CJ-3A First Willys

[bmorgil]

Hello all! I am starting my first Willys Jeep. I attended the 2018 TOLEDO JEEP FEST. https://www.toledojeepfest.com/ Wow what an event! This city really shows up for the JEEP! So many people, and thousands of Jeeps. I was hooked. Went out and bought one. It is a 1950 CJ-3A that was used as a farm tractor in Michigan. This saved the frame from the rust generated in the rust belt. It did not save the body. The body was barely there so, I started the project by just getting all of the rust and plastic repair out of the way and ordered a Tub Kit. Surprisingly, a lot of original stuff is still here. Most of my work looks like it will be repairing the "hacking" that occurred. I am officially the second owner of this Willys. Some one before me was very fond of their welder. The repairs to the frame will include rebuilding the left front frame horn where cutting took place. The frame spring mounts were removed and, a piece of channel iron was welded in place to attempt a prehistoric lift. Really bad work there. Grinding and getting those off and the new mounts back on will be tough. The body was welded on in the back and, I had to grind out the chopped up rear cross member/bumper that was welded to the body. In the engine bay I think I have a truck motor. It is the right casting numbers (641087-L-W5A on the Block / 640161 on the Head). The motor however is stamped 4T10443 A. I have read that it still could be the original motor as some engines were used from various locations in the Willys plant when inventory went low. The welding/chopping in the motor house continued. Angle iron welded in, battery box chopped up. Fenders welded on the oil filter is severely hacked up and relocated. The most unbelievable thing... the radiator was welded in! Much more to fix but, I am sure you all know that is coming!

I am looking forward to everyone's help and advise. I have a few old classic vehicles. This is my second frame off. Many years ago, I restored a 1959 Chevy Apache pickup frame off. It was a lot of work. This will be harder on an old body (mine)!

[LarrBeard]

"The motor however is stamped 4T10443 A"

Engine numbers were originally stamped on a boss at the front of the engine, just behind the water pump. But ... when the head warped and the block got planed off to level things out at the first or second or whenever rebuild, the number on the boss disappears.

If you have a number on the boss, that might well indicate that the block has never been planed off to level it up. Could be an original engine....

Just remember the first rule of Jeeps:

!. What you see is what you have. Trust nothing written if it doesn't match what you have.

(Most Jeeps are Jeep Soup; a little of this, a little of that and a dash ofsomething else.)

Keep us informed of what you're finding!

[bmorgil]

Thanks LarrBeard! I did not know the first rule of Jeeps. Well I don't think it was decked. The stamped in numbers by the water pump are still quite visible. It was definitely bored. as far as I want to go. It is .060 over. It looks like a broken stud om the intake manifold as well as a broken carb flange, lead to some lean conditions. The previous owner welded in an unknown radiator and, a futile attempt at an electric fan. I am thinking it was heating up pretty good. Nothing like a .060 motor running with vacuum leaks to melt a piston or two. This one ate up two pistons. It looks like it happened right away as the pistons are still fairly clean. There is no ridge and still a cross hatch an the walls. I am tempted to go to the .080 over pistons after a sonic check of the wall thickness. I am concerned because I am reading on the forums that it will run hot. I am hoping to get some experience from others who have gone .080 over (if anyone has). The crank is gorgeous at .010 on the rods and .020 on the crank. I am leaning heavily towards sleeving it back to standard bore. I am sure hoping for some thoughts on this. "Back in the Day" I punched a lot of 283 Chevy's .120 over to make some high revving small blocks. They held up but, we were Drag Racing. I don't think anybody knew how hot they really got! I did have a 454 Chevy bored .120 to a 496. It ran great on the street. It seems though I am reading these little L134 Go Devils run warm. Seems like no one can get them to run under 180 or, 210 under load. Mighty hot for my liking on an old motor. I sure would appreciate some real life experience before I punch it out!

Definitely will keep posting. I have it totally stripped down now. Sand blasting and machine shop are next. I have to repair the battery box, but I can't find one that looks like mine. The one from KW is two short ( not as tall). It might be OK. I don't know.

I sure am glad for this forum and all it's members!

[bmorgil]

Frame and suspension restored. Steering in and alignment set. Brakes restored. Motor rebuilt. I have to apologize for the 12 volt GM 10SI. The prior owner stripped gutted and thoroughly FUBARED everything about the original 6 volt system. It was just to much cost to go back.

[bmorgil]

More pics. Trans is ready to reassemble as soon as the parts arrive.

[gmwillys]

Great looking 3A project!
.60 over is a general rule of thumb, and I have heard that .80 over is nothing but headaches as per from the veteran machinist. Now, if you were to Sonic test the cylinders, and there's an acceptable amount of wall thickness. It would be worth a try. It would be fun to punch one out, then run alcohol.... The possibilities are pretty much endless. I wish I would have kept a couple of blocks that were either stuck or cracked, just for instances like this.

[bmorgil]

I did go .080 over gmwillys. It was fully sonic checked. I still have .125 left in the thinnest spot at .080 over. I have my fingers crossed but, I have one of the best machinists in the area. He was recommended to me by a guy who I trusted with some very high end motors, who is now retired. He said not to worry. I will however worry. I believe I have found a bolt in aluminum radiator with the hose locations in the correct spots. The shroud will go on with some simple brackets. I am counting on that combination to keep her cool. I will let all know if the experiment is a success!

The motor is decked, head milled, crank .020 /.030 under, bore +.080, new valves / seats / springs, balanced rotating assembly, resized connecting rods and reconditioned lifters.

[bmorgil]

To me this is the toughest, scariest part. The body. Time to fit the KW body kit.

[gmwillys]

The body won't be too bad. Let us know how everything fits.

[LarrBeard]

In one of your first posts you made a comment:

"It seems though I am reading these little L134 Go Devils run warm. Seems like no one can get them to run under 180 or, 210 under load."

I guess a lot depends on what "under load" means.

Many of the L/F-134's that run hot are engines that have had a lot of use and little care over the years. They tend to have sludged up crusty, rusty blocks and plugged and nasty radiators. If "under load" means crawilng up a cliff in 4WD Low as hard as you can go, yep - they'll heat up.

But - if under load means all of the seats full of grandkids at 45 MPH and 2600 RPM down the road, or crawling down the street in a parade, a clean block with a clean radiator will run at the thermostat setting all day long. The '48 loves parades. The Corvettes are sitting along the side with the hoods open and we're just puttering along at a slow walk in Low (5.38 rear end helps) at 160 degrees.

Don't skip the fan shroud when you put it back together and ... to just coin a phrase ... everything will be cool!

P. S. I am in the Arena Show over at Toledo in August.

[bmorgil]

P. S. I am in the Arena Show over at Toledo in August.

I think we are good then Larry! She is looking like a parade Jeep for shure! Loaded full of fun. The shroud is definitely going on. I contemplated painting the radiator black so it wouldn't stand out. It is such a nice fit that at first quick glance, it might pass as "supposed to be there". We will endeavor to "Stay CooL"!

I am more pumped up about your truck in the main event, than I am about getting the power-train back in mine! Speaking of VERY COOL!!! Wow indoors for one of the biggest Jeep shows around. You will have the finest truck there. I cannot wait to see it! Reserve lunch on me. If you need anything here in Toledo let me know. I am hoping I can figure the body out in time for the parade. In any event my son has his Scrambler in the parade. I will be there!

[LarrBeard]

I'm still waiting on details, but I suspect if the truck is staged in the arena on Friday, it will just have to sit and watch the parade...

I'ts interesting how things work themselves out.

I had just planned to drive up to Toledo - it's a two hour or so drive up US 24. But, a friend of mine, who is a friend of the truck, has a 24-foot enclosed trailer. He insisted I couldn't drive up there - I would get bugs on the truck, it might rain, bird doooh - ... He offered the trailer to me, but I told him that I don't have anything to pull it - and I don't want to try to learn how to handle a 24-foot trailer as my first experience. Thanks, buy really - No Thanks.

So, he said that's simple - I'll just haul the truck up there for you....

As of now - take the truck up Friday, the arena opens about 11:00 or so (preliminary plans). Set up is until late afternoon. We'll stay around and look, then come home. The show closes Sunday afternoon, so I'll come back up Sunday morning - look at all the goodies and then drive the truck back home in the cool of the evening.

Or - everything may change depending on what everyone else wants to do .....

[gmwillys]

Great news LarrBeard! You two will have to post lots of pictures after the show.

[TJones]

Damn I may have to hurry and get mine finished Toledo’s only a couple hours from me !!!

[gmwillys]

Sounds like a good time!

[bmorgil]

Let's start a "Go Fund Me" to fly in gmwillys, and his Willys.

[bmorgil]

Pretty much finished up everything I could on the chassis. I filled up the fluids and went to bed. I woke up ready to begin trial fitting the body kit. As I tidied up , I spotted a small pool of oil on the top of the skid plate under the trans / bell housing interface. Panic. I assumed it was coming out of the front of the counter-shaft. The usual T90 spot. I payed close attention to sealing everything on the rebuild. I pulled the trans / transfer case. Two giant steps backward. The counter-shaft was dry. The front of the trans was clean and dry. I got in real close and put on some big boy glasses. A Crack!

Some analysis. The Jeep only has 48,000 miles on it. It is a dealer converted farm Jeep. The only remnants are the air bags and the Driveshaft rear shield. There is a hole in the rear support where the hydraulics were. It was beat like a well used _____. When I got to the transmission, one bolt was gone, the hole striped. Two other bolt holes were striped in the bell. That left the lower passenger side bolt as the only thing holding the trans in. That is where the crack formed. Also the cross member had been hit so hard, it took a 25 ton press to straighten it. Well it could have been worse. Trans is torn down and waiting for parts... again.

[LarrBeard]

Does that mean a new transmission case?

[gmwillys]

I hate that. No fun at all.

[bmorgil]

Does that mean a new transmission case?

I found a case on eBay that has a 1950 casting date. The shipping is outrageous. Almost the cost of a new one when all is said and done. Oh well. I am glad I caught it when I did. It would have been a bad day at the Parade!

[bmorgil]

OK while I wait for parts, I am turning my attention to the paint. I have no idea how I want to approach this. I was thinking I could get the paint in spray cans and quarts. I could paint all the surfaces that you can't get to when assembled. Then I could drive it to the body shop. Or, I could load the body fenders etc on the trailer and take the "Kit" to the body shop then put it on the chassis. In any event I am trial fitting the grill and fenders now.

I cannot come up with the paint color. I definitely need help. I want to paint it Emerald Green. KW and others show it as Emerald Green DQE-40530-DAL. None of the paint shops in town can cross that number. My paint supplier is telling me they can't help without a paint chip. I have no original paint anywhere that can be matched. I would hate to just pick a color. I was hoping to get an original paint color.

Any ideas?

[LarrBeard]

I cannot come up with the paint color. I definitely need help. Any ideas?

I hate paint problems. I'm fighting with the painter, the primer vendor and the paint vendor about paint peeling off the driver door post on the '48. everyone is standing in a circle and pointing to the guy on his left.....

Oh well. I poked about and found the following cross references for Jeep Emerald Green:

Ditzler/PPG 40530

DuPont 93-55223

Sherwin Williams 33141/43695

If these are standard catalog paint numbers, they should be able to get close to the original color from their magic mixing dispensers. And, remember - trying to mix and match paint on an old Jeep is like throwing a hand grenade - close counts.

[bmorgil]

I did find those numbers except for that Ditzler/PPG number. The shop said the SW number turned out to be silver. The Dupont number doesn't come up. I am running that Ditzler number by them now. I had a different Ditzler number.

What do you think about the process? Paint it all off and bolt it on? Or paint the hard to reach places with a spray can and bolt it together. Then do a good job masking the chassis from over spray.

[LarrBeard]

What do you think about the process? Paint it all off and bolt it on? Or paint the hard to reach places with a spray can and bolt it together. Then do a good job masking the chassis from over spray.

If I painted it all and tried to put it together, I'd skin things up and have to do it again.

This is one time when I really don't have an opinion .....

[gmwillys]

In my opinion, take all the parts and have them painted all at once. Invest in moving blankets from horrible freight, and lay them down on anything that the fenders and grill can be bumped against. Make guide pins out of long bolts with the heads cut off, (put in the top fender mount holes on the cab). This will help you to guide the fenders into place and hold them into position while you start the rest of the hardware. The hood is the toughest part, because it's awkward to handle without bumping something.
Look at the inside of the passenger side tool box lid for a paint chip. Often you will find the original color on the fenders, where they meet the tub. The welting can preserve the paint. If your Jeep has been painted several times, you can purchase some nylon brushes from horrible freight for $3.99, to put in your drill. You can actually remove one layer at a time to. I did this on my 2A, and found 6 layers of paint to expose the original color was Normandy blue.

