1964 Kaiser Willy's Jeep Gladiator J300 Pickup Truck "Cindy" Resto Mod Thread

[5JeepsAz]

Good Day Friends!

Welcome to my build thread.

Thank you forum leaders and members for all your help!

And thank you for reading. I'm writing this for you because this thread would have helped me during this build, and I didn't have it like it is presented here. We've got the "Resto Rules", Photo Albums for background, items related to Acquisitions, Builds, and the infamous, "Ole Fiver's Driving Skills Academy for People who Drive Kaiser Willy's Jeeps - Don't Fence Me In!!".

Hope you enjoy the ride. Let's get started!

This is a thread about "Cindy" - a completed truck build that is everything I aimed at, and done as done can be. Clocked me today at 64-67 mph on the freeway and dug out of a hole in 2Lo today too; has new air conditioning, heater, new roof carpet, new window tint, new alternator, new paint, new radiator, etc. See them pics!! So excited to be done, as much as is possible.

How's that? Cindy you say? Yep. She's got that name because I was in a carwash rinsing five years of filth off of a mountain jeep being gifted to a city grand daughter when suddenly I was in a jeep dealership checking out the new Jeep interiors. Why? Cause I wanted to see all the jeep offered packages, in case maybe I was gonna buy the new 2020 Jeep Gladiator pick up truck.

So they had a line of jeep about a mile long, all different trims, all open. I climbed through every color combination, every leather, cloth, two door four door, soft top, hardtop jeep variant I could see. Took hours.

Oh yeah, check in with the Mrs. I've been MIA for hours. Only went to the carwashes. Be right back honey. 4 hours later I text her 'hey Cindy, having fun in the Jeep, so many different ways we can do this!' okay. except my wife's name is not Cindy. Auto text, bruh. Not good. And she is none to pleased to hear of my fun times jeeps in any variety of ways not involving herself. So that gets sorted out with several efforts, phone calls, emogis, texts, pictures of jeeps, me with the jeeps, of the saleslady (not named Cindy).

Wife named whatever new Jeep I got "Cindy". I agree wholeheartedly.


For the story of Cindy, please read on ...

[5JeepsAz]

1. We turn one bolt at a time. (Pelago, RIP)
2. We like ice cream, going for ice cream, taking people to ice cream. It's all about the sweet stuff - enjoy the ride!
3. Whatever Resto we do, it'll be what we aimed for, so it's ok to be satisfied.
4. Whomever we do it for, they never react like we expect, especially if it's yourself. Do it anyway.
5. We customize to our taste, regardless of what others tell you that you must do.
6. About midnight oil, we all burn as much as our Willy's Jeep burns. Keep on chugging.
7. Buckets. We all got one. Turn it upside down. Sit down. Think awhile. Our way of saying measure twice, cut once.
8. Rule #7 is BS. Your gonna cut 50 times if you cut once. Use bucket & Improvise. Adapt. Overcome..
9. We post pictures of our builds, the good the bad, and the ugly.
10. Though the Internet is forever, sometimes it's not. Download, backup, and print what you love.
11. Give your Jeep 5 minutes, road time before deciding anything. Gives the gunk time to ungunk itself.
12. What's on your Jeep is on your Jeep.
13. We simply can't cheat the build.
14. Buy good parts once.
15. Gotta love "Made in USA". They are high quality.
16. Time well spent on a sunny day. Making hay while the sun is shinning so to speak.

[bmorgil]

Rule #13. Though the Internet is forever, sometimes it's not. Download, backup, and print what you love.

I am truly looking forward to watching this thread come back together. Cindy is a great story! Now the Fence? And where did this statement come from? "Tech for tech's sake is just a bad idea"? I need clarification on why you have to put a gizmo glitter tach in Cindy again?

80's in high school... a yungun' you are Az!

Can you explain how to keep an engine from stalling when it wont idle in downtown traffic with a stick shift? I heard you could.

[TJones]

[QUOTE=bmorgil;16209]Rule #13. Though the Internet is forever, sometimes it's not. Download, backup, and print what you love.

Rule #14 Fences are put up to be Parking Block Twerkers, heard from a friend:):)

[bluesblooded]

Looking forward to revisit this great story.

[bmorgil]

Oh my God, TJ said "Twerkers"!

Az please post pictures of the "Fence" and "Gravel pit". I think you should create a go to post on how your brakes came to fruition, and your AC install went, and your throttle control came about, and the oil clean ups, and the "pipe laying" bed liner and cap, and what an RPM is, and why you don't care, and why we need oil... I have a few more, I don't want to overwhelm you you may "Choke" the motor.

[bmorgil]

It will be better than ever. Az did your total number of posts change? It shows you have 427 posts. I think it was much more than that. It looks like your post count reflects the lost posts. I think your total posts count dropped.

[5JeepsAz]

What I had already: confidence, a dream, money to burn, time to waste, a competitor, knowledge of my limitations, research capabilities, and a supportive Mrs.

What I didn't have and still don't. I don't twerk wrench. I don't turn wrench. I don't own wrench. Extend that to mean I knew going in I would need a team to complete the build because after reading everyone else on here I simply do not have the aptitude, skills, experience, ability, interest, training to touch the truck beyond driving it.

