RANCHO suspension... WHY did I do this?

[Mark J]

So, 41 years ago, I had to copy my friends and get this Rancho leaf spring set. Originally there were 4 leaves which was WAY too stuff. I removed one spring years ago and the darn thing is still too stiff and too high. I'm getting this running after it sitting 25 years. Does anyone know if remove the lowest spring (shortest one) would lower this jeep back, or close to original height? Hard to see because of the grime and rust but that's the three-leaf set up.

[5JeepsAz]

I am totally looking forward to the answers on this. I remember the rancho kits but I have no idea what will happen if you delete 2 springs. Maybe someone did that for sand dunes back when.

[bmorgil]

Typically Rancho Springs were "Re-Arched" with a helper added. The lower spring is the one that is usually added or "beefed up". You certainly can remove it. It will lower the Jeep though only you will find out how much. It will definitely ease the ride and, lower the weight carrying capacity of the vehicle. I will say that I usually take the lower leaf out of my daily driver pick up trucks to ease the ride and lower it. I add air bags to use when I am actually hauling something.

[gmwillys]

I agree with Bmorgil on the removal of the helper spring. You may get a half inch of lowering, but it will ride a bit better.

[Mark J]

Thanks everyone!
I was obviously undereducated on suspension when I bought that set. Well, I was 16 and now I'm nearly 60! (I was 15 when I bought it - my first car!)
I think I'll remove them and get original stock springs. I just want to have shocks that work again, and just drive this jeep around town and on dirt roads.

[scoutingranch]

Mark, we all do things that defy logic in youth. Heck, I know old people that still do questionable moves. I think it smart what you are doing by purchasing new correct springs. As for shocks I use KYB.

Mike down in Encintias

[okiemark]

My explanation is that a 60 year old a** hurts more than a 16 year old a**.

[gmwillys]

When the old guys say that you'll regret doing things (insert any action here), they know what they are talking about.

[Mark J]

I wholeheartedly agree!! What I thought was good back in the late 70's has changed a little.
Working on this jeep is somewhat surreal. It sat so long in the garage that it became sort of a "ghost" to me. It was there, but I stopped noticing it was a jeep. It was just another object in the garage.
Now, working on it after 25 years, it's come back to life and I'm noticing all the stupid **** I did when I was THAT age. One of the worst thing was chopping a rectangular hole in the dash to install a military style instrument panel, replacing the broken one piece that was there originally. Again I had to copy my friends jeeps. :(
I have a new OEM style cluster to eventually go back in, when I find a decent metal worker to "put the round hole back in." I should start a separate thread on all this... it might be entertaining!

[bmorgil]

Mark not to worry, it is always best to know what happened. I can remember many job's where I scratched my head and wondered "now why did someone do that?" In your instance the history is known. You did it because it was there! Knowing its history is as much fun as putting it all back together.

[Mark J]

Mark not to worry, it is always best to know what happened. I can remember many job's where I scratched my head and wondered "now why did someone do that?" In your instance the history is known. You did it because it was there! Knowing its history is as much fun as putting it all back together.

That's a great point. Thank you. Yes at least I did know the "reason for holes" like the huge-*** one on the side for the CB antenna! That will be one of them that I'll have filled in eventually along with the big ol square I cut out for the military style instrument panel. My brakes are closer to being complete but I'm racing the clock now. Major neck surgery is this Monday and I'll be out of service for at least 6 weeks. That will give me plenty of time though to assess what I need to do and order more parts, like those leaf springs. :)

[gmwillys]

Good luck on the neck surgery, and we will keep you in our thoughts.

[Mark J]

Thank you! I installed another brake line yesterday: that little squiggly one to the wheel cylinder. Tomorrow morning, the surgery "party" starts. I'll order my leaf springs while I'm out of service. :)

[Mark J]

I'm back... alive more or less. Surgery was "successful" but still in pain. Doctor says it can take a year or more for results sometimes...
In the meantime, I finished my brake overhaul and back to my leaf spring dilemma.
I have a source for getting "good, checked, used" leaf springs for the front and rear of my 3B for $50 each.
Once this jeep is back on the road regularly, ALL I will do is drive it around town or perhaps on a dirt road from time to time. There will be on heavy off-roading, ever.
Has anyone here purchased the OMIX springs? The OMIX are about $85 each without tax and shipping. I'm concerned with the quality of those, though.
I'm really leaning toward the "good checked used" but just want some feedback.
Thanks!