[bmorgil]

I like the approach gmwillys. I am going to do it that way. I have access to a large flat bed trailer that can hold two cars. It has plank decking. I could make up some 2x4 holding fixtures that I could pad. I like the fact that this will be close to the way it was originally assembled. There won't be any tell tale over spray on the chassis etc.

I am tempted to try this myself. My son has all the equipment and tools to do body / paint. We just don't have a paint booth. I just don't get the results the pro's get. My son is pretty good, and pretty busy! Persons that are able to do good body work have a bit of "artist" in them. They see things I cannot.

[gmwillys]

One of the best paint jobs I had ever seen was on a neighbor's '70 442 W-30. He did a complete color change from red with black stripes to black with white painted stripes. He did it in his two stall garage, in the winter. The gaps were perfect, and the black you could see for miles while looking into it. The problem was he was a body man, and not a mechanical guy. He put the hood and fenders on before the engine went back in.... He refused to take them back off. Trying to stuff a 455 BBO and 4 speed through the opening left by the hood isn't fun, but it was his car, and his decision. The only damage was a very light scratch on top of one of the fenders, and a slight gouge in the hood insulation. It would have been a whole lot simpler if he would have waited.

[bmorgil]

OK all back together. No leaks yet! I am going to put the radiator in and, fire it. I was thinking I could unbolt the radiator and let it rest on the hoses and the shroud. I could then pull the grill and finish it.

I know you both have written about the best way to remove and install the body as it relates to the steering column. It seems it would be a pain to drop the exhaust and the drag link, just to lower the steering box. I have strong souls available to assist in lifting things. I am thinking lift the painted body over the taped up column and leave the box in. What do you all think? I will have an opportunity to practice when I test fit the tub. The shift cover on my trans is a hybrid Military/civilian I think. It has the screw on retention cap instead of the wound in spring to hold the shift lever in. It does not have the longer shift rail castings for the pipe plugs the military used to plug the shift rod holes in the front. That screw on cover makes it easy to get the shift lever out of the way.

I took all the info I had to the paint shop. He did a lot of searching and then, he called his "Guy" at PPG. Bingo! Emerald Green!

[gmwillys]

You sure can drop the body over the installed steering column will work. If you have two willing people to lift the body, no problems.

Looks like I'm going to have to get one of those K.W. T shirts.

[LarrBeard]

"I took all the info I had to the paint shop. He did a lot of searching and then, he called his "Guy" at PPG. Bingo! Emerald Green!"

Sure and Begorrah, isn't Emerald Green the luck o' the Irish. With all of those numbers we were finding, that wasn't just a number someone had made up. It just took someone who knew the right "Guy" to call.

Lots of muscle helps with just about any project. I have strong teen-age boys around who will lift about anything if I let them catch the catfish out of the pond. But, the rule this summer is that if you catch one of those big ugly critters, you have to take it home. The biggest ones are getting to be 27 - 29-inches long and they've cleaned out most of the bass and bluegill.

[bmorgil]

Ohhh private pond catfish! You gotta eat them monsters!

OK that sets the plan. I will paint the body and parts off, and lift the finished tub over the column.

The Mike's at KW are the best! Everyone there is super. I have had a great deal of success with the project because of their company. I gave Mike Viola a hard time about the free tee shirt offer. He responded with some nice SWAG!

[LarrBeard]

OK that sets the plan. I will paint the body and parts off, and lift the finished tub over the column.

The Mike's at KW are the best! Everyone there is super.

I asked Mike Meditz if KWAS was coming to Toledo. He said they were sponsoring, but not attending. Being the splendid gentleman I am, I told him to just send me a check and I'd buy refreshments for all the guys.

I'm still waiting ...

[bmorgil]

You need to show up with a bunch of cool stuff from KW! You will be inside with a star of the show for sure! That truck would look good setting in the Seagate Center with a bunch of KW stuff in the back!

I thought for sure KW would send someone. I think this is as big of a Jeep event as it gets.

[bmorgil]

OK so I tidied up, filled the radiator and, water leaking in a steady stream from the water pump shaft. The pump is the original. I was lucky to find some instructions that came with a nice rebuild kit. It had the correct disassembly procedure and, it went smoothly. I milled the seal boss flat and it seemed to all look good. I did read somewhere that after rebuilding the pump it needed "run in" to fully seal. I read it would drip for a bit.

So I hooked up a fuel line, and squirted some fuel in the mixer. It fired immediately! Ran out of fuel quickly. Another squirt and it came right back and stayed with it. It was running very good and POURING coolant all over under the pump. I bet I lost 2 quarts in a minute.

Shut er' down, drained the coolant, pulled the pump. It looks great, of course. Waiting for parts again! New pump this time. I was really wanting to keep the original. I am not sure why it is leaking so severely. Well why I wait for the pump, I am rounding up the boy's to lift the body tub on for the first fit.

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE I was really wanting to keep the original. I am not sure why it is leaking so severely. Well why I wait for the pump, I am rounding up the boy's to lift the body tub on for the first fit.[/QUOTE]

A. I resisted the urge to rebuild the "original" pump on the F-134 when we did the deed. Your story makes me think I really did the right thing. (The new pump hasn't dripped a drop....).

B. In a similar vein, I decided to use my original head/parking light switch and circuit breaker. I wanted to keep as much original as I could (and I was a little cheap...). Now, two+ years afterwards, that wasn't the best choice. I was dabbling around under the dash a while back and just for gits and shiggles I measured electrical system voltage - running and charge rate settled out - about 7.3 volts - good enough.

I turned on the headlights and I only get 6.8 or 6.9 volts out of the switch. As it turns out, even though the meter says "closed", the plating on the contacts has probably oxidized or disappeared and under the 10-amp or so headlight load, I get more voltage drop that I should. I thought my headlights were a bit dimmer than I remembered, but then I have a lot older eyes than I did 39 years ago when I put it away.

So - the takeaway from this is don't be as cheap or stubborn as I was - buy a new switch. I don't drive much at night, but when I do, my work around is a short clip lead around the switch contacts to bypass the deteriorated contacts. It does make a difference in brightness. I have a friend at Grote, the LED light people, and I've told him if they would make a replacement LED headlight for us 6-volt people they would be even richer than they are.

C. As for rounding up the boys - depending on age - either Pizza or Beer make the recruiting easier.

[bmorgil]

CRAP! I forgot about the negotiating "Pizza and Beer"! Fixing that right now.

I totally agree with your don't cheap out comment. I have already had to go back and redo a bad choice.

[gmwillys]

I'll be in line to buy the 6 volt LED lights when they become available.

My crotchety self, there isn't enough pizza or beer to be had. That's why I have to figure things out on how to do things by myself. It's a good mental exercise in Barnyard Engineering if nothing else.

[bmorgil]

You are resourceful for sure!

This is interesting on the 6 volt LED H4 headlights. http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?t=37564

[gmwillys]

Necessity leads to innovation.

I would like to get the headlights like TJones has on his project, with the integrated turn signals, but in 6 volt.

[bmorgil]

I am having a tough time figuring out which top bow brackets came from the factory on my CJ3A. My body kit has none. I didn't want to weld anything on that didn't come stock.

I am fond of the M38 style. It has a bracket outside the body tub over the tire. I don't think that came on CJ's however. I want to have shade from the sun, but I am not interested in a full top with doors. If I had a roll bar I would just use a bikini top. I am not sure what to do for a sun top. A faux roll bar is out. Any ideas?

The boy's picked up the tub like it was paper. Lifted it over the steer column and set it right down. Oh to be young again! The trial fit begins. It looks to me like it is pretty darn close. I am not seeing some of the "doesn't fit" horror stories yet. The radiator and shroud worked out well. I had to space the radiator out 1/2 inch and, some custom mounts for the shroud. I had to cut the shroud on the bottom and around the alternator. The 1/2 " spacer caused the shroud to get too close. All good though. Minor cutting and, you can't see it!

[LarrBeard]

Progress is starting to show ...

[bmorgil]

OK so now In addition to not knowing what to do for a top, I cannot figure these seats out.

I have the original seats. Of course the repro tub is not drilled for them. No big deal but it just doesn't seem right. What holds the rear outsides of the seats? The front mounts are obvious (except for exact location). The rear seat mounts however have me a bit. To the inside it is good. A metal strap bolted to the floor. But on the outsides? Does the seat just set down on the rear inner fender? It seams it would rattle like crazy. I must be missing something on the front seat, outside rear mounts.

[gmwillys]

The passenger side rests on what should be two brackets with rubber bumpers installed. There wasn't a latch or hardware that kept the seat in place, until there was a field fix on the M38A1. This consisted of a barrel door latch that was tacked on the rear portion of the tool box. This would hold the rear of the seat down. This wasn't done by the factory, but we have seen several of examples of the motor pool having been completed.

The driver's side was bolted down via a caged nut welded to the underside of the rear floor, next to the riser.

[bmorgil]

What about the body side of the seats on the rear corners. I have welded nuts under the tub for the inside straps. you can see the straps in the photo. On the CJ3A it appears both inside rear corners bolt down. I have seen the latch mod. It would sure speed up access to the tool box. I have not seen the bumper you speak of. I wonder if someone has a photo.The seats have a strap that runs to the floor on the driveshaft side. On the fender sides however there is nothing. It seams the seat frame just sets down tight against the tub inner fender.

[bmorgil]

Well in addition to not fully understanding how the seats work, there are some fitment issues. This is the delux tub kit from KW. All in all the kit fits pretty good. I am basing this on the horror stories I read about the earlier body's. These all come from MD Juan in the Philippines. They have made a lot of corrections.

The firewall hit the throttle shaft bracket and arm at the rear of the motor where they attach. This kept the tub from moving far enough forward. I had to heat and bang a small indentation. I needed about 3/4" more room.

The holes in the floor for the clutch and brake are about 1/2" to close together.

It is a CJ3A tub. The dash is set up for a CJ2A starter/coil switch.

The big problem that I need advice on:


The windshield is not centered. The arm on the passenger side is much closer than the arm arm the left. I do not know how to go about correcting this. I have read persons use heat and bend the arms to correctness. I shudder at the thought.

[bmorgil]

More windshield

[LarrBeard]

It looks like the passenger side windshield sits down on the cowl as well. I've never had to deal with this, so take my advice with a handful of salt ...

Apply BFH and BFT (BF torch) heat, pound gently and adjust to fit.

GMWillys and I are used to the drawing note:

"Hammer to close gap. Weld, grind flush and paint to match. Stamp "Interchangeable Part". Pack, ship and send invoice".

Yeah, it's annoying to have to do rework on things you've spent good money on, but it's the best of the few choices you have. Let us know how you solve this.

[bmorgil]

Hahaha! I love the engineering note! We had a similar saying that used to float around the manufacturing floor. "Beat it to fit, paint it to finish".

It is setting on the cowl on the passenger side. I think it is because it is shoved so far to the drivers side. It looks like It will be fairly close once it is centered. On the inside the hold down clamps are off an equal amount. They also look like they will line up when (if) the frame is centered. I am going to try a cold bend (and beer) first. If that gets to wild, the blue wrench will follow. I am not sure how to hold the dang thing. This may have happened in shipping. When the crate arrived at my house from KW, the fenders etc. were tied up so to speak inside the tub. Something had fallen on the paper thin crate cover and busted it all up. There is a big dent in the cowl. There is a lot of dents and scratches inside from the stuff banging around. I have a few dents etc. to fix on the outside before paint. When I pull the hinge bolt out of the drivers side, the frame pops rearward towards the back. The passenger side arm seems to be bent and forcing the frame rearward.

[gmwillys]

We use hammer to fit, paint to match. O.D. green CARC paint is easy to blend.

The outboard seat rests up against the inner fender on the passenger side. The rubber bumper goes on the inner leg of the passenger seat. The driver's side has the three points that mounts the seat.

The windshield is out of whack. I'll try to get home before dark to get some photos of how they should sit. If you are handy with a torch, that would be the fastest. If you have any doubt, use a come along or a ratchet straps to bring the arms together. With one side closer then the other, you may need to add some heat to draw that side in enough without pulling the other. The trick will be to retain the height of the hinges in relation to the top of the windshield. The mount arm tips should be straight, and not tipped in. It looks like the mounts may be backwards. Again, I'll get some photos.

