New Cj5 owner

[WetWillysCJ5]

Well my ambitions of wanting a classic car project came to a head finally when my brother and I acquired this 58 Cj5 from a family member. Its been living on a ranch in Texas for its entire life and lived a pretty rough life. Luckily it appears to not be in the worst of shape. The body has not a single rust hole (lots of surface rust) and is complete minus a windshield (as I dig into it I'm sure a lot is missing I can't see). My brother and I are going to be getting it running and driving again, then slowly do a "restoration". This is gonna be a big learning curve for me being 21 years old and my brother is 18 we've never taken on a big project like this. Hopefully I don't fubar it up too bad, and hopefully I won't ask too stupid of questions and hopefully I don't assume I know how to do something and then mess it up even more. here's a few pic of picking it up from the ranch and using my fathers cj5 to tow it into the garage. There will be many more questions and or updates to come as we start tearing into it! Thanks! 62436244

[okiemark]

Hi, Willys, sure looks like you got a project there. I am just finishing up on a project like that. Mine happened to be a 57 CJ5. The body was pretty good on the outside but everything in the floor and underneath was rusted out. I opted to buy a complete body after weighing the options. I have been working pretty hard on it since about September. There are several ways you can go about this depending on what your goal is. Do you want it completely gone through and pretty or do you mainly want it mechanically sound so you can just use it. I found this forum when I started mine and got a whole lot of help and advise from some pros at working on these Jeeps. One thing everyone here likes is pictures and updates on your progress. It's fun to see whatever everyone else is working on.

[WetWillysCJ5]

For the time being and considering my budget I want to get it mechanically sound. Thus far were ordering parts for a full suspension and brake rebuild, engine has 29k miles and after pulling valve cover and inspecting the engine a bit it shouldn't need a whole lot. Cosmetic restoration will come later.

[gmwillys]

Welcome WetWillysCJ5!

Looks like you have an excellent starting point. We'll be here to answer any questions you may have, no matter how big or small. There is no such thing as a stupid question around here. We are proud to have young guys taking an interest in the Willys lifestyle! We look forward to seeing more of your project!

[bmorgil]

Welcome WW! gmwillys hit it on the money there. So good to see a group of young men form to preserve something that was was passed on. It sort of gives you a look into the future. You have a real nice starting point there. From what I can see there is plenty there to start out. 29K on the motor is too good to be true! What I would have given for that motor and power-train would have been a sin! I wouldn't do much more than clean it all up. With 29K on the drive-line, change the fluids and fix any leaks. That engine drive-line is almost new. What a great situation to start a restore. Some time in the future you could remove the Tub and tidy things up, fix any issues and drop the Tub back on. No need to tear down your Engine,Transmission, Transfer Case and Axles, if it is running well, shifting well and not leaking. Most start with unknown miles and in desperate need of a complete power-train rebuild. You literately have a new one.

Keep us posted, you have a perfect start.

[LarrBeard]

Yep - welcome to where all of us old coots hang out. We're glad to see you join the group.

We're all still learning. All we can commit to is that we will keep on looking for answers to questions. And, very seriously - there are no stupid questions. We're a good group here, with folks who have developed their own areas of expertise.

Keep us posted with pictures.

Oh yes, you need to be introduced to the two Rules of Jeep early on:

First Rule: What you see is what you have. Trust nothing that is written about your Jeep or what someone tells you about it until you verify it with your own eyes

Second Rule: Never say "Willys-Overland/Kaiser would never have ________________ ." (Fill in the blank with whatever really weird thing you find. W-O never threw away parts or pieces but they threw away records of just what part went into which vehicle.

Over the years we have developed some "Best Practices" for waking up an old Jeep. I will post them as a separate post.

[LarrBeard]

Startup Best Practices


It is not unusual for folks who have just found a barn Jeep or who are starting to work on Grandpa’s CJ3 to ask what to do to get the engine running. While coaxing an old Jeep back to life isn’t all that difficult a job, doing it in too big of a hurry can turn what could have been a pretty good engine into a basket case pretty quickly. Several of us who have gone through our repairs and restorations have come up with some things that will cover a lot of the issues that you will find trying to wake up that old engine. Thanks to Forum contributors Gmwillys, LarrBeard and Pelago for their suggestions.

