New guy here. What do I have ?

[Adventure Van]

Hello from Phoenix

I just inherited this rolling chassis/drivetrain from a neighbor. No title. It runs and drives. I plan to fabricate a basic body, get all the mechanical dialed in and use it on the ranch. Can someone help me identify the year/model of the frame and drivetrain so I can source the correct parts? I was told that it originally had a flathead in it. The engine has one motor mount flange facing forward and one rearward and the frame mount attachment point does not line up on the drivers side with that on the engine. The engine also has a dual action fuel pump, which i will not need because of lack of vacuum wipers. Further explanation in attachments. The frame has equidistant motor mounting points and are not staggered, which makes me believe from what I have read that the frame may be from a CJ2A, earlier? The engine number near the water pump is 53441. Any help would be appreciated

[Adventure Van]

More photos.

[Adventure Van]

Two more...

[gmwillys]

Welcome Adventure Van,

The frame you have is definitely a civilian CJ Jeep frame. From what I can see, the F134 has been added sometime fairly recently by the looks of the wooden motor mount blocks. The measurements that you have would coincide with a 2A or 3A frame, and I am agreeable with that assessment. The original engine would have been the L134 flat head engine.

The PTO winch is a great bonus to the project. With the price of steel lately, have you considered an aftermarket body? Fiberglass, foreign made steel bodies, or build your own using American made steel panels from Kaiser Willys? The last option would be expensive, but the panel's would be the right thickness. All this depends on exactly what you want to do. The slate is pretty much wide open, and you could set on just about any body you may want. We won't judge.

[LarrBeard]

The engine is an F-134, possibly from a CJ-3B or any number of other post 1951 vehicles.

GMWillys can probably take one look at the frame and tell you just what you have.

The PTO and big winch are very nice toys.

You have a nice starting place ...

[TJones]

Welcome Adventure Van!!
You definitely came to the right place to get any questions you may have answered!!
You have one heck of a good start to a project!!
Always remember there is no such thing as a stupid question on these pages, if you have one blurt it out because I’m sure somebody’s either been there or done it.
Keep the progress pictures coming once you figure out which direction your heading.

[bmorgil]

Wow a great start. You have a lot of options that's for sure. I did see a fiberglass body that I was very impressed with. The good ones are thick and look nice. The newer body kits are pretty good as long as you get the current production stuff. There are a few small shops making their own versions. Willys Overland in Toledo will fit one to the frame for you. You can stick about any dune buggy body on it. gmwillys makes his own!

I cant wait to see what you choose to do. Definitely a nice star!

[gmwillys]

Check to see if there is a serial number stamped on a tag on the left front outside frame, just behind the front bumper. The 2As were located here. Later models could be stamped on the right side top frame rail near the shock mount.

From time to time body tubs come up for sale here and there. Enclosed are some historical ads that have come up on e-Willys.com;

http://www.ewillys.com/category/body-parts/

A little more information for you to look over;
Fiberglass body history and information:

http://www.ewillys.com/2018/02/03/fred-weis-and-the-fiberglass-bobcat-history/

[LarrBeard]

The engine number near the water pump is 53441. Any help would be appreciated

F 134 engines had letter prefixes stamped on the water pump boss depending on what vehicle or application they were intended for.

"In general ..." and I emphasize "in general", engines for M38A1's were stamped with a prefix "MD".

According to one source, and I see this repeated often:

The F-134 engine number (beginning with the prefix 4J for original CJ-3B engines) is found on the water pump boss on the front of the block. Letters following the engine number indicate odd-sized parts:

A: 0.010" undersized main and connecting rod bearings
B: 0.010" oversized cylinder bore
AB: both of the above
C: 0.002" undersized piston pin
D: 0.010" undersized main bearing journals
E: 0.010" undersized connecting rod bearing journals

Or:

Letters following the serial number may indicate export engines according to one post - but I would put less faith in that since I've only seen it once.

Then, you have the case where the engine was reworked at the factory. It may have a 1T prefix, or 1T may mean it went into a truck or wagon - another difference of opinion.

And, finally, if someone reworked the engine and planed the top of the block, the original number went away. The rebuilder might have stamped the original numerical stamp on the water pump boss (maybe your case) and added a tag on the block casting. On my F 134 I have a number stamped just above the #1 exhaust manifold port - but no water pump boss number. I do not have a PCV valve, just a road tube so I am not sure where or when my engine came from.

"One never knows, do one?" In the long run, if the engine runs - go for it!

[gmwillys]

It is a safe bet Senior Chief, that your engine was originally in a 2wheel drive with the road/slobber tube, (for us two stroke Detroit guys). The PCV wasn't really for emissions, but was for keeping water out of the engine while driving across the crick/creek.

[Adventure Van]

Thanks for the reply and information all. So, based on everything that I have read, it looks like what I have is a CJ2A (1945-1949) frame and an F-134 Engine from a CJ3B and the year is unknown. The frame motor mounts not being staggered rules out the frame being a CJ3A, or CJ3B. I have also been told that the crossmember is from a CJ2A, though, I'm not sure of the difference. Any idea if it is a late, or early CJ3B engine? Just trying to get the close on the year. I do understand that the engine would require a high hood to clear. Regarding the engine numbers, I agree that the block was probably milled and the numbers were re-stamped. Is it safe to assume that all (or most) F-134 parts are all the same, regardless of year? Thanks for the information on all of the bodies. I still think that I am going to fabricate something though. BTW, I think that the PTO and winch are pretty cool too, I just don't know much about them. Comments appreciated!

[LarrBeard]

"...Is it safe to assume that all (or most) F-134 parts are all the same, ..."

The major internals are pretty much the same, but as the engine was used for a long time (1950 - 1971) you will find more and more pollution control and other tweaks to the motor as it got older.

What you won't know unless you get 'way down inside are the over/under size dimensions resulting from overhauls.