[TJones]

bmorgil;
You are having the same problem with your windsheild as I did, Not centered worth a hoot....
I tried heating and bending but the more I fooled with it the worse it got. The only advantage I had over yours is I cut the whole dash out and welded in a solid piece of steel to eliminate all the gauge holes,emergency brake hole and everything else that was standard bc I wanted to put my gauge holes in different locations and add switches for the fog lights,electric fan and other switches down the road.
By doing that I could mount the windsheild clamps wherever I wanted and you are limited to yours bc it is already set. I ended up cutting the arms off the windsheild and centering it on the cowl and welding the arms back on. The problem if you move yours to center it your windsheild clamps may not line up then you have a bigger problem.
Grant it mine is far from perfect but it is better than when I started, it took me a 6-8 pack of beer and a half a pack of Winstons to finally say the heck with it it looks good enough.
A buddy of mine that took 5 years to build his Model A street rod told me "Think everything through before you start cutting and welding" thats why my tub is not PC yet...
I still have to mount the motor and tranny to make sure my overdrive shifter will come up through the floorbard without cutting,welding,re-cutting and welding and patching.
Good Luck, just remember Think it through before you start heating,beating,and bending it may cause you some A&* ache you really dont need......You have done WELL so far it looks Great!!!


45474548454945504551

[bmorgil]

Wow in the first shot with the old firewall, the frame fits just like mine. Tight on the pass side and wide on the driver. Well at least it appears to be a "standard deviation". Maybe someone will have successfully pulled off a re-center without cutting out the dash and firewall! The clamps are off the same as the frame. It looks like if the frame would line up so would the clamps.

gmwillys has me straight on the seats. I now have that figured out. I am hoping for some pics from him on the windshield. He was thinking the mounts might be backwards. This could be a tough one.

Man that CJ of yours is coming along! I can't wait to see the finished project. You are definitely good with the metal work TJ!

[TJones]

Thank You Sir....
If you hold the mounts up to where they bolt on they should be square with the body, I don't think the windshield arms will fit in the mounts if they are on backwards maybe I am wrong and that's highly possible. Like my Bride say's " can you even say wrong" and I say yes wwwwwwrrrrrooonnnnngggg Not Right:):)
I have cut out, replaced,welded,re-cut so many times now it's getting frustrating but I want it to look half way like somebody knew what they were doing . I think I've used up 2 maybe 3 spools of .23 and .30 wire in my little lincoln wire feed 135 but I am starting to get the hang of it.
I found out early the tin they used is like paper and you need to go slow.
Did you get your body from Jay at Willys Overland by you? That's where I got mine and he does a good job with the fitment rehab.
I am thinking the boys in the Philippines really must of got paid by the spot welds instead of by the hour:):)
I have also found out that the powder coating covers up a Multitude of Sin bc it goes on so thick and when they bake it it has a tendency to smooth things out.

[gmwillys]

I hadn't forgotten about the pictures. Been on the run since 02:30, and finally had a chance to get back to my desk. I won't make it home before dark, so here are some archive photos of my old heep. None are direct subject matter.

[gmwillys]

A few more photos for effect. The red Heep was an early MD Juan bodied M38/3A clone. The windshield fit alright, but nothing else was right.

[bmorgil]

Oh ya some good looks there gmwillys. I figured out a few things from them. The mounts are on correctly. I can see how it fits. I think the arms right where they bolt to the mounts are the culprit. It looks like when they flattened the ends for the pivot bolt, they were not paying attention to the angle they ended up at. I think a slight adjustment right there might work. It does not look like it will be easy to bend. I will need to maintain flat.

I noticed in the photos there appears to be a washer under the pivot bolt. I think one would be beneficial. Did washers come from the factory? My brand new stainless pivot bolts dug right in to the frame.

[bmorgil]

If you hold the mounts up to where they bolt on they should be square with the body, I don't think the windshield arms will fit in the mounts if they are on backward.....

Did you get your body from Jay at Willys Overland by you? That's where I got mine and he does a good job with the fitment rehab.....

I have also found out that the powder coating covers up a Multitude of Sin bc it goes on so thick and when they bake it it has a tendency to smooth things out.

No it wont go together. It would but things would be bent. There is a significant angle built in to the mount to match the cowl side.

The "kit"s a KW. It is not to bad. I had to drill some mount holes, bang some clearance in the firewall etc. I thought about Willys Overland but, I had to save the cash and fit it myself.

I love powder coat!

[TJones]

I’m excited to see how it turns out!!!
It will be the only one in these parts that has been powder coated.
I’ve had to send parts back several times bc they look milky bc the clear didn’t bake long enough but we’ll get it.

[gmwillys]

I see that the mounts were not backwards, but a much steeper angle then the original. I have caught myself putting them on bass ackward because of the slight angle. The end of the arms are more straight. With everything square to the body, the windshield arms pivot stay parallel to the body. It would appear that with the angles that the windshield and the mounts, I would think the windshield would bind when raising or lowering.

[bmorgil]

On the passenger side the arm bit into the head of the pivot. It is because the arm /hole is not 90 deg to the mount/pivot bolt. On the back of the pivot bolt it bit into the arm and drug all the way. when the frame pivots.

[bmorgil]

OK. I chickened out and loaded the tub and windshield on the back of my pickup. I bolted two 7' 2x4's under the tub and we "coffin" carried it to the truck. We lifted it up and set it down right on top of the bed sides. I should have taken a pic of that. To the body shop it went. I am super lucky. I have a California show car builder living right down the street.

The windshield driver side mount right at the pivot needed to be bent in about 10 degrees. The passenger side was another story. After trying different methods, the boy's ended up cutting a piece out of the arm and bending it out and down, and then welding it back up. It fit's pretty darn good now!

When the tub returns it is reassembly time! A pic is attached of the fenders and grill on. I like the color! Nice color for a Jeep. Not olive drab but, a good "civi" choice.

gmwillys, the tip on the guide pins for the fenders was perfect. Man that went smooth. I didn't even come close to scratching anything.

A recap on the repro tub:

There were two major issues that had to be corrected. The fire wall is not correct directly behind the throttle linkage. I tried heating it red and forming with a body hammer. It was to far off for that. It actually makes contact before the tub can be pushed all the way forward. The body shop cut out the area and remade it. I will take some pics. I need at least a half inch more room.

The windshield fit was terrible. No way that would have even went together with out damage every time you moved it. It took the body shop some work to correct it.

The dashboard was not drilled for the high beam indicator or the correct starter switch. The dash was set up for a CJ2A starter switch on the passenger side. A big 1" hole and 3 small holes. The holes had to be welded and filled. I could have used a 2A switch but, the point here is its a 3A! This is a common complaint on the web. I can't quite figure that one out. It is a dead giveaway that it is the wrong dash for a 3A or, it is a repro tub.

I cannot figure out why they don't put the 4 "Top" mounts on the tub. I have chosen not to put them on. I do wish they had come welded on. I am going to use a modified M38 summer top. By using the M38 style, I don't have to weld in any mounts.

The tailgate hinges are ROUGH! I had to grind the openings to get the tailgate in. They were out of square.

All in all not to bad really. Randy my body shop guy, said he has seen repro parts for various cars that are much worse. This tub was purchased from KW in 2018. It has a lot of corrections from the older ones.

[gmwillys]

Reproduction parts and complete bodies are a sore spot for many restorations. Not just in the Heep world but in others. Several years back I was working on my Chevelle project, and was following an outfit that was making complete body kits for Cameros. At the time, they rolled out the kit, it was rumored that the Chevelle kits weren't far behind. After watching a few shows that presented the cons and a few pros to dropping $12,000 for the kit. Nothing fit correctly. The kits had to be taken down and fixed before anything else could be done. The body kits were made somewhere in Asia, and maybe next to the Juan factory.

[LarrBeard]

Your decision to go find someone who knew what he was doing and get things done correctly instead of "Bubba-ing" and butchering it wasn't chickening out - it was a really wise decision. As Clint Eastwood, another crusty old geezer once said; "A man's got to know his limitations". A saying worth remembering.

OK, it cost you some money, but it's done right and every time you decide to lower the windshield, step on the starter or look at the high beam indicator, you're not going to mumble and cuss to yourself about how it isn't right! (And even loading it up and hauling it to the body shop - you probably spent fewer calendar days getting it fixed than if you had kept on trying it yourself).

I like the deep green - definitely not OD or CARG, but a solid respectable Jeep color. Jeeps just should NEVER be Poison Lime Green or Hello Kitty Pink like some of the new little SUV's.!

[bmorgil]

"A man's got to know his limitations". A saying worth remembering.

My all time favorite Eastwood Dirty Harry quote! It was written by John Frederick Milius, the writer who brought us Apocalypse Now.

Yes LarrBeard the feeling of cowardice faded quickly, when in a few hours it looked great! I was able to correct everything, but that windshield and delicate tin work around the firewall, I don't have the expertise. I know more now. I might try it my self next time. Whoops... can't let the little misses hear "next time"!

You are absolutely right, I would have thought about every mistake every time I looked at it.

gmwillys I couldn't imagine shelling out $12,000 in several years back cash value (3% inflation), and having it not be perfect. Man that would hurt. I really can't complain. Taking your story and several from the early 2000's on Juan Tubs, I didn't have to do much. I think it looks pretty original. We will see in August! There will be a lot of originals bodies to compare it to in the Toledo parade (If I "git er done").

[bmorgil]

Well this saga goes on. Windshield is all fitted up nice and we are having trouble getting the latches to hook. They just don't go up far enough. The next thing is a big question for you all. How sloppy is the fit between the hole in the windshield arm and the pilot on the pivot bolt? I have new stainless pivot bolts. They are smaller by a good 1/16" than the hole in the windshield. It makes for a sloppy fit. Is this the way it is? The body shop boy's are unhappy with it. These are show car guy's however. I did have to dial them down from custom mixed 15 coat see through pearl essence.

What do you all think? Are the pivot bolts that sloppy?

[gmwillys]

Not 1/16" sloppy. The well used and abused '46 we have, with the original rusted out windshield is tighter than that, at about 2 to 4/32". It's a pain to try and balance the windshield while trying to start the bolt in the caged nut.

[bmorgil]

Dang it! This will be a pain to fix.

[TJones]

Bmorgil,
I bought the same nuts for mine from KW’s and I had the same problem until I got the windshield PCed and now it fits tight. I’m not sure about the size but I think their 9/16 and I bought SS washers to fit over the shoulder of the bolt and maybe even put one on the inside and it will tighten up pretty good on the windshield arms.
I even bought some sticky one side 1” x 3/4” weather stripping and put it on the bottom edge of the windshield frame where it sits on the cowl and it helped tighten everything up as well.

[bmorgil]

The hole in the frame is much larger than the pivot. The windshield kind of flops around on them. I bought the type with the wing nut just to try a different type. The threads on my stainless ones didn't get any lube and the stainless galled up. What a mess! Well I'll see if the wing nuts fit any better. I also bought washers for the inside and out. The first thing that happened was the windshield dug right into the nut when the frame pivoted. So new frame mounts and new pivot bolts and we will try this again.

[TJones]

Yes I had the same thing happen.
I welded fine thread nuts on the back of the bracket and had them PCed, then I started trying to get the windshield fitted and low and behold some idiot forgot to Never-Seeze the stainless pivot bolt and it galled together.
My mentor that’s been helping has told me.....at least a dozen times ALWAYS Never-Seeze stainless. It’s not as bad with stainless bolt and nut verses stainless bolt and non-stainless nut.
So back to unbolting the bracket,take a dremel with a cutting wheel, split the nut, weld on another and send it out to get re-PCed. Oh and order another pivot nut from KW only to find out you can only order them by the pair.
I’m my worst enemy!!!!
P.S. Always Use NS on stainless bolts/nuts:):)

[bmorgil]

Oh man! You would be shocked at how many people don't realize that under high pressure loads, stainless will "gall". Literally weld itself together. This mistake is the worst there is. The fastener fails exactly in the mode you are trying to prevent. It seizes up much tighter than a rusted bolt and nut. Once it galls up and stops turning its over. Now you will have to cut it off or, break it. Sometimes I wonder if using stainless is worth the trouble! I am using it everywhere grade 8 isn't required. I like the way they look and, they don't rust up and stain the paint.

[bmorgil]

The horrors! I get up in the night to.... old guy you know. I step right into a soaking wet carpet. Bathroom stop valve leaking. Soaks the floor runs under the wall ruins carpet drywall ceiling below. Panic, towels razor knife cut up the carpet , haul it out through the garage, shop light falls on newly painted Jeep front fender and grill. Big gouge on the top of the fender. Big chip on top of the grill.