The story goes...

I wanted a full size jeep pick up since I saw the 2004 green jeep truck. I had moved to the city, gave away my 78 doge ram charger V8 four on the floor snow plow wood hauler and my 2011 Jeep Liberty limited, sold my allis chalmers tractor, my car hauler, the 88 jeep comanche, and the 2004 jeep liberty. For the first time in a long time ... No Jeep.

I was gonna buy the new Jeep gladiator pickup. I had a price. $40,000.00 OTD, new. I won't pay more than that for a truck. Call me stubborn. Say I'm stuck in the past. I call it voting with my feet. I won't support an economic approach where an everyman truck costs more than everyman average annual wage. I'm a capitalist pig. Not a communist or socialist. But I'm also a pragmatist, a realist. No economy will thrive which over spreads that gap between haves and have nots. We all get better or we all fail. My opinions. Not meant to offend. Your mileage may vary, and welcome all ideas.

Couldn't get the one I wanted at the price I was willing to pay.

Challenge accepted:

I would build the 2 door, bench seat, manual transmission, long bed, No Tech, Bad Axe Jeep Gladiator for half my stated price point.

Goal, buy and build for 20K.

[5JeepsAz]

Acquisition (a definite fail, but not quiting!)

Enter Cindy #1. I found a fully restored, everything on it, 1966 Jeep Gladiator pickup truck for $5,900.00. sure the guy was shifty, but me, I could outsmart him. See where this is going? Perfect truck? Fully restored? Cheapest one ever? Shifty dude? Confident dumb *** like me? Doesn't twerk wrench? Wants to buy the solution. Damn fool. I am one. Paid the man the money. No truck. I didn't even get bait and switched. I got straight street hustled. I even called the bank aforehand, yep, he's a real customer - sure you can transfer the money direct to his account. I even talked to the feds or bank investigatory after. Yep, that's the man who stole my money. Here's all the websites he's ripped people off from. end of day? No money, no jeep truck! (Took three months)

Moral of the story: if you don't exercise your morals, if you ignore what your momma taught ya, no self respecting Jeep Truck will have you either. You simply can't cheat the build.

Technically, I own this truck... http://topclassiccarsforsale.com/jeep/177259-1966-jeep-gladiator-j3000-4x4-truck-vintage-condition-50th-anniversary-v8-327.html

Please do not mention this to my better half. Of course she told me not to. I had to. No, I don't actually own that truck. It's just the one I paid for at one time, three years ago when I was a much younger man!

Cindy #2 Neighborhood truck. Neighbor said guy wouldn't sell. Told him $3500. Met the family. Told em 4 grand. Guy wouldn't sell. Talked to the guy. Offered 6 grand. Guy wouldn't sell. (Took three months).

Widening search. All the search engines. Virtually looked over maybe a thousand vehicles, maybe 100 jeep j series trucks, offered on some, all the difficulties. Wrong engine, wrong transmission, wrong rust, no tailgate, etc. Right truck, wrong price, wrong timing etc. This took so long I watched one truck go from craigslist to a specialty site (I chatted the guy up and his price was above my available cash - would have bought a completed truck, 84 J Series, sweet complete truck, for under ten grand and been done, but) he sold it to a specialty dealer where I saw it listed the next six months +5K at the price I offered. So much time spent looking!!! No jeep truck.

[bmorgil]

I never new you started out with a "Goal" like you had. A good one Az. Definitely achievable.

[bluesblooded]

Love to read the story, the details and your mindset going through the process. Very interesting and entertaining.

[bmorgil]

Az your photo album is on fire! nice pics man. Cool photos of Cindy gettin' dressed. Lots of neat photos Az.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/album.php?u=8254

[TJones]

[QUOTE=bmorgil;16253]Az your photo album is on fire!

I agree with bob it is pretty cool!!!

[gmwillys]

All the "guidance" is worth every penny you have paid for it.

[TJones]

Oh my gm you forgot the “expert idiotic” part Ole Wise one:D

[bmorgil]

You always have to read an "Az post" a few times to be sure you get it all.

[gmwillys]

My level of comprehension must be sub par. I did neglect to include idiotic expert. Please excuse my oversight.

[gmwillys]

As a card carrying member of the mens club, I know on many occasions I feel the need to stick my foot in my mouth. Us idiots need to stick together, and will continue to give out free jeep life experiences to whomever may ask. Just keep in mind, the truth is often stranger than fiction.

[TJones]

Well, if I'm being honest, which is rarely true. Have you ever heard the one about meeting two jeepers in a desert when you need water or fuel or both and one of them is all the time a liar and one of them is a truth sayer all the time? But you don't know which is liar and which is the honest one? But you are real thirsty and so is your jeep? So dried out in the desert heat you can only ask directions from one of them? Huh? So ... What do you ask and which one do you ask? Remember. You need water and fuel. They know which way to turn. The liar will misdirect you every time. The truth guy will correctly direct you everytime. Answer?

