys]

Corn head grease will work as well, but it doesn't lube the top spindle bearings. You can pack them much like wheel bearings, but will work for non everyday use.

[LarrBeard]

Yep, but it has to be John Deere green ....

(Just jokin')

[gmwillys]

Growing up, it was all red or grey tractors. The rich guys had the new green ones.

[LarrBeard]

Down in West Tennessee in 1954, they were all rust colored.

[Sebastian21]

Zero grade grease is the correct weight of grease. It is hard to get and very expensive. It can be ordered through parts houses.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again guys

[Ragsdale 85]

Got back in the shop over the weekend...no luck getting the broken exhaust bols from the block, tried welding nuts to the existing bolts but they didn't want any part of it. They are recessed in the block about 1/8". Oh well I will work on those another time. I did manage to fix the last foot of frame on both sides. I had some heavy duty c-channel that just happened to fit inside the existing frame. Didn't get any pictures but I will.

[LarrBeard]

It's not nice, but some times you just have to drill a hole and use an easy-out. Good luck.

[gmwillys]

Broken bolts or stud removal is a bit of an art. On a recessed stud, drill and easy-out is your best bet. A plumbers torch and good penetrating oil is the secret. Our local MAC tools dealer used to sell a penetrant that worked really well, but have not seen it on the market for some time. It was called Howie's penetrant oil, and it was soy bean based. It didn't taste too bad either. After you have the stud drilled for the easy out, (using the biggest easy out that you can, while leaving enough meat in the stud to drive the easy out into) heat the surrounding cast, then spray with penetrating oil. Repeat this process several times to aid in the penetrating oil in reaching deep into the threads. Then, tap in your easy out. If you feel that there is some resistance still, place an impact driver onto the easy out, then smack it with a hammer a few times. The easy out may be too small for the impact driver to fully engage, but the added shock tends to help.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for the advice guys!!

[51 CJ3]

Aerokroil followed by PB Blaster are my favorite penetrating oils. A mixture of 50% acetone and 50% ATF beats anything commercial though.

[Ragsdale 85]

What's everyone running for a tire size? I have 31-10.50-15 right now, love the look just the doors are not on there lower tracks so they can open without hitting the tires.

[51 CJ3]

Same but 1 inch narrower on the CJ3A.

[Ragsdale 85]

25422543just a few pics of the rear frame repair. Just a few things spots here and there to take care of and the frame should be good.

[gmwillys]

Looks more than adequate. You may consider, (if you haven't already) boxing in the C channel for some more strength. Then tie in to a rear cross member, and you will be golden.

As far as tire sizes, it all depends on your end goal. I have a collection of maybe ten Jeep wheels, and all have tires on them. Unfortunately, few hold air, and there is only one match set in the lot. The one set is a 700X16, that were most likely the original set on a '46 2A that I ended up scraping. The side walls are pretty much gone, but for whatever reason they still hold air. I had them on my current 2A, and drove it around the neighborhood. While driving, chunks of side wall were flapping around, but the tread is alright, albeit extremely hard. The 2A now has a set of 78 X 8 X 15 on the front on aftermarket wagon style wheels, then the rear has 78 X 6 X 15 on the rear. The 15" tires work better in my opinion, because they offer a little better turning radius. The turning stops have to be turned out quite a bit to prevent the 16" tires from scrubbing the frame.

[Ragsdale 85]

Yeah not sure what I will do for tires yet, but do like the look of 31-10.5's. but I really would like to keep the doors operational. Who knows though....

[51 CJ3]

I don’t have any good pictures of my tires. There is a side picture on the first page of my Frankenjeep thread. I haven’t had any clearance issues yet but I haven’t taken it on the trail either.

Forgot I had this picture on the phone:

[gmwillys]

Maybe with a combination of wheel backspacing and some creative design, you'll be able to come up with a happy medium. A 10 1/2" tire will fit within the wheel well, but any off camber maneuvering will cause the tire to run the inner fender well. A shallow backspacing, then the tire sticks out too far for your door to operate. After poking around the internet, this stuck out as a feasible idea;

https://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/attachments/f98/22018d1493787063-1975-am-general-postal-jeep-20170428_192443.jpg

If you don't like the Dutch door effect, then you could fabricate something to where the lower door section is on a hinge at the cut line. When the door is slid to the rear, a guide rod could automatically push the lower section of the door outward to clear the tires. Just a thought.
Then you could run whatever size tires you wished.

