Jeepster She Runs

[dgoodenow]

After rebuilding the electrical parts to the distributor the other day and working on getting compression (several weeks), yesterday my tests showed good compression and strong spark for this early 1949 Willys Jeepster with the L head 134. The fuel tank is still out (needs sealing remember this Jeepster has been sitting in a shop for 40 years) so today I trickled a small amount of fuel into the carburetor and turned her over. She started right up and ran for about 3 to 4 seconds. I assume that was due to using up the little fuel that was in the carburetor. All the gauges work based on what little I can tell and all looks as it should, the oil level is up and looks clean. My question is do any of you engine experts have any advice for starting an engine that has been sitting for such a long time. Thanks.

7753

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE=dgoodenow;15929] My question is do any of you engine experts have any advice for starting an engine that has been sitting for such a long time. Thanks."

Well, since it runs, you have done 90% of the recommended things, or gotten past the initial pre-start checklist. Since it starts and runs, you might want to rig an auxiliary fuel tank, maybe a gallon or so, to let it run long enough to get warm. Just make sure the auxiliary tank is secure. Once an engine starts and the celebration begins, spilling a gallon or so of gas under the vehicle adds a certain urgency to the event.

The main thing is to change the oil and filter before you run it very much. That old oil is dirty and the filter may have "engine cooties" living in it. Do an oil change, run it for about 8-hours total, then drain and fill it again. That new oil you put in only 8-hours ago will probably come out looking like a 3,000+ mile oil change.

The Jeep books suggest that a straight 30-weight oil is the preferred oil, and since you have not had the engine apart, I would suggest straight 30-weight. New chemistry oils are slicker than old oils and old seals may not hold them in place. Don't rush out and go with a synthetic of some sort. Once you run the engine enough to make sure that things don't leak, Valvoline VR-1 10W30 is a good choice, but I would not recommend it if you see leaky main seals.

I think you have already done a fresh coolant fill on that engine and radiator, so you should be good to go there.

It looks like it's waking up nicely.

Thanks for sharing with us. Keep us informed!

[dgoodenow]

I followed your advice and she started up and ran for a minute or so and than I noticed a fuel pump leak. I shut her down to investigate and it looks like the fuel pump is leaking from the breather ports. It's now off and I ordered a new one. The fuel pump is the AC 9306 dual action with the glass bulb. While the fuel pump is off I think I will replace the oil filter hoses, they look pretty bad and the inlet hose it easier to replace with the fuel pump off. Thanks again for your help.

[LarrBeard]

I think I will replace the oil filter hoses, they look pretty bad and the inlet hose it easier to replace with the fuel pump off.

When you get the new hoses, take a long hard look at the fittings on the hose that dumps into the timing gear cover. We have had two instances here on the Forum where poorly crimped fittings ended up leaking - one case was a catastrophic failure that gave things an oil bath.

In both cases the guys went to a local hose supplier and had him make hoses for them. It was a a bit more expensive, but a lot of peace of mind.

That's the way it goes - one thing at a time...

[bmorgil]

Right on Larry, do not buy the hose if it is not custom made for you, or clearly made in U.S.A..

[dgoodenow]

The new fuel pump came today and I install it. It leaks from the small air hole on the left side under the glass fuel bowl. I contacted the provider and he said my oil system is clogged. What does that mean and is it possible? Thanks.

[LarrBeard]

The new fuel pump came today and I install it. It leaks from the small air hole on the left side under the glass fuel bowl. I contacted the provider and he said my oil system is clogged. What does that mean and is it possible? Thanks.

Ok Guys - somebody else chime in on this. I don't know everything about fuel pumps, but there is an alarm going off in the back of my head saying "BS ...BS...BS...BS"

I know a split diaphragm will dump fuel out of the overflow chute to keep from flooding the crankcase and diluting lube oil with gas - but a clogged oil system causing a leak????

[bmorgil]

What??? Larry can smell BS a mile a way. Good call Larry, Just when I thought I was old enough to hear them all.

Totally agree it is leaking past the diaphragm. The exact reason for the "weep" hole. To let you know the diaphragm is failing. A failed diaphragm can indeed fill the crankcase with fuel.

[gmwillys]

That is a new diagnosis of crap. Bmorgil is right on with his thought process.

