Soon...real soon

[scoutingranch]

Welp, I'm about to start my '50 CJ3a "return to original" stock build. Can't wait but it will need to be without Harbor Freight jack stands. Warning, If you have them don't use them. Huge recall, as in you could be killed. Or worse, if you are only injured and are married.

[LarrBeard]

"Or worse, if you are only injured and are married." Yep, you will hear about it for a long time ...

By the way - beautiful work on those wheels!

And, in the middle picture - two shop essentials; Kroil to persuade just about anything and a set of cheaters so you can see what you're doing. Painters glasses help out up under the dash.

[bmorgil]

I'm in, or married for sure haaa haa! By the way an EMT friend once told me thier most frequent calls were from cars falling on people due to poor support.

I have a soft spot in my heart for the 50' CJ3A. Depending on your serial number, or the inventory on hand at Willys, you could have some 2A and even truck parts in there. It will be interesting what you find. That is a nice one you have there. I can't wait to see it go.

[scoutingranch]

I wanted in the worst way to start on the Willys last year but my FJ40 had priority. I just took a deposit on it so in a week, its off to it's new home in Tucson. Side info is, '68 FJ40 built in '67. A factory soft top, bone stock.

[okiemark]

I see you have a cooling fan for the pedals. Is that necessary in Arizona? Barefoot driving?

[LarrBeard]

"Depending on your serial number, or the inventory on hand at Willys, you could have some 2A and even truck parts in there."

That ties back to the discussion yesterday; "Willys never threw anything away except records."

[scoutingranch]

I see you have a cooling fan for the pedals. Is that necessary in Arizona? Barefoot driving?

That was funny. It's a little toasty now that's why I'm hiding over in San Diego. :cool:

[gmwillys]

Projects get shifted around as priorities come up. I know exactly where you are coming from.

I had a cousin who had a really nice FJ40 from new. It was banana yellow with a white hard top. He was an idiot, and didn't take care of anything, so it is still probable sitting in the last place it ran out of gas, rusted into the ground.

[scoutingranch]

FJ40's are incredible. So well thought out and of course, they, in the beginning copied Willys but went on to be on another level. The inline 6 is as smooth as butter and wonderful low end. Not all parts are available but most. Many parts are still made by Toyota but be prepared to pay as they are not cheap. That is why many have dropped Chebbi engines in them starting in the early sixties.
I like the inline 6 so I had no intention of changing things out.

[scoutingranch]

As for the wheels on the Willys. I buy spray paint from these folks. It is not cheap but it is the best can of spray paint I have ever used and the stuff is tough. The spray is wide so feathering is a snap. I'm thinking about doing the paint job with their product, that is just how good the paint is.

https://www.automotivetouchup.com/about-us.aspx

[scoutingranch]

The floor supports are rotted out (gee, with wood inside metal channels underneath who da' thunk) and a small area of floor has pitting. So, odered new supports, floors and tail area where a prior genius cut out holes and inserted aftermarket tail lights.
Rather than spend time patching holes I thought it prudent to install fresh steel and give that Miller a real workout stitch welding. The frame is almost perfect as in only flash/surface rust in some places but I was taken aback how clean everything was. Lucked out.

[LarrBeard]

Lucked out.

With Jeeps, as with most of life's technical endeavors, pure dern blind luck usually overcomes skill, cunning and forethought!

Carry ON! You've got a good one going!

[gmwillys]

The white oak strips that go in the hat channel supports just retain water and rots the steel from the inside out. The replacement channel should have a spacer that is tacked in where the body mounts go through, if not, add some for good measure. The reproduction MD Juan bodies have wood in the channels, at least the one I fooled with did.

You will have fun letting the Miller do all the hot work. I've had mine for over twenty years, and haven't had any trouble. I'm still using the original stinger. For my style of welding, I like using Esab..035 solid core wire, with 75/25 argon.

[bmorgil]

The MD Juan's still have wood in them. A truly bad idea. However if your looking for original or like mine, it's not allowed out in the rain, they are "Original".

