New member with 56 CJ-3B

[Mchambers]

Hello- new owner of a 56 Willys. This Jeep belonged to my sister in laws family for at least 50 years. Was used as a hunting buggy until her brother died at which time she had it cleaned up and has “donated” to me to keep at our farm where she visits frequently. I took it to a mechanic to get it running and she had it painted and had the entire inside sprayed with a Bedliner. Runs good for a farm buggy and we are excited to start playing with it. Already had a couple of issues which is why I found this forum. I’m fairly mechanical and like troubleshooting. 12 volt electrical systems are not my strong suit but already had to trace all the wiring to figure out why my alternator quit working. After taking it off to go buy a new one I had them test first and found out it was good. A couple of hours later and several dings on my head trying to check everything under the dash I finally figured out the ground wire from the fuel Gauge to the fire wall was corroded. Always find the easiest fix last!! Anyhow, looking forward to learning more and thanks in advance for your help!

[5JeepsAz]

Pictures, man!

[gmwillys]

Great job on your troubleshooting efforts. Simple things first is a great motto, unless it involves going under the dash of a Willys. We have all been there, putting off diving under the dash, just because it is such a pain in more ways than one.

We appreciate you taking ownership of your families heirloom Jeep. Not many folks these days are willing to take on the responsibility of keeping up such a task. Please post some pictures when you get a chance.

[bmorgil]

What a great start. I really envy you guys who get the "good ones". I think you will find the electrical is as basic as it gets. Your Jeep is on the "cusp" of the 12 volt era. Sometime 56' to 57' the switch to 12 volts from 6 volts happened on your year or shortly there after. From 1956 through 1957 some were 12 and some were 6 volts from the factory.

[LarrBeard]

Hello- new owner of a 56 Willys. 12 volt electrical systems are not my strong suit but already had to trace all the wiring to figure out why my alternator quit working. After taking it off to go buy a new one I had them test first and found out it was good. A couple of hours later and several dings on my head trying to check everything under the dash I finally figured out the ground wire from the fuel Gauge to the fire wall was corroded.

If you're being owned by a Jeep (they own you - not vice versa), I'd suggest you go ahead and buy the shop manual for it. You will find answers to questions in the Manual that you didn't know you needed answers for.

If you had to go get the alternator checked, someone has probably done a generator to alternator conversion on it - I think the first 12-volt Jeeps were generator systems. But, I've been wrong and we've learned not to say "Jeeps never ____________ " or "Willys never ____________".

And - pictures! It didn't happen if there wasn't a picture of it.

[Mchambers]

Here are some pics. They did a good job painting and with the bedliner. Everything under the hood is untouched. It does have an alternator and 95% of the wiring is the old cloth covered looking wire. It has either a voltage regulator or reducer on the firewall. I think it is a reducer...at idle the output was around 5-6 volts... but I’m open for guidance. Glad it’s charging now. I’m okay with 12 volt wiring when I start from scratch...like wiring my boat etc.. but having multiple relays, bunch of wires coming off a switch etc. gets me confused. I’ll definitely find a manual as I have no idea about this oil bath air filter and several other things for normal maintenance. Thanks again!
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[Mchambers]

Couple more under the hood
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[5JeepsAz]

Great jeep! Thanks for the pictures. Those seats look comfortable...

[Mchambers]

Thanks! The passenger seat is fine. The drivers seat needs to be worked on. Feels like your falling out of the Jeep. Not a big deal. The main thing is the steering wheel stays jammed in my gut! I’m 6’2” and weigh 240. This will let me know when I’m getting fatter!

[bmorgil]

I am 5'7" and not that heavy and the steering wheel is right there! I stare right at the top of the windshield. I think it's safe to say people were much smaller back in the day.

When you say you are getting 6V I am not sure where you are measuring it but, suffice it to say you may have a 6 volt system. For the year, that makes sense. The "thing" on the firewall by the air cleaner is the starter solenoid. I cant quite "eyeball" that battery but It looks like it might be a sealed 6 volt. Measure the voltage right across the two battery posts with the engine running. Measure it at idle and at about 1500 rpm or so and let us know the two readings. For sure get the reprint of the service manual. It is excellent for what it is. Take pictures of what you are writing of and it will help everyone on the forum. When you hook up your meter post a pic and the guys will know where you are, and can help. The electrical is basic. You will be comfortable with it in no time.

There is a lot of information on the "Sticky's" and throughout, in the tech sections.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/forumdisplay.php?23-Tech-Library

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/forumdisplay.php?5-Tech-Questions-Answers-How-To

[Mchambers]

Thanks for the links! It is a 12 volt system. Now that I’ve got the system charging it puts out just under 14 volts at a high idle. I’ve posted a pic of what I was referring to as a voltage regulator or reducer. I measured the voltage at each end of it when I got the lower voltage.
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[Mchambers]

Sorry for the sideways pic. I’m doing this from an IPhone. For some reason it’s turning them. Also, when I open a post and click on a pic it messes up on my screen. Maybe I need to be on a computer?

[LarrBeard]

Thanks for the links! It is a 12 volt system. Now that I’ve got the system charging it puts out just under 14 volts at a high idle. I’ve posted a pic of what I was referring to as a voltage regulator or reducer. I measured the voltage at each end of it when I got the lower voltage.
7378

You seem to have a basic 12-volt conversion.

I'd bet the original generator was swapped for an alternator with an internal regulator, so you don't need the original three-terminal voltage regulator.

Headlights and lamps were changed to 12-volts, but changing out the sensors and gauges was a big task, so the voltage reducer is just a series resistor that drops the 13.8 or so volts of the system down to about 6-volts. (13.8 is just about right for a charge voltage).

