Gizzard's M38A1 Restoration

[Gizzard]

Here we go!

The specimen as I found it in the wild. Ugly as hell but it spoke to me.

Engine runs on a couple cylinders, and was able to crawl up on the trailer. But It had potential....came from a ranch in dry west Texas so rust was minimal.
Data plates taking a dirt nap somewhere.......Did however find engine MB number and a couple serial numbers stamped on the top of drivers side front rail just aft of the front bumper.
No idea for sure what year it was produced.....someone looked at the engine number and thinks its 55

8373


Got it home and went to work removing all the unauthorized junk. Had goofy parts hung all over it. Bubba was a busy boy.

8374

Ready to pull engine and trans assbly, and start cutting the suspension off
8375

[Gizzard]

More progress, frame ready for blasting.

8376

[Gizzard]

Getting engine block, crank and head ready for machine shop

8377

[TJones]

Damn Gizzard;
You didn’t waste any time getting her stripped down to the bare essentials!!!
Looks like your for sure heading in the right direction.

[gmwillys]

As the resident patina guy, I don't see any ugly in your pictures. You are doing a great job on your teardown, and are definitely keeping this organized.

[bmorgil]

Flying through it Gizzard! Looking good man. It appears to be all there. I expect this to be a nice one!

Bob

[Gizzard]

Unsure what windshield was stuck on it, but I dont think its original.....what yall think?


8378

[Gizzard]

Uncovered these:

8379
Frame

8380
Engine


I've tried looking thru the data on various sites for clues to identify the year model etc, but no dice.

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE=Gizzard;16966]Did however find engine MB number and a couple serial numbers stamped on the top of drivers side front rail just aft of the front bumper. No idea for sure what year it was produced.....someone looked at the engine number and thinks its 55"

Engine numbers are not all that reliable since the F-134 can be swapped around between just about anything after '51 - and retrofit into '48's. The frame numbers are one of the best bets to figure out just when it was built. Your DMV may take those as a VIN when you get that far.

And, Bubba and Junior can do a lot of things when they get a hot stick or gas wrench in their hands under the shade tree.....

Has it been 12-volted?

[Gizzard]

Has it been 12-volted?

Yes, they 12 volted rigged it, and its all thrown in the trash bucket. Gonna be fun hunting a complete 24 volt system for it:D

[LarrBeard]

They're really not too hard to find, just bring money...

Like everything Jeep!

[gmwillys]

The Windshield is from a later CJ5 or so, judging from the amount of rake it has. The mirrors probably came from the same donor from the looks of them. The original windshield would have been a two piece glass design, with a rubber seal between the two panes.

As far as the serial number, the engine is at least correct for the model designation of the prefix MD. All M38A1s were MD Willys model MD, while the M38 was an MC, and the WWII Jeep was a MB.

https://www.jeeptech.com/models/m38a1.htm

http://www.m38a1.com/Registry/registry.htm

[bmorgil]

gm is the man!

[Gizzard]

Thanks for the replies.


Here's a closer look at the tub. planning to replace floor pans, tank well, and maybe bed floor. Outer body parts are ok with a few whiskey dents with bondo, but not too bad.

8383

8384

8386

8385

Bondo monster got a loose on the tailgate area.....1/4" in a couple places. Seems they were attempting to smooth it out for a camo vinyl wrap that was covering the body at one time.

8388

[Gizzard]

BTW, could this be real? Lotsa miles at 40 mph;)

8389

[5JeepsAz]

That yellow could become interesting. So glad you brung us a feast for summer!

[gmwillys]

The tub doesn't look too bad at all. The Jeep pictured above was a lot worst wear when it was brought in. The pictures bellow were from the starting point.

[bmorgil]

The tub looks pretty good considering. I would say absolutely that speedo could be correct. Mine was still functioning.

[LarrBeard]

MB, MC and MD; I didn't know that - until now ...

I had a strong suspicion that the engine was an M38-series engine from the fording valve just above the fuel pump (not a civilian F-134...).

If the yellow paint is the bottom (or next to bottom) coat, it could have been a flight line vehicle at some time in its' life.

[LarrBeard]

Gizzard:

We were passing this around last week in PM messages. I found these in the old International Harvester complex here in Ft. Wayne. Your tub isn't in all that bad shape. Just get a good spot weld cutter. Ira once said; "If I say I'm going to cut out another brace, just take me out and shoot me". We believe welders got paid piece work for each spot weld.

[Gizzard]

Gizzard:
. ......... Just get a good spot weld cutter. .


Thanks again for the info guys.