We do love the "Miller" or in our garage, a Hobart 250. Same stuff here .035" mild steel 75/25 for almost everything. A large MIG is sure nice.

[scoutingranch]

yep, same here exactly. I still use my hood with flip lens. Old habits...

[bmorgil]

Cyber Weld had some great deals on Auto Darkening helmets. I couldn't resist. My boy loves it! https://store.cyberweld.com/hobart-creator-welding-helmet-770870.html

Nice heads up on China Freight. https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/consumer-advisory-harbor-freight-jack-stands

I have seen many under those jack stands.

[LarrBeard]

Nice heads up on China Freight. https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/consumer-advisory-harbor-freight-jack-stands

I have seen many under those jack stands.

"Jiaxing Golden Roc Tools Company, the original manufacturer, determined that the jack stands’ defect was due to the aging of production tooling."


I guess if you need a reason - that is as good as any. If the tooling was worn out in June of 2013, why did it take until November of 2019 to find it?

[pelago]

"Jiaxing Golden Roc Tools Company, the original manufacturer, determined that the jack stands’ defect was due to the aging of production tooling."


I guess if you need a reason - that is as good as any. If the tooling was worn out in June of 2013, why did it take until November of 2019 to find it?

that is what their attorney told them to say

[bmorgil]

that is what their attorney told them to say

There is no question, you are absolutely correct.

[gmwillys]

I've had a couple of sets of 6 ton stands from Northern Hyraulics, (Northern Tool and Equipment) for over 25 years with no issues. I'm sure they were made in Taiwan, but they have held up well. They have held up to splitting tractors, and all sorts of things they weren't intended for.

[bmorgil]

I think the failure mode is the locking mechanism fails. It seems like they have incorrect and/or insufficient engagement. They appear to collapse from extended to not extended.

I think scoutingranch is heading for some "fun with Willys Tub's"!

[okiemark]

Wonder who else they made them for. I have a set I bought from NAPA, but I'm pretty sure they were made in China.

[scoutingranch]

I spent hours drilling out spot welds just to get the tool box out of the cj3a...dang that was no picnic. I'm going to replace the floors as I don't know the condition of the floor where the wood is in the Y supports. Might as well go full Monty. Doing floors is no fun either. Have done many early Bronco floors so I sorta' know what to expect.
As soon as my new sheet metal arrives I'll do lay overs for mark out with the new metal, measurements and start cutting. The fitting takes forever. I reckon I'll need to support the tub to be good on the fits since the rusted supports are being removed. This stuff used to be fun...what happened?

[gmwillys]

The tool box is fun, no two ways about it. There are spot welds on top of spot welds, and every nook and cranny has one hidden. The floor isn't too bad once you lay out to what your new panels cover. If you replace the driver's floor then the passenger floor or vise versus, then the body will stay in square easier. If you purchase the entire floor board, then you will have to brace the cowl because the entire structure will be compromised during the removal and replacement. The fun part is the support that runs from the cowl down to the floor. The bottom usually rust out, so then you will have to add material. Do not bother trying to replace the whole thing, unless you really don't like yourself. Way too many spot welds, and lap welds to try and grind out in order to replace.

[bmorgil]

Man rust is such a curse! The good news is there really isn't much steel in the whole thing. It can only get so bad!

Here is one that had several floors put in it.

[5JeepsAz]

Nah. Nah nah. This IS fun. You've got the coolest build going. Yay for loads of sheet metal!

[bmorgil]

I here ya 5JeepsAz, I have a 1977 Chevy pickup that I bought in AZ in the late 1990's. The paint was actually worn off in several spots right down to shiny steel, from the desert sand. It came apart like a dream. Absolutely no rust. I swore I would never deal with a rusty restore again. Then I saw these Jeeps......

[scoutingranch]

I would like an opinion or more. The tool box adds structural support and lateral rigidity, "I think". What if...pause...the tool box was not there. Or, the tool box once removed is not re-installed. Yes, I know the passenger seat attaches to the box but to fab up a nice clean seat attachment is no big deal for me. My reason for asking is I like the clean look and the thought of easy access to under the seat.
Good idea or not...Please advise

[LarrBeard]

Good Question ...