Anyway, now, back to the thread: this truck is way worse without your guru help, so please feel appreciated. Not idiots obviously. Just way smarter than average jeep drivers who struggle to grasp what seems so obvious to you. You know what I miss most about my deleted thread? That conversation about engines "breathing" that turned into a great resource page on engines. Dang it! I was reading that thing a few more times.
#1 AZ it is time to start being honest, we All try to be as honest as we can be on this site with the "guru help" we have or know.....
#2 No we have not ever heard the story about the liar and the the truth sayer Please tell us more of the story you just made up....
#3 If you are jeepers in the desert and you know your heading there wouldn't you prepare yourself for that journey??? Asking for a friend :rolleyes:
#4 Well I probably wouldn't ask nothing because if I was going to the desert with a jeeper I would make sure I had fuel and water....
#5 You probably should know what your game plan is and where WTF your headed before you even head into the desert (with no fuel and water)
#6 We all DO feel appreciated Thanks for your compliment on our "guru help"
#7 It is only because we are older and maybe you know but maybe not, with age comes wisdom so by ONLY by our own mistakes and failures (which instills wisdom for the willing to learn) we try and spread what we consider "obvious" to us.

You asked for an answer and that's mine and I am sticking to it!!!

[5JeepsAz]

Alright TJones, truth is, it's an old dirt puzzler. This is the slightly modernized version for mall crawlers who get lost within a half mile of town and think they need water and gas. You and everyone here would give em some water and gas. You are right about all of us carrying it. Solution?

See, you ask either one what the other would answer. Then you do the opposite. That's the winner winner chicken dinner answer.

The truthful one, for example, would say honestly that the liar would point you down the draw a half mile to the home depot. In this case, doing opposite, you go up the draw.

The lying one would lie, and say that the truthful one would direct you go down the draw to the home depot, about a half mile. In this case you do the opposite, you go up the draw.

That's the kind of useless knowledge I carry in my head. It's occasionally amusing!

[5JeepsAz]

Acquisition (success!)

I went right past her the first night. Remember telling my wife – hey, just like this one, but not this one. Paint color looked like old rotten dusty spray paint. She was droopy on her springs. She had a long backside and a short nose. She was too much money. Old but not vintage. No way that this girl could be a bad axe jeep truck. She was a hauler not a brawler. No sizzle. No pizazz. No oomph. So, of course, I bookmarked her immediately. Rare bird! These things are scarce!

Internet searches of vehicles are one thing – magazine articles on builds another – and then there is what’s in your mind’s eye, your heart. Having reviewed all available J-series trucks pictured on what seemed like the entire internet; reviewed every vintage advertisement to be found in surprisingly diverse languages, cultures, countries around the world; I studied many interviews with the people who designed, built, marketed and drove the jeep truck back when. The stuff you learn!

The articles out there describe all the ways you can build: build up an old car from parts or chassis or an engine or a gear shift knob (not kidding); restore an old, whole car, replacing missing parts, return its former glory; bring one back to as originally built; find a prize jewel, get it in your claws, and keep it mint condition. The possibilities are endless. But there’s only one path you will take on this build, meander though you might.

Guess I was going for a certain look. It took me about a week or a month to figure out the model year or years I wanted. Problem was I was scouring ten webpages a night where old Jeeps are for sale right along with researching each one. That sweet new one would pop up and all my plans went out the window because I wanted that particular one right now. Then, a curious thing happened. Clarity. I knew what I wanted.

Cindy was going to be a 62-67 Rhino Chaser Grille long bed. I just liked the grille is what it was. Wanted the jeep truck stance from the early truck set up. It came from factory with a bench seat and 4X4. The end date was iffy, 1967 ish. Some folks say things changed starting in 69 or 72 – our rule comes to mind, “what’s on the jeep is on the jeep”.

Man are those years variable as to package. Worse yet, nobody knows or remembers. So what we find for sale on ebay today often has a 79 tailgate slapped together with a 69 bumper between 73 taillights – awful. I’ve even seen vintage 60’s door handles over homemade carpeted door cards. The horror!

I wanted the one before the rhino grille disappeared, before the cool 50’s Elvis lip overhang on the front windshield disappeared, before the manly chains on the tailgate latch disappeared, and as importantly before modern overdone unnecessary things like reverse light appeared (see future post on don’t fence me in), before custom cab package chrome appeared standard.

I really wanted that cool small jeep window as reference to the old Willy’s Trucks, but it turns out the larger window was an extra special – so it would have been added first on preferred packages or as a single upgrade to a base model. Said the bigger window gave you added visibility. Wrong. All it did was ignore history. It’s about as bad as the day they made the last 8 track, the day they carefully placed the final one of the series: the last old willy’s window, it was put in the luckiest new j-series jeep truck ever.

Finding her? I could find Cindy in a hundred pieces and do a humpty dumpty resto on her – get all those pieces back together again. I could find a museum quality jeep truck and be broke and never drive anywhere. Or something in between.

So old jeeps fall into categories such as: parts of a vehicle, donor vehicle, truck for modernization only (no longer original), and truck for historically accurate restoration (oldie but goodie but not a beauty), barn find in original condition (not minty yet, could become minty fresh), and original condition (garage queen to keep as a prized possession). Good to know your starting and ending point – gotta have a plan, man… I went for survivor. These are the cars that survived in original condition to current day, but they will need work, they aren’t necessarily perfect, so you can be expected to modernize somewhat. A driver vehicle more than a mint restoration, was my understanding. And I had that bookmarked one, which fit the bill.

