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bluesblooded
09-03-2020, 08:46 AM
Hello Everyone,

I'm newly retired from an IT job. In the last year, my hobbies have changed quite a bit. I was planning to build electric guitars and after 7 builds in 8 years, I decide to quit woodworking. First for the noise and saw dust, second for the space since I'm planning to move in a smaller house, third, how many guitars a bad player really needs. So I sold everything and got a 3D printer. I'm really happy with my choice. Makes little noise and fits in a corner of my desk. For me, the fun of 3D printing is to be able to design my own stuff and print it to validate that everything works fine. It's a rapid prototype platform.

My love for the Willys Jeeps comes from watching MASH with my father and then with my son. It reminds me of great family time. Designing a Willys was therefore a natural choice, because of my attachment to the television series and that it is a "relatively simple" design. I chose the WW2 model because there seems to be more information available for it.

This will be my first car design from scratch. I will learn a great deal and curse like us French Canadians are well known for.

My goals are to render the Willys MB as close as the original as possible. I will digress from the original to accommodate the 3D printing process. I also wish to make it so I can scale it by changing a few parameters. This will complicate my design a lot as everything will need to be define properly. I'm not sure if I will be able to meet that goal.

This will be a long thread. I'd say it should take at least 6 months to get to the final design.

Enough chit chat, let's start.

bluesblooded
09-03-2020, 08:53 AM
First thing i did was to insert blueprint canvas in my design software Fusion 360

Ive inserted a right, top back and frame images.

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Here's the right view.

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From that view I designed the frame and extrude it. You only see half of the frame as I plan to use the mirror command to generate the other half

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I plan to validate early on that the design is sound.

Here is the first print out of the frame so far

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Some assembly is required since the frame is too long to be printed on my printer's bed

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bluesblooded
09-03-2020, 08:57 AM
Here is the whole thing so far assembled

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I think I need to revise the front part of the frame. I don't think that it should lift up like this, but some pictures I saw has this but I have problems figuring out how the triangular bumper bracket will fit.

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I've never seen a Willys close enough, so I'm working from plans, video and pictures.

Your feedback will be greatly appreciated.

okiemark
09-03-2020, 09:12 AM
That is fascinating. That looks like a lot of fun. There are some other crossmembers that go in there. The jackstands are neat too. I know we are all looking forward to the progress on this.

BLE Bob
09-03-2020, 09:13 AM
Interesting project.

What scale are you building this in??


* like the 3D printed jack stands!!

okiemark
09-03-2020, 10:14 AM
I believe he said 1/10.

bluesblooded
09-03-2020, 10:20 AM
Thanks Guys,

Working on the other crossmembers this morning.

Yes the chosen scale is 1/10 but if all goes well, I will be able to do whatever scale by the change of a single parameter.

gmwillys
09-03-2020, 03:02 PM
Yeah, I would have to have a set of jack stands as well, then it would really look like our 2A in its present form.

bluesblooded
09-04-2020, 08:00 AM
Yeah, I would have to have a set of jack stands as well, then it would really look like our 2A in its present form.

:)

Made some progress on the frame.

Made the front of the frame flat. Replaced the front flat crossmember with a tubular one. Created the two other crossmembers.

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next, the bumpers

bmorgil
09-04-2020, 08:51 AM
Oh my God I love this! Fascinating to say the least. Here is a frame shot for you. As you go along we may be able to provide quite a few actual shots for the detail if it will help. If it is a Military Frame it needs the machine gun mount. gmwillys posted some pictures of one somewhere.

bluesblooded
09-04-2020, 09:02 AM
Oh my God I love this! Fascinating to say the least. Here is a frame shot for you. As you go along we may be able to provide quite a few actual shots for the detail if it will help. If it is a Military Frame it needs the machine gun mount. gmwillys posted some pictures of one somewhere.

Thanks BMorgil, the pictures will be very helpful. I will include the gun mount

gmwillys
09-04-2020, 11:35 AM
This is an M38 frame with the machine gun mount. The mount didn't change much from the MB to M38 all the way to the M38A1

bluesblooded
09-04-2020, 12:46 PM
Thanks gmwillys, I added the gun mounting plate based on your picture.

When I compare your picture and my design it seems the middle crossmember is too far from the rear crossmember.

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46.5mm * 10 (1/10 scale) = 465mm which is roughly 18.25in between the two crossmembers. Does it make sense?

I'm using this blueprint as a reference

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cmanderson79
09-04-2020, 03:53 PM
BB, I think this is so cool. We have this type of equipment where I work. I have a coworker that has a machine as well. I have to show him this.

Cool Project

Chuck

5JeepsAz
09-04-2020, 09:48 PM
This is fantastic! Thank you for sharing. Some random thoughts...

If you're asking for creative input, do you think it may want for a nod to original? Are you going for look or function or originality? Input might be, first, a touch of mud, plants wedged in the rust or uneven paint, what clothing for the warriors, a dog with a vest, somewhere closer to the final product? Second, we are often reminded never was it made exactly to blueprint. That never happened. An odd part that 'fits' is put in somewhere along the line. Would you consider printing up a variant part from another blueprint (fordvswillys) and make it fit? Third, a thing I saw most recently was a bar they put on the front bumper, in the field but before deployment, a vertical bar higher than the window. That defeated wires strung across the road meant by the enemy to decapitate the driver. Doesn't have to be that part in particular, but could it use some historically accurate modifications beyond blueprint at your pleasure to be truer to original? Fourth, there's a reason to use various grades of metals, some parts are weight bearing. Hate to see this thing sagging once you put in a kill devil engine! Worth thinking about, as I'm sure you are doing. And last, I read on a model building site that the jigs are required to keep square are also part of the model building process. Will be interesting to see what jigs you come up with along the way!

All off-the-shelf comments are meant to be supportive and helpful - this thing is great, and I'm thrilled like everyone watching you make it happen!!

bluesblooded
09-05-2020, 06:34 AM
BB, I think this is so cool. We have this type of equipment where I work. I have a coworker that has a machine as well. I have to show him this.

Cool Project

Chuck

Thanks Chuck, I'm sure having a lot of fun with this project.





This is fantastic! Thank you for sharing.

Thanks 5JeepsAz, it's a pleasure to share my project and it's a greater pleasure to feel the welcome and support of this group of people. Seing the real thing being restored and brought back to life by this group is hearth warming.



If you're asking for creative input, do you think it may want for a nod to original? Are you going for look or function or originality? Input might be, first, a touch of mud, plants wedged in the rust or uneven paint, what clothing for the warriors, a dog with a vest, somewhere closer to the final product?

You have given this a lot of thoughts, you are way ahead of me. I have not thought of anything else other than building the Jeep itself as close as the original as possible. I like the idea of adding elements to it. This could grow into a multi phase project.


Second, we are often reminded never was it made exactly to blueprint. That never happened. An odd part that 'fits' is put in somewhere along the line. Would you consider printing up a variant part from another blueprint (fordvswillys) and make it fit?

I like the idea of variants. Something to think about. As I'm looking at pictures, I always ask myself was this part of the original or an afterthoughts for practical reasons. You make me think that if I digress from the original for some reasons, it won't be catastrophic.


Third, a thing I saw most recently was a bar they put on the front bumper, in the field but before deployment, a vertical bar higher than the window. That defeated wires strung across the road meant by the enemy to decapitate the driver. Doesn't have to be that part in particular, but could it use some historically accurate modifications beyond blueprint at your pleasure to be truer to original?

I saw that wire cutting bar as well and found it was clever. Also reminded me that war is no fun. I mentioned in the first post of this thread that my first encounter with the Willys Jeep was through the MASH tv series. I may add stretchers on the hood and back seat. I think many variations will sprout in my mind overtime.


Fourth, there's a reason to use various grades of metals, some parts are weight bearing. Hate to see this thing sagging once you put in a kill devil engine! Worth thinking about, as I'm sure you are doing.

Scaling things down to 1/10 and using 3D printed materials brings its own challenges. This will force me to digress from the original to add strength.


And last, I read on a model building site that the jigs are required to keep square are also part of the model building process. Will be interesting to see what jigs you come up with along the way!

Time will tell.


All off-the-shelf comments are meant to be supportive and helpful - this thing is great, and I'm thrilled like everyone watching you make it happen!!

Your comments are welcomed and taken as intended. Thanks for taking the time to write them.

I do appreciate all the help so far by everyone! Thank you All!

scoutingranch
09-05-2020, 07:27 AM
Ohhh', we have a Billy Zoom in the world of Willys? Nice.

okiemark
09-05-2020, 08:23 AM
In the case of my Jeep when I found it, no two bolts would be the same length.

5JeepsAz
09-05-2020, 10:42 PM
I'm so proud of this part I just found on my 64 I'm posting it again. I stuck a magnet down into the door and out came the missing clip. When I saw that green paint, man, it was some feeling. Now it barely fit, so I know it was cross pollination from mil spec, paint off that color not being available on a civvy. I can't e cplaincthe feeling of knowing this thing has been in there for fifty plus years. Anyway, your MASH Jeep is way cool project, glad to see your progress

TJones
09-06-2020, 06:05 AM
WOW BB, I'm not sure how I missed your thread on here but that is "Technology at its Finest". I am an excavator and I have a software program that's called INSITE and it does dirt calculations to determine the quantity of cut/fill on sites to tell you how much dirt needs to be moved around on i.e. a 15 acre site for a new Walmart and it builds 3D models similar to yours when you are finished, of the existing site before you start and the same thing of the proposed site when your finished and it helps to give you an image of what it "supposed" to look like when your done. It is not as detailed as what you have but it is similar. It amazes me how far technology has come in the last 15-20 years.
The model your building is truly impressive, Keep up the Good work and keep us updated as you get further into it.
Here is a couple pictures of my frustration when I started my project back when I had a CAI (Crazy A&^ Idea) and thought I have a dream:D:D


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bluesblooded
09-06-2020, 08:20 AM
Ohhh', we have a Billy Zoom in the world of Willys? Nice.

Had to look Billy Zoom up. I'm totally clueless about Punk Rock. You can tell by my nickname what my music preference is. If you are into guitar/amp/pedal building, feel free to check my Facebook page where I showcase the things I build. You will have to dig down a bit since my last guitar was completed at the beginning of 2020. http://tessier.work


In the case of my Jeep when I found it, no two bolts would be the same length.

lol, my notion of "Original" is shifting, with your comment and 5JeepsAz above, I'm getting the sense that no Jeep that age is totally original. and it make sense.