[gmwillys]

Welcome back Mark J. Glad you are on the road to recovery, and back at working on you 3B.

In my opinion, I would go after the good checked used springs. For what you are planning to do with your rig, they will fit the bill nicely.

[bmorgil]

Good to here you are on the road back Mark! I agree with gm, though I am not sure what "checked" means. For that price they should do you just fine. As long as they have a good arch to them, and the shackles are usable, you can't go wrong on something your just going to drive around and have fun in. I am sure if it goes together and sits at a good ride height it will handle what ever you want to do including off road, with used springs.

[LarrBeard]

I'm back... alive more or less. Surgery was "successful" but still in pain. Doctor says it can take a year or more for results sometimes...

It's good to hear from you again. We all understand ... alive more or less ... . Just take it easy crawling around under things.

I'd go with the "used, inspected" springs as well - give them a good critical eyeball when you get them - check all the little clamps and snubbers. Clean them up well and give them a coat of paint - your old bony backside and neck will appreciate the smoother ride.

Just remember; Doctors get paid to "practice" - the rest of us have to play for real (grumble, grumble, Harumph)

[Mark J]

Thanks all, again! I've ordered new shackles but they're back ordered. Jeep Hut had a decent price but they're back ordered until May. I can't wait that long now because, after driving it a little bit, I found out my "Franken-neck" just can't handle the shock. In fact, I think I mentioned earlier... the shocks don't even work! There's not enough flex in the springs for the shocks to engage.

[5JeepsAz]

Welcome back ...er. Back to the forum life! Hope you take it easy, don't be pulling out any screws in the human, only the jeep

[Mark J]

Thanks all, again! I've ordered new shackles but they're back ordered. Jeep Hut had a decent price but they're back ordered until May. I can't wait that long now because, after driving it a little bit, I found out my "Franken-neck" just can't handle the shock. In fact, I think I mentioned earlier... the shocks don't even work! There's not enough flex in the springs for the shocks to engage.

There's a titanium plate in my neck now but I think I'll leave it there! :)

[bmorgil]

Steady as she goes Mark. Heal up and giver her hell!

[Mark J]

I wish the healing would be faster than 4 months, and counting.
Well regardless... the leaf springs are getting picked out for me in the next few days. I'm REALLY looking forward to getting this jeep back at its original height and ride. It's literally painful to drive right now! :eek:

[bmorgil]

Hang in there Mark, it will heal. No bouncing in the Jeep for a while.

[Mark J]

Hang in there Mark, it will heal. No bouncing in the Jeep for a while.

I had forgotten that "bucking bronco" feeling when I drive it at about 40mph. Ouuuuuuuuuuuuch!!!! I'm not 17 anymore!

[bmorgil]

I had forgotten that "bucking bronco" feeling when I drive it at about 40mph. Ouuuuuuuuuuuuch!!!! I'm not 17 anymore!

Ha ha now I have to tell a story.

I woke up a few decades ago from some neck surgery. As the room became clear and bright, I was able to look in only one direction. My head would not move. Directly in front of me on the ceiling in the darkened recovery room, the PBR World Nationals were on the T.V.. Bull Riders, their heads snapping back and forth and back and forth, slow motion back and forth. Their heads snapping chin to chest back of their head to their shoulders. I watched for hours unable to move.

No bucking in the Jeep man!

[5JeepsAz]

You saw signs!!! Riders on the Storm! Into this world they're thrown...No, wrong song. Ghost Riders in the sky? "Cowboy change your ways or with us you will ride..." Let's count the blessings everybody's got their head on straight. I will say this, Mark J picked an interesting year to have it done. On the one hand, everybody was pandemic'ing out, which means we were all waylaid for a year in some ways so maybe felt sympatico, and, on the other hand, he didn't have to pandemic out since he was already laid up, so maybe that makes him normal? Upside down year for sure. My brother jerked his screws out being silly and had to go back for a tightening, 6 more weeks of a head and neck container, so hopefully you avoid that. Maybe to avoid the bmorgil situation you could park yourself next to your Jeep or the other way around and just look at each other. Then again, some of us might be guilty of doing that anyway. Feel better, man!