[dgoodenow]

I agree. After the second contact with the provider he seemed to soften. His reason made no sense to me but I wanted the experts to weigh in. The provider have made provisions for me to return the pump. All that's lost is another week waiting. Thanks guys for your confirmation of the problem.

[5JeepsAz]

So many times I heard something, checked with the forum, went back to the source and got the 'ok, we better do it right' answer. Glad you got it corrected!

[mrgrtt123]

This forum has always been helpful. I am so glad that it is still around for Willy's query.

[dgoodenow]

Well the fuel pump was back ordered and took a couple of week to get here. It arrived today and I installed it a fired her up. She ran pretty good, smoked some from both the exhaust and engine compartment, but that soon stopped. There was a rattling sound at first, like a bearing or bushing was unhappy, but that stopped all of a sudden after a few minutes. I ran her for about 30 minutes and it ran up to temperature, a little higher than I wanted, but it was stable at about 200 degrees or so. It is sensitive to choke and wants the choke out some to run at its best. I think the carburetor is still not right. Also, I hear a light tappet noise, not sure which cylinder but it is pretty light, so hopefully it will calm down after more run time. Other than that I was pretty happy that after 40 years it would run that well at first start-up. Any suggestion for future run time would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[bmorgil]

Good news indeed dg! A few things can cause a rattling sound when a motor has been setting for 40 years. The most common being rust and build up in the combustion chamber. It is good that it "went away". If it always seems to do it when its cold but goes away when it warms up, a little piston slap would be my guess. Cylinders and rings getting worn.

It will run a little hotter when it is sitting still. A good flow of air would help cool it down. See what happens if you run a large fan in front of it while you have it running. 200 is a little hot. I would expect 180 if it has an accurate 160 thermostat. You may want to give the radiator another good flush and use the "engine running" technique. A few ways to do that but removing the radiator cap and opening the petcock valve, and running a garden hose in the radiator with the engine running works well. The idea being, if there was a lot of rust and corrosion built up inside the motor, it would be good to get it out. You may want to take a look at the thermostat to be sure of two things. That crud didn't loosen up and get stuck in it and also to check it to be sure it really does start to open at 145 deg and is fully open at 160 deg, the way a classic 160 deg thermostat should operate. Use the LarrBeard boil it in moms kitchen pan and thermometer technique. You might just find why it's running warmer than it should. I also wouldn't trust the gauge till you verify it.

Sensitive to choke, most importantly it seems to like it, is telling you its lean. A reason why it might be running hot for sure. I think running it for a while might clean out the carb. If not, that idle circuit might have picked up a piece of crud or, there is a vacuum leak.

You should pull the side cover and check the tappet clearance on all of them for sure. Now that you have her running it wont take you long to get her to purr.

[dgoodenow]

I started her up again this morning and I can now run it at ideal, and it accelerates nicely, but sometimes after acceleration it wants to stop. Getting better, but not there yet. Also, I tried to shift it in gear with the engine running and it would not go. Stopped the engine put it in gear and with the ignition switch off pushed the foot starter with the clutch in, the car moved. The clutch was stuck. After some on-line research I tried to run the engine at high rpm and pushed the clutch in and out a few times, sometimes before acceleration and sometimes during. That did it, the clutch is now free. I think I lucked out on that one. It still wants to heat up and the water pump leaks when it runs, stops afterwards. It looks like the front seal is leaking. Thanks for the input.

[LarrBeard]

It still wants to heat up and the water pump leaks when it runs, stops afterwards. It looks like the front seal is leaking.

After sitting 40-years, I suspect you are going to find a lot of seals that leak. The '48 truck sat 35-years and we just replaced every seal we saw. And - even so, I've had to replace a couple that were not what they were supposed to be.

If you have a leaky water pump - just get a rebuilt or new one. Overhauling a water pump just isn't worth the work you are going to put into it. We've found - the hard way - that even though something might be able to be fixed - sometimes it just is better to spend the time and money doing something really important.

The thermostat is probably junk after sitting that long. It always worried me when the head temperature heated up towards 200 degrees before the thermostat opened and cooled things down. The new Milodon 16400 thermostat has totally changed how the truck heats up - it just eases up to 160 and stays there.

