1970 Jeep J-200

[Trailabite]

I just purchased this beast a few weeks ago. I'll probably get flamed, but my plans are to build this into a slightly street-able rock crawler. I was searching the internet looking for parts and came across this forum and figured I would drop in.

Here's a couple pic's:

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[LarrBeard]

No flames here! Ask questions, we give free advice, worth every cent you'll pay for it.

[Trailabite]

I won't have any questions about the truck I don't think, given that it's not going to be a restoration project. Somebody has already changed the running gear. Front axle is a D60 and the rear is a D70HD, th350 tranny with a chevy np205 transfer case). They did reuse the leaf springs though but, I plan on removing the those and installing a 4 link set up on the front and rear. One of the inner fender wells is rusted out and needs to be replaced and the front windshield is cracked and needs to be replaced. The floor pans are rusted out as well and have been replaced with old license plates and stop signs lol. I was able to find floor replacement pans online for these. But, I am struggling with finding the inner fender well and a windshield, in case anyone reading this might have one.

*EDIT* So I do have a question! It looks the Jeep Wagoneer's and the J series truck share the same parts as it pertains to the front of each from like '63 up into the '70's. Can someone confirm this?

[Trailabite]

Seeing what it will look like with 42's underneath it.

Front:
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Rear:
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[gmwillys]

Welcome Trailabite!
Jeeps were meant to be custom from the very beginning. Your vision for the perfect ride sounds like a winner to me. We like original examples, but customs are equally impressive.

[Trailabite]

I did a little work to the beast. Took out the motor/tranny and sold them. Started removing some of the rusted out floor boards and now I don't much left lol.

In one of the pic's you can see a support bracket for the rear cab mounts. Does anyone know where I can find an aftermarket one? I have new floor pans coming, but I'm going to need that bracket.

The old floor board:
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[gmwillys]

In a quick search, I didn't see anything outside of the floor pans. You might be better off salvaging what is good, and fab up the remainder. It isn't too hard if you have the basic shape. It doesn't look terrible.

[5JeepsAz]

Just curious what you think about doing rat rod approach..? Any metal piece that fits for the floor? Diamond plate bent to fit? I think in your range of years you should be able to locate a wagoneer or j series floor. Very great nose on your build!

[Trailabite]

Just curious what you think about doing rat rod approach..? Any metal piece that fits for the floor? Diamond plate bent to fit? I think in your range of years you should be able to locate a wagoneer or j series floor. Very great nose on your build!

I found/ordered replacement floor pans on line. Although, diamond plate would have been plenty strong enough.

[5JeepsAz]

Okay so what's the thought on getting a donor?

[Trailabite]

Okay so what's the thought on getting a donor?

Well, for one, I live in a subdivision with a smaller 2 car garage, so I don't have enough room to be dragging something else home. The meat braces under the old floor pans seem to be fairly solid. I took a hammer and smacked them a few times and they sounded solid. With new floor pans the floor should be sound. I think I can make a new cab support using a some C channel, we'll see. Mainly I just want to make sure there are no holes in the floor to prevent heat and fumes from coming in. I plan on installing a roll cage in the cab and will mount my seats and harness's to that instead of the cab floor for safety.

[gmwillys]

With the cab mounts/supports being fairly solid, strip them down and apply several coats of a good rust inhibiting primer, then follow up with a liberal application of some heavy frame paint to the inside of the supports. Use a weld through primer on the edges to where you will spot weld the floor pans on, and you'll be golden. I ran across some hat channel for one project that matched the original perfectly, but can not recall where. It came in 8' lengths, and was a darned sight cheaper than the preformed kit. But I did spend a lot of time bending and forming to match the original. Half a dozen to one, six to the other really. I suppose I liked the challenge.

[Trailabite]

Thanks for the tip gmwillys. I received the new floor pans yesterday and I laid them in the truck to see how they would fit and they seem to be a little short. I guess it's a good thing that I saved one of the road closed signs from the old floor lol.

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[gmwillys]

I would splice in a piece of sheet metal the same gage. Butt weld it in to the other replacement pieces. You'll be happier with it. Most road signs are aluminum, so that would cause you issues down the road with dissimilar metals.

[Trailabite]

I didn't think about the sign being aluminum.

[gmwillys]

It would work as a patch, you can undercoat the mess out of it, but the issue is using screws or pop rivets through the aluminum. The molecular make up of the two different metals will cause corrosion to amplify. The screws will seize in place, and a steel pop rivet will fail in time. An aluminum rivet will corrode the steel.

[Trailabite]

I have searched for days and cannot find anything on this. There is a crack that goes all the way around the rear window. I can't tell if this an actual crack, is it 2 separate pieces or did someone cut this for some reason? Can I stitch weld this? Or does it need a dab of seam sealer on the inside?

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In this pic you can see that someone filled it in with some body filler.

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[Trailabite]

@ADMIN - it seems that my thread is going beyond being an introduction. Can it be moved over to the proper place or would it be easier if I just start another thread somewhere else (restoration)? Although, it's more of a off build than a restoration.

