***My 1944 GPW/1945 MB (Sympathetic) Restoration!***

[Mike P]

Hello all! Great forum here. I’ve already learned a lot by poking around and having my newb questions answered in my intro thread so thanks for that!

I’m not much of a wordsmith so I’ll try to keep that to a minimum…

After years of lusting after an “army Jeep” (since I was a child actually) I finally decided it was time to make a dream come true. I have many varied interests from woodworking to hot rods, vintage dirtbikes, vintage pickups etc. so I’m no stranger to the fun of major projects! This one will be no exception but hey it keeps me out of the bars!


A few months ago I made a deal on this pile of parts. My buddy agreed to help me go grab it from Nebraska (we are in Kansas.) He is versed in Jeeps and has a ‘45(?) GPW so he has been a big help in the push to finally get my own.

(To be continued)

[Mike P]

I’m not sure how the forum works as far as pics and stuff. I’ll try to put some here from the day I got it home. Still a lot of OD green hiding under several paint jobs and gobs of undercoating. All together pretty solid though! (My buddy is jealous, ha!)


*edit* sorry about the sideways pics. I guess the forum doesn’t like the vertical iPhone pics?

[bmorgil]

We all have a heck of a time with the "sideways pics". I sure cant figure t out. Keep posting pic's, we live for them! Your project looks like it is time for a resurrection. I cant wait to watch it grow. Lots of pictures Mike! You will find your project a great time. There is a lot of information available on the vintage Jeeps. Definitely check out the g503.com web site. There is a lot on that site about the aspects of your military specimen. gmwillys on this site is also very good with a lot of the military stuff.

[gmwillys]

Mike,

Looks like a good start on a worthwhile project. Please do not hesitate to ask all the questions you may have. We do enjoy seeing lots of photos to go along with the questions.

[Mike P]

We all have a heck of a time with the "sideways pics". I sure cant figure t out. Keep posting pic's, we live for them! Your project looks like it is time for a resurrection. I cant wait to watch it grow. Lots of pictures Mike! You will find your project a great time. There is a lot of information available on the vintage Jeeps. Definitely check out the g503.com web site. There is a lot on that site about the aspects of your military specimen. gmwillys on this site is also very good with a lot of the military stuff.


Mike,

Looks like a good start on a worthwhile project. Please do not hesitate to ask all the questions you may have. We do enjoy seeing lots of photos to go along with the questions.

Thanks fellas! Yes my buddy turned me on to that G503 site as well. Trying to soak up all the info I can find on the webernets , ha!

I’m hoping starting this thread will keep me honest and progressing with the project. I tend to take lots of pics so be prepared! :)

[51 CJ3]

The only way I have found to guarantee a properly orientated picture is to post it from a computer. It seems like every picture I take and post using my phone ends up rotated on the internet. It doesn’t seem to matter how I hold the phone when taking the pictures.

[bmorgil]

Jeff, I remember going through this with you before. I think your right, you discovered it is a "phone" thing.

Mike, in addition to posting pics in the thread, you can also start up a Photo Gallery. It ill give you a good spot too keep all your shots.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/album.php

[Mike P]

I’m going to try to remember to take pics in landscape mode if I think I will be posting them. Those seem to work.

[51 CJ3]

What do you mean by “landscape mode”? Is that an Android thing? I don’t see that option on my iPhone.

Picture orientation comes up a lot in forums. I think the pictures get messed up when taken and posted with a phone in all of the forums I participate in. It would be nice to find a fix. One guy said he uses the editor on the phone to rotate the pictures 360 degrees prior to posting. I haven’t tried it myself.

[Mike P]

What do you mean by “landscape mode”? Is that an Android thing? I don’t see that option on my iPhone.

Picture orientation comes up a lot in forums. I think the pictures get messed up when taken and posted with a phone in all of the forums I participate in. It would be nice to find a fix. One guy said he uses the editor on the phone to rotate the pictures 360 degrees prior to posting. I haven’t tried it myself.

Sorry. By landscape mode I just mean holding the phone horizontally to take pictures. Those pictures seem to post correctly for some reason? (Now that I’ve said that they probably won’t, ha!)

[Mike P]

*Testing, testing 123*

[LarrBeard]

"Testing, testing ... hello - radio, radio"

There is still a problem with the picture. It shows the garage packed full of stuff..... . Surely there is not another garage like mine out there.

Otherwise, OK!

[bmorgil]

Love that picture!

[Mike P]

"Testing, testing ... hello - radio, radio"

There is still a problem with the picture. It shows the garage packed full of stuff..... . Surely there is not another garage like mine out there.

Otherwise, OK!

I’ve got a lot of interests, ha!


Love that picture!

Thanks!

[gmwillys]

I would bet that the Garage-ma-hall at the rust ranch is much more cluttered than all three of your combined at the moment. Between all the shipping crates that followed me home, all three Heeps, and all the miscellaneous stuff, it's packed out. Hopefully I'll get more done on the expansion project in the spring, so I can at least organize it all.

[51 CJ3]

It’s never seemed to make a difference how I hold the phone. I don’t guess I ever tried taking a picture with the phone upside down.

[bmorgil]

It’s never seemed to make a difference how I hold the phone. I don’t guess I ever tried taking a picture with the phone upside down.

HaHaHa! Don't do it Jeff... I tried it and the photo was upside down and I got nauseous!

[TJones]

The only way that I’ve figured out how to make it come out right is to send it via email to a desk top computer and when you save it on your desktop you can orient it the way you want it to post on the forum site. Posting pictures from your phone to the forum is a crap shot on how they turn out.

[TJones]

I would bet that the Garage-ma-hall at the rust ranch is much more cluttered than all three of your combined at the moment. Between all the shipping crates that followed me home, all three Heeps, and all the miscellaneous stuff, it's packed out. Hopefully I'll get more done on the expansion project in the spring, so I can at least organize it all.

Sounds like my GMH!!!!
Between buddy’s snow blowers, weed wackers and everything under the sun needing “can you take a look at this for me”
And the neighbors 1969 D-100 pickup that hasn’t ran in 20 or so years and my Baby, not to mention the other neighbors 2021 Miata that ask ( can I store my Miata on your lift this winter” I’m bout to go CRAZY!!!
I can’t get s**t done of my own, so yeah mines cluttered up as well.
This Ole Boy needs to read the book “It’s okay to say NO”:cool::cool:

[LarrBeard]

One thing we did discover recently is that if you go to a photo resizer and set the picture size as 924 x 696 pixels, it will display as a large image on the screen.

This one works very well:

https://www.simpleimageresizer.com/

[TJones]

*Testing, testing 123*

Mike that’s not a Honda SL-100 sitting up front is it???
I used to terrorize the neighborhood with one identical to that, it’s either a SL or a XR.

[Mike P]

Mike that’s not a Honda SL-100 sitting up front is it???
I used to terrorize the neighborhood with one identical to that, it’s either a SL or a XR.

That’s a ’77 XR75 on I the right side in the pic actually. But I do have an ‘80 XL100s in the other part of the shop. I’ll post a sideways picture of it later! :D

[TJones]

Here’s my GMH today:(:(

1002410025

[LarrBeard]

Your GHM at least still has room for a hospitality area. I don't habe a GMH, since I'm from down south - I have a car barn for the truck. The house has a garage, but the truck is in the car barn.

[Mike P]

Here’s my GMH today:(:(

1002410025

You have way too much room in there!

[bmorgil]

Clearly still room to walk.

[Mike P]

Mike that’s not a Honda SL-100 sitting up front is it???
I used to terrorize the neighborhood with one identical to that, it’s either a SL or a XR.

Here’s the XL-100s. It’s painted up a little different than stock and has a ‘79 tank.

[TJones]

That is Nice Mike!!!!
I have a buddy that collects Old Honda's like that one, he would die for that to add to his collection!!!!

[Mike P]

That is Nice Mike!!!!
I have a buddy that collects Old Honda's like that one, he would die for that to add to his collection!!!!

Well tell him to contact me! I need to thin the herd, ha! And thanks!

[Mike P]

So, back to the jeep! Prior to actually getting her home I had been watching some wheels and tires on marketplace but didn’t want to pull the trigger until I actually had her in my possession. The following weekend I drove a couple hours west and picked these up. And after drilling the old wheels off with a hole saw where some knucklehead had welded them to the studs I was able to get them mounted up.

Better already!

[gmwillys]

TJ's GMH is well over and beyond the rest of ours's. He has a dedicated interior decorator, and his OCD will not let it get all jumbled up. Someday mine will be as nice as his!

The wheels are a well needed improvement. The weld on option for the wheels is just aggravating, but you won the day.

You did well on your Honda XL-100!

[TJones]

Well tell him to contact me! I need to thin the herd, ha! And thanks!

I will let him know for sure Mike!!!

[TJones]

[QUOTE=gmwillys;20772]TJ's GMH is well over and beyond the rest of ours's. He has a dedicated interior decorator, and his OCD will not let it get all jumbled up. Someday mine will be as nice as his!


Your killing me gm, I gotta keep it half way decent the Bride may move me out back one day:D:cool:

[bmorgil]

Definitely have run into the "Universal Lug Nut" a few times myself. I actually had to do it to one wheel on mine to get it on the trailer. Just a tack mind you but, I have seen Bubba use it for a permanent solution!