Well s..t happens. So I figure I have only run it long enough to verify it starts and seems to run. It's time to bring it to temp. It comes up to temp awfully quick. I begin to see steam from the front and the rear studs on the manifold. Dang it I used high dollar Loctite thread sealer on those. I am still wondering why it got to 180 deg so quickly. I have a 165 thermostat, Aluminum radiator and a nice fitting shroud. I am going to lose sleep. I bored this motor .080 over. Could the sonic test have been in-accurate? My mind races. I pull the studs. The Loctite seems to have not adhered to the stud. Installer error. Obviously I didn't clean the oil off the threads on those two. No trouble elsewhere. I pressure check it to 16 lbs. It holds for 15 min. I drive my GMC 4 hours with my son to look at a car he is salivating over. On the way he drives, I provide study aid for his upcoming grad school exams. He is cramming, I cannot pronounce the words in his notes. I am thinking very little. Suddenly it hits me, after the world fell on my newly painted front end I threw a furniture blanket over the FRIGAN' GRILL! Had to clear my mind to think straight!

Taking the fender back to the paint shop. Watching all the auto races today. Drinking some Angry Orchard hard cider. I will start again tomorrow!

[LarrBeard]

In the dead of winter I keep one of the small ceramic heaters on the floor under the skid plate under the oil pan. After a while I figured that the warm air was floating out through the radiator - duhhh ..

Then I figured out that the magnetic fender covers I almost always use clipped onto the grill very nicely, stayed put and didn't scratch anything.

As for thermostats - once bitten you stay shy for a long time. I had one stick in January 2018 and puke coolant everywhere - I still find a little if I look close enough. I have found that when I set out at my usual putter around pace, the '48 heats up to about 180, then the thermostat opens and things settle down at 160.

But, if I get in a hurry and push things, the back end of the engine where the sensor is will get really warm (well above 185 on the gauge) before the front end warms up enough to open the thermostat. I had a scare last Saturday on the way to a show because we were a bit late and I got in a hurry. Since I had one thermostat stick - I keep a close eye on temperature until everything gets settled at 160.

[gmwillys]

I thought I had the market cornered on the snowball effect. Look on the bright side, the moving blanket helped to point out the thread sealant didn't adhere. Everything happens for a reason.

[bmorgil]

Hahahaha! Perfect gmwillys! Just perfect. That is the attitude that keeps us pushing forward.

Attached photo of the way the day ended.

[bmorgil]

Check out the way the fan sucked the blanket in tight. It was draped over the bumper! I think the fan has a good "pull"! So as you said gmwillys, the good news is the blanket is providing a test environment.

[bmorgil]

Man I am having trouble with that stud leaking steam. I pulled the front and rear studs. Cleaned as best I could. I used Permatex thread sealant on the entire motor. The white stuff. Expensive. I have used it for a long time. I first used it building racing engines long ago. It worked well on head studs. I noticed the first time I tore it down, there was no adhesion to the threads. They were steam cleaned. I used some lacquer thinner on them but, the threads in the block are tough to clean. I reassembled and I fired it up, and it still leaked though not as bad, from the rear stud. Pull it apart again. The front stud seamed to seal, but I didn't trust it. So drained the water again, and pulled both studs. The front stud was sealing up. I put on more goop and put it back in. On the back one I cleaned it up, and used Aviation Form-a-Gasket. Fired it back up The front stud is good, the rear however is not. Though not producing any water, it is producing some steam. It seems like it is a little less each time I fire it up and bring it to temp. Man this is a tough one to seal. The threads must be too sloppy. I wonder if silicone might work.

Any ideas you guy's?

[gmwillys]

Being a cheap bass turd, when I would build up my derby car power plants, it was getting expensive to reseal the headers after each run. Orange high temp silicone was liberally smeared onto the zoomie mount plates, out of frustration. I ran three times in one summer without having to reseal.... Did that for several years, on several different engines and header combos.
Essentially, you are dealing with the block threads that has had some erosion from a leak. The sealants are building up the threads, or at least the voids within the threads.

[LarrBeard]

Look for little cracks ... Yuck!

Helicoil?

Don't go to magic mud in the coolant until all else fails.

[bmorgil]

Look for little cracks ... Yuck!

Helicoil?

Don't go to magic mud in the coolant until all else fails.

LarrBeard, your first words are scary. I thought about cracks. I had everything Magnafluxed at the Machine Shop. The heat has a way of opening cracks however.

The Helicoil... I may have had to put one in there. Now I don't remember! I put in a few.

gmwillys, I wonder if it will "heal" after a few more cycles? I have never used Aviation Form a Gasket on a stud. It seems to be less each cycle.

I also thought about trying some Permatex #1. I have never used it. I have definitely removed it. When I was a young rookie mechanic tearing down and cleaning for reassembly was my Job. The things I was cleaning.. Heavy Truck transmissions. I swore I would never use that stuff because it was so hard to remove! Now I wonder if it might do the trick. I have no experience using it. I only know it is like asphalt to remove.

[bmorgil]

Oh man... getting close now.

[LarrBeard]

I had another of my "Duhhh" moments. Ask the folks at the machine shop where you had the motor work done what they recommend for your steamin' stud. They do this for a living instead of offering shade tree advice.

[bmorgil]

Wow what a stellar suggestion! I rant and rave about how I love my shop, and forget about them when the bullets fly. The "DUH" is on me.

[gmwillys]

I agree with LarrBeard. Magic mud isn't intended for a permanent solution. My high temp story may have been misleading. High temp RTV would be alright to get you home, but not for a permanent fix.

[bmorgil]

Get ready for some controversy...

Called a couple of shops. The one I use and, one I used when building engines in Arizona. These are both high end machine shops. Consulting with a few of the builders the response:

"Use black silicone on all studs entering the water jacket!"

I can tell you that while working for Dana, they owned Victor Gasket. The tech guys there swore by it and, Dana used and uses it without any gasket on many things (All Spicer axles since the 1980's). The proper application was stressed. Not to much as excess could enter and cure in lubricant and water. Cleanliness if adhesion was required, was equally important. Used correctly it is good stuff. I have seen the results of careless silicone usage. I saw what happens when it enters the oil pump and, gets into the rollers of a racing engine's lifters.

Apparently this method guaranties a no leak fire up. I am going to let it go for a few more cycles. If it dries up, I'll leave it alone. The front one dried up nicely. If it steams even a little after a break in run, it gets silicone. I'll give a "sit rep" in a few weeks on it, if I remember.

The most interesting conversations are on the "Jalopy" old car web site. The fellows there are so used to it they all say the same thing. Put in some bars leak or, just leave it alone it will stop.

[LarrBeard]

... just leave it alone it will stop.

While the truck was hibernating in the barn for 35 years, I got greasy and busted a lot of knuckles piddling around with this beast that lives about six miles east of me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66Bu1IppWI

Those guys taught me not to be in too big a hurry to try to fix minor leaks (at 310 PSI, a lot of things leak at first fit-up). Time and a little corrosion tighten things up in a lot of cases.

(By the way, 765 is pulling about 20 80-foot steel passenger coaches, an auxiliary tender full of water, a tool car and TWO totally redundant diesel-electric locomotives through the Horseshoe Curve at track speed and not even breathing hard).

[bmorgil]

Nuff said LarrBeard! Nice Locomotive! Now that is a toy.

I will be patient.

[bmorgil]

I am a bit baffled by the water temp gauge capillary tube. It is so long I could hook up a gauge in the rear tailgate. I am beginning to think someone may have replaced the capillary tube and, did not know how to shorten it? I am unsure if you can do such a thing. This is my first mechanical temp gauge. The gauge appears to be the original. The capillary tube looks different than some pictures I have seen. It is a solid heavy black line. It has no covering. It is fairly ridged. It is a mile long.

I am reading out there on the WWW, that they are all long and you "coil them" under the dash. Someone wrote "if you look under the dash of a WWII Willys you will see coiled tubes".

[gmwillys]

They are all long, and they do get coiled up. The gage you have is a fairly modern gage, where the ones Willys used would go in a circle, with a center needle.

[LarrBeard]

" ...I am unsure if you can do such a thing.. ".

Well, like most everything, you can do it if you really, really want to - but it's a lot of trouble and usually not worth it.

Google "Shorten capillary gauge tubes" and you'll find a lot of info, much of it conflicting.

The mechanical temperature gauge is really a pressure gauge! The capillary tube is filled with either a low boiling point liquid (like a Freon or ether) or a gas that expands when the tip (bulb) of the capillary heats up. As pressure builds in the tube, it uncoils a Bourdon-tube like spiral in the gauge that moves the pointer. (Actual mechanisms may vary a bit - they could be diaphragm gauges ...).

If you cut the tube to shorten it, all the magic stuff in it goes "pfffttt" and escapes, kind of like the magic smoke coming out of electrical parts.

Coil it up, stash it away and carry on!

[bmorgil]

Good stuff guy's. Thanks, I am clear now. I was confident that the gauge was original, now I am sure it is not. By "modern" gmwillys I am thinking you might mean like maybe 60's 70's? It looks old. In any event Googling the original gauge leads me to believe the repro's are cheap and, effective. I am going to swap it out. This info was imperative in my decision. Thanks again!

[gmwillys]

Modern is a relative term around here.

[bmorgil]

I am getting ready to set the hood on. I think there should be something for the rear of the hood to set on against the cowl. I have the felt down at the grill but, what about the back? I think there is supposed to be a "Gutter" there also. All I have right now is the hinge. It seems the hood would bang against the cowl in the back.

[TJones]

bmorgil,
I went to Menards and picked up a roll of weatherseal tape that has adhesive on one side and it worked great on the grill, I'm sure it would work good on the cowl under the hood.
The only reason I considered it was to keep the hood from rattling on the grill, I probably will do the same on the back along the cowl as well.
Just a suggestion.

[bmorgil]

I traveled around the WWW, and I discovered this complaint is another normal. A few things had to be done to get the windshield frame to fit.

A recap:

The repro windshield frame did not fit the repro tub cowl. The arms had to be cut and aligned, then welded.
The repro tub had a CJ2A dash (wrong ignition switch location, no high beam indicator hole) that had to be corrected.
The repro tub came with the wrong windshield frame mounts. (M38 slotted low profile style)
The new windshield glass from KW had to be ground to fit the repro frame. I had the glass professionally installed. I could not get it to go in. The glass shop had to grind it a bunch to fit. The corners had to be radius differently to match the frame and, it was slightly wide side to side. Never seen that done before! Diamond belt sander. Nice! The glass guy had the capability to make the windshield in his shop! Money well spent. Fits like custom glass.

With all these issues I was not to shocked when the cowl seal fit like crap. Word on the WWW points to cheap. A few fellas said prepare to pay $50 or more for a "good" one. OK, I just paid $50 for a "good" one. I will let you all know how this turns out! I think all in all, I am still not complaining too much about the repro tub.

[TJones]

My windshield to cowl fit was about the same, I left the rubber seal out and put the weather seal I was talking about under the windshield frame instead of the rubber seal.
I did so much bending, cutting and rewelding on the arms the rubber seal didn’t even come close to fitting right so I put it back in the seal box.

[LarrBeard]

The good news is that those are some of the best pictures we've seen of that deep green paint job. Really a nice color!

[bmorgil]

Thanks LarrBeard! The paint supply did a great job of matching the original Emerald Green. I am trying to preserve the "original" look. I had to keep the reins on the body shop pro's. They wanted to smooth out all the welds and make it like glass inside and out. With the paint match on the original color, and the body prep normal for the day, I think it should look and run like it did back in the day.

[bmorgil]

I must have a procedure or, an adjustment wrong. I have the project just about done. Moved the jeep under its own power today. Tweaking and adjusting everything. I am having trouble with the stater. Sometimes when I push the starter pedal it just makes an awful crashing grinding sound, no L134 motor rotation. So I have to hit it a few times, it grinds and crashes, and then it will engage and start right up. If I touch the starter pedal gently, it seems to be better than if I jump on the pedal hard. It sounds like it is grinding the ring gar right off the flywheel! Sometimes it is perfect. Hit the pedal, it cranks and fires right up. Sometimes It sounds like a cat being dragged across a screen door. No engagement and an awful grinding sound. It is a "new" rebuilt starter from KW. The ring gear was perfect.

What the heck?

[LarrBeard]

"What the heck?"

Yeah. Owhhhh ..

I hate to ask this comment, but there are different tooth counts on ring gears and on starter drives (I think). If there is a tooth pitch mismatch .....

Is there any adjustment in the engagement throw on the starter linkage?

[bmorgil]

It works flawlessly sometimes, and sometimes it crashes into the ring gear and does not engage. When it works its great. When it doesn't it is an awful crash of gears.

I know very little about the starter. I sent the original off to KW. They rebuilt it and returned it. If there are any adjustments, I didn't make any. I guess it time to do a "deep dive" into how the starter works! I have read there appears to be an adjustment on the switch. I don't know anything about it yet.