[bmorgil]

@ADMIN - it seems that my thread is going beyond being an introduction. Can it be moved over to the proper place or would it be easier if I just start another thread somewhere else (restoration)? Although, it's more of a off build than a restoration.

Drop an email to amy@kaiserwillys.com She is awesome. She will move the thread for you.

[Trailabite]

Drop an email to amy@kaiserwillys.com She is awesome. She will move the thread for you.

Done. Thanks

[Trailabite]

I finally bought some 18 gauge sheet metal and started to put the floor back together again. I discovered that I suck at welding thin sheet metal lol. But, after a couple of tries I was able to stick it. I had to cut the sheet metal and form it into an angle and weld it to the back section of the cab. I needed something to attach the new floor pans to to keep that back panel in place. I'm glad those welds will get covered up lol.

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[gmwillys]

Practice, practice, practice. I use a Miller 175 110 volt MIG, and run .035 solid wire, and 75/25 Argon gas. The .035 wire does real well in filling holes and controlling heat. The biggest thing to work on is heat control by focusing most of the puddle on the strongest metal. Even the rusty original metal takes heat better then the new metal that the floor pieces are made of. Modern metal just doesn't weld as nice as the original. The next thing to work on in your wire speed and amperage rates. I will burn at a higher amperage, then adjust my wire speed to get the desired puddle. From what I can see, you did fairly well. You can take a body hammer and dolly and flatten out any raised weld. This will also help to keep the weld strength. Often times one will be too eager to grind down a weld to make it pretty, but will remove too much material and make it weak. If you are planning to butt weld the new metal with the existing floor, remember to run and gun. Spot weld in a pattern that will reduce the amount of heat drawn in one spot for too long. This will cause your metal to ripple and pull. Included is a picture of when I was not following my own advice and was trying to hurry too much. The picture is of a passenger floor board replacement to where I didn't move enough and the corner had pulled upward into the tool box. To fix it, I had to heat the section with a torch and pound it back out flat...from inside of the tool box.

[Trailabite]

Thanks gmwillys. I have a Hobart 210. I have it set for 110v, using 75/25 gas also but .023 wire.

[Trailabite]

I finally started installing the new floor. What a pain lol.

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[LarrBeard]

It's looking good. A dot here, a dot there and it doesn't warp.

Yeah, its a PITA, but its amazing how much more comforable the truck will be with no wind blowing through the floor boards!

[Trailabite]

I'm amazed at how good I am at burning holes through the sheet metal!

[gmwillys]

It is a bit of an acquired talent. Coming from a heavy equipment background, it took me a bit to figure out how not to make a panel look like the ocean.

[Trailabite]

Floor board is finally complete. I just need to add a few gallons of seam sealer and paint.

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[gmwillys]

Looking good!

[bmorgil]

Wow that is some serious work!

[Trailabite]

So I tried welding this up and it really didn't work very well. I was able to get a few spots (about 8 to 10 spot with 3 to 4 inch welds) welded and I'm hoping that seam sealer will fill in the gap. I had my welder set on the lowest setting and as soon as the wire would hit the metal it would burn a hole through it. The metal on this panel is very thin for some reason. I took a flap disc to clean off a spot and it burned a hole thru the metal as well. If it doesn't hold I guess I could weld on a piece of sheet metal about a 1/2" wide all the way around.

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[gmwillys]

I would cut out the thin strip and weld in the 1/2". Then you'll have a good, solid repair.

[Trailabite]

I would cut out the thin strip and weld in the 1/2". Then you'll have a good, solid repair.

This would take some skills that I don't have but, it is probably what should be done.........This is supposed to be an off road rock crawler build, not a restoration lol........dang it, now I feel like this is what I need to go ahead and do.......more pics to follow!

[gmwillys]

Bring it on over if you ever go rock crawling on the mountain in Jacksonville, AL. Just an idea if you don't want to tackle it.

[Trailabite]

Bring it on over if you ever go rock crawling on the mountain in Jacksonville, AL. Just an idea if you don't want to tackle it.

If what I've done already, breaks then I will cut out a section and weld in new metal. I took a hammer and smacked around on the welds that I did and nothing came apart. A hammer test is not the same as being out in the woods or on a pile of rock all twisted up and everything flexed out but.....we'll see. I will be installing a roll cage tied to the frame as well and that should prevent the frame and body from twisting and flexing as it normally would.

[bmorgil]

A roll cage to the frame gets the Job done. Attached is a pic of the 2019 parade chase vehicle LarrBeard and I had just in case! A champion Rock Crawler.

[gmwillys]

On the weekends, folks come from far and wide to run at Coccoloco Mountain OVR park. There are insanely expensive custom buggies to the low buck Bronco II with the winders knocked out.

[Trailabite]

A roll cage to the frame gets the Job done. Attached is a pic of the 2019 parade chase vehicle LarrBeard and I had just in case! A champion Rock Crawler.

Nice jeep.

I sold this one last year. 2005 TJ. Pic is from one of our trips out in Moab. We bought this one new off the lot and through the years my wife became very attached to it lol. She still gives me crap for selling it.

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This is the jeep I have now.

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[Trailabite]

On the weekends, folks come from far and wide to run at Coccoloco Mountain OVR park. There are insanely expensive custom buggies to the low buck Bronco II with the winders knocked out.

