134f total rebuild

[pelago]

When i started my m38a1 restoration project i had in fact wo engines , one with unknown use or mileage and one with reported 15k on speedometer, and was told it had in fact been rebuilt, just sat for long time. Well, long story short i used that in the running m38a1, and one of the reasons was i could see a corner of head gasket, and it was not old original style but new one. Consequently i have a spare motor. Have decided to use local machine shop, one reason for this is they helped me rebuild a little kubota diesel and it is still going strong today
Have decided to do a total rebuild

5605 5606 5607 5608 5609

received call yesterday, the head is finished, looking good, and will deliver the bare block to them also

[pelago]

Machine shop has the block, and i was able to pull up all the readings and specs for block, cyl, and crank, hoping that will NOT need new pistons, owner of shop felt crank only needed polish, but he has the specs and i can get quite a variety of rings and bearings...
The head looks great, got it wrapped in a towel with light coat of oil
56105611

[LarrBeard]

Don't forget that there is a head bolt under the carburetor throat. It's a little short one. If you leave it out, the engine will almost run, for a little while. Really bad JuJu.

[gmwillys]

Looking great! It never hurts to have a spare power plant.

[okiemark]

Looks like one cylinder got a little water in it but other than that I think you got material to work with.

[bmorgil]

Definitely a good core for a rebuild. I am pretty sure your gonna need pistons. A good fit with the rings pistons and cylinders, is the key to a great running motor, for a long duration. Your going to love that rebuild. How are you going to stop yourself from putting it in right away!?

[pelago]

definitely a good core for a rebuild. I am pretty sure your gonna need pistons. A good fit with the rings pistons and cylinders, is the key to a great running motor, for a long duration. Your going to love that rebuild. How are you going to stop yourself from putting it in right away!?

pistons?? All depends on what the micrometer says?? Put it in just dont know??

brings up a question. when do you decide to scrap pistons?? i am hoping to use 10thousan over rings

[bmorgil]

You reuse the piston (if it is in good shape) if it is within the specification of fit for the bore to cylinder, and the ring lands are not worn. In general in our f & L 134's if the bore is .009" larger than the piston, the cylinder should be increased to the next standered oversize. This would be the over bore size it takes to remove all imperfections and taper. The cylinder only wears at the very top. The first half inch is where the wear occurs (from the pressure of combustion). It is not uncommon to see no wear at the bottom of the cylinder. If you bore more than .040" you should have the block checked for thickness. From the looks of the bores it appears it has some miles on it as well as a good deal of rust in the bores. After the block is cleaned the machinist will check it over with some precision bore measuring gauges. He will let you know what you need to do. If you don't see any visible damage in the cylinders and there is just rust, I would bet .010" oversize pistons and rings, and a bore and hone will have that baby "hummin".

All said it is very good practice to re bore, hone and fit the pistons and rings perfectly. This is the place to spend your time and money if you want a really sweet running motor for a long time.

[Trailabite]

Don't forget that there is a head bolt under the carburetor throat. It's a little short one. If you leave it out, the engine will almost run, for a little while. Really bad JuJu.

Is this one of those engineering wonders? As, why in the heck did they do this? That would be one of those "Gotch ya" moments for sure lol.

[bmorgil]

For sure an F134 secret Larry passed along there!

[okiemark]

When you mount the carburetor on top of the head, things like that are apt to happen.

[pelago]

been there and done that with other motor

[pelago]

SORT OF HAVE A PLAN
Since the exh valves leave a pathway for deteriorating cast, and the fix is hardened inserts installed, here is the plan
My machine shop has the block and they are doing their magic, i will provide them with new stainless valves and inserts, also the correct main and rod bearings, and rings, they will assemble that portion of block, and the most important front and rear main seals ( HAVE DONE THIS ONLY ONCE IN 60 YEARS, SO LET THE GUYS THAT DO IT EVERY DAY DO IT)
good/bad/ whatcha think

[bmorgil]

Perfect idea Ira. They have all the new tools and what not to make it happen, with no worries for you. Further they are right there in the machine shop if something needs fixing on assembly.