I'm so proud of this part I just found on my 64 I'm posting it again. I stuck a magnet down into the door and out came the missing clip. When I saw that green paint, man, it was some feeling. Now it barely fit, so I know it was cross pollination from mil spec, paint off that color not being available on a civvy. I can't e cplaincthe feeling of knowing this thing has been in there for fifty plus years. Anyway, your MASH Jeep is way cool project, glad to see your progress

Must have been an exhilarating moment to find this treasure in your Jeep. I've started reading your Cindy thread in my spare time, which unfortunately is not that much. Who would've thought that I'd be looking for more time at retirement.:rolleyes:



WOW BB, I'm not sure how I missed your thread on here but that is "Technology at its Finest". I am an excavator and I have a software program that's called INSITE and it does dirt calculations to determine the quantity of cut/fill on sites to tell you how much dirt needs to be moved around on i.e. a 15 acre site for a new Walmart and it builds 3D models similar to yours when you are finished, of the existing site before you start and the same thing of the proposed site when your finished and it helps to give you an image of what it "supposed" to look like when your done. It is not as detailed as what you have but it is similar. It amazes me how far technology has come in the last 15-20 years.
The model your building is truly impressive, Keep up the Good work and keep us updated as you get further into it.
Here is a couple pictures of my frustration when I started my project back when I had a CAI (Crazy A&^ Idea) and thought I have a dream:D:D


6594659565966597

Thanks TJones for the comments, you are right about software evolving over the past two decades. I worked IT most of my career, mainly as a sysadmin, but I've done quite a bit of programming as well. Writing a piece of software that can build 3D things and render them is beyond my level of understanding. Truly remarkable. Thanks for the picture, your 80 pages thread is next on my thread to read. There must be a lot of nice thing in there.

Here's the progress to date. I work on half the frame, it's easier this way and half the work. As you can see I added the bumpers.

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I then use the mirror command to create the other half and used the rendering portion of the software to get this picture.

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My next order of business is to build the lower crossmember and add most of the brackets. This way I should be pretty close to the final version of the frame. I hope to print it sometime this week.

I also ordered three rolls of Army Green filament.

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This is the closest I'll get without painting it.

scoutingranch
09-06-2020, 12:47 PM
[QUOTE=bluesblooded;13949]Had to look Billy Zoom up. I'm totally clueless about Punk Rock. You can tell by my nickname what my music preference is. If you are into guitar/amp/pedal building, feel free to check my Facebook page where I showcase the things I build. You will have to dig down a bit since my last guitar was completed at the beginning of 2020. http://tessier.work


Zoom has a shop in L.A where he builds equipment. His comments about playing was to make it look as simple as possible and not make harsh faces while playing, only smiles. X can be viewed on Utube.

I'll go to your website.

bluesblooded
09-06-2020, 05:19 PM
[QUOTE=bluesblooded;13949]Had to look Billy Zoom up. I'm totally clueless about Punk Rock. You can tell by my nickname what my music preference is. If you are into guitar/amp/pedal building, feel free to check my Facebook page where I showcase the things I build. You will have to dig down a bit since my last guitar was completed at the beginning of 2020. http://tessier.work


Zoom has a shop in L.A where he builds equipment. His comments about playing was to make it look as simple as possible and not make harsh faces while playing, only smiles. X can be viewed on Utube.

I'll go to your website.

I've listened to a couple of clips on YouTube. They definitely rock.

bluesblooded
09-07-2020, 12:06 PM
I added the transmission crossmember.

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Now ready to print it. I place the digital files on the bed of the slicer software and decide of the orientation. I also add some support (the transparent blue blocks) this will add support because a 3 printer cannot print in thin air. So whenever there is a gap with the bed I may need to add support. There is some bridging possible without support, but it rarely is satisfactory

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Once satisfied, I slice the parts. The software does exactly that, slice at a predetermined thickness. For now I use 0.3mm slices. It is consider a draft. Not good quality, but faster. That is perfect for the prototype phase.

The slicer figures out where to melt plastic and generates gcode (machine language that CNC and 3D printer uses). This Gcode is basically movement coordinates of movement along the three axes, X, Y an Z*.

The green portions are the support. As you can see, there is far less green than blue block in the above picture. I did not catch this therefore, a bunch of support will be missing. I will need to revisit this the next time. In the draft settings, it will take about 5 hours to print

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Here we have it after the first layer of 0.3mm

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bluesblooded
09-07-2020, 12:12 PM
Here it's assembled

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All in all, it is good. I need to make a couple of adjustments, I need to add tolerance between some of the parts. The fit is too tight. I also need to revisit some of the parts printing position to see if I can get better results.

I will be ready to print at a higher resolution and see what it will look like at 0.15mm layers. I also plan to print it at different scale to see how the parametric changes behave.

TJones
09-07-2020, 03:34 PM
That is IMPRESSIVE BB, don’t be so hard on yourself as far as being perfect. It is damn near perfect the way it is!!
You may have created a monster on this site, I probably could come up with 10-12 guys and girls that would pay ya to duplicate their project me of course being the proto type :cool::cool:!!!
That is so Cool and I bet it’s just as cool to be able to build them.

LarrBeard
09-07-2020, 03:42 PM
It looks like you have a white primed frame sitting on jackstands in the cleanest garage ever!

This is fantastic!

okiemark
09-07-2020, 04:57 PM
I think you've got us hooked!

bmorgil
09-07-2020, 06:41 PM
Wow man this is cool!

5JeepsAz
09-07-2020, 09:00 PM
Awesome awesome awesome

gmwillys
09-08-2020, 05:15 AM
This is a very interesting subject. Modern technology at its finest. Good work!

bmorgil
09-08-2020, 07:21 AM
Are you going to make the steering arm mount on the front cross-member, and the engine mount braces as separate parts?

bluesblooded
09-08-2020, 08:43 AM
That is IMPRESSIVE BB, don’t be so hard on yourself as far as being perfect. It is damn near perfect the way it is!!
You may have created a monster on this site, I probably could come up with 10-12 guys and girls that would pay ya to duplicate their project me of course being the proto type :cool::cool:!!!
That is so Cool and I bet it’s just as cool to be able to build them.

Thanks TJ, I don't know about creating a monster, but I sure appreciate the positive feedback from everyone. It pushes me to move forward. A supplemental retirement income would never hurt :rolleyes:



It looks like you have a white primed frame sitting on jackstands in the cleanest garage ever!

This is fantastic!

And clean fingernails in bonus ;) Thanks LarrBeard


I think you've got us hooked!

Thanks Mark


Wow man this is cool!

Thank you bmorgil


Awesome awesome awesome

Thanks 5JeepsAz


This is a very interesting subject. Modern technology at its finest. Good work!

Thanks gmwillys, I will add new modern technology to my arsenal. Just ordered a 3D resin printer. Will talk about it later.


Are you going to make the steering arm mount on the front cross-member, and the engine mount braces as separate parts?

I have not included the engine brackets yet because they are not located symmetrically. I will add them after the mirroring process is completed.

As for the steering mount, are you referring to this part circled in blue in your picture?

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If so this is the first time I notice it. I will have to think about how I will integrate this. Due to its size, I may make it a separate part, but then I'll have to figure out how to install it afterwards.

I've tested my scaling parameters and it looks to be working fine down to a scale of 1:16. Smaller than that gives a load of errors. Going bigger does not seem to be a problem.

here's a picture of the printed parts of the frame scaled at 1:16

Even if I used a resolution of 0.15mm layers, the quality is good, but could be better.

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On the good side, the tolerance I added worked just fine, maybe even a bit too loose. I will test ont the larger scale printout a tolerance of 0.075mm instead of 0.1mm

The printer I have is using FDM (Fused Deposition Modelling) technology. This is the most popular 3D printing technology. It's easy to operate. The drawback is the precision. It has too do with the nozzle diameter and thickness of layers. These are great printers, but when you try to print smaller parts, they are a bit limited.

On the other hand, SLA printers are best suited for really small detail printing. They are also limited by the size of parts that can be printed. In comparison, my FDM printer as a bed of roughly 8x8x8 inches. An affordable SLA printer as a printer bed of 5x3x6 inches. It also differs on how it prints. Instead of melting plastic, it uses a liquid resins that reacts to UV. The bed soaks in the resin and an LCD screen sends UV light where the models should be. The resin reacts to UV and hardens at that exact position. The resolution is way better, but the process is slower and dealing with the post processing of resin printed part is a pain in the lower back. Up until today I resisted the urge of getting one, but the lack of fine details of the 1:16 scale convinced me to pull the trigger.

bmorgil
09-08-2020, 08:55 AM
I have not included the engine brackets yet because they are not located symmetrically. I will add them after the mirroring process is completed.

As for the steering mount, are you referring to this part circled in blue in your picture?

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If so this is the first time I notice it. I will have to think about how I will integrate this. Due to its size, I may make it a separate part, but then I'll have to figure out how to install it afterwards.

Yes that's it, officially the "Steering Bell crank" mount. It is a fairly big piece. Also the Master cylinder mount on the drivers side if you want to hook up the brakes!

bluesblooded
09-08-2020, 03:23 PM
Yes that's it, officially the "Steering Bell crank" mount. It is a fairly big piece. Also the Master cylinder mount on the drivers side if you want to hook up the brakes!

I don't know yet what will be the level of details for mechanical things. I will see how the project evolves.

I wondered how to assemble the smaller scale. I thought that screw would be overkill and too big in comparison. So I decided to make holes the size of the filament and use it as guides to glue the parts together.

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I'm happy with the decision, it works great.

Here is the 1:16 scale next to the 1:10

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The biggest scale I can get away with is 1:6 if I orient the frame diagonally.

Here you can see the two portions that makes the frame.

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The 1:6 scale frame will take over 28 hours to print. You'll get to see the result by the end of the week. I do not print when I sleep. The printer is a fire hazard. The hot end heats plastic at 225 celcius / 437 Farenheit. I prefer to always have an ear or an eye on it

While we wait, I'll start to design the leaf springs. I may also entertain you :rolleyes::rolleyes: on all the parametric stuff I've alluded along this thread. It may get boring, but I think is a great feature of Fusion 360 over other software such as Rhino 3D.

gmwillys
09-08-2020, 07:45 PM
A little history lesson from the archive of near useless information. The steering bell crank on the MB and Ford GPW were not mounted to the frame cross member like the 2A on up. It was mounted directly to the axle tube. It was changed after the war due to brake steering issues. I. E. Slam on the brakes, and the Jeep would cut hard due the shift in the suspension. It was the only real safety flaw of the design, but being that the whole works was designed and built in a matter of weeks, not too shabby.

bluesblooded
09-08-2020, 08:34 PM
A little history lesson from the archive of near useless information. The steering bell crank on the MB and Ford GPW were not mounted to the frame cross member like the 2A on up. It was mounted directly to the axle tube. It was changed after the war due to brake steering issues. I. E. Slam on the brakes, and the Jeep would cut hard due the shift in the suspension. It was the only real safety flaw of the design, but being that the whole works was designed and built in a matter of weeks, not too shabby.

Thanks gmwillys for the history lesson. Keep them coming, I love history.

So the steering bell crank would be mounted on this post on the right side?

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gmwillys
09-08-2020, 09:11 PM
You are correct. The stud is fairly close to being centered on the axle, with the pumpkin, or ring and pinion gear housing being on the passenger side. The picture is shown from the front looking rearward.

5JeepsAz
09-08-2020, 09:52 PM
I absolutely love this thing, even with little to no detail. On the other hand, this print thing you do allows for exquisite detail. Interested in whereabout you end up on detail/functions.

bluesblooded
09-08-2020, 09:56 PM
I absolutely love this thing, even with little to no detail. On the other hand, this print thing you do allows for exquisite detail. Interested in whereabout you end up on detail/functions.