I’m looking for a couple of years model of vehicle, a whole vehicle running and driving but not perfect. I found her. What’s my problem? Well, I was just then awaiting the price drop on the new jeep gladiator. Being a vintage resto man by now, when the price dropped and it was a dollop of what I won’t pay ever that much for a truck – decision was made. I emailed the guy immediately. What happened then was a series of funny errors. I did not have the cash on hand. I was planning to divert some income to this project, but with no car to buy, I kept doing the sensible thing like paying upkeep on my life. I’m the type who spends cash, not credit. Learned it the hard way. But it’s the good and right way. So I would pile up 5 grand, but the seller wanted ten so it didn’t fit timeframe. That’s the thing about this deal – it’s people. It is all about people.

I should mention “J” at this point, may he rest in peace. As said, I would need a team to help with this build. First off, I need a person who knows the car business, and who knows me. I found this guy, probably been in some bar fights, maybe even more trouble, but a man of faith, cared about his daughter, and then this happened. I watched him broker a deal with a mom who had a baby on her hip – the husband standing there needed the car to get back and forth to work. “J” took it all in.

They owed more on the repair than they had. They could not pay him for his repairs without the car to earn money, which meant getting back and forth to work for the man in this traditional family. So young, that family. So beautiful, the family. He looked into the baby’s eyes, then the mothers. I saw this. He made it work. I swear I watched the Father at work in that moment. When “J” gave the man of the house his respect, restored his dignity, gave him the keys to the wheels, understood he would maybe get paid in full on earth but he was paying his way for the next life by his good work with that family. It was more important to “J” to respect people, than business. We discussed it in exactly these terms after.

If he could restore sanity to that madness, he could help me restore my truck. Everyone who knows me knows I can be troublesome. Well, me and “J” had that sameness, an understanding. Troublesome, but good for the go. Funny, the last thing he ever did was save me 3 grand on a paint job, just because he could. Why? I have no idea. He just up and told me how to save 3 grand. Then he laughed and that’s about the last I saw him. He’s in a better place now. Just know he was there before the truck, during the truck build, and he has a permanent ride along. Damn opiods. Tellin you. Just like my own brother on the cocaine in the 80’s. Make that two riders, both hell raisers, with me in Cindy, my daily driver, as we cruise around looking for some situations to rectify, or just have us some plain old fun.

Anyway – the money will be in the budget post – but you need cash right now if you are a have not, unless you are a have, then you do wire transfers – either way any hang up in the money busts a deal. So I did not have the cash to buy Cindy. I only needed 6 grand, actually $5,800.00. I didn’t haggle – it was an honest price for a survivor. I had 5. But that extra 800 was 30 days away. So I emailed back and forth with the owner.

What I heard amazed me. He’d hold it for me – wanted to sell it to someone who would do with it what I planned. That’s the truth of these deals. One guy didn’t want his truck in my hands – turned down thousands extra. Another guy sells it to me for list when he has better offers, cause he only wants it done the way I will do it.

But me being me – here I am with an 18 hour trip to go get this truck, 8+ there, 8+ back, loading and stops. I don’t even know the address and I’m an hour out in a UHAUL with a car hauler that is costing me a grand. I tell the guy on the way there and he says, oh, thought I gave you my address last month! I know. Foolhardy. But I wanted that truck and asking his address wasn’t the thing to do, until he was sure I was in range. It worked. Anyway – he parted with the truck, counting his money three times real slow, telling me this and that. He drove it up on the car hauler. She actually looks like a jeep in person, down the block. A real jeep truck. A vintage jeep truck!!! I had jeeps clearing lanes of LA traffic when I needed to get from the 15 to the ten interchange, I had em stop and pump fists, one jeep followed me for miles just loving my Cindy.

I got back to town middle of the night and when I lit her up any car guy in three city blocks heard her 60’s throaty roar. My god, that sound. Like a movie. She just woke up the whole neighborhood and made herself known. She backed up off that hauler like a tarantula. Damn that felt good. I had never driven a vehicle like this. Too tired to go round the block even once, I eased her in. That sound though. That feeling like your fingers on the wheel are the wheels touching the ground. This Jeep truck, my Cindy, is home.

Once again, I was drivin Jeep!

[5JeepsAz]

Ownership

I woke up the owner of a cool jeep – one that would get better and better each day, as I learned what I had. They let me across the border with the truck no problem. The title, registration, a insurance rider, all the papers I had paid for, went unused. But, I had a deadline to get to the DMV.

See, on another thread we are joking about Forward Control Jeeps being homely. This triggered the memory of standing in line at the DMV trying to register Cindy. They had FC’s in the computer. They did not have Kaiser Willys Jeep Trucks. Self impressed as I was for knowing what FC meant – the DMV clerk was equally impressed I am sure – also true I was new enough in the game to *not* know Cindy was a J-Series, never even asked the clerk to see if that was in the computer. That seems unbelievable.