[Mark J]

Ha ha now I have to tell a story.
...Bull Riders, their heads snapping back and forth and back and forth, slow motion back and forth. Their heads snapping chin to chest back of their head to their shoulders. I watched for hours unable to move.
No bucking in the Jeep man!

That's hilarious, and thank you for that story. The irony: waking up to that scene after major neck surgery. I can't imagine the "future damage" that will occur to those riders. UGH!
I woke up in post op to some beautiful nurses. Or, they looked that way with my "Propofol glasses" on! :cool:

[Mark J]

You saw signs!!! Riders on the Storm! Into this world they're thrown...No, wrong song. Ghost Riders in the sky? "Cowboy change your ways or with us you will ride..." Let's count the blessings everybody's got their head on straight. I will say this, Mark J picked an interesting year to have it done. On the one hand, everybody was pandemic'ing out, which means we were all waylaid for a year in some ways so maybe felt sympatico, and, on the other hand, he didn't have to pandemic out since he was already laid up, so maybe that makes him normal? Upside down year for sure. My brother jerked his screws out being silly and had to go back for a tightening, 6 more weeks of a head and neck container, so hopefully you avoid that. Maybe to avoid the bmorgil situation you could park yourself next to your Jeep or the other way around and just look at each other. Then again, some of us might be guilty of doing that anyway. Feel better, man!

Thanks for those good words too!
It was something I had considered for years. And I already had c6/c7 discectomy fusion 4 years earlier. So, why not do the entire neck?!! This was now "revision" at c7, and then discectomy/fusion up to c3... fun fun fun. Still waiting for pain relief...
Funny, when I realized this "little" pandemic was going to go on (and on and on and on) I did start numerous projects regardless of my neck pain. I did restorations to another antique slot machine, a 30's wall telephone, and an old metal Lionel train bridge. Then I set up a ham station (Kenwood HF rig) in the garage, and made a long wire antenna for the roof and put up a 20' 2 meter antenna for my local communication radio.
But during all this time THAT Jeep was in the garage. It had been in the garage so long (1995) that I had forgotten it was there. It just became part of the garage, like a large yellow shelf, or a yellow water heater. It also had become a storage bin of sorts. I had sh*t in bags sitting in the back and on the floor areas. First thing I did was move that crap out. And about two years earlier, I removed the top and roll bar... sold 'em both on Craigslist. I thought if I ever got it working, I just want a stock looking jeep. There will be no more off-roading, or driving regularly in rain. It never rains in California, right? When September rolled in, I had seen the surgeon, and made my decision for this major surgery, finally setting a date for Nov 9th.
And the pandemic rolled on... and there was my jeep, NOT rolling on; not rolling at all. I knew I couldn't do everything to restore this to a daily drive yet but that I could at least, maybe, make it run. One battery, carburetor, fuel tank, fuel pump, hoses later - it started and ran, very rough at first. Still have a cracked exhaust valve but it ran. It actually ran better each time!
It ran, but didn't stop. However, with that low gear, who needs brakes? The surgery date was looming on me so I did get most of the brake overhaul started. In a way, it WAS the pandemic that pushed me to do something NOW or it may never get done. It definitely was a year never like any in my life, or anyone others as well. Following surgery, the only thing I really could do was park myself next to the jeep and look at it, imagining me driving it again like I did when I was barely 16 years old.
Fast forward to two months after surgery, when I'm "cleared" for most everything, I resumed and finished the brakes. I had a few times where I strained my neck too much being underneath, lifting my head to tighten up hoses, etc.
Without writing pages more (which I could), I'll summarize this with the fact that, even though this year was awful, for all of us, it did give me time to reflect in ways I had never before. And I made tremendous progress (I think) in getting this jeep to a point of driving. It's even insured now. Registration is another story...and I'll start a new post for that.
So being laid up with a pandemic, made me actually think differently in terms of time and being able to take "baby steps" in working on the 3B. I had plenty of time to just wait (for parts) and start something else while waiting. Multi-tasking is not something I'm good at, but I certainly learned it in 2020. And, suddenly things came together: I can get in the jeep, start it up, and drive away now... and stop too!
Now as 2021 rolls in, like a bucking bronco, I'm certain to get that damn Rancho suspension off and the cushy new/old leaves in, for a painless ride, or a less pain ride! Thanks again to everyone here. It's nice having this jeep family to share things with.