[LarrBeard]

There isn't a lot in there to go wrong. In what shape is that little bronze/brass bushing that supports the end of the shaft out past the gear. If that was wallowed out, the end of the shaft might be wiggling a bit...

I do know there are some pretty stiff springs in that Bendix and a lot of warnings about taking one apart.

[LarrBeard]

It works flawlessly sometimes, and sometimes it crashes into the ring gear and does not engage. When it works its great. When it doesn't it is an awful crash of gears.

I know very little about the starter. I sent the original off to KW. They rebuilt it and returned it. If there are any adjustments, I didn't make any. I guess it time to do a "deep dive" into how the starter works! I have read there appears to be an adjustment on the switch. I don't know anything about it yet.


Here is probably a lot more than you thought you wanted to know ...

https://www.cj3b.info/Tech/Starter.html

http://www.cj3apage.com/cgi-bin/3Ayabb26/YaBB.pl?num=1459210810

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/damage-flywheel-ring-gear_topic38252.html

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/starter-problems_topic9241.html

[bmorgil]

LarrBeard, there are 2 post there I missed some how. You definitely have a strong search capability! The first link is a great read.

I think the answer was in the service manual. The CJ3A's use a starter contact that is adjustable. The button that contacts the starter lever, can be increased or decreased in length. This effectively changes the amount of pinion gear engagement before the electrical contacts touch. I think mine is out to far. It is making electrical contact to early, letting the pinion spin up before it is engaged in the ring gear. If that's it, I hope I didn't ruin a nice original ring gear!

I will check it out after coffee tomorrow. I need to post some pics. Almost done. I pulled it out yesterday under it's own power! A big day at the house. The clutch was very finicky about adjustment. With the "book" 1 and 1/4 inch free-play at the pedal, it would not disengage fully. At 1/2 an inch of free-play, all is well. Between the starter issue and the clutch adjustment grinding of the gears no disengagement, I have a pound of gear dust for sale.

[LarrBeard]

Good catch on the early spin-up.

That was mentioned in several of the places I looked. I've fooled around with these things for 50+ years and I never really sat down and realized that when the starter spins up, the first motion of the drive gear is axial, not rotational, as it slides down the spiral cut on the shaft to engage the ring gear teeth. Only when it hits those teeth does it start any real rotation. We understand so many things so late ...

"With the "book" 1 and 1/4 inch free-play at the pedal, it would not disengage fully. At 1/2 an inch of free-play, all is well"


Well, we know they will do what they want to do. I made a very nice road trip Saturday to a show that was about a 100-mile round trip. In preparation I made sure that the differential had just exactly the right amount of oil in it "according to the book". Well, it doesn't like that much oil and over the course of the trip it put the oil level back where it wanted it to be. (It throws out the vent on top of the axle - not a leaky seal...).

It was a fantastic show and I spent most of the day on my feet telling the legend about the truck over and over. It was a fancy show, with Lamborghini SUV's, the "Scoby-Doo" cartoon truck, a Batmobile from up at Auburn, ADAM-12 car and such. Corvettes were as common as elbows - but only one old Jeep.

Little kids "drove" it, as well as a couple of their Grannies. And, as you will find out when you start taking your Jeep out - everyone had one "just like that" when they were kids. You know the car show sign -"Don't touch me, I'm not that kind of car". The Truck says "Touch me, I'll probably giggle!"

I'm looking forward to Toledo.

[gmwillys]

If I were to have a sign at a car show, it would read only touch if your tetanus shot is up to date.

Great information on the starter adjustment! We all learn a little bit more every day.

[bmorgil]

OK time to put in some final pics. It was a fun project without question.

Some final thoughts on the MD Juan tub. All and all it is a good value. It is not a turn key kit. I still have a fender that needs adjustment that I can't get. It is just to far out. The biggest challenge by far has been the throttle. The hole position, the firewall behind the linkage on the engine, it was very bad. Even after a lot of modification it is not perfect. The holes for the windshield wiper motors are not centered in their mounts. I had to file a new paint job to oblong the holes. The windshield seal will never work. I have a list of things that occurred on the tub. I will post it in tech.

I have about 10 miles on it now, several short runs. It is running hotter than I like. I am convinced I received a wrong thermostat from KW. I ordered a 160 but, the L134 runs right up to 180 and seems to hold there, as long as I am moving along. A little running through the grass however and the temp runs right up to 200. When it shuts down it will go up over 210. It is not boiling over however, I am not sure I trust the new gauge. I have a few oil drips to find. As it builds cooling pressure, the dag nab manifold stud is still steaming water. It seems like no matter how hard I tried to prevent it, it still has a few small leaks. It tracks well and smooth. I am going to run a mock up parade route to make sure it doesn't get to hot.

[bmorgil]

Put it up in the air and started at the Gremlins.

An oil drip from the front motor plate lower stud. Pull it out, silicone, back in.

Rear Exhaust Manifold Stud!! Brutal little #$%@*. Drain the water, pulled it, cleaned it with a small engine brush while spraying with brake clean. Blew it out. Using the Machinists suggestion, black silicone sparingly on the threads. I will let it dry overnight.

Pulled the thermostat. It has to be wrong. I drove it 5 miles at 40 MPH. And it holds a steady 180. I bought a 160. I sat down with the local auto parts store, an old time store. We used a cross reference and size chart to determine a Made in USA Stant part number 13006, 2.125 diameter. So I drilled an air relief in it, and made a new gasket.

[LarrBeard]

"... So I drilled an air relief in it,..."

Ok - what is this trick?

[bmorgil]

"... So I drilled an air relief in it,..."

OK - what is this trick?

Well "back in the day"... This one comes from the 60's early 70's. Thermostats used to have a small "valve" or floating brass rivet that allowed air that might be trapped to pass through a closed thermostat. It was thought that air that was introduced to the block and heads, would get trapped on the back side of the valve. The small hole in the flange would allow the air to escape, preventing a steam trap that would keep the thermostat out of the water.

Sometime in the 60's or 70's that small hole was left out. At that time we stated putting them back in with a Black and Decker. I can tell you this whole theory depends on one heck of a good seal between the T-stat and the housing and the T-stat valve itself. I think it would be rare to find one that tight.

The air hole is a good practice with no bad side effect. On these L134's, the T-stat housing is sitting way up there. It is begging to trap air. The original bellows design T-stat sat right in the water in the head, where it should be. The L134 is a low pressure low volume system. The modern pellet T-stat needs the spacer and sits way up in the housing. It also is more for a higher volume higher pressure system. The water bypass itself in the new style wax pellet valve is 1" diameter, and opens to almost 3/8". The bellows units are 1 1/8" diameter, and open to almost 1/2", making for more water flow. A 1/8" hole drilled in the "modern pellet" T-stat should get the water up there quicker if the stat is sealing well against the top of the housing. It looks like it wouldn't hurt to put in several. The modern style T-stat is a significant flow restriction in the bellows designed system. I am going to look into a few things.

Getting the modern T-stat back into the head and increasing the flow capability of the modern T-stat.

[LarrBeard]

That just might be the tip of the week! Next time out I'm gonna perforate mine too

[bmorgil]

After a lot of searching the web forums, unhappy with running temps or, erratic temp behavior on the L134 seems to be common. After watching mine behave badly, I think the "adaptation" of a modern pellet thermostat might need to be looked at a little harder. I was reading on another forum where someone is also seeing the same thing. He has actually calc'd out the flow between the two. There is a significant difference.

The thermostat sitting high in the housing and not in the head is also a big issue. I watched the temp move around on the gauge, while simultaneously taking readings with a good heat sensing gun. The temperature at the sensor fitting in the head reads right with the gauge. Hotter than the thermostat rating by 20 degrees or more at times. At times it is closer. The temperature at the top of the housing is right at the thermostat value. At idle the temperature change is pretty big. When the motor starts to heat up when you hold it at a very fast idle for an extended period, things get worse between the head and the top of the housing. The restriction seems to be holding hotter water behind the T-Stat in the head. I was able to get it to 200 on the head and 180 on the other side of the thermostat right at the hose connection. Here is where it gets unsettling. When you shut it off the water in the housing cools quickly shutting the thermostat down. The water in the head skyrockets. Easily getting to 210+. Pressure in the head gets extreme with no exit except that little hole we drilled (and leaky studs). Not a good situation.

I am going to call Stant and start with a Thermostat that opens a 1 3/8" port about 1/2". From there I will figure out a way to get it to fit under the housing and in the head like it was designed.

[bmorgil]

I picked up LarryBeard and we joined the Parade. We drove right by the entrance, drove back and in we went. "peeJ" the little Emerald Green CJ, ran warm all the way. Stuck in the parade it got to 220 on the gauge. No boil over but, hot. Idle was brutal. It would not idle under 1500 or so. The motor hated it. I stalled it at least twice. A little starter trouble (still working on that) but it was working! Well as LarrBeard put it "there are just some things ya gotta drive it around to find out". True story. All in all we limped it through. It was a blast!

It was sure acting like a clogged idle circuit or a very lean condition. Thinking vacuum leak, I started reading. It seems some gents have seen this before. A little googling led me to the fact that the carb to intake gaskets have "crush" sleeves in them. Ugh oh! I am very careful about carb attaching bolts. Over torquing these will warp the throttle body and cause huge problems.... on an aluminum carb body. The WO has a beefy iron body. It has to be tightened. I tightened it until I could feel the crushing bushings stop, and the nuts began to "draw" up tight.

It idles at 500. I bumped it to 600. Nice!

It runs up to 190 now and holds there. Still to hot for my liking. It should run closer to the 160 thermostat temperature. More to try here. The thermostat set up in general is suspect. A heat gun shows a cool radiator and a hot cylinder head. There is something here to find. An awful lot of posts about these baby's running 190 to 200 degrees. They should run much closer to the thermostat temp. It shouldn't take a "perfect sealed shroud" and a "huge radiator" to cool these little 4 cylinders. An aluminum radiator is light years better than what was in it. These little CJ's were used as tractor's! If I hooked a plow to a CJ that was running 10 to 20 degrees over the thermostat with no load, I can guarantee you it will be moments before it boils out under full low speed load. I will continue to try to improve this. Something about the way the modern thermostat is interacting does not seem right. There are to many CJ's running at 180 to 190 on the forums.

[bmorgil]

A quick note:

The Stant 13006 thermostat that fits the Willys L134, also fits all the early Big and Small block Chevrolet's from the beginning of time until the 90's.

[bmorgil]

The plot thickens! Just got off the phone with Rob at Stant. He is in agreement that a low pressure system may not work quite right with the more modern thermostat. We both do not like the T stat sitting way up in the housing away from the head. He said some may not agree but, neither of us are in favor of it. This is the most interesting part. He said the 160 deg thermostat SHOULD run at 180. If I want to run at 160 you need a 140 thermostat. This is different than what I am used to. In the old days my 160 thermostat in my 1965 Chevrolet ran about 165 on gauge. I guess things have changed.

His suggestion in the short term:

Run a premium Thermostat Stant part number 45356. It has more flow capability and is made from stainless steel.This is a 160 degree thermostat that should hold the motor at 180 running.

Use a Stant 14144 Thermostat. It is a 140 degree thermostat that should run the motor at 160.

I am going to send him pictures of what we have. He is going to look through the prints. We are going to try to find something we can put in the head with more flow capability. So all of us out there with NEW inventory 160 degree thermostat should expect 180 on the gauge. If you have an older thermostat it may be running considerably closer to 160. We will figure this out.

[LarrBeard]

Now, the F-134 has much the same thermostat housing on top of the head, but with the valves in the head the head has a different profile. I've not had long term heat problems like you have, but it does get really hot before the thermostat opens up.

Since you're rapidly getting to be an authority on another specialized topic - would a different thermostat keep the F-134 a little more consistent in heat?

In the short term - I'd just throw out the 'stat. With no more than you're going to run "peeJ", you're not going to accumulate any crud and gunk from running cold.

[gmwillys]

Don't throw out the thermostat all together. If you so choose too, cut the center out, and install the remainder of the thermostat body. This will cause a restriction, therefore keeping the water in the radiator just a bit longer to help cool it. With no restriction, the coolant doesn't have enough time to transfer heat through the radiator.

[bmorgil]

Don't throw out the thermostat all together. If you so choose too, cut the center out, and install the remainder of the thermostat body. This will cause a restriction, therefore keeping the water in the radiator just a bit longer to help cool it. With no restriction, the coolant doesn't have enough time to transfer heat through the radiator.

