My first vehicle! 1956 CJ5

[56willys]

Hello, i have recently purchased my first project car. i found it in a local newspaper ad, and picked it up a couple months ago. it is a 1956 willys cj5, all stock drivetrain f4-134 hurricane, T90, Dana 18. I've already made some progress. When I got it the wiring was completely junk. Only one running light worked and it would turn on and off randomly and sparks came from the dash. It would also start and run with the key off so i'd have to disconnect the battery to kill the engine. So first i removed the dash and ripped out every wire then got a universal harness/fuse block. I have it installed and ignition wires done. There are also no brakes. Theres only drums in the rear and one of which has a 2 inch long cut in it from an angle grinder. Both are gouged to much to get resurfaced. Also missing wheel cylinders and the lining on the shoes is completly gone. The gas tank is missing, previous owner ziptied a plastic lawnmower tank to the ebrake cable on firewall. Only a few inches from the exhaust, nothing unsafe there. The body is extremely rusty, floors are gone. And the passenger side only has one body mount thats strong. Now on to the good stuff. The drivetrain is complete and runs amazingly. even in below freezing temps it only cranks for a second then fires and runs beautifully. The transmission shifts super smooth and the detents are still strong, feels like brand new. At first the oil was turning white and frothy. Theres no other signs of a blown headgasket. has good compresion and never smokes. It also had sat almost a year without being run before I got it. So I changed the oil, got a new filter and put in non detergent oil (it had reguler oil before.) and then drove it around the yard for over 2 hours and got it up to temperature. Probably the first time in many years it was run for more than a few minutes. Now everytime i run it the oil is still clean. I also got an original Jeep hardtop and doors from a 64 model. The top is in great shape, passenger door is good but drivers is missing glass and inner panel. My plan right now is to make everything mechanically reliable. I'll probably leave the body how it is for now, just patch the rust so it's safe. My goal is to have it at the Bantam Jeep Heritage Festival this June, then make it roadworthy for when I get my drivers license in a couple years. Any help and advice is greatly appreciated. I also have a YouTube channel @jacobnovosel so please go check that out to see videos of the jeep. Looking forward to many awesome adventure with my jeep. Thanks Jacob.

[bmorgil]

Welcome 56willys! That project looks pretty good. I think your being a little tough on the old girl! The engine compartment looks pretty neat and clean. It has the seat springs, which if you can restore them will save you some money. The top is always a big plus, they usually have a history of their own. I think you have some un-hacking to do and it will be a good runner.

Keep us updated with photos and ask away. This forum has plenty of helpful people.

[test1328]

Yes, welcome! Your jeep looks quite good, actually. If the engine and other main drivetrain components are operating well, it won't take you long to get her running just like you want. The hard top is an added bonus. Did it come with the jeep when you bought it or did you pick it up separately? It's pretty cool that it matches the color of your jeep. It will look good on it when you get it on.

[51 CJ3]

I agree. Looks like a good starting point.

[56willys]

Thank you all for the welcome! Yes the seat springs are good, I've already replaced some of the missing springs and will recover them in the future. The top came with it. The gentleman i bought it from got the 56 as a parts jeep for his 64 cj5 then realized it was to nice to cut up for parts. So he decided to sell it, and didn't need the top so i got it. I'm not sure but think to was original to the 64. And yes it will take some work but having a good drivetrain is awesome. i'm not going to restore it just make a fun driveable jeep that I take on trails and daily drive.

[bmorgil]

You have a great goal for your project. With a good power train you can drive it, enjoy it and fix up what you want as you go.

[56willys]

I got a winch mounted on the willys. It's a Warn M8000 Thats been sitting in the shop for years. My Dad got it with a TJ but that Jeep was wrecked years ago so then it was stored intill now. The engage/disengage lever was frozen. Would not turn to allow freespool. Was like this when we got it. So I tore apart the planatery gear system and found that the cylinder that slides back and forth was rusted solid. But with some work and penetrating oil it came lose. Regreased and new gaskets installed it works great. I'm guessing it got water in it and was never cleaned and also not used often. To mount the winch i used a universal flat plate on the frame rails. Then cutout the bumber for the fairlead. Because the fairlead hangs below the winch plate and the bumber is higher than the frame. I added 2 towhooks and used 3 hardened bolts on each side. I also mounted those vintage unity foglights. I got them with my new windsheild they were mounted on the top corners. I like them on the bumber better. And on the windsheild it could not be folded down.

[56willys]

Got this from Classic Military Vehicles located in Arkansas. One wire alternator and bracket specifically for L & F head motors. The alternator delivers 45 amps at 1800 RPM's, 63 amps at 2400 RPM's and 74 amps at 3500 RPM's. And has the 5/8" v belt pulley. The bracket is made in U.S.A. My original generator I think was okay but was 6 volt and my voltage regulater was bad. I 'm converting the jeep to twelve volt and wanted a one wire to make things easier. This looked like the best alt/bracket i could find and so far it's working great. I also got the fuse block from ebay for $30! 14 circuit every wire is a different color and is labeled. Even came with headlight plugs, zipties, and plastic snakeskin. There's not tons of wire but for a Jeep there's plenty. Would need more for a truck or large car. not the greatest quality but for the price you can't beat it. I mounted on the drivers side firwall by parking brake lever. Used that spot because I have a drivers and passenger side heater and don't witch one will be used. So it will work with either one.

[bmorgil]

I converted mine to 12 volts also. It is nice for charging the cell phone in the parade!

Its coming along nicely. The winch will be a great addition.

[LarrBeard]

That alternator looks like it grew there - very neat job. The wire block is nce too. It should make up into a very nice conversion. Sometimes it is best to just start over.....

[56willys]

I got a new gas tank installed. Steel reproduction and new sending unit and cap. I also ran lines and an inline filter. I made the tank strap out of some stainless steel I got with the Jeep. Also just got brake parts in the mail so i'll be installing them later today. Thank you all for the kind comments.