But it’s true. I did not know what she was legally, out of state title & Registration was no help since whatever it said wasn’t in the computer either. When put on the spot, by somebody who needed to click a button so I could officially own a truck, I could have said any of the options. Yep. Turned the monitor toward me and said, which one? Any of these? Yikes. This is how she was originally registered as a Jeep 1 Ton Truck. That was the only option even close, because she aint no FC (DMV don’t care as much as your insurer will)… Done with registration. Just need to wait a bit to convert from original issued to vanity plates.

Next morn, I went out and looked at the engine close up for the first time. The header is embossed with the word JEEP. You know why it’s a Kaiser-Willy’s ‘Jeep’ truck? The quotes are legalistic, the way to offset the fact that they never finished purchasing the rights to advertise the word Jeep. So there it is, stamped onto MY engine, in the coolest FONT. Say what? I thought we invented fonts in the 90’s on computers. The only font variations I was aware of are chicken scratch cuneiform they wrote on mud tablets way back, some far off places using fancy calligraphy, and the King’s. Kaiser Willy’s Jeep had a cool font in the early 60’s? Yep. And it matches with my owner’s manual, and with the then current advertising.

This truck would get more and more bad axe at every turn. The engine itself is the first ever mass-produced in America overhead cam – the infamous Tornado 230. I saw on yutube some young gun tear down the 230, and looky there, inserted ‘helio’ pistons which can’t be called ‘hemi’ by name, legally. A ‘hemi’ by any other name combusts the same? It’s maybe one of the best engines ever built. My opinion. And. It’s in the truck in my garage.

And, the word stamped on my carb? HOLLEY. My whole life is complete when I’m standing there the owner of a Holley Carb. Growing up, it was the best of the best of the best, with honors. I never owned one before. It’s on the jeep truck in my garage.

And, it has the running gear of a goat stallion mix – you will know the names by heart.

Simply put – everything on this truck is class, in a class of its own. This is the perfect example. So I got Cindy a personalized plate. The exact meaning?

Arete is a concept in ancient Greek that refers to "excellence" of any kind ultimately bound with the notion of the fulfillment of purpose or function: the action of living up to full potential.

AND

Arête is a narrow ridge of rock separating two valleys; a saddle, pass, or sharpened ridge.

Cindy’s Plate Means: ‘Truck Perfection - High Up Mountain Pass’.

And my driving coda is, “See You Fellers Up Top”

Hope you enjoy the pics!

[5JeepsAz]

(Editorial notated: of course you might could do it cheaper!)

PLAN & Budget (estimated)

To meet goal I will build daily driver Jeep Truck for 20K.
What do I have? What do I need for safe driver? What is “Done”? How much?

Vehicle Info: (Cost 7 grand)

1964 Kaiser-Willy’s Jeep Gladiator J300 (SJ) ½ Ton 4X4 Pickup Truck
VIN: 3406E
Engine: Jeep Tornado 230 6cyl | Engine Serial#: TD60C
Ignition / Distributor: Autolite #1AT-4416 Upgraded to Pertronix Adaptive Dwell AT 4403 6cyl
Holley Carburetor Model 2300 P/N # 0-4412S
Holley Solenoid Fast Idle part# 46-74 | Carburetor Throttle Solenoid Bracket part# 20-9
Transmission: Borg-Warner T90 Transmission Dana 20 |2.79:1 first gear and 1.66:1 second gear
Rear Differential (has tag under bolt): 4:27
Wheels/Tires: Pro Comp Series 82 | STA Traxion H78-15 (spare in bed)
Documentation: Keep Current: Keys, Photographs, Title, License, Registration, Insurance.

Routine Maintenance (Regular Expense - Not in Build Budget): Tune Up, Oil Change Filters & Fluids & Belts & Rubber, Grease (ALL ZERKS), Tighten Shifter Linkage, Adjust Carburetor, Safety Check All Shop Installed Parts, Safety Check Entire Vehicle: Brakes, Choke, Clutch, Electric, Fuel System, Mirrors, Glass.

Repairs to Driver Level (Cost 6 grand – several months)
Upgrades: new core radiator, generator to alternator, new drum brakes, wiring & electrical upgrades to modern, second fuel pump, repack axle hubs, u joints, new tires, interior mechanical repairs to doors, windows, locks, miscellaneous + Routine Maintenance

Repairs to AZ Driver Level (Cost 4 grand – few months)
Upgrades: air conditioning, electro ignition, disc brakes all around, new wheels, master cylinder, water pump, harmonica balancer (just to see if you are reading), miscellaneous + Routine Maintenance

Repairs to Performance Driver Level (Cost 1 grand – two months)
Upgrades: rear slider window, vacuum canister, idle advance, fuel send, speedometer, miscellaneous + Routine Maintenance

Repairs to Stylin Driver Level (Cost 1& 1/2 grand ish – few weeks)
Upgrades: new paint, new topper & new paint, window tint, miscellaneous

Repairs to Comfy Driver Level (Cost 1 grand – over few months)
Upgrades: restore door cards, install armrest, new roof carpet, soundproofing, sirius boom box, fun stuff, miscellaneous + Routine Maintenance

Total Cost on this truck build: $20 grand give or take. *

*little things keep popping in my head. I'm into this build less than $22,500.00 OTD, not counting Cindy#1; $25K including, all in. My math here depends on what I would have done no matter what vehicles. Actual build spend was pretty close to at or under 15K for those curious. But I bought two air-conditioning and three brakes. Do I include topper, as this would have gone on any new to me vehicle? How much do I deduct for the "free" tonneau I didn't spend for? That thing is very valuable. Etc

Future Items: windscreen showerbath, Car Phone; Overdrive; LED or Halogen Bulbs; Repair Speedometer Connection; parking brake and possibly bmorgils Tach-O-Meter, and an NOS Tilt-O-Meter.