A good starting place is to check the engine oil level, and oil condition. Go ahead and pull the drain plug. If the oil is milky, then the odds are that the head gasket was likely the cause of the Jeep to be parked. A Willys L or F-head has an oil capacity of about 4 quarts. (The Super Hurricane 6 holds 5-quarts). If a lot more than 4 or 5 quarts comes out, there is a possibility that the block is cracked and coolant has leaked into the oil pan.

Take this opportunity to check the coolant. For initial checkout, it’s not a bad idea to pull the thermostat. When you get to the point that things run, you don’t want a stuck thermostat to blow off or split a hose and give you a hot water shower! If it is clean and green, then there should not be any issues with the head gasket. If there is no coolant in the engine, add water (about 11 or 12 quarts) and see if water leaks out the oil pan drain plug – not a good sign. Radiator leaks and leaky hoses show up about now as well. Resist the temptation to pour stop leak in the radiator. It will usually cause more problems than it solves.

Next, pull the spark plugs and put in a few ounces of engine oil/transmission fluid and a good dose of penetrating oil into each cylinder. Do this before attempting to turn the engine by hand. A word of caution; place a shop towel over the exposed spark plugs holes to catch any oil from running down the side of the F head and you don’t want stuff falling down in spark plug holes in an L-head. Let the engine sit with the concoction for a half hour or so, in order for the penetrating oil to seep into the rings. There could be twenty years of crud in there that will bind the rings to the cylinder wall. If the mixture seeps past the rings, it will just drain into the crankcase and out the drain plug.

While you wait, remove the tappet cover on the driver's side, and lube the cam shaft and tappets. Everything in there is going to be dry and dirty. Inspect for broken springs, or damaged valves. At this time, adjust the fan belt to where it is snug in the water pump and generator pulleys.

Use the fan to carefully rock the engine back and forth. Resist the urge to use a breaker bar on the crankshaft pulley. If it takes that much effort to turn the engine, there are problems. If the engine turns freely, then continue to turn the engine through several times until both the compression and exhaust strokes have been completed. Pay special attention to any noises or a feel of something hanging up the rotation. On the F head engines, pull the valve cover to ensure that the intake valves are cycling fully. Oil the top end well because it’s going to be dry after sitting all that time.

Once you are convinced that the engine is loose and lubricated, it’s time to look into the wiring. Inspect the wires leading from the ignition switch to the coil for mouse damage or just plain old wear and rot. Repair any damage found to prevent a fire hazard. If things are in bad shape, it may be easier to just jury rig a wire from the battery to the coil and another to the starter solenoid to bypass a bunch of wires that may have issues. Remember to disconnect the old wires!

Once all the wires are cleared for electricity, it will be time for a battery. It would be helpful to have a helper when checking the starter for proper operation, in order to pull a cable off the battery in case the starter sticks engaged. If all checks out to this point, then it will be time to check for spark.

Pull the distributor cap, and check the points to ensure that the contacts are clean (they probably won’t be), and are adjusted correctly. It wouldn't be a bad idea to hook up a tach and dwell meter to the distributor to adjust the points, at this time.

Check the cap for cracks and clean the contacts, then reassemble the distributor. When you get to the point of cranking the engine, check for spark at the plugs. Check every plug – this is the easiest place to find an open spark plug wire. A helper is really a bonus for this step!

If you have gotten this far with no major issues, it’s time to add fresh oil. Changing the old oil is a very good idea because you have no way of knowing just what is in that crankcase! For both L and F-134 engines, straight 30W, non-detergent is what the book calls for. New and improved isn’t necessarily better.

It would be prudent at this time to run a compression test to determine if all cylinders will support the engine running. If the compression is right, and there is spark, then reinstall the spark plugs, (a clean used set would do, since there might be a chance of fouling a good set). Or, you might want to leave the plugs out until you crank the engine to prime the fuel system.

Check the fuel tank for contamination/rust/holes. If the tank is a mess, (and it is usually worse than you think it is), connect a temporary gas line to the inlet of the fuel pump, and run a fuel line into an external fuel source. Make sure the external fuel source is secure. Once the engine starts and everyone gets excited, spilling a gallon of gas under the vehicle is a good way to spoil the whole day. Crank the engine (easier to do with the plugs out) and observe the carburetor for fuel leaks. When the fuel bowl has adequate fuel in it, install plugs and try and start the engine.

