New member here with a new to me Willys Jeep

[BobBoyce]

A few weeks ago, I bought an unknown curiosity. According to the title supplied, it is a 1961 Willys Jeep. According to information on the plate, it is apparently a 1960 CJ5, made by Willy's Motors, Inc. Looking at it visually, it is an oddity! I uploaded 5 images of it. Any ideas on what was added to enclose the Jeep like this? It kinda looks like the cab of an old pickup truck with the original rear window cut out and replaced with the sliding rear window from a small pickup truck. A portion of the smaller original opening is visible under the center of the top edge of the rubber gasket.

It has the Hurricane F134 engine with what matches photos of a Solex single barrel carb. We drained 2 gallons of water and 4 gallons of bad gasoline from the fuel tank and lines, removed the tank, scrubbed it out, reinstalled it, and filled it with new gasoline. Replaced the fuel lines and filters, then turned attention to the carb. The float bowl had obviously been filled with water previously, as it was corroded and the float stuck down. I worked it loose, and my friend used a brass bristled brush on it while I cleaned out the float valve, drain plugs, and passageways that I could find. When finished, it would fill up the float chamber with fuel and turn off the fuel flow as designed. It had been converted to 12V, so bought a new battery. I had to clean out the accel pump openings and passageways in order to restore operation to the accel pump. A full replacement of all ignition components allowed it to fire off. It still suffers from idle circuit and high speed circuit flow issues, most likely corrosion in uninspected orifices. Time for a full rebuild on the carb. I bought a rebuild kit, but the jeep is at my friends shop, hundreds of miles away from TN. I talked to the seller (a car collector) to find out what else he has, and ended up closing another deal on a 1952 M38A1 that had been partsed out. My friend told me that it had been delivered, but I have no photos of it yet. He has another half dozen military vehicles growing rust, as well as several dozens of vehicles from the 20s on up to and beyond the musclecar era.

Bob

[bmorgil]

Welcome Bob! A nice top on that. It looks custom made. There were some tops like that made by various companies. gmwillys or LarrBeard might know.

Unless your in love with that Solex carb, I wouldn't put a lot of money into it. You would be better off finding a Carter for it. Often a brand new Solex will exhibit idle and part throttle issues all on its own.

[BobBoyce]

Welcome Bob! A nice top on that. It looks custom made. There were some tops like that made by various companies. gmwillys or LarrBeard might know.

Unless your in love with that Solex carb, I wouldn't put a lot of money into it. You would be better off finding a Carter for it. Often a brand new Solex will exhibit idle and part throttle issues all on its own.
Thank you Bob. While waiting to have my account activated, I spent much of the weekend reading threads. I was unable to see photos until today, so I went back and looked at photos of other members vehicles that I had read the threads about.

No love for the Solex, it was what the engine had on it. I was just trying to keep it original at the time. The original intent was a small 4WD to use for accessing the mountaintop at the back of my property. The clay ground here gets really slick when the humidity gets high, which is most of the time here in the smokey mountains. After finding rusted through panels in the passenger side floor and rear, I bought a replacement body kit. The trucking company that delivered the body transported it with the crate laying on its side. Needless to say, the damage to the new body was found to be unacceptable once the damaged crate was removed by the body shop that it had been shipped to. I'll attach a few photos of the damage. My body shop guy wants to just fix it and move on. If I had not paid more for that body than I paid for both jeeps, I would not be so upset. LOL

6852 6853 6854 6855 6856

The M38A1 is what I chose for a chassis for a project vehicle. It was delivered to the body shop, and I'm trying to get over there and get my hands dirty stripping it down to the frame.

Bob

[gmwillys]

Welcome Bob!

Your '60 doesn't look bad at all! The top looks partially home made with some bits of aftermarket bones. Check out EWillys.Com. David Eihler has spent years gathering aftermarket information on all things Willys. Post a picture of the cab, and he just might have all the information on what and where the cab was made.

A parts source that I strongly recommend, and is close to your location is 1/4 ton and Military.com. They are located in North Georgia, just south of Chattanooga. I buy a lot of NOS parts from them for both my military projects and my own. Plus they are close to my location, and they ship to my door within a day or so. Kaiser Willys is my second go to, but number one for their sheet metal repair panels.