The wheels look good now Mike!

[Mike P]

On the way home from picking up the wheels I stopped off at another guy’s place. He was selling off some of his 94 year old father’s spare Jeep stuff. Mostly M38 but some MB stuff. We made a deal on a mostly complete but apart MB motor and I also got some more 2A wheels. When I went back the next weekend with my truck to pick it all up he threw in another transfer case and a nice crank and cam (gear drive stuff) and some assorted bits and pieces all for a pretty reasonable price!

[gmwillys]

One can never have too many Jeep parts. If you can't use them, then they will make good trading material for what you do need. Well done Sir.

[bmorgil]

Nice parts Mike! Like gm said, you can't have too many parts.

[LarrBeard]

"We made a deal ... he threw in another "

NOW, That's the way you do it. The pieces and parts look pretty nice from the outside - you did good as a startup Jeep scrounger!

[Mike P]

I got the MB block torn down and took it to the machine shop the other day. I already knew it had a couple cracks in it. One in a valve seat and another between a head bolt and water passage. I was happy to find out they felt confident that they could pin them so that’s good news! They only do head work at that shop so once I get it back from them I have to take it to another shop for the rest of the work.

In the mean time I slapped the ‘49 motor on the stand to assess and clean up. It seems to be standard bore. I may try to hone it and buy some stock pistons/ rings and see if it will run?

[Mike P]

I also spent a little time last week cleaning up and rebuilding the carb I got with the ‘46 parts. I was pretty pleased to find out that most of it is wartime according to the markings on it.

(Dang sideways pics!!)

[gmwillys]

That's great news that the shop can pin the head to fix the crack. It isn't surprising that the carb parts can be dated to the war years on a '46. The very early civilian Jeeps, (VEC) had a lot of parts from the left-over war time stock. Even the early bodies still had the tool indents on the driver's side rocker panel. A fun fact about the VEC Jeeps, the majority were column shift transmissions, and the data plates were three-piece configuration, where the latter is a one piece.

[bmorgil]

Classic screw driver Mike! Cracks between the head bolts and water passages are common. A lot of times it is because someone used a bolt instead of a stud. The bolts almost always have a shank on them that bottoms out before they come to full torque, cracking the casting.

[Mike P]

That's great news that the shop can pin the head to fix the crack. It isn't surprising that the carb parts can be dated to the war years on a '46. The very early civilian Jeeps, (VEC) had a lot of parts from the left-over war time stock. Even the early bodies still had the tool indents on the driver's side rocker panel. A fun fact about the VEC Jeeps, the majority were column shift transmissions, and the data plates were three-piece configuration, where the latter is a one piece.

Yes I have heard this! The distributor that came with that pile is the same as the military too but has a Dec ‘46 date code. Funny enough, the day after I secured the deal for this MB in Nebraska, an early column shift popped up on Marketplace about 20 miles from home… just my luck, ha!


Classic screw driver Mike! Cracks between the head bolts and water passages are common. A lot of times it is because someone used a bolt instead of a stud. The bolts almost always have a shank on them that bottoms out before they come to full torque, cracking the casting.

Yes! The “perfect handle” screwdrivers are my faves! I have heard exactly that about the head stud holes!

I spent a little more time picking at this one tonight. Cleanup and assess!

[Mike P]

Got some new bits for the “overhaul” over the weekend. The cleanup continues!

[Mike P]

Crap. I tried to outsmart the forum by turning my vertical pic sideways but that didn’t work either, ha!

[bmorgil]

The continued saga of the right side up picture.

Some mighty clean parts there Mike! Ya gotta love the "look at all the stuff" part.

[gmwillys]

Great start to the overhaul process.

[51 CJ3]

Crap. I tried to outsmart the forum by turning my vertical pic sideways but that didn’t work either, ha!

I tried rotating a picture before posting using editor on the phone one day. It took 5 tries rotating 90 degrees and saving before I got the picture to post in the desired orientation. I use my computer if I truly want to post hassle free pictures on any forum otherwise I just let them be sideways.

[Mike P]

Still picking away at the engine but I got a box of parts from KW with a windshield to cowl seal in it so I wanted to try it out. The clamps are from eBay and the dash latches are original as near as I can tell.

So, with the latches lowered completely I’m having trouble getting all to clamp down properly? Anyone have any pearls of wisdom? Are my eBay clamps incorrect?

[gmwillys]

This is a common problem with the windshield to cowl latch alignment. The arms of the windshield tend to get bent or flex when the windshield is stored flat on the hood. This also happens if the windshield is stored off of the vehicle as well. The tubing that makes up the arms will deform if dropped or banged around when moving, or even if the windshield is stored on the mount arms in the corner of a storage shed. Our '46 didn't have a windshield frame when purchased back in the 80s, but through a series of horse trades, one was acquired. It took a bit of gentle heating in the radius of the arms to bring it back into alignment, to which after a few trailer rides, it's due to be tweaked again, because the latches are not quite in line again. If you do not want to apply heat to the windshield arms, you could apply tension with a ratchet strap and pull the windshield into alignment. In your case, the side-to-side alignment isn't far off at all. The new seal isn't quite as tall as the old dried out rubber seal that you are replacing, but it is close. The key thing would be to check the angle of the lay back of the windshield. I don't have the degrees of the angle that it should be, but over time it might have laid back lessening the angle that the windshield stands up. To fix that problem, again you can apply pressure forward with ratchet straps to pull the top of the windshield forward to roll the bottom forward to make the needed gap for your latch to work effectively. Just for a bit of useless knowledge, the later CJ3As and the remainder of the flat fenders went to a more durable square tubing arm configuration that hold up better to the life of a functioning Jeep. With that being said, the last picture is of an M38 with the square tube mount, but with poor storage of the previous owner, the windshield is severely out of square.

[Mike P]

This is a common problem with the windshield to cowl latch alignment. The arms of the windshield tend to get bent or flex when the windshield is stored flat on the hood. This also happens if the windshield is stored off of the vehicle as well. The tubing that makes up the arms will deform if dropped or banged around when moving, or even if the windshield is stored on the mount arms in the corner of a storage shed. Our '46 didn't have a windshield frame when purchased back in the 80s, but through a series of horse trades, one was acquired. It took a bit of gentle heating in the radius of the arms to bring it back into alignment, to which after a few trailer rides, it's due to be tweaked again, because the latches are not quite in line again. If you do not want to apply heat to the windshield arms, you could apply tension with a ratchet strap and pull the windshield into alignment. In your case, the side-to-side alignment isn't far off at all. The new seal isn't quite as tall as the old dried out rubber seal that you are replacing, but it is close. The key thing would be to check the angle of the lay back of the windshield. I don't have the degrees of the angle that it should be, but over time it might have laid back lessening the angle that the windshield stands up. To fix that problem, again you can apply pressure forward with ratchet straps to pull the top of the windshield forward to roll the bottom forward to make the needed gap for your latch to work effectively. Just for a bit of useless knowledge, the later CJ3As and the remainder of the flat fenders went to a more durable square tubing arm configuration that hold up better to the life of a functioning Jeep. With that being said, the last picture is of an M38 with the square tube mount, but with poor storage of the previous owner, the windshield is severely out of square.

Thanks for taking the time to write all that out and illustrate the problem/fixes! I gotta tell you, I was hoping my latches were just bad, ha! Seems like an easier fix! Oh well, she is 70+ years old with mismatched parts…:o

[TJones]

Mike I had the same problem with mine until I got pissed and threw the rubber seal in the trash and bought a 1.5” thick x 2” wide piece of foam (with tape on one side) weatherproof and put the windshield frame down on it and beat the latches closed and that’s where it’s at to this day:):)

[Mike P]

Mike I had the same problem with mine until I got pissed and threw the rubber seal in the trash and bought a 1.5” thick x 2” wide piece of foam (with tape on one side) weatherproof and put the windshield frame down on it and beat the latches closed and that’s where it’s at to this day:):)

Haha! I like your style!

[Mike P]

Here is another pic that I forgot to attach before. I almost think part of my problem is that the latches are drilled incorrectly?

If I line up the top hole instead and weld up then re-drill the lower holes the latch would be a bit more horizontal and maybe that would solve my issue (a little anyway?)

Worth a shot I guess?!

Unless of course someone has some originals they want to part with?!

[gmwillys]

That would be the other option to weld up the holes and line up the top one. With that picture, the tale is told that the aftermarket latch isn't quite up to speck.

[Mike P]

That would be the other option to weld up the holes and line up the top one. With that picture, the tale is told that the aftermarket latch isn't quite up to speck.

Yes. That is what I get for buying the $25 set rather than the $100 set I guess!

[51 CJ3]

Was the package labeled? I am curious who manufactured it.

[Mike P]

Was the package labeled? I am curious who manufactured it.

That’s a good question. I’ll have to look but I don’t remember there being a manufactures label on them. Here is a link to the eBay item however. You get what you pay for I guess?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254978827751?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=KgmcurWZShq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=wM-f6VSfS-m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[LarrBeard]

The eBay listing showed:

Shipping:
FREE Standard Shipping from outside US | See detailsfor shipping
International shipment of items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.
Located in: DELHI, DELHI, India

I would suspect it was of Indian manufacture - at least it wasn't China.

