51 Truck

[tmonelo]

Hello all, I've started a new project. It's a 51' Pickup with a Buick 231 V6. I saw this for sale earlier this year and I picked it up for a "song and a dance." I've been a Jeep guy for a long time. I had a YJ in high school but I've been without a Jeep for many years. I'm kind of an old soul. I'm not that old but for some reason I have nostalgia for old things and old ways. One of my other projects is a 51' 8n. It's not very practical and has lots of problems but for some reason, I love it. I feel the same way about this truck. It's a mess but I love it.

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So, this Willys has a lot of problems... Once I got it home, I couldn't even decide where to start. I would really like to restore as much as possible/practical. That would mean taking the thing completely apart and starting from the frame up, which I really want to do. But, that would also mean lots of money and many years before I could get it complete. The frame up build will most likely happen, just not now. I really want to just be able to take it down to town. My wife says, "let's go for a drive in it!" I had to break it to her that the old girl won't be road ready for some time, even though it looks pretty alright. My other issue is, many things have been done to the truck over the years that someone thought was a good idea at the time but I don't like. It bothers me to take her down the street knowing there is some really messed up paint or what not that someone may see and think I did, haha.

One of the reasons this is not going to be a restoration is the re-power. The old girl has a v6 Buick. Not sure where the motor came from but the carb is a 78' Rochester. I started with the carb because I've rebuilt a few before, mostly dirt bikes (insert hate for ethanol here). I got the kit and parts form Mike's Carburetors, great company.

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I refitted the carb and shot some gas down the float bowl and what do you know, she fired right up. I have a replacement tank and fuel pump on order. She'll be able to go but not stop. Brake peddle just go's to the floor. I am a bit uneasy about what I'll find behind these hubs...

-I humbly submit this post to the group's guidance, knowledge and experience.

[bmorgil]

tmonelo, welcome aboard! Great story. That is a perfect drive around Willys you have there. I like the V6 idea in the Pickup. You can never have too much power! The drive-able Willys Pickup is perfect no matter how you dress it.

I do recognize that Rochester, that carbs been around awhile! I had one on a '65 Chevy, now that's getting older. Now LarrBeard, he drove his Dad's '48. I'm just saying....

[LarrBeard]

Welcome to the group. You say "It's a mess but I love it" but we've seen messes and you don't even come close to a hot mess - you have all of the windows and you can't see through the floorboards! The attached picture qualifies as a mess...

The "Circle W" tailgate makes Jeep connoisseurs drool - intact ones bring an unreal premium if you have to replace them.

You are wise to consider getting it stopped once you get it running. A lot of restorations/rebuilds have come to a sudden stop (pun intended) when the "good enough" brakes weren't. As that phone commercial said; "If the brakes don't stop it, something else will."

Keep us posted - more pictures as things progress.

Old Jeep Trucks Rule - they are chick magnets.

[51 CJ3]

It’s a good idea to check the brakes before hitting the road after any maintenance to the wheels. I pulled the rotors on mine one day without opening any lines. I always had good brakes before and, since I didn’t need to bleed the brakes, I didn’t give it any thought when I hopped in it for a ride. I have a downhill run at the end of my driveway so imagine my surprise when I popped out onto the street in front of cross traffic with the brake pedal on the floor. I am glad the other driver saw me coming. After I got it stopped I put it in low range and drove back it up to the shop to fix what I thought was probably a blown hose. It turned out that the caliper pistons just needed pumped out with 4 or 5 pumps more than I had time to give them at the street.

[tmonelo]

Turns out brakes were as scary as I thought. Just as I suspected, I'll be ordering many parts to get them satisfactory. Rear hubs came off easy enough but the front ones were interesting. Same type of large locking nut as on the old 8n. Looks like someone used a punch, more than once, to take on and off those large nuts. The bearings are so stuck with 70 year old grease that they barley move. looks like someone stuffed the axel with molasses. I'll have to give them a good bath before I can assess if they need replaced. The shoes and hubs are decent, not perfect. The springs are garbage.

The real joy are the wheel cylinders, they were completely locked full of corrosion (rust, sand, pure cancer?) I could not get them to pull apart until I scrapped out as much crap as I could and then... now, are we to share our shortcomings on this forum? Or, is this an "act like you never make a mistake" type of place? Just asking, not accusing... So, I had a simultaneously great and idiotic idea. I put my air hose to the inlet of the wheel cylinder to force it apart. It worked. The piston came flying out of one end... right into my leg! lol

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Anywho, It looks like in the online stores, the rebuild kits do not come with the metal piston, just the plunger, spring and boot. Is this correct? My pistons do not look serviceable. I'll have to open the wallet and get new complete units. Probly good anyways because the cylinders themselves have seen better days. New hoses will also be required.

Master cylinder kit is already enrt. I'll let you know what discoveries arise when I get into that sucker.

-TM

[LarrBeard]

Yep - I recognize those brake parts.