We look forward to seeing your A1 purchase as well. Check out Pelago and his most visited page on this forum of his journey of his M38a1. His is "The darn thing is out" in the restoration section.

[BobBoyce]

Thank you gm. Already been reading Pelagos thread. Now that I can see the pictures, it gives it a whole new dimension! Will check out that site. Twice I chose not to bid on a surplus Army HumVee that had caught my interest a month ago. My instinct warned me away, and the first high bidder bailed. It was partsed out too much but not shown in photos first time listed, added photos second time around showed that.

[gmwillys]

Humvees are dicey. If you bid on one through the government, you take a chance on parts being harvested between purchasing and picking up, although they should be locked in a fenced lot. Engine issues and portal axles have kept me away from wanting one, not to mention the real estate they take up. I can fit two heeps in the spot of one humvee.

[BobBoyce]

I agree, which is why I have not bought one yet. I'm in central NC again, working to reduce the M38A1 to a bare frame.

As delivered

6883

Body

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Chassis

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Engine (L134) is out and inside of the shop, ran out of daylight and rain started. Will post more.

Bob

[gmwillys]

I like your method of cleaning out all the collected junk from the floor board. The roll cage worked well to turtle shell the body.

[BobBoyce]

I like your method of cleaning out all the collected junk from the floor board. The roll cage worked well to turtle shell the body.

It was not our original intent. I was trying to remove the body undamaged, in case someone wanted it to use for parts or a restoration project. I used the shop crane to lift the front of the body, and we manually maneuvered the body rear to work it up and over the rear tires. When we slid it far enough rearward, it tipped up on the front. Holding the front down, I disconnected the chain ends from the firewall. Once released from the weight of the shop crane booms pull, when I let go of the front end, it tipped over backwards and rolled onto the top of the roll cage! We are going to have to turn it sideways and put it right side up again to remove the dash plates and instrumentation that should be kept. The floors on the body are extremely rusted through, but looking through the Kaiser Willy's catalog showed those pieces can be bought and replaced.

I attached a few more of the many pictures taken.

Bob

[bmorgil]

Bob, I flipped mine straight up on the tailgate end, and propped it up at a slight angle so I could stand under it. I was able to get to the back side of the dash with ease, nearly standing up. Of course LarrBeard will tell you I am not exactly tall!

[gmwillys]

Whatever it take to get the job done!

The floor doesn't look too bad at all. The floor pans sold by KW are good, and American made. I've used one on an A1 just like yours, and was very happy with the fit and quality.

[BobBoyce]

Sorry guys, I'm in Florida. Been down here for weeks working on another project. Have had no updates other than lots of parts arrived at the body shop and I went by there to inventory everything before heading to Florida. The body manufacturer has taken over the damage claim with the shipper, so no news yet on how they want it handled. The more I read about the M38A1, the more rare they seem to be found in good condition as compared to the CJs. The rear of the frame has had a hitch welded to it, and I want it to be original. It has some damage there, where holes were ripped on the right side, and the hitch was welded on. I'm thinking of replacing that section, and the V shaped brace behind it that is welded to both frame rails. It is bent a bit, but not too badly. I think that welded on hitch is going to make it difficult to seperate the two pieces from one another, as it was welded to both securely. I purchased 100 large solar panels to build some solar arrays at a couple of locations, still waiting for them to arrive at the warehouse so I can load them on the trailer and haul them back home. 6,000 lbs is a lot of weight in solar panels to haul!

[gmwillys]

BobBoyce,

No problem on the updates, we completely understand.

The hitch will not be all that difficult to remove. A 4 1/2" grinder with some cut off wheels will make short work of cutting through the welds that hold the hitch, then you'll be able to remove the V brace and replace it.

[bmorgil]

Bob, a ton of things were welded together on mine. Some pretty unbelievable hacking. I had great success as gm recommends with cut off wheels and careful separation. My bumper was welded on and the pintle was welded to it. After a day with cut off wheels and a grinder, and I got it back to a pretty good facsimile of the original.

[BobBoyce]

OK, thank you guys. I guess I need to talk with my body shop guy and give him the news that we will be restoring that original body. The CJ3B project will just have to wait for a later date, if things don't get too wild in the very near future.

