Tornado 230 OHC she's milky pls help diagnosing

[5JeepsAz]

Milky oil at dipstick. Tornado 230 stock except for vacuum cannister add and a/c add and disc brake MC add. Underneath checks out. Timing cover checks out. Down to removing the header. Either its a flaw in the block or somehow the cross feed is mixing oil and coolant. Help please and appreciated. ?

Edit: one suggestion was check PCV (keep you posted on this)

[bmorgil]

Az, take it down to the shop and have them pressure check it. We are looking to be sure it didn't blow a head gasket. Barring that I would say a little condensation got in the oil. Has it been going on short runs? Hot days and cool desert nights? Did you wash off the engine with a lot of water? If it passes the pressure check change the oil. Or change the oil and roll the dice that all is good and you didn't waste an oil change.

The oil needs to get warm enough to vaporize the normal condensation that occurs. Contrary to popular belief cool oil is not a good thing. You need to bring the oil up to temperature once and a while to keep the water boiled out. It would be great to run the oil above 212 deg. for most of the time.

[5JeepsAz]

Az, take it down to the shop and have them pressure check it. We are looking to be sure it didn't blow a head gasket. Barring that I would say a little condensation got in the oil. Has it been going on short runs? Hot days and cool desert nights? Did you wash off the engine with a lot of water? If it passes the pressure check change the oil. Or change the oil and roll the dice that all is good and you didn't waste an oil change.

The oil needs to get warm enough to vaporize the normal condensation that occurs. Contrary to popular belief cool oil is not a good thing. You need to bring the oil up to temperature once and a while to keep the water boiled out. It would be great to run the oil above 212 deg. for most of the time.

Thank you - yes it is in shop already for a clutch. Said why not change the oil while it's in there. It was milky. Thus the hunt. They did say they found two more oil leaks. So that it good. They are checking the presuure and I'll keep you posted. ..

[51 CJ3]

No need to hit the boiling point for water to evaporate. Generally speaking, 180F is plenty high enough to evaporate the water out of the oil. The rule of thumb in aviation is operating temp for 30 minutes and people try hard to keep the oil temp 180–200F.

[bmorgil]

Agreed Jeff, warm is key. 180 to 220 deg f is usually the agreed upon optimum oil operating range most companies concur on. Most high performance engine builders would also like to see for a dual-purpose car, engine oil of at least 220 degrees F to burn off all the deposits and water. Of course it varies a little depending on the lube. I have seen NASCAR engines run at 300 for a long time. They wish they could cool it down! Synthetics are an amazing thing.

Usually in a motor vehicle the oil will run 10 to 20 degrees hotter than the water. In a classic Jeep running a 165 thermostat, it becomes a little more important to change the oil out if it shows any signs of water. This is one of the reasons oil changes are recommended based on time. It is going to be mighty tough to hit these temperatures in a lot of applications (grandmas grocery car). So there are anti corrosive additives and a recommendation to change it after a certain time frame. Oil that doesn't get warmed enough accumulates sulfur among other things. Sulfur is the anti-bearing!

[51 CJ3]

Lubes and metallurgy have come a long way. I remember when it was time to get rid of a vehicle or overhaul the engine when it hit 100,000 miles. It was a sin to drive one more than 3500 miles without an oil change and tuneups were almost as common. The F150 STX (4.6L) I drive now is pushing 210,000 miles on 5000 mile oil changes and 2 spark plug changes. I half expect to get another 200,000 miles out of it.

[5JeepsAz]

Thank you.. Love the knowledge. Bmorgil, ignoring your illustrious warning about Sulphur problems. In fact, I'm adding the sulpher smell to the fence post as a smell thief deterrent - the Sulphur smell approach".

[bmorgil]

That stogie of yours produces enough sulfur to keep more than the fence away! Just pull that choke AZ..... pull that choke.

[TJones]

Lubes and metallurgy have come a long way. I remember when it was time to get rid of a vehicle or overhaul the engine when it hit 100,000 miles. It was a sin to drive one more than 3500 miles without an oil change and tuneups were almost as common. The F150 STX (4.6L) I drive now is pushing 210,000 miles on 5000 mile oil changes and 2 spark plug changes. I half expect to get another 200,000 miles out of it.

Your right CJ about lubes coming a long way!!
I’ve got a Dodge Ram 1500 I bought new in 2014 and Pro Car the engine guru who built the motor in the Orange Crate is a Amsoil dealer. He convinced me to drain the oil on it when it had 22 miles on it and switch to 5W-20W Synthetic Amsoil.
I asked him how often I should change it and he called his factory rep and they said if I’m not going to go 12,000 miles between oil changes don’t waste my money. Granite it’s not cheap ( like $60.00 for 2.5 gallons ) but it’s worth it in the long haul.
The Black beauty has 133,000 miles on it now and doesn’t burn a drop between oil changes and still runs like it did on day one.
So I agree lubes have come a long way!!