I meant the level of details of mechanical parts that are not visible like the master cylinder and hooking the brakes. As far as detail of the exterior, I hope to add as much as possible.

bmorgil
09-09-2020, 07:26 AM
So the steering wheel will move left and right as the springs flex. That would be interesting. Probably not to bad at 35 mph, a handful at 50! Here is a picture of the MB cross member from the KW catalog. So no need to make the monster bell crank mount. Good thing gm is here!

gmwillys
09-09-2020, 08:20 AM
The field fix was to add a helper spring to the driver's side front leaf spring pack. The fix was known as a side torque reaction kit This helped to reduce the deflection of the spring during heavy braking. This is also used to help reduce the amount of "Willys lean" on later versions, because every Willys leans towards the driver's side over time.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/vehicle/41-45-mb/suspension/leaf-spring-assemblies/front-drivers-side-torque-reaction-kit-fits-41-45-mb-gpw

bluesblooded
09-09-2020, 08:43 AM
Thanks gmwillys for the precision about the torque reaction spring.

This would go right under the driver side front spring like on this picture? (Does arrow point at it?)

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These are the supports generated by the software to be able to not print in thin air.

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I cut them carefully away with an x-acto knife.

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and remove them

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Here is the first portion of the 1:6 scale frame. It is humongous.

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Please let me know if I'm boring you with too many details. I like to give as much information as possible. I've learned so many things because of forums like this, it's my way of giving back to others.

Oh and a quick update about the resin printer, well I cancelled it... Too many health risks.

TJones
09-09-2020, 02:20 PM
BB is the scrap you trim off recyclable and can you reuse it or is it just that SCRAP??

gmwillys
09-09-2020, 03:19 PM
BB, please keep the information coming. We tend to be a little old fashioned in our thoughts, but it is good to learn something new everyday. This is definitely outside of our wheel house, but absolutely interesting.

What would be the associated costs of printing a frame thus far? The machine doesn't seem to use a whole lot of power from what little I know about them, but maybe over the several hours it takes, it could add up.

It will really be interesting to see how the body turns out.

bluesblooded
09-09-2020, 03:27 PM
BB is the scrap you trim off recyclable and can you reuse it or is it just that SCRAP??

Hey TJ, it depends on the material used.

In this case it's PLA (Polyactic acid) basically, it's made from corns starch. It is compostable. Apparently it's recyclable as well, but my city has no clue what to do with it. There is some machine that can melt it again and make it into filament, but the quality is not there yet.

There are a few people who collect the scrap and recycle it somehow.

The second most popular is PETG which is recyclable, but again, my city want nothing to do with it.

There is other material made of ABS, Nylon, TPU very flexible, but never dealt with them so I do not know.

bluesblooded
09-09-2020, 03:38 PM
BB, please keep the information coming. We tend to be a little old fashioned in our thoughts, but it is good to learn something new everyday. This is definitely outside of our wheel house, but absolutely interesting.

What would be the associated costs of printing a frame thus far? The machine doesn't seem to use a whole lot of power from what little I know about them, but maybe over the several hours it takes, it could add up.

It will really be interesting to see how the body turns out.

Thanks gmwillys, I will keep the info coming.

The cost of printing is less than expected when I started. For instance a roll of 2.2lbs will vary between 25$ and 50$. Printing the frame in 1:10 scale is less than 2$ and I'm talking CAD, so pennies for you guys in the US :p

Where the cost goes up is the printer itself. You can buy one for around 300$ but you will need to upgrade it and fiddle with it. On the other hand, if like me, you want something plug and play, you will need to spend 4 times as much. To me it's totally worth it. I believe I will be able to get at least 5 years of printing with minimal maintenance.

As for power I did not see any significant change in my utility bill. But it does use heat to melt the plastic and keep the bed hot. But it runs on a 24v power supply. Not a concern for me.

bluesblooded
09-09-2020, 05:15 PM
Today was not productive. I spent many hours to work on the spring but it will not work. I will quit and sleep on it maybe I'll get a clue.

But it is a great example of the process involved and what I mean by parametric model and why it is important.

Basically the spring is a the lower part of multiple circles. So I start by drawing several concentric circles and give them a diameter of 2mm bigger than the nearest one.

6627

here's a zoomed in picture of the lower part. you can see I added vertical lines that will define the portion of the circle I will use to make the spring

6628

I can then select each portion I want to extrude to make the spring out of.

6629

I give it a thickness of 3mm and voilà the beginning of the spring

6630

I add some width to the bars.

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So far so good. If in time I find that the circles are too small or the vertical lines not well positioned, all I have to do is double click on the dimension, type in the new value and all the adjustment are made. It's that simple.

bluesblooded
09-09-2020, 05:46 PM
I then place the spring where I want it to be relative to the frame. To do this I use a rigid joint and align the circle of the frame spring bracket and the hole in the spring.

6632

In my case I want to be able to change the scale of the model with the simple change of a value. Right now I'm working in a 1:10 scale. If I want to do a 1:16 then without the parametric feature, I would have to revise every dimension in every sketch I made.

Thus far, I have 47 sketches, over 600 dimensions and a number of operations like extrusions. Remember in my last post, I made a solid spring by extruding my sketch model by 3mm. So after changing all the dimensions, I would need to change all the operations value accordingly. Needless to say that is crazy.

The beauty of a parametric CAD software is that you can assign value to some parameters and replace them on a whim.

Here is a window of some of the parameters I defined and use. The most important one is the one called SF for "Scale Factor". I also defined the value to 1.

6633

So whenever I enter a dimension in any sketch I multiply this dimension by sf.

Instead of giving a dimension for the smaller spring diameter of 356mm, I type in 356*sf. So the software checks the value of SF being 1 and gives the result 356*1 = 356mm

So to scale the design, all I need to do is go in my parameter window, locate the SF parameter and change the value from 1 to whatever. So to get a 1:16 scale, I change the value to 0.625. To get a 1:6 scale, I change the value to 1.67.

In the picture below, you can see the parameter set to 0.625. All I do then is click OK, the software apply this new SF value to wherever it was used and compute the size of the new model.

6634

I start testing with a 2 SF value, which will double the size of the parts. The design scales just fine. The picture below is scale to twice as big as the original. The only way ou can tell it apart from the previous picture is that the holes are smaller. Because I did not apply the SF factor to all the holes I have in the design. The rationale behind this decision is that screws are not available in every imaginable size. A 2mm screw hole scale to 1:6 (SF=1.67) gives a hole of 3.34mm. Impossible to find. If you check back the previous parameter windows, you will find different parameter I use to determine holes value. So when I scale to a different size, I can choose to use different screw sizes by changing the parameter accordingly.

6635

My next test, is to scale it smaller. So I change the SF value to 0.625 and check if the design behaves as it should.

6636

As you can see, it does not. Somehow, the spring is separated in two parts and the upper most spring portion is curved in the wrong direction.

I've been struggling to fix this all day and have not found the solution yet. I did two different sketching strategies. This is one is the closest, the first one was way worst. It would behave badly no matter if I scaled up or down. Hopefully I'll find a fix tomorrow.

5JeepsAz
09-09-2020, 09:05 PM
Seems like a highly productive couple of days. Heck yes keep posting! That scale factor explanation was supremo. And, what about the drive train. I know, I know . We're still at frame. I'll wait patiently. Meantime, how you design those springs was highly interesting.

bmorgil
09-10-2020, 07:41 AM
bb, what do you think the hardest part of the project will be?

bluesblooded
09-10-2020, 08:39 AM
Seems like a highly productive couple of days. Heck yes keep posting! That scale factor explanation was supremo. And, what about the drive train. I know, I know . We're still at frame. I'll wait patiently. Meantime, how you design those springs was highly interesting.

Yes it's been productive so far. Made more progress than anticipated. The drive will be the next part after the springs. I plan to build the two diffs, and connect them to the transfer case. I don't expect they will work, as I do not plan to do the internal gears. I Hope I can get the wheels to turn and steer left and right. but not the steering wheel itself. I think it will depend on the size of the axle. It needs to be tough enough and I may need to cheat.


bb, what do you think the hardest part of the project will be?

Interesting question, this is my first car design from A to Z. When I first started I had high hopes of drawing whatever car I wished and 3D print it.

I realized really quickly that it would be a lot tougher than I expected. The main problem for me is that I have no mechanical engineer knowledge.

I watched a lot of tutorial of car designs, but they all fell short at the same point, they were all aimed at building the outer surface. That makes for nice renderings, but is useless if you want to 3D print them. You need thickness. In CAD software, a surface has 0 thickness.

The next big challenge for me was how to make the piece fit together. I'm no mechanics either. I own a car and did some minor repair when I could not afford to pay. To this day I still do my brakes on my car, but that is the only thing I do.

There was a big gap to fill. Then I stumbled on a company called 3Dsets.com (https://www.3dsets.com/). They sell digital files of trucks specifically for 3D printing and RC control. They have two models a Jeep Rancher and a Landy. So I bought the files for the biggest truck they had. A Landy 4x4 Wagon. I printed the truck and followed their assembly document. But before assembling the truck, I would design each individual parts by reverse engineering them. I learned a lot.

It gave me a perspective that I did not have.

Now back to your question, what should be the hardest part: Whatever parts that have surfaces that go in multiple directions is hard to model, unless you can split it into basic geometry. Fortunately, the Willys is pretty straightforward.

I hope you are still there :rolleyes: The differential and the tub should be the hardest. But I have a plan to divide and conquer that should help me achieve them

bmorgil
09-10-2020, 08:59 AM
Haha, we are still here for the long haul! Keep it coming man, a very unique thread. I cant wait for production. I am thinking you could move quite a few of these in the right environments. I hope we get a discount!

Bob

bluesblooded
09-10-2020, 09:43 AM
Haha, we are still here for the long haul! Keep it coming man, a very unique thread. I cant wait for production. I am thinking you could move quite a few of these in the right environments. I hope we get a discount!

Bob

Bob, if it ever get to the point where it is possible to sell, the fine people here will get a discount for the tremendous help and support throughout.

André

bluesblooded
09-10-2020, 05:50 PM
Made no progress today, the spring is still behaving badly.



Oh and a quick update about the resin printer, well I cancelled it... Too many health risks.

Allow me to quote myself:D

Today I got the printer, it was already shipped when my decision of cancelling was taken.

So it made it's way home.

6637

So what would a wise man do: Return it.

Somehow the lid of the box got opened.

6638

and the printer made its way out of it.

6639

But, there is still the health risk factor. My main concern is the air emission when printing. Nasty stuff may find it's way in your lungs. There is also the "Do not spill resin on your skin" warning, but that is manageable.

The stuff in the lungs is a bit more complex. Most people do not care and run these machine in their houses with kids running around. But, I'm kind of chicken and would rather live very long and healthy.

The attraction of running it is still very high though.

I made a sealed enclosure for the printer and will run it in the garage. I should be able to give an update in a couple of days when I find out how to run this machine.

6640

Tomorrow, the 1:6 scale frame will be completed, pictures to follow.

TJones
09-10-2020, 06:58 PM
BB Does your software convert us/imperial to metric or visa versa or both?
And do you need a blueprint with dimensions to make it easier?
I’m not sure how yours works, but the Insite I have you can set the scale either way but you need a set scale to check and it sets the scale to the measured distance to the scale you measure weather it be us or metric.
It sounds like yours is Very advanced as far as that goes.
I’m just wondering if we can get you a scaled blueprint to go off of to make it less time consuming.

bluesblooded
09-10-2020, 07:11 PM
BB Does your software convert us/imperial to metric or visa versa or both?
And do you need a blueprint with dimensions to make it easier?

