Newbie - Is it a 42, 46, or 53?!?!

[slimjim_buffalo]

Hello,
First, I want to say thank you for all the help I am going to receive from this community, and for all the knowledge buried in the achieves of posts on this site.

I purchased a Willys in fairly good condition and I'm starting my restoration journey. I started scrapping off engine tags and I realized I do not know what model I really have.


Titled as 1953 and it has a CJ3A Windshield

S/N plate on the firewall shows CJ2A 58XXX (1946)

Engine Block plates show GPW 20744 (1942)

Distributor Cap: IGC 4705 6W (Autolite MFG Date 06/1942)

Generator Tag: GPW 6 7703369



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If the engine is a 1942 GPW, would the drivetrain also be? How can I tell if the body, suspension, and brakes are a CJ2A or CJ3A or neither? Where are there more clues or measurements I can take to determine what model parts I have if this is not the original engine?

My first project that I would like to finish before spring is upgrading the brakes with a front disc kit, but I'm not sure what model I have.

Thank you!

[bmorgil]

Welcome slim!

Take some pictures of the engine, front axle, rear axle, and engine casting numbers. Take some shots of the dash and body. It could be a reproduction body on a donor chassis. gmwillys has an eye for this, and amongst the members we might be able to sort it out.

It looks real nice!

[slimjim_buffalo]

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[slimjim_buffalo]

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I'm very curious about this the KF logo. I'm not finding anything with Google Lens.
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[slimjim_buffalo]

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[slimjim_buffalo]

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[slimjim_buffalo]

Thank you!
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[TJones]

Welcome slim!!
Like bmorgil said gm will chime in shortly, that’s a nice looking Jeep to start a restore with!!!

[slimjim_buffalo]

Awesome, thanks guys!

Engine casting bottom passenger side (scratched out/not matching)
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Serial Pad
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[bmorgil]

It has a GPW front and rear axle. That is a GPW engine. It looks like maybe a re-production body. I would say someone started with an older Military Jeep and put a newer model CJ body on it. It is a 2A style dashboard. That is a CJ3A style windshield. Lets see what some of the others think.

The dog clearly approves!

[51 CJ3]

I believe a military frame will have a machine gun mount under the bed.

[TJones]

Slim the machine gun mount will be right above the rear wheels, it's a heavy piece of channel iron mounted to the frame on top top side.

[slimjim_buffalo]

No machine gun mount plate on crossmember (red X on this diagram).
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However, there is a knob on top of the crossmember at that spot, and rewelded patch on the bed. This might be completely unrelated.
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What do you think? I appreciate all the input, this is getting fun.

[gmwillys]

Welcome Slimjim,

It looks like you have a conglomeration of Jeeps. With that being said, that isn't a bad thing at all. To put things into perspective, the following link is a history lesson on what happened through the ordnance remanufacturing process;

http://www.ewillys.com/category/ordnance-remanufactureing/

In short, the process of the ordnance remanufacture is to strip the Jeeps down to their sub assembly parts, inspect, then recondition as needed. After all of that, the parts are placed in a bin of like parts, then the parts are pulled to rebuild the next chassis in line. It is not uncommon to have a GPW engine with a Willys frame and a GPW body. Basically, the commonality of the part fitment lends itself to throwing the assorted parts into a big bag, then the parts are shaken up then grab the next part at random. Yours appears to be a GPW frame and engine, then the body tub is a newer CJ3A or so, reproduction tub, or a very clean original. The photo enclosed is of a M38A1 frame, but the machine gun mount is intact. The front axle looks like it might be Civilian. The determining factor is that the WWII military Jeeps, (MB/GPW) had the drag link run through a mount on the front axle rather than the Civilian Jeeps having the draglink mount to the frame cross member. The link below shows the GPW axle.

https://fordgpw.wordpress.com/2018/09/27/master-cylinder-and-brake-lines/

As far as the heater, I couldn't find anything on it either. More than likely, the heater came out of a truck and was installed in the Jeep. If I do find anything, I will report back with the findings.

[TJones]

I knew gm would jump in an enlighten us all on what was going on with your project!!!
Like Larrbeard has always said “don’t ever say never”:):)

[bmorgil]

Good catch on the steering mount gm, I missed that. The front axle is an early model 25. The cover is the GPW heavy cast style with the vent in the cover. It is either a very early 25 or a 25 with a GPW cover. The dashboard has the ignition switch on the passenger side. That could be a repro 3A tub or 2A tub since many MD Juan repo tubs have the 2A ignition holes on the 3A tubs. The tub looks like it is missing the top mounts. The repro tubs do not have them installed. Some more pictures slimjim, keep us up to date on your project!

[gmwillys]

It dawned on me this morning riding home. The heater is out of a Kaiser Frazier car, or possibly a dealer installed item that was installed through time. One may never know for sure.

[bmorgil]

Wow if that is out of a Kaiser-Frazer, it is a very rare part indeed. Neat story on that car. Very rare no doubt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser-Frazer

[gmwillys]

It could be in the realm of possibility that the heater could have been on a dealers shelf after Kaiser bought Willys. There isn't much Intel out there that I've found to where Kaiser Frazier dealers bringing on Willys, but I would think that they would have since Kaiser mainly wanted the Jeep brand.

[slimjim_buffalo]

It dawned on me this morning riding home. The heater is out of a Kaiser Frazier car, or possibly a dealer installed item that was installed through time. One may never know for sure.

Bingo, that is it. The KF was never the automotive logo, but a Frazer Farm Equipment dealer could have used that KF. Its the same font as in this dealer advertisement.

