Cajun's '59 CJ5 Resto

[Cajun98]

I guess I should start posting some pics of the progression of my restoration on my '59 CJ5. I started blowing it apart back in October. I was amazed at how easily the 61 y/o nuts and bolts came out. The deeper you dig, the more issues seem to pop up. I've got rust in the floor pans, rear floor riser and next to the tail lights. Nothing terrible but it'll all be getting cut out and replaced with new metal. Once the rust repairs are made, I'll have everything media blasted and then epoxy primed. I've taken hundreds of pics as I go so hopefully I can figure out how to put it all back together.

[Cajun98]

The only bolts that gave me any grief were the ones holding the tub to the chassis, but I eventually won out. The roll bar was welded to the frame so had to cut that loose to finally get the tub free. The tranny and diff were covered in decades of grease and dirt. I scraped and used the pressure washer to get everything clean. I kept finding white bits of rock-like material. I finally realized it was oyster shell! My grandparents long driveway was covered in crushed oyster shell and it was embedded in the grease and gunk.

[TJones]

Welcome Cajun98!!!!!
It looks like a Great start to a restore, and you are going about it the right way.
Don’t be afraid to ask questions on here, there are 3 Guys on here that know everything from bumper to bumper on your project and like you said keep posting pictures.
We Love Pictures!!!!

[gmwillys]

Job well done Cajun! Thank you for posting the pictures so we can follow along.

[bmorgil]

Go Cajun Go! You are on the right track for sure. Take it apart and put it back together. Having minimal rust to repair is a great start. I also had a roll bar welded to the frame. At least it was installed correctly! Roll bars don't work very well when they are not hooked to the frame. You have to love your grinder and cut off discs. The pictures of the progression will be priceless.

[Cajun98]

Hat channels, floors and bed supports all have varying degrees of rust. I'll end up going with replacement floors and hat channels. On the rear floor supports, think I can cut the rot out and weld in new metal.

[Cajun98]

The tool box had rotted out so that will have to be replaced. The area where the back of the toolbox, bed floor and rear floor support all meet up is gonna take some serious work. I think I can just cut and replace with good metal. If I can find anyone in my area that carries 18 gauge sheet metal

[TJones]

Where are you located Cajun98?

[Cajun98]

TJones, I’m in NE Louisiana, near Winnsboro. Originally from down near Lake Charles.

[TJones]

If you have a Tractor Supply close they should have what you need!

[Cajun98]

I'll give them a call. The big steel supplier that's nearby doesn't sell anything thinner than 16 gauge, in 4x8 sheets. I'll check with TS. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Cajun98]

Once I got the tub off the chassis, I built a "redneck rotisserie". It works great. I can roll it around the shop as needed and it makes it a breeze to access the underneath of the jeep. I modeled it after the one that I built for my '78 280Z.

[gmwillys]

Cajun, I bought a 4'X12' piece of 18 gage from one of our local fabrication shops. If you don't have any luck at Tractor Supply, let me know how much you need. We can work out a trade.

[TJones]

Once I got the tub off the chassis, I built a "redneck rotisserie". It works great. I can roll it around the shop as needed and it makes it a breeze to access the underneath of the jeep. I modeled it after the one that I built for my '78 280Z.

Damn that needs to be patented Cajun!!!!

[bmorgil]

Cajun, gm and you could give a clinic on how to build effective heavy shop tools from wood. Fantastic rotisserie!

[LarrBeard]

That is 'way cool - ingenious!

[Cajun98]

gmwillys, thanks for the offer. I'm going to check with TS today. TJones, I can't take credit for the rotisserie. I first found it on a Datsun zcar site. Works great on the datsun using the factory bumper mounts but still needs a few tweaks to improve it for the Willys. bmorgil, thanks for compliment. Necessity is the mother of being cheap, lol.

[5JeepsAz]

I just learned about rotisseries - this one is ingenious Cajun. wtg & thanks for the pictures. Tremendous build you got going on...

[AJ-MJ]

WOW! :rolleyes:
That "Datsun zcar" rotisserie is cool. I searched YouTube and found some great info on on how to build the rotisserie/pushover jig/tip over jig. This old dog just learned another trick. THANKS! What did you use for attachment points?

[Cajun98]

AJ-MJ, the back structure bolts into the four holes where the tail gate hinges are. In the front, I use the bolt holes where the fenders bolt to the tub. I'm planning to modify it to make it a little more stable. In the back, I'll keep bolting into the hinge location but I'm going to also extend the the frame up so that you can use a long U-bolt to connect to the upper tail gate fastener. That should get rid of some of the wobble. In the front, if you use two bolts on each side, you should be good. You may have to notch the 2x6 in a few places to clear a couple flanges on the tub.

[Cajun98]

Started drilling out spot welds in the hat channels. There are a lot of welds there! Also had some rot in the rear floor supports. Just cut out the bad and welded in new metal.

[Cajun98]

Same problem with the hat channels under the floor pans. Multiple spots where it rusted through. It's amazing how much crud that can accumulate inside the channels over the years. I'm surprised they didn't completely rust to pieces. I'm trying to save the original hat channels if I can.

[bmorgil]

Looking good Cajun. I would say I have certainly seen MUCH worse. The hat channels are seldom in good shape and they usually take the floor boards with them. Yours really don't look that bad. A lot of original there including the paint!

[Cajun98]

When I removed the fuel tank, I could see a lot of rust in the floor in the vicinity of the hat channel. When I started digging, this is what I found! An old t-shirt was stuffed into the channel to fill the void and then had bondo slathered over the top. I think the guy that painted it back in 1980 had to have done this. The amazing thing is that only the floor rusted out. The hat channel under the cloth was still solid. The thing you find!!

[Cajun98]

The hat channel under the toe boards is pretty rusted too. But the wooden inserts are still as solid as can be!

[5JeepsAz]

Awesome find. Was it forest gumps smiley t-shirt? Or some local jeep club? Hah!!!

[bmorgil]

Az has the right idea, t-shirt goes on the wall.

[mrgrtt123]

I can see the progress with your recent update. I really hope that this build will turn out fine. I am so excited to see the outcome.

[Cajun98]

mrgrtt123, I'm steady making progress. It's supposed to rain tomorrow so I will be in the shop all day working on new floor pans!! I hope to get it done by this summer! My mom is almost 80 y/o. This CJ5 was her's when she was in high school. I want her to be able to drive it again. That keeps me motivated.

[Cajun98]

I am tired of drilling out spot welds but I finally got the hat channels removed from both floor pans, intact. What a pain! I thought I would be able to salvage the hat channels but I think I may be money ahead going with new steel. KW has hat channels that aren't welded together so I can use my old ones as a pattern to get the angle correct.

[Cajun98]

I posted this picture earlier, but has anyone seen a back seat mount like this? Not sure where the seat came from but it was with the jeep when it arrived.