The software works in both unit. I prefer to work in metric. It's easier to work with fractions. I never remember the decimal value of 17/32*

Yes a blueprint with dimension is the best. In my case I did not have dimension, so I had to look the spec up. Once I knew that the Willys was 132.25in long I needed to find where these dimensions where from.

The software allows you to calibrate the blueprint. I selected two points in the picture and gave it a distance of 335.9mm which is 1/10 of the 132.25 in. The software adjusts the image accordingly. I'm probably off by a max of 1/16in

TJones
09-11-2020, 04:27 AM
Does this help at all?

6641

bluesblooded
09-11-2020, 05:00 AM
Does this help at all?

6641

Yes it will help. To your knowledge, what would be the difference between this model and the MB? I notice the gas cap on the outside of the tub, the tailgate and spare tire on the side. What model would this be? The dimension seems close to the MB model.

Thank you TJ

gmwillys
09-11-2020, 08:39 AM
The drawing looks to be a 2A. The windshield is taller on the 2A, by about three inches compared to the MB. You are correct, the fuel cap was under the driver's seat instead of through the body. Also the rear panel on the MB was solid, with no tailgate.

5JeepsAz
09-11-2020, 03:53 PM
Yeah but here's a possible solution. See, if you make the pieces durable, it could might be that a radio controlled car e-lectric motor would fit inside one of the spaces somewhere. I vote to keep options open, this thing might cross the finish line motorized with almost no fitment problems... I'm a buyer with or without a motor. Love the details man

bluesblooded
09-11-2020, 03:58 PM
The drawing looks to be a 2A. The windshield is taller on the 2A, by about three inches compared to the MB. You are correct, the fuel cap was under the driver's seat instead of through the body. Also the rear panel on the MB was solid, with no tailgate.

Thanks gmwillys, I'll keep those details in mind.

Here's the two tone 1:6 scale frame next to the 1:10 and 1:16 To give you an idea of the size, this table has a diameter of 5 feet or foot I never know which one to use.

6643

Here a couple of close up shots

6644 6645

And here is the first print out of the resin printer. The details are astounding.

6646 6647

But the post-processing is a pain.

Enjoy the weekend!

bluesblooded
09-11-2020, 04:35 PM
Yeah but here's a possible solution. See, if you make the pieces durable, it could might be that a radio controlled car e-lectric motor would fit inside one of the spaces somewhere. I vote to keep options open, this thing might cross the finish line motorized with almost no fitment problems... I'm a buyer with or without a motor. Love the details man

Thanks 5JeepsAz, motorization is not in the plans for now. But the 1:6 scale would make it possible no doubt. Who knows!

bmorgil
09-11-2020, 06:34 PM
Man this project will keep you grinning! How cool, you just cranked out three different sizes.

bluesblooded
09-11-2020, 08:14 PM
Man this project will keep you grinning! How cool, you just cranked out three different sizes.

Thanks Bob, having lots of fun. I'm still experimenting with the resin printer. Tried my first print of the 1:16 scale and it is not so bad. Lost some parts that detached while printing and ended up in the resin container which I will have to strain. Others parts have missing portions. This is due to my lack of knowledge of that technology. I will need to add support or change the orientation.

Out of 13 parts, I got 7 printed. So I'm batting for .538, not bad for a rookie.

This is what it looks like out of the printer.

6648 6649

After cleaning them, they need to be UV cured. They are sitting under a UV light.

Before curing they are very soft to the touch. Similar to cartilage

6650


6651

Sunday I will print the missing parts and report back. I guess that Monday, I'll have to deal with that faulty spring.

okiemark
09-11-2020, 08:22 PM
This is really cool. Thanks for sharing this with us.

5JeepsAz
09-13-2020, 02:03 AM
Assembly before cure? Cure before assembly? Are those screws real or printed? Are you going to cure the tires or leave them squishy? If you leave the seat cushions squishy, will they hold or deteriorate? You don't have to answer. I'll just sit here chattering and watch

bluesblooded
09-13-2020, 06:30 AM
This is really cool. Thanks for sharing this with us.

Thanks okiemark, I'm having a lot of fun sharing my project with all of you.


Assembly before cure? Cure before assembly? Are those screws real or printed? Are you going to cure the tires or leave them squishy? If you leave the seat cushions squishy, will they hold or deteriorate? You don't have to answer. I'll just sit here chattering and watch

5JeepsAz, no worries, fire the questions as they come, it's my pleasure to share what I know with all of you as you all do with me.

Curing is required to make the resin solid and non toxic, so it must be cured before assembling. There is no curing involved with my FDM printer.


Side note: Long story short, the resin printer is going back. it stinks, really stinks, it irritates my eyes, the cleaning process creates a giant waste management problem. It requires a ton of paper towels and water that are both contaminated. Too much trouble for me.

I'm back with my original printer which generates good prints without the hassle. Not as good on smaller scale like 1:16 but I'm willing to live with that


The screws I use are real M2-6 for the 1:10 scale, and M3-10 for the 1:6. No screws for the 1:16 I used filament to align the parts and CA glue

The tires will be printed using a softer filament. I have two options, I have a roll of PETG that is more flexible than usual PETG. I also bought a roll of TPE flexible filament for that exact purpose. It is very flexible like on this picture.

6652

But apparently it's a one of the more difficult material to print with due to its elasticity. It is also a lot more expensive.

I had not thought of using flexible material on the seat cushion so they are squishy. I like the idea, but the only color of flexible material I have is black, I'm not sure it can be painted and keep the squishy feeling without the paint flaking off. I like the idea, thanks for bringing this up, I will look into options I can find for squishy cushions.

I received my army green filament, today I should print some tests and see how it looks.

6653. 6654

bluesblooded
09-15-2020, 08:51 AM
Spent the last 48 hours test print the army green filament.

I was never able to print a complete part. The filament would jam inside the extruder every single time. No matter how much I fiddle with the different parameters, I cannot get it to print. This is what it always end up like.

6657

Furthermore, the green is not looking good to me. It's not close to the olive drab look I'm hoping for. It is also too glossy.

I have some parts on order to modify the printer so it may be able to print this filament, but in the end I won't be satisfied with the looks.

Although I wanted to avoid painting it, I see no other alternatives.

I got my paint shop ready

6658

and some USA Olive Drab primer

6659

Here we have half of this part painted to show the difference in green.

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and the 1:16 white frame with one coat of primer.

6661

You can see that painting highlights the defaults of 3d printing. It accentuates the printing lines as well as highlights all the fuzzy plastic hairs. Therefore it will require more prep work before painting. But I prefer this color. So unless I find some other filament with the correct color, the paint route I will take.

So I'm returning the unopened two spools. No reason to spend twice as much if I'll end up painting it anyways

5JeepsAz
09-16-2020, 11:20 PM
Well mystery solved. Our jeeps don't fit together because they printed wrong. And we are all replicating green slop paint jobs because shiny green is too shiny. Still the coolest build going. Carry on..

bluesblooded
09-17-2020, 05:49 AM
Well mystery solved. Our jeeps don't fit together because they printed wrong. And we are all replicating green slop paint jobs because shiny green is too shiny. Still the coolest build going. Carry on..

Check this out, they printed an aluminum manifold that they are actually going to use on an engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUp3oCGZOzk

It's only a matter of time before you can print your parts with perfect fit. You'll still have to replicate the green slop paint job though.

bmorgil
09-17-2020, 06:14 AM
Wow.... That is a game changer!

bluesblooded
09-17-2020, 06:23 AM
Wow.... That is a game changer!

All you need is good CAD designer ;) and plenty of cash

5JeepsAz
09-17-2020, 11:42 PM
This brings intellectual property into focus. So who owns the car design used for printing, not an auto manufacturer? The designer? Okay. Who's responsible for defects or more specifically design flaws? The printer maker? The guy in his garage printing? Who is held responsible if a printed part flies apart on a highway? Okay, so what's the economy of scale? Some company with a big printer that's fast? Okay, so it's probably cheaper to have a plant where card are made. Sort of like now. So... we get rid of the robots and we install a bunch of giant printers? What happens to the robots? Do they work on used cars? Oh I'm soo confused. I think that's why I joined this vintage forum to begin with. I have a relic that only needs real parts. This little printed Jeep is causing an uproar! I applaud your efforts. What's next on your build? We still waiting for supplies?

bluesblooded
09-18-2020, 06:24 AM
This brings intellectual property into focus. So who owns the car design used for printing, not an auto manufacturer? The designer? Okay. Who's responsible for defects or more specifically design flaws? The printer maker? The guy in his garage printing? Who is held responsible if a printed part flies apart on a highway? Okay, so what's the economy of scale? Some company with a big printer that's fast? Okay, so it's probably cheaper to have a plant where card are made. Sort of like now. So... we get rid of the robots and we install a bunch of giant printers? What happens to the robots? Do they work on used cars? Oh I'm soo confused. I think that's why I joined this vintage forum to begin with. I have a relic that only needs real parts. This little printed Jeep is causing an uproar! I applaud your efforts. What's next on your build? We still waiting for supplies?

Now that I had a few coffees, let's take these one by one.

Nah just kidding. All valid points, but like the repro tub, they will be made somewhere far, they won't fit and all those concerns are out the window or the hole on the sides of the orignal Willys.

Yesterday I got the replacement parts for the printer that was supposed to fix the printing problems of the green filament. After installing it, it did improve to the point where the failed part was almost successful. It released from the bed and continued printing in mid air. Tried another part and again it got off the bed in the middle of the print. Got mad cleaning the printer and threw the green away. The heck with it.

In the meantime, I tried to sort out the spring design failure when scaled down. Spent many days to finally come to the conclusion that it's probably a software bug. I've contacted the company and support groups, but got nowhere fast. I will have to figure out a way to scale down.

I decided to move forward on the design side. Here's a teaser of what is going on

6697

Springs and shocks completed. They are actually printing as I write this. I need to reprint the frame sides and should be able to install everything on the 1:10 scale this afternoon.

I'm feeling bad about those robots that might be layed off. Maybe we should be proactive and start a support group right now before they join Skynet.

bluesblooded
09-18-2020, 01:54 PM
Here are the printed springs

6699

The top most portion is too thin. It's very flimsy where I point with the knife

6700

I've modified this area and merge the first two layers making it twice as thick. But this help me realized that the 1:16 scale is doomed to fail. Printed plastic is not tough enough for small details like these.

Here are the shocks

6701

While I'm printing the frame, I started to look at the front axle design. Then I noticed that there was no way my axle would fit there. The shock is in the way.

6702

I then checked a few pictures and video and realized that my shock is oriented towards the center of the car instead of the back. In this picture we see the shock oriented towards the front bumper.

6703

So back to the drawing board.

Will keep you posted once this snafu is fixed and reprinted.

bluesblooded
09-18-2020, 03:17 PM
Fusion 360 is a joy to work with.

This is my original sketch for the shock bracket. A rectangle on the frame positioned at 118mm from the center point.