I'm with a club called Georgia Trail Riders and we do rides once a month. We hit Choccolocco in January and then again in September.

[gmwillys]

I'm located about three miles from the gate. We'll have to get together for a drink at the camp.

[bmorgil]

I'm located about three miles from the gate. We'll have to get together for a drink at the camp.

I feel the need to put the crawler on the trailer and bring it down!

[gmwillys]

Come on ahead. Now if we can get Pelago to bring a few rifles with him, the county Sheriff's shooting range is across the road. He can school us on precision marksmanship.

[Trailabite]

So, we will be at Chocco on Jan 11th. Some of our club members will be camping but, I will have my wife and her 92 yr old gpa so we will be staying at the hotel motel. Maybe we can get together for that beer.

[gmwillys]

Sounds like a plan.

[Trailabite]

So, we will be at Chocco on Jan 11th. Some of our club members will be camping but, I will have my wife and her 92 yr old gpa so we will be staying at the hotel motel. Maybe we can get together for that beer.

Our ride got rained out and rescheduled for the weekend of Feb 1.

[Trailabite]

Well, it's been a few weeks, I finally found time to get back in the garage. The old cab support was rusted out beyond repair and I was figuring that since I'm going to mount my seats to the roll cage that I could get by without the support. The more I thought about the more it bugged and so I broke down and rebuilt it. I was able to re-use the center section that goes over the tranny cowl and extended the ends using a 3" C channel. It's a lot more heavy duty than the original piece but, that what I had lol. I still need to finish welding the ends and I will hit a few spots welding it to the floors but, for the most part it's done. I need to sand it down, prime and paint.

Next - getting ready to order the parts required to build my 203/205 doubler.

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[gmwillys]

I figured your ride was washed out. It came a pretty good storm that Saturday afternoon.

Extra beef doesn't hurt a thing. Looks good! 203/205 doubler should get you up and over nearly any obstacle.

[Trailabite]

A little more weekend work.

Broke the front windshield
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Installed some seam sealer. Used the tube and gun, should have bought the qt can and used the acid paint brush.
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Put the wife to work ripping out all of the old wiring.
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Found a broken exhaust manifold bolt. Luckily, it came right out with an easy out.
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[gmwillys]

That's terrible luck on the windshield, but you made up for it on the win column. The real feat was getting the Misses up under the dash to pull wires. I don't see that ever happening at the rust ranch.

[bmorgil]

Great luck on the busted bolt! When the easy out works it just makes you smile.

gmwillys,you crack me up! "Rust Ranch"! I am going to get a sign made up for the front gate!

We need to introduce you to the way the state treats precious, expensive steel cars in the "Rust Belt". They cover the road with HEAVY concentrations of Sodium Chloride (salt). We have liquid forms that will vaporize in the air so it permeates every aspect of you ride, if you are lucky enough to get trapped behind the salt truck. We have spreaders on semi's that can throw salt across 3 lanes and pelt you from afar. We use mountains of it. In the spring everything has a nice white dust on it. Your blood pressure increases just by breathing the dust. Then we have auto washes that wash all that salt off with recycled salty water. It is an awesome corrosion test.

[Trailabite]

That's terrible luck on the windshield, but you made up for it on the win column. The real feat was getting the Misses up under the dash to pull wires. I don't see that ever happening at the rust ranch.

Well, she actually enjoys rock crawling and she think's I'm taking way to long to build this thing. We were working on it the other day and I said well its time to stop (4:30 in the afternoon), she asked why. I said, well, I need to order some parts to finish this up and she was like, if you knew you needed these why aren't they here? Of course, she still thinks all of these parts only cost $50 from eBay!

[gmwillys]

You have yourself a keeper! I managed to marry a girlie girl who might break a nail. She likes to ride with on going to town, and doesn't mind the dust being kicked up off the floor of the heep that deposits directly into your eye. I shouldn't complain, I like my garage of solitude the way it is.

[Trailabite]

It's slow going for the moment. Still trying to figure out my game plan, it keeps changing. I was planning on installing the engine and tranny over the weekend buuuuut, instead I removed the bed and now making plans on shortening the wheelbase from 120" down to 108". Also, I have had several people tell me that the bed is in decent shape and that I should try and sell it instead of cutting it up. Does anyone have any idea what kind of money it could be worth? I listed it on this forum for $500 but I really don't have a clue as to what it might or might not be worth.

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[gmwillys]

If I were in the market for a bed, I would gladly pay around $500 for a bed that isn't destroyed. The floor looks to be solid and not beat to death, so that is a good starting point. The fenders could use a little love, along with the skirts, but very minor work to bring it up to par. A M416 trailer bed would not be quite wide enough in stock form, but section in a piece in the middle, and you would be golden. The length can be cut down to fit as well. You'll see them for sale all over, for varying prices.

[Trailabite]

So, has anyone here ever cut the frame in half? I'm wondering about the cut itself. It seems that most people just make a vertical cut but, then you have the ones that say to cut a z pattern, claiming that it provides more welding area.