[LarrBeard]

A hint:

Nice strap - that should hold it in place. You might want to put some sort of rubber at the edges where it wraps over just for abrasion resistance. Maybe a couple of pieces underneath as well.

Before you close up the work around the gas tank, take a hour or so to calibrate the sender to the gauge on the Jeep. Replacements are almost never "just right". Put a couple of gallons in the tank and bend the float arm until the gauge reads "E". That way you know that you have a couple of gallons left when the gauge says "E". There is telling where "F" will be, but when it gurgles and runs over - you know its' full.

[56willys]

I did put rubber under the strap and under the tank. I haven't wired the guage yet but that is a good idea for when I do.

[56willys]

I got the brakes assembled. Took longer than expected because i was sent flatfender shoes, but they got it sorted out and sent correct ones. All 4 wheels are completely done. Just need to work on lines. I got the complete kit fom summit. has; drums, shoes, return springs, shoe hold down hardware, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, and hoses.

[56willys]

Found this new-to-me windshield. The old on was missing glass and the whole bottom was rusted out. Had about 1/4 " of putty. This one is the newer 69-75 style with the wipers mounted on the bottom to have taller glass. I have the wipers wired and working. It even has somebodys graduation cap tassle from 1974. Which if it's from high school they would have been born in 56 the same year as my jeep. I also tried wiring the gas guage. At empty the guage reads 1/2 and at full pegs the guage past full. I thought it was becuase the guage is 6 volt and I have 12 volt going to it. so I got a 12-6 volt reducer and it's still reading the same. I checked with a voltmeter and still have 11.5 volts at the guage and 12.5 on the battery. I don't know if the reducer is bad or what it is. Whould like to hear your thoughts.

[LarrBeard]

It is amazing how a topic will sit dormant for a long time, then we have several questions on that topic in just a short period of time.

Over the last week we worked with a gentleman on an instrument cluster voltage regulator problem. You can follow the story here:

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?3170-Willys-Truck-Gauge-Clusters

This probably has more than you really want to know about instrument cluster regulators.

I drew a quick diagram of how the regulator sits in the circuit. If you have 11.5 volts out of the regulator, it is fried. You should have about 5-volts out of the regulator. If it is working properly, it will drive a digital meter nuts and it may make the needle on a good old analog meter quiver around. Either the contact points are welded shut or the heater for the bi-metal strip has opened. You have nothing to lose – pry it open and see what you can find.

As I said in the last discussion, just about every manufacturer used the same type of regulator. If you can find one for a ’56 Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, Chevy or whatever – it will be very close to the one you have.

Good luck – let us know what you find.

[bmorgil]

It seems to always happen Larry! It is amazing.

56w, was your CJ originally 6 or 12 volts?

[gmwillys]

If memory serves, Kaiser changed the electrical system to 12 volt around 1958.

The windshield looks like it had lived there all its life.

[56willys]

Thank you all. The past owner said it was 12volt and had a 12v battery. Still had the original generate and 6v coil. Some of the lights were 12 and some were 6. I got the reducer from the local napa, just a universal unit. Looking at your diagrams you have grounds labeled. I just mounted it to the firewall so I might not be getting a good ground. I'll try a better ground and if that doesn't work maybe I got a faulty reducer from the factory.

[56willys]

I did an experiment with the voltage reducer by wiring a headlight to it. Then with the extra voltage draw it dropped to 6v. The reducer I have is ceramic with a wire filament that only drops volts when it has load on it. Like for headlight or heater motor. So I think i need to find an electronic reducer that will reduce volts constantly.

[LarrBeard]

What you have described is a resistor, not a voltage regulator. It reduces voltage, but it does not regulate the output voltage. The voltage at the output will vary with the current drawn by the load. Think of it as a ballast resistor for an ignition coil - like the one that we saw mounted on the firewall of a lot of cars way back when.

An electronic unit is a very good choice if you are working with a 12-volt to 6-volt conversion, but in the case of a 6-volt system you only want to drop a couple of volts and most of the readily available voltage regulators need a higher input voltage that the normal 7.4 - 7.5 volts you see in a 6-volt system at normal charge levels.

If you are dealing with a 12-volt system, this would be a good choice:

https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN%C2%AE-DC-DC-Converter-Supply-Waterproof/dp/B014ZQ6TFY. Tie it down to a good ground, the case is an electrical connection.

But, if you are still 6-volts, I poked around a bit and I found a couple of units that will probably do what you need at a cost that won’t break the bank.

This one is the original relay style. While it is an Old School approach, it will work just like the defective one you have. This one appears to have an adjustment screw to fine tune the output voltage if you need it.

https://www.npdlink.com/product/regulator-instrument-voltage-original-relay-style/100930/50625

REGULATOR, Instrument Voltage, repro, original relay style, located on back of gauge cluster, reduces voltage to 5-6 volts at the gauges.

1948-1952 F1-F3 AS VOLTAGE INVERTOR
1957-1964 F100-F350

Another choice is an all-electronic unit:

https://www.npdlink.com/product/regulator-instrument-voltage-electronic/177873/50625

REGULATOR, Instrument Voltage, electronic replacement, no adjustments necessary, more reliable than the original relay style regulator, output is a constant 5 volts as required.

1948-1952 F1-F3 AS VOLTAGE INVERTER

For both units, the IGN terminal is the straight tab and the “curled” tab goes to the gauges. Get it backwards and it won’t work. And, the tab is an electrical connection - screw it down to a good ground point.

Let us know what you find out…

[56willys]

Thank you for the informative reply. I will definitely consider the first one for 12 volts. Or look around for another similar electronic unit. Thanks again.