[Cajun98]

Took the tub off the rotisserie and made a couple of oversized sawhorses that allow me to place the tub upside down. Makes it easier to work on the floor pans. Once off the chassis, this tub sure has a lot of flex. I got it leveled, squared, and braced up, and finally got the nerve to start cutting floor pans. I made a pattern with poster board so hat I can duplicate all the hole for chassis mounts, etc, on the new floor pans.

[Cajun98]

The new pans from KW give you plenty of extra metal for trimming to get a good fit. I was at Harbor Freight and grabbed a pack of those little clamps that hold the patch panel in place, with a nice gap for butt welding. They work like the cat's meow! Got the panel tack welded on the top and inside edge. I used plug welds on the outside and back edges and then stitch welded to complete the job. I'll dress the welds with a flapper disc next. Pretty darn happy with the results. Tomorrow, we tackle the passenger floor pan. This may be a little more involved. I'm going to have to make repairs to the rear floor riser also, as it has a lot of rot where the tool box was located, but I think it can be salvaged. Time in the shop, working on the CJ, is good therapy for what ails ya!!

[gmwillys]

Very well done Cajun. Harbor Freight is a great source for the odds and ends specialty body work items. The spot weld cutters work well for removing the old panels, and beats the price I paid for from Woodward Fab.... 1/4 of the price for the same cutters.

[bmorgil]

Nice Cajun! Its coming back to life. Those pieces fit pretty well. Hows the quality?

Don't you just Love/Hate Harbor Freight? They have what you need for a price that only China can provide, and I can afford!

[LarrBeard]

"Once off the chassis, this tub sure has a lot of flex."

When the restorer had the cab of the '48 on the rotisserie, he suspected that it was going to flop all over the place once he cut the rotten floor pans and door sills out, so he welded some angle iron across the door openings and several other places to keep what was going to be left of the cab rigid.

Yo are doing some very nice sheet metal work there.

[Cajun98]

LarrBeard, I ended up with the tub upside down and shimmed up before cutting. Nothing moved when I cut out the old floor, and everything stayed square so that I could get it tacked in place. bmorgil, the floorpans were of nice quality. They give you plenty metal around the edges. The only thing I noticed was that the hole for the fuel tank line was off by about 1/4 inch. No biggie. I made a cardboard template with all the required holes that need to be cut. I'd heard some bad press about the Classic replacement panels but these were fine. I think it had more to do with their hat channels not having the correct geometry.

[bmorgil]

Cajun, for some reason the fuel tank fuel line hole is always in the wrong spot. Mine was also off. I have read a few who say that. I think that hole "varied" in production. When you put the tank in, you may have to "adjust" the spout. It also seldom fits perfectly into the hole on the side of the body. It can be quite far off. This is common I have actually seen a few guy's chop up the side of the body and relocate the fill hole. There is no need. You will usually have to hold the tank and bend the neck to fit the hole. It is not too difficult to do. On mine the new body and new tank wasn't close. It took a little bending of the spout but it fit right in.

[gmwillys]

A little bracing goes a long way when replacing floors. On the A1 I did a few years back, the only piece that connected the cowl with the rest of the body was the top of the rockers/door opening. A lot of tweaking,(twerking in LarrBeards case) and some 1" square tubing made everything square again. The driver's floor was tacked into place to keep everything in check, then the body was removed from the frame to continue the floor replacement.

There is no shame in buying what you need from Horrible Freight. If I were to claim to be a professional, then I would shell out the money for the better tools, but using odds and ends from China works better for the budget. It seems that a lot of the premium tools are now made overseas. I hate buying overseas, but they have priced themselves out of the budget for most, and I paid off what I do own 25 years ago, and am not looking to owe on a tool truck account.

[TJones]

Damn you do some nice work there GM

[LarrBeard]

There is no shame in buying what you need from Horrible Freight.

The 1/2-inch box end wrench from HF gets lost/stolen/walks-away just as quickly as a Craftsman...

[bmorgil]

The 1/2-inch box end wrench from HF gets lost/stolen/walks-away just as quickly as a Craftsman...

And with a lot less pain!

gm is the King of rust repair. Truly fearless.

[Cajun98]

Beautiful work, gmwillys!! Not sure I'm ready to jump off in the deep end and go to that extent, yet. I'm the same as you as far as tools. I can't see spending crazy money when I can get functional for less. I spent the day working on the passenger floor pan. Got the old cut out and assessed the extent of damage from the old rust worm. Looks like I'm gonna have to do a bit of work on the floor riser. The flange is pretty eaten up. So is the area where they put the doubler. Feels like eating an elephant, lol. One bite at a time.

[LarrBeard]

"Feels like eating an elephant, lol. One bite at a time."

Or, as Ira/Pelago taught us; "Just one bolt at a time"

[gmwillys]

That's right Cajun, one bite at a time. You are making good progress though it doesn't feel like it. Yes the flanges for the riser are usually in tough shape. I've had to cut it out completely and weld in new with some scraps I had on hand. The wagon project will need new flanges formed for the tool box walls. I need to invest in a shrinker/stretcher to form the curve at the corners of the tool box.

[Cajun98]

gmwillys, I’m scavenging too. My original tailgate is past being repairable, so I’m cutting out all the good metal. It’ll go into repairing the riser. I think I even have some usable metal left from the floor pans I cut out! Gotta make good use out of what you have!

[LarrBeard]

Ira/Pelago and GMWillys have commented that the original metal is easier to work with than modern metal. It may be something to do with being very similar alloys from the same time frame.

[gmwillys]

That is a true statement about the metal. I much rather use donor steel from the '50s. It takes heat better than modern steel without warping. The second picture was of a floor replacement on a M151A2, using some vintage steel to form the complex curves to match the original contours. On the M38A1 project that I had posted some of the pictures from, I was lucky to find two donor tubs that were too far gone in the areas that I didn't need. We did get a third, but the body was too nice to cut up. I did use the frame from the third to set the repaired body to verify the body mounts were correct, while the original frame was being rebuilt.

[bmorgil]

Every time I see that body hanging on the engine stand, genius gm!

[gmwillys]

A better trick was the wagon body. That was a bit more work. Hopefully by the end of this year, I'll have a two post lift to aid in dropping the body back on.

[Cajun98]

Well, took a few days off to take the wife to the Texas Hill Country. Happy wife, Happy life! Worked on the tail light panels today. They had both rotted out behind the body mounts, as usual. I was able to cut out the bad and fab up some replacement panels. I'm happy with the way they turned out. For reference, the body is sitting upside down.

[Cajun98]

I'm pretty happy with my patch panels. Now I have to tackle to rear floor riser. That's gonna be a bear.

[TJones]

Your doing a damn good job there Cajun!!!
Before long your baby will be in the paint booth.
And you are right on about the riser it is a bear, but it looks like your taking your time and that’s the key.
Time and patience!!!