Dusty windows: If I run a tube from a tank with a pump to the wiper blade, we could contraptualize a shower bath for dusty windshield. in product development

Car phone: deciding between attaching whole trim line phone via Bluetooth (cell2jack), or, take out old phone guts an hide a new blue tooth headset in there

Overdrive: problem is speed, so plan is larger circumference tires; saw a dude on youtubes go Slower top end with overdrive.

Lights: found this: Vintage Nos Marchal 850 Fog Lights Jeep Cj7 Cj8 J10 Jamboree Wagoneer Cherokee. So these were factory on the later Honcho. If I can find NOS for cheap they will be on cindy. Some are 400 bucks which aint happening. Search is on...

Parking brake: saw a mechanism for disk on a jeep resto.was told that wasn't. If it is, that'd solve it. Research!

[bluesblooded]

Love this thread!

[5JeepsAz]

Shop Vendor Recommends*

*All opinions are my own. None of these folks endorse me, this thread, or my build. Everyone of these shops stand by their work 100%, which I know to be true, the reason for A++ recommend the following:

AAMCO Glendale, Az. (Military Discount)

Walcks4wd

Willys America

Dale Manufacturing @ hbrepair

JeepAir

SO-CAL Speed Shop AZ

AZTOP Shop

Kaiserwillys

JeepGlass

HOLLEY

Herm the Overdrive Guy

JEGS

MAACO Glendale, AZ

Lukat Detail

BJsOffroad

VintageAir

Coker Tire

[mrgrtt123]

I had so much fun reading it since it is entertaining and informative at the same time.

[5JeepsAz]

Body Work

So many great threads to search starting with Larrbeard, GMWillys, Tjones, bmorgil and many more as to body work.

My build was solid as purchased, built for daily driver not for show, and the truck had no rust. Adding seatbelts and some brackets in the engine bay was all it took to get the body where I wanted to go. I did find a really neat-o hand turn, for the spare cinch, made from rebar – looks ancient. I still need to get a metal wizard to age that handmade part. It is a big “T”. The original probably was a knuckle bruiser, so it got upgraded!

[5JeepsAz]

Paint

All opinions as far as paint. You can spend more on paint than anything else, or less. Really.

Consider a concourse paint job. Perfect in every way. That is plenty money and plenty months. On the other hand, a rattle can? Well, you might use it where you will be the last person to see that paint for fifty years because you are going to close it up within a frame rail. No, not on your hood!

Put it like this: We might see a dozen cars during grocery shopping. Every auto has different paint. Every auto has many thousands of paint decisions into it. The chemist, engineer, advertiser just to start. How many decisions did they make, and remake, in the creation of the paint job on those cars? Has to work on plastic, has to match interior, has to survive the North Pole and Death Valley, mom and dad both have to agree on it, etc.

It’s what people see. Paint is as much the truck as the silhouette, the engine, the performance.

All those decisions on that dozen cars in the grocery parking lot and exactly NONE were made by you. Until this build. Now you make ALL the decisions, all thousands of them. Paint coloration, quality, and application. It’s a thing. It is what people see – and it is what you will see. Therefore, it needs to be right. And, that’s up to you!

For this build, the decision tree went like this: what do I have, what do I want, what does the truck deserve, budget.

What I had was disputed. Was it patina? Was it an old respray? What I wanted was a period correct paint job. The truck deserved an honest paint job. I budgeted way more than I spent, but that was just lucky.

If I have original paint, patina, then I have period correctness. So I started there. I just needed to know what I had, easy!

I was sent packing by one auto detailer shop. Finally referred to the owner of a place, he looked at it, shook his head, and pointed at the exit gate. Barrett’s comes through my town – there should be tons of detailers available, right? Not one. Sure, I could pay a grand plus for someone to fly in from a commercial shoot, but that wasn’t happening. Absolutely nobody would take on the truck. One dude looked at a picture, said no. Month later texts, he had some time, could he come look at it. Sends his guy over the next week. Texts me this exactly: “Get it painted and I’ll detail it”.

So I am without a team. No expert help. I start earning my degree in paint. Here’s what I remember from months of watching youtube auto detailers, reading the internet, all the threads on paint and there are a lot of them.

First, you have the surface to be painted. Metal, yes, but what kind? Does it rust easily? What kind of nonmetal moldings did they make back then? Has the original surface changed in fifty years – will it still take paint?

Then we have the paint layers. Primer, paint, in my day. Each layer, metal, primer, paint, expands and contracts differently. Are the layers still adhering to each other? Is the metal rusting from under the paint? Is the paint weathering off of the metal? Flakes, chips, scratches? Can you sand the original paint without turning it to dust?