[dgoodenow]

The water pump started to leak more and it still runs hot, so I bit the bullet and ordered a new water pump and thermostat yesterday. I removed both today and the thermostat is very rusted, I'm sure it is the cause of the problem. The water pump looked ok but if it leaks the seal must be bad. I hope the parts come soon. Also, do you guys think a fuel additive to the tank would help with the idle coughing problem? Thanks.

[GreyWilz]

The water pump started to leak more and it still runs hot, so I bit the bullet and ordered a new water pump and thermostat yesterday. I removed both today and the thermostat is very rusted, I'm sure it is the cause of the problem. The water pump looked ok but if it leaks the seal must be bad. I hope the parts come soon. Also, do you guys think a fuel additive to the tank would help with the idle coughing problem? Thanks.

Sounds like you're going to discover more things to fix. I would like to know too if fuel additives could help these old machines.

[bmorgil]

The best thing you can do for these old rigs would be to drain out all old fuel and keep it full of fresh fuel. The fuel needs to be a non-oxygenated fuel, in other words no alcohol in it. Ethanol will deteriorate many of the components in the old vintage fuel systems. You want to find a source for recreational fuel or, non-oxygenated.

I am not a fan of fuel additives. Good fuel is full of additives and seldom needs more. Alcohol can be used to remove water from fuel. If you use a "Dry Gas" additive make sure you run it all out. StayBil is effective for storage of fuel for over the winter. I have always felt it is much better to run the fuel out of the carburetor and tank if you can. Fuel sitting for a few months in a carburetor bowl almost always eventually leads to issues in the carb.

So in my opinion leave the additives on the shelf unless you suspect water in the fuel or long term storage, then be sure to run it all out.

[dgoodenow]

The water pump and thermostat came yesterday and I installed them this morning. Started it up and it runs nice and cool. Ran it for about 1 hour and runs better and better as time goes on. There is still a cough at idle but I notice that the timing light fade and the cough occur at the same time. I think I still have an electrical problem rather than a fuel problem. I have 6 volts at the points and the ground side of the points show connectivity to ground, could the point gape be too wide? Thanks.

[LarrBeard]

GMWillys uses a matchbook cover to set the point gap. Do they still make paper matchbooks?

0.020" seems to be the universal point setting.

[bmorgil]

You can still find paper matchbooks and I still grab them when I see them. Paper matches and matchbook covers can be used to make a few quick tools. I always have a paper matchbook with some matches in it lying around. Once my dad (Korea MASH unit 1950) showed me how the 'fuzzy" end of a ripped off match could be used to gently and effortlessly pluck a foreign object right out of your eye.

.020" is a good number from the Briggs and Straten to the Willys.

[LarrBeard]

" Once my dad (Korea MASH unit 1950) showed me how the 'fuzzy" end of a ripped off match could be used to gently and effortlessly pluck a foreign object right out of your eye. :

Another great life hack from Doc Dana .....

[dgoodenow]

I double checked the points gape and it was .020 and I noticed that the points would not spark all the time with the ignition on and the points open when I inserted a small screw driver between the points. That told me I had a grounding problem on the ground side of the points. I tightened all the nuts and cleaned the ground strap and now I have spark at all times. It still coughs on idle, but excellerates well and no cough at high RPM. That tells me the idle circuit in the carburetor is not working right. Any thoughts.

[LarrBeard]

??"Any thoughts.?"

Yeah, but I have a question first. What carburetor does the Jeepster use. Carter YF? Is there a tag on it with as a series number, such as YF Carter, 738, 768, 832, 924, 938, 951, 2071, 2392 ?

I want to look at carburetor details before I start to make suggestions.

The quick non-specific answer is going to be "Take it off and clean out the idle passages", but I'd like to know just which carb we're going to work on first.

[GreyWilz]

You can still find paper matchbooks and I still grab them when I see them. Paper matches and matchbook covers can be used to make a few quick tools. I always have a paper matchbook with some matches in it lying around. Once my dad (Korea MASH unit 1950) showed me how the 'fuzzy" end of a ripped off match could be used to gently and effortlessly pluck a foreign object right out of your eye.

.020" is a good number from the Briggs and Straten to the Willys.
Pretty cool trick!