KWAS has the whole set of stuff you'll need.

OH, by the way - we share our mistakes. Maybe if we share them, somebody else won't make them. But, we are very inventive, we can usually figure out something new if we try.....

[tmonelo]

oh I'm real good at inventing new ways to screw up ha

[bmorgil]

tmonelo, I ended up with factory re-man stuff. The cylinders in everything, as well as the pistons were to pitted to use. watch out for cheap wheel cylinders and masters. gmwillys has posted about difficulties with cheap Crown Automotive brake parts. KW has some "Made in USA" wheel cylinders. I would look for USA made if you can.

I could write a book on mistakes, some of them were video recorded forever!

[test1328]

tmonelo, thanks for sharing your experience with your truck. I'm always interested to learn what others are doing and what problems or triumphs they experience. Hopefully, I can learn and apply these lessons to my projects.

[TJones]

oh I'm real good at inventing new ways to screw up ha


TM your in buddy:):)
Why do you think we’re all in here? It’s surely not by our advancement it’s mostly by our mistakes and the need for Wisdom on to get us through our mistakes.
I could write book like bmorgil on the many mistakes I made on mine like measure twice cut once:):) you can’t believe how thankful I am that the Bride never was around for the tantrums and cussing fits or I would of never heard the end of it (for the rest of my life).
Welcome!!!!

[gmwillys]

Welcome!
Great looking truck!!! Definitely not a bad starting point.
As the rest have said, bring on the admittance of doing the right thing wrong.

[LarrBeard]

Talk about mistakes - "There was this one day... "

It had to be about 1966 and I was working on an L-134 that had come out of an old Civil Defense Jeep - it could have been an MB or GPW back then. For whatever reason, I was working around the front of the engine at the big fiber timing gear on the camshaft. I had used a ratchet on the mounting bolt to turn the gear and the camshaft was sitting up on a lobe. There are holes in the gear and I poked my finger through one of the holes to fool with a bolt back behind the gear when the camshaft kicked off the lobe and turned the gear maybe 30 degrees CCW.

My finger was pinned between the gear and the head of the bolt. Even now, some fifty five or so years later, I can still feel how badly that smarted. After my attack of dumb head, I still had a couple of touches of luck. A – I could still reach the ratchet and socket and B – the gear had kicked CCW and that let me turn the mounting bolt CW to tighten it to get my finger out from behind the gear.

I had a black finger nail for probably six months. If I had been unable to get to the ratchet, I wonder how long it would have been before someone came looking for me – probably suppertime….. .

Then, there was this other day … but that’s a story for another day kids.

[bmorgil]

Oh man you are lucky you have your finger tip!

[TJones]

Oh WOW Larry, that one had me on the edge of my chair getting a little squeamish to stay the least..........
We all have the "Oh D&*m It" moments when you kidda look around to make sure nobody saw it or to see if someone can come help ya:):):)

[tmonelo]

I think that would be a great thread, “The dumb things I’ve done whilst working on a Willys.”

[TJones]

You may be on to something tm :):)
“The Do’s and Dont’s on a Willys Rebuild”
It probably would get a lot of views but not a lot of post!!!
We all know how hard it is to admit when we’re “wwwwrrrroooonnngggg” I mean not right:):)

[LarrBeard]

"I think we're gonna need a bigger server..." if we all start that thread.

[TJones]

"I think we're gonna need a bigger server..." if we all start that thread.


You are probably right there Larry, we should leave well enough alone :):):)

[gmwillys]

There is a beauty of working by yourself. No body is around to see the sketchy, dangerous, or dumb things that tend to happen at the rust ranch. A thread would be something to read, but it would probably take up way too much room.

[bmorgil]

I am afraid the thread would end up on the evening news. "Look what these guy's did!"

[tmonelo]

ha ha

True, lots of people like to armchair everything online. Ask anyone who posts regularly on video sites, lots of comments from people who are watching while the content creators are doing.

[tmonelo]

Ladies and gentlemen, the master cylinder did not disappoint.

I have many questions. Nothing in this looks right to me. Are the clutch/brake peddle return springs supposed to be just hanging on the frame as such?

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I'm not sure this is going to be serviceable. Check out before and after clean-up.

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[tmonelo]

It cleaned up ok, but the bore of the cylinder does not look supper clean. It has some pitting and such.

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This cap is for sure not right. Not even the right thread, which explains the copious amount of pipe sealer goop that was on it.

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The pushrod is slightly bent but I think I can straighten it out.

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I don't really want to buy a new one because of $$$. Also, the shipping is cost prohibitive. There was a crush washer missing and the switch is leaking at one of the posts.

I really should have taken this apart before I ordered the rebuild kit. At this point, I may as well bought a replacement. Just the few parts I need kills in shipping. I'm still waiting on all the other parts I ordered so I can get things back together. Starting to have lots of different systems in pieces all over the shop. It's stressing me out man. I like to work on one thing at a time and put it back together. But, who am I kidding that never happens. I've got a large number of projects all over the place.