6704

I double clicked on the dimension and replace it for 125mm

6705

Once this is done, the software redraw everything that happened after the original creation of the feature in the timeline and takes into account that the new position of this rectangle is now 125mm from the center. And here is the result

6706

The bracket is moved towards the bumper, the shock is redrawn with the proper orientation. I can redraw the core of the axle

6707

and extrude to confirm that it clears the shock.

6708

Need to slice these new parts and print them.

bmorgil
09-18-2020, 03:25 PM
Oh man this is really something to see. It just keeps growing!

okiemark
09-18-2020, 07:40 PM
The nice thing to know is that once you get it right you can save it.

5JeepsAz
09-18-2020, 10:15 PM
To be fair it takes years to work out the bugs on a new vehicle design, so this is par for the course. We just have a front row seat at your work bench. might be we end up with little metal spring steel pins embedded between connectors to strengthen, not sure what your personal tolerance is for creating better tolerances via utilization of non printed parts. Yup. tape and pins and green slop! The exacto knife for scale is interesting... Some of these parts are going to be fragile, so tiny. Maybe print a clear case and put it on the top shelf under full protection!

bluesblooded
09-19-2020, 07:49 AM
Oh man this is really something to see. It just keeps growing!

That's the fun of it, seeing it evolve rather quickly.


The nice thing to know is that once you get it right you can save it.

Exactly! That is the nice thing about digital design. Once you have it right, you can do whatever you want with it. Having the proper tools (CNC, Plasma cutter, metal printer etc...), I could machine one that is twice the size of the real one without any more work on the design side.


To be fair it takes years to work out the bugs on a new vehicle design, so this is par for the course. We just have a front row seat at your work bench. might be we end up with little metal spring steel pins embedded between connectors to strengthen, not sure what your personal tolerance is for creating better tolerances via utilization of non printed parts. Yup. tape and pins and green slop! The exacto knife for scale is interesting... Some of these parts are going to be fragile, so tiny. Maybe print a clear case and put it on the top shelf under full protection!

You are totally right, it takes years for engineers to bring a new design to life. I'm struggling to copy something that was designed so long ago, I can only imagine how complex modern car/mechanic design have evolve over the past 80 years.

There are a few options to strengthen the parts. The easier one is to use more robust filament. ABS, Nylon and some filament engineered for strength already exists. These options will need to be studied. All of them have advantages and drawbacks.

For instance ABS stinks when printed and the fumes are toxic.

Nylon is finicky to print with, it's prone to capture humidity and when it does it prints awful.

Engineered for strength filament is expensive for hobbyist.

Not sure if the Nylon or engineered filament can be painted either. Lots to think about.

On the bright side, newer and tougher PLA is getting on the market regularly. It's just a matter of testing them

For now I will keep overbuilding and cheating when it does not interfere with original look.

One other option that you suggested is to reinforce with steel. I know that some people insert magnets while printing. For instance, they will design a pocket inside the part. They will pause the print where the pocket is halfway done, insert the magnet and resume printing. Using this technique I could embed small metal rods/pins to strengthen the part.

Options are available.

When I say I'm struggling to copy this design, here's the most recent example, Having fixed the front shock and established that the core front axle was fitting, I decided to do the same right away for the rear axle.

Then I noticed that my two axle where not align horizontally.

6709

To get them to align I would need the core of the rear axle to be 1.6 times bigger than the front axle core. That would obviously be apparent when you looked at the two axles. I had two choices, first redo the frame so the front end is lower by 3mm. Second, change the rear springs radius so it is flatter, thus bringing it higher.

I chose the second option.

This is the original rear spring design. A series of circle with the smaller circle at 356mm and the larger one at 368mm

6710 6711

Now how do I get the smaller circle to move up about 3mm. I don't know. I'm sure a mathematician would've come up with the answer and it probably has something to do with PI and all that stuff I was not listening to in school.

My way was a bit longer, I changed the values of the original circles until I got close. It did take a while because the final value of the smaller circle is now 612mm

Now both 10mm axle cores aligns horizontally


6712

As you can see from the picture, it is way flatter. This is one instance where I think I can get away with cheating. And is it really cheating? I don't even know the right dimensions of the spring, I'm working by eye. So most of this Jeep will never be to spec anyways.

Since I need to reprint the spring for toughness, might as well add some features that will be required shortly, namely a way to attach the future axles. Now the U bolts are not an option for me. So I will install a screw from underneath. But I will have fake U-Bolts so it looks the part.

6713

Ok thats enough for this morning.

5JeepsAz
09-20-2020, 12:56 AM
Dude this is great. So the drawing is not correct, because you have to modify your render of it to make the product work. Add materials considerations for strength and flexibility, functionality, whatever. Then the coolest thing I saw was a shadow Jeep in the original. Completed this thing will be so worth it. I'm worried about cost overruns long term, which you'll have to makeup by sales lol. Retirement eh...

bluesblooded
09-20-2020, 09:00 AM
Thanks 5JeepsAz, I'm putting all the details I can to make it worthy of the Willys.

Most hobbies are costly. This one ain't that bad.

3D printing and building the Landy set me back around 350$ in parts and it is not Remote controlled. Had I wanted to make it RC, I would need to spit another 200$.

But it was worth it. It is 1:8 scale and almost 22 inches long.

6719

Took 7 pounds of filament (3 spools) and about two months to print. Three months to assemble because I was drawing every single parts in my CAD to learn the software and intricacies of Drawing for 3D printing.

6720

These are two renderings generated by the software

6721 6722

It's been a tremendous learning experience and is the reason I can tackle this Willys MB project by myself.

Speaking of the MB, here are the new parts being primed before assembly

6723

While they're drying and the printer is spitting out the missing 1:6 scale parts, I'm trying to figure out how to design the rear axle so the wheels turn. I think I'm going to put a 10-15-4 bearing inside the brake drum, but need to figure out how I will assemble all the parts together. I need to plan a little bit ahead so I have a broader picture of the complete rear train assembly.

bluesblooded
09-21-2020, 07:43 AM
Made some nice progress yesterday.

I figured out how I was going to build the rear train assembly to allow the wheels to spins.

It's a few parts, but it should work. I will be able to insert a bearing. Here are two exploded view of the rear axle with the incomplete wheels

6726 6727

I thought you might like to know how I build the wheels.

First I drawn the profile of the back side of the wheel like this. The original two part wheel of the MB is perfect for 3D printing. It will be a breeze mounting the tires on them

6728

Here's the front portion of the wheel profile. (highlighted in blue)

6729

Then I use a cool feature called "Revolve" What it does is revolve the profile along an axis. In the case of the wheels, I revolved them at a 360 degree to create the wheels. Here's a picture of the partial rotation to give you an idea how sweet this tool is.

6730

Without the revolve tool, it would've been a lot more complex to create the wheels.

Still a bit of finition work to do on the wheels and create the gear housing on the axle. This will take place in a couple of days, Then I should be able to print an test if it works.

gmwillys
09-21-2020, 08:29 AM
Looking great! The bearing idea for the wheels is classy. Your attention to detail is first class! The Rover turned out wonderful. Well worth what you have invested, and could easily get a return on your investment if you ever chose to make copies for sale.

bluesblooded
09-21-2020, 09:10 AM
Looking great! The bearing idea for the wheels is classy. Your attention to detail is first class! The Rover turned out wonderful. Well worth what you have invested, and could easily get a return on your investment if you ever chose to make copies for sale.

Thanks gmwillys, I believe all the fun is in the details. The more I can cram in there the happier I am.

Here are all the parts of the 1:10 scale new chassis.

6731

This is where we were with the first prototype. Had to reprint it because of a few minors adjustments. I also printed at the better quality.

6732

Installed the screws on the shackle. and started installing the springs

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bluesblooded
09-21-2020, 09:13 AM
I did not make the hole of the shock's washer big enough. Note taken to fix this in the model.

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Here we have it, the frame and the suspension completed.

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Very happy with the results so far.

gmwillys
09-21-2020, 11:56 AM
Looking good BB. Just think where technology will be in another 10 years.

bmorgil
09-21-2020, 12:06 PM
This is just like stepping into an engineering meeting on the chassis!

gmwillys
09-21-2020, 03:21 PM
This is just like stepping into an engineering meeting on the chassis!

But with nobody arguing who has the better design....

5JeepsAz
09-21-2020, 08:27 PM
I like this. An expert panel at work, providing appropriate guidance to the genius at work. BB did you say this is not actually building the model yet. This is like a dry run? Because there's a market for the first mock up guaranteed. dont be throwing stuff out!

LarrBeard
09-22-2020, 06:44 AM
The only thing in those photos that would give away the fact that we are not looking at a real chassis is the jackstands. They need to be two or three colors, a bit rusty and scratched up.

You could Photoshop that in a picture of GMWilly's driveway and people would believe he has another project under way.

LarrBeard
09-22-2020, 06:45 AM
But with nobody arguing who has the better design....

It's called "Preliminary Concept Review"; Been there; refereed that - several times.

bluesblooded
09-22-2020, 08:03 AM
Looking good BB. Just think where technology will be in another 10 years.

I agree 10 years is quite a long time. 10 years ago, in the hobbyist guitar building space a CNC was an odd view. It was considered cheating. A lot less mojo in a guitar cut by a machine holding the router instead of a human holding the router. Go figure. Anyways, 6 Years ago I built my CNC, sold it in January. CNC is now considered another normal tool in the arsenal of guitar building.

It's the same with 3D printing, as price goes down, and quality of parts goes up, in ten years, a 3D printer will be a common household appliance. People will print parts instead of buying them. Specialized website already offer millions of 3D printable designs for free. No need to learn to design. All you need to do is search and print.


This is just like stepping into an engineering meeting on the chassis!

That is a fun thought.



I like this. An expert panel at work, providing appropriate guidance to the genius at work. BB did you say this is not actually building the model yet. This is like a dry run? Because there's a market for the first mock up guaranteed. dont be throwing stuff out!

It's a good thing I have all of you as expert to help me. I'm only a copycat. Wouldn't be able to come up with a design on my own. Mechanical concept and movement amazes me, but I have little understanding of them.

It's a work in progress. Parts that do no longer fit are discarded. Today I should start printing the current version of the frame in 1:6 scale because I modified the shock brackets. The old ones will be thrown away. I'm keeping the actual crossmembers. So there is no actual mockup to keep. Random pieces here and there being replaced as I go. I'm going to end up with a box full of miscellaneous parts that do not fit together. Are you suggesting I hold to them? I already have discarded the first revision of parts.


The only thing in those photos that would give away the fact that we are not looking at a real chassis is the jackstands. They need to be two or three colors, a bit rusty and scratched up.

You could Photoshop that in a picture of GMWilly's driveway and people would believe he has another project under way.

I need to print bigger jackstand for the 1:6 scale and wanted to paint them red and black. Some people are taking this miniature world very seriously.

Here's a picture of someone's miniature garage tools.

6745

Printed the 1:6 scale spring. I'm still impressed by the difference in size of the two scales. The spring takes all the print bed space. I love that scale because it looks even more realistic.

6746

bluesblooded
09-22-2020, 08:17 AM
Could not resist showing a picture of the 1:6 spring next to the 1:10 frame

6747

I also forgot to mention that it took over 9 hours to print the 4 springs.