Is there one type that is better than others? Source?
'

[Gizzard]

Original wheels were stolen before I acquired the jeep so a set of torched out misfits with may-pops were fitted to get it home.....trash now

Been on the hunt for a set......Which wheels were original?

[LarrBeard]

"Is there one type that is better than others? Source?"

Google "Spot weld cutter". Horrible Freight has one, Amazon has a number of sets with replaceable double-ended cutter blades as well as a special drill bit.

Snap-On tools has a number of different size spot weld drills, but you pay Snap-On prices.

You pays your money - you takes your choice ... in the end you pay the price.

By the way - nice Avatar

[gmwillys]

The original wheels were Kelsey Hayes 16" X 4 1/2". The link listed is pretty darn close to the military spec wheels from what I can tell from the picture, even though they are called out as civilian. The photo bellow shows some original wheels with the date code of 1953 on a couple of the tires, so they were a good example of the original issue wheels. Don't be persuaded into wasting money on M151 MUTT wheels. Yes they have the same bolt pattern, but the center is not large enough for the center hub on the front axle. Plus the offset is different, thus tucking the tires danger close to the rear inner fender wells. the second photo shows the M151 wheel on the rear for a rolling frame. Then another A1 with the tires mounted on the rear.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/steel-civilian-wheel-rim-16-fits-41-71-jeep-willys

I've used spot weld cutters by all different makers. The expensive cutters work just as well as the cheap HF versions. The M38A1 required both the cutters I bought from Woodward for around $40.00. The Harbor Freight ones were around $7.00 per. All I know, they make the job so much easier.

[Gizzard]

The original wheels were Kelsey Hayes 16" X 4 1/2". The link listed is pretty darn close to the military spec wheels from what I can tell from the picture, even though they are called out as civilian.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/steel-civilian-wheel-rim-16-fits-41-71-jeep-willys


Yes, I was scared away from those wheels while viewing them on the Kaiser site because of the civilian designation listed. If those are indeed a match to the original wheels then I'm onboard.

Good info on the weld cutter. I like good tools....buy once cry once, but I have many Harbor freight tools that do the same job as snap-ons. I'll check um out.

The Avatar is fitting I thought.....My handle Gizzard is actually the name of my little 16 year old male chihuahua that sits in my lap all the time....grouchy little bastid:D

[Gizzard]

Question of the day: Repair or replace?

Rear spring hangers are all oblong and wallered out. (Front hangers look OK)

Weld up and re-drill? or cut the hangers off and replace including new rivets and the whole shebang?

Was planning to cut out and replace shackle hanger bushings for sure.

8412

8413

8414

[LarrBeard]

If you are comfortable with welding and drilling, I'd try that first. If it doesn't work, you can still cut them off - but weld/drill seems to be less work (at least at first glance...).

Here's what my spring bushings looked like ... pretty common thing to replace.

[bmorgil]

I like your plan gizzard.

[gmwillys]

I would weld up and re-drill.

[Gizzard]

I would weld up and re-drill.

Yes, thx for the input guys......gonna weld her. Besides that will give me a chance to try out my new rotacut bit:cool:

[LarrBeard]

Oh boy - a new toy to play with! Don't let it eat you up...

[gmwillys]

Sweet! The Rotacut is on my wish list. You'll have to give your opinion to how they cut.

[Gizzard]

Dropped the engine block, head and crank off at the machine shop today.

8425

Looks like the wrist pins got loose on a couple of cylinders and gouged um up pretty good

8426

8427


Bubba has been busy with a pipe wrench on the crank:eek:

8428

[gmwillys]

Keep the Bubbas away from the pipe wrenches/out of the engine bay. In all my time working with engines, I can only think of one time where a large pipe wrench was employed. Even then I cut a piece of pipe that fit the crank snout, and ground in for the keyway to hold it in place. That was to apply pressure to a stuck tractor engine, by hanging weights from the pipe wrench, and allowing pressure/lube/and gravity over time to break it free.

[LarrBeard]

OUCH! That really is a gouge.

But, a good machine shop can sleeve that bore if it won't clean up. Sleeving is a lot easier and routine to a professional than it seems to we mere mortals.

And - don't let Bubba anywhere near an old rifle with either a pipe wrench or a file ...

[bmorgil]

Giz, I am interested in that gouge. When you tear that down let us know if indeed the wrist pin came loose. The design of the wrist pin rod interface is a bit unique. I would be interested in how it failed. Pisser on the crank snout. No need for that ever! You would like to sit the guy down and make him understand the precious heat treating and machining process they just hacked. Well the machinist will touch that up if you ask him. Be careful there. The fit of the front dampener/pulley relies on some press fit. If its too loose it will come loose, shear the woodruff key and do other "things".