[Mike P]

Here’s a quick update to show I haven’t been slacking! I’m still cleaning, blasting, priming, painting, and even some assembling.

Also got this NOS taillight still sealed (well was anyway) in its cosmoline box! Fits like it was made for it…rimshot! :rolleyes:

[gmwillys]

Ah the cosmoline. You are making great process.

[bmorgil]

Love that Taillight! Nice find there. It is coming along nicely. The cleaning is tough work but, it can be very gratifying on reassembly.

[Mike P]

As usual thanks for the encouragement!

So, I bought what was touted as an original latch off eBay last week and lo and behold it lines up perfectly….mystery solved! That’s what I get for trying to be thrifty I guess. Now to find another (reasonably priced) or modify one of the janky ones…

[Mike P]

Also got the engine primed over the weekend and first coat of paint on it last night. Keep pushin’!

*edit* woohoo! Pic orientation on point! (I remembered to take some pics in landscape mode this time!)

[Mike P]

Still picking away at the little banger. I got some more parts in the mail this week. I have an original starter that came with the ‘46 motor I bought. It spins but needs some work/ brushes, etc. and my local rebuilder is no longer in business so I bought a “USA” rebuilt one off eBay that is suppose to be a good fit though it has a 9 tooth bendix rather than the 10 tooth. And from what I’m reading on the webernets the 9 is for the later 124 tooth flywheel rather than the earlier 97 which is fine as I have one decent one of each. However, comparing the gear mesh the 9 doesn’t jive with the 124 at all and actually fits the 97 pretty well? Also, it extends out about a 1/4” less than the original. What gives???

[Mike P]

I hope I haven’t inadvertently offended anyone with all my questions?!

[bmorgil]

No way the questions are offending anyone. We need them to fill the information barrel!

The 9 tooth starter is for the 124 tooth flywheel originally, just as you found. This could get a bit tricky. The diameter of the pinion gear is the key. There are some 9 tooth large diameter pinon gears that will mesh with the 97 tooth flywheel. The flywheel "Bell Housing" on the 97 tooth flywheel motor has a bushing in it to support the end of the pinion shaft that protrudes. The early setup was for the "Foot Starter". Measure the outside diameter of the gear from the original starter and compare it to your replacement rather than the tooth count.

This was an excellent question. I am sure you are not the first to scratch your head on this. The cataloging all seems to indicate the tooth count is the key. That's not quite true.

[51 CJ3]

It’s just a little slower in here on the weekends. I would also like to see the answers to your questions. I replaced a starter with one from a parts store before I ever heard there was a possible conflict with the number of teeth.

Edit: looks like I typed too slow or didn’t check the forums early enough this morning!

[bmorgil]

Every now and then a post slips by and doesn't show up till later or, not at all. I have seen posts that didn't get responded to, that never appeared in the new postings. It's always best to bump the thread that's for sure! If you don't get a response, check and make sure you are getting views. And as Jeff said, everybody might be sleeping in!

[Mike P]

Right on! Ok thanks guys.

I had not heard about the bendix gear size difference but I can see where that would be an issue. This 9 tooth seems to be the same size as the 10 visually. I meant to compare the later starter that I pulled off of the F head that is currently in the MB. I grabbed it thinking I would use it not realizing the later ones have the nose cone as mentioned. I have an MB bellhousing that I will be using that as you said has the support in the bell itself.

I’ve added a couple pics of the differences. I messaged the eBay seller with those pics as well but haven’t heard anything back yet!

Both those pics show the bendix fully extended and as you can see the new one does not extend out quite as far.

[Mike P]

I popped out to the shop to measure a couple things. The f-head starter is indeed 9 toothed but they are much pointier and the overall diameter of the gear is 1.14”. It rolls across the 124T flywheel nicely.

The new MB/2A 9 tooth starter gear has much flatter teeth resembling the original 10T pinion. It measures 1.42” diameter.

The original 10T 2A pinion measures 1.45”

[Mike P]

One more question while I’ve got somebody! Does this head gasket install dry? It did not come with any instructions. I believe it to be a Fel-Pro kit, but I’m not positive? I’m reading different procedures on the Internet. I have some copper coat, ready to go, if need be?

[bmorgil]

If it is a Fel-Pro gasket, install it dry. If it is not a Fel-Pro head gasket, I would get one or a MAHLE. There are a lot of cheap Chinese and Malaysian gaskets floating around. Copper Coat and other sealants are usually used on metallic "shim style" head gaskets. Composite gaskets from good manufacturers are almost always coated and don't require any sealers.

This is a video of an old friend demonstrating a cheap Chinese head gasket. Bill passed a few years ago, but he had a great deal of experience in the automotive aftermarket. He spent a good deal of time in the Dana Customer Training Facility teaching automotive machine shop. He spent time at the various race tracks. At about three minutes in, he demonstrates the bend test. If you try this on a cheep gasket it will crack and or distort and be ruined. I tested a few L134's from different vendors. They were all unmarked and not stamped made in USA. They all failed miserably.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNARNt5eqac

[Mike P]

If it is a Fel-Pro gasket, install it dry. If it is not a Fel-Pro head gasket, I would get one. There are a lot of cheap Chinese and Malaysian gaskets floating around.

This is a video of an old friend demonstrating a cheap Chinese head gasket. Bill passed a few years ago, but he had a great deal of experience in the automotive aftermarket. He spent a good deal of time in the Dana Customer Training Facility teaching automotive machine shop. He spent time at the various race tracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNARNt5eqac

Very interesting video! Thanks for that. Looks like I have a couple of tests to perform before I try to install this gasket!

[bmorgil]

I added more information in an edit to the last post. On the subject of Copper Coat and other sealers on the head gasket,you usually use that stuff on metallic gaskets. The "shim style" head gaskets. The composite gaskets are usually coated and sealers are not a good idea in some cases.

[Mike P]

I added more information in an edit to the last post. On the subject of Copper Coat and other sealers on the head gasket,you usually use that stuff on metallic gaskets. The "shim style" head gaskets. The composite gaskets are usually coated and sealers are not a good idea in some cases.

Thank you for the additional info/ clarification. It is much appreciated!

[Mike P]

I just ordered a Fel-Pro gasket off Amazon. I hope it fits better than this one!

[bmorgil]

Yikes! Is that gasket marked anywhere with any kind of identification or, origin of manufacture? That gasket will not even work. The portion of the "fire ring" that is intruding into the cylinder will immediately burn away and fail.

[Mike P]

Yikes! Is that gasket marked anywhere with any kind of identification or, origin of manufacture? That gasket will not even work. The portion of the "fire ring" that is intruding into the cylinder will immediately burn away and fail.

Yeah it is not good! No markings a that I can find. It was part of a “good quality” full set that I bought. All the other gaskets seemed good as I installed them, but none are quite as critical as this one!

[LarrBeard]

Mike P:

You are asking good questions and there are probably a lot of people watching in the background and learning from your experience.

Don't hesitate to ask.

[Mike P]

Mike P:

You are asking good questions and there are probably a lot of people watching in the background and learning from your experience.

Don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you!

[51 CJ3]

I am one of those people.

[Mike P]

I am one of those people.

Thanks for checking in!

So, I got my new Fel-Pro head gasket. The fit is soooooo much better!

It did not come with instructions but I’m assuming I should copper coat the steel side yes????

[Mike P]

Ooops! Forgot the pics…

[bmorgil]

Mike, with a Fel-Pro gasket it should be installed on a very clean surface, dry. A Fel-Pro will always be marked If it is critical for installation on direction and location. On yours I don't think it is marked "Top" or "Front". So the metallic side can go up or down, clean and dry.

[Mike P]

Mike, with a Fel-Pro gasket it should be installed on a very clean surface, dry. A Fel-Pro will always be marked If it is critical for installation on direction and location. On yours I don't think it is marked "Top" or "Front". So the metallic side can go up or down, clean and dry.

This one is marked “this side up” on the fiber side and the other side is steel. It is not the blue type which is the more modern type I’m assuming???

[bmorgil]

If it is marked "This Side Up" then definitely install it that way. Fel-Pro's are always marked if it is critical to installation. The "Blue" is one of the colors they use. The grey composite is also used quite a bit.

[Mike P]

If it is marked "This Side Up" then definitely install it that way. Fel-Pro's are always marked if it is critical to installation. The "Blue" is one of the colors they use. The grey composite is also used quite a bit.

Oh I gotcha. I was confused. I did some searching on the Fel pro site and found the blue colored gaskets which are silicone I guess?

Anyway, so you still vote dry on the steel side?? I keep finding conflicting information all over the damn web, ha ha!

[bmorgil]

Yup for sure Mike on a Genuine Fel-Pro they go on dry no sealers or they would indicate it.

You are sure right, there are a ton of "ideas" on how to install gaskets of various types on the internet. The "ideas" came from old guy's like me who during the course of our lives heard and were told to do many different things to the many types of gaskets, that were evolving. Things have changed dramatically and the old ideas only apply to the old gasket they were intended for. Nowadays I think you will find most premium gaskets are installed with nothing on them. Sealers on head gaskets are intended for metal shim style solid copper or steel gaskets (or maybe an internet "hack" to make a cheap gasket work for 15 minutes).

[Mike P]

Yup for sure Mike on a Genuine Fel-Pro they go on dry no sealers or they would indicate it.

