Is this right?

[Rick M]

Hi all - new to the forum. I have purchased a '45 MB where the previous owner swapped out the T84 and put in a T90. The L134 is not original according to the serial #. Can barely get it in gear without alot of grinding (all gears) and double clutching. Pulled the starter off (also grinds terribly when starting) and noticed that the bell housing configuration appears not to be correct (plus several bolts missing). Can someone tell me if this looks correct; specifically if the hole in bell housing is supposed to align that way? I want to restore it back to a T84 for authenticity reasons and because I don't like the way the shift level housing had to be modified (wood blocks). Many thanks.

[TJones]

Rick M please post some pictures of your dilema and someone will be able to guide you through.

[Rick M]

Rick M please post some pictures of your dilema and someone will be able to guide you through.

Here is the pic that didn't upload.

[TJones]

You are right something doesn't look kosher there, there are "Wizards" on here that have unlimited knowledge on L134 engines and drivetrains. Mine is limited with that set up due to mine has a Buick V6 in it, now if you had a V6 in it I would be able to help ya but you better wait. I am sure either bmorgil, gmwillys or Larrbeard will get on and give you some direction on what is going on and how to correct it Rick.

[bmorgil]

Rick, yes it looks right but the motor plate looks incorrect. I think it is a newer plate on an older block. That would be why there is a blocked timing hole.The teeth are badly worn on the ring gear. I think you are going to have to do a few things to get to the point where we can see what you have. I am going to guess the clutch is not disengaging properly. The bolts all need to be in the bell housing before you can do anything. See if you can get it bolted up and adjust the clutch. I am going to guess that's the wont go into gear issue.

The starter grinding could be a few things but, if we assume it is the correct starter ring gear combination I fear the worst. If you have difficulty getting the starter to engage without grinding but you can get it to work every now and then and crank the motor, it is the correct ring and starter combination. If this is the case the ring gear is too worn to engage the tooth lead on the starter gear. You will have to live with the condition by carefully tapping the starter pedal until you feel the teeth engage then push further to engage the electrical contacts.You are going to have to "nurse" it in to the ring gear before the power comes on and it starts to turn the starter outside of engagement. Turn the engine over by hand with the starter out and see if there are any good teeth on the ring gear. When you put the starter on the clean spot it will probably work just fine. For some reason they always stop on the bad spot. On the 3A there are adjustments for this on the starter switch. There are some posts about the adjustment of a 3A switch. An MB is different switch but the theory is the same. The fix is to sweat on a new ring gear to the flywheel and possibly a new starter gear. If it never engages and just grinds we could suspect it was the wrong starter ring gear combination. Count the teeth on the ring gear and see if you have 97 teeth. That would be the correct tooth count for the original motor. The starter motor (10 teeth for 97 tooth ring gear), bell housing and ring gear all need to be for the correct tooth count. If its wrong it will just grind away. It wont engage properly.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2225-CJ-3A-starter-grinding-Adjusting-a-CJ-3A-Starter-Foot-Switch

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2241-More-on-L134-starter-gear-wont-engage-grinds-against-the-flywheel

[5JeepsAz]

Pictures, man! I just don't feel proper looking into that gear area without seeing her face! welcome on in!

[Rick M]

Hi - thanks for the great insights. It looks like the ring gear is chewed up all the way around. The starter eventually engages which I guess means the pinion finally hits an undamaged spot on the ring gear? I neglected to tell you (sorry - new to this) that this is a 12V conversion also. You are spot on when you say that the clutch pedal won't fully disengage.

Since I was thinking of dropping out the current T90 and putting in a T84, does it just make sense to replace the ring gear/flywheel and clutch all at once? More than I wanted to spend but the teeth look so bad......

And yes, 5JeepsAz, I will get some pics posted. It is a beautiful piece of machinery...on the outside....

[bmorgil]

Yes Rick you are money ahead if you fix it right here. Take the flywheel to the machine shop with a new ring gear and have them resurface the clutch face area and remove and replace the ring gear. It will never stop giving you trouble if it is chewed all the way around. If you have just one or two bad spots you could always move the engine a little and try again. Since the flywheel is off definitely replace that ring gear.

Do you still have a foot start or was it converted to a key start or push button start?

[Rick M]

Key start.

[bmorgil]

If you are going back to the original set up of the foot pedal, it will end all problems with it. Many people do not know how this basic system functions. When properly set up it is the most robust starter you will find. A lot of people have worn out linkage and poorly adjusted starters. They tear up the ring gear and then go to a solenoid setup thinking its the old foot pedal at fault. By then the ring gear is trashed and nothing will work well. The foot pedal is fool proof compared to a key start.

[Rick M]

I will add that to the "to do" list. Thanks for these great tips and guidance.

[LarrBeard]

I've been watching quietly from the sideline, but I wonder, Hmmm:

12-volt conversion - a strong hint of Bubba here ...

Key Start

New Starter - maybe off of a newer Jeep - or something that just seemed to fit?

Do we have a starter tooth count - ring gear tooth count mismatch at the bottom of all of this?

[gmwillys]

Welcome Rick M!

Sounds like Bmorgil has you on the right track. One thing I would add is to look at the starter itself. With 12 volts being applied, the starter Bendix may need to be looked at wile you have it off. The reasoning is that with the boost in volts, the Bendix slams engaged more so then when there is 6 volts. If the Bendix doesn't receive a little lube from time to time, it can hang up against the ring gear and could potentially cause the interface issue. With that being said, I would still follow the advice posted previously because for a ring gear to be that chewed up I would be looking at the tooth count as a starting point.