Ham's '48; What Next?

[LarrBeard]

AARGHHHH!!!

It's been one of those Midwest winters that drive you nuts. Not really enough snow to make it wintery and pretty, just muddy and UGLY. It looks like you could get out and do things until you try, and then you decide it really wasn't that great an idea.

BOREDOM! COVID ISOLATION! CABIN FEVER! I've cleaned all the guns, twice. What next?

I guess it's time to start planning the Jeep schedule for next summer. I hope we have lots of shows.

I still have two upgrades I want to do on the truck. I've tried to keep it as near stock as I can, but sometimes you really need to do an upgrade for safety's sake. In 1948, on 35 MPH roads, dim 6-volt headlights were all that anyone had, but today when I'm on the way home from a show at dusk, I feel under-lighted. I have considered adding a 6-volt to 12-volt headlight converter for some time, but this winter I decided to take the 12-volt headlight upgrade to a different level, let's go LED like the new Jeeps!

I plan to use Grote 7 Sealed Beam lights. I want to see what's waiting to jump out in front of me on the road, we're in deer country here and I've had two close calls in the truck! I can stuff a 10-amp converter up under the dash. It is a one wire swap on the light switch (and a change out of the high beam bulb) and probably something else I've missed somewhere.

https://www.grote.com/file-attachments/Grote-7-LED-Headlamp-GLB2016-238.pdf

I'll probably also change the wipers to 6-volt electric wipers. The old vacuum wipers, even with a beer-keg vacuum reservoir just don't cut it in a summer downpour. I want to see what's in front of me - I'm a lot more cautious than I was back when I drove the truck every day!

Then there's that drippy pinion seal ... but I want to get out and show off, SHOW TIME!

Come On TOLEDO JEEP FEST '21

[bmorgil]

Oh those are cool, very cool! 1000+ lumins on high wow. Will those bolt right in on peeJ? You can buy a couple of bottles of Johnny Walker Blue Label for what two of those will set you back!

[5JeepsAz]

As usual exactly right on all of it. Those lights look like they will do the job.

[TJones]

Those lights will definitely light up your path at night, you probably will get high beams flashed at you to turn your high beams off when you have the low beams on!!!
You may have to get a “Anti-Flicker Relay” for them unless they come with one, my LED lights came with one but when we wired them in we tried them without it and they didn’t need it. My Wire Wizard said sometimes you need the AFR due to the juice they draw makes the headlights flicker.
I’m not a electrician so I’m not sure, I think I may still have the AFR’s if you need a couple.

[bmorgil]

LarrBeard electrical guy, can you give an explanation on what TJ is saying? In particular why do those L.E.D.'s draw so much current? I thought that was the benefit of the L.E.D.. I see in the spec's they will run anywhere between 9 and 32 volts. Wow they will also bolt right into a 24 volt system. The power draw at 12v is low beam 15w high beam 27w. That seems pretty low. I was thinking a Halogen high beam draws around 4 amps and around 2 amps on low at 14 volts. Doesn't that put the L.E.D. at around 3 amps also? If so these bulbs should actually draw less power than a Halogen on High Beam. TJ do you have the power draw on your lights? Could the flicker be AC noise from an Alternator? Very interesting. Enlighten me Senior Chief!

OHMS law calculator: https://www.inchcalculator.com/watts-to-amps-calculator/

[TJones]

Here is what he sent me after curiosity got the best of me.
Most vehicles are built for traditional halogen bulbs and don't have onboard computers that are able to handle the unique electrical needs of LED headlights. This will cause poor communication and flickering. ... Anti-flicker adapters are normally the best solution if your driver or converter isn't doing the best job.

[TJones]

He also sent me this
If you intermix Led headlights with incandescent bulbs “ marker lights” . Led circuits like what I call a clean 12volts. I notice that the programable Halo lights are more sensative

[LarrBeard]

I caught that - we're talking about headlights and you asked; "Enlighten me Senior Chief!" GROAN!

WOW – here we go again into a new and exciting question. It’s been too long. I’d never heard of “Anti-flicker relays”, so I went and asked Mrs. Google about them. Just about every reference to Anti-flicker talked about them in HID light applications.

OK – another new term that I thought I knew, but I went back to Mrs. G. “HID” refers to High Intensity Discharge lights. These are the lights that are actually arc lights, think about the strobe light on a camera, that flicker at a rate that our eyes see as a constant light. These were the original very white headlights on cars.