Resist the urge to use a starting aid such as ether or another starting fluid. This could cause harm to the pistons or a fragile head gasket. Have a clean rag or a glove close to the carburetor to snuff out any carb fire that may happen if an intake valve doesn't fully seat. Also, if there is a back fire through the intake, check to make sure that there is no obstruction in the exhaust pipe. Mice will store a ton of acorns and bedding within the muffler. (They can also pack the bell housing with straw as tightly as a hay bale!)

Listen to the engine to determine if it is receiving enough or too much fuel. If the choke butterfly isn't closing enough to pull enough fuel into the carburetor, cover the carb inlet with your hand to limit the amount of air going into the carb. Shutting off the air supply allows the carburetor to draw more fuel into the intake. This may have to be done until the engine is running, and the air fuel mixture is adjusted.

If you are not receiving fuel into the carburetor, and you have fuel at the carburetor inlet, then the needle and seat are stuck closed within the fuel bowl. If you are receiving too much fuel, then the float may also be stuck in the down position, allowing fuel to drain constantly into the carb throat. A minor carb kit may be needed for the gaskets, if the float and needle need attention. Eventually you will want to rebuild the carburetor – nothing except whiskey and wine improve by sitting twenty or so years.

Since old gauges and sensors are always suspect, it is a good idea to put a mechanical oil gauge on the oil sensor port of the block. When the engine starts, pay attention to the oil pressure, to ensure that it comes up quickly after start. Listen for any odd noises, and make note of anything out of the norm. If it doesn’t sound right – it probably isn’t! Try not to race the engine until you have a good sense that everything is normal. There is a lot of crud and dirty oil in the galleries and passages in the engine at this point. Leave the radiator cap off to observe that there are no combustion gases escaping through the coolant. Let the engine reach operating temperature, and then shut it off. Change the engine oil, the oil filter if the vehicle has one and change the coolant. You will be surprised at how nasty the oil and coolant are. Change them again after you’ve driven a couple of hundred miles. It takes time for all the crud to work its way out.

If all is normal, then you have yourself a good engine. Now, the real work begins. Good Luck!

[okiemark]

Having a body with nothing rusted out to start out with is a great sign. That eliminates a lot of work and expense and also indicates the Jeep has spent most of its life under a roof.

[WetWillysCJ5]

slight update, we have begun to tear into it. after putting it on the flat surface of our garage it appears the body may be slightly torqued. We put jack stands under the frame in 4 corners and measured and it doesn't appear the frame is bent. Ordered some body mount rubber bushings as some of the factory cloth ones are still present in a few locations but most of them are gone. Hopefully that gets rid of most of the flex. But the thing also doesn't really have a straight (not dented) surface or panel on it, guess it won't be winning any beauty contests soon. But luckily I haven't found any rust holes still, lots of surface rust and some scale but it appears to be solid. drivers side leaf springs are flat now so definitely going to be doing a full suspension kit all the way around. Lots of road grime everywhere too.

There is coolant in the radiator, the oil level appears normal on the dip stick and someone even put in a fix oil filter! I took the valve cover off and it looks brand new under neath despite the outside of the engine looking horrible, I'm inclined to believe the mileage is correct. Also the oil filter canister looked brand new inside and the oil looked like oil with no metal flakes. Engine turned over freely, and we rotated it a couple revolutions with no issues or weird noises.

Upon hooking up a battery all of the lights came to life. Headlights, turn signals, some of the dash lights worked. the ignition key also works, the engine turns over well with the starter but we've run into the first of many issues. No spark. the points and condensor are new it appears and there's a box of what appears to be the old set of points and condensor in the glove box.

Heres some pics of everything so far:
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[gmwillys]

To have a non-rusted dented body would be a dream come true, to us rust belters. The points, even though they look like they have been replaced, may need a touch up with some fine sand paper or a nail file to clean them up. Check for power at the coil when the engine is turning over to verify the points/condenser are good. If there is power, check the resistance across the positive and negative of the coil. This will show if the coil has a short internally, the resistance will be be very low, 0.2 to 0.0 ohms, with a very weak spark. If the resistance is high, the coil has an open circuit, and will not create a spark.

The body will be alright after you replace the body rubber mounts. The body is pretty rugged when not riddled with rust.