5JeepsAz
09-22-2020, 09:26 PM
I was just saying I might buy the mock up, actually.but I didn't want to go there because there are others around here who might want it too! Everytime I see your progress it's amazing.

TJones
09-23-2020, 04:23 AM
What a amazing job your doing BB!!!

bluesblooded
09-23-2020, 06:54 AM
I was just saying I might buy the mock up, actually.but I didn't want to go there because there are others around here who might want it too! Everytime I see your progress it's amazing.

I don't know if my process of gradually upgrading parts will lead me to have a partial mockup at some point. If so, I will keep it. I'm happy that you are appreciating the process of building the MB as much as I am. I appreciate all your feedback. Thanks


What a amazing job your doing BB!!!

Thank you TJ, glad you like it.

I hope I'm not boring you all with all the details about the software. I really like Fusion 360 and it's many features. This time I will tell you about two other features that are time savers.

The first one is the ability to pattern a portion of the design.

As you all know, the MB wheels were made in two parts to allow a tire change in the field with simple tools. I think this next feature only purpose is to align both parts of the wheels together.

6751

I designed a small box to which I also applied some filets to blend it better.

Then I use the pattern command to repeat this feature 4 times around the wheel. On the right you see the parameters I can play with. I chose to pattern a feature. Features are part of the design that you can find in the timeline. The timeline is the bottom row of icons which represent every operations done on the design. In this case, the alignement box (for lack of proper word) is composed of three operations. The first one is the extrusion as a square box as shown in the picture above. The other two are the filet operations. These are called features. So to pattern them, I need to select all three of them for the parts to be repeated properly.

6752

When I click ok, I get 4 identical alignement boxes. This is way better than designing, extruding and applying filet to each of them individually, .

6753

The next command that is great is the Combine tool. It allows to join or cut parts from other parts.

In this case, I added protrusion on the back of the wheel, now the front of the wheel will not slide in place as it will bump on the new alignement boxes. I need to cut the inside rim to allow the box to go in. I could go the hard way and design boxes around with the proper size and cut the front wheel portion. But the Combine tool allows me to select the front wheel as a target for the operation and the back wheel as the tool body. You can see in this picture that the front wheel is in blue and the back wheel is in red.

6754

The red means that it will cut the blue portion.

When I click OK, I have a perfect front wheel that will fit perfectly.

6755

No hassles. The best part is that I can make changes to the alignement box and it will automatically repeat itself around the wheels and cut the front wheel with any modifications I apply to it. That is the inherent beauty of having the history captured at every step of the design. It means that I can go back in time make a change and it will propagate in the future. Very cool tool.

bluesblooded
09-23-2020, 07:00 AM
I used the same pattern process to make the screw holes that will keep the two part of the wheels together.

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I also started to work on the gear housing. As I mentioned in one the earlier post this is one of the parts I think will be harder to model.

This is what I have so far. You can see the rough primitive shapes that will make up the housing.

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bluesblooded
09-23-2020, 08:24 AM
I have a question for you Willys experts.

The look of rear axle has been bothering me since the start.

6760

It's seems it looks too fat. I've given it a diameter of 10mm, so the 1:1 dimension would be 100mm or a little less than 4 inches. Am I in the ball park?

I've made a few tests like here it is with 8mm or in 1:1 scale 3 1/8in

6761

The downside is that you can see in the timeline that changing the size to 8mm gives a bunch of errors I need to address (yellow and red).

If 8mm is the way to go, I have a couple of options.

If I rebuild the axle at 8mm, I need to change the spring curvature because as you can see, it would not touch the bottom of the spring and will need to fix whatever errors that will come down the line.

6762

One cheat I could do that would keep the spring as is and not provoke any kind of errors down the timeline would be to leave it at 10mm as it is but thin it down between the gear housing and the brackets and between the brackets and the wheels. Keeping the 10mm diameter at the spring only. Like if I added a 2mm bushing around the axle at the spring location. Something like this.

6763

If someone could give me the proper diameter of the axle, it would help me make the best decision to handle this.

bmorgil
09-23-2020, 08:39 AM
bb, the MB had a Dana model 27 in the rear. It has an outside AXLE TUBE diameter of approx 63.5mm. The front axle is a model 25 and shares the same basic dimensions.The tube is the component pressed into the center section. It is where the U-Bolts go over to hold the axle to the spring. Is this the dimension you are looking for? If so, no your not in the ballpark!

Though it looks cool with that big fat tube!

bluesblooded
09-23-2020, 10:58 AM
bb, the MB had a Dana model 27 in the rear. It has an outside AXLE TUBE diameter of approx 63.5mm. The front axle is a model 25 and shares the same basic dimensions.The tube is the component pressed into the center section. It is where the U-Bolts go over to hold the axle to the spring. Is this the dimension you are looking for? If so, no your not in the ballpark!

Though it looks cool with that big fat tube!

Thanks Bob, just to be certain, the 63.5mm is the outside diameter of the tube between the two arrows I've added to your picture?

6765

That is quite skinny compared to my fat tube. Looks like I'm heading towards an overall of the springs and whatever came after.

To your knowledge does the Dana 25 for the front axle share the same tube dimension?

Finally where did you get your dimension, is this some place I could refer to when in need of a dimension?

Thanks again

bmorgil
09-23-2020, 11:12 AM
Yes bb the outside diameter of the axle tube where your arrows point, is 63.5mm. Same dimensions on the front 25.

I was at Dana for a long time, what would you like to know about Dana Axles and Driveshafts! I have a few things laying about, however I know that the older models 25,27,30,41 and 44 all have 2 1/2" outside diameter axle tubes. The I.D changed as load requirement changed. Increases in load capacity requirements changes the I.D. and the models. The outside however is 2 1/2" on all the older stuff model 44 and below. On the newer stuff you might find up to 2 7/8" outside. But on the MB 2 1/2".

bluesblooded
09-23-2020, 11:20 AM
Yes bb the outside diameter of the axle tube where your arrows point, is 63.5mm.

I was at Dana for a long time, what would you like to know about Dana Axles and Driveshafts! I have a few things laying about, however I know that the older models 25,27,30,41 and 44 all have 2 1/2" outside diameter axle tubes. The I.D changed as load requirement changed. Increases in load capacity requirements changes the I.D. and the models. The outside however is 2 1/2" on all the older stuff model 44 and below.


Wow, I cannot ask for a more accurate source for this. If I have other questions regarding the axle, I'll ask you. Thanks.

bluesblooded
09-23-2020, 02:00 PM
Spent a couple of hours changing the spring curvature and axle size.

It is now accurate at 63.5mm

I think it looks better.

6766 6767

Thanks bmorgil for the info, it's truly appreciated.

Now back to printing the new springs and shorter shocks

bmorgil
09-23-2020, 02:49 PM
Looking correct now bb. But I did like the "high performance " look of the 4 inch!

bluesblooded
09-24-2020, 01:18 PM
Looking correct now bb. But I did like the "high performance " look of the 4 inch!

Why not in a pimped version.

My first prototype of the rear axle is ready to print, I think...


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It's going to be split in several parts to facilitate printing and installing of a bearing and shaft. It will not be linked to the wheels but the driving shaft will be able to spin.

6783 6784

Should print it tomorrow and see how all the parts fit together.

bmorgil
09-24-2020, 05:17 PM
How "sick" do you want to get? I can send you a dimensional on the end yokes and driveshaft components.

bluesblooded
09-24-2020, 05:51 PM
How "sick" do you want to get? I can send you a dimensional on the end yokes and driveshaft components.


I'll take anything you have. Don't know if it will get too small to print, but the more accurate the better. Thanks!

bluesblooded
09-25-2020, 11:49 AM
I printed all the parts of the axle and the wheels.

The axle needs some tolerance to be added. The bearing will not fit and the parts do not interlock together well. Modifications are done and a complete reprint of the axle is underway.

The wheels on the other hand looks to be perfect. I don't know how they will fit on the axle, but I believe we are on the right track.

6785 6786

I also modeled the tires.

6787

At this point, I will take a break of modeling and will make sure that everything so far is printed and assembled to confirm the fit, both in 1:10 and 1:6 scale.

5JeepsAz
09-25-2020, 05:15 PM
Remarkable. I tell people about how great this build is.

bluesblooded
09-26-2020, 12:17 PM
Remarkable. I tell people about how great this build is.

Thanks Az, very nice of you.

Yesterday was spent fine tuning the fitment of the moving parts.

Here's the driving shaft with the bearing ready to be fitted in the gear housing.

6788

This is the wheel shaft in its bearing

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This will be in turn attached to the drum that will interface with the wheel*.

6791

This whole assembly will be attached to the axle

6792

bluesblooded
09-26-2020, 12:22 PM
Inserted the screws for the axle and spring

6793

To realize that it would not slip in. So I had to open up the springs

6794

To finally figure that I did all this work on the front side while I only have the rear axle. :rolleyes:

A couple of minutes later, everything is in it's proper place.

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and a sneak peak at a tire being printed.

6797

should receive M2-3 mm screws tomorrow, Will be able to finish assembling the rear train.

okiemark
09-26-2020, 08:06 PM
If we just had something like that when we were kids.

bluesblooded
09-27-2020, 07:51 AM
If we just had something like that when we were kids.

That would've been cool. I did like my Mecano game when I was young.

The tire did not come out as well as I wanted. One side is perfect the other is crappy.

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So I came up with this plan

6800

Made a timelapse of the design so far if you are curious to see how that goes. You can speed up the video to 1.5 the usual speed. It will be shorter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtjqffbO4F4

bluesblooded
09-27-2020, 04:33 PM
Got my M2-3 screws late this afternoon.

6801

I assembled the whole rear end. Very happy with the result.:D:D

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The 1:6 scale will print all week. For example, a tire will take 9 hours to print. I will start modeling the front axle.

bmorgil
09-27-2020, 05:29 PM
This is an epic to say the least! A tremendous amount of work you are putting in.

5JeepsAz
09-27-2020, 08:43 PM
Tires!

Cool vid. ... rendering ... rendering ... rendering...

bmorgil
09-28-2020, 08:51 AM
bb.... here might be more than you want or, you may want more. Let me know. This is a basic IDEA of what the driveshafts are made up like. I think the most important thing for you will be the diameter of the driveshafts. They were VERY small in diameter. A trend that makes the original driveshafts easy to spot. This is because by modern engineering standards, they should have been larger in diameter. Most replacements are much larger in diameter as the small 1.25" outside diameter .120" wall tubing is not real available anymore. Now a day's we would call classic Jeep Driveshafts PTO shafts or "Power Take Off". If you get the driveshaft diameter wrong a purist will spot that right away!

I had to take a photo. The file is to big for the forum. PM your email and I will send it to you in a Word Doc.

bluesblooded
09-28-2020, 09:58 AM
This is an epic to say the least! A tremendous amount of work you are putting in.

Thanks, I've been enjoying myself seeing it coming to shape step by step.


Tires!

Cool vid. ... rendering ... rendering ... rendering...

Just for you AZ

6814 6815 6816 6817


bb.... here might be more than you want or, you may want more. Let me know. This is a basic IDEA of what the driveshafts are made up like. I think the most important thing for you will be the diameter of the driveshafts. They were VERY small in diameter. A trend that makes the original driveshafts easy to spot. This is because by modern engineering standards, they should have been larger in diameter. Most replacements are much larger in diameter as the small 1.25" outside diameter .120" wall tubing is not real available anymore. Now a day's we would call classic Jeep Driveshafts PTO shafts or "Power Take Off". If you get the driveshaft diameter wrong a purist will spot that right away!