[5JeepsAz]

I'm sorry to say this, but. From reading your timeline there, it appears the catastrophic mistake was parking the jeep in the first place. Let me recap. You had a cool jeep. You parked it. You actually started parting it out. Decades of calamity followed. You finally came to your senses (I am so glad we all had a chance to reset our mental gears during this pandemic, some of us just went plum crazy for a time). Now that you started working on the jeep, caring for it, suddenly life makes sense again. I'm the same way. When the buzzer of insanity in my life is buzzing, I just take solace in my old jeep. Now what is bizarre is, in this age of side effects, is people love it as much as I do. My walk of life takes me here, there, near, far. I like seeing all kinds of people from all places, variants I guess on the walk of life. This universal jeep feeling? It's awesome! Everybody loves it. Now you know I'm teasing, but that doesn't make me wrong. Restoring a jeep is a process that brings out the best in all of us. Really glad you're fixed up, even if the pain is still there. At least you took steps, and now pain free existence is more likely. Fix the damn jeep brother!!!

[Mark J]

Ok that was a good one, again!
The funny thing is that I really started "parting it in" by storing that crap inside, making it a CJ3B "wheeled storage container."
Only thing in it now is my jacket, sunglasses, all in a small plastic basket (under the original upholstery back seat) with the proof of insurance and temp driving papers. :)
I have a crank start for it, but that stays out! It's from a WWII jeep and I don't want that thing stolen.

[5JeepsAz]

Appreciate where you are in the process! Since you've been here some years now, it's good to know a newer person like me has so much to look forward to. Interested to see you have little parts and pieces lined up. I have same. The original house phone for mine. Going to convert to modern guts so it'll be a hands free device. Soon as I get to it... Hope you are feeling better day by day

[Mark J]

Thought I'd post something relevant to the topic I started!
Since the jeep is "running" now, I'm back to dealing with my bucking bronco Rancho suspension that I hate now. Funny, when I was 17 it was fun to bounce and jerk around while driving: it seemed to get attention too, as if I was the bull rider being watched by an audience of regular drivers. And I just reviewed this thread, re-reading bmorgil's post:
"...Bull Riders, their heads snapping back and forth and back and forth, slow motion back and forth. Their heads snapping chin to chest back of their head to their shoulders..."
So anyway... I got a decent set (I hope) of old leaf springs, hand picked just for me by a jeep restoration guy in Oregon - Toledo Oregon, of all cities. The irony! I'm to use the "more arched" ones on the drivers side, I was told.
I've brushed and buffed them and they're ready for paint. I had already bought a can of decent (works on rust) paint. Last night I decided to just spray one just to get started but ran into a problem before I even began.
You know those damn "secure" paint can caps that just refuse to pop off? Well this one was being stubborn.
I gave it some slight force at the prying point. Not only did it NOT come off, but it somehow stayed on, still stuck, but managed to push the valve forward. So I'm hearing this "SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS" sound and, one second later, there's my paint... running out from under the cap and all over my hands. Another shoe drop?
After clean up (my hands are still black at the finger tips) I did spray one side. I'll get to the rest tomorrow.
Unfortunately I still can't install them because the shackles I need are back ordered, by everyone. They're on eBay but I'm not paying $34 each!
I'll just work on other things... squeaks, clicks, whirrs, etc...

[bmorgil]

The gremlins are throwing shoes!

Hahaha, no "bull riding" after neck surgery!

[gmwillys]

Know what you are talking about exactly when dealing with spray bombs. I was working on a A/C tractor job a while back. Stepped up and bought the Allis Chalmers orange cans from TSC. Just needed to touch up a few spots on the front weight, and went to spray..... Nothing. Shook the daylights out of the can, warmed the can, cleaned the tip, and still nothing. Pellet rifle and a 5 gallon bucket did the trick. Only bad thing it was a one time use.