I agree. This is similar to what we did with racing engines. We used different size restrictions instead of a thermostat. I think LarrBeard is referring to a test. I am enlightened after my conversation with Stant. I am at a loss for why "newer" thermostats operate at different parameters than I am used to. He was clear, the 160 degree thermostat is designed to operate the engine at 180. I just don't get that logic. However that being said, it still appears the restriction with a thermostat designed to run in a 16 lb system, Is not going to function properly in a 4 pound system. The impeller in the water pump is tiny and very "old School". No way it can build enough pressure to overcome the restriction in the modern thermostat. I believe when I install a higher flow thermostat we are going to see an improvement. I am going to figure out a way to get it set up to flow like it was designed. I have the two thermostats coming.

[bmorgil]

Sorry for the string of posts. More info on thermostats. This is an eye opener. Significant difference with a bellows style thermostat. The Robert Shaw is a vintage part. I have one coming. It is going straight in I will let you know. The other is a Racing Thermostat. Notice the comments about "True opening temperature" and "high flow not sensitive to variations in pressure". Also keep in mind, the original might even sit directly in the head, no spacer. (the spacer is used originally) I think the issue is solved. I hope the issue is solved.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Robertshaw-335-160-Vintage-Thermostat-Brass-Copper-Studebaker-Jeep-Willys-160/192948670383?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Flow-Thermostat-Fit-For-Chevy-Ford-Jeep-GM-160-Degree-Robertshaw-Style-4363/293107585670?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SI M%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D57476%26meid%3Dafc1482d3d6f4a76 a158829aada3b8f7%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D1 2%26sd%3D192948670383%26itm%3D293107585670%26pg%3D 2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[gmwillys]

Great information on thermostats. If the 160 thermostat doesn't work to your satisfaction, an old friend that built our dirt track motors would recommend wetter water additive for the blocks that were punched a little thin. I used it in my derby cars when the plant was more than a one trick pony. The stuff would drop the temperature by 20 degrees on average. I'm not a big advocate for snake oils, but I never saw any adverse effects by using it.

[bmorgil]

I have used it also. It is the one "snake oil" that might be real. I think they call it a "wetting" agent". It supposedly increases the heat conductivity of the water. I will go there if the original bellows setup doesn't work.

I have thought long and hard about the bored motor. I still had plenty of wall after boring on the sonic testing. There was very little core shift in the block. Nice block. I have run thin wall 283 Chevy's. It wasn't so much they would overheat as they would heat up fast. Logic would say, the thermodynamics are such that the BTU output would not vary at any given load. Horsepower, efficiency, and the subsequent heat loss. However the water will get the heat much quicker as the wall thins. We never knew about the long run, because the problem for us was we needed to fire it up and run a quarter mile, with nothing for water. Thin walls definitely get hot faster.

[LarrBeard]

Don't throw out the thermostat all together. If you so choose too, cut the center out, and install the remainder of the thermostat body. This will cause a restriction, therefore keeping the water in the radiator just a bit longer to help cool it. With no restriction, the coolant doesn't have enough time to transfer heat through the radiator.


Well, I learned something else new today. Thanks

[bmorgil]

And some more on the thermostat. The service manual spells it out very clear for the 160 deg thermostat.

"The standard thermostat on the CJ-2A and the CJ-3A is designed to start opening at 150 deg and be fully open at 170 deg". This is far different than a current pellet style 160. It starts opening at 160 deg and is fully open at 180 deg.

This is all making sense now.

[LarrBeard]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Robertshaw-335-160-Vintage-Thermostat-Brass-Copper-Studebaker-Jeep-Willys-160/192948670383?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



I grabbed one as well ... there are two left.

[LarrBeard]

And, when I get the Robertshaw thermostat I'm going to heat it up in a pot of water with the turkey thermometer to make sure it still works - it may be 40-years old!

[bmorgil]

And, when I get the Robertshaw thermostat I'm going to heat it up in a pot of water with the turkey thermometer to make sure it still works - it may be 40-years old!

Ha Ha! I had the same revelation. I just received the new "Racing" Milodon 160 deg. Thermostat https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-16400. Wow it is definitely a higher flow Thermostat. It was $24! I can see why. All brass and stainless. I will be testing things out soon.

[scoutingranch]

The price was right on those Robertshaw, I bought two, in case one doesn't work.

[LarrBeard]

The price was right on those Robertshaw, I bought two, in case one doesn't work.

I started poking around looking at coolant efficiencies and I found this interesting thread. It relates to a specific product, but it gave me a better idea of how little micro bubbles could form in engine cooling jackets - kind of like the little bubbles on the bottom of the pan before water boils. I can see how rough spots from the casting could be a starting point for these little pockets of water vapor.

We get smarter and smarter about less and less and pretty soon we'll know everything about nothing - kind of like a doctor today.

Water boils at 212.

50/50 ethylene glycol boils at 223.

A modern 14 PSI pressure cap raises 50/50 ethylene glycol boiling point to about 250.

With a 4 PSI cap, peeJ was getting close, (maybe 225 -230) but no burp.

https://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-works/benefits/no-overheating/

[bmorgil]

We were within 5 deg of it (Chernobyl), right at the head. The jump out and get the "LarrBeards coffee cup installed" to prop the hood, was the few degrees we needed to prevent it! A little "Air Cooling". Good call Senior Chief!

The temp gun told the tale when I got it home. It was hot 220, right at the sender, which is placed in the hottest spot of the motor. Right on top the combustion chambers. The water on the other radiator side of the housing was 190. At the radiator top it was 170. It might have steamed it right at the sender, but I think it was a ways from a spewing boil over.

I put the Milodon in last night. It runs up to about 180 then drops back to 160. Idling for about 5 min the temp creeps up to about 190 and holds. I am in a parade in a few weeks. It will be a good test. When the Robertshaw gets here, it will give me an opportunity to see how it runs as originally intended.

The Milodon will set right in the head no problem. The Thermostat housing will need to have a relief milled into it for clearance. I am going to try this also. This should help the temp gauge run closer to what the thermostat is doing. This is the way the F head is set up (and most motors).

[LarrBeard]

My wife asked; “what are you doing on my stove?”

I replied; “Testing a thermostat.”

Wife; “Why?”

Me; “It’s a Jeep project.”

Wife; “Oh, I understand… .”

She’s starting to get it!

OK, I got the eBay Robertshaw thermostat today and before I drained coolant and tore off the thermostat housing, I wanted to see just what I had.

Short answer – It’s not going into my truck.

This isn’t what we hoped it would be. We were hoping for an old bellows unit that would start to open at 140 and be full open at 160. It looks a lot like a wax pellet unit – it starts to peep open a little at 160 and it’s not full open until about 190-plus.

Don’t bother!

[bmorgil]

Awsome LarrBeard! Just saved me a lot of time. The Milodon is the way to go I think. I just got back from the ice cream shop with the misses. 160 all the way there and all the way back. The low speed driving still seems to creep up but, nothing like before. Definitely a big change for the good. I am going to keep it in. I will confer the Robertshaw to the "Alter of Willys" in the shop.

Well tell the misses... "It's a Jeep Thing"!

[bmorgil]

Wow! In the first show the little CJ3A "peeJ" is entered in, it comes home a first place winner! small show, 170+ cars. Still a nice showing for the little Jeep. Good parts and great help.

I have to say a huge thanks to this web site and, KW for the parts. Definitely a big part of this project.

[gmwillys]

Great news! It was all on your excellence in execution on the restoration. She is a fine looking Jeep! You, LarrBeard, and Ira have made your Heeps into Jeeps once again. Before too long, you'll have to build a shelf for all of your trophies. Ours would win the "Most Likely to Need a Tetanus Shot" award.

[LarrBeard]

Congratulations!!!

[gmwillys]

Congratulations on making it front and center to the Willys Jeep Life page!

https://blog.kaiserwillys.com/second-owner-of-a-cj-3a-restoring-his-first-willys-jeep

[TJones]

CONGRATULATIONS Bob!!!!!
All your “Labor of Love” Paid off, peeJ and yourself are famous now:):)
Seriously you did a Great Job on your Jeep.

[bmorgil]

Haha!! You mean "Infamous". I think the deck was stacked. How can you miss if you run it by this web site! And don't forget, Larry has mysterious power.

[TJones]

Let's see..............He is in pretty tight with Amy, good point:):):)

[gmwillys]

It doesn't hurt to have LarrBeard riding shotgun through Toledo, but I think PeeJ earned it's spot in print through Bmorgil's attention to details.

[TJones]

It doesn't hurt to have LarrBeard riding shotgun through Toledo, but I think PeeJ earned it's spot in print through Bmorgil's attention to details.

AMEN to That!!!!

[bmorgil]

I love you's guy's!

[5JeepsAz]

Great Jeep!

[gmwillys]

We just speak the truth. You did a fine job, and it shows. Senior Chief LarrBeard gave his stamp of approval, and that holds a lot of weight.

[bmorgil]

Just to good of weather to keep her inside any longer. Uncovered the Willys and rolled to the DQ! Perfect all the way. After setting for a bit lo and behold the famed cheap oil filter supply line (the one you can't get to behind the fuel pump) is dripping ever so slightly. I remember pelago had the same problem with a cheap hose. I hope KW is aware there is a very large bad batch of these. I read pelago was able to actually pull his apart. I also read on another forum a guy had four of them pull apart! Well I can tell you I also have a bad one. I have a new one coming from Walck's. He claims these are not the "leaky cheapies". I am going to try to find a guy who can make one once I get the old new one off. I will let you know how the Walcks line looks.

This is definitely something to watch for if you replaced that line. If that line lets go you will lose all the oil quickly as well as the oil pressure.

[bmorgil]

OK time to clean it up for the Summer. Man is this thing dusty. This will be the first wash and wax. You wouldn't think dust was so hard to get cleaned up. Damn Garage Queens"!

[LarrBeard]

On Ham's '48 we put a fancy stress relieved steel line between the return port on the filter and the timing gear cover sump. It turned out not to be stress relieved enough; it lasted about three trips around town until it split out at a flare. That gave a new meaning to "oil bath" besides the air cleaner. A big oil leak plus a fan equals a mess. We did a quick get it home repair that is still there - we used a metal stub line at each end with a clamped rubber hose in the middle.

Out here in the country the farmers are always playing around and raising a big cloud of dust. Even with the car barn closed up, dust infiltrates everywhere. A cover might help, but if I want to just start the truck or make a quick grocery store run, taking it off, wadding it up, putting it back on etc. is just too big a bother. I have a fluffy duster that does a good job of just getting dust off the trruck.

[gmwillys]

That's why I'm keeping the 2A in the buff. Dust just blows off on the first trip to town.

[bmorgil]

"In the buff" I love it! I have a "knock around" for trips to the grocery store. peeJ is so pretty, I hate to think it might have to roll on a dirty road. Haha, I am sure it will get dirty at some point. I like the feather duster idea. I have a stone drive. The fine dust is everywhere.

[gmwillys]

The 2A will get the required body work before I tip over, but for now it is in its birthday suit. When the wagon is finished, then the 2A will get torn down for a major overhaul. Looking around at some other rat rod builds, and they recommend Gibbs wax to brush on metal conditioner for bare metal builds. That would beat clear coat alone because it turns dark after a couple of years.

[5JeepsAz]

After crawling under mine I have a whole nother appreciation for frame off nuts and bolts resto. It's the only way to be sure!

[bmorgil]

I think you will find yourself working on them either way!

[bmorgil]

Everything happens for a reason. My new oil line is leaking so I am replacing it with a "Made in USA". I put peeJ up in the air to take a look from underneath. Lo and behold the new fuel pump pivot pin has fallen out to the point it is striking the fuel pump bolt! Thank God it hit the bolt or I would have been stranded somewhere. Look close and you can see the leak and the pin! Two birds with one boulder.

[gmwillys]

That was a bit of luck through miss fortune. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

[bmorgil]

Truly lucky there gm! My usual would have been for the pin to fall half way out cock in the housing, seize up and wipe out the cam lobe!

[gmwillys]

I thought only I had luck like that. If I didn't have bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all.

[LarrBeard]

Uhhhh ... That's a design feature guys.

Since the bolt head will act as a retainer if the pin works out, the pin really doesn't have to fit all that tightly - it will be OK.

(Yeah, sure...)

[bmorgil]

Excellent forethought by our elders there!

[bmorgil]

I was reading a post by LarrBeard regaling us in the tale of his beautiful truck spraying oil all over his engine compartment. I thought to myself what a terrible thing to happen to such a like new super clean engine compartment. A "baptism by fire". Then I decided to dry up my last little issues with my oil lines and change out the filter for the first time since the restore. A whopping 150 miles on it. All went smooth. I had and have had trouble with that copper gasket under the filter canister bolt. The copper requires a lot of force to make it seal and a used one will never seal well. I do not like applying a lot of torque to that bolt. I have used composites but I could not come up with one "FAST ENOUGH". Oh the cost of that!