[gmwillys]

I agree with TJones. Very well done Sir.

[LarrBeard]

Nice tack and stitch technique. Are you using a heat sink backer?

[Cajun98]

LarrBeard, I'm not using any heat sink. I just go slow, trying not to overheat the metal. I have an occasional blow through but this old steel welds up pretty nicely. I have all my measurements for locating the new body mounts and holes for the tail lights. Looks like I'll be taking several weeks off from the project as I have to head out, overseas, for work, starting this weekend.

One more question for the braintrust. How are you guys going about getting to the light rust that forms in between the body panels, where they're spot welded together? I want to treat all these areas to delay/prevent it's return.

[bmorgil]

Cajun, I use these products with great success. https://www.eastwood.com/paints/rust-solutions/treatment.html Their inside frame coating is very good. Very thin it gets everywhere.

[Cajun98]

Thanks, bmorgil! I'll take a look at them. I think I still have an Eastwood catalogue laying around someplace!

[gmwillys]

I use a weld through primer to prep the panels before installation. I have found that any good self etching primer will work in a pinch. I like to use the Rust oleum self etching primer rattle cans. It doesn't effect the weld too much, and most paint sticks to the primer well.

https://www.eastwood.com/ew-self-etching-weld-thru-primer-16-1-oz-aero.html?SRCCODE=TXT00020&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI95agtrbd7wIVrPLACh3ZfQYoEAAYASAA EgL49PD_BwE

[Cajun98]

I’ve got a good weld thru primer that I’m using on all the areas that will be hard to paint and between sandwiched metal that I plug weld. Don’t want to be doing all this work again in my lifetime!! Thanks again for all the advice.

[TJones]

There is one thing for sure Cajun you are doing it RIGHT!!!
Looks Great so far!!

[Cajun98]

TJones, I appreciate it. This Willys will go to one of my boys some day. I want it to last another 60+ years!!

[5JeepsAz]

Hey Cajun, ran over to see my mom today, 84. First time in her place, last year has been balcony get togethers only. Watched bonanza or rifleman or something on over air tv mid afternoon. Talked ahwile. It was good to see her. Thought of your build being for your mom! I'll trust the ones who know how good your work is to say as much, but it looks good progress.

[TJones]

TJones, I appreciate it. This Willys will go to one of my boys some day. I want it to last another 60+ years!!

There is no doubt it will last another 60 plus years and it will be a Great memory for your boys to look back on and think “Dad did this for us”!!!!!

[Cajun98]

Well, I'm back after an almost 3 month hiatus. Work and life sure can get in the way. Had to spend a few months in the lovely Middle East for work but I'm done with that till it cools off a little. I finally found some cold roll 18 gauge steel. That was like pulling teeth. Covid, I guess. Anyway, I'm getting ready to get back to work. Question for the brain trust. How square are the bodies on these old jeeps? I've got mine all shimmed up and everything is level but when I take crossing measurements, I'm always off by about a 1/2". That's the way it was when I took the tub off of the chassis. It's never been wrecked. I want it straight but how straight were they to start with?

[5JeepsAz]

Alright. I'm finally asking. Why call it a hat channel?

[LarrBeard]

In a cross section, it looks like a fedora ...

[Cajun98]

I just got all new hat channel from KW. I thought I'd be able to salvage mine but finally decided it was a case of diminishing returns. I got the hat channel that's not welded up. That way I can get everything aligned like I like and tack it together. Next on my list of things to do is to get an air conditioner for my shop. This heat and humidity is crazy. Today, I cut out over half of the rear floor riser and got the new piece trimmed and clamped into place. Before I final weld that, I have to add a three inch strip of sheet metal to my rear floor, where it meets up with the tool box. Once that's in, I'll finish weld that riser in place. Then I'll have to address the rot along the bottom of the body, below the door openings. It's good to be back in the shop!!

[bmorgil]

Air conditioner for the shop..... priceless! Its got my vote.

How was the quality of the KW hat channel?

[Cajun98]

bmorgil, the hat channel looks really nice. I had heard bad reviews about it previously, but I believe they were referring to the channel that was already welded up. With the individual pieces, I should be able to lay it out like it needs to be. I still have my old hat channel, intact, to use as a pattern. I'll be back at it later today. I'm gonna wait for it to get a little hotter, lol.

[51 CJ3]

I put the biggest mini-split I could find in my shop last year after a run of 100+ temps. Trying to cool my shop down to the seventies is asking too much of it but it does pretty good when set for 80. Putting some seals around the big door (40w x 12t bifold) would help quite a bit but haven’t decided how I want to do it yet.

[Cajun98]

51 CJ3, I had the spray-in foam insulation put in my shop. I've got it set up to install a 220V window unit A/C that should do a good job of keeping the temps comfortable.

[gmwillys]

Your floor is going to turn out great! I'm with you on the hat channel. It is much better to buy the pieces and adjust them for what you actually have. In my little fab shop/garage/catch all, I have a little 110 A/C unit. It actually does pretty descent to remove any humidity, and makes life a bit more pleasant.

[bmorgil]

I got away with the biggest 110v window unit I could find, in a 3 car garage when I lived in Scottsdale. It did a pretty good job. You are right on about the humidity. Around here it is surprising how getting the 90 deg 90% humidity down to 80 and 50% feels so much better.

[Cajun98]

Anyone know if any reasonably priced metal-brakes that perform decently. I’ve got some sheet metal patches that have 45 and 90 degree bends. My attempts, last night, came out less than stellar.

[gmwillys]

I would spend a little extra to go first class, in my opinion. Woodward Fab puts out some good quality products, at not a huge amount of cash.

https://www.woodwardfab.com/product/3-in-1-bend-roll-shear-machine/

[bmorgil]

gm do you have any experience with the Eastwood stuff?

https://www.eastwood.com/metal-fabrication.html

[gmwillys]

I just purchased a multi-process welder, (MIG, TIG, Stick, Spool gun/Aluminum) from Eastwood. After two months of the purchase, everything has finally come in, so it will be rip and roaring to go. I'm hoping by this weekend I will break it in right by welding on some new tail light mounts on the trusty car hauler. In short, there will be some upcoming information and critique of the welder. I will say that it is the best bang for the buck that I came across. Plus one of my guys who builds rock crawlers in the evenings, has had one since they first rolled out, and he loves it.

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-mp250i-multi-process-250-amp-welder-mig-tig-arc.html

[Cajun98]

Got my floor riser welded in today. Also got the passenger side floor pan trimmed and fitted. Gonna get it welded in tomorrow. I'm finally starting to feel like I can see the end of the road as far as the rust repairs go.

[Cajun98]

Spent the day in the shop, fitting, trimming, welding, grinding, and sweating! Got a good bit done. The floors and tunnel are pretty much done. I had a lot of rust along the passenger side, below the door opening. I cut out the bad and installed the patch panel and got it welded. I just need to dress the welds. Next on the list are some minor repairs to the toe boards, installing the new toolbox that I got from KW (not impressed at all with the quality), and finally, installing all the new hat channel to the bottom of the floor pans. Slow and steady wins the race!!