[Mark J]

Pellet rifle and a 5 gallon bucket did the trick. Only bad thing it was a one time use.

NICE!!! I really wanted to fire a bullet in this crappy paint can, bought at ACE hardware. Luckily the second can worked and I avoided painting myself!

[gmwillys]

I once knew a guy who took a fire axe to a full can of expandable foam out of pure frustration. It did not end well. The range that a sudden release of pressurized foam is pretty impressive.

Glad you were able to have one can of paint work.

[Mark J]

I once knew a guy who took a fire axe to a full can of expandable foam out of pure frustration. It did not end well. The range that a sudden release of pressurized foam is pretty impressive.

Glad you were able to have one can of paint work.

I recently did have a fight with an expandable foam can! Stupid built in "straw" kept clogging up so I cut it shorter and shorter and it kept a' coming out! I guess I should have held it upside down and sprayed but I got so damn frustrated with all that stupid stick goo all over my fingers, and just tossed it back on a shelf.
Hmmm I do have a hatchet...

[Mark J]

I will eventually post on my suspension, but like many others, I'm still waiting on availability of shackles. I miss the days when there were actual stores, that had stuff. Now it seems all these so-called stores are just fronts or distributors who drop-ship, and that includes a lot of establishments that I thought were actual JEEP parts places. Hell... some of the parts I need show up on the Walmart site!
"Hi - My name is Mark and my jeep is being rebuilt with Chinese parts from Walmart."
Anyway, I've buffed all the rust off my old-new springs - they're shiny and black ready to suspend my jeep in the future. Soon I hope because I can't take riding this bucking bronco much longer. Oh those speed bumps hurt!

[Mark J]

And, FINALLY after over a year since I started this thread, my shackles have arrived. I tried three different US sellers (including Kaiser first) for getting these blasted things. Kept waiting and waiting, getting the runaround. Two companies said on their site "IN STOCK," but they were backordered and I was never notified. Finally I gave up and ordered them from a company in India. The seller replied very quickly to my message and his were actually in stock. I paid probably at least $40 more for these but, shockingly, they arrived in about a week and a half... FROM INDIA. I'm quite excited to get this new/old springs in, because I'm really tired driving and having my head snapping back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...
I'm still amazed at how fast this arrived, faster than many US sellers. And check out the address - "near oil pump...'

[bmorgil]

Good news Mark! It looks like they got a plane ride.

[gmwillys]

Reminds me of "turn right at old man Johnson's oak tree". Evidently the Indian post office is a bit more on point. I get my neighbors mail all the time.

[LarrBeard]

Or; "Turn right where the old barn burned down several years ago...".

It got there because it was an International FedEx package. The FedEx folks are local and know which at which gas pump to turn.

FedEx does deliver - they are a bit pricey in most cases, but if it really has to get there - they are the way to go.

[Mark J]

I'm confident if I had to return these, that they'd get right to that shop near the Indian oil petrol pump #3! :D

I need the U bolts now, totally forgot. I think my 40+ year old bolts are a little on the stretched side. Prices seem to be all over the place for those things.
I'm tempted to just order them from India since the shipping on my shackles was so darn fast!

[LarrBeard]

If it isn't broken - don't try to fix it until it breaks.

If the price plus shipping is reasonable , go for it.

Some time last year someone posted links to an Indian enterprise who were making Jeep parts - I think they might have been tubs, fenders and other metal parts. This might be an emerging market that will compete with the Philippine suppliers.

I just hope they don't look like the Pakistani engine overhaul shops we have been watching on YouTube lately. They are real life horror movies - both from a people and mechanical standpoint.

[bmorgil]

Give these guys a call, I think they can help you. They have supplied a few custom parts for me on a variety of vehicles.

https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/findmyvehicle/

Or try here by size.

https://www.kilensprings.com/automotive-springs/u-bolts.asp

[Mark J]

Thanks bmorgil!
By the time I read your reply, I actually found the entire set at "The Jeepster Man." The price seemed reasonable and they arrived today. I dug out my 4 used springs from the side of the garage - now I need to remember which one goes where! I think I can figure this out. :D