[LarrBeard]

SORT OF HAVE A PLAN ( HAVE DONE THIS ONLY ONCE IN 60 YEARS, SO LET THE GUYS THAT DO IT EVERY DAY DO IT)
good/bad/ whatcha think

There are a lot of simple wrench turning jobs we can do on a motor, but other jobs need tools and skills we just don't have access to. It's money well spent to let those people do their job.

I have a request. If you would, keep track of what it costs to rebuild than motor. We have folks ask; "What does it cost to get a Jeep engine rebuilt?" It would be helpful to know what a rebuild costs if someone does the easy work themselves. (Not trying to be snoopy ...).

[pelago]

have a request. If you would, keep track of what it costs to rebuild than motor. We have folks ask; "What does it cost to get a Jeep engine rebuilt?" It would be helpful to know what a rebuild costs if someone does the easy work themselves. (Not trying to be snoopy ...).

keeping detailed journal

[LarrBeard]

FYI. You'll like this.

There are three of us who have made the trip up to Camp Perry a number of times. One guy is a seven year pancreatic cancer survivor who is about 5-inches short of a full set of innards. Another just had a colostomy reversed - he's about 8-inches short. I'm about a quart low on brains. We decided to try one more trip to National Matches. Between the three, we might make up one complete person.

The 5 inch guy and I plan to shoot the Hearst Doubles, the 8 inch guy and I will try the Sniper and I'll probably shoot the Garand and/or Springfield too.

We probably need our heads examined...

[bmorgil]

Larry make sure you let me know, We have a place a few miles from there.

[pelago]

won the garand match in 2008, got first gold medal in sniper match great place, heck even got jelo lifted in 2015 due to uncontolled bleeding

[pelago]

My expense journal for rebuild, using straight pages from acct work sheet
for example i have every single receipt for the m38a1 rebuild, including the cost of the two hulks i used WHERE THE EXTRA MOTOR AND TRANNY CAME FROM)
total cost for Magoo, $8104.00 (two hulks cost 600.00 for one and 800 for the other one trailer to get one home was 150.00
Many would say hell could have bought one for less, sure, maybe, but i wanted to do this, and do it right, and believe i did. May 2016 first wrench turned

[gmwillys]

$8,104 isn't a bad investment at all! Cheap for the amount of learning, theropy, and feeling of satisfaction from a job well done. Rest up my friend, for many a mile to be put on Magoo.

Hardened seats and stainless valves are a wise investment. Then you can run unleaded fuel with no worries.

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE} Many would say hell could have bought one for less, [/QUOTE]

No, in this case you have a bargain! Most carcasses on the Willys For Sale site are well into the $4500 to $6400 range.

Magoo was a bargain in dollars and a treasure to all of us in experience.

[bmorgil]

Very nicely done for that price!

[TJones]

Yes Sir Ira that is a Hell of a deal for what you turned out with, it is a first class rebuild.
And Like Larry said half the ones for sale at the 45-6,400 range need a lot of work to make them presentable.

[okiemark]

And lets see, 40 and hour for mechanics labor comes to....we won't go there. Yep it's not about the money, it's the satisfaction and the end product. Knowing you had a hand in all of it and knowing it's done right and having something not just everyone can have.

[pelago]

still waiting on machine shop, decided to have them assemble the crak to block and that includes the seals, but waiting still

[pelago]

www.gofastmotors.com

update, these guys exceptionally busy, went there yesterday to talk in person. Must have been 30 engine blocks scattered around shop. 4, cyl, 6cyl. V8's all kinds. Owner and i went over block, seems to have a glaze which is pretty significant on the cyl walls a potential issue, they want me to replace the pistons with .020 over size. so here is plan now,
New pistons, and rings
new wrist pins (why not, in for a penny in for a pound)
std rod bearings
std crank bearings
new (they install rear main seal)
replace all of the ex valves with stainless, owner said if valves are stainless then hardened inserts not needed)
he also told me that he could not install inserts anyway. his machine will not handle this block "TOO TALL" he needed a 60 year old grinding machine to do it
anyway that is where the rebuild is

what causes cyl walls to glaze over like they sometimes do?