[bmorgil]

Looking good Cajun. What could the KW tool box piece have done better?

[Cajun98]

bmorgil, the fit and finish is just not up to snuff. I believe the piece is made in the Philippines. Welds look like they were dressed with a 40 grit angle grinder. The stiffening beads extend too far forward. They should stop just shy of where the passenger seat mounts bolt down. I'll either have to modify via cut and weld or cut my seat mounts in half and mount with only one bolt on each side. I'll get it to fit but it's gonna be more work than it should be.

[bmorgil]

I see on the web site that box is supposed to fit 1946 thru 1971 CJ's. I have to wonder about that. OMNIX lists a different box for 1955 thru 1971. I am pretty sure there were changes made to give more leg room somewhere in there on the early CJ's. gmwillys will be more familiar with the CJ's and the tool box. I doubt that one size fit all here. Maybe they just figured here is an oversize cut it down? I am thinking there is at least three different tool box configurations.

I wouldn't chop the leg on the seat, a giveaway something isn't right there. You are working hard to keep all that original steel. Might as well be sure what you put back in from the reproduction stuff looks as good.

[Cajun98]

bmorgil, where did you see a different toolbox or he 55-71 CJ's. I'm not finding it on KW or anywhere else. I'm with you as far as keeping original as possible. If I can't find anything else, I guess I'll start modifying the toolbox to fit. On a side note, how do I enlarge my uploaded pics, so they show better when you click on the image?

[bmorgil]

I think the vendors web site is wrong. OMIX lists it as 46 thru 71.

https://www.quadratec.com/products/32507_12.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjw_o-HBhAsEiwANqYhpxmzIl05r9cRZ9ODEiJxSm01erxgAVhoyCYNW mmY9x3jLdfhKAEM1hoCwPgQAvD_BwE

https://www.omix-ada.com/tool-box-assembly-with-lid-46-71-willys-and-jeep-models.html

I am not sure why the picture wont enlarge. I think it might have to do with the original size upload. LarrBeard might know this one.

[Cajun98]

Took some measurements and the Omix toolbox is 1 1/4” wider. Depth is the same so foot space should be good. I’m thinking I’ll trim off the extra width from the outboard side. It definitely isn’t a one size fits all.

[gmwillys]

I have taken an original 3A tool box and fitted it to an M38A1, and the dementions were the same. The only difference was the A1 has a mount for the parking brake, and the front panel had to be changed to remove the Jeep script stamped. The military just had two vents. Omix is close, but not exact.... It gets you in the ball park, but you can barely see the field.

[bmorgil]

gm so the tool boxes are all the same? It sounds like your consensus is the boxes you buy today are a good starting point. I take it OMIX is the only supplier.

[Cajun98]

According to the gentleman I spoke with at KW, Omix is the only supplier out there. I should be able to make it fit but it's gonna be a pain to modify the top to get the seat mount brackets to fit correctly.

[gmwillys]

Omix is the only component manufacturer out there. KW does make American made piece parts that are really good quality, but not a tool box assembly. Take your time, you'll get your Omix piece straighten out.

[Cajun98]

Well, after a couple of frustrating days I finally have the new toolbox fitted for the most part. The fit around the tranny tunnel was off by about 1/2". I cut off the flange, added new steel and trimmed until I had a good fit. Then I rewelded the flange in place. The back of the toolbox, where it fits to the rear floor is proud, about 1/4". Not sure how I'm going to address that. I'm done for the day. Time for a cold, adult beverage!

[gmwillys]

If the 1/4" is weighing on your senses, I would section the lower part of the tool box to get rid of the excess. You'll thank yourself in the long run.

I had the Motor trend channel on last night out in the garage for back ground noise. Junkyard Empire had come on and I usually don't pay close attention to that particular show, but they had a Willy's MB on there, so my interest was peaked. Long story short, they put a MDJuan body on..... The rear of the hood stuck up about an inch or better, so it looked terrible in my opinion. The guy on the show was gripping that none of the body mount holes were drilled, but they sent it to paint before fitting the body fully...?..

[bmorgil]

Cajun it is sounding like you should have just bought the lid and hinge! You are ending up making the rest.

I agree gm, should have fitted that body At Least once! I put my Juan body kit on three times before paint. They give you a good start, a real good start. You may have to do a little work but its all there and ready for you to polish it up as far as you want to go. At the very worst you have all the material and parts in the general shape you need. Its just a matter of how far you want to go. I have sen a few examples and pictures where you can tell a "Kit" went straight from the crate to on. They look like the fit and finish is from a third world. I also know a few examples that were worked on a bit and have placed very well in shows.

[Cajun98]

gmwillys, your suggestion is probably the route I'll take. bmorgil, I thought about just replacing the lid but there was a lot more rust involved. With hindsight, I may have been better off repairing what I had. One thing I noticed is that the reproduction lid is larger than the original. I don't think it would fit in the original opening without a lot of work. On another subject, I'm also working on getting the tank positioned correctly so that I can cut out the holes for the fuel line and drain. Does the tank just rest on the floor pan or are there some type of rubber strips that should be there to keep it from rubbing. I don't remember anything there when I removed the tank.

[bmorgil]

It lays on strips.
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/fuel/tanks

You can use a few different things.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-939520?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjw55-HBhAHEiwARMCszstFbCshtJC6Zfipyw9BqJOFEM1RjRllnYSmS 8JHc3UM13nZQzD-qhoCjzAQAvD_BwE

[Cajun98]

bmorgil, thanks for the info. I should know better than to try to search online before my coffee kicks in, lol. You guys are great!!

[5JeepsAz]

I'm wondering about the crate jeeps. Lots of disputed facts. Some say they were plentiful and some say never happened. All that aside, why would we think those tubs were perfectly fitted? Isn't it possible that a 'not factory fitted' body would almost necessarily have fitment isues? That's what they do at the factory, right? Fitment and quality control? Perhaps all that has happened is the end user has become fitment and QC department. That said, soon enough we will be able to print these things to match whatever specs, so conceivably a guy could print to attach to wherever the holes are at on whatever frame is sitting there.

[Cajun98]

5JeepsAz, I'm finding out that the original bodies aren't exactly straight! I've been measuring and double/triple checking to make sure everything is just right. Turns out that my unwrecked, unmolested body isn't exactly straight and square. It's driving the OCD in me crazy, lol. But as Lone Watie said to Josie Wells in that classic western, we shall "Endeavor to Persevere"!

[gmwillys]

I was working on my 2A this evening. The original body fitment left a little to be desired in itself. I took the grill out to clean up the air funnel and knock down any surface rust. When all the bolts are removed the grill springs out of square. It takes some doing to get everything back into shape and get the bolts to all start.