Larry, nice barrel vice the "Bubba" had! A true craftsman, in a time before Christ was born.

[Gizzard]

There were actually two cylinders that had matching gouges.......2 and 4

Have no idea why they failed for sure, , but the only way possible is that the wrist pin locking bolt on the rod came loose or was not tightened after bubba got a holt of it.

Machinist called me today....needs two sleeves so far

[bmorgil]

On tear down were the wrist pins out of position? If not the wrist pin holes do seem to collect the stuff that gouges the walls. The other thing it could be if it wasn't the pins, would be pieces of broken rings migrating into the pin holes.

It is very difficult to correctly torque the wrist pin bolt in the rod. The machine shop usually has an offset torque wrench to do the job. I bet you are correct. Someone just got er done, and the bolts came loose or the bolt was not tight enough from the start. I always ask the shop to hang the pistons on the rods on that style rod. The motor is on its way now. Your going to have a sweet running little 134 when you are done.

[Gizzard]

After further inspection by the machinist, it was definitely the the wrist pins migrating out that cause the gouges. Cyl 2 and 4 had matching gouges. We also discovered a odd rod out of the 4. Previous owner bubbanism is strong in this one.

He advised installing a sleeve in cyl 2 ( cyl 1 has an existing sleeve that he said was in spec).....not so much for the gouges but for a newly discovered small crack:p which a sleeve will fix. ......cyl 3 and 4 will get bored out to 60

Crank is at crank shop being magnafluxed and ground if acceptable

[bmorgil]

Very interesting! The importance of properly torquing the wrist pin bolt is now verified. So you are going to have all 4 bored to .060 over?

[Gizzard]

....................So you are going to have all 4 bored to .060 over?

Havent settled on a course of action. All I know now is that it has an existing sleeve at 30 in Cyl one and it will need new sleeve in cyl 2........ cyl 3 and 4 bored to 60 to remove gouge.



Question for someone smarter than me. Can a f134 sleeve be safely bored to 60 over? Is there enough meat? (existing sleeve is bored 30 over)

Is two different bore sizes a no-no? For example : sleeves at 30 and remaining two cyls 60? Balance problems? other?

Im not a machine guy so.....need advice.

[bmorgil]

You will hear a lot of different answers here. It solely depends on cylinder wall pressure. The short answer is no problem. As a GENERAL rule of thumb on a high performance street engine, you want to maintain at least .200 of total wall thickness on the thrust side and .120 on the other side of the cylinder wall. You should have no trouble maintaining that at .060 over. You don't want to machine the sleeve paper thin but it will have a.120 wall if it is a Melling sleeve. There should be enough left in the block to give you enough combined thickness. It isn't uncommon to bore the sleeves so all the pistons are the same size. I have run a few high pressure motors this way. Sometimes when you bore for a sleeve you go right through the old block. If this happens on yours obviously you shouldn't bore the sleeve. I don't think that will happen however on a .120 sleeve bore out. The sleeve has to be finished bored and or honed anyway.

When it is in the boring machine it might be easier to just keep going and sleeve all 4. You already are half way there. See if the machinist will give you a deal on all 4. Then you are back to a stock combination.

[LarrBeard]

Havent settled on a course of action.

Question for someone smarter than me. Can a f134 sleeve be safely bored to 60 over? Is there enough meat? (existing sleeve is bored 30 over)

Is two different bore sizes a no-no? For example : sleeves at 30 and remaining two cyls 60? Balance problems? other?

Im not a machine guy so.....need advice.

A. I would say that .060 is not getting into any thin wall problems. Standard rebuild kits for the F-134 go to .080 oversize on pistons.

B. By the time you are done, cylinders 1,2 and 4 will be sleeved. I'd go ahead and put a sleeve in 3 and make every body the same size. You know, when you rev up to 2500 RPM you don't want to get into any harmonic balance issues on the engine. When you're done, you'll have an F-140 engine .....

[Gizzard]

Just talked to machine shop. We are boring both sleeves and remaining two cylinders out to 60 over.

[bmorgil]

Rock and roll Gizzard! Its gonna run sweet.

[Gizzard]

...... yep, plus this will give me the excuse to buy new pistons, rods, hardware, etc.

Not sure about the cam yet. Kinda leaning towards a new cam just because. ...... machinist is gonna see if it’s in spec.

I told him I want all new valves and seat, guides, springs tappets.

[Gizzard]

Oh, btw, here’s a can of worms..... I read up on crank rear main seals last night till cobwebs filled my head. Rope vs best seals etc...... holy cow. Everyone has a different take on it. Hours worth of videos on you tube.