[LarrBeard]

"what causes cyl walls to glaze over like they sometimes do?"

Quick answer - improper break-in. Running at too light a load and a constant speed for too long a time. On a freshly rebuilt cast iron engine like ours, hard acceleration and run at high RPM (hang in there in 2nd gear) alternating with lower RPM and load is the best way to keep walls from glazing up and getting a good break-in.

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/05/18/ask-away-jeff-smith-cylinder-wall-glazing-get-rid/

https://www.fischerpanda.com.sg/uploads/4/3/5/6/43569463/carbon_build-up_and_cylinder_glazing.pdf

[bmorgil]

Usually as the ring seal begins to decrease through normal wear, the hot combustion gases seeping past the rings super heat the oil and the ring surface. When it gets to be significant it begins to "glaze" the cylinder wall with the residue left behind. The more the bore, Piston ring lands and rings wear, the more "Blow-by" burns to the cylinder wall. It is amazing with today's modern oils, rings and machining capabilities, how little you see glazing anymore except on very high mileage engines.

[bmorgil]

Larry we hit that at the same time! I am assuming it was not an improper break in or machining. I was thinking it is a typical used engine with some miles on it.

[pelago]

This came out of a radio relay jeep, only time a load on it would have been while transmitter keyed. If not keyed load pretty minimal. Might answer question. This jeep had two xmitters and two receivers. Usually on a mountain top or high elevation and captured weaker signals and re transmitted them on a dif freq. But unless squelch broken on a receiver not transmit, long periods of basically idle

[LarrBeard]

This came out of a radio relay jeep, only time a load on it ... long periods of basically idle

I think you have it dead on there. In the one link talking about the glazing in standby generators, long periods of idle were cited as glazing contributors. I thought you might like that link because of its relation to maritime diesels...



Like most things in life, a lot of things can cause a condition and unless you are right there to see what leads up to a condition, you just about always have to say "well it could have been ..., of course then it could have been .... too."

[bmorgil]

Yes a few things lead to it. In any event it is gasses leaking past the rings that leave the "glaze" behind.

[pelago]

PROJECTS UNDER WAY. AM STILL WAITING FOR ALL PARTS BU,
Got enough pieces and parts to rebuild distributor, some were hard to find.
found that some of the stands holding up the tube that rocker arms on were sort of crappy, got pieces nd parts and rebuilt it, no scoring anywhere. clean and brigh and shiny surfaces for oil passage on all stands..
still looking for a stand that will not require a ton of modifications to mount engine on and fire it up on stand. all seem to be fine for a chevy???

6473 6474

[gmwillys]

Looking good!

Everyone that I knew that would run their engines outside of the vehicle, all built their own rigs. We use a mobile build cart for our Full Up Power Packs, (CAT 3126 / C-7, Allison Transmission, cooling tower assembly, and hydraulic system) but we had them custom made for our configuration, for a astronomical price. This enables us to run up and function test all systems within a test cell, with only minimal hook ups for the control panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaAwKvXY-WU
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-918015
https://www.amazon.com/Larin-METS-1-Mobile-Testing-Station/dp/B0007NXVB0

[pelago]

WELL, TOOK A BIT OF TIME BUT ALL REBUILD PIECES IN,
new valve train on head, had to get two new stands, detected a crack on two of them? not sure how that happened but good now, head ready to go
New pistons new rings, new bearings new ex valves/springs. Complete gasket kit including new rear main seals .
all pieces and parts at machine shop. said about a month, He must have had 30 blocks there being redone, engines everywhere, heads everywhere. Lots of folks doing the rebuild thing it seems, but it is what it is, motors are motors, sometimes they need help

[gmwillys]

With this pandemic, folks are spending more time at home working on projects it seems. Most shops are running long hours just to keep up with the demand for services.

[mrgrtt123]

I agree, most of my friends are busy modifying their cars at home. Good thing the majority of auto parts and accessories nowadays can be found on the internet.