[gmwillys]

Endeavor to persevere! One of my all time favorite movies..

OCD has to be checked at the door of the shop. Keep just enough to make everything to your liking.

[TJones]

I’ve been in the background on this chat thinking to myself of all the “oh sh%t” moments I had with the MDJuan body I bought and how frustrating it was especially with the front fenders and grille fitment, but the biggest problem was the windshield. It fit about as good as a square block in a round hole, it looked like someone ran over it with a 25,000 lb dozer.
I’m so glad I got mine from Jay at Willys Overland in Toledo, it was a few bucks more but the mounting holes were Perfect. He didn’t promise about anything else but the way it mounted on the frame, and I’m telling you it was exact!!
Cajun I feel your pain with the tool box, I got to the point where I got pissed and took a 4” cutoff wheel and cut the whole thing out and that’s where I mounted my battery
It sounds like you are determined enough and have enough skills to make what you have in your mind as a finished project, so keep up the Good Work Buddy!!!

[5JeepsAz]

One time I was mid project.. so I was watching them drop jeeps out of the high sky into combat zones. I drop something on my foot and it breaks. So that got me to thinking, what if? So you are running out there to the LZ, unwrap, get rolling, fuel issues? Where's supply? Some clipboard dude checkisting? It becomes a parts jeep if it fails battlefield QC? Hah. You start up, maybe, you drive ahead, kind of pulling aint she? Then you jam the brakes and it pulls you the hell the other way. Luckily, there ain't no road. So you don't notice?!? Thus, I proclaim to my OCD self that OCD didn't exist in those before times, couldn't, because only perfect things were never man made, and efficiency shall be rejected by my soul in these now and future times, left to fill the realm of of my dreams to guide me as a perfect hope, but not to guide my hand as I twerk a wrench. But none of that nonsense advanced my project, so I got off my butt chair (bucket for some), swept out the garage, then went for a drive. That helped alot. Because I like to drive Kaiser-Willy’s Jeep Truck as it was meant to be done: no matter what it looks like or acts like, it does function, so drive it like 'hell is coming to breakfast' ...

[Cajun98]

TJones, when I first started trying to fit the toolbox, I was thinking there was no way, I should have just tried to salvage my old box. I've now got it fit correctly except in the rear left corner, which is about 3/16" high. Looks like the only solution that I can see is to cut out a thin section of the vertical side wall and bring it down on that side. I stared at it for a couple hours last night and decided I'd attack it today. Wish me luck.

[Cajun98]

The toolbox is finally fitted to my satisfaction. Ended up cutting a relief in the inboard side and that worked like the cat's meow! Fits like it's supposed to. Got a few other things to do before I weld her in permanently. May also need a new pair of gloves!

[TJones]

There was no doubt in my mind you would get it Cajun!!!!

I did a lot of sitting on a bucket, smoking a Winston and having a cold one before I figured out what was my next move and often times changing my mind, cutting out what I just did and changing it completely.

[bmorgil]

Looking good now Cajun! The gloves are definitely done.

[Cajun98]

Yesterday, I laid the tub upside down and started fitting the new hat channel. Spent most of my time taking measurement off the chassis, trying to accurately locate the chassis mount points. After spending a few hours doing that, I decided to place the tub back on the chassis to double check. Turns out all of my original marked locations were within 1/8". I'm leaving for work today and won't be home for 5 weeks, so the hat channel will have to wait. It was neat seeing the tub back on the chassis again.

[gmwillys]

I trust a good tape measure, but nothing beats verifying proper fitment to the frame.

Be careful on your five week business trip. We'll catch you upon your return.

[5JeepsAz]

Safe trip ....

[Cajun98]

Wow, time sure does have a way of getting away from you. Finally got back in the shop this week and decided that I was tired of my CJ having the snaggle tooth look. My grandfather cut out a couple of the grill bars back when he first got the jeep. I assume it was for his winch. After 60+ yrs, that look was getting old. I took a piece of rebar and ground it down a little and it worked perfectly for bending some new grill bars out of 18 gauge mild steel. After a little tweaking, trimming, welding and grinding, baby has a new smile!! I'm very happy with the way it came out. Now to start back on some of the minor body work, taking out dings and little dents. Also have to get a shrinking disk and start working on the back floor, to get rid of the oil canning. Slow and steady!

[gmwillys]

Well done Cajun! Glad you made it back safe and sound.

[bmorgil]

Looking like its coming back now Cajun! Nice work on the grill. That is the one piece you always want to try to keep original. The signature Jeep grill.

[TJones]

WOW Cajun!!!!!
You are quite the fabricator, you cant hardly tell it was even cut out and replaced.
It turned out Really Sweet!!!!!

[LarrBeard]

"After a little tweaking, trimming, welding and grinding, baby has a new smile!!"

That sounds like an ad for an orthodontist; "See Cajun 98 if you want to give your baby a new smile."

Maybe a "Jeepodontist?"

It looks really great, a little paint and it never happened.

[Cajun98]

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen! I was worried that I wouldn't be able replicate the bars like the originals but once the paint is on you won't be able to tell. Now, for the next fun job. Fitting the new hat channel to the new floor pans.

[Cajun98]

Question for the brain trust. I just dropped off my axles to have a thorough going thru before I get them painted. Everything looked good as far as the axle shafts, gears, etc. Looks like all I'm going to need is a couple of overhaul kits with all the new bearings and seals. I found overhaul kits for my Dana 44 and 25 axles on KW. They're pretty proud of those kits!! Has anyone had any experience with these kits or is there a better way to go? I've also got my chassis off to the media blaster and will have it back next week with fresh paint. My media blaster/painter only has flat or gloss black paint and I can't decide which to go for. Any thoughts?

[bmorgil]

Cajun, if you can get the numbers from the bearings and search them. Also, Rock Auto is going to be tough to beat.

[LarrBeard]

"My media blaster/painter only has flat or gloss black paint and I can't decide which to go for. Any thoughts?"

I did the frame on the truck in a gloss black and I've not regretted it. I do keep it pretty clean and the glisten and shine does make the truck a bit sharper - but then I do pamper the truck a lot. As the kids say "YRMV".

Just make sure it is a good tough paint, especially if you're going 'touring" with the Jep.

[Cajun98]

LarrBeard, I'm leaning towards the gloss finish. It should also be easier to clean. Bmorgil, I'll start doing some price comparisons to see how they compare. I'm pretty sure I can get them cheaper thru Rock Auto if I take the time to source the parts separately.

[bmorgil]

I also use gloss on the frames. I have done it that way since I did one in flat and then saw how the oil stained it. It is more absorbent than gloss. Gloss is much eiasier to clean.

I wish I would have written all those numbers down. I probably did several times and now I don't know where! When you go to the RA site, look at your vehicle by application. It points out the manufacturers number for you. Just click on the "info" button and you will get all the Manufacturers information.