You are sure right, there are a ton of "ideas" on how to install gaskets of various types on the internet. The "ideas" came from old guy's like me who during the course of our lives heard and were told to do many different things to the many types of gaskets, that were evolving. Things have changed dramatically and the old ideas only apply to the old gasket they were intended for. Nowadays I think you will find most premium gaskets are installed with nothing on them. Sealers on head gaskets are intended for metal shim style solid copper or steel gaskets (or maybe an internet "hack" to make a cheap gasket work for 15 minutes).

Awesome. Thanks for taking the time! I’m off to install the head. Wish me luck!

[bmorgil]

Your doing a thorough job, attention to detail, you don't need luck!

I think I should have been more clear on the types of head gaskets. The "shim" style I am referring to are made from solid pieces of copper or steel. They are not the MLS or modern "Multi Layer Steel" gaskets or laminated composites you usually see. You might refer to them as the real old school style. They are still used today and I use them in certain applications. KW sells a solid copper for the 134's. I use Copper Coat sealer on them.

[LarrBeard]

Ooohhh ,nice!

Almost a shame to hide that between a head and a block it's so pretty.

[bmorgil]

Now that's art Larry!

[Mike P]

Haha! Speaking of art…I may just put it in the study if it doesn’t run?!!:p

[bmorgil]

Very nice!

[Mike P]

Thanks bmorgil!

Regarding the starter, I sent a message to the eBay supplier and finally received this message.

“Our starters are built with the heavy duty Facet Rubber Folo Thru design Drive. Facet designed the drive with 9 teeth to replace the early throw out spring style drive with 10 teeth. We do not have the old 10 tooth available, we only can get the 9 tooth which we have been selling for years without issue.”


So, I guess I’ll give it a shot?!

[bmorgil]

It will work just fine, remember it is the diameter that maters.

[Mike P]

It will work just fine, remember it is the diameter that maters.

“That’s what she said…”

Michael Scott ;)

[bmorgil]

Hahahaha, a quick one there Mikey!!!

10365

[Mike P]

Hahahaha, a quick one there Mikey!!!

10365

Also what she said! Badump bump! ;)

But anyway, I have another question…surprise surprise!
I’m getting closer to firing this little engine which I was told is out of a ‘49 wagon. It came with an Auto-Lite distributor (ICW4189) which has a vacuum advance on it. I’ll assume I can just connect it here (see 2nd pic) for some intake manifold vacuum? Anyone have any pics of a stock routing for the connection? (I’m kind of a detail nerd.)

[bmorgil]

That is a great place for it Mike. I think that vacuum advance was used on Jeepsters and Wagons. On those it came from a tap on the base of the carburetor. There isn't an original location for a MB. It did not have a vacuum advance.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2278-TM9-8015-1-Engine-and-Clutch-for-1-4-Ton-4x4-Utility-Truck-M38A1

[Mike P]

That is a great place for it Mike. I think that vacuum advance was used on Jeepsters and Wagons. On those it came from a tap on the base of the carburetor. There isn't an original location for a MB. It did not have a vacuum advance.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2278-TM9-8015-1-Engine-and-Clutch-for-1-4-Ton-4x4-Utility-Truck-M38A1

Ok cool. Thanks bmorgil. Affirmative on the MB. I have a dizzy that came with the ‘46 parts motor that is the same as military but it’s a little worn out and the advance weights are sticking. I will probably eventually use it if I can get it cleaned up but in the meantime this one seems to operate (on the bench at least?) I guess I probably don't need to worry too much about the advance just to see if it runs but figured I may as well get it hooked up in case this motor stays in Sweet Chee for a while!

[Mike P]

I’ve been cleaning up this generator. I can’t remember which pile of parts it came with?! There is no tag so I’m not sure if it’s 6 or 12V. Are the casting numbers any clue???

[gmwillys]

Mike,

The GDZ prefix designates a six volt Autolite generator, where a 12 volt would be a GJP or a GJC. Now as far as the number 87A or 88 is a different story. A quick Mrs. Google search lead me to a Desoto link to a GDZ 88, but it was just mentioned, and not confirmed. From first look, the generator you have lines up, and has the proper pulley for a Willys application.

[LarrBeard]

"There is no tag so I’m not sure if it’s 6 or 12V"

I poked around the internet a bit too. There is a lot of confusing information out there, but after I sorted through a lot of different posts, this seems to be the most common thread:

The GDZ designations indicate that the generator is an AutoLite 6-volt generator

GDZ-87 (or GDZ-87A) is a casting number for the commutator end of the generator (bronze bearing)

GDZ-88 is the casting number for the drive end of the generator (ball bearing; Fafnir 203PP)

The general consensus of the internet groups is that your generator is likely an AutoLite GDZ-4817-A. That generator was very widely used on many of the civilian Jeeps through the 6-volt era. It would have been original on a CJ-2A. I think this is consistent with a lot of other things we have seen around your Jeep. It is what is called a Type A generator, the field is grounded to put it at full output.

The CJ-2A Service Manual will tell you all you need to know about taking it apart and cleaning it up. If it needs commutator work, you will have to find an auto electric shop with either a real old guy or a young techno nerd to work on it.

You might want poke around this link:

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/generator-rebuilding-a-learning-project_topic43663.html

Good Luck - let us know what you find.

[bmorgil]

Confirmed on the GDZ-4817-A LarrBeard,

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2605-Auto-lite-Service-Parts-Catalog

page 30 and 31.

[Mike P]

You guys rock!!! Thanks for all the help thus far!

[LarrBeard]

"Thanks for all the help thus far"

You are very welcome...

[Mike P]

Still working on the little motor. I spent last weekend cobbling together a little run/storage stand. I got a new battery today and had to run out and see if the new fangled starter would work. Seems good so maybe I’ll have a chance to finish up some wiring and light it off this weekend??!

https://youtube.com/shorts/7xG2TS6CZ6s?feature=share

[bmorgil]

Very cool setup Mike!

I love the YouTube link. A lot of members are trying to figure out how to upload video's. It looks like you have found a great way.

[Mike P]

Very cool setup Mike!

I love the YouTube link. A lot of members are trying to figure out how to upload video's. It looks like you have found a great way.

Thanks bmorgil! Yes I was happy the copy/ paste of the link works as I didn’t see a way to embed it here?
I’m pretty happy with the little setup. Had most everything on hand from past builds of stuff so I didn’t have to buy any steel or hoses!

I pre-lubed the oil galleries/oil pump by squirting through it all from the top filter hose with an oil can until it came out the other end so hopefully we are good to go!

[LarrBeard]

I want to see the video of it running - hopefully you won't have to chase it around the shop!

[Mike P]

I want to see the video of it running - hopefully you won't have to chase it around the shop!

Haha! Well there’s so much stuff in the shop it won’t get very far! ;)

[gmwillys]

I like your test stand. You shouldn't have to chase it around too much.

We run our power packs on a maintenance stand, that is on wheels. At 4,560 pounds, and 320 HP, and 800 +/- pound feet of torque, it stays put fairly well. On my next trip North, I'm picking up a skid used for a fire fighting pump. It was powered by a Willys industrial L134, but when it was put out of service, it wasn't drained and set outside. The pump and engine both cracked during a cold winter, but long story short, it will make an excellent ground hop test bench for any future Heep engine projects around the rust ranch. It has gages and tack/hour meter still in place.

[bmorgil]

A test stand is a very nice thing to have.

[Mike P]

A test stand is a very nice thing to have.


Haha! Well there’s so much stuff in the shop it won’t get very far! ;)


I like your test stand. You shouldn't have to chase it around too much.

We run our power packs on a maintenance stand, that is on wheels. At 4,560 pounds, and 320 HP, and 800 +/- pound feet of torque, it stays put fairly well. On my next trip North, I'm picking up a skid used for a fire fighting pump. It was powered by a Willys industrial L134, but when it was put out of service, it wasn't drained and set outside. The pump and engine both cracked during a cold winter, but long story short, it will make an excellent ground hop test bench for any future Heep engine projects around the rust ranch. It has gages and tack/hour meter still in place.

That sounds perfect! I have a metal stand from a ford industrial v8 flathead that a friend gave me I was going to use but it is pretty wide so I opted for this instead.

[Mike P]

So, this happened tonight!!!

https://youtube.com/shorts/EUkmXTxiVco?feature=share

I need to get some water in it (hopefully it holds?!) and do some run time this weekend. Run it for twenty minutes or so and vary the RPM yes? No revs above 4000k???

[bmorgil]

Nice Mike! She speaks. Don't run it without water on those new rings. I don't know if you are running on a new cam. In any event, no idling allowed for the first few hours. The cam needs sufficient oil splash to break in the cam and lifters if they are new or mismatched from the way they were run prior. The rings can live or die right here. The most important thing to remember about rings is they need pressure to seal. Under load the combustion pressure pushes the rings against the cylinder wall. On a new or rebuild, the preparation of the cylinder wall is the single most important aspect of cylinder seal. The carefully prepared finish is designed to do several things. In the first few minutes of engine operation, the rings "wear in" so to speak. The rings should never actually touch the walls of the cylinder. There is a very thin film of oil that creates the seal. If there is no cylinder pressure the rings will leak combustion gas past them. This will "glaze" the cylinder walls and ruin the new rings. After this they will never seal properly. The oil will get dirty quick and the motor will foul and be down on power.