I’m not a structural engineer, but over the years I did watch some good aerospace designers put together sophisticated designs that were rigid, rugged and light.

The tool box would model up as a rectangular box with an open top. The lid would add little rigidity to the structure, so we would omit it. If you inverted the tool box for an analytical look, the bottom of the box would correspond to the floorboard – or a piece of metal that you would add to fill in the hole.

That leaves the four sides of the tool box (inverted in our model) as stiffening structures hanging down under the seat. Do you think those four pieces of fairly thin sheet metal add any significant stiffening? I don’t think they do.

If you were really, really concerned, adding a square of angle iron (under the tub so it doesn’t show) around the perimeter of the piece of metal you are going to use in place of the tool box would more than compensate for any loss of stiffness or lateral rigidity. That’s typical engineer overkill.

My opinion, but I defer to someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night…

[bmorgil]

I think considering the tool box structural is pushing it. There are quite a few running around without a tool box. The tub is not a structural body. It relies for the most part on the frame for integrity.

It would be fine with or without it.

[bmorgil]

A good question for gmwillys. I am going to say I am pretty sure there were some that did not have a tool box, like the Post office vehicles.

[5JeepsAz]

A) if you leave it in place it'll always bug
B) if you remove it, you wont miss it
C) make it removable and replaceable?
D) where is this one taking you? To a show where orig matters? Climbing a waterfall, you might want it to use toolbox... Fishing tackle?
E) modernize it? Plastics are the next best thing said the 1950's...
F) thank the good Lord it ain't an oil leak

[gmwillys]

All of the Cjs and M series jeeps had a tool box on the passenger floor. The only difference between the Civilian and the Military tool box was that the Civilian had the jeep script pressed in the front panel, while the Military did not. The DJs did have a tool box as well until the introduction of the right hand drive. That part is really fuzzy as far as when that took place.

The tool box offers very little structural rigidity bennefit. Angle iron run across to utilize it to mount the seats on the passenger side. If you do want to create a "box" for putting tools or parts, I wouldn't have it open to the front, because your items will roll out onto the floorboard on a panic slowdown.

[scoutingranch]

Thanks guys. So much to learn, so little time left.

Well I'll be. Sure nuff' there is Jeep script across the front of the tool box. It was coated with a type of tar.
But, it makes me wonder why Willys would stamp script across the front of the tool box?
"Who would see it"? On the other hand, stamping sheet metal does create strength.
Tired now...

[scoutingranch]

I like using lead for body work when I can. I'm not that great at it but growing up in the 50's and 60's I was around it. Those guys were amazing.
Most are dead now...probably from lead poisoning. :|

I just welded up over twenty holes and more to go. Sooo, will do some lead work this week to get back into practice. New floors and supports should be here at the beginning of the week.

[bmorgil]

Nice, I think the lead is perfect. It is definitely "period correct"!

[LarrBeard]

Be careful what you weld up. On Magoo, the M38A1, someone may have closed up some holes needed to mount the top bows.

[gmwillys]

Lead is pretty easy to work with. It is a constant balance between heat and smoothing. I would prefer to use lead over bondo.... Never have enough mixed, or a dab too much harder.... I've tried to force myself to love the plastic, but I can't.

If you turn down the wire speed just a smidge, you can even out your spot welds to fill in the low spots where you don't even need any filler.

[scoutingranch]

I am more than pleased with the parts order. The supports are wider by .5 inch, giving the floors, wait for it...more support. That is in the parts description so it was no surprise.
Upon removing the old floors one can see the necessity for a wider U channel as the floors droop down under the weight of the seats and fat people.
The floor flat stock is cut nicely without sharp edges. The tail light back panels will make my work much easier. Job well done lads.

I didn't receive the bumper yet as the company is backed up but let face it, the bumper is a long way off from being needed.

Now the work begins, a strategy forthcoming as I will cut five times and it will still be too short.

mike

[5JeepsAz]

Well I'm glad you took care of the English problem. It's good to plan for larger than expected people. As for the build, I'm tempted not to mention the toolbox. Oops.