[56willys]

So over the weekend I pulled the willys out of the garage and let it idle about ten minutes. Aside from being a little rich (was just going to adjust that). Idled perfectly. Tapped the throttle a little bit and it started knocking. Is with rhythm of the motor and changes with rpm. Almost sounds like a sticking valve but almost to loud for that. It did this when I first got the jeep months ago, for about a minute then stopped and hasent done it scence. It has bean running great. Just the day before had it out doing 45. Fastest its been in a long time and never skipped a beat. I don't understand how it would just start doing this now after just tapping the gas.

Also where can I hook up a vacuum guage to the motor? I got new distributor parts and plug wires and was going to do a complete tuneup. I have electric wipers so no vacuum ports for wipers. I wanted to tune it with the vacuum, and now want to see if it has bad vacuum to confirm that it is a valve making noise.

I would like to know your thoughts.

[bmorgil]

On the F head, there should be a vacuum line fitting right below the carburetor in the head.

[LarrBeard]

It's the line just above the distributor.

[gmwillys]

56Willys,

Our L134 tends to be a little more noisy than I like. I hear a knock when others do not. Now our 2A had a farmer rebuild done 30 years ago, which consisted of one piston and a set of rings, and an inspection of the rod bearings. These engines do not like high RPM, and live the longest if driven under 45 mph. If you squeeze out 50 mph or higher, the long stroke of the connecting rods tend to beat the rod bearings into an egg shape. This is likely where your noise is coming from at idle and warm. The oil is thinner, and the knock more persistent. The added resistance of a higher idle paired with a few more pounds of oil pressure help to remove the knock. To help mine survive till its turn for a refurbish, I have run a bit of Lucus with the non detergent oil to help cushion the bearings. If not abused, the engine will last you many years without worry. Just keep an eye on the oil pressure to ensure that the bearings are retaining oil between the crank and the bearings.

[bmorgil]

As gm is alluding to, the 134's have very little oil pressure at idle. The cam is supported by only one bearing in the front. This causes a substantial loss of oil pressure as the block and cam clearance is large where the cam is not running in bearings on the remaining cam journals. As the block and cam wears it gets worse. On a rebuild it is not uncommon to have no oil pressure at idle because the block is too worn. This is easily remedied by installing cam bearings in the remaining journals on the block. This brings the idle oil pressure up substantially.

gm has given you the "hot tip". When the oil is hot and thin bring the idle up till you see some oil pressure.

[56willys]

First off thank you all for the insight.
Gmwillys you mentioned Lucas oil. What do you mean just their oil or an additive?

I don't have an oil pressure gauge. Only had a warning light from the factory. Where can I hook up one and is there a kit you recommend?

I do believe your rod bearing theory, but do you think it could also be a valve or lifter?

Been pushing around the idea if it is a bearing should I pull the oil pan and check them. Then replace bearings with the motor still in the jeep? Or even just do a complete rebuild? The thing I don't understand is why it would make the noise for a few minutes then go away and not come back for 4 months. I have had the valve cover off before and the head looks nice and clean.

[gmwillys]

56Willys,

The Lucus that I use is the oil additive. Bmorgil does bring up an excellent point on the cam bearing design. Also as you questioned, it would be wise to go through the valve lash first to ensure everything is in spec. If you would like to run an oil pressure gage you can T off where the oil pressure light sensor taps into the block. Usually, the sensor is tapped into the left side of the engine block, below the tappet cover.

My experience with a rod knock comes from a M37 Dodge Power Wagon that was a retired fire brush truck. At idle, it had a terrible knock from years of being run over the max speed. The truck had just over ten thousand miles on the odometer, but it had a lower end knock until you brought it up off of idle. Oil pressure was good cold or warm, but the noise was always there. The engine was the flat head 236 Chrysler that had a long rod stroke much the same as the Willys 134. The military PM manuals warned about the dangers of running the engine at sustained high RPM.

[51 CJ3]

No one wants to drive those military vehicles sensibly to a fire. We have a 5 ton truck rigged for brush and a couple of Chevy 1 1/4 ton trucks. They all sound like they are going to explode going down the highway. They don’t travel very far that way because most of the running hours are spent in the brush or idling at the scene but the fuse gets a little shorter every time they are dispatched to a fire.

[bmorgil]

56willys, one thing about a rod knock, it doesn't go away. You can quiet it down for a short period of time but a true "rod knock" is a bearing spinning if its loud, or getting ready if its quiet. Knocking sounds from an old worn engine usually occur when they are cold and quiet as they warm up. Like gm said, the rod bearings and rod ends get out of shape and clearance becomes excessive. there can be a bit of "clanking" around and oil pressure drops off as clearance picks up.

You can drop the pan and check the bearings. However I would bump the idle up to about 700 - 800. That should give it some idle oil pressure. A lot of times a piece of carbon can get stuck in the combustion chamber and make a knocking sound, then go away. A good drive will fix that. If the knocking is most prevalent when its cold and seems to improve when it gets warm, it might be getting a bit worn. If it has good oil pressure, compression, the oil stays in the motor and the plugs aren't fouling with oil, rebuilding it is not necessary just yet. It is however a great experience! It is a solid lifter engine so a valve with too much clearance will "tic" loudly. As the engine warms the clearance will tighten up and the sound might change. I would experiment a little with the knocking sound and let us know how its doing. Be gentle with it till you know for sure. If it is knocking from wear and you put it under a good load, that is where the trouble will occur. If it is going to spin a bearing it will do it then. A spinning engine bearing is very loud. You wont wonder if it is something serious. You will know. There will be metal in the oil.

[56willys]

Now you got me thinking. You said a chunk of carbon in the cylinder could make noise. I just put some seafoam in the gas the day before it started knocking. So maybe it is just carbon getting broken up.

I will definitely raise the idle up. And adjust the valves. Any tips for adjusting the valves? I've never tried lashing valves before. How much gap should there be?

Also that m37 is awesome!