So bottom line, don't let it idle. Don't rev it too high ever. 4000 RPM is about all that little motor can do. If you looked at this in a perfect situation, you would bolt the motor to a dyno, hold it at a load of about 30 percent at 2,000 to 3,000 RPM for about 20 minutes and call it done. Change the oil and filter. Cut the filter open ad make sure there is nothing weird in the paper.

This video is of Lake Speed Jr, of Total Seal Piston Rings. His father was a legendary Racer. Lake travels all over improving horsepower and durability for the top motorsports teams in the world. The secret to modern horsepower, durability and longevity is in the cylinder finish and ring technology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhA_nVRhYew

Here is what I do if I cannot get to a dyno. I make very sure it is ready to Drive. I get it somewhere where I can drive with steady load for a while. I fire it up and drive it. No idling for the first 100 miles at least. I take it for a 20 minute spin and check it over. Its now a "Ready Teddy", lets hit the track.

[Mike P]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that out @bmorgil! I really appreciate it! My overhaul of this motor just consisted of crosshatching the slightly worn original bore cylinders and adding standard pistons and hand gapped rings as it had none. Cam and crank are all original. I just put rods (and rod bearings) in as it had none.

It probably will be a while before the MB is actually ready for the road so I guess I’ll limit the run time for now. I would like to get some water in it and make sure that is all ok.

I’ve seen professional engine rebuilders run stuff of stands to break them in? Is that not a common practice?

[bmorgil]

Usually a custom engine that is run on a stand isn't being broken in. The purpose for a good test stand is exactly what you are doing. Just to make sure it starts and has no major problems.

It doesn't hurt to fire them up with new rings on a test stand for a short period. Just no idling. There needs to be water in the water jacket to help transfer the heat out of the cylinder and off of the new rings. You don't want to run it with no load for a long time. 30 minutes wont hurt anything as long as it doesn't idle. If the cam is new or you are unsure if you got the lifters back on the same lobes, the motor needs to stay above 2000 RPM for a good 20 minutes. It is important on a new flat tappet cam to keep the oil splash up. The cam lobes can wear flat very fast if you don't.

You wont find a "high end" motor that hasn't at least been broken in on a Dyno. There is too much money spent to take any chances. If they are competing, a properly "broke" in motor will definitely outperform one that is not. A new car has usually had the break in performed during production without starting it. Most of the time on a "spin" stand with a bunch of instruments, a pressure load and external motor to spin it. The engine usually isn't started till the end of the line.

[Mike P]

Usually a custom engine that is run on a stand isn't being broken in. The purpose for a good test stand is exactly what you are doing. Just to make sure it starts and has no major problems.

It doesn't hurt to fire them up with new rings on a test stand for a short period. Just no idling. There needs to be water in the water jacket to help transfer the heat out of the cylinder and off of the new rings. You don't want to run it with no load for a long time. 30 minutes wont hurt anything as long as it doesn't idle. If the cam is new or you are unsure if you got the lifters back on the same lobes, the motor needs to stay above 2000 RPM for a good 20 minutes. It is important on a new flat tappet cam to keep the oil splash up. The cam lobes can wear flat very fast if you don't.

You wont find a "high end" motor that hasn't at least been broken in on a Dyno. There is too much money spent to take any chances. If they are competing, a properly "broke" in motor will definitely outperform one that is not. A new car has usually had the break in performed during production without starting it. Most of the time on a "spin" stand with a bunch of instruments, a pressure load and external motor to spin it. The engine usually isn't started till the end of the line.

Great info! And I actually wondered about engines in new cars. Having never had a brand new car myself I always wondered if the buyers were warned of a break-in period on the engines!

[Mike P]

Well, I just dropped my radiator off at the shop to get cleaned out. She was not flowing as well as she should! I should have done that from the beginning as I don’t think I’ve ever had an automotive project where I didn’t have to do something with a radiator cleaning or re-core…oh well!

[bmorgil]

If that's the original radiator Mike, guard it with your life. They seem to be made of gold!

[LarrBeard]

"They seem to be made of gold!

Non-obtainium as Ira found out ...

[Mike P]

It is the original! I know it was tough dropping it off but these guys have been doing stuff for me for the last 25 years or so so fingers crossed!

[gmwillys]

Good radiator shops are becoming hard to come by. The old guys have retired out, and they are not being replaced. Radiator shops and chrome plating shops are disappearing quickly.

[Mike P]

Good radiator shops are becoming hard to come by. The old guys have retired out, and they are not being replaced. Radiator shops and chrome plating shops are disappearing quickly.

Yup and starter/generator shops as well. It’s a real shame!

[Mike P]

Holy smokes! I just heard back from the radiator shop and they want $700 to re-core! Damn!

[bmorgil]

Whoa.... $600 brand new with a Brass Copper core from KW.

[Mike P]

Whoa.... $600 brand new with a Brass Copper core from KW.

Yeah I saw that...decisions, decisions...

I guess all that money I saved on tires will have to go somewhere else!

[Mike P]

It just dawned on me that I made that comment about tires but I looked back and never posted the deal of the century?! I peruse Marketplace regularly and got this set of 4 brand new (mounted but never run) Firestone 6.00-16 NDTs for $250!

[gmwillys]

I will agree with you on that aspect. Definitely a deal of a lifetime.

[bmorgil]

I have a set of those on peeJ. I love them. A crowd pleaser at the shows and parade. They are a nice riding tire and quiet. Of course we are talking at the 45 MPH top speed, I cant hear anything and both hands are on the wheel.

[Mike P]

Got my radiator back. Woohoo! (I told them not to paint it as I’d do it myself. I’m kind of particular…)

[LarrBeard]

That looks really nice. Hindsight is 20/20 and I wish I had recored my radiator when we restored the '48- but $$$ and time seemed more important at the instant.

[bmorgil]

Nice! They sure had a nice size radiator in them.

[Mike P]

That looks really nice. Hindsight is 20/20 and I wish I had recored my radiator when we restored the '48- but $$$ and time seemed more important at the instant.

Yes I’m glad I just bit the bullet. You can’t take it with you right, ha!


Nice! They sure had a nice size radiator in them.

I agree! Seems like it should keep that little banger cool! I tested and put the original 160 degree thermostat back in it after reading the discussions on the new ones. Hopefully I can run it up to temp this weekend and get those new rings seated!

[bmorgil]

I am sure you will have no trouble keeping it cool. Load those rings for about 20 minutes and your ready for business!

[LarrBeard]

BMorgil and I did a science project a couple of years ago looking at vintage vs. modern thermostats. The project involved the wife’s oven thermometer, cook pans and stove top.

“Are you done making a mess in my kitchen?”; was said more than once.

In summary, vintage thermostats and modern ‘full flow’ thermostats are fully open at their rated temperature; many modern ones are just starting to open up at that point.

What that translates to in practice – at least on the ’48 – was that there would be a significant temperature overshoot at warm-up until the thermostat got fully open. I don’t like transient overshoots, I like stability. You were never sure if the ‘stat had stuck or it was just the normal overshoot. Mine did stick one day, and the truck puked about half the coolant all over the engine bay. I still find residue from that until this day.

The Milodon Full Flow thermostats just bring the temperature smoothly to 160 and stay there – no stress and no worry on the operator and probably less stress on the cast iron engine parts. Every time that temperature needle swings up to 160 and just settles there, I say “Thank you Bob”.

[bmorgil]

That whole "thing" started with your coffee cup holding open my hood in the parade Larry! I think we found out three things for sure.

The vintage thermostats are old and failed your "Kitchin' Test".
The modern pellet style thermostats were unpredictable in when and how far they opened.
The Milodon's are predictable, accurate, expensive and hard to come by.

Did we win that battle?

[LarrBeard]

A. We got thrown out of the kitchen, and:

B. We found good thermostats.

*I'd call that a win for sure!*

[gmwillys]

Kicked out of the kitchen.... My Grandmother never knew what she would find tore apart by my Grandpa, on the kitchen table or in the sink. It was usually the chainsaw upon last Sunday's paper, or a tire tube in the sink, and the vulcanizing kit laid out ready to patch a hole. She used to cuss him, but the mess was cleaned up by supper time. After he retired and they moved out to the farm, she made sure that he had enough shop space and machine shed that he no longer had to drag stuff through the door of the new house.

A pot and a thermometer for the sake of science, and saving the Willys engine, is a small price of scorn spent.

[bmorgil]

I can picture your Grandfather at that sink gm! Those were the days. I think inside our significant others know how much value is provided by someone who can do it themselves, even if it costs a little sanity.

[Mike P]

I did the old stovetop test before replacing my puck style new stat with this old flap style. Started opening at 160 and fully open at 180.

With everything back together I did my 20 minute break in run last night and all seems good! I have a little oil leak at the fuel pump mount. I installed the gasket dry on that in case I had to pull it back off when I run the actual fuel lines as that is such a tight area. Also seems to not want to restart easily when hot but baby steps I guess? At least it runs, ha!

[bmorgil]

You have to love the need to test. Somehow, someway, no matter the potential banning from the kitchen.