What is patina? Is it particulate matter resting on the paint each evening for fifty years becoming a layer? Is it cellular – plant matter resting on the paint, or, is it chemical matter eating the paint, or, is it shim shaped rock shavings poking into the paint, or, is it velcro shaped vines of something metallic or plastic plastered onto the paint? Imagine fifty years of splatter on your paint. That’s patina.

Just how the hell do you get that off, to reveal the original paint?

What is auto detailing? A process of cleansing to first remove loose particulates, then dissolve grime into solution without harming the paint, then cleaning the actual paint, then applying solution to be absorbed by the paint to protect it, then applying a coating over the paint. One thing astounded me.

Somebody said dry paint is like dry skin – lipids work on both. Lipids? Are you kidding me? Be careful – that is true and it’s the other stuff in the lotion for your car that can harm your paint! End of the day, easy off oven cleaner is a viable treatment for my patina – heck, it is the same problem – same solution for baked on grease and grime, cooked on stains…

I can rub off a 4”X4” square of patina in an hour. It is SO BEAUTIFUL. I can power buff a 4’X4’ square in an hour. It’s Pretty enough. So I do. And you know what? The doors look perfect. If the whole truck looked like those doors, I’d keep it like that. But it didn’t .

Someone sanded that thing for paint – specifically the bed, a very long time ago. But they didn’t paint it. The patina was on bare metal as much as overtop red paint. Strangest thing. Nobody figured it out. I found the swirls and marks from many dudes trying to resolve that paint problem over many decades. But every night – the patina set in, building itself up again. When I finally got her cleaned up – she looked like she was ready for paint. Not like a cool old paint job that could be clear coated. Like a POS ready for paint; no money for paint; back yard sittin, hidden; under a tarp, stashed; ugly, old, future barn find, automobile. Almost killed me. So many hours.

I concocted rusto solution out of salt and vinegar and hydrogenated peroxide – made me sick to fake rust it but it did look cool from two feet. The problem was from twenty feet it looked like amateur hour. I just couldn’t do it. So I needed to paint. And fast. My daily aint no eyesore. That meant studying old trucks just for the paint – learning how to search for early 60s trucks with various paint applications. Ended up watching walk through videos of truck shows and parades. The look I liked? Single stage paint. They had the period correctness I was looing for.

So you can strip to bare metal, primer, paint, paint, clear. You can do less of any. I’m not even going to get into the quality of paint. Let alone, the quality of a professional painter. I watched a ton of videos of people rating paint shops. Found the vids rating shops for specifically trucks, then for resto trucks.

Somewhere I jumped to MAACO. Found out that our friend Earl Shibes was onto something. He had a quick, cheap, and workable process. Learned from enough youtubers that if you find a maaco with a good painter, good manager, it’s good. Cut to today – and that is what is on this truck. Painter has 17 years in the shop. His assistant 15 years in the shop. The manager at the time had been around several years.

I went with a light sand – leaving the old paint under there – maybe primer, and single stage paint. I can still see all the damage from the years – but it’s painted a nice red color. Decided to stick with original color because changing the color meant taking it down to frame, for me anyway, and then why would I not do a rotisserie or frame off resto of all the parts – what, I’m gonna take it apart to paint it but not restore it? Nah.

Finally, went with the original red. And, trusted the painter to pick the white for the bumpers to match a picture I had. I love it. Wife gave me a kiss and a hi five.

Hope you enjoy the pics!

[5JeepsAz]

This thread is more of a storyline like “restos for dummies like me, the story of”; because I need a different way to grasp the build – but I will give you one detailed story. Brakes. Because we do need to stop our vehicle after we get your resto running and driving.

Brake job #1. My truck had a brake job before I got it.

I know this because I have the previous one hole brake master cylinder and some pieces of brake pads also called shoes, I think. Anyway they came with the truck in a box. Although pads should be called socks and the brake drum should be called shoes, if we are being correct. Even though tires are called shoes. Why argue with history.

Brake job #2. What was up? So brakes #2 was just pads and safety check, mainly because easy and it would fit whatever was on the truck, done during my ownership. The pedal was hard as a rock, the lines were not leaking or replaced, and the truck did stop. After that she got squirrely on me, it just felt like two different trucks were stopping – the right front and the back left, sort of at the same time. Awkward. It got worse.

I was driving along happily one day in the right lane on a five lane road – two one way, two the other way, and turning lane. I do believe this was before the law against texting and driving. Hey man, I’m modern. I did it. When I glanced up the light changed, yellow, then red. Somebody dove in front of me to get the open spot. I jammed the hell out of those brakes. Did I mention this is no power steering? Then I swerved uncontrolled from the right lane to the turning lane. That was the end of the current brake set up. I thank God I didn’t kill anyone. It was also the end of phone usage while driving a resto.

Brake job #3. So, the brakes were “addressed” for the third time. We went around and around like the new wheels would, about whether to go with period correct drum brakes or the more sure and more costly disc brake conversion.

Half drum, half disc? No disc? No drum? As usual, I started at the beginning. Research.