[bmorgil]

I have seen it done a few ways. I am betting GM has good experience here. In general it is the plate welded on the inside of the channels side, that makes it strong. Take a peak under a Stretch Limo and you will get a good idea.

[gmwillys]

I choose to section a frame by cutting an angle for more surface area. I put fish plates on the inside of the frame to disguise a frame repair on my own rigs, but on a heavy duty repair I would put one on the outside as well. Just make one longer then the other to prevent too much heat in one location. Make the outside fish plate 12" and the inside 16" in length, as an example.

On a rock crawler or heavy truck you can go a couple of different ways. You can shorten the frame by moving the axle forward and building your mounts off of the original frame. Then cut the excess off of the rear leaving no weak point in the middle of the frame. Heavy truck frames are simple because your frame rails are straight. Your Jeep frame is a different because it rises at the front leaf mount to clear the rear end housing. This would help to lift the rig by a couple of inches from the front spring hanger being shifted forward, but your pinion angle would then have to be adjusted to prevent vibration in the drive line.

The pictures are not real great examples of some frame projects, and I really wish I would have snapped some photos of re-stubbing the 2A frame from the crossmember forward. Just remember angle finders and plumb bobs are your best friends when cutting frames, and gluing them back together.

[bmorgil]

Nice work there GM!

I don't understand how you end up doing all the frame repair you do. Here in the "Rust Belt" of the USA, we use a tremendous amount of salt on the roads. It rots the cars and frames fairly quick. But I see equally impressive metal corrosion occurring in "Bama at the "GM Ranch". I wonder what is rusting them in your parts of the country? We used to travel down to the Carolina's to pick up rust free cars in the old days. Maybe time has just taken them all!

[gmwillys]

All of my personal stuff, and the M38A1 came from Illinois, so they were salt victims. The Wrangler was a local item, but a design flaw to the frame is that there are no drains at the bottom. Mud enters the tow hook cuts at the sides of the frame and settles at the bottom. Over time they just get soft and disappear.

If I had a lot of spare time and a semi, I would buy up all the vintage trucks I could muster and sell them up North, but now the prices have gone through the roof.

[bmorgil]

Ahhh the design flaw!

You find em GM and send em up! You bet the price is getting high everywhere for UN-rusted complete old cars and trucks up here. Early Jeeps and Willys Trucks are making a strong showing. My '77 Chevy Square Body was put on a truck with a few other rust free vehicles from Arizona. I paid $1000 for it in 1998 and $600 to ship it back. It was completely and still is rust free. It ran and was fairly mechanically sound, with a lot of miles on it and a flat cam!

[gmwillys]

That's what you find here. Run into the ground mechanically, but rust free. What would scare most northern buyers is the fact that there were no titles issued on '80 and newer. Before moving here, I was pretty good buds with some of the guys at French Lake Auto Salvage. They had a driver that would go to Arizona twice a month to bring back clean vehicles for resale.

[Trailabite]

That didn't take very long. I have a guy coming over to Saturday to pick up the bed. Oh, and I sold my SBC 350 and bought a 6.0 LQ9 to drop in.

[Trailabite]

I ended up buying a rebuilt 4l65e to go with the 6.0 and got both installed over the weekend. I still need to build/modify a transmission mount bracket but, it is sitting in place. I'm hoping to get 203/205 doubler put together and install it next weekend. Once I get doubler installed I'll be getting it ready to shorten the frame.

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[bmorgil]

That fit in there nicely. What computer are you using to run the LQ9?

[pelago]

am actually looking for project Number 2........... love a old pickemup, and would love a flathead V8

oh yeah,
and you are a booger

[Trailabite]

That fit in there nicely. What computer are you using to run the LQ9?

Since I'm keeping the engine stock for now I'm just planning to having the OEM computer re-flashed.

[gmwillys]

What is the going rate for the re-flash? I like the low end grunt of the 6.0 gasser, and have toyed with the idea of dropping one in the wagon.

[bmorgil]

If you can find someone to tune it for you using HP Tuners, its the way to go on the Gen 3 Computer system. They can then give you the tune on a flash drive. If you were near I could tune it for you with HPTuners software.

[Trailabite]

What is the going rate for the re-flash? I like the low end grunt of the 6.0 gasser, and have toyed with the idea of dropping one in the wagon.

Just for a flash its around $125 to $150 but, you also need to trim down the wiring harness and that's around $300. I'm thinking about trimming the harness myself just so that I can say that I did it lol. If I screw it up I can always buy a new one.


If you can find someone to tune it for you using HP Tuners, its the way to go on the Gen 3 Computer system. They can then give you the tune on a flash drive. If you were near I could tune it for you with HPTuners software.

That's not a bad idea.

[Trailabite]

Been working on the 203/205 doubler. It's been a total blast playing with all of the loose needle bearings.

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[Trailabite]

More doubler pics

Grinding the the rear 205 shift rail. This will let me put it in front wheel drive only.
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The doubler put together
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Someone installed a bolt that was too long and it hit the gears inside breaking off a piece and bending it. There was 2 like this and both bolt holes stripped out when I removed them. I plan to install a couple of helicoils for the repair.
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After I put everything together I realized the threaded portion of the shifter shaft was broken off.I think I can drill and tap and install a threaded stud for the fix.
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[bmorgil]

Looking good! Love those loose rollers. They are substantially stronger however. I'll take loose rollers over caged rollers any day. The only advantage to the cage is the speed of assembly.