[Cajun98]

bmorgil, I spent an hour or so on RA last night looking up parts. It's time consuming but I think it'll be worth the time. I think I've also decided that the chassis will be dressed up in gloss black. I like the idea of it being easier to clean and not having oil stains to worry about.

[okiemark]

Looking through your photos brought back a lot of memories on my 57. You were lucky to have a much better tub than mine.

[Cajun98]

okiemark, I was surprised when I started the tear down. I was worried that it would have been a lot worse. The jeep spent its first 35 yrs in south Louisiana, twenty miles from the coast, before ending up in Montana for almost 30 yrs. You'd have thought the salty air would have dissolved it in that time. I'll take luck any time, lol.

[Cajun98]

Haven't posted in a while but I'm still grinding away at the project. I got my chassis and axles media blasted and painted gloss black. I then had a local mechanic go completely thru both axles. He was really surprised that the axles where in such good shape. We went ahead and changed out all the bearings and seals and then closed them up. I was going to remount the axles today and then put the tub back in position to do a double check on the chassis/tub mount locations but decided to take a different approach. I already had the tub upside down so I decided to take the chassis and place it on top of the inverted tub. I was a heck of a lot easier to accurately locate the frame and all the mounting bolt locations that way. Now that all of the bolt hole locations are marked, I can get busy plug welding the hat channels back in place. These projects are like trying to eat an elephant. One bite at a time, lol.

[gmwillys]

True, but some eat faster than others. You're making good progress though. The frame, body, and axles are looking great!

[bmorgil]

Looking like a perfect restoration Cajun! Nice way to go on the inverted frame and tub. Not quite as big as an elephant but clearly a "one bite at a time" project!

[Cajun98]

Ok, I'm trying to change out the transfer case mount in the cross member. I ordered the new mount from KW but can't get the old cup separated from the cross member. Did the original mount come with the cup welded to the cross member? I don't want to tear something up if it doesn't come off. It's either welded or completed rust together.

[bmorgil]

The cup is part of the cross member.

[Cajun98]

Thanks, bmorgil. I'm glad I didn't get stupid and tear into it with a big hammer.

[Cajun98]

Well, I was finally able to get out in the shop and get some work done on the CJ5. The new hat channel is all plug welded and dressed. That's a job I hope I never have to do again!! Today I get the new tool box welded in. Pretty happy with the way things turned out. That should be the conclusion of the big welding projects. I still have a few little areas that need some attention. I ordered a new worm gear and overhaul kit for my steering box, as well as a steering wheel puller. Mine seems to be fused to the tube, lol. Trying not to mess up my original steering wheel. Engine goes to the machine shop next month when I get back from work. It was running pretty good prior to the start of the resto but I'm going to have my mechanic take a look inside and get a better idea of the engine's condition. Lots of satisfaction gotten from working on the old girl!

[gmwillys]

Looking good Cajun. The hat channel can be a bugger, but you pulled it off extremely well. You are making good progress.

[bmorgil]

I agree, looking great Cajun! I would be very satisfied with the results you are getting. Just wait till it is rolling.

[LarrBeard]

Putting the chassis on the tub was a stroke of genius! We've not heard of that previously.

[Cajun98]

Putting the chassis on the tub was a stroke of genius! We've not heard of that previously.

I was able to talk my better half into helping place the tub on the rolling chassis, once! She said that was more than enough. I ended up losing several of my mounting point marks and needed to locate them again. I already had the tub sitting on sawhorses upside down and it was a ton easier laying the bare frame on top of the tub. Took about 10 minutes to get everything nice and square. All of the mounting holes are drilled dead on.

[Cajun98]

Haven't posted much lately. Still slowly chipping away at the old girl. I had a question about media blasting. I've been using a DA sander to get rid of the old paint, down to the original red oxide looking primer. That's worked pretty well. The underside of the tub is another story, with all the angles, crevices and hard to reach spots. Would I be better off getting these areas media blasted? I'm leaning that way but I'm worried about sheet metal warpage. What type of media would work best for cleaning up the body?

[bmorgil]

Blasting can warp the metal, but you can control how agressivly you go after it. Media blasting with corn cob works very well. gmwillys has great success with the "flapper wheels" from Harbor Freight. I use a sand blaster and watch how long and hard I blast. It is messy to say the least. gm will pop in here and show you what he uses.

[gmwillys]

This is what I use exclusively;

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-80-grit-nylon-abrasive-wheel-with-14-in-shank-60325.html

They do not damage the metal, and you don't get the pesky wires sticking in you that a wire wheel throw. The brushes last a long time, and can get into just about anywhere on the bottom of the tub depending on the size of the drill that you use. The nylon brushes will knock the paint off of just about any surface as you can see in the photos.

[Cajun98]

gmwillys, that looks like what I need. I've gotten just about everything I can with my DA. Looks like a trip to Harbor Freight for me. Thanks.

[gmwillys]

Like I said, I swear by the brushes. They eat through body filler, multi layers of paint, and undercoating. The metal surface then just needs to be blown off and wiped with prep-sol, then it's ready for a sealing primer. The abrasive in the brush is just enough to give the paint something to bond to. Also, it takes about four brushes to do an entire Jeep top to bottom, inside and out. At $4.00 per, that is pretty cheap way to go.

[Cajun98]

That's gonna be a lot less expensive than media blasting or buying another truck load of DA sand paper! Can't wait to try these abrasive brushes out!. Also on my list of things to get done is to get a new compressor. I'm looking at an 80 gallon Ingersal Rand unit. Should be more than enough for running various air tools.

[gmwillys]

in my last shop I had an older model IR 80 gallon industrial compressor that had a rather large motor and three cylinder compressor. It kept up with all the air tools and painting that was done. I had it plumbed into the shop with black iron pipe with air regulators and moisture traps at each outlet. On my shop that I'm in the process of building, I already have the PEX lines with all the fittings to do the same. My current compressor is a used 60 gallon Campbell Hausfeld three cylinder 3/4 HP. It does fairly well, but I do miss not having the 20 extra gallon capacity. As a side note, I use an electric corded variable speed 3/8" drill, (usually a DeWalt, because I've worn out a few stripping paint) to run the nylon brushes.

[Cajun98]

I've currently got a 30 gallon Kobalt that I've had for about 7yrs. It works ok for small jobs but I need something bigger for the new shop. I'm also looking for another tank to increase volume. I've got a Craftsman variable speed drill that I can't seem to wear out. It should work fine with the HF brushes.

[51 CJ3]

The bad thing about using PEX for compressed air is sags in the runs create water traps where they are not wanted. I used to work for a guy who had PVC for his compressor lines and it had the same problem. He had built in traps below the hose couplings with a ball valves to drain water out of the line. We had to run water separators on the hoses to keep from spraying water that was being pushed out of the horizontal runs. He was very particular about connecting the hose he used for painting. The other building had copper and it was much better. I could sandblast down there without it spitting water. Both buildings had separators on the compressor.