[51 CJ3]

Personally, I am not a fan of any tires that stick out past the wheel well (or fender flares) because I don’t want to throw rocks at people I meet on the road and I have lost at least 3 windshields over the years to people who do. In some states it is illegal but I don’t know that I have ever heard of it being enforced.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for all the tips/advice guys much appreciated

[pelago]

welcome, am also doing a frame up restoration about 2 yrs into it, lot of great information here, just ask and it will come

[Ragsdale 85]

Got some more time in on the Jeep today, shocks are in, trans, and transfer have new fluid. Gotta get the tank cleaned and mounted then run a new fuel line, mount the radiator, should be able to move around under it's own power after that....so much done but so much more to do....

[gmwillys]

Looks like you were able to get a lot done. We finally had a nice weekend, so I was able to rearrange the stable, and get the 2A out. You'll be out and about in no time, enjoying the warm weather. Keep us updated.

[Ragsdale 85]

Will do, it's definitely a long road, but a good one, lots of learning too.

[gmwillys]

It is a long road, but the sense of accomplishment will be all yours. Every bolt, every curse word, every drop of blood is all yours.

I like learning everything I can about these old work horses. Before your post came along, I admit I didn't know much at all about the DJ series, let alone a CJ/DJ conversion. It allows me to use my brain for a change.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks again Gmwillys, I appreciate all your help and head scratching you give. It's getting close to running and driving now. Definitely have to replace the pinion seals on the t-case as they are a steady drip. Also the steering box seems to be leaking/dripping as well. What is used in the steering box for fluid? Looks like someone resealed the box at one point but the permatex is peeling out.

[gmwillys]

No problem. We just like proving to our long suffering misses, that our heads are full of semi worthless knowledge.

Gear lube 140 Wt. Someone most likely the RTV was added from the outside, while the steering box was leaking. I have heard of the corn head grease being used, much the same as the hub oil replacement, and that could buy you some time until you could get to the reseal. I would ask myself how much play is in the steering wheel? Does the box need to be rebuilt? If the answer is tolerable and no, grease may be the way to go for the time being.

Here is a little bit of what has been posted about steering boxes, and oil vs. grease.

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/getting-140-wt-gear-oil-into-the-steering-box_topic37833.html

[TJones]

I’ve had the same problem with seals leaking and a Ole Timer told me to put a little brake fluid in with the oil and it has a reaction with the rubber seals and tightens it up and it worked in my situation.
Just a thought.

[gmwillys]

That's a good point Tjones. The Ole Timers know a lot of good tricks. At the race track one night, the power steering box started puking out the input shaft. A well seasoned guy came up and asked if we had any silver solder radiator flakes. He said add a pinch to the reservoir and start working the wheel back and forth from lock to lock. The pump growls like hell for a few minutes, but that stopped, and the seal stopped leaking.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks guys, those are some good little tricks.

[Ragsdale 85]

Well didn't get much time on the Jeep this weekend, but I did get a bunch of yard work done. Lol. However I did manage to get the radiator cleaned out, fins straightened and mounted. Looks like the fan had contacted it before folding a bunch of the fins over, the too hose was left off as well where a mouse had decided to make a nest. Hopefully I can get the fuel tank cleaned and put in next week. Any tips on cleaning the tank out?

[gmwillys]

The best way to clean out varnish and some scale would to know someone with a hot solvent tank. Some radiator shops will dip your tank for a fee, but not all. The next best think I've found to clean a gas tank is aquarium rock/gravel. It isn't as easy as in a military tank, because the openings are so much bigger on the military versions, but you can get all the gravel back out. put the gravel into the tank, then shake the tank on all sides. The top is usually where all the rust forms, because it is exposed to the environment. If there was old gas in the tank, and varnish remains, then you might need some kerosene or diesel fuel to cut through the varnish. After you get all the crud out, dump in some alcohol or prep solvent to remove any oil residue from the diesel fuel, if used. When the tank is cleaned up, (all of the big chunks of rust) then apply a liberal coat of tank sealer. The red-kote brand works well, listed bellow;

https://www.dimecitycycles.com/red-kote-fuel-tank-sealer-liner.html

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks, I've heard the gravel trick before...it's not too bad varnish wise but there a alot of rust spots/ bubbles if you will....just the openings are too small to fit a hand in to scrub.