Decided to go with a new drum brake system. Tried to measure the drums. The earlier willys trucks have whole brake system repair kits. But not the early J series. Mine had an odd size drum on it. An inch larger than replacement parts from the earlier trucks. Not a damn thing fit properly. So it meant completely changing out the brake system, to smaller brake drums than what was on there originally, including all new fittings and plumbing.

Not a chance. Don’t tell me a smaller brake drum is better than a bigger one. That makes no physical sense, I don’t care about better efficiencies. I just went across three lanes of traffic trusting modern replacement parts. If I want effiicient, I’ll go with discs. Be careful what you wish for…

Which meant reconsidering discs.

Because if I had to replace the drums and plumbing all around, then why not replace with new disc brake set up?

Three reasons: first, you have to grind your axle to fit discs; second, you have to pay for it; third, your original wheels might not fit, and that means your new tires already purchased might not work.

Well, can’t go with drums all around, perhaps consider front discs and back drums? I thought about. But I would still be tearing down the back brakes – why not just do it right. If I have to go with front discs, might as well go all around.


So I looked into it. Oh great – you can get a front disc package and a rear disc package. It’ll work.

So we proceeded. But wait. There’s more…

What’s that you say? A what? A dual reservoir proportioning valve master cylinder? Get it off a corvette? Why in the hell would I do that? Because there is no other way to be safe? You mean I need two reservoirs, one as a backup, and two different streams of juice to the brakes, different pressurization to front and rear, and we don’t know which master cylinder deal will fit the truck, supply the right juice, and be quality?

So, really. I’m supposed to have a truck with new brakes all around, new plumbing, grind my axles? But only at the end, when it’s all on there, only then will I fill the gigantic hole in the engine bay where the master cylinder goes? That’s a lot of faith. Also the only way to guarantee proper fitment and function. My resto is going to include parts likely coming from a reinvented 78 Vette part?

Yep.

They all got it done.

Enjoy the pics!

[bmorgil]

Az as discussed in my PM to you, your Thread has been shortened. Anyone who would like the complete posts to this point please PM me and I will send you the PDF files. These files are too large to attach here.

[5JeepsAz]

Looks better! Thanks bmorgil.

[bmorgil]

As soon as you go get it, lets see some pictures of the cylinder head AZ.You should take some pictures of the shop working on the motor and the shop where Cindy lies.

What kind of costs have you incurred on this thing now? It would be interesting to see what you have done so far and what it has cost.

[5JeepsAz]

few hundred bucks to source, ship, prep replacement standard head in runner condition:

[TJones]

Boy that sounds like a good deal AZ.
I need to pull the heads off the Orange Crate this winter and send them out to have them gone through. The company I bought the engine off of in Michigan (Fraser Engine Rebuilders) reassured me it was “completely rebuilt” but what they meant to say was it was “completely worn out” what a bunch of Crooks they were!!!

[bmorgil]

Az, were the valve seats reconditioned already or does your machine shop have to recondition the seats? I take it the shop is going to use the valves and such from the old head? So for a couple of hundred bucks you have a head casting ready to be assembled.

Just to be sure what you are doing here Az, you found a good (not cracked) cylinder head casting and have a shop doing the valve job and assembly for you? That is the way to go. How much is it going to cost you to get it running again? It shouldn't be long now, a valve job and back on the motor.

[5JeepsAz]

TJ, it could still be the same as your situation. Great seller, 30 years of builds for people, referred by a satisfied customer resto guy, and it arrived as described. Need to run it awhile when it gets back.

Bmorgil, debate about the valves resolved when they were not the same wear, so they all got replaced. One shop did the head. now it is back to my mechanic who oversees the reassembly.

Hopefully, home stretch. Ill post more when it happens

[TJones]

Let’s hope it’s not like mine, I could of built a blown LS V8 for what I ended up putting in mine after the Crooks in Michigan got done with me:(:(
It sounds like your real close to getting Cindy on the road, keep us posted on your progress!!

[bmorgil]

Looking forward to it Az! It will be very interesting to see this happen. A cylinder head rebuild and replace is a common thing for classics. Your project is an excellent example of the classic "Valve Job" of old. When I was young, it was the first big maintenance item on your vehicle. At around 50 to 75,000 miles you usually had to do a valve job if you wanted it to run like new again. Then by 100,000 miles the rings were gone. So at 50,000 the valves and then at 100,000 it was usually time for a complete rebuild. Times have certainly changed as modern engines seem to run forever. Step us through the cost if you don't mind AZ. WE get a lot of questions on what to expect for costs.

[5JeepsAz]

Bmorgil, we sourced a replacement head for under $300.00, instead of a costly engine swap. Shipping was much less than we expected. Luckily the sender knew how to pack a pallet, saving that money, but did spend 75 for the forklift at both ends. Found a website where you take the weight (owners manual or spec manual), and it gives you selection of prices / companies for your shipment.

[Kimberly J-300]

It looks amazing. Gives me a little boost of energy to keep working on mine.

[5JeepsAz]

It looks amazing. Gives me a little boost of energy to keep working on mine.

Thanks! Yours will be awesome. Mine just cranked today for the first time in 9 months. Sent you a PM.

[bmorgil]

AZz, 9 months? Poor Cindy!