[TJones]

tm,
The one thing you have going for ya is it is made in the good ole "USA", so I would say it is rebuildable!!!
The pushrod looks like the previous owner made a "Oh Sh*T Stop" at one time in it's previous ownership :):)
The rest of the pieces parts are fairly cheap to replace, but the shipping like you said gets expensive.
I have done the same thing, I get in a hurry to replace parts and you get online to order it, place your order then you realize you need more parts and if I would of been a little more patient I figure out that if would of ordered everything at the same time the shipping is the same price for all of it, "One of the things that could of gone on the new Thread The Do's and Don'ts" :)
If I would of slowed down, that's why I had a bucket in the shop and cold beer.
Sit down, take a sip, think it through and plan it out!!!
You've got a long way's to go, Get A Bucket :)

[51 CJ3]

I just went down to NAPA and bought a master cylinder when mine failed (piston seized and the rod broke through it). Seems like it was about $50 ready to install.

[bmorgil]

Unfortunately as I said below, you usually end up being better off with a USA factory rebuild. The bore is usually pitted which wont work. Factory rebuilds now a days can be a new casting, a sleeved casting or an over bored casting. If you have a good bore and all the correct parts, A rebuild kit is great. That is seldom what happens. Usually something you need is ruined or missing. Jeff is all over it, it is hard to beat a NAPA re-manufacture or new. Usually they are USA and have a nice warranty. In any event, if you look for USA you will be taking your best shot!

[tmonelo]

Thanks guys, I really want to keep things as original as possible with the truck. Obviously, some things just are not possible and future plans for the brakes on this include an upgrade to front disk. At which point I'll change out the reservoir anyways. Seeing that I have a rebuild kit here, I'm going to try and get it working. I like the bore and sleeve idea.

I have to say, judging by the state of the brakes, wiring, fuel system, and carb, the PO's statement of, "I was driving it around town 6-months ago," don't seem accurate.

-TM

[tmonelo]

Well, I've gotten stuff a little more cleaned up but I am waiting on more parts to get things back together. I honed out the master and rebuilt it. I think it came out pretty alright. I even found the right cap for it.

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I starting putting together the wheel brake systems.

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The hub took some time to clean out but the bearing sets look/feel good. Waiting on an o-ring and oil seal and we'll get'er back together.

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[tmonelo]

Just a small update, I’ve been working a bit on the truck. I was trying to get her road ready for the Christmas parade but looks like I am out of time and there are a few things that I can’t get done..

For starters, let’s focus on the accomplishments. I got the new fuel tank and electric pump installed. The entire brake system is new, save the master cylinder and one hard line. A bunch of wiring has been replaced or cleaned up. All the lights work, including a new turn signal switch. I even got a trailer light harness all fitted.

Now for the bad news. The carburetor is having some trouble. The truck fires up, no problem. But then, it starts running real ruff like it’s flooding or something. There is also a fuel leak at one of the linkage shafts. I’m not sure if there is a missing seal or something. Seems like there is too much play.

The other big issue is the truck smokes pretty badly. I did a compression test and I got 118 to 120 lbs of pressure in all 6 cylinders. All plugs are also firing strong. I’m thinking there is a valve or head gasket problem I’ll have to get into. Either way, not going to make the Christmas parade this weekend… Sad face

[bmorgil]

Its sounds like it is flooding. What is the fuel pressure output of your pump?

[tmonelo]

3-5 PSI.

Do electric pumps have an auto shut off? I wired a switch to mine because I needed to have key power on while working on wiring and that pump would not turn off.

-TM

[tmonelo]

So, a quick look at the diagram for this carb is a bit inconclusive. The linkage in question is the "pump shaft and lever". It does not appear to have a seal or anything on the shaft. This makes me think the pump (the pump inside the carb, not to be confused with the electric fuel pump we were also discussing) was maybe installed incorrectly. It's unclear how fuel is bypassing the pump and leaking out around the linkage shaft. Is it possible there is too much fuel being delivered to this carb?

https://www.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0900c152/80/25/25/1c/large/0900c1528025251c.gif

[bmorgil]

Is it possible there is too much fuel being delivered to this carb

Yes, as I said below it sounds like it is flooding, that would be too much fuel supplied to the carburetor. You need to check the pressure into the carb with a gauge and install a regulator if it is too high. Depending on the float in your carb, it should never be higher than 4.5 psi and could be as low as 2.5 psi. There isn't a seal around the Throttle Shaft. There shouldn't be any fuel there only vacuum. It sounds like it is pushing fuel past the float into the venturi.

It depends on the pump setup if it cycles on and off or not. Some run contentiously and use an internal pressure bypass. It depends on the pump.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2825-CJ-2-through-CJ-6-fuel-pumps-and-pressures