[Ragsdale 85]

Going to be mounting my fuel pump this weekend with any luck...it was previously mounted on the front fender but I'm going to move it to the firewall instead. The question is should I run power from the ignition or jus put it on its own toggle switch? Also what rating fuse should I use? Has anyone made a fuse box for their DJ?

[51 CJ3]

An unlabeled or hidden toggle switch makes for a good anti-theft device. It won’t go far with what is in the carburetor. I would still route it through the key just so nothing has power when the key is off.

The fuse needs to slightly exceed the max expected load. The pump should be labeled for how many amps it can draw. The fuse should also be lighter than the wiring so it will blow before the wiring burns up.

[gmwillys]

Just be mindful of what kind of fuel pump you are going to use. Most electric fuel pumps are pusher pumps. These pumps work best when they are positioned close to the source, and lower than the top of the tank. The puller pumps need to be closer to the carb. Being that your fuel pump was mounted on the fender, then it would be the puller style. As far as wiring, I completely agree with 51 CJ3. Wire to the key switch, but have a hidden toggle to 1 prevent theft, 2 to be able to shut off fuel flow in the case of flooding the carb.

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks guys, hopefully it won't be long before I'm able to get it up and going!

[Ragsdale 85]

Don't worry guys I'm still working on the DJ, unfortunately only a few minutes at a time it seems. So many other things I need to get done this time of year...you know yard work and such....

[51 CJ3]

I am jealous that you get to do that much. I won’t be able to do anything to my cj for several months.

[Ragsdale 85]

Hey guys just checking in...I see what you all mean about no time. I haven't had the chance to touch the DJ in a while. I have been researching a bunch of wiring though. Just trying to decide on how I want to go about it since the wiring in there now is a mess. Anyone have a custom fuse box / wiring they've done on theirs? Want to put a fuse box in and make it neat, need to figure out how big of a box I will need.

[gmwillys]

Check with Painless wiring. They offer fuse panels and harnesses for hot rods and customs. If you would like to go original style, then Kaiser should have something to fit your needs.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/electrical/wiring-harnesses/complete-wiring-harness-made-in-the-usa-fits-66-71-cj-5-with-v6-225-engine

http://www.painlessperformance.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvfnFv9q62wIVD77ACh2aAwurEAAYASA AEgJzrPD_BwE

[Ragsdale 85]

2758If only I had unlimited time and money.....

[Ragsdale 85]

Managed to get a couple hours in in the DJ this morning! Got the fuel tank installed, fuel line ran, and the fuel pump hooked up. I have it on accessory power with an in line toggle switch. Turn the key on, the pump runs, and pours out the carb? Stuck float? I haven't touched the carb yet. It is a Carter something or rather....

[LarrBeard]

A. Probably Carter YF.

B. Most Carters for F/L-134 only need about 1.5 PSI at fuel inlet to keep things happy. Electric pumps tend to run higher - depends on just which pump, but 8 PSI to 12 PSI would not be unusual, especially with low volume delivery.

C. I saw an F-134 this weekend (1950 4WD Model 473 pickup) with an electric fuel pump and an in-line pressure regulator set to about 1.5 PSI. The float and needle valve handle this very well.

D. Even with just a rebuilt mechanical pump, I needed to add a regulator to the F-134 in the '48. About 1.5 PSI perks along very nicely.

E. And, on top of all of that, it would not hurt to pull the top off the carburetor to see if things are stuck or if you have crud in the needle valve seat. It's only one fuel line fitting and about a half-dozen screws. Try to save the gasket.

F. It's a really simple carburetor to rebuild (just one dammit spring and clip on the accelerator pump shaft).

Don't worry about the accelerator pump just now, you don't need it working just right to fire the beast up. The idle mixture screw is the only external adjustment.

G. A carb kit, a couple of cans of carb or brake cleaner and an old toothbrush will do as good a job as the expensive shop. Google "Overhaul Carter YF Carburetor" and you will be an expert pretty quickly. Since it ran at one time in another life, don't worry too much about metering rods, high-altitude jet orifice sizes and such. Just clean up what you have. Use your wife's hair dryer to heat the body to get the old accelerator pump diaphragm out of the well, or let it sit full of xylene or lacquer thinner. It gets glued in there with 15+ years of varnish and shellac on it.

Good luck - let us know what happens....

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for the tip. I pulled the carb off and took the top half off, surprisingly it wasn't too bad in there pretty clean. The float seems to be in working order. I will have to try an in line regulator.