[gmwillys]

Looking good!

[LarrBeard]

OK, is a doubler a special designation for an overdrive - maybe a 50% OD?

[gmwillys]

Go the other direction, or underdrive. The doubler will make a 2:1 to a 4:1, making the vehicle idle straight up and over an obstacle.

[Trailabite]

Go the other direction, or underdrive. The doubler will make a 2:1 to a 4:1, making the vehicle idle straight up and over an obstacle.

At least, that's the plan lol. I will also have the capability of just locking in the front axle and leaving the rear axle in neutral, which can help when you get in a bind and just need to move the front end over a few inches.

[5JeepsAz]

This build getting better and better! Learned about a doubler. Sounds like something good. Does it have a lever, using the clutch?

[Trailabite]

This build getting better and better! Learned about a doubler. Sounds like something good. Does it have a lever, using the clutch?

The doubler is built by using two separate transfer cases. An NP205 and the front half of an NP203. The NP205 has the normal 2h/4h to 2lo/4lo, so that uses two shifters, one for the front axle and one for the rear axle and then the NP203 bolts to the front of the NP205 and is only used for an extra hi/lo gear, which is what reduces the gearing from 2:1 to 4:1, and this get's one shifter as well. So, three shifters in all. No clutches involved.

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[5JeepsAz]

Awesome. New bucket list item. Drive one of those things in your picture there. Hope you keep posting when that thing is installed. I have always wondered what the picture below did, now I have a better idea. Thanks!

[bmorgil]

That thing should crawl straight up a wall!

[Trailabite]

The frame is 10" shorter now. I still need to add a fish plate to the back side but I ran out of steel.

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[5JeepsAz]

Huge progress.

[Trailabite]

Well, I took a few steps backwards over the weekend. After I installed the transfer case it hung down past the frame about 2". So I decided to take it back out and re-clock the 205 portion up. Now nothing hangs down past the frame, but it did infringe on my floor pan space. I'm ok with that as the ground clearance is more important.

Also, a few days a go I manually turned the engine over to install the torque convert bolt and I noticed brown water came out of the exhaust. So I pulled the header and spark plugs out on that side and spun the engine using the starter and shot brown water across my garage lol. So, after I got the transfer case reinstalled I decided to pull the head off to take a look. It all cleaned up ok so I just replaced the head gasket and put it back together.

I don't why the first 3 pictures flipped........

Here you can see it hanging down:
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Now it's gone:
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Floor modification required:
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Water squirt:
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Inside:
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[LarrBeard]

I think an oil change is in order as well!

[5JeepsAz]

How we doin on this thing? Hope you didn't drag it off behind the shed...

[Trailabite]

How we doin on this thing? Hope you didn't drag it off behind the shed...

Not yet lol. Taking a step back and

[Trailabite]

Not yet lol. Taking a step back and

I just realized that half of my comment is missing. I wasn't even drinking lol.

What I was saying is that I'm taking a step back to re-measure and re-think things. I have been playing with a 4 link calculator trying to figure out where all of the control arms are going to land. Rotating the transfer case so high changed the location of my front drive shaft a little.

[gmwillys]

A step back never hurts, just don't be like me and step all around it, and not pick up a tool. Now that I have the driver's side floor board primed, so it is a matter of buckling down and start trimming.
I can't wait to see your project over here on the mountain.

[5JeepsAz]

Made perfect sense. The way I understood, you didn't throw it out yet, check back later. Lol. I was just thinking today how fortunate I was to want, and to procure, a basically original truck. The geometry or factors on the simplest change are immediately complex, meaning unpredictable. Noodling the problem is good. I've been binging Jay Leno garage. Funny, he has the same exact issues we all do. His might cost more, but he was driving his Fairlane or whatever and it was heating up. Because he reduced the filters. Draw in hot air. Thing stalls on him at a stop. So he had the guy fab an intake cooler. Why did he reduce the filter size? To keep the hood normal looking. Another guy is a rock crawler and built himself a, I dunno, tarantulas jeep that extends on all extremities hydraulically so he can conquer some desert canyon body ever went up before. You are in good company. Can't wait to see the progress

[Trailabite]

Made perfect sense. The way I understood, you didn't throw it out yet, check back later. Lol. I was just thinking today how fortunate I was to want, and to procure, a basically original truck. The geometry or factors on the simplest change are immediately complex, meaning unpredictable. Noodling the problem is good. I've been binging Jay Leno garage. Funny, he has the same exact issues we all do. His might cost more, but he was driving his Fairlane or whatever and it was heating up. Because he reduced the filters. Draw in hot air. Thing stalls on him at a stop. So he had the guy fab an intake cooler. Why did he reduce the filter size? To keep the hood normal looking. Another guy is a rock crawler and built himself a, I dunno, tarantulas jeep that extends on all extremities hydraulically so he can conquer some desert canyon body ever went up before. You are in good company. Can't wait to see the progress