[bmorgil]

Jacob, do you have the Willys Service Manual? Just in case, here is a link. Let me know if anything needs clarification. I don't think you will have any trouble. You set the lash on a cold engine. The lash on the F134 is .018" on the intake valve and .016" on the exhaust. The lash is set by loosening a lock nut and making an adjustment on the adjuster stud, then re-tightening the lock nut while holding the adjustment stud.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2394-53-71-Service-Manual-4-Wheel-Drive-CJ-3B-5-5A-6-6A-2-Wheel-Drive-DJ-5-DJ-6

[gmwillys]

It is very possible that the Sea Foam knocked a chunk carbon loose.

[56willys]

Well, yesterday I pulled the side valve cover and oil pan off. Didn't find anything wrong. It all looks super clean like its had a rebuild recently. There's some gunk In the bottom of the pan but nothing gunked up in the block or oil pickup. All the rod bearings feel tight. Some normal front to back.But no up and down play. And definitely nothing lose enough to knock. And cam lobes look good. Now I'm thinking its got to be carbon. At least I have the assurance that's its not something serious and there won't be a window in the block when I run it.

No i don't have the manual. I do have a circa 1970ish truck repair book that covers jeeps. Although it wasn't clear on valve lash.

[bmorgil]

Stick to the manual I gave you the link for. I think that is the best one out there. There are some areas that require clarification, but that's what the internet is for!

It sounds like all is good and you need to take it out for a ride. If you can, get yourself a printed manual. Mine is nicely full of greasy fingerprints, well used. I find it easier to use a printed manual rather than the computer screen.

[56willys]

New tires on the Willys. I found these at Spring Carlisle. 30/9.5/15 Bfgoodrich all terrain Ko2. Were alredy mounted/balenced on the wagon wheels. Practically brandnew, just a couple hundred miles. Still have the vent spews mostly intact. Definitly an improvement for looks and performance. The old tires were completely different front - back. And the rear tread was basiclly useless.

[test1328]

Those tires look really nice on your CJ. Nice job.

[bmorgil]

Nice looking shoes! Good thing you took the different tires front to rear off. In 4 wheel drive, if the rolling radius is different, it can and will raise trouble with your drive train.

[gmwillys]

Those are my go-to tires for anything with 4X4. They work great on and off road no matter what the terrain. I put a set on our 2A, and they made a world of difference in the drivability of the Heep. That was a great score.

[56willys]

I got all new tie rods. And did an alignment. Now both wheels are straight. And before with the new tires and old tie rod, even just slow in my yard you could see the tires wobbling back and forth. Now its solid. I even finished up wiring. All the lights work and everything is new. I got a new gasket and put the oil pan back on. Still have to set valve lash and then hopefully the knocking will go away. After it gets run some more.

[bmorgil]

Moving along nicely! Let us know if that knock comes back.

[gmwillys]

Good deal. Worn steering will drive you weary in a hurry. Glad you have it sorted out.

[56willys]

So over the last few weeks i reassembled the oil pan after confiriming the bearings/ wrist pins are good. I then set valve lash and finised putting covers back on. I got fresh oil and rebuilt the distributor. Then put on new plugs and wires. And retorqued head bolts(3 were probably 5-10 lbs lose). With the plugs out i turned it over with the starter to try to blow carbon chunks out. And also prime oil pump. It was then time to fire it up. Started easily and sounded good so I took it out and cruised 35-40 mph for over 4 miles. And a few more miles the other day. The entire time never knocked or had any weird noises and just purred along perfectly. After getting back from the 4 miles I took of the rubber hose on the valve cover off and there was no steam (normally it would smoke for a minute after shutting it off). Retorquing the head bolts probably helped. The oil is still nice and clean and didnt even leak. Was definitly running smoother with the new ignition system.
It's a happy Jeep.

[bmorgil]

That's about as good of a situation as you could ask for! Interesting the head stud nuts were that loose.

[56willys]

Yes. I'm happy the motor isn't seriously hurt. And hopefully I can get a long time out of it without problems. I thought it was weird that some bolts were lose too. The manual you gave me the link for said 60_70 ft lbs. I did 65 and all the other bolts clicked almost immediately. Who knows when the last time they were torqued.

[gmwillys]

Glad to hear that your engine is running smooth. That will be a load of your mind for sure.

[56willys]

Hello all, It's been a long time since an update. Because ive been busy going broke buying jeep parts. So here's a big update.
The '56 is running great and i've been slowly putting small parts on it. The only thing is the rear leaf spring shackles almost fell off. The C shackle pulled through the mount on the frame. So i need to get parts to fix that. And in the last week I bought a used Warn overdrive unit. (well actually 1 1/2 units) So that will be fun to try out, and hopefully get a little higher cruising mph. Also bought some body panels so I can get some rust turned into solid steel. Maybe soon i'll have floors to put my feet on. Then I bought another CJ5 from the local junkyard. (pics attached). Its kinda sad, sat way to long without being taken care of. The frame behind the trans. is non-existent. And forward is swiss cheese. All i got of the body is the cowl, hood, and dash. It does have axles. And the motor, trans, & t-case is 100% complete. I pulled the plugs and put some penetrating oil in the cylinders, so maybe it will turn over. So far it's stuck. The hood is surprisingly rust free but dented really bad. I'm planning on parting it out and selling parts. Probably keep the engine and maybe trans. to rebuild if it doesn't need to much. Will definetely try rebuilding the carb to learn how to. so i can rebuild the one on the 56. The front axle is marked 27-a. Would it be worth rebuilding to upgrade the D 25 in my other jeep? Would there be any improvement? The serial number is 8305 165646 I looked at the KW catalog and thought maybe 1959? I could be wrong.

[gmwillys]

Dr. Dana can chime in on facts on the Dana 27 vs the Dana 25. I do know that the bearings are bigger on the Dana 25, but am not well versed on the pros and cons of the two.