At this point of the game, I’m not sure. Just don’t want any leaks.

[bmorgil]

The rope seal will eventually weep oil. Just the nature of the beast. I have seen them properly installed go past 50,000 but not much more. The rubber seal is going to be a less touchy installation and a better bet at a good seal the first try. It is important to check the dimension of the seal O.D. in the block. Not all blocks are the same. Not all seals have the same O.D..

The best tip I can give about leaks is to do it the way the factory does it. This technique is used by the top engine builders in the world. Seal up the obvious "holes" in the crankcase and apply about 3 to 5 psi of air to the crankcase. I have several "Jerry rigged" adapters set up with an air regulator. By applying a few PSI to the crankcase you will quickly find any leaks. You will hear the air seeping by the ring gaps and that should be it. The crankcase should hold a little pressure for a just a second or two. The air pressure should only be escaping past the ring gap and out through the valves. Blocking the exhaust and the carb and any other vents, should produce a fairly leak free crankcase, If you hear air hissing out from anywhere besides the ring path, its a leak. A little dish soap and water on a brush and watch for bubbles.

[Gizzard]

Looking over the transfer case a little closer and I discover more of Bubba's fine handiwork:p


Check out this action:

8447

8448



...........and what its supposed to look like for comparison:


8449



Oh boy....guess I'll be looking for one of them too

[bmorgil]

That's gotta have one more shift in it!

[TJones]

Looks like it was supposed to stay in gear from the looks of the piece of angle iron welded in behind the levers, :cool::cool:

[bmorgil]

Good eye TJ, I did not see the "Auto Shift Lock"! The Bubba has now been elevated to thee "King Bubba" status.

[Gizzard]

Been busy gathering parts............lots to share soon!!


Gathering up and hunting parts is half the fun!!

[bmorgil]

Definitely a big part of the fun! You can burn up the keys on your lap top that's for sure.

[Gizzard]

I just acquired a 24 volt starter and a 24 volt generator. They look good, but have no idea if they function.

What options do I have for sending off for rebuild?

[LarrBeard]

I just acquired a 24 volt starter and a 24 volt generator. They look good, but have no idea if they function.

What options do I have for sending off for rebuild?

Other than the 24-volt rating, they aren't much different than their 6 or 12 volt cousins, but the real issue is getting to the connections because of the MIL plugs.

They may not need to be rebuilt - that's the good news. Figuring out how to determine that is a bit of an issue.

Let me poke around a bit and see what I can find for testing options. We went through some of this with Ira/Magoo, so it's not totally new territory.

[Gizzard]

I’m trying to locate and buy the proper fuel pump, with no luck. I don’t have a core so it’s no dice so far

[gmwillys]

24 volt starters and generators are really robust, and don't typically give much issue outside of a voltage regulator acting up, or corrosion in a starter. LarrBeard will have you a path to follow on checking your assemblies out soon.

[bmorgil]

For the fuel pump you may have to jump on eBay or Google and grab what you can find. Then at least you will have a core. I see there are a few places that will rebuild your old one, if you have the old one. You could always use the new replacement dual action pump, are you trying to stay 100% original? That of course always costs more!

[Gizzard]

Im trying for original if possible, but not opposed to the new style, if thats I'll I can find.

I looked at the new style. It appears to have different connection methods.......What type connection is required for the fuel and vacuum lines?

[bmorgil]

These are good places to get into the Military specific stuff.

Here's a good look at the pump.
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7827

This is a great Military Jeep Forum.
https://forums.g503.com/

[LarrBeard]

Checking out the starter is not hard.

The terminal stud on top is power and if you put 24-volts to it, it should spin up. Now, how old and gummy is all of the lube in it and if it is used, how worn are the brushes? Is the commutator scored or burned? Does the Bendix need geased up?

You can take it apart yourself and look, or try to find a good auto electric shop. One with a couple of really old guys would be great - they don't mind taking thngs apart.

The generator isn't that complicated, two wires for the Armature connection, one wire for Field and the case is ground. Getting into the connector is the hardest part and I don't like to "go-fish" in sockets when I have to deal with that much current, (It is a 25-amp generator by the way). I would recommend buying a mating connector and use it to check out the unit.

The mating connector is an MS3106A22-2P. Here is a source for it - not cheap, but cheaper than blowing out a socket on the generator plug if something slips.

https://www.peigenesis.com/en/shop/part-information/MS3106A222P/APH/EACH/61798.html

A quick check of the generator is to spin it with an electric motor and "full field" it - lots of descriptions around on how to do that.

Good luck - and I like the chicken