If you have the Heat Riser operational under the carb, make sure it is fully open when the engine is warm. Heat soak from the "Stove Valve" under the carb is a common hard start when warm issue. If you are going to run the valve, it needs to operate freely and open quickly when the manifold begins to heat up.

Take a peek into the carb when its hot and has been sitting. Check the accelerator pump shot for fuel. If there isn't a good shot of fuel, the bowl could be empty for a few reasons. It could have boiled the fuel out from heat soak or, the fuel could be leaking out into the manifold.

[Mike P]

You have to love the need to test. Somehow, someway, no matter the potential banning from the kitchen.

If you have the Heat Riser operational under the carb, make sure it is fully open when the engine is warm. Heat soak from the "Stove Valve" under the carb is a common hard start when warm issue. If you are going to run the valve, it needs to operate freely and open quickly when the manifold begins to heat up.

Take a peek into the carb when its hot and has been sitting. Check the accelerator pump shot for fuel. If there isn't a good shot of fuel, the bowl could be empty for a few reasons. It could have boiled the fuel out from heat soak or, the fuel could be leaking out into the manifold.

Thanks for that. The heat riser is operational. I think I may have fixed the hot start issue today. I had been having intermittent weak spark problems and kept cleaning the original points instead of replacing them as we all know how new electrical parts seem to be…Anyway, I had purchased a new set of points and condenser when I got the new cap and rotor a month is so ago. Today I but the bullet and slapped the new ones on and we seem to be good! So now all that’s left is…everything else, ha!

[Mike P]

Here’s an interesting tidbit (to me anyway, ha!) A month or so ago I was at our local swap meet and was introduced to a local gentleman who “is the guy to talk to about WW2 Jeeps.” Turns out he has a couple GPWs and even a GP and a coupe half tracks!

Anyway, to make a short story long, I was asking him about my Jeep and he recommended a couple of books for me to get that would fill in a lot of the gaps in the knowledge I had about my little MB/GPW mash up. As it turns out it may not be a mashup at all but an ACM2 Jeep which has features of both the Ford and Willys Jeeps. Which is kinda neat? Going by the SN dates this could very well be the body that came with my ‘45 chassis. Pretty cool!

[bmorgil]

Good news Mike!

[gmwillys]

Learning comes when you least expect it, when you're not looking.

[Mike P]

Learning comes when you least expect it, when you're not looking.

Thanks guys! And yes, never too old to learn something!

[Mike P]

Not too much happening with the MB though I did contact a guy in the Netherlands that makes reproduction data plates that are suppose to be the best ones to get (according to the G503 site.) I gave him my chassis and tub numbers and he was able to pinpoint my jeep’s DOD as April 20, 1945. How cool is that? He sent a picture of a jeep’s original data plate that was just 3 numbers after mine for production that day! Anyway, I ordered a full set of data/shipping plates and associated hardware because that’s the kind of stuff I nerd out on...:o.

Of course I’ll post some pics when they arrive.

[Mike P]

Oh also, got the little motor run in a few weeks ago but forgot to post this vid. This is after I put the new points/ condenser in and it even starts hot now. Here is a start from being completely stone cold…

https://youtube.com/shorts/GhMxu_BfoFo?feature=share

[bmorgil]

Just awesome Mike! You are really coming up with the stuff that makes this so much fun. To have all the history you can get is a great part of this. I love your test stand. I have one of those dwell tachs! That stuff is getting hard to find.

[Mike P]

Just awesome Mike! You are really coming up with the stuff that makes this so much fun. To have all the history you can get is a great part of this. I love your test stand. I have one of those dwell tachs! That stuff is getting hard to find.

Thanks man! I’m having fun with this little car! The test stand is fun! I’ve had that dwell/tach meter for a really long time, ha! I used Velcro to attach it so it can still be used elsewhere easily if needed.

Not a lot of news though I did take a gamble on a crusty set of original window latches off eBay and even found some olive drab in the underside after bead blasting them! They were listed as CJ2A in the ad so that was a nice surprise.

Also my data plates arrived on Saturday so of course I had to run right out and install them! They are a really nice product! It’s hard to believe that there were 7 different versions of the tags during the short MB run. This guy offers all of them so you get what was original to the Jeep!

Pics later as I have an appointment with the chiropractor in a minute!

[Mike P]

Some pics…

[gmwillys]

Looking great Mike! The windshield latches were a good find, and came out nice.

[Mike P]

Looking great Mike! The windshield latches were a good find, and came out nice.

Thank you sir!

I got a little bit done this weekend and finally mounted the new “gum dipped” NDTs at all four corners! I’ve got an old Coats 10/10 tire machine but man it was a struggle to get those old dry ‘60s tires off the wheels…PHEW!

[bmorgil]

Oh man I wish I had an old Coats machine! They look the part now.

[Mike P]

Oh man I wish I had an old Coats machine! They look the part now.

It’s pretty handy! I have an old Sun Service Equipment spin balancer too mostly because I love old Sun stuff!

[Mike P]

Small update as I’m on vacation this week and trying to cross many things off the list around the farmette. One of which being to get this stuck F head out of the chassis so I can get the chassis cleaned up!

[bmorgil]

Just totally cool pictures Mike! I absolutely love the look of a motor being pulled in the barn by a 3 point on the back of a farm tractor. That is the way I remember it!

Another great shot inside the bell. What the heck man, it looks like the motor was pumping tar into it!

[Mike P]

Just totally cool pictures Mike! I absolutely love the look of a motor being pulled in the barn by a 3 point on the back of a farm tractor. That is the way I remember it!

Another great shot inside the bell. What the heck man, it looks like the motor was pumping tar into it!

Thanks man! I thought it appropriate as well, ha!

Yeah that bell is a mess! A couple of aged mouse nests plus probably some of the MMO I put in the trans that leaked out, ha! There was also a crusty old cold chisel in there! What in heck?!!:eek:

[gmwillys]

The chisel maybe a mystery of the universe that may never be solved..... Or someone was trying to un-stick the engine?

[bmorgil]

Can you imagine.... you get all done stuffing things back together and until the end of time, what did I do with that chisel?

[Mike P]

The chisel maybe a mystery of the universe that may never be solved..... Or someone was trying to un-stick the engine?

The throw out bearing is frozen solid so you may be onto something, ha!


Can you imagine.... you get all done stuffing things back together and until the end of time, what did I do with that chisel?

Haha! Exactly!

[LarrBeard]

That works ...

[56willys]

You can't go wrong with a free tool. I wonder how many 10 mm sockets will be in the cylinders...

[bmorgil]

Well hopefully the sockets left in the engine will be English! There isn't much you cant do to a Go-Devil if you have a 1/2 inch socket and a 9/16.

[Mike P]

Question time! This little Jeep has (what looks to be from backing plates anyway) some later self adjusting brakes on it? Does anyone recognize them????

[56willys]

Not 100% sure, just thinking outside the box. Could they have been swapped for 10 or 11 inch brakes? Maybe from a jeepster.

[Mike P]

Not 100% sure, just thinking outside the box. Could they have been swapped for 10 or 11 inch brakes? Maybe from a jeepster.

I am open to suggestions! The drums appear to be wartime (based on my limited knowledge!) And I’m just basing that on the fact that the port side has left hand lugs!

[bmorgil]

Pull off a brake drum and lets see whats under there Mike. Definitely not a GPW backing plate.

[Mike P]

Pull off a brake drum and lets see whats under there Mike. Definitely not a GPW backing plate.

Maybe this weekend if I finish my chores I’ll pop one off. Really don’t need to know just yet. Just wanted to put it out there in the universe, ha!

[Mike P]

I started adding some basic electricity to the “motor pool” barn where the Jeep is parked so I can work out here and actually be able to see, ha! I have these old green porcelain lights I’ve hoarded for years. I’ve got one more to put over the workbench area.

[Mike P]

Damn sideways pics!!!

[bmorgil]

Those lights are so nostalgic! I remember those big fixtures from when I was very young hanging around the shops and factories. They look perfect in the barn.

[gmwillys]

I'm digging the lights. Very appropriate for the motor pool.

[gmwillys]

As far as the brake conundrum, it looks to me like International Scout brakes.

As an example;

https://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/RP-BRK-BP-225-PR.html

[Mike P]

Those lights are so nostalgic! I remember those big fixtures from when I was very young hanging around the shops and factories. They look perfect in the barn.


I'm digging the lights. Very appropriate for the motor pool.

Thanks fellas! I really like the look too! Added one more over the workbench and moved some stuff around this weekend. It’s pretty good light for 3 100W LEDs! (I wish the pics would post more clearly! I’m a picture nerd!)


As far as the brake conundrum, it looks to me like International Scout brakes.

As an example;

https://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/RP-BRK-BP-225-PR.html

Oh that’s interesting? I just assumed they were from a later Jeep vehicle? Guess I’ll have to expand my search a bit, ha!

[bmorgil]

Mike, all Dana axles were marked with a Bill of Material and a serial number. They can be very, very difficult to find on a heavily rusted axle but, they are always there. Sometimes forensic techniques are needed to see them. They were stamped in by hand on the assembly line. I have used varying ways to uncover them. Most people give up too early. The numbers are always there and always very hard to see. A thorough cleaning and carefully polishing of the area where the numbers should be usually reveals the indentations. If you are successful in finding the numbers, I can tell you what parts were used to build the entire assembly, when it was built and for what customer.