[LarrBeard]

The spec page sez all F-134 use Carter YF-651S/SA carburetors.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/tech-guide/carburetors-utility-vehicles

If you can rig it safely, just a gravity feed "plasma bottle" (like an IV bottle on a pole) feed will work to let you get things running. A quart or so at a time is all you will need.

[IRQVET]

People recommend painless wiring harnesses. I went with the 12 circuit EZ wiring kit for half the price. Keep in mind which ever way you choose, they don't come with the factory wiring connections, so I'd explore other options unless your good with wiring.

My .02 cents

[Ragsdale 85]

Not real great with wiring, just the basics really. I have been looking at a Hot rod wiring page and they have broken it down nicely. Going to wire it all from scratch basically

[gmwillys]

I would recommend that you at least purchase a new fuse panel. Too many gremlins lurk in the old panel, and you will keep some sanity when starting with new piece.

http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/p.php?s=fuse+panel&sb=+

[LarrBeard]

Wiring isn't all that difficult and you will get better at it as you go along.

Some hints:

A. Use good quality wire. Wire is costly - it seems - but don't try to save money by going down a size or buying the cheapest Chinese wire you can find. You're only going to do this once.

B. Buy a good quality crimping tool. You are going to make a lot of crimps and every one needs to be right and tight.

C. Buy a good quality wire stripper. The little stripping notches on a lot of tools are NOT what you want to be using. Again, you are going to be making a lot of stripped ends. You don't want a bunch of nicked wires at the crimp lugs. Buy a good set of wire cutters too, and then don't use them to cut hardened stuff.

D. Practice on several crimp lugs and scrap wire ends to get the feel of stripping just enough insulation off the wire to have a little bit of wire poking through the end of the lug. Make sure the shoulder of the wire insulation is bottomed against the lug and the plastic sleeve covers the insulation. No bare wire sticking out of the wire end of the lug.

E. Make sure your lugs are the correct size for the wire you are using. Lugs that are too big won't crimp securely and too small a lug will end up with having to sacrifice wire strands to get the lug on the wire.

F. Oh yeah, at break out points, leave enough wire to get where you need to go. I hate to have to add in-line crimp splices to get that extra inch of wire.

You might want to try a trick we used when we had to build a cable assembly to go into aircraft retrofits. Take a piece of rope and lay it into the chassis where you want to run your cable. You can use it to try different routing to get around frames and such. At breakout points, use a cable tie to show that, for example, three # 14 wires break out of the cable here to go to the heater switch.

Then, once you have all of your wire breakouts marked, take the rope and lay it out on a bench or a piece of plywood. Use a marker to draw the rope and lay wires in along the markings. Use lots of cable ties and try to keep wires parallel - twists make wire bundles bigger.

And, don't hesitate to take it back apart if you don't like the way it looks. You've got a lot of time invested in making things work well, so take time on this.

Good luck!

[Ragsdale 85]

Thanks for the help/tips guys. I did purchase a 12 fuse, fuse panel to get me started, now I'm just pulling old wires out and figuring out how and where to route them. So far good.

[gmwillys]

To help matters, label the old wires, and note their routing. As was said before, lay out the new and old harness on a piece of plywood wood, then plan your execution. You'll do fine. Invest in good connectors, and quality crimpers. I use 3M heat shrink connectors. You past more for them, but when l worked on salt trucks, they worked well sealing out the environment. Do not use a lighter or torch to shrink the tubing. A heat gun, or a high heat hair dryer works the best.... The wife's dryer should do the trick.

[Ragsdale 85]

So far so good guys, seem to have most everything I need. I have headlights, marker lights, blinkers, wipers, fuel pump, all guages and lights. Just need to decide what to get for rear lights, blower motor, horn.

[Ragsdale 85]

Hey guys, long time since I've posted anything. Haven't done much of anything to the ole DJ lately. I did however get it started up today!!!! It runs, drives, stops!!!! Sounds good too. It has given me a little more motivation to continue with the project. Now just for the time to do it.

[gmwillys]

Good deal. Thank you for the update. I know what you mean, I walk by the wagon daily, but haven't picked up a tool on it since the week of the fourth. Soon I will have to make some time. Shut off the phone, close the garage door, and go after it.

[Ragsdale 85]

That's for sure, seems like you just have to make the time. If I could only count the number of times I walked by it and said I needed to work on it.