[bmorgil]

I am not sure what you mean by coughs at idle. Is it just idling and coughing or misfiring, or it wont take the gas and backfires? Problems in the idle circuit usually lead to problems like it wont idle. If the idle circuit is suspect the first thing to do is see if the idle mixture screw has any effect. If you screw it all the way in does the engine stall? If you turn it out does the engine begin to run rough at some point? If it passes those tests, the idle circuit is functioning.

[dgoodenow]

Thanks. It has the Zenith PN 647572. It runs at idle but misses sometimes (coughs) but there is no backfire. I tried to adjust the idle mixture screw and it will only cause the engine to falter when almost completely turned in. Turning it out does not affect the engine at all, or at least very little.

[bmorgil]

The idle mixture screw does not make dramatic changes when turned out. If it is making a difference it's working. If it will stall it out when turned in it is definitely working. To adjust the idle mixture turn the screw in until the engine RPM's start to drop or the engine starts to stumble, then turn the screw out until it reaches the highest RPM and stop there. You are trying to find the spot where it runs the best at the highest RPM, screwed in as far as you can.

Misfires while idling are almost always traced back to some type of ignition issue or a burnt and/or out of adjustment valve. Fouling plugs, wires, dirty points or weak coil among a few things. If it is running well down the road at a light load, I would look into the ignition components. Igniting the mixture at idle and under load requires a good spark.

[dgoodenow]

The cough is gone. I removed the idle mixture screw and sprayed some seafoam into the hole and ran compressed air into the opening. Returned the screw and the cough is now gone. Thanks for all the help. She runs well at idle, accelerates well, and runs at high rpm too. Nice running engine for one that has been sitting for 40 years.

[LarrBeard]

That was a good idea - a lot easier than pulling the carburetor.

We'll add that trick to the list of "good ideas" to try.

Now - the next thing to work on is ....... ?

[dgoodenow]

The next thing is brakes. I already replaced three of the wheel cylinders but I am having trouble removing the passenger side rear hub. I need to replace that one and the master as well. Hopefully the lines will be clear, if not than the lines as well. It now runs and moves but needs to stop too I assume.

[LarrBeard]

"It now runs and moves but needs to stop too I assume."

Our best answer about brakes came from one of the phone commercials:

"Well, if the brakes don't stop it, something else will."

Yeah, brakes are important - don't skimp on them. 1948-era brakes give us a new appreciation for "safe stopping distance".

[dgoodenow]

The car now stops. I replaced the brake and master cylinders and flushed out the brake lines. Blead the brake system today and all is good. With a vehicle that has been sitting for 40 years and when I got her she had no spark, no compression, no fuel, the clutch was struck, no brakes, and no title. She now runs drives and stop like it should and is titled in my name. Also, I sent the radio out for repair. When the radio comes back it should play, all the lights works, the heater works, and all the parts are there as from the factory. The question now is what do I do with her. I guess I could sell her, I bought her cheep and should be able to get a good price for it now. I could also restore her, but I just did that for the other one and to do it all over again, seams a little redundant. I think I mighty just keep it the way it is to let people see what a 73 year old vehicle should look and drive like. Thanks everyone for all your suggestions and help along the way.

[5JeepsAz]

Congratulations!

[gmwillys]

Great! In my opinion, keep the second Jeepster for an every day driver when weather isn't quite favorable for your prestine restoration. Then when offered a good price let it go.

[dgoodenow]

I took the Jeepster for a ride today and she drove very nicely. Starts easy, runs nice, steers, shifts, and stops very nicely. She had more power than I thought and she drove up the hills well. It's still pretty rough to look at, but all that can be fixed with some time, elbow grease and money.

[gmwillys]

Pretty is only skin deep. It's the heart and soul that makes for a good cruise.

[LarrBeard]

I took the Jeepster for a ride today and she drove very nicely. Starts easy, runs nice, steers, shifts, and stops very nicely. She had more power than I thought and she drove up the hills well. It's still pretty rough to look at, but all that can be fixed with some time, elbow grease and money.

Did you get honks, head turns and thumbs-up's?

[bmorgil]

Mechanically sound is the way to go. Ill take functional and a good time over nice to look at but cant drive any day!

[5JeepsAz]

Could be maybe you keep and restore? That kind of rough to look at? Glad you got in a nice drive