I like that you saved a forgotten CJ5 from the scrap heap. If I had the space, then I would have the entire back forty' full of parts and salvage pieces. You'll be surprised on no matter how big a Heep you find, the amount of good parts you'll find. The photos enclosed are of two of the three M38A1 carcasses that I harvested parts for a project. You'll like the overdrive as long as your expectations aren't too high. It will help with the overall speed by a few miles per hour depending on tire size, but any little bit helps.

[bmorgil]

I would stick with the 27. The 25 was phased out for the 27 which then became the 30. All models were improved as they were upgraded to later models.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?3160-The-Introduction-of-the-Dana-27

[56willys]

I'm hoping the overdrive works well. If anything I think it will be fun to play semi with splitting gears. Those m38a1 pieces don't look bad. Id restore them. I pulled the head off and took some other stuff apart. I will start another thread for this jeep. I'm now thinking of building it into some sort of trail buggy. But if that doesn't work I will swap axles.

[gmwillys]

Splitting gears would be fun for sure. You wouldn't have as much engine momentum of a heavy diesel flywheel as you would have in a semi, but it would be worth the challenge. The direct drive to overdrive shift would be a flick of the wrist, but the first gear high to second low then second high to third low would take some practice.

[56willys]

gmwillys,
It wil definetely take some practice, thats for sure! But i think it will be fun to learn.

[56willys]

So on my 56 the pivot eye pulled out of the frame bracket. (pics attached) KW website says that for 56 i need a pivot eye c shape shackles# 802061. Vintage jeep parts has regular shackles they say fit 55-71. KW says those regular shackles # 916646 didnt start untill 58. Is there any real difference? And is one better than they other? Also the bracket on the frame that the pivot eye bolts to. KW has one that says unthreaded. But i cant find threaded ones. Are threaded for the pivot eye and non threaded for shackle?
I'm not exactly being super smart for this bumb in the road so any explanation on what parts i need would be great. I've never had to do anything with this style of C shackle before. So i'm kinda lost...

[gmwillys]

The spring hanger itself is worn beyond serviceability, because the eyelet has been eaten through on the top, as seen in your first photo. The sides of the hanger is worn out of round on both sides from the shackle being driven around for a long time loose, or repaired previously incorrectly. Not to worry, this isn't a huge deal to fix, and to answer your question, you can use the later closed shackles, as long as you use the correct bushings in the hanger and spring. You can do one of three different fixes;

Replace the spring hanger completely: https://www.kaiserwillys.com/products/steel-leaf-spring-to-frame-shackle-bracket-unthreaded-fits-52-71-cj-5-m38a1/

Retain your current spring hanger and cut out the remainder of the sleeve, and go with the heavier duty closed shackle: https://www.kaiserwillys.com/products/leaf-spring-shackle-kit-fits-52-71-cj-3b-5-m38a1-non-greasable/

Or, if you want the look of the original 'C' shackle but want a bit more durability, go with the M38A1 shackle: https://www.kaiserwillys.com/products/leaf-spring-shackle-kit-heavy-duty-fits-52-66-m38a1-greasable/

I personally would go with the M38A1 style, because I like the originality of the 'C' shackle because they are greaseable for a longer life of the repair. The downside to this for your application, is that you would have to replace the eyelet with the threaded bushing.

[bmorgil]

Great write up gm! Just put this in the Tech Questions.

[56willys]

Thank you for the information! I'm looking at the m38a1 style. One question, KW only has right hand thread. From what i understand the cj5 has left hand thread on one side. I will replace both brackets on the frame with threaded brackets. will the right hand threads work in my leafsprings. I'm not sure if the original left thread is in the spring or frame mount. Thank you again. Hopefully I can order parts and get the jeep operational again!!

[gmwillys]

I'm certain that the driver's side is supposed to be left hand thread for both the frame bushing and the spring. All I can find are the right-hand thread on a couple of different web sights. I can find the open C shackles in left- and right-hand thread, but not the M38A1. Maybe with the closed C design, they are all right-hand thread. If I get some time, I'll continue to dig. I would contact Mike at Kaiser Willys to see what he says.

[bmorgil]

This will help from the service manual. Of course it is sideways..... There are only 2 left hand thread bushings. It is a bit bizarre the way they are used. You can change to all right hand. Left hand thread bushings are rare. I think they were only used until 1956. They were phased out. The left hand shackles are available from KW.

10733

[56willys]

I just pulled out the C shackle this morning. On the passenger side. The top that goes into the frame bracket was normal thread and the bottom into the spring is reverse thread. (someone must have had this apart at sometime and put it together wrong) Also the hole in the leaf spring that the shackle goes into is almost smooth. theres no threads left. When taking it apart The outer bushing threaded out with a ratchet. And would not pull out atleast not without force. Threaded it out and now it all looks almost smooth . I can see there was threads on the outside of the bushing, very faint. But i cant see any on the spring. I will defiitely replace both frame brackets as the passenger side is rotted as bad as the other side, that you saw pics of. Since there is no threads on the spring should i get the closed shackle. https://www.kaiserwillys.com/product...non-greasable/ That way i'm not relying on threads into the spring. Because it looks like its now a bit oversized so I might not be able to cut new threads for C shackles.

[bmorgil]

No matter what you choose, you are going to need to replace the spring bushing. I would go back with the original set up all right hand. Or you could upgrade as gm suggested. What ever you do make both sides the same if you can.

It sounds like you are saying the spring eye is worn out. You do not cut threads into the spring. There are no threads in the spring. The bushing pulls itself into the spring as you thread it in. What you are seeing in the spring eye is the bushing wearing into the spring.

[56willys]

I saw a video by Kaiser Willys that said you had to thread the bushing in to make threads. Heres some pics of the spring with and without the bushing. Notice the gap between the bushing and spring. Do you think its worn too much. I can wiggle the bushing side - side but it wont pull through. This could be because of the bushing being worn.