[gmwillys]

Dr. Dana has the answers for sure!

The nylon abrasive brushes from Horrible Freight that I brag on constantly will clean up the surface of the axle tube without disturbing the metal displaced by the stamping of the BOM and serial numbers.

[LarrBeard]

With a shop that nostalgic - you need a Bull of the Woods calendar...

[bmorgil]

The nylon abrasive brushes from Horrible Freight that I brag on constantly will clean up the surface of the axle tube without disturbing the metal displaced by the stamping of the BOM and serial numbers.

Awesome suggestion gm! I have not tried those. I think they would be perfect. As you search for the numbers, keep in mind they are about an 1/8" high.

[Mike P]

Mike, all Dana axles were marked with a Bill of Material and a serial number. They can be very, very difficult to find on a heavily rusted axle but, they are always there. Sometimes forensic techniques are needed to see them. They were stamped in by hand on the assembly line. I have used varying ways to uncover them. Most people give up too early. The numbers are always there and always very hard to see. A thorough cleaning and carefully polishing of the area where the numbers should be usually reveals the indentations. If you are successful in finding the numbers, I can tell you what parts were used to build the entire assembly, when it was built and for what customer.

Wow! Great info for sure! I will do some digging. I am certain at least my front axle is war time given the fact that it has the bell crank attached. The rear looks original to the Jeep as well as near as I can tell so far.


Dr. Dana has the answers for sure!

The nylon abrasive brushes from Horrible Freight that I brag on constantly will clean up the surface of the axle tube without disturbing the metal displaced by the stamping of the BOM and serial numbers.

I’ll look into those. Thanks!


With a shop that nostalgic - you need a Bull of the Woods calendar...

I had to look up what that was and yes I think you’re right!


Awesome suggestion gm! I have not tried those. I think they would be perfect. As you search for the numbers, keep in mind they are about an 1/8" high.

Got it. Thanks!

[Mike P]

Forgot the pic!

[bmorgil]

Still has the original brake line holding straps on it! An old one for sure. I bet that axle has been bolted in since 1944.

[Mike P]

Not a lot happening. Getting a few parts here and there. Sweet Chee made the KW catalog though so that’s pretty cool!

[bmorgil]

Nice! Great shot in the catalog. You gotta love that!

[gmwillys]

Good deal on the photo in the catalog. I just put in for my copy, so I'll see it and all the new stuff soon.

[Mike P]

Thanks guys! The new catalog is a good read!

I picked up another (2A) windshield yesterday just ‘cause that stuff doesn’t really show up around here all that often! It’s in pretty decent shape and has all the pesky brackets I struggled with earlier in the thread, ha!

Then the seller took me to see this his boss had for sale a few miles away. Lots of good parts and some not so good. I’d love to save them all but I resisted the temptation (so far anyway…;)

[Mike P]

Dangit! The occasional curse of the sideways pic!

[gmwillys]

That windshield looks really good! Great find!

I do not need another project either, but still can't resist looking through marketplace for anything cheap and desirable. I'm a through and through Willys guy, but if I found a great deal on a first-generation International Scout 80, I'd have to find room at the rust ranch. One came up local here a couple months ago, but it was a typo at $800. It was back up the next day for $4,000, to which it was too far gone for that.

[bmorgil]

Man an old Scout is a find gm!

Nice parts source there Mike. You can always go back now that you know where some parts are.

I cannot beat the sideways pic phenomenon. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[Mike P]

That windshield looks really good! Great find!

I do not need another project either, but still can't resist looking through marketplace for anything cheap and desirable. I'm a through and through Willys guy, but if I found a great deal on a first-generation International Scout 80, I'd have to find room at the rust ranch. One came up local here a couple months ago, but it was a typo at $800. It was back up the next day for $4,000, to which it was too far gone for that.

Yeah it’s in pretty good shape! Has some door/top brackets attached so that may come in handy later as I do have some door frames.
I hear yah on the other projects. I am always looking even though I’ve enough already to get me through my golden years, ha! That said, I may or may not have purchased a ‘66 Land Rover 2A that I’ve been lusting after since I first saw it almost 30 years ago!


Man an old Scout is a find gm!

Nice parts source there Mike. You can always go back now that you know where some parts are.

I cannot beat the sideways pic phenomenon. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Yeah it is definitely worth saving and quite tempting!

[Mike P]

I made a little bit of progress over the last couple weekends and filled the 2A hole that someone had hacked into the side of poor Sweet Chee! Got the pioneer tools installed and I’m pretty happy with the result!

I dropped my original fuel tank off at the shop last week to get cleaned out and patched up (and probably lined) so that’s ready to go if I ever get this thing closer to moving under her own power!

[56willys]

Nice work with that fuel filler. Looks great!

I always thought the old rovers were neat, you'll have to do a comparison. And see if American is better than British 4x4s.

[gmwillys]

That would be a great comparison for sure. The pioneer tools look good in their home.

[bmorgil]

It is coming back for sure Mike! Your work looks great. I would like to see that tank when it comes back. I bet it looks good.

[Mike P]

I got the old original tank back from the radiator shop. They removed some broken sending unit screws for me and cut off the 2A fuel filler and patched the area. They also cleaned all the varnish and rust out of the tank and lined it with Red Cote. They also ended up coating the outside of the bottom of the tank. I told them to try to keep it below in the sump area if they could. I cleaned up the rest of the outside of the tank and hit it with some Ospho and Scotchbrite to combat the surface rust. I probably won’t paint the tank as I’ve had good luck with the Ospho surface staying rust free in the past. I know the “patina” look is not for everyone but I really enjoy seeing the layers of history in a vehicle and besides there are plenty of restored jeeps out there! This one will see farm duty!

[Mike P]

I also ordered a bunch of stuff the other day. Brake line and fuel line kits. Tank straps. I’d like to have it driving by the fall but we’ll see how it goes!

[gmwillys]

Looking good! With this progress, there isn't any reason that you wouldn't be out and about by fall.

[bmorgil]

The tank looks great Mike! I was wondering how your shop would do. The patina is just right for your project. Don't forget there's rubber cushions under the tank.

[Mike P]

Thanks gents! And yes, I ordered the felt strip kits and the rubber seals as well. TBH until I watched a G503 tank install video I had no idea there were rubber seals too! Thank goodness for the internet, ha!

[LarrBeard]

know the “patina” look is not for everyone but I really enjoy seeing the layers of history in a vehicle ...

You might come close, but GMWillys' "Heep" is the standard for patina.

[Mike P]

You might come close, but GMWillys' "Heep" is the standard for patina.

Ha! Now I’m intrigued! Where do I find pics of this “Heep” ?????

[bmorgil]

Here's his Album https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/album.php?u=3486
(https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/album.php?u=3486)
Here's his post on the "Heep" https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?1790-46-CJ2A-Parts-Runner/page15

I think his "Heep" is completely void of any paint whatsoever! It is plain steel, like a Delorian. gm will get a picture of it in here soon. There are some shots of it somewhere.

[56willys]

Oh, Bmorgil, you got me thinking with that DeLorean reference.

A willys with gull-wing doors!!! The only problem is getting it to 88 mph!

[bmorgil]

In gm's "DeLorean Willys" you only need to sit in it to go back in time!

[Mike P]

In gm's "DeLorean Willys" you only need to sit in it to go back in time!

Thanks for the link! That thing is great!

[gmwillys]

"DeLorean Willys" Ha ha ha, 44 mph instead of 88 mph for time travel... Thank you all for the kind words.

[LarrBeard]

I liked the picture with the Christmas lights and "Alabama snow" on the windshield. It was an inspiration!

[gmwillys]

To this day, there is still residue from the "snow" stuck on the wipers.

[Mike P]

I have been plugging away (pun intended) and filling little holes that were cut here and there and also buying copious amounts of parts from various sources! I mounted new brackets for the fuel tank and got it installed as well and then had to cut the aftermarket seat apart to make some adjustments to get it all to work together. Slowly but surely making progress!

The big news is yesterday was was Sweet Chee’s 79th birthday! Hoot toot!

*I threw in a sideways pic for consistency! ;)

[bmorgil]

Nice work Mike! It is coming along really well. I love the 79 year old part. I like to think these old Jeeps are here to remind us from where we came.

The oil can is priceless. I have a couple of those around. All copper. They remind me of the Wizard Of OZ.

Evey time I see a vintage Jeep fuel cell in its well thought out location..., I have to think of the picture I think gmwillys shared of a soldier, cigar in mouth, sitting on that fuel cell! I guess when the bullets are flyin', a good cigar is still the finest thing.

[gmwillys]

Looking great Mike!

Willie and Joe, characters from Bill Mauldin's Army. He has several Jeep themed cartoons.

http://www.ewillys.com/2009/03/31/bill-maudlins-willys-cartoons/

[Mike P]

Those cartoons are great!

[gmwillys]

Canadian Army had their own cartoonist, to include some Jeeps;

https://www.cmpa-apmc.org/lb-herbie-vs-the-military-police.html

[bmorgil]

Hahahah! Great stuff gm. I love it, "Don't be a Herbie"!

[gmwillys]

Don't be a Herbie is right up there with "there is a village somewhere deprived of an idiot" borrowed from the English.