lol, well......I also have a 2016 JKU (4 door jeep) and I keep looking at this LS engine and one ton axles for the jeep truck and wonder what they would like sitting in the JK instead. It doesn't hurt to wonder. Back to the truck - this doubler could be the death of me. The more I look at it the more I think I need to clock it back down to about half way to where it is now. I have two potential issues. One is, it's probably going to interfere with the passenger seat and the other is, I think it's going to cause a drive line problem (binding issue) with my front drive shaft when the axle droops. The problem with clocking it back down is one of the shifting arms sits right where the transfer case vent is. So I would have to plug it and drill-and-tap a new spot for the vent, which is not the end of the of the world. If I can figure out how to make the passenger seat fit around it I might be able to use a 2 piece drive shaft for the front. No matter what its going to be more work than planned. If it wasn't so darn heavy it wouldn't be huge issue lol.

[5JeepsAz]

Route 3. The one you choose when the first two wont do! That usually means some blast of creativity. Yeah, but if I just put this over here... Lol. Keep truckin

[Trailabite]

Route 3. The one you choose when the first two wont do! That usually means some blast of creativity. Yeah, but if I just put this over here... Lol. Keep truckin

That's a fact lol. For now I have decided to leave it where it sits and work around it. For rock crawling it is better to have it high and out of the way.

[5JeepsAz]

So only solve it if it needs to be solved. That's good thinking.

[Trailabite]

Not much progress these past few weeks. The day before the 4th lightning struck close to my house and blew up a bunch of stuff and then last week we had a heck of a storm that caused some wind and hail damage. Allstate is really loving me at the moment lol. We did manage to go out and do some wheeling this past weekend. Went to Wind Rock OHV park up in TN.

https://youtu.be/af6kDRxj3CY

[LarrBeard]

We did manage to go out and do some wheeling this past weekend. Went to Wind Rock OHV park up in TN.

When you're stuck between a rock and a hard place - get on the gas and just blast out ...

[5JeepsAz]

We did manage to go out and do some wheeling this past weekend

Yes. Yes you did.

You know you married a Jeep girl when the last thing you hesr before you hit the gas is "go ahead, just break it honey"

[bmorgil]

Love the video! Nice job on the throttle, way to slingshot and run!

[gmwillys]

When in doubt, hit the gas! Great job!

[Trailabite]

Unfortunately, the next obstacle wasn't so friendly lol. This was a pretty nasty trail, one that I really should not have been on but..... I don't have any pictures of the attempt but, I hit the rocks hard enough that I think the computer thought it was in an accident. The engine light came on, it wouldn't shift into gear and would die. I would let it sit for about a minute and it would start back up and after moving the shifter a few times it go into gear and about after 10 feet it would shut down again. Took a little while to get out of the trail. Once I got it back on level ground and let sit for about 15 minutes it ran fine and I was able to make the 4 hour drive home the next day.

This particular obstacle caught both sides of my jeep at the same place and at the same time. Basically it bent my sliders up into my rocker panel and has pushed the rear of both front doors up just a little. Just enough so that they pop open when you push the button to open them. I'm hoping that I can hammer the rocker panel down enough to relives the stress on the doors and then I i'll put some new armor over the rocker panels to hide and protect what's left lol.

Here you can see how high it pushed up:

6357

6358

[bmorgil]

You are using that Jeep man! This takes me back to days with the local California 4 wheeler clubs and the Rubicon.

[gmwillys]

My car trailer also serves as a frame rack and body panel stretcher. The crease in the rocker will be the toughest part to shrink, but building heavier rock sliders would fit the bill better for the gung ho style of wheeling. Boy does it look fun!

[5JeepsAz]

I'm hoping that I can hammer the

Hahaha. Love it. My only gripe is the use of a level. Who wants to know how bent it is? You said the doors work. lol. Good man!

[gmwillys]

That level of destruction makes for good stories.

[bmorgil]

Some excellent battle scars.

[5JeepsAz]

he did seem to take it to the next level

[gmwillys]

Here is some video from Moab of some stock-ish Heeps taking on the terrain.

http://www.ewillys.com/2020/08/07/grandpa-crosses-the-golden-crack/

[5JeepsAz]

I think he could have done that at night with no spotters. His lines were just perfect

[Trailabite]

he did seem to take it to the next level

Kudos to that guy! I like a little more protection than the single roll bar though.

[Trailabite]

Small update. I ended up pulling the 203/205 doubler back out to reclock it again. It was bothering me to much to leave it the way it was. I now have the passenger area floor space back and should have a better angle for the front drive shaft and everything is still tucked up between the frame rails. Unfortunately, the 205 section is in the way of the mounting are of the support brackets that I made and now I need to redo all of that. I'm hoping to get the transmission mounting buttoned up this weekend. Next will be to start working on the rear axle and getting the 4 link done.

Clocked to high:
6440

re-clocked:
6442

Tucks up for a flat belly
6443

Not old jeep related but, I installed a hydraulic ram assist steering kit last weekend:
6444

[5JeepsAz]

That's no small update - big decisions made. Cool looking jeep

[gmwillys]

Can't wait to see it up close!

[Trailabite]

Finally finished mounting the doubler and transmission. Used the tube bender for the first time making a transmission support bracket.