It's not elegant, but it works.

You look good to go.

[LarrBeard]

We can handle sideways and upside down. If you're up under the dash, it's upside down anyway.

[bmorgil]

I did not see the use of the Ballast resistor on the other side of the air cleaner with all the wires hooked to it.

Larry, are you saying they are jumping off the ignition ballast resistor to drop the voltage? That would be a tough way to "drop" the 12 down to 6! How would you know how much resistance to use? The ballast resistor drops the coil voltage to about 9 volts depending on the current draw of the coil. If that's what was done your idea in the other post about the Solid State voltage reducer is a MUCH better way to go.

Take some pictures of the back of the alternator Mchambers, lets see if that is a "One Wire" or an internal regulator as Larry suspects.

[Mchambers]

7380Bmorgil, I’m attaching some pics that hopefully will answer your questions. My alternator has only one wire coming from the two spade connector. The other picture is a better view of the part I’m thinking is a reducer.
Thanks,
Mark
73797379

[bmorgil]

The white "reducer" is the ballast resistor. It looks to me like it has 3 wires on it. One wire should be coming from the ignition switch on one side of the resistor. On the other side of the resistor one wire should be coming from the starter or starter solenoid and the other wire hooked to the positive terminal on the coil. The coil uses 12 volts to start and 9 volts to run. It is not part of the charging circuit unless it is hooked up as Larry suspects.

I think you have a GM 10si alternator in there. I am not sure how it is hooked up but, here is a quick look at how it SHOULD be hooked up! As Larry said, trying to figure out how it was converted without being there is tough. Lots of pictures. Can you get a picture of the backside of the alternator? That will help verify exactly what it is. It looks like a "3 wire". One large wire on a post to the battery + terminal or starter solenoid and two smaller wires in a spade plug that operate the charge light or gauge and the excitation of the field.

[LarrBeard]

WE may have Girarffelephant here - or a Hippogator. The Hippogator is a mythical beast with a head on both ends. That makes him really mean ...

I need to scratch my head a bit ...

Does the CJ 5 have an ammeter or just a charge light? I don't have that Shop Manual.

It ran OK once upon a time, now it doesn't, so let's not go crazy fixing things that don't really need to be fixed. I'd say battery and alternator for first steps.

[bmorgil]

Yes I agree. I think step one is some verification. Set the Mutlmeter to Volts and the range to 20 or whatever you have near that. With the engine off measure the voltage across the battery terminals. Start it up and measure the battery voltage across the terminals again. Rev it to a very fast idle and measure the voltage across the battery posts once more with it revving. Gives us a shout with the results. Lets start at square one.

The CJ5 had an amp gauge. The "field" on a 10si Alternator used a charge light in the field circuit. The 10si can be made to charge in various ways with or without a charge light. We can figure that out later if needed.

You stated you did get 14 volts at high idle. Lets verify that and see what you are getting from the battery when it is off and from the battery when it is idling. If it is going dead with good voltage readings, there is a current leak somewhere or the battery is sulfated.

[Mchambers]

Guys, think we have 2 threads mixed up!!Lol. My alternator has a threaded stud with a wire going to amp gauge on dashboard and then a 2 blade connector-which uses only one of the two blades- and that ONE wire goes to the ignition terminal on my key switch. It is a Delco 42 amp alternator.
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[bmorgil]

Haha status quo, Bob is all mixed up! OK I am pretty sure on this one. You have a "3 Wire" GM 10SI alternator. The wire that is not hooked up would have gone to the indicator light on the dash. The wire that is hooked to the ignition switch is exciting the field of the alternator. What someone has done is made a GM 10SI into an effective "1" wire alternator. When the field of the alternator has less voltage than the output of the alternator the alternator will attempt to charge (LarrBeard did I get that right?) So by hooking it (the field wire) to the ignition switch, when the key is on, 12 volts is applied to field causing the alternator to charge. I would say it is hooked up in a fashion that should work fine. Now if the internal voltage regulator in the alternator is leaking it will slowly drain the battery. Refer to the other thread! Oh my.

I am going to go out on a limb here and state this on paper:

I believe the absolute best solution to an easy 12volt clean trouble free bolt in solution to a 6 volt system is a one wire. This is so easy to do it should be illegal. If you have to buy a new alternator don't waste your time on anything but an internally triggered "One Wire". Just remember they start charging at a set RPM. So the first time you rev the engine it starts to charge. This is the one thing that causes the most confusion on a one wire.

https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/alternator-1-wire-universal-self-excited-10si-10-si-7127-se.html?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=1145&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=&acctid=21700000001643279&dskeywordid=92700057558223670&lid=92700057558223670&ds_s_kwgid=58700006372555049&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007195091&dsproductgroupid=840955710121&product_id=ADR0152&merchid=1552033&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid=%7bproduct_store_id%7d&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&locationid=9015127&creative=469157498045&targetid=pla-840955710121&campaignid=835875553&adgroupid=113219693514&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3NX_BRDQARIsALA3fILiBAG6N_GUDAW2BDum 7KjIgzlwPlVu4_bSo6HdLjmMUcIiwJUikhoaArGqEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Mchambers]

Good info...thanks!

[LarrBeard]

Here is a good description of how the alternator does its thing:

http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/10si.htm

I found it interesting that the writer makes this comment:

"High output aside, don't expect your alternator to do anything for you at idle speeds. Alternator output increases with rpm, even a 100amp unit won't put out much more than a 63amp unit at 1000rpm. If your using underdrive pulleys, this may highlight or worsen idle output problems."

Both old coots agree that it should work - something has gone wrong.