I decided to fabricate one out of some thick soft gasket material. It didn't work. Took it for a 2 mile spin. Pumped 1/2 of a quart of oil onto the underside of the hood, all over the distributor, Alternator various other parts. I got back from the ride only to see massive oil dripping from the front of the jeep to the back. Amazing the mess that causes.

Spending the day taking things apart and cleaning it all back up. Well it needed a good "dusting off" after the winter! And of course the first show of the year not cancelled due to COVID is Tuesday! I will be taking apart and cleaning for the next 2 days. I went to the Auto parts store looking for a "Willys A-1233 Gasket" for the cover bolt. On line https://www.rfjp.com/p-131-oil-filter-cover-bolt-gasket-a1233.aspx But I wanted it now and not copper! It is a 7/16" I.D. x 1" O.D. gasket. I found several assortments. I bought them all. Here we go again.

DA#@ IT!!!!!

[LarrBeard]

" I was reading a post by LarrBeard regaling us in the tale of his beautiful truck spraying oil all over his engine compartment."

"Git off the rig Luke, it's gonna' blow!"

At least it's clean oil! Well, I too still have an issue under the oil filter cannister. At least one of the lines has a leak, I have oil down the distributor side of the engine and that is just about the only place it can come from.

I have metal ends on both the suction and drain side of the cannister and if I am lucky, I will have a loose fitting. If not, I have a split flare and I will need to replace either the stub end of the sump or the whole metal line that snakes back over behind the fuel pump.

I had the first show of the year last weekend and we managed to end up in the top 20 or so of the 50 awards for older than 1999 I was up to my axole in Mustangs, Chevy SS, GTO's, Camaros, 442's; but the Toledo iron did fairly well.

I always get graded down on "Engine". There isn't a cheap chrome pack for a F-134 and my engine is used to move the truck from Point A to Point B, so it does accumulate a few bugs.

Try to get one of those big old yellow-gutted grasshoppers out of the fins of a black radiator. His head, body and wings stick to the front and all of his innards go through the fan and spray under the hood. The joys of the MidWest in July.

[TJones]

I’m about half afraid to take mine out for a spin, every time I come back I have a new drip somewhere. It’s either a brake line, transfer case, transmission leaking by the seal on the input shaft into the bell housing or something else.
You take your time putting them together to keep this s#]t from becoming a pain in your ars later.

[bmorgil]

I hear ya TJ! Not to worry it will be fun no matter. I dread the day I get caught in the rain or worse, hit a newly paved road! Larry talking about the bugs has me terified. I live fairly close to the lake. Big flying monsters here. Many at a time. The definition of "swarms".

[TJones]

At least I got her to run around 140-150 pretty consistently!!

[gmwillys]

Yet another reason not to have fancy paint.... Bugs, tar and chipped roads, dirt toads, no problem. Fixing the bugs that pop up are all part of the fun. 150 is pretty good number for this time of year.

[TJones]

Yet another reason not to have fancy paint.... Bugs, tar and chipped roads, dirt toads, no problem. Fixing the bugs that pop up are all part of the fun. 150 is pretty good number for this time of year.

Yes it is gm, especially for it hovering around 90-94 these days in NE Ohio!!!!
I’d still like to get a shroud put on it to keep from somebody sticking their hand into the infamous “wood chipper” fan blade I have on it. All and all it is running pretty good, I just get a little frustrated sometimes but everyone tells me to be patient, it took 3.5 years to finish it and it’s probably going to take a little time to perfect it.
I learned A LOT of WHAT’S, HOWS, and WHY’S along the way, one main one is when you build a fuel cell put baffles in it. Every time it gets to about a 1/2 a tank and you go around a corner the electric fuel pump it starved for fuel and starts whining real loud through the whole Heep and part of that is “ no baffles in the tank” and the other is “mounting the pump” in the frame rail!!!
The lessons we learn are what makes us Wiser I guess!!!

[bmorgil]

Oh the science of fuel systems and cells! Just remember TJ, after many, many years in the Automotive Industry, I can tell you it takes the best many years. When a prototype starts today it is indeed fast tracked. It still takes a few years to "Launch" a completely redesigned vehicle like yours. Unlike you, the "Team" consistences of the best engineers of varying types, skilled manpower and experimental drivers (my first job in OE Manufacturing). These "Teams" took a few years, when I was driving in the late 70's. We had the best of everything for a shop, tools and budget. The prototypes were delivered to the drivers for a beating. None that I ever heard of just went straight to production.

For a "Team" you have you for design and engineering, and yourself for skilled labor. Your "Advisory Team" is a bunch of guy's on the Internet! You wanted perfect the first time? Perhaps we dream to high?

[gmwillys]

True. Trials and tribulations. Three and a half years is a blink in time. I've had our two Heeps for 30 years, with the vast majority of the time them being in storage. The 2A will be road worthy again soon, (not that it stopped me before) so I'll get some windshield time by the fall. The wagon on the other hand will take a considerable amount of time to get it the way I want it to run. A lot of fabrication and a transplant of power will take the most time. No set schedule for completion.

A baffle will make all the difference in the world in your fuel tank. I know that there are kits available to turn an existing fuel tank into a EFI ready fuel system, with a built in sump to prevent fuel starvation;

https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=84/category_id=61/mode=prod/prd84.htm

https://aeromotiveinc.com/tech-help/phantom/

I'm having a brain fade and do not recall if you were running fuel injection or a carb, but either way I would explore the possibilities of making a sump for the fuel pickup.

[TJones]

True. Trials and tribulations. Three and a half years is a blink in time. I've had our two Heeps for 30 years, with the vast majority of the time them being in storage. The 2A will be road worthy again soon, (not that it stopped me before) so I'll get some windshield time by the fall. The wagon on the other hand will take a considerable amount of time to get it the way I want it to run. A lot of fabrication and a transplant of power will take the most time. No set schedule for completion.
A baffle will make all the difference in the world in your fuel tank. I know that there are kits available to turn an existing fuel tank into a EFI ready fuel system, with a built in sump to prevent fuel starvation;

https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=84/category_id=61/mode=prod/prd84.htm

https://aeromotiveinc.com/tech-help/phantom/

I'm having a brain fade and do not recall if you were running fuel injection or a carb, but either way I would explore the possibilities of making a sump for the fuel pickup.


Yes Sir I’m running a Holley Sniper EFI, I thought about switching to a tank type pump or even putting that foam you can wad up in your hand and stuff it into the tank but that will stop my fuel float from working.
I think for now I’ll just filler up when she gets to 1/2 a tank:cool::rolleyes:

[gmwillys]

If a Willys didn't have a quirk, it would be a cheap imitation.

[5JeepsAz]

Advisory team?!? This is a genuine panel of experts, Sir!!! I mean, if mistakes made count for learning, team members past & present have aquired more knowledge than the internet

[bmorgil]

I bit the bullet and ordered a NOS wiper motor from the Wiper Man gmwillys posted. https://rebuildingtricowipers.com/ The price hurt but, there are only a few of these left.

Check out the box, an original to be sure. Wiper Man stated he "goes through them" and then ships. He sent me a perfect motor. It had me grinning that's for sure. I took out the old non running motor and installed the NOS. It works fantastic! I have to figure out how to post a video. It runs very fast at high idle and is still quite speedy at idle. It is important to note I do NOT have the vacuum assisted fuel pump. This little thing runs great off straight engine vacuum. When you floor it however, the wiper stops. It needs the vacuum assists when floored that's for sure. Like it will ever be in the rain. Thrilling little thing running its little brains out on a vehicle with no roof or doors, but by damn it has a windshield wiper.

[gmwillys]

Looks real nice!

[gmwillys]

Just in case you are still considering a truck to match LarrBeard, this would be a good start on parts.... If I had $3,000 burning a hole in my pocket, and time to go to Montana, I would sure be interested just for the spares.

http://www.ewillys.com/2020/08/13/wagons-trucks-parts-troy-mt-3000/

[LarrBeard]

It's at least a '51 - maybe as late as a '59, almost certainly a 4WD.

About the only spare on it I might want is a good driver's side door latch - and with that door hanging open ...??????

[gmwillys]

Being in Montana, there isn't a bad issue of rust since they do not use calcium chloride on the roads. I saw it posted, and thought it was worthy of throwing it out there. I'd have to add on again to the garage-ma-hall if I were to tackle an endeavor like that. I already have too much stuff stored away.

[bmorgil]

Man if you had a 40 foot semi trailer you could lay up on the back 40, and a tractor to pull it, you could haul it off to Montana and load it up with some clean steel!

[5JeepsAz]

Bmorgil... That would be a worthwhile roady!!! If they had my kind of trucks in a yard like that for 3K, I'd be restless just wondering about it. Dang! Look at all those doors man!

[gmwillys]

That's how hoarding starts. It's a good thing wagons and early CJs aren't plentiful in these parts, because that's when I stock up during a build. The M38a1 build yielded three donor bodies and one complete rolling chassis. It was a happy day when the body work was done on the project, and all the excess was loaded up and sent home with the owner. There is only so much room at the rust ranch.

[TJones]

Let’s go!!

[bmorgil]

Ya gotta admit it is with a heavy heart that you liquidate the "spare" parts accumulated during the build up.

I just knew TJ had the equipment! Montana..... ah where the COVID is not setting records.

[TJones]

Ya gotta admit it is with a heavy heart that you liquidate the "spare" parts accumulated during the build up.

I just knew TJ had the equipment! Montana..... ah where the COVID is not setting records.

Back in my Single Life years I was a guide for a outfitter in Missoula, I somewhat know my way around Montana and we could get a little Elk, Deer and Antelope hunting in while we are there.:confused::D:rolleyes:

[gmwillys]

I would love to go. Elk is mighty tasty, plus I could drive a leg or few, since I'm still legal to 80,000 lbs.

[TJones]

Troy is 3 hours NW of Missoula way up in the Kootenia National Forest, and it’s 31 HARD hours of Non Stop driving from Akron!!!
Another thing is, does he have a way to load everything??
If not we’d have to drag my Cat Skid Steer on tracks with forks along with us.
I’d love to go out again, but it may be a lot easier to find somebody that’s dead heading back to the east coast empty.
From the sounds of his location it doesn’t matter if your legal or not if you can touch the pedals and grab gears your legal in that part of Montana :rolleyes::cool:
It’s way out in the boonies!!

[gmwillys]

I might just go up there and stay. I love Montana, but never could find a job to sustain my lifestyle. It might be time to change my lifestyle?

A deadhead rig would be the cheapest route, but where is the adventure.... I've done things that made much less sense, like working a heavy equipment repossession from Minnesota to Madina Ohio and back. All on a whim.

[bmorgil]

I might just go up there and stay. I love Montana, but never could find a job to sustain my lifestyle. It might be time to change my lifestyle?

And I immediately think of pelago and his tent, stove and coffee pot, riding out the storm.

[5JeepsAz]

Bacon? Did somebody say they are cooking up bacon? We shoulda been gone this morning. All this talk and some local hoarder is probably already on the job. Hell, I once bought the rest of a yardsale just to have stuff for in cases of... I'm in fellas. And I don't even need anything for my build just now. But wait - simply imagine all the Jeep stuff you'd see in 31 hours of back roads?!?!

[bluesblooded]

Wow bmorgil, you did a fantastic job with your peeJ. It looks wonderful. I love the Emerald Green. No wonder you snatched that first place on that show.

[bmorgil]

Thanks bb! It was a life changing experience I tell ya' !

[5JeepsAz]

Famous?!? BMorgil wtg. I'm all lollygagging around and suddenly the better half finds me in the yard handing me a new mag fresh off the presses called Kaiser-Willy's Jeep such and so. Well, you are right. It was almost 80 degrees outside and mail is nice and cool in my hand along with a icy lemonade. But that's not the point. Of course I pick it up and smell the thing! It is a regular old sit down and read all about em mag-o-zine! So I do. And guess who's shiny jeep cj3a do we find? Right there on page 12, willy's. jeep. life. There she is in pictures... The BMorgil cj-3a-firstwillys resto extraordinary with forum leaders riding inside of it!!! Fantastic!!

[bmorgil]

Wow Az I haven't seen that. I cant tell you how much that picture means right now. A lot of thanks belongs to this forum and KW for that Jeep.