[bmorgil]

I am not sure what you have there for a bushing. The bushing threads onto the shackle. That looks like a frame bushing. These should be your shackle bushing assembly.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/products/leaf-spring-shackle-kit-right-hand-thread-fits-41-58-mb-gpw-cj-2a-3a-3b-5-m38-greasable/
(https://www.kaiserwillys.com/products/leaf-spring-shackle-kit-right-hand-thread-fits-41-58-mb-gpw-cj-2a-3a-3b-5-m38-greasable/)
This is a video of the rear. It is the same process as the front.

https://youtu.be/72d3SbYBCPo (https://youtu.be/72d3SbYBCPo)

It has a hex nut on one end so you can screw it in. As you screw the bushing into the shackle it will pull itself into the spring. The shackle kits have everything you need. The bushings come with the shackles. You can get the left hand kits and the right hand kits.

As you thread the bushing in it will pull itself into the spring eye. Its not really making any threads, though it may seem like it. I did hear him say that in the video. It should be very tight in the spring eye. I cant tell how worn the spring eye is. The new bushing will tell the tale. If the new bushing goes in tight you are all set. If the new bushing is loose at all, the spring eye is worn out.

[56willys]

That is the same video I saw and was referencing. I think ill just order a set of new shackles and frame brackets and see how well they fit. Ill probably go with the m38a1 shackle gmwillys recommended.

[bmorgil]

gm has you on the right track, those will work for you. I cant tell but it is possible the spring eye will still hold the bushing tightly. When you get it reassembled, as long as the bushing doesn't move in the spring eye when the suspension moves you are good to go.

[gmwillys]

The bushing going into the spring eye must be a press fit, (or at least driven in and remain snug) even with the closed "C" M38A1 shackles. Any lateral movement will cause your shackles and springs to wear excessively, and quick. As Bmorgil was saying the spring bushing to shackle fitment is not threaded, but rather an interference fit with the threads indexing the shackle into its home position as it is turned in.

[56willys]

I just got a box of parts from KW. And so far the shackle bushing fits tight and will need a wrench to go in. Just like it should. (Yay I don't need leaf springs!) So now I just need to finish ripping out the old stuff then it should go back together easily. As long as I can drill out those rivets for the frame bracket.

[bmorgil]

Good deal!

I use an air chisel to pop the heads off the rivets, then drive the rest out with a punch. On ones that wont pop off, I grind the head off and drive the rest out with a punch. You can also use a hand chisel. Score the rivet head with a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder to make it easier. There are a few YouTube videos. Search for "Frame rivet removal".

[56willys]

After some struggle with the rivets I finally got the old stuff dissasembled. I air chiseled the head off and drilled through the center and the rivets popped out. The one bushing in the spring, the hex part rounded and then broke off. So I had to hacksaw it into pieces and take it out like pieces of pie. Then I got new frame brackets and M38a1 shackles. That all Installed well and is so far working good. The new bushing did thread into the spring nice and tight. So everything should be good. The old frame brackets were definetely getting bad. good thing I replaced them. I do thank you all for the help figuring out what i needed.

[LarrBeard]

Oh yeah - that turned out very nicely. You'll be glad you did that.

These are the ones that came off of the '48 truck.

[bmorgil]

That's a nice strong setup.

[gmwillys]

Looking good.

[56willys]

Hey guys just sharing the fact that today is exactly one year since I bought flossy. This first year of willys ownership has taught me so much and introduced me to some great people. Looking forward to many more years as a willys fanatic. And a lot more adventures with my cj5.

[bmorgil]

Awesome to have you here with us 56! You are going to love that old Jeep. The greatest thing is all the parts are out there to just keep it going for a long time.

[56willys]

Thanks Bob. I'm glad to be here too. I do apreciate the availability of parts. Hopefully I'll be able to keep it on the road till i die.

[56willys]

I had Flossy out for a nice cruise last weekend. Just joyriding the backroads by my house. Not entirely ready for the big scary roads with traffic and cops yet lol. But there was a super cool sunset and i had to test out the latest carb tune.
Heres a link to a youtube video of the excursion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC2V8OW79F4&t=77s All in all i'm very pleased with how the old girl is running. It would pop when engine braking down a hill. I pulled plugs out and boy was it rich. So i leaned it out and played with timing. Now it goes down hills smooth as can be. Also i'm getting better and better at the whole driving/shifting thing. Didnt even stall it! (thats a first!!!)

[gmwillys]

Looking great 56! Flossy is looking good at sunset.

[LarrBeard]

Taking Old Jeeps for a back road ride is probably the second best way to enjoy them (parades are first...). You are slow enough to enjoy the scenery and you don't have to dodge the fast traffic that wants to get somewhere in a hurry.

[bmorgil]

You are slow enough to enjoy the scenery..............

Words of wisdom from you there Larry!

[56willys]

Taking Old Jeeps for a back road ride is probably the second best way to enjoy them (parades are first...). You are slow enough to enjoy the scenery and you don't have to dodge the fast traffic that wants to get somewhere in a hurry.

Agreed 100%!! Willys Jeeps love back roads. And they are a lot easier to drive. Under 35 there's a lot less wandering. Also less rpm, the hurricane likes that! I hope to get it in a parade in the future, show of the awesomeness.

[56willys]

Looking great 56! Flossy is looking good at sunset.

Thank you! The sun gives cool colors. And its dark enough to hide rust lol.

[56willys]

So I'm planning to get a new exhaust. The one on it is completely shot. I've been considering getting the pipes from the manifold to the rear axle from kw. Since the pre bent is cheaper than buying pipe then having to weld and bent to fit. Id rather just spend the money and have it bolt right in. But I'm thinking of getting a different muffler than stock. Possibly a glass pack etc. Just wondering if anyone has experience with custom mufflers on the F head? And what muffler would sound good?