My daily intel reports have really skyrocketed in depth and number as of late, with lots of bad news from within and without the US, all pointing to foreign and domestic threats wanting to target the US while we are fractured from within. I really hope and pray that our veterans and active military are as prepared as I hope they are. I know that I am, when I am at my base of operations. Being many hundreds of miles away from there leaves me feeling more vulnerable, but being far away from DC comforts me more. I cannot stand politics, which is why I refused to relocate to DC when asked, multiple times.

[gmwillys]

These are some uncertain times to say the least, and you are right. There are lots of threats that are just waiting on their moment to strike while we are not paying attention.

If your body shop needs any assistance, I would be glad to help out in any way. The tub is pretty basic in design, there are just a ton of spot welds that are in random places, for no apparent reason.

[BobBoyce]

These are some uncertain times to say the least, and you are right. There are lots of threats that are just waiting on their moment to strike while we are not paying attention.

If your body shop needs any assistance, I would be glad to help out in any way. The tub is pretty basic in design, there are just a ton of spot welds that are in random places, for no apparent reason.

I gave the body shop the news about the restoration of the original M38A1 body. I also rxd word from Omix, my damage claim for the CJ3B body was denied. I will hire a lawyer and go after the shipper and truck driver. They are going to pay big time for making the decision to ship that body on its side. I am also going to return all of the other parts purchased from Omix. I spent a few thousand $ on new parts that I will no longer need since I will not be using that damaged CJ3B body. I will not do any future business with them.

[gmwillys]

I don't blame you at all. These shippers take drop shipping to a new level. At work we had a $2,000 fuel transfer pump go down. The replacement showed up the next day as advertised, but must have been dumped out of an airplane at 10,000 feet. The replacement for the replacement came in and it was extra wrapped with bubble wrap and paper.

[bmorgil]

The body parts and tub kits take a beating getting here from the Philippines, and 99% of them come from there. The crate they pack them in leaves a lot to be desired. They start out well with a small angle iron frame. Unfortunately they build the rest out of paper thin wood. This is the main reason to be careful where you buy it from. I purchased mine from KW. On arrival things had come loose and banged up the inside of the tub. Something had been dropped on the paper thin crate and broke through to damage the cowl. I contacted KW and they were immediately there and made it right. I have heard of others having to do extensive repair work. Mine was not too bad.

[okiemark]

I was lucky. They had called from KW a few days before I got the body kit and told me to inspect it for damage before I accepted it. Well I didn't inspect it completely, but there was not any visible damage to any of the crating and what I could see looked fine. As it turned out there was no damage whatsoever from the shipping, but the components themselves were a little short of perfectly manufactured.

[BobBoyce]

I was told that since I had paid for the body with my PayPal card, it was covered by their buyers protection plan. I filed the report with them, waiting for a response.

[bmorgil]

Wow just what you don't expect. You make the decision to get a new body and you get a new demolished one. You expect the lure of the new body, (bolt on no major body work required) to compensate for the wait and cost. Then you get nothing but trouble.

Stick with it Bob, you'll be glad you accepted nothing but your goal in the end. Man what a bummer. As Mark said, you still need to "massage" them a bit, they are not perfect, but usually they are a real good start. It sounds like they sent you a total loss.

I am VERY interested to watch the Customer Service on this. Something near and dear to my heart. Customer Service defines the confident worthy company from the "others". If you aren't confident you don't stand behind it. We now have an example from the company who sold it to you, I can't wait to see how PayPal handles this. If you have to use the law, small claims could be successful. I would go after the seller and the shipper at the same time. They have to show up in "your" courthouse. Your backyard their inconvenience.

[BobBoyce]

Wow just what you don't expect. You make the decision to get a new body and you get a new demolished one. You expect the lure of the new body, (bolt on no major body work required) to compensate for the wait and cost. Then you get nothing but trouble.

Stick with it Bob, you'll be glad you accepted nothing but your goal in the end. Man what a bummer. As Mark said, you still need to "massage" them a bit, they are not perfect, but usually they are a real good start. It sounds like they sent you a total loss.