[5JeepsAz]

Alrighty Bmorgil... My friend you know I'm studying on how and why forum gurus live the jeep resto life, to help me figure out what the heck just happened - I basically built a jeep truck my way, say what?!? Now I'm done. What do I do next?!? Lol. So, I just finished re-reading your build thread from start to finish... PeeJ is a crafted piece of historical art. I had forgot what you started with, a frame!? Not even a tub really, and now realize you went to Toledo, got bitten by the jeep resto bug, bought that frame, sourced a tub, fought with weld demons, wiring gremlins, thermostats, oil spray, and a year (two?) later here you go riding through that same Jeepfest parade in your own rig named peeJ built by your own hands and getting highlighted on killer websites and in magazine photospresads and such. That is pure solid gold. Thanks for sharing this class build and for checking in on my build at the same time!

[bmorgil]

You are very welcome Az and the same right back at you! Az it is the same for all of us who keep pushing till we can do with it, what we intended. I wanted to have something to cruise to the ice cream shop 2 miles away and any parade or show within a stones throw, that would allow me in. The "kibitzing" and vehicles you see are what I go for. So I did what every member of this forum does and have helped me do, got started on one. I needed it to run well and look like it belonged. I wanted it to look like 1950. So that was my pursuit.

Lets look at yours, Classic Cindy! That truck is tailored to you like a Giorgio Armani. You wanted a lot from that truck to say the least, and you continue to find more that you want from it. You have achieved the exact same thing! A Classic, perfectly matched to what you want by your own process and thought.

I tell you the entire deal here the Forum, the stories,the shows, the suppliers, the parades, the cruising, the outside......

Can't miss Az!

[bmorgil]

I jumped in the truck to run and errand and, nothing. Dead battery. Well its a sunny day so I pulled the battery, cleaned it and wrapped it carefully in bags, towels and other things and set it very carefully on the floor mat in peeJ. Not really but you can bet I was careful! I fired up the motor and noticed while it was warming up there was a steady drip and getting worse by the minute!

All three hoses were bad. This was the last one I did not replace, the oil pressure gauge line. I found these https://quartertonparts.com/product/oil-pressure-gauge-lower-oil-line-braided-cotton-jacket/ they are very nice USA made. They have them all. The line was originally an inverted flare swivel on both ends. The new USA line is an inverted flare swivel on one end and pipe on the other. I had to change the 90 deg fitting in the block to pipe.

I cant believe the rash of trouble with these lines. Obviously a bad batch from somewhere that is now everywhere!

[LarrBeard]

You may (or may not) be surprised at the number of failures we've seen here on the Forum of oil lines that are probably Chinese.....

Many guys have just gone to a local hydraulic hose shop to get them made.

[Mike P]

Man bmorgil, I have been so focused on my own project that I haven’t really looked around the site too much and today I happen upon this thread! What a great job you’ve done with the peeJ! That color is something else! So pretty!

Now I am worried about my thermostat though, haha!

[LarrBeard]

OK BMorgil - what is that thermostat I never can remember the part number - the one you recommended to me for the F-134 in the truck. Undoubtedly the best thermostat ever for old Jeeps...>

[gmwillys]

Those pesky Chinesium oil lines. Quarter ton and Military is my second source for good parts, and you should be pleased with their service. Being that they are located 80 miles from the rust ranch, I tend to get my orders the next day.

[bmorgil]

Thanks Mike!

Larry, the thermostat is a Milodon 16400. I think they are getting more expensive every day.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-16400

gm, I would love to visit them. Their service is very good. I ordered the hose and didn't get it. I called them and they said there was a problem with the post office. They shipped me another then followed up with an email. The oil line is a good one. Well made USA stuff.

[LarrBeard]

The problem isn't just expense - it's availability:

"Not Available At This Time

This product cannot be ordered at this time. Future availability is unknown. We apologize for the inconvenience"

[bmorgil]

Wow you aren't kidding Larry! I did find a few small speed shops that had some, but most say sold out. There are a few things automotive I am having trouble getting right now. Some Automatic transmission parts seem to be scarce, among other stuff.

[51 CJ3]

I think there are supply shortages across the board. It took me 6 months to find a lower unit for a customer’s current production Suzuki outboard. Not that I intend to buy one but dealers could not get diesel pickups.

Shipping has gone crazy too. A couple of years ago it cost $400 to ship that lower unit. This last one was $650 for the same run. $900+ to ship an 18 foot piece of aluminum deck trim that cost $150.53 to buy.

[gmwillys]

Shipping is getting to be a hassle, and expensive for sure.

[gmwillys]

The fact you didn't get the hose doesn't surprise me in the least. For about the last week, I've been getting my neighbors mail and some of mine. It has been my morning routine, going from one mail box to another to drop off their mail.

[bmorgil]

gm, it sounds like you and Quarter Ton are using the same Post Office! No question COVID changed the way this country works, from its work ethic to its work force.

[Mike P]

I think that’s where I got my hoses? They seem to be good quality but of course I’ve only run it once one the stand!

[bmorgil]

WOW! So this is inflation. Here's my quote from April of 2019 about the cost of the Thermostat.

"I just received the new "Racing" Milodon 160 deg. Thermostat https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-16400. Wow it is definitely a higher flow Thermostat. It was $24!" (April 2019)

Three years later they are $38.95!!! (if you can find them)

[51 CJ3]

Don’t worry about the inflation. The government will print more money and increase minimum wage to counter it. Problem solved. <sarcasm>

[bmorgil]

Don’t worry about the inflation. The government will print more money and increase minimum wage to counter it. Problem solved. <sarcasm>

How true. And history continues to repeat itself Jeff! Its a game of the "lag time" between wages, prices and the cash machine.

[bmorgil]

OK it had to happen... I took peeJ out for the spring. I waited till the sun had been shining for a few days. No standing water in site. Took her out on the mowed cleaned lawn. As I was bringing it around I clearly heard the sound of water under the tires. Horror, I looked down there had to be a good 1/4 inch of coffee colored water with grass sticking up. Crap! I grabbed the sticks and got it down into 4 wheel low, 1st gear and we crawled through the swamp. You can see by the sideways pictures this is going to take a while to clean up.

[56willys]

Geez, your one step away from running through the mud pit now!!! Ateast PeeJs out and running good for another season. Even with a little mud she still looks pretty!

So your planning a big offroad excursion now? Its been dirty once, now you need to come do some rockcrawling, hahaha!!

[gmwillys]

A few smudges on PeeJ makes it look even better.... But of course, that's my opinion. I think when I get a bunch of time in a row, I'm going to attempt to aircraft polish the Heep. There will be a bunch of steps and grits and polish to get it to really pop, (or burn the retinas out of everyone in the sunshine). I am pondering if it would look right with the rough spots.

[TJones]

A couple little specs of mud will build character on PJ Bob!!!

Your in for some buffing time gm to get the Heep polished up like that but it will be stunning looking, we had a guy in our Jeep club that had a Stainless Steel tub and he polished it up and it looked like it was Chrome Plated but he said it was a nightmare to do!!!

[bmorgil]

It will be the real Delorean deal then gm! Once you polish it they say its a daily thing keeping it that way.


So your planning a big offroad excursion now? Its been dirty once, now you need to come do some rockcrawling, hahaha!!

I hear ya 56', she's been initiated. I will have to find an indoor offroad event with AstroTurf and clean rocks! Hahahah... poor little Garage Queen.

[LarrBeard]

A Composite Reply:

Bob: PeeJ just wanted to go play in the mud like old days.

On Sunday we took Ham's '48 out for a show. Earlier in the morning it was raining pretty hard and I told Becky we might not go. Her reply was that it was supposed to stop raining before noon, why not go. I mansplained to her that even if it wasn't raining, that if the roads were wet the places under the fenders and the underside got wet and muddy and those were the hardest to get cleaned. But - things dried out OK and we went.

GMWillys: A number of years ago I was waiting on an airplane somewhere and this I heard this rumble even up in the waiting area. I went over to the window and there was the rattiest P-47 imaginable. The aluminum was dull and you could see just about every frame and brace in the fuselage and wing structures where the skin had dimpled in. The Heep might look a little like that once you polished it up - a lot of experience showing.

[56willys]

See, the difference between PeeJ and Flossy, is that Flossy and I aim towards the dirty areas. Back before I had the crazy idea to tear it apart, so it still ran. If there was a soft muddy spot in the yard, it steered right for it. And did we stop to put it in 4 wheel? No! one wheel drive makes it more exciting, and easier to make roster tails, splashing mud all over my passengers in their easter best. In the words of Clark Griswald, "it's all part of the experience".

Gm, I think being polished would look extremely cool, however keeping it clean and shiny would be a chore, but a worthy chore. Kind of like I was talking to a gentlemen who took the original magnesium wheels off all is funny cars and replaced with aluminum wheels, since magnesium took too much to keep shiny. Since it tarnished very easily.

[gmwillys]

That's why I'm on the fence about the time to polish. Since I pressure washed the mud off of the Heep last fall, she's not looking too hot.
I did get a call from the starter guy, and he said my stuff is ready to be picked up. $70 bucks for both the starter and generator to get worked up. I couldn't buy the piece parts for that, let alone the labor he put into it.

[bmorgil]

Wow your electric guy is one of a kind gm. An honorable repair shop. That is a great price. I think we are down to one electrical component repair shop around here for 50 miles. It seems like all you can find now are the re-manufacturers from foreign countries.

[gmwillys]

I stopped by a week ago and talked with him a while. He's trying to retire, but people drop stuff off to him daily. He doesn't answer the phone, and doesn't have voicemail or an answering machine, so eventually I'll get my stuff picked up before the June Jeep run.

I was looking through ePay, and came across this stainless 2A.... Yep, that would burn the eyes on a sunny day.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285841919323?itmmeta=01HWYNQHM4Z6QQHHHKFX653ES1&hash=item428d818d5b:g:v08AAOSw4Dlk5WOO

[bmorgil]

Yikes! I think I like the patina a bunch more. The polished stainless looks like chrome. It is unique. The Heep has a much better personality. I like the bare carbon steel.

[test1328]

Well, I guess you wouldn't have to worry about the body rusting! But, yeah, not sure I'd want to drive that if the sun was out.

[bmorgil]

I can still clearly remember the Delorean sales. Many owners ended up painting them. All you needed was for someone to put a sweaty hand on it and, out comes the buffer. They were very difficult to keep looking nice.

[LarrBeard]

".. ePay, and came across this stainless 2A... "

Yeah. 38 miles...

[gmwillys]

Yep, you all helped to talk me out of it.... Like I need more projects to keep up with and taking time from finishing others.

[bmorgil]

peeJ won the Jeep Fest Best in Show!

Wow the Toledo Jeep fest gets bigger every year official numbers aren't in yet but, 75,000 plus people. 1000++ Jeeps in the show. I could not believe it when they called out peeJ as the winner! She had her Kaiser Willys flag flying high on the mast. That Jeep owes a lot to this Forum.

I got a ride with Gerry Huber around the place and a personal prize presentation to boot! Ya gotta love the "Fest". Right in Toledo, the birth place of the Jeep.

[LarrBeard]

Hot Damn!

WOOH ----- HOOH!

Fantastic for the Little Green Jeep and the Leprechaun that drives it!

Did you get to ride around with the pretty little blonde girl as well as Jerry?

[bmorgil]

Hahaha! We actually bumped into a blond lady while Gerry was wheeling me around in the golf cart. He said "excuse me, do you mind if I stop and hug this pretty lady?". Of course I said "by all means". Gerry said he wants peeJ inside next year. She is graduating to Ham's 48' status at the Fest!

There were not as many pre 1960's Willys there this year. A lot of people looking at it discussing how things used to be.

p.s. Your just jealous cause I am at least an inch taller than you...

[TJones]

Great Job Bob!!!!
Peej right up front again!!!!

[gmwillys]

I was watching the Facebook live stream of the parade, and there was PeeJ and Bmorgil in their glory. Congratulations on the best in show! Well deserved in my opinion! It would be a great honor for PeeJ to be on display in the convention hall like Ham's was, that would be fantastic.

[56willys]

Awesome!! Congratulations dude, peej looks like a super sweet jeep that definitely deserves this honor!

In the pic of Hams 48 you can see a blue cj6 with a hardtop and white doors in the background, I'm personal friends with its owner.

[gmwillys]

There was a CJ6 in the background? Oh yeah, there is one now that I looked again. I guess I didn't look past the beauty of Ham's 48....

[bmorgil]

Thanks guy's! It was a great show. They really go out of there way to make it a "Fan and Family" event. I will get some pictures next year. I will take the offer and put peeJ inside. I will have a lot more free time to take pic's and enjoy the show.

[Mike P]

That’s awesome man! Congrats!!!