Here is a lot more than you probably want to know about them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_discharge_lamp


One of the strange characteristics of the HID lamps is that as a car with them approaches you on a rough, bumpy road – the headlights seem to flicker or blink. They really don’t, but your eye is fooled by the on/off of the arc discharge. Each time the arc strikes, it draws a really big slug of current. Most HID applications include a ballast to strike the arc and some filtering to even out the current draw from vehicle’s electrical system.

I looked at several of the “Anti-Flicker Relay” wiring harness adapters. In many cases the vehicle wiring cannot supply the slug of current needed to fire the HID lamp, even if it has an internal ballast. In this case a relay is wired back directly to the battery and the headlight ON/OFF switch is used as a signal to control the relay. Some relay harnesses include a big capacitor (4,700 to 10,000 microfarads) to further reduce the current surges required by the HID lamps. (Let’s not get into MOPAR vehicles where additional resistors are required to keep the computer from thinking that you have a burned out lamp…).

And, LED headlights can have their own set of issues. Here is more than you want to know about flickering LED headlights:

https://krmlight.com/how-to-fix-flickering-led-headlights/

It seems that many LED issues come from the LED lamps drawing less current than the halogen lamps and the computer thinks you have a defective lamp!

Because of the wide input voltage range for the Grote LED lights (9 – 32 volts), I am fairly sure that they use some sort of internal pulse-width modulated voltage regulator. A simple dropping resistor would be just too inefficient. I can’t get a solid answer from the company about what is in there, they are very proprietary about what they tell folks, but I will figure it out when I get a set! There will be some current surges if there is an internal switching regulator that I may have to deal with. Like any Jeep project, we’ll see.

Bob – now I’ll to try to answer your question. The LED headlights will draw less total power than an incandescent headlight. It’s not the total power, it’s how the power is drawn. I’m sure that the LED itself is pulsed on and off like an arc-discharge. But, from what little I know about LED’s, it draws a lot less power than an arc. Assume a lamp with a 27-watt high beam. That’s about 2.25 amps at 12-volts – average. But, if the LED is on 50% of the time, that becomes about 5-amps on, 0-amps off, still about a 27 watt average. If the LED is on a lower percentage, the current surge gets worse.

That pulsed current may cause a problem; that is why I am going to use a 10-amp converter for the lights. I’ll build the system on the bench before I go out to the truck. The good news – there ain’t no stinkin’ relays, computers or CAN buses in the ’48 to be bothered by these gadgets! TJones' halo lights, his eye shadow for the Orange Crush, have a solid state controller in them (a little computer), so I'm not surprised that they are a bit picky about how they get power.

Thanks guys - A good brain exercise this morning! Stay safe and stay well.

[5JeepsAz]

my brain is flicker on and off. So, lights are a way bigger deal than it seemed. Agree with yours above that we all can't wait for some activities, such as a garage sale binge a thon where I can search up some old school fog lights. Then it'll be solving the LED problems. Good info!

[gmwillys]

Great info as usual LarrBeard!

I too have been looking to upgrade the 2As lack luster headlamps. I'll have to look to where I found a 6volt set, (headlamp assy. And LED elements. I was in the process to figure out if anything else was needed to make work. Just have to Save my change to get the buckets first.

[TJones]

Excellent explanation LarrBeard!!!!

Can't tell you diddly about electric but I can definitely tell you about playing in the dirt:):)
I do know one thing the Wire Wizard had a hell of a time getting the LED headlights, turn signals and marker lights to work right on the orange crush like they should. We still cant figure out why if you have the marker lights on the turn signals don't work on the front end only, but if the headlights/marker lights are on at the same time they work as they should, go and try to figure that one out Guy's.

[LarrBeard]

I'll have to look to where I found a 6volt set, (headlamp assy. And LED elements.

I have a good friend who is a Project Manager at Grote down in southern Indiana. His background is mechanical, so for the first six months he was down there I had to be his tutor for a lot of things electrical and light related.

I've told him that Grote needs to just modify the electronics package to make a lamp that runs on nominal 6-volt systems. It doesn't have to run over 4.0 to 36 volts, just 5.5 to 8.0 volts, and folks with vintage 6-volt systems would be a great market.

But those folks are volume market people, they look at half-a-million units as a niche market, so we figure out how to use 6-volt to 12-volt converters.

[LarrBeard]

go and try to figure that one out Guy's.

Uhhh, an impedance mismatch between the bifurcated framistan and the bipolar flux capacitor?

Or, in other words, "I dunno...".

[gmwillys]

Now I have to see if I can find the video of the government transmission professor....