I had to take a photo. The file is to big for the forum. PM your email and I will send it to you in a Word Doc.

bmorgil, the dimensions will help me a lot, thank you!

bluesblooded
09-28-2020, 04:20 PM
bmorgil, would you happen to know the size of the sphere end of the front axle? I am eyeballing it at twice the size of the axle so I was going for a 5in diameter sphere. Thanks!

bmorgil
09-28-2020, 06:16 PM
It's about 6" on the max. depending on where you are measuring.

bluesblooded
09-28-2020, 06:27 PM
It's about 6" on the max. depending on where you are measuring.

Thank you bmorgil, very helpful.

bluesblooded
09-30-2020, 01:34 PM
Made some progress on the front axle.

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Can't wait to see if the wheels will spin and turn. The angle of turn is quite low. Don't know if that is the case with the real ones, but this one won't turn on a dime

I tested a new filament today. its the ecotough military green. I printed the 1:6 scale wheels with it and is going to be my filament of choice when the design is completed.

The color is a bit lighter then the primer, but looks great. The low sheen is also perfect for my purpose and the best part, no paint job.

6823

I ordered 5 more spools while they have supplies. That company is known to change there product line and colors with what sells. This may be the only spools I ever get. Doing a last test print to be certain and then I'm back on the cheap stuff that will be painted until the final design.

bmorgil
09-30-2020, 03:45 PM
Well if you have a way to lay it out, the advertised turning radius was 18 feet.

I would think "Olive Drab Green" would be one of those colors they would have a lot of!

It is very similar to putting one together for real, this project of yours. Just a lot harder! I cant even get my printer to work.

bluesblooded
09-30-2020, 05:12 PM
Thanks bmorgil, I searched online for a turning radius calculator

They say you divide the wheelbase by the sin of the angle of steer

6826

I can steer 27 degree before I hit anything

80 / (27 sin) =
80/.453=
176 inches or 14.6 feet.

So I have more radius than I thought

There is plenty of so called "olive drab" but most of them are way too green and are too glossy. This is one is not the perfect shade of Olive drab, but at least it's almost mat.

bmorgil
09-30-2020, 06:12 PM
The turning radius was set with a stop bolt, based on how much angle the Universal Joint could take. You are definitely in the ball park. If you had Bendix joints the max angle is 23 deg.. If you had Rzeppa joints it was 29 deg and Spicer's were 27 1/2 deg.. So you have a MB, it would have had Bendix. However it could have had any of the 3. All were available, all will work and there was a war on. "Never say Willys Never"

bluesblooded
10-01-2020, 05:55 AM
bmorgil, this is fascinating information. I'm learning so much, I love it. Let's go with Bendix joints and 23 deg. Thanks!

bluesblooded
10-03-2020, 01:36 PM
The front axle is now complete.

The wheels steer and turn. Very happy, it worked on the first try.

Here's a bunch of pictures of the parts and the assembly.

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bluesblooded
10-03-2020, 01:37 PM
6834 6835 6836 6837 6838

bluesblooded
10-03-2020, 01:38 PM
and the completed view

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bmorgil
10-03-2020, 02:59 PM
Oh man! Too sexy! I cannot believe the way this thing is just morphing into a really intricate scale MB.

5JeepsAz
10-03-2020, 08:07 PM
Coming along! Hey on zooming in I can't see the bendex logo.wheres the bendex logo at? :) pS you need to put on all the logos and all the stickers or it could be banishment. And the shovel.

bluesblooded
10-04-2020, 07:05 AM
Oh man! Too sexy! I cannot believe the way this thing is just morphing into a really intricate scale MB.

Thanks bmorgil!


Coming along! Hey on zooming in I can't see the bendex logo.wheres the bendex logo at? :) pS you need to put on all the logos and all the stickers or it could be banishment. And the shovel.

Don't stock up on tar and feathers just yet ;)


Next order of business will be the transfer case and driveshafts. Thanks to bmorgil I have great info on the driveshaft.

I wonder what are the rough dimensions of the transfer case. If you have an idea, it would help me. It does not need to be precise, a ballpark dimension will be ok. Oh and I don't mean 400 feet at the center field fence.

6842

bmorgil
10-04-2020, 07:56 AM
The Dana 18 is approximately 8 1/2" long or thick. (Bumper to bumper) and about 12" wide (frame rail to frame rail). and about 8" high. There are a lot of "bumps" these are averages. These dimensions are from second base.

bluesblooded
10-04-2020, 07:58 AM
The Dana 18 is approximately 8 1/2" long or thick. (Bumper to bumper) and about 12" wide (frame rail to frame rail). and about 8" high. There are a lot of "bumps" these are averages. These dimensions are from second base.

lol, thanks bmorgil, I will use these, much better than guestimate

okiemark
10-05-2020, 08:57 AM
This is fascinating to follow!

LarrBeard
10-05-2020, 02:22 PM
The tires are unreal...

gmwillys
10-05-2020, 03:43 PM
In time, he will be able to print out a running miniature Go Devil engine. Looking great on the work done. I love the front axle details!

bluesblooded
10-05-2020, 04:07 PM
This is fascinating to follow!

Thank you Mark!


The tires are unreal...

They do look good. check the picture bellow, I've printed red and black jackstand for the 1:6 scale



In time, he will be able to print out a running miniature Go Devil engine. Looking great on the work done. I love the front axle details!

That would be cool right! Thanks GM!

I want to catch up with the 1:6 scale. There is a lot of small adjustment to make, but it's getting closer. here's a sneak peak of what it looks like.

6843

5JeepsAz
10-05-2020, 11:19 PM
This just makes me smile. It may be the same smile as you get when driving or seeing a vintage jeep on the road, but better because it gives the dreamy kid feeling, just wondering where it will go.

Any update on the 'ink'? You were buying bulk in case they change the formula... Sorry if I missed the update on that

mrgrtt123
10-05-2020, 11:31 PM
6834 6835 6836 6837 6838

The progress looks good, I can't wait how it will turn out.

bluesblooded
10-06-2020, 07:36 AM
This just makes me smile. It may be the same smile as you get when driving or seeing a vintage jeep on the road, but better because it gives the dreamy kid feeling, just wondering where it will go.

Any update on the 'ink'? You were buying bulk in case they change the formula... Sorry if I missed the update on that

I'm happy you are appreciating the build. I received the filament spools yesterday, they all look the same. I spoke with the company rep and they confirmed that they will do another batch depending on how this one sells or not. So these might be the only ones I'll ever have. I sure hope not because I love the color, the sheen and it prints really well. Fingers crossed

6866




The progress looks good, I can't wait how it will turn out.

Thanks mrgrtt, I too can't wait. I spend at least 5 to 6 hours a day on the project to have a steady progression. The printer is printing 12 hours a day spitting out parts. I'm even contemplating the idea of getting another printer to speed things up.

bluesblooded
10-10-2020, 01:09 PM
Modeled the transfer case, yokes, universal joints, driving shafts and transmission. This as been the hardest parts to model thus far. I restarted countless times. I think it looks all right. Will start printing and should see if the parts make sense once installed

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bmorgil
10-10-2020, 03:11 PM
Looking great! Love the drive shafts! The Dana Diamond on the T-Case is a nice touch. Technically it says "Spicer" inside the diamond. Dana was the parent company.

bluesblooded
10-10-2020, 03:30 PM
Looking great! Love the drive shafts! The Dana Diamond on the T-Case is a nice touch. Technically it says "Spicer" inside the diamond. Dana was the parent company.

Thanks bmorgil, I saw pictures of both DANA and SPICER written on the case. I did not know which to choose. I'll change it to SPICER


6888

bmorgil
10-10-2020, 03:56 PM
Spicer was on its own until 1946 when Charles Dana "Took over". Then the Dana name was put on a lot of things slowly phasing the Spicer name out. I think that is a picture of a model 20 you have there. I don't think I have ever seen a Dana 18 with Dana on the case. The 20 and 300 do have Dana on the case. But ya never know!

5JeepsAz
10-11-2020, 12:29 AM
Ask to make sure these are period correct, I do not know. Looking forward to seeing if it fits.

bluesblooded
10-11-2020, 08:56 AM
Spicer was on its own until 1946 when Charles Dana "Took over". Then the Dana name was put on a lot of things slowly phasing the Spicer name out. I think that is a picture of a model 20 you have there. I don't think I have ever seen a Dana 18 with Dana on the case. The 20 and 300 do have Dana on the case. But ya never know!

Thanks, I love this info. Spicer it is now. I could not find a similar font, therefore, I do not have the fancy ends of the S

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Ask to make sure these are period correct, I do not know. Looking forward to seeing if it fits.

Thanks, your second picture shows an insane amount of shifters. I wonder what they do.

bmorgil
10-11-2020, 12:48 PM
Classic on the Spicer logo! Clarence Spicer is no doubt grinning.

That is a "full load" in the second picture. The Transmission, The P.T.O. shifter, Transfer case shifters, and then in the rear it looks like an overdrive in the P.T.O. drive, with a P.T.O..

bluesblooded
10-11-2020, 01:40 PM
Thanks, I would have a lot of trouble managing that many shifters.

It's a shame but the Spicer does not print out. The letters are too small for the 0.4mm nozzle.

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I hope it will print on the 1:6 scale

5JeepsAz
10-11-2020, 02:29 PM
What you've got it cool enough. Here's another way, a name plate. And a cool vintage add for your mini folder with mini docs that goes in the mini toolbox. lol. Keep on printing!

bluesblooded
10-11-2020, 03:17 PM
Az, your enthusiasm is contagious!

I printed the universal joints and the yokes. I hope these are the smallest parts because I don't see how I could assemble them if they were smaller.

6901

These will be assembled using the smallest screws I have: M2-3mm. 4 of them on every universal joint. The heads of the screw will clash a bit because they will look disproportionate with the rest. They will look better on the 1:6 scale.

bmorgil
10-12-2020, 06:33 AM
The "Diamond" is good enough on the logo. Everyone who knows, knows what it stands for. You never see this much detail in a functioning model. I am just smiling over those U-Joints, I am certain I won't be the only one!

gmwillys
10-12-2020, 08:10 AM
I inherited a Tucker Torpedo model that was put out by one of the premier auto modeler companies that you see in the back of magazines or Sunday paper. It isn't in the same zip code to the amount of precision to what you have accomplished. Well done!

okiemark
10-12-2020, 08:35 AM
Those U-joints could almost be called "cute".

bluesblooded
10-13-2020, 01:03 PM
The "Diamond" is good enough on the logo. Everyone who knows, knows what it stands for. You never see this much detail in a functioning model. I am just smiling over those U-Joints, I am certain I won't be the only one!

Thanks bmorgil, I ordered a 0.25mm nozzle, maybe I will be able to print the Spicer name. The details of the smaller parts should be better as well.


I inherited a Tucker Torpedo model that was put out by one of the premier auto modeler companies that you see in the back of magazines or Sunday paper. It isn't in the same zip code to the amount of precision to what you have accomplished. Well done!