[bmorgil]

I have copper lines on mine running around the shop and barn. I have always fought water in the tank and lines. Its so humid around here and, the temperature fluctuations just build up a ton. I either put up with it or, I have to put a water separator at the hook up. I have a few drop legs where I periodically drain water. If you don't keep your air tools lubricated, water will do the job on them! Of course it just ruins a paint job. I bet I drain a quart of water out of my tank every year.

[Cajun98]

Well, I feel like I'm making some progress this month. Got the axels back on the chassis and she's setting on her tires. Still tons of things to do but at least I can look at something that shows progress. I'm currently in the process of rebuilding my Ross steering box. I ordered the overhaul kit from KW and the problem I've run into, and it seems to be a common issue, is that the bushings that support the sector shaft are too loose in the bore. I can push each in by hand. They need to be reamed to 15/16" but they spin in the bore. I follow Brian (Metalshaper) on Youtube and he was talking about this issue. Does anyone have a solution to this issue? NOS parts? Another vendor? On another note, I had ordered a new steering shaft/worm gear from KW but they've been back-ordered since April. My old shaft had some flat spots worn on the worm gear and I had a local machinist that was able repair the old shaft/worm gear for half the price of the new unit. I'll put that in the win bracket!

[bmorgil]

I would try a different vendor. They definitely need to fit tight. It is the press fit collapsing the bushings, that makes them need to be reamed in the first place. I have also read about the same issue. I read it is a vendor thing, and some found success sending them back. I am not sure where the bushings are sourced. You may just want to order the bushings from a bushing supplier. You could also have that local machinist make something up. I would give him the whole thing and have him give it back with the bushings installed and reamed fitted to the shaft he repaired for you. That would be a perfect scenario!

[Cajun98]

Bmorgil, the idea of sending it to my machinist was an idea that I’d also considered. I’m gonna hit a few parts houses this week and see if I can get lucky first.

[Cajun98]

Found a couple of gems this weekend while visiting my parents in Montana. Found the original owners manual! Never knew that it still existed. It's not in the best condition but its all there and legible. Also found a picture of the Jeep from a 1960 deer hunt in Colorado. My goal is to return it to this original version, with my mom's name painted on the hood. Now for my question of the day. I got my steering box back from the machinist. The bushings are installed, reamed and the sector shaft fits perfectly. I replaced the bearings on the screw gear and when I went to install the shaft into the steering box, the bearing race will not fit thru the bore. I still have the old races and they will pass through with a little encouragement but the new races will not fit. Any suggestions on what to do? I tried heating the steering box bore with a torch and the race went partially through but still won't fit.

[TJones]

Cajun98 those pictures are priceless!!!
Try putting the race in the freezer for a while, it may shrink them down enough to squeeze them in.

[bmorgil]

Man you did find some Gems! Great shot of the hunt. It sure looks cold.

That steering box of yours intends to be a tough one. The bearings should go in fairly easy. A little persuasion is OK but, you certainly shouldn't have to heat the box. Do you have a good micrometer or dial caliper? Check the old race and the new one for size. You have to make sure you are going straight in with the race. If you get it a little cocked it will jam up. Also if the steering shaft/worm gear isn't perfectly straight it will not go together. If the shaft/worm gear are slightly off center or bent, it will not align correctly. If everything is clean in the bore and its not scored up, it sounds like the wrong bearing.

[Cajun98]

I tried the freezer method and got the upper bearing race in place. Just took a couple of gentle taps. The lower race is still chilling. Hopefully it doesn't fight me too badly. Bmorgil, I don't have any way of measuring diameter of the new bearings. The old ones will almost fall through the bore. I thought about reusing the old ones but they are a bit pitted in the cup. The struggle continues, lol.

[Cajun98]

The steering box is done. Everything looks good on that end. My next project, when I get home, is to address the wiring harness. I'm debating on whether to build a completely new harness from scratch or purchase one. For those of you that have pursued either option, what were the pro's and con's of your choices? My harness has been hacked on over the past 60+ years but is still fairly functional. I've got it laid out on a 4x8 sheet of ply wood and zip tied down. I was thinking about just replicating the original, one wire at a time. I have found sources for the terminal ends and wiring. It appears that there are three different gauges of wire. The heaviest is the main power source, followed by the wiring supplying power to the headlights. Does anyone know what gauges I would need?

[TJones]

Cajun98 when I did mine I bought a harness from Summit Racing made by Painless Performance and my buddy that installed it said it was probably the best harness he’s ever used.

If you check out my post https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?1772-New-to-the-Forum and go to page 62 or 63 is when I started the wiring on mine.

[51 CJ3]

I don’t think I have ever seen a jeep wiring diagram with wire gauges. To make a new harness, a person might have to measure what is there or figure out the load for each circuit and find the correct size in the charts. The load can be based off the fuse size for the circuit. Just want to make sure the wire is heavy enough that the fuse blows before the wire starts to melt.

[bmorgil]

It's a simple harness, a basic DC circuit, if you have a bit of electrical skill it can be replicated fairly easily. All you need to do is follow the factory diagram, and Jeff's advice on circuit size. I replicated mine. There were only two original wire colors (I did add a few more colors). That's if you are just replicating it. If you are going to add a lot of modern stuff to it or you want to make it more modern in general, TJ's suggestion is a good one. The painless harnesses are a great way to go.

[LarrBeard]

I had the same debate with myself when I redid the '48 truck. After all, I had been making aircraft harnesses for 25+ years, so how hard could it be I asked myself?

Then I looked at how much wire I would need, (the truck has a lot of different wire colors and tracers), several different gauges, how many terminals I would have to strip and crimp and once it was done I would have to either wrap it or zip tie it into a bundle. And, when I got it done - it might still look like a home made job.

So - I bought a ready made harness and I have not regretted it in the least.

[Cajun98]

I guess I'll take the advice provided and start looking at a pre-made harness. I've done electrical work but it's surely not my specialty. Thanks for all the advice, gentlemen.

[bmorgil]

Good point on the original harness Larry. KW has a big selection.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/electrical/wiring-harnesses

[gmwillys]

I had a neighbor who worked at a power plant. He was constantly bringing me unique items home in his lunch pail to repay all the beer that he liberated from the shop fridge. On one stop, he brought me a spool of six pair, Nomex covered color coded wire. Each strand had its own color. There was pretty close to 75' of wire left on the roll, so I can assume that he plucked it out of the trash..... But it was good stuff. I used it to wire up all my derby cars, to where heat could become a factor. I later used the remainder on my 2A Heep. It looks close enough to a factory cloth covered wire, that I ran with it. With that being said, if it weren't for the "free" roll of wire, I would have saved up and purchased a wire harness instead as LarrBeard suggests. I had a small fortune in 3M shrink connectors, and a whole lot of time laying everything out.