6612

6613

And then I made several newbie mistakes. I cut out some nasty looking fish plates to install where I cut the frame. First mistake: I couldn't get the weld to work at all. I kept changing, wire speed, heat, angle and I should have just stopped and asked for a little guidance. But, no, I kept going. Second mistake: After I brought the frame down to bare metal I sprayed it with weldable primer (so I thought). After all said and done, I went back out to the garage this morning and looked at the can I used and it was just regular primer. Paint and mig don't mix very well. So now I'm just going to box in the frame, hide me mistake and and weld new fish plates on the outside of the frame and move on.

6614

[gmwillys]

On welding most anything, I like to run as hot as I possibly can. On my Miller, on anything that isn't Sheetmetal, I run the heat all the way up to the max. Then I adjust the wire speed to match my desired gun travel speed. In my opinion, I would remove the paint around the existing weld and burn in a hot weld to tie in the existing weld and the plate and base metal. That will save your pride. A plate to tie in the outside of the C to form a box will help the strength a great deal, along with another fish late on the outside.

[Trailabite]

Project has been put on hold for a while. We are in the process of getting our home in GA ready to sale. Since I'm working from home now my wife wants to be closer to the grand brats so, it looks like we will be moving closer to Nashville TN.

[gmwillys]

Let me know if you need any help. I'm not too far away.

[okiemark]

I was told once that the best welders have the best grinders.

[Trailabite]

I was told once that the best welders have the best grinders.

I'm a better at grinding right now lol.

[Trailabite]

Let me know if you need any help. I'm not too far away.

I think were good lol, but thanks for the offer.

[mrgrtt123]

Any recent update with regards to this build?

[Trailabite]

Any recent update with regards to this build?

No. It will most likely be a few months before I get back on this. We are still looking for a house in TN.

[5JeepsAz]

Is the market tight there? Houses in az multiple bidders, very tight market. Houses are the new thing to be hoarded up! Good luck with the search.

[Trailabite]

Is the market tight there? Houses in az multiple bidders, very tight market. Houses are the new thing to be hoarded up! Good luck with the search.

The realtor listed our house at 9pm on a Wednesday night. Within 30 minutes she sent a text for a showing at 11 am the next day. We ultimately received 6 offers on our house and within 20 hours had a sales agreement along with 2 back-up offers. All 6 offers were above our asking price. And....it's not much different up in TN. We got with a local realtor there and made a list of homes to go look at and they were going under contract as we were driving to see them. But, we got lucky and a house hit the market late Saturday afternoon and as soon as we walked in my wife (the one who must be obeyed) said this is the one I want, so we made an offer and they accepted it. I think because we made the offer later Saturday and only gave them 12 hours to accept it and there was no traffic on Sunday worked out well. We close on our house in GA on 12/10 and then close in TN on 12/11.

[gmwillys]

Good deal! Congratulations on everything working out.

[5JeepsAz]

Awesome and congratulations. Willy's Jeep people finding a way. Good to know it's possible.

[Trailabite]

Just checkin in. We are finally moved in. It didn't all work out like we had hoped but, it's over now. Originally, we were supposed to close on our house in GA on 12/10 and then close on the new house in TN the next day 12/11. Everything was going great. A few days before closing in GA we had movers come and pick up everything on 12/8. On 12/9 the attorneys let us sign our portion of the paper work so we did and headed on up to TN. The new buyers were singing their paperwork @ 3pm 12/10. I'm sitting in the motel room and my realtor calls 3:30pm and I'm think its a congrats call. Nope, she called to let me know that the buyers couldn't close on the deal. Apparently, the guy lost his job 2 days before closing and didn't tell anyone until they were sitting at the table signing papers. So I had to call my TN realtor and let her know what was going on and so we had to delay my closing on the TN property, I'm in a motel and had a moving van heading up our way. We went to bed that night wondering what we were going to do lol. Luckily, the guy I was buying the house from in TN felt sorry for us and let us go ahead and early possession of the house. I had to pay him 2 months rent with a promise to close by the end on January. We were able to get the GA under contract before that weekend was over and closed on both properties on 1/15/21.

So, not much has happened with the truck lol. I have started building new shelves in the garage, getting ready to run an outlet for the welder and plasma cutter. Also, after talking with a couple of fab guys and a shop I've been convinced that I need to either build a new frame or buy a newer frame. The concern is having a 50 year old frame holding up to all the flexing it will encounter climbing rocks. I was already question the frame myself when I installed the engine, thinking I'm gonna twist this frame just by flooring it lol. I have talked with 2 guys that build rock crawlers in their own garages and one shop and all of them are a year out or more with other projects so it looks like I may try and build a from myself.

[gmwillys]

Ain't nothing ever easy. Glad you were able to work it out the way it sorted out.

A more modern frame would be a good choice to base your truck off of. A good foundation for your build will pay off in the long run.

[bmorgil]

I like the first steps in the new home. Shelves in the garage and a welder outlet. My wife understands completely, I hope.