[Mike P]

I’ve been picking away at running the new brake lines and am just about finished. These brakes appear to be 11” rather than the standard 9”(?) for MB’s/ GPWs. I’m going to need a couple wheel cylinders for sure. Can anyone I.D. These things positively for me?

*edit* I tried to post this earlier and it glitched on me! In the meantime I ended up taking the left rear apart as the cylinder was frozen solid. (They all seem to be…)

Anyway I have a part number now but when I ask Dr. Google I get all types of different hits. Hoping y’all can tell me what I’ve got so I can get the right stuff! Thanks!

[Mike P]

I forgot a pic. 1-1/8” bore on the rears.

[bmorgil]

I am pretty sure that's a Wagner casting number on there. You may want to drop them a line and see if they can cross the FD-18282 to a finished part and application. I am seeing star wheel adjusters and other things that make me think 1960's era brakes.

[Mike P]

I am pretty sure that's a Wagner casting number on there. You may want to drop them a line and see if they can cross the FD-18282 to a finished part and application. I am seeing star wheel adjusters and other things that make me think 1960's era brakes.

Good eye! I forgot to post a pic of the other side that says Wagner Lockheed! That’s a good idea. I didn’t think about contacting them directly. Hoping my local NAPA has an old book (though they’ve probably thrown them all away by now…:()

[TJones]

MikeP they look the same as what I put on my 52CJ when I put 11” brakes on it and they came off a “46-64 pickup”!!


11684

[bmorgil]

Just remember the number "cast" on the part is the "Casting Number". This casting could and probably did make several different parts when machined or "finished". Sometimes the actual part number of the part is very close to the casting number, sometimes it isn't.

[Mike P]

Thanks guys for the replies! I ended up stopping by Napa and they were able to cross ref and it came up as ‘75 CJ5 front left (among others.) It matched physically so I took it home one bolted it on.

Took apart a front brake to find those cylinders are 15/16” bore? I always thought you were suppose to have the bigger cylinders on the front???

Anyway, I’m going to see if Napa has the “front” ones today and I will report back! It looks like I can swap them end for end as the only thing different is the bore sizes?

Fun stuff!

[Mike P]

The brakes kept me busy a few hours at a time over the last week but we are just about sorted. Looking at the specs for the MBs/GPWs I found the original front cylinders for the 9” brakes were 1” and the rears were 7/8” (later changed to 3/4”) so I put the big ones up front and the smaller ones in the back (opposite of how I found it.) I had to redo my little squiggly brake lines up front as they needed the longer nuts for the wheel cylinder side.

Speaking of nuts, some folks should not be allowed to use tools?!!!

All the nuts were mangled like this!

[bmorgil]

That person was not using tools! You are getting those brakes sorted out now Mike.

[gmwillys]

Agreed. Some folks should just let someone else do the work.

[Mike P]

I haven’t updated this thread in a minute but I’ve been working diligently! I got the brakes all sorted and the wheel bearings repacked (had to replace one bad race/bearing) plus all new hub seals of course. I replaced the pinion seals on the front and rear ends as they were leaking horribly. I re-gasketed and filled the trans and transfer cases. I had to put a speedy sleeve on the rear yolk as it was a little pitted.

I ran the new fuel lines and exhaust. I had to fabricate a couple of new mounts for the muffler area on the tub. Oh and I also finally fixed where bubba cut the flange off the cowl to fit the previous f-head as it is right where the rad support rod attaches.

[Mike P]

I also rebuilt the parking brake as it had a busted return spring. It seemed to work but I knew it would ring and drive me nuts if I left it. I had a heck of a time with that yolk. It was really stuck to the shaft so much I had to make a little puller to get it removed!

[Mike P]

The biggest news though is that with the help of my lovely assistant (wife!) we braved the 95 degree heat this last weekend and dragged the Jeep down to the lower shop with the old 8N to get the engine plopped in her! And of course I forgot to take forum friendly landscape mode pics because I’m an idiot!

[gmwillys]

Awesome progress Mike. Don't fret the photo direction. It happens to us all from time to time. The parking brake is a bugger, but when it is all adjusted just right, you'll wouldn't want to live without it. Mine holds tight even on the side of a mountain trail ride, and it has helped me get out of a jam or two.

[bmorgil]

I am with gm all the way! That baby is coming along fantastic. The parking brake works amazingly well when you get it all set up as gm said. Mine will really hold tight. Forget to raise that anchor, and even in low that E-brake will drag the motor right down. I had a picture issue just the other day. Forgot to take it in landscape... I just love the 8N motor drops, they way its was done man!

[LarrBeard]

You have a body, a motor and a place to sit. Who needs fenders, a hood, grill and whatever else? Take it for a ride as is!

You will get waves and hollers!

[bmorgil]

That last picture, with my favorite light hanging from the ceiling, needs to go in the photo contest. Great shot!

[Mike P]

Thanks guys! I spent the rest of Saturday afternoon and into the night throwing more stuff at it!


You have a body, a motor and a place to sit. Who needs fenders, a hood, grill and whatever else? Take it for a ride as is!

You will get waves and hollers!
Funny you should say that…

(Hopefully this works!)

https://youtube.com/shorts/biAqwDbFN00?si=WCTAnEDTPN8NtAv6

[bmorgil]

That's just fantastic! Runnin' like a sewing machine!

[Mike P]

Yeah man I was pretty jazzed! Runs down the road pretty good for just having a baseline tune on it! Here’s an in car.

https://youtu.be/Hf1YY5AE-B8?si=21EjytqVGCF8plgj

We took it down the road but my wife forgot to record, ha! My hat flew off so we had to go back and get it and took a loop around the house.

[bmorgil]

You are definitely enjoying that purchase! Loosing your hat in your Jeep is a rite of passage.

[gmwillys]

Great videos! You have her dialed in perfect MP. I absolutely agree with Bmorgil on the loss of a hat. I went into town a few weeks back and had the windshield down. I made it about 500 ft from the ranch and off went the hat. Being that it was in a mossy oak pattern, it belongs to the armadillos now.

[LarrBeard]

YES! Way to go.

[bmorgil]

I love that classic sound the clutch makes when you shifted to second! Almost as sweet as the lifters quietly ticking away. I just love making the shifts and listening to it all. You are right on top of everything with nothing to block the sound. You don't get to experience that very often. You can hear everything working.

[Mike P]

Haha! I need a chinstrap for my hat!! I lose it when I drive my Model A roadster too, ha! I should have worn my army helmet though it’s a little big!

Man, what a fun little buggy. And you’re right bmorgil, the sounds are like music!

I forgot to add that I put new shocks all the way around and did the smart thing for once in my life and bought a beautiful original style cloth covered wiring kit that has amazing color coded drawings from which to work. I’ve done most of the chassis wiring and under dash stuff though I’m just running a hot wire to the coil at this point as I need to get an ignition switch and some other things.

[gmwillys]

There is not many drivetrains that create a more beautiful note than a Willys 134, outside of a Merlin V12 or Pratt and Whitney radial airplane engine at speed.

The reproduction wiring harnesses are extremely nice. I didn't purchase one for the Heep, but if I need to re-do mine in the future, I will sure go that route. I had a neighbor that worked at a coal fired power plant, and he brought me a large spool of six wire loomed wiring harness. Each wire is wrapped with Nomex color keyed cloth, so it's fire resistant. I had used the majority of the wire for race and derby cars, where fire and high heat is always a possibility. I used the remainder of the hoard for the Willys. After twelve years of service, the wire is holding up well, especially when using 3M solderless heat shrink connectors.

[LarrBeard]

I don't notice it too much when I'm just going down the road, but when I get the '48 alongside a concrete barrier or divider, I notice that that little F-134 with a stock Willys muffler does make an impressive snarly sound I don't expect from that little engine.

[gmwillys]

It's true that the 134 is no slouch in the angry tone department, especially with a well burned-out glass pack. The 255 c.i. four cylinder in the Wrangler follows the same blood line and produces descent power at mid RPM. I picked up a Flow Master free flowing muffler to replace the tin can that's one there now. Hopefully it won't get too annoying with a drone at speed.

[56willys]

I love the look of having the old cloth wiring, sometimes makes me wish i had kept 6 volt, but the 12 is nice for having accessories. So that noise when you disengage the clutch is normal. I just started picking it up among the other noises and was wondering if it was a problem. I still need to get used to old gears and nothing to block the noise!

I just put a supertrap on Flossy, which makes it sound pretty cool. I'll have to get some video of it to post. Its unique!

Mike, you project is coming along superbly, running through the yard is only a short step away from cruising it down the road!!

[gmwillys]

'56, if you are getting a bit of noise with the clutch pushed in, then your throw out sealed bearing is going dry. When you tear into the rear main seal, add that to your list of items to tackle, since you'll be there anyway.

[Mike P]

The little Go Devil is running great! I took it up and down the road a few times Sunday as we had some unseasonably nice weather! It’s running in the 180 degree range which I guess is ok given there’s no grille or anything directing all the air through the radiator?

Here some of the wiring so far. I think I’ve finally decided to just keep it 6V as I have new 6V battery and I recently got an original voltage regulator. I don’t have the charging system hooked up yet. Still researching about “B” circuits and stuff. I did a quick test of output on my generator and it’s doing something? But not sure what. My good meter is at work and I’m home with Covid…