I am VERY interested to watch the Customer Service on this. Something near and dear to my heart. Customer Service defines the confident worthy company from the "others". If you aren't confident you don't stand behind it. We now have an example from the company who sold it to you, I can't wait to see how PayPal handles this. If you have to use the law, small claims could be successful. I would go after the seller and the shipper at the same time. They have to show up in "your" courthouse. Your backyard their inconvenience.
AutoAnything, which owns Morris 4X4 Center, referred the damage claim to Omix, the listed manufacturer. Omix denied the claim. I was planning to sue Omix and the shipper, UPS Freight. It was brought to my attention by a business partner that since I paid with my PayPal card, that my purchase is covered by the PayPal buyer protection plan. I filed a dispute with PayPal, now we are awaiting the response from the seller. If the seller response is not acceptable, it will transition to a claim. My local courthouse does not allow me to file a lawsuit against out of state companies.

[cahaldo]

I would file a hidden damage claim with the trucking company and use those photos as proof. Then contact the people you bought it from- they may send you replacement panels at no charge. It couldn't hurt to ask, and the money you save could be put to work elsewhere.

[BobBoyce]

Well, good news on the damaged body. My card provider sided with me on my claim. The seller never bothered to respond to the claim, as they had no valid reason to deny filing for an insurance claim in the first place. I was given a 100% refund, and the seller is stuck with filing an insurance claim or going after the shipper to recover their loss. I am also not required to go through the effort of returning the damaged body, as they had plenty of time to come and get it. The body shop gets to keep it for keeping it stored in a secure area to prevent theft.

I looked at the M38A1 body kit on KaiserWillys. It looks very nice, but I am not sure I am willing to spend that much again at this point. That last body ordeal kinda soured me on spending that much on a risk of possible shipping damage again. Maybe if I had a decent coupon code to apply. LOL

[LarrBeard]

The body shop gets to keep it for keeping it stored in a secure area to prevent theft.

That sounds to me like a pile of pieces for a parts donation ...

[bmorgil]

You need to call Mike At KW and explain both your concern$. He may have a way to ease your mind. I can tell you that my body arrived from KW damaged. The crate from the Philippines is made of light angle iron which is good, and a paper thin wooden crate, which is bad. The crate got stabbed by a fork lift and did some damage to the cowl. Something "heavy" like a feather, fell on the crate and busted through the paper thin wood in a few spots. The windshield fenders etc are all packaged in side the tub. Some of it came loose and caused some damage. All in all the body shop blew right through the damage, not to bad. I called KW when it arrived and Mike made it right. Buying it from KW should take the risk out of it for you. Worst case the shipper damages it again, and you have to call Mike.

[TJones]

Bob I got mine from “Willys Overland Repli-Tub” in Toledo and was fairly happy with it and Jay the owner is a Great guy to deal with. You need to get on their website and check it out.
https://www.willysoverland.com

[gmwillys]

I second the Replitub recommendation. Willys Overland in Toledo takes an MD Juan tub and works them over to fit.

https://www.willysoverland.com/repli-tubs

[bmorgil]

Yes TJ and gm, a solid endorsement! I have wrote about them before. Larry and I were able to check out there display at the Toledo Jeep Fest. They have been there every year. Real good stuff. You do have to pay for it and some guy's will do the "fitting" themselves. However Willys Overland takes all the risk out.

[LarrBeard]

If you need another opinion, I "third" the notion. Willys-Overland in Toledo was a huge Jeep parts dealer, but he had to get out of the pieces and parts business just as I was starting on the '48 Project. I bought a bunch of stuff from him and I'm not sure whatever happened to all the warehouses and yards of stuff he had collected.

BMorgil and I looked his display over closely. If I remember correctly, he has put together set of gauge parts and chassis jigs that he uses to move holes to the right places.

You will pay for his services, but things will come a lot closer to fitting if you get them from him.

[TJones]

If you need another opinion, I "third" the notion. Willys-Overland in Toledo was a huge Jeep parts dealer, but he had to get out of the pieces and parts business just as I was starting on the '48 Project. I bought a bunch of stuff from him and I'm not sure whatever happened to all the warehouses and yards of stuff he had collected.

BMorgil and I looked his display over closely. If I remember correctly, he has put together set of gauge parts and chassis jigs that he uses to move holes to the right places.