[okiemark]

Those photos bring back memories. Maybe a couple of bad dreams.

[bmorgil]

Man WW that thing is in good shape. You are just looking at surface rust there. I dont see any true "rot". A good bit of elbow grease and everything frame and all, looks like it might just clean up. You have a real gem there.

[gmwillys]

If you would like some advice on what to use to clean up the undercarriage, try some of these brushes; https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-80-grit-nylon-abrasive-wheel-with-14-in-shank-60325.html?_br_psugg_q=nylon+abrasive+wheel

That is all I use to remove paint and surface rust. Although I do dig the look of the patina of your 5's body paint. If it were mine, I would clear coat it over the existing paint, and leave it with the hard earned look that it has. Just a thought, because they are only original once. The pictures below are of a couple of the projects that I've used the nylon brushes on. The 2A had six layers of paint to include one layer of yellow latex house paint. I couldn't salvage the original Normandy blue because the body had been repaired too many times, and in some places the blue was too thin. The body wasn't as bad as I thought it was, so I've left it the bare metal look for the time being.

[bmorgil]

I love that original Willys 4 Wheel Drive sticker on the tailgate!

gm you cleaned that stuff up for sure. You and your Patina! My boy loves it too.

[gmwillys]

The four wheel drive is painted on. KW has the stencil.

What can I say, I like rough around the edges.. And the top... And underneath. Patina tells a story without saying a word. A lot of these custom shops replicate the look with paint effects, but the soul isn't there. Some folks love Ginger , some love Mary Anne.

[okiemark]

I agree, the back of that Jeep is remarkable.

[WetWillysCJ5]

We plan to keep the patina, I quite like it and I don't have to worry about scratching the paint or rock chips or anything like that. I am considering using some sort of paint over rust type paint on the frame though, since the suspension will be all new and black as well.

[WetWillysCJ5]

Update: I tested all ignition components and ended up cleaning the points and it has spark now! Poured a little gas down the carb and it barked to life for a brief moment. I’m going to do an oil change and filter change before going any further. I also may hook up an oil pressure gauge rather than the idiot light it currently has. No one around me seems to have a filter so I’ll have to order it and hurry up and wait. In the mean time does anyone know what all of the knobs on the dash do? I found the light switch but everything else doesn’t have a label and doesn’t seem to do anything. And does anyone know what these brackets are for the top? It looks like later cj5/7 top brackets over some home made pole carrier thing? I’m not sure what it is.
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[LarrBeard]

Is that an oil gauge by the passenger's left knee?

And the tool box actually has a bottom in it! Unheard of....

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE=WetWillysCJ5;13148]In the mean time does anyone know what all of the knobs on the dash do? /QUOTE]

I thought that was a pretty simple question until I asked Mr/Mrs Google - and just about every picture has a different dash layout. Some of them look more like airplanes than Jeeps!

All I can say is that the one that goes to the cable on the carburetor is the choke. Duh.

Here is a bit of advice from an old coot who has been working on Jeeps since he was your age - and that's well over 50 years.

Go ahead and buy the book. Real men really do read the book - at least after they break something really hard to find by doing something stupid. I have several of those t-shirts.

This first book is a gotta have:

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/literature/mechanics-manuals/mechanics-service-manual-fits-46-65-cj-2a-3a-3b-5

I have this one for the '48 truck and it has helped out a lot several times - especially when you try to figure just which end goes where:

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/literature/master-parts-listings/master-parts-list-manual-fits-55-71-cj-5-with-4-134-engine

At least it barked at you and I commend you on waiting for new oil before you try to start it. You could put 50K miles on it in just a few minutes with a sump full of filthy oil, dust and grass.

Be just as patient with the rear end, tranny and transfer case. Lube in them is just as dirty, if not more so, that the engine.

[okiemark]

That is a lot of knobs for a CJ5. You have a choke, light switch, wiper switch maybe, Heater fan and temp control.

[bmorgil]

I strongly agree with LarrBeard, you are destine for pain without the books. You would be surprised how much you can learn from the manuals.

[LarrBeard]

Here is an example of one of our guys who repainted his Gladiator, but just clear coated the tailgate to keep the "patina" of the original:

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2232-1964-Kaiser-Willys-Jeep-Gladiator-Cindy&p=13177#post13177