[gmwillys]

I have a Cherry Bomb glass pack on our Heep with the L134. It's been on there at least 30 years and was put on there by the previous owner. It is well seasoned regardless, and sounds like a regular Jeep muffler, if not a bit better. On ours, the Cherry Bomb was put on the end of the down tube off the manifold, then there is a "custom" tailpipe that exits at the right rear quarter panel, behind the wheel. I would go with the pre-bent exhaust kit. You may have to trim down the tail pipe to give enough room for the glass pack to fit in where the muffler would have gone.

[bmorgil]

I have the pre-bent system from KW. I agree with gm, it fits nicely. The muffler is pretty much straight through stock. The little 134 isn't very loud and if you are looking for that "race car" sound, I don't think you will get it. The little motor has mild compression and even milder cam timing. Not a real racy sounding engine. I have heard gm's run and it sounds great. Like a Swiss watch! The muffler that comes with the KW kit is similar in sound and a bit quieter.

[LarrBeard]

Neither of the 134 engines has enough going on with compression and cam timing to give a lot of sexy noise, but I do notice that on the '48 (F-134, stock exhaust) when I go down a divided highway - up against the concrete barrier, at about 35 MPH the exhaust has kind of a "snarky" tone to the echo. Kind of nice.

It idles like a watch though - just purrs.

It's hard to beat a bolt on stock exhaust for ease of installation and simplicity.

[bmorgil]

Agreed Larry! I heard yours run too, it definitely just "purrs"!

[56willys]

Thanks for the info. I know I won't get it to sound like a v8. And i kind of don't want to. I still would love the smooth watch like or sewing machine sound. With just a little bit of extra noise on acceleration. Enough to be different, and unique. I think ill try a glass pack and see what it sounds like. But jeeps are never done, so I can always change and modify down the road.

[56willys]

Well today I used Flossy to tow my brother's 89 ford van around in the yard to get it out of the way of Christmas lights. (Hard to believe its that time already) And it ran great like always. Moved the heavy van like it was nothing. However it did smoke quit some out the exhaust. It started smoking occasionnly awhile ago. It first did when I was blazing trails for a friends party and was idling a lot then started smoking when I revved it to claim over a rock pile.

Fast forward a couple months, it never smokes on cold start. Only when revving and sometimes it does sometimes it dosen't. Also it has always had a dead spot when revving. Driving [mostly in low range) when you rev it it will die then come back. And holding at a certain rpm without load. Like in low first gear mostly will break up if you hold it at a continuous rpm. I was told all this is a bad accelerater pump. So I'm planning a carb rebuild soon.

Is it possible that the carb is giving it too much fuel. Almost flooding it and causing it to smoke from excess vapor? The thing is it never smokes on cold start. Like it should if its head gasket, valves etc. Also the oil has been staying clean. When I first got it the oil would foam. But never smoked. Now oil stays clean but it smokes.
Maybe I just need to stop being paranoid and except the fact that its a 60 year old jeep. But I hate to blow it up because of something simple to fix.

[Skboyd]

That statement " jeeps are never done" I think is the quote of the year, should be on a T-shirt.
I had similar experiences with dead spot or hesitation at accelerating. Was a carburetor adjustment or rebuilt. I think it's a common thing for the Carter carbs I was told. Sounds to me like a mixture adjust in carb. So some carburetor work may fix that. Did for me.

[bmorgil]

56, isn't it awesome when the old vehicle pulls the newer vehicle out of the way!

Smoke can be diagnosed somewhat by how it is acting, and the plugs. Step one is it oil, fuel or water (steam). If it has blue oil smoke under high vacuum, coasting or when you rev it and back off the gas, it is usually the valve guides. If it is smoking under load, or as the rpms build, it is usually the rings loosing their seal for whatever reason. If the smoke is black and smells like fuel, it is. The carb is suspect. If it is white and appears to be steam and smells like anti freeze, you struck water somewhere. A pressure check will help find the leak.

The hesitations and stumble do sound like a carb rebuild is in order. The stumble sure sounds like an accelerator pump issue and the lean stumbles sound like dirt in the carb. If the smoke is black, it could be your issue. When it comes to rich or lean miss fires, engines seldom miss fire when they are too rich, they smoke. They miss fire when they are too lean.

The spark plugs will help a lot here. Look for:
1) Black oil on the threads of the plug. They should be clean. Black oil is un-burned oil from combustion getting pushed passed the threads. This is Thee Best first indicator of heavy oil fouling in the cylinder. Steam cleaned plugs are hitting water.
2) Read the plug. https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?3225-How-to-Properly-Read-a-Spark-Plug
3) If it is steam, look for bubbles in the radiator water. Take the cap off the radiator and warm the engine until the thermostat opens and you see water flowing in the radiator. Once the water is flowing, look for bubbles in the water. There should be none.
4) If it is steam, get a pressure checker and test the system. You will hear or see the air escaping into the water.
5) If the plugs are black and sooty, the carb is too rich.

Some things off the top of my head 56. Give it a look over and we can keep looking. Shoot a pic of the plugs. Usually when the rings start to go, the oil starts to color quick, within 1000 miles. It may or may not show it is using oil on the dipstick, because it doesn't take much to create smoke. My first guess from what you described was rings, the clean oil however makes me wonder what you have there. If the plugs show oil, a compression test will tell more.

Now if its just burnin' a little oil...... She is an old girl!

[56willys]

That statement " jeeps are never done" I think is the quote of the year, should be on a T-shirt. Ha ha it is true though. I always think about it. It doesn't have to be perfect now. There's always room for improvement down the road. No matter how much I do there will always be something that still breaks. Or I decide to change. I can't take credit for that quote. I read it back when there were still print magazines. Like JP and Petersons 4 wheel.

[56willys]

Thanks Bmorgill. So the smoke is mostly white with gray. On startup and idle it never smokes. If I'm cruising at stable rpm it's good. But when I give it a sudden rev to accelerate it puffes smoke then clears out when i let off or it gains speed. And sitting in neutral it smokes when ever a rev it. Then pulling the van it smoke when ever I throttled up. When it smokes it normally smells rich. I'll try to get some pics of the plugs. Last I checked them there was oil on the threads. The porcelain was brown and everything else black. That was a good bit of running ago so I'll check again.