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[slimjim_buffalo]

Welcome Slimjim,

It looks like you have a conglomeration of Jeeps. With that being said, that isn't a bad thing at all. To put things into perspective, the following link is a history lesson on what happened through the ordnance remanufacturing process;

http://www.ewillys.com/category/ordnance-remanufactureing/

In short, the process of the ordnance remanufacture is to strip the Jeeps down to their sub assembly parts, inspect, then recondition as needed. After all of that, the parts are placed in a bin of like parts, then the parts are pulled to rebuild the next chassis in line. It is not uncommon to have a GPW engine with a Willys frame and a GPW body. Basically, the commonality of the part fitment lends itself to throwing the assorted parts into a big bag, then the parts are shaken up then grab the next part at random. Yours appears to be a GPW frame and engine, then the body tub is a newer CJ3A or so, reproduction tub, or a very clean original. The photo enclosed is of a M38A1 frame, but the machine gun mount is intact. The front axle looks like it might be Civilian. The determining factor is that the WWII military Jeeps, (MB/GPW) had the drag link run through a mount on the front axle rather than the Civilian Jeeps having the draglink mount to the frame cross member. The link below shows the GPW axle.

https://fordgpw.wordpress.com/2018/09/27/master-cylinder-and-brake-lines/

As far as the heater, I couldn't find anything on it either. More than likely, the heater came out of a truck and was installed in the Jeep. If I do find anything, I will report back with the findings.

Thank you GMWillys & bmorgil & TJones for all your help!!!! Especially on the history of military rebuilds, that is fascinating.

My take away is I have a:
GPW: motor
CJ2/3: Frame, steering, axels, and likely drivetrain
Aftermarket Driverside steering tie rod and reproduction Tub (maybe)

That sound right? I'm definitely going to take the time to remove, clean, and measure any parts before I place an order for a replacement. Thanks again for all your help!!!!

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[51 CJ3]

The left front motor mount on a CJ3A is different than the same mount on the CJ2A frame. Also the CJ2A frame should have a serial number tag or evidence of one on the frame in front of the left tire. Sometimes they get covered up if there was a snowplow, winch or the like installed. Mine has a reinforcement welded over that area. I assume it is there to support the PTO winch on it.

No telling how many combinations there are out there. My 1951 CJ3A has the CJ3A frame and windshield, 1946 CJ2A tub and an M38 hood. I have a reproduction tub for it but haven’t installed it.

I forgot about the CJ2A ACM(?) numbers on the left front gusset at the firewall and on the tailgate.

[slimjim_buffalo]

Yes, ok the motor mounts are evenly aligned so the frame is very likely a CJ2A.

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My passenger side glove box under the seat also matches a CJ2A. https://cj3a.info/cj3a/cj2acj3a.html

[51 CJ3]

I think one more way to differentiate an original tub from a reproduction may be the front wall of the toolbox. There should be a script “jeep” there. It is not 100% since toolboxes get replaced. The one in my CJ3A has been replaced. I haven’t looked into how different they are but my guess someone installed a CJ3A toolbox in the CJ2A tub. It doesn’t look like it fits correctly. It may just be a “Bubba” install.

[LarrBeard]

It never ceases to amaze me at the information this group turns up. It ranges from "trivia" like a KF trademark to solid "no shxt" tech data that just seems to be unavailable elsewhere.

[51 CJ3]

A picture of the toolbox front:
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I find the glovebox curious. I have 3 tubs to look at. A 46 and 47 CJ2A and a CJ3A Repli-tub. None have provisions for a glovebox. The Repli-tub isn’t overly accurate but the parts manual I have doesn’t list parts for one either. I think someone must have added it to yours or your replacement tub came from somewhere other than MD Juan.

[51 CJ3]

In this photo you can kind of make out a CJ2A tub number on the gusset next to the steering tube. It is my understanding they should not be on any other model. The CJ2A tailgate will have its own number on one end.

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While looking at this stuff, I have come to believe the tailgate on my frankenjeep is from an M38. There is a layer of OD green under the blue paint. It is a nice match to the hood.

[51 CJ3]

I just found a website that says the M38 had a glovebox.

[gmwillys]

The tool box/glove box under the passenger seat came about with the CJ2A, and continued on through the M38A1 and into the early CJ5s until 1971. The tool boxes were actually universal to all of the Jeeps, meaning that you can affix one from a 2A to a M38A1 and it will fit perfectly. The Jeep script was on all Civilian Jeeps, but not the military models. The military didn't want to advertise name plates on their vehicles. (Ford somehow got around this on the GPWs with a Ford script on the left rear of the tub). Replacement bodies will not be stamped Willys or Jeep unless they are licensed through Mopar/Chrysler/Fiat. You can get an MD Juan body with the stamps, but because of the license, it costs more by around $800.00. Enclosed are a couple of photos of an M38A1 tool box, and a replacement military front panel without the Jeep stamping.

[slimjim_buffalo]

Yes, I found both. Its hard to see through the rhino lining, but I can make out that same logo.
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I found a 5 digit tub number near the steering tube. It is within the +/- 1500 of my S/N so that tracks. (http://www.cj-2a.com/documentation/identification/serial_numbers/cj-2a_number_chart.pdf)
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So my frame, original tub, and Serial Number Data Patents Plate all match up as a CJ2A. The CJ3A windshield is a stand alone change.

[LarrBeard]

It's called vehicular archaeology - and old Jeeps are a rich resource field.

[Mike P]

What a nice looking Jeep…or Jeeps as the case may be! ;)