[5JeepsAz]

No idea how I missed these posts! My apologies. I must have been visiting Cindy and smoking inside the interior with the windows closed to improve the fragrance for when I get her back from the shop. She almost smelled clean when I put my nose in the window to smell her up. Hey - check out these engine pictures! They've pulled all kinds of wires and plugs off and left the beauty of the OHC visible for all to see. Apparently, the one part passed a "block compression test" and the other parts are getting cleaned up and gasket checked. If it's still dripping coolant fluid into the oil pan then it's off engine-matic for a refurbished head something to identify and repair any topside cracks in the metal pieces in the engine so they wont leak anymore.

[gmwillys]

I used Amsoil in my 2000 Chevy 3/4 ton. I worked with a guy who was a part time dealer, and he offered me a free oil change to try plus sponsorship for the derby cars. At 6,000 miles I sent in an oil sample for analysis, and it came back clean. The truck had 189,000 miles on it when traded in, with no engine or transmission work ever needed. Good stuff in my opinion.

[LarrBeard]

I am still reveling (that's a 25-cent word for happy as a pig in slop) in the new thermostat for Ham's '48. We went out for a show and tell last week on an 88-degree afternoon and the needle eased up to 160 and as we cruised it would slowly ease up to about 175, then come back down to 165 or so as the 'stat did its thing. It DID NOT run up to 211 and then come back down. No stress anymore - either on the engine or the driver!!!

I'm almost getting complacent about watching the Temp gauge...

[bmorgil]

Just stab it and steer Larry! Full speed ahead.

[5JeepsAz]

I'm worried about this being a rabbit hole. You guys are usually the careful ones, and I'm usually like heck with it just run her dry.. but this case I'm torn and am doing the right thing. while it seems extreme yanking apart the engine, trust this guy completely so I'm going along with it. I think the oil leaks are finally solved. That would be amazing.. The clutch is fixed at the slave cylinder. Easy fix. and the master cylinder got warranteed again, so brakes work not soft. Anyway it's operational. but in the process find the milky oil. I'm thinking he found something. He is very good. I am worried what it is. A crack? Yuck. I'm certain that I could build his thing better and better. So if this is just hot rodding it a little at a time I'm against it. All I want is good enough.. so...it'll be weeks, not days.

So I'm saying, yes,I will have a decision to make if its not the gasket.

And normally I'd chunk some soup in it to hold it tight.

But what if I blow the engine?

Anway, first thing is in a week or two is testing the gasket.

[bmorgil]

If it is a head gasket Az it must be fixed or eventually, even with stop leak measures, it will stop running. If it is pumping water into the crankcase it will quickly ruin the bearings and potentially destroy a lot more. If it comes back diagnosis head gasket, it is time to at least change the head gasket. Depending on the miles and how much water is in the oil, will dictate whether or not a full rebuild is in order. A crack in the head can be detected at the rebuild of the head when it comes off. A crack in the block can be more difficult with the engine block in the vehicle, depending on where it might be and how small or detectable it is.

Cracks are usually a result of a freeze up in cold climates, or a severe overheating event. There are many other things of course but yours has been running well for a while. I would not expect a crack.

[LarrBeard]

"...And normally I'd chunk some soup in it to hold it tight....""

Resist that temptation. It is a temporary fix at best and in the long run adding "soup" gunks things up so badly you end up fixing several issues once you have to address them.

[gmwillys]

No matter what racing or car legend put their face on a can, don't go with the soup.

[5JeepsAz]

On the sad side. My guy tells me today mine is down to one fatal crack in the block before the scrap heap. Praying it's a problem in the head that can be mochined away. It's not a gasket. It is worse than condensate on the dipstick. Whole thing is in open heart surgery. The one machinist in town who knows the engine promised to show up today and never made it. Tomorrow, we are sure, he will be there to save the day. Yeegadszukes brothers! On the good side, it's the bigger version of the engine, so when it works again, I can use more pedal. Which will be good.

[5JeepsAz]

So the winning prediction was this one:

"The 230ohv likes to crack under the cam towers in the head, real commom, It can be repaired by making a metal gasket onder the cam towers".


So we hunt for more problems and if none we fix and button up and I'm back in business baby!

[5JeepsAz]

Back in business if it means the following:

Worst case I'm out some cash AND no running Kaiser-Willy’sJeep Truck. Back to square one.

Best case I've got a running truck, a 3spd on the floor with a built in emergency brake, and a complete motor on a pallet waiting for the coolest Tornado rebuild ever.

Put it this away: supposedly a pallet could arrive with a bunch of stuff on it that may or may not be "operational".

Can wait to write this one up. More as it happens.

[5JeepsAz]

Plan:

1) clean up and install replacement head.
2) refurb donor transmission and install. I like the direct drive in 3rd Gear, so will solve speed with larger belted tires if needed. Want to see how the floor shift works out.
3) we're gonna hotrod us a Tornado 230OHC! Will need lots of helpwith the extra engine bought for the purpose. Keeping it retro, so no Tech. I think bmorgils wrote this article just for my benefit, or could have.

https://www.musclecardiy.com/performance/how-to-build-racing-engines-sumps-and-oiling/

[bmorgil]

This is the fun part AZ! Hot rodding is was the life blood of American Automotive ingenuity. Because of hot rodder's, we have the vehicles we have today. I didn't write the article to say the least, however I know you get the point!