You will pay for his services, but things will come a lot closer to fitting if you get them from him.

Jay REALLY likes Cash, I worked a deal with him and took a trailer and cash. He is only a couple hours from me in Akron so it worked out nice.
The tub was from the Philippines as ALL the rest are but like Larry stated he puts them on a jig and welds up all the misplaced mounting holes and re-drills them where they are supposed to be and I'm telling you it fit perfect.
I had him leave out the miscl. holes (brake pedal,clutch pedal and throttle cable just to name a few) bc I was going to cut it up and change a lot of things to my vision of what I wanted to end up with.
All and All it came out pretty close to what I imagined it would.

[BobBoyce]

Thank you for the tips... I made the call yesterday, and he sent me the video. I was impressed with how much rework had to be done, just to make a replacement body a bolt on frame operation. I think it is worth the extra cost to have all of that already done prior to having it shipped. He guarantees it will be right, or he will do what is required to make it right. That'll take a load of work off of the body shop to be able to do that. He said there still may be defects to fix, but at least the body will fit the frame. I've already bought gallons of the correct paint. I talked to the body shop, and he was unaware of the fitment issues of those bodies as they come.

[TJones]

Are you building a completely stock and original Jeep Bob?

[BobBoyce]

Are you building a completely stock and original Jeep Bob?

That was the plan. My father served in WWII, and Korea. I was an Army brat after he became a drill sergeant, and grew up on base amongst many military vehicles. I guess it made an impression upon a much younger me. That experience made me what I am today...

Army brats of recruit trainers were not supposed to hang out with recruits army brats, so I became a bookworm. I was allowed to progress in my education at whatever pace I could, so I rapidly progressed through normal academics and into advanced education. My first doctorate was in physics, my second in aerospace engineering. By that time, my "experiments" had drawn the attention of the NSA, and they arranged for me to sign up for the Directed Energy Technology program in the DOD. I had been "exploding" discarded cast iron stoves with a high powered laser on base. Yea, I was the one tasked to put orbital lasers into space, prior to President Reagan going into office. From there, it was on to the Air Forces "classified space program".

The X-37 (Not the X-37B drone) was our first manned space plane. Hard to find information on that, because it was classisfied. Redacted blueprints were made available to NASA, which resulted in the Space Shuttle program. Their primary issue was related to turning a space plane into a space truck, to haul heavy cargo and larger crews into space. It had been designed as a spy plane. one that flew in low earth orbit, so kinda hard to shoot down. It carried a 3 man crew and a spy plane camera system only. To accomplish that, they attached it to a couple of solid rocket boosters, and an external fuel tank. It had not been designed for those additional stresses. I was there when Challenger exploded. NASA was told that the crew survived, and to deploy a rescue mission. They ignored that advice, thinking the crew compartment had been destroyed. It had been designed to survive the space plane being hit by a missile, so it had been seperated by the explosion. It survived the explosion, and spashdown. The crew were still suited up and strapped into their seats. They had survived, and awaited rescue, until they ran out of of breathable air. That was never revealed to the public. It would have made things worst for the news to break that they had been allowed to die because NASA had ignored the advice to mount a rescue mission!

Bob

I wanted to add, the above was just a skeleton of information to show a part of my background of experience. I will not delve deeper into the structure of my work with the DOD, as it is not pertinent to this project, and could likely compromise national security if I revealed more details of how these classified programs are structured in the command chain...

[gmwillys]

Bob,

Thank you for your service to the Nation. Your unsung efforts have made a difference, even though nobody knows about it being top secret.

[bmorgil]

Wow Bob, I don't know what to say. Amazing man. What a life you are having! Man I would love to sit around the campfire with some stories you must have. You are one highly educated individual Bob, this country is very lucky to have you!

I cant wait to watch you build the Jeep. I think it will be a lot of fun and a giant step back in time, from where you have been "Rocket Man"!

Bob

[TJones]

WOW is all I can say myself, and THANK YOU for your service Bob to keep our country Free and Safe...........
I am like Bob excited to watch your build!!!

[AJ-MJ]

Enjoyed reading about your background but we can't talk about that. :o BUT, I am also enjoying your build. It is really moving along smoothly!