[Cajun98]

gmwillys, that's would be a great snag, to get that kind of wire. On my '59, was the original wiring harness composed of the cloth coated wiring or was it the usual plastic coated wiring? I'm not sure how much of it is the original and how much has been changed out over the decades. The only additional add ons have been a radio and a few after market gauges.

[LarrBeard]

From the catalog description for the trucks through 64 - it appears that the cloth covered wire was still in use - but sometimes catalog descriptions are not entirely accurate...

"COMPLETE WIRING HARNESS - MADE IN THE USA FITS 52-64 TRUCK Just like original cloth covered and coated wiring harness. All made to factory specs and pre-terminated wiring. "

[gmwillys]

It can go either way. My '63 was all plastic and rubber coated wire, even on items up under the dash where nobody had ventured since the factory. There was no sign of cloth covered wire anywhere. A '59 in my experience should be cloth.

[Cajun98]

I'm knee deep in disassembling my T90 and Dana18. I'm amazed at how robust yet relatively simple these units are. It looks like both units will need nothing more than gaskets, seals, thrust washers, etc. Do any of you have any insight when comparing the KW minor overhaul kits vs the kits produced by Novak? The kits from Novak are almost double the cost. If the quality is there, I don't mind spending extra but I can save a little $$ for the same parts, well.....

[bmorgil]

The convenience of the kits and the quality are fine from both sources. I would use the Fel-Pro Transfer case gasket set, they have a few different ones. The best prices will probably be found by purchasing the bearings and seals individually from Rock Auto or other discount bearing supplier.

https://www.drivparts.com/part-details.html?brand_code=BCWV&part_number=TS%203181%20A&part_name=Transfer%20Case%20Gasket%20Set

[51 CJ3]

Almost all of my parts from KW are Omix. I have bought small and major overhaul for T90 and D18. I bought them before getting real involved in the forums but haven’t installed many of them yet so can’t give you a review. I sincerely hope they work better than the forums claim. I have seen where people are saying some of the Novak kits are starting to use some minor Omix bits and pieces.

[Cajun98]

Thanks for the suggestions, gentlemen. The Fee-Pro gasket set looks like a winner. I'm gonna check into the rest of the parts individually.

[Cajun98]

I haven't posted in a while but I'm still plugging away. Just finished a refresh of the T90 and Dana 18. It was fairly straight forward and I didn't run into any real issues. I do have a couple of questions, though. On the transfer case, the shift rods are easy to move back and forth without the detent balls and springs. After installing the ball and spring to each side, the 4 wheel drive shift rod moves without too much effort when you grab the end of the rod. On the high/low shift rod, I can't move it at all by hand. Any ideas on what might be the issue here? The next question involve the T90. The shift fork for second gear has a little play in it and if I shift into second gear and remove the shift tower, I have a small gap (1/16" or so) between the sychro sleeve and the second gear. From what I've read and watched online, this gap can cause the transmission to pop out of second gear. Any suggestions?

[bmorgil]

Cajun this could be a few things but, lets start with the shift rail issue in the transfer case. It sounds like you need to install the shifter and try the shifts completely assembled. If you are sure you have the interlock in the right way and the shift balls springs and rails are correct, It could be a worn detent on the shift rail or cover hole hanging up. Edit: You will have to turn the input an output shafts to align the gears.

I am not sure what you mean by "play" in the shift fork. The fork should be pinned securely to the shift rail. It should not be loose on the rail. As the transmission shifts the "cut" of the gears are such that there is a natural tendency to pull it into gear. As the clutching teeth on the gear wear, this effect lessens and lessens until it starts to spit out of gear on deceleration. Tighten the shift rail on the shaft and be sure the shift fork pads are not worn keeping the fork from moving the clutch collar all the way into gear. The fork pads should not have a lot of visible wear where the pads contact the collar. Some wear is OK. A deep groove is not.

A few pictures of the parts might help Cajun, lets see what your up against.

These pic's of shift forks out of a motorcycle transmission from another web site, are junk. Notice how the fork is beginning to contact where there are no pads at the middle top of the forks. This is a good example of what to look for. These should not be reused.

[Cajun98]

bmorgil, thanks for the insight. Is there a certain position that the shift rail should be in, in relation to the ball/spring when installing? I'll try attaching the shift stems and see if it's still an issue. As far as the shift forks, there is very little wear at all where they contact to collar. The play that I'm referring to would be fore/aft. It almost seems that the fork is a little loose on the rail, like the lock pin is worn. I'll get some pics and post later. Thanks again.

[bmorgil]

The four wheel shift lever should be engaged or shaft forward, prior to installing the poppet balls, springs and plugs.

The shift fork should not be loose on the rail. It should fit smoothly with very little play, if any, "fore/aft".

[Cajun98]

Sorry for the delay in getting a pic. The shift fork on the right, for second gear, seems to have some slop. I'm thinking the pin that secures it to the rod is worn. There is a small amount of play, fore and aft, that leaves a small gap between the synchro sleeve and the second gear, when shifted to second. There's also slop side to side. Not sure if this has any affect on shift quality. How difficult is it to replace he pin that secures the fork to the rail?

[bmorgil]

The pins are hardened "Roll Pins". They are not hard to replace. You need to make a careful observation as to which end of the roll pin is the tip so to speak. Roll pins have one end that is contoured slightly so the pin doesn't "bite" as it is pressed in. One end is more flat and that is the end you want to drive on when you install them. You want to be sure you drive that tapered end out last and in first. The forks should slide on the rails with no play. Be sure the rails and/or forks themselves aren't worn where they ride together. There isn't much to the cover. You may want to tear it down and replace the springs and poppet balls and check it out thoroughly.

[Cajun98]

Thanks for all the advice on the shift tower. I pulled it apart and there was really no significant wear on any of the components. The rivets that hold the shift forks to the shift rods were kind of a sloppy fit, so I replaced them with the roll pins. Tightened everything up really nice. I mounted the tower to the transmission and also attached the 4x4 and hi/low shifters and everything shifts as it's supposed to. I'm amazed, lol. There is still a small gap between the second gear and the synchro sleeve when you shift to second but I think that the cut of the gears, that you mentions, bmorgil, should pull it tight when the gears are turning. Now to try and get the engine and tranny mounted back into the chassis. Small bites!

[bmorgil]

Awesome Cajun! Yes the gear cut will handle the rest. If it doesn't, the clutching gear teeth are worn out.

[Cajun98]

The engine, tranny/transfer case are back home in the chassis where they belong!! I actually feel like I'm making some good progress. Nice to see things come together.

[bmorgil]

Oh man Cajun, grab the water jug and a crate and take it for a lap!

[Cajun98]

bmorgil, you don't know how bad I wanted to get it wired up and running!! I'm knocking out a little bit everyday that I'm home. I'll be off to work for a few weeks but I already have a list of things on my to-do list for when I get home.