Thanks gmwillys, happy to see that I'm paying enough attention to details.


Those U-joints could almost be called "cute".

:cool:

I've completed the priming of the parts and assembled them. The screws on the yokes/ujoints aren't as bas as I was expecting.

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I bought a second printer this morning. I do not expect to make any progress on the modeling side as I will need to assemble and tune the new printer.

bmorgil
10-13-2020, 03:59 PM
Man that is so freekin' special!

okiemark
10-13-2020, 07:18 PM
Pretty darn slick

gmwillys
10-13-2020, 07:34 PM
Multiple printers going on at once.... If you charged admission, we would pay to sit and watch the parts coming to life. Looks great as usual.

5JeepsAz
10-13-2020, 09:28 PM
So glad everyone is into this build. I look forward to the daily progress, a hilight!!! But. You know me. I got opinions. Are those shifters set in a hole with a rubber grommet so they move around or what? I mean the little gi Joe dude has to be able to shift. Or better yet, the gi jane has to shift for him so he can keep his arm around.

bmorgil
10-14-2020, 05:25 AM
5Jeeps, your imagination is matched only by your ability to find those old cool things you keep coming up with and posting! The "little GI Joe dude"!

bb, this is like watching Jurassic Park.

5JeepsAz
10-14-2020, 09:48 PM
Look man, this thing is going places. It says world adventrues

gmwillys
10-15-2020, 03:17 AM
Might need to print a scale Pelago in uniform, surrounded by the dancing girls. Then don't forget Jake the Retriever.

bluesblooded
10-15-2020, 05:05 AM
Thank you Guys!

If I may ask, what is a Pelago in uniform?

bmorgil
10-15-2020, 06:13 AM
"what is a Pelago in uniform? "

A decorated Veteran, a hero, a friend to all!

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?1421-well-the-darn-thing-is-out

bluesblooded
10-15-2020, 06:45 AM
Thanks, this epic thread is on my list of read. I was not aware of his history, I appreciate our freedom and way of living, thank you Pelago and all the veterans!

5JeepsAz
10-18-2020, 02:31 PM
Pelago is the kind of man one hopes to meet, hopes to know, hopes to be like should the need arise. I've met a few heroes and those interactions make me a better version of myself daily, even years later. It's good to know we have Americans like that for the rest of us.

Hey, here's a picture for phase three of this particular awesome build!

5JeepsAz
10-23-2020, 08:09 PM
So how's it going?

bluesblooded
10-23-2020, 09:37 PM
So how's it going?

Well last week has been a colossal waste of time.

I received my new printer and assembled it. Here are partial build pictures of the new printer

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After building it, it would not power on. Searched on google and finally got it to start.

Then I struggled for 4 days to print anything with it.

This was my only successful print.

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After a week, I unassembled it and shipped it back to the manufacturer.

Meanwhile I also troubleshooted issues with my first printer. Remember the first army green filament I purchased, I was unable to print with it. It would always clog in the nozzle on every print. Well I got the same issue with a another brand of filament. So I decided to contact the company. The printer and the army green filament is from the same company. So someone could assume that they would work well together. We've been emailing daily with things to test to no avail. I did a lot of research and I may have found the culprit. Insufficient air flow to cool the upper part of the heat block. I installed a temporary fan and was able to print stuff with the green filament. But not the same luck with the other filament. I ordered the correct fan and received it today. I will install it tomorrow afternoon and do some more testing to see if at least my first printer is now working as it should.

I also got around to modeling a little bit. I started on the pedals. This is revision 2

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It's hard to tell if they are the right size and in the right position. They seem odd to me. I think the pedal is too high, but it's hard to tell.

After that I planned to work on the steering wheel

But now I'm uncertain. I think I should probably start working on the body itself to see how things will fit together.

I was incline to forget the pedals and steering and move ahead in this order

Front grill
Radiator
Fenders
Firewall
Hood
Tub

I am kind of lost as where to go from here, am I going at it backwards?

I'm trying to figure out the best order which will reduce the amount of revision done to dependent parts. Like these pedals. They might be too long, too short, too far from the firewall, I have no clue. So I'm spending a lot of hours on them and may need to redo them from scratch once I do the body work.

Any suggestions what the next logical steps should be are welcome.

bmorgil
10-24-2020, 06:47 AM
BB, clearly you are in a unique situation but here is how it goes together for most. You get it to a rolling chassis, engine power train and all. In other words if you could find a way to sit behind the wheel, you could drive it. Then stating in the front with the grill, then fenders then tub and button up the rest.

An oversimplification but that is the way they went down the assembly line. I don't think you will be able to dial in the pedals and what not till you get the tub on. They have to be "adjusted" in a real one all the time to fit just right. Many don't realize the pedal arms are forged and they are malleable to some extent. Slight bending (or reprogramming in your case! ) to get a perfect fit is not uncommon.

bluesblooded
10-24-2020, 05:35 PM
BB, clearly you are in a unique situation but here is how it goes together for most. You get it to a rolling chassis, engine power train and all. In other words if you could find a way to sit behind the wheel, you could drive it. Then stating in the front with the grill, then fenders then tub and button up the rest.

An oversimplification but that is the way they went down the assembly line. I don't think you will be able to dial in the pedals and what not till you get the tub on. They have to be "adjusted" in a real one all the time to fit just right. Many don't realize the pedal arms are forged and they are malleable to some extent. Slight bending (or reprogramming in your case! ) to get a perfect fit is not uncommon.


Thanks BMorgil, that will be the plan. Looking forward to the next step, the front grill.

5JeepsAz
10-24-2020, 09:02 PM
As a friend on here told me once, not a waste, that's called huge progress! Except the cat.i don't want to detail the entire build thread, but I'm a dog person. Why a cat, man? I mean, couldn't it have been a chuckwalla or something? Jeez. Okay. So for now, what we have now your assembly line is virtual, meaning order is unfixed. If you print a part and it needs to wait, you develop a bin for parts. Then, just like the original guys, when you need a part of for no apparent reason you go to the parts bin and apply the part. If it doesn't fit, you are allowed to mallet or modify it. Either way, the Jeep build continues apace. So I don't detect any flaws in your process. Seems about normal for jeep builds. Good work man!

bluesblooded
10-25-2020, 07:24 AM
The cat was the default test print that came with the printer.

I like the concept of the virtual assembly line and the parts bin. I got a smaller nozzle 0.25mm for finer detailed parts and a bigger nozzle 0.8m for faster printing of larger parts. It will be similar to retooling a part of the manufacturing line to get the finer details parts, once I have enough of them, they'll be stored away until they are needed. Then moving to the larger nozzle for mass productions of bigger parts.

If I do get to the point where I purchase a decent second printer, the printers might be dedicated to specific nozzle sizes and jobs.

5JeepsAz
10-25-2020, 11:55 AM
So interesting the nozzle situation. The other thing about being a one man shop by comparison to the past is that this manufacturing problem would have been referred to a team put together just to resolve that one issue and return with a workaround whereas you get bogged down until it works for you. Also true, dudes set aside projects for months at a time due to waiting on a part, tool, cash, or competent approach, weather, or help. Maybe just keep your eyes on the prize and build in weeks for diversions, celebratory spectacles, and potholes so your completion timelines aren't tied solely to one part of the process. Not that you need any of this from me, just that your willy's jeep build has captured my imagination so I appreciate the chance to comment. This build is awesome!

bluesblooded
10-25-2020, 02:14 PM
I'm always happy to read comments from you, bmorgil, gmwillys and everybody who have chimed in so far. You all help me move forward. I see that I'm not the only one excited about this project. It helps me get through the hurdles that seem to be more frequent as I move along.

My obsession about being able to scale it from 1:10 to 1:6 by changing a couple of parameters is driving me nuts.

I started the front grill, not very complicated but so cool to see come alive this signature piece

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After every step, I check to make sure it behaves properly when I scale it to 1:6. It did not go so well:

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When I'm lucky, it is due to some mishandling of dimensions. Like here

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The two highlighted dimensions were the reason it was wrong. An easy fix that only took 10 minutes to sort out.

But other times like with the pedals, I need to rebuild from scratch because it makes no sense whatsoever. My first version would twist and turn in every possible directions. I changed the geometry and basic shapes and I got a version where it was scaling perfectly. But I was not happy with the size and location.

I changed them to the third version, and again they are behaving badly. Here's a list of all the errors that are occurring when I scale to 1:6.

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Except for the first one that is related to the tire, all the others are related to the new revision of the pedals. After the body is completed, I will revisit them from scratch and try to figure out where I went wrong.

You can also see in the images things that are scaled properly but out of position: The sphere ends of the shifters, the Spicer logo in the middle of nowhere, the pedals foot rest have turned on themselves 180 degree and the drive shafts are not in their yokes.

Had I decided to go with only one scale, I would saved a bunch of times, but then I would've missed on a great learning experience.

5JeepsAz
10-25-2020, 08:56 PM
Three dimensional chess. Thunderdome. Swimming in shark infested waters. The answer is always the same. Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side... One foot in front. Of the other!

bluesblooded
10-26-2020, 10:04 AM
:rolleyes:

The 1:6 scale is finally caught up with the 1:10. Here a some pics

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bluesblooded
10-26-2020, 10:06 AM
And some more with the 1:8 Rover to give a taste of the sizes

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5JeepsAz
10-26-2020, 11:10 PM
Awesome. It seems like everything matters. Color, definition, fitment.

LarrBeard
10-27-2020, 11:32 AM
I see the same things when I am laying out printed wiring boards for projects. Components will end up sitting half-way off the board or traces will start on the board at their proper location and wander off into space at some location beyond the board perimeter.

Almost always, it ends up being something I did wrong, misinterpreted or very commonly, I fat-fingered a key entering a parameter.

Your project is absolutely fascinating!

bluesblooded
10-28-2020, 08:17 AM
Awesome. It seems like everything matters. Color, definition, fitment.

Thanks Az!


I see the same things when I am laying out printed wiring boards for projects. Components will end up sitting half-way off the board or traces will start on the board at their proper location and wander off into space at some location beyond the board perimeter.

Almost always, it ends up being something I did wrong, misinterpreted or very commonly, I fat-fingered a key entering a parameter.

Your project is absolutely fascinating!

Thanks Larry, you are right about most of the errors being on the users side. What software do you use for designing your PCB? I used Eagle free edition for a short while. Was working great. They've been purchased by Autodesk and I know that you can design electronics directly in Fusion 360 nowadays, but I don't think it is available in the personal free version of Fusion.

Added some details to the front grill and started a preliminary version of the fenders.

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bluesblooded
10-28-2020, 08:21 AM
Here are some pictures of the printed parts.

They are not primed yet since I'm not certain these will be the final versions.

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Will now model the firewall portion of the tub. I have to figure out if it will be printable in one shot for the 1:6 scale or if I need to divide it in two parts.

LarrBeard
10-28-2020, 03:50 PM
[QUOTE=bluesblooded;14478]Thanks Az!



Thanks Larry, you are right about most of the errors being on the users side. What software do you use for designing your PCB?

I am not a very accomplished user. I use ExpressSCH for my schematic design and either ExpressPCB or ExpressPCB Plus for the board layout. There are any number of circuit simulators that handle my relatively simple stuff (no microwave or RF designs...)