I am assuming you are using a roll cage in this build. When you tie the roll cage to the frame, things change dramatically in the stress the frame has to encounter, especially twisting motions. The cage when correctly installed and braced, will make that thing real strong with whatever you do for the "frame". The M.R. Garage "Franhk en steen" has a Scrambler on a stock frame with a good structural cage. I have seen it do some things in the rocks and such that would have popped the body off anything without a cage. It didn't even squeak. The cage is the secret.

[Trailabite]

I like the first steps in the new home. Shelves in the garage and a welder outlet. My wife understands completely, I hope.

I am assuming you are using a roll cage in this build. When you tie the roll cage to the frame, things change dramatically in the stress the frame has to encounter, especially twisting motions. The cage when correctly installed and braced, will make that thing real strong with whatever you do for the "frame". The M.R. Garage "Franhk en steen" has a Scrambler on a stock frame with a good structural cage. I have seen it do some things in the rocks and such that would have popped the body off anything without a cage. It didn't even squeak. The cage is the secret.

Yes, there will be a cage. So, the front of the frame is boxed in (factory) and then the back half is C channel. I though about cutting the C channel off and finish with a 2x4 tube or round tube.

[5JeepsAz]

Good to hear it all worked out. Sort of a don't envy you that night in the motel 6; admire you lots for working it all out. I went house looking yesterday and came home with an idea to change what we were looking for. The Mrs sorted that out for me right quick. I now know exactly what we want. Two things though. First, climbing rock walls in a J Truck. Well, that will require a ride along when it happens, with pictures! Second, what options do you have getting a donor truck for the frame? I'm just curious what the finances are, build your own, move your truck into an old but better frame, versus paying for a new frame. Hell of a two months man! Welcome back.

[Trailabite]

Good to hear it all worked out. Sort of a don't envy you that night in the motel 6; admire you lots for working it all out. I went house looking yesterday and came home with an idea to change what we were looking for. The Mrs sorted that out for me right quick. I now know exactly what we want. Two things though. First, climbing rock walls in a J Truck. Well, that will require a ride along when it happens, with pictures! Second, what options do you have getting a donor truck for the frame? I'm just curious what the finances are, build your own, move your truck into an old but better frame, versus paying for a new frame. Hell of a two months man! Welcome back.

lol, women have that thing called Voodoo Punani, it keeps us men folk under a spell!

As far as finances go, I could have someone (shop) build it but, I started this to build it myself and learn as a I go and after talking with a couple of shops I may have to do it myself anyways. All the shops are a year out or longer taking on any new projects. I did go ahead and price some rectangular steel, I can get the material for just under $300. By the way, price of a 2 x 4 was something like $.40/ft in December and is now around $9/ft.

[5JeepsAz]

Wow on those prices... I admire the DIY crowd. Gonna start doing a little maintenance now that mine is basically built. Never could have done the first stage. keep us posted!

[Trailabite]

I wore myself out today trying to find frame dimensions for my truck. I can find old Kaiser Willies truck frames from 1960 to 1964 and then the AMC stuff from 1970 on but, for whatever reason 1965 to 1970 seems to be a mystery. I can find 1965 - 1970 on the Military trucks, are these the same as the civilian versions? I have my old frame to measure off of but I was hoping to find something with actual dimensions for reference points if I needed them.

[5JeepsAz]

The frame did not change, at least they say so. I have some books. I'll edit this post with what I've got after chow.

[Trailabite]

The frame did not change, at least they say so. I have some books. I'll edit this post with what I've got after chow.

If you have something that would be cool. If not, no worries. Like I said, I still have the old frame to use as a template.

[5JeepsAz]

Possibly useless... Let me know!

[Trailabite]

Possibly useless... Let me know!

Perfect, thanks.

[Trailabite]

Sorry guys, I sold my project. It turns out that I have too many (5) grandkids that like to go wheeling with us and the two seater toy just isn't going to work out. I will have to try this again after they grow up and don't want to spend anytime with the grandparents lol.

[GreyWilz]

Sorry guys, I sold my project. It turns out that I have too many (5) grandkids that like to go wheeling with us and the two seater toy just isn't going to work out. I will have to try this again after they grow up and don't want to spend anytime with the grandparents lol.

Ohh that's highly understandable but bet you'll still have the itch for a Willy's soon.

[bmorgil]

Oh man! Well get a Willys pickup.

[5JeepsAz]

be cool brother. hope you made money on it and hope you stick around here and maybe get a new project to work on. this was a good build!

[LarrBeard]

Ohh that's highly understandable but bet you'll still have the itch for a Willy's soon.

I know the problem .... this is just the first load.

[GreyWilz]

I know the problem .... this is just the first load.

The kiddos seem totally love the cool rig! Reminds me of uncle's '72 C10 back in the 80's. I and my 7 cousins always trying to fit ourselves in the bed. I'm coming over to his garage next week for the installation of the suspension and set of tires from 4Wheelonline on the Silverado and hope my uncle still got some photos of use on the C10.

[Trailabite]

Now that I sold it I'm seeing all kinds of cool old jeep truck rock crawlers lol. I did sell it to another guy that's in our jeep club. He already had a 70's model J truck so this was right up his alley. I will come back and post a pic of whatever he does to it.

@LarrBeard, it's all about those grandkids!