[56willys]

56, isn't it awesome when the old vehicle pulls the newer vehicle out of the way! Yep! 40 years, 4 cylinders, and 200 horsepower difference. But quess which one runs? The little willys that could!

[56willys]

Update on the smoking. Today I pulled it out to do some snow wheeling. And it smoked a tiny bit on start up. But it was 25 degrees and I haven't started it in a couple weeks. So probably just moisture in the muffler. Then I drove around for a while and never noticed any smoke. Maybe it was just too rich and now with the air being colder the carb tune is better?

[bmorgil]

I am thinking it hadn't been run long in a while and you had a ring or two, sticking in the piston if it was blue smoke. It sounds like running it freed it up and it is now doing a better job. A lot of black smoke would be way rich like the choke was stuck on. I don't think the air density changed enough with the temp change, to "smoke" or not "smoke". It would be difficult to have the jetting of the carb rich enough to smoke. Maybe stink like un-burned fuel, but not necessarily "smoke". I think you need to drive it a bit more and see how it does. If you see it smoking, pull the plugs and look for oil on the threads and electrode. If the smoke is white steam and dissipates quickly in the air it is water in the exhaust. If it smells like ant-freeze you have a pressure leak.

[56willys]

Thank you for the help. the little bit of smoke now on startup was white and was barely visible. so probably water in the exhaust. Before when it smoked it would smell like gas. Your probably right on needing to drive more. Being not entirely legal its hard to get actual miles on it. I can mostly just run in our pretty small yard in low range. And occasionally go up my road a couple miles. I'm planning after the holidays to take the body off for rust repair. Which unfortunately will result in the engine sitting for a while. But if I get the body solid then hopefully this spring i'll get licensed and start getting some real road miles on it. Which should help it and expose more problems. My buddy got a TJ that had sat for a while. and the more he drives it, it just keeps running better and better.

[56willys]

I got to give rides in Flossy on Christmas. Ran about 10 miles. The only time i noticed it smoking was once on acceleration. My uncle drove it, Therefore i was able to watch for smoke. It puffed out a cloud of white smoke. When He pulled out of the driveway and reved it up for second gear. As soon as he let off the gas and just cruised it stoped smoking.

Merry Christmas and happy new year!! Hope everyone is having a great holiday!

[bmorgil]

Great news! Happy New Year to you! Hope you had a great Christmas.

[56willys]

Your probably right about the rings. Do you think some oil additive would help it? I don't really want to get into a rebuild just yet.

I will take to tub of soon. And patch rust over the winter. So I won't be able to really run it much until spring. Hopefully then I can do the exhaust (probably get the main pipe from kw then adapt a glass pack) and a carb rebuild. Then look into the engine more.

Had a wonderful Christmas for sure! Now just need to look forward to more jeeping on 2024!

[bmorgil]

I think additives just cost money. At this point it sounds like its running OK, just a little smoke. I think I would keep it running maybe clean the plugs after a while, and rebuild it when your ready.

[gmwillys]

Run what you have. Like Bmorgil said, most snake oils out there are designed to separate you from your money.

[56willys]

Thank you guys for the insight! I'll wait till spring so i can get some real road miles on it. Then depending on how it handles that, i'll figure out a plan. Maybe with more running it will clean itself up, or if not I might try my hand at engine rebuilding next winter. But for now i need some body mounts...

[56willys]

I found a roll bar for Flossy. Not mounted just a mock-up. Not sure if i'll keep it on fulltime or just for offroading. Any event/offroad park near me requires a rollbar. It will hopefully lower the fatality of my Willys.

[56willys]

Well I did it. Fenders off, and everything else that connects the tub to the frame has been removed. Man, some of this feels like I just put it together. I already miss my jeep. But there comes a time when rust repair is necessary.

[56willys]

It's sure had a fight with the rust monster... The one picture is all that's left of one nut holding the fender to the grill. I'm going to have to make some temporary supports so it doesn't make a jeep taco when we lift it off the frame. Even though I like tacos, just with beef and tortillas not my jeep lol.

[LarrBeard]

Weld some angle iron across it like it was in a Stryker frame to hold it in place - like a rotisserie.

[gmwillys]

I made a connecting frame that bolted in the dashboard mount bolts and then tacked it to the fender wells. It definitely kept the taco effect from happening.

[bmorgil]

Well I did it. Fenders off, and everything else that connects the tub to the frame has been removed. Man, some of this feels like I just put it together. I already miss my jeep. But there comes a time when rust repair is necessary.

Keep at it 56, the trick to it is never walk away forever. Steady as she goes, work at your own pace and she will be back on the road before you know it. Once you have the body off, it is so much easier to "dial it in".

[56willys]

Good idea there, Gmwillys. I hadn't thought about bracing like that, So i'll ad that into the plan. Then I'm planning a bar across the top of the tailgate opening. And another brace across the fenderwells right behind the door opening. That should hold it enough to get it off the frame.

My plan for repairing. Is I'll get some sqaure tubing. Maybe 1x1 inch. And make a framework underneath. like a racecar chassis. Basically going between whatever solid spots i can find. I have a repair panel for the rear below the tailgate. Probably order the mid floor riser from kw. then tie everything together with the tubing. Running some tube along the rockers to the firewall. Which will also act as rocksliders. And some from the mid floor riser to the back, along the bottom of the inner fenders. Then just keep adding tubing throughout untill its reinforced enough. Then i'll just weld sheet steel to the fresh tubing. Basically the only part of the front floor still solid is the top and walls of the tolbox. Everything else needs cut out.

I have access to some rough cut oak planking from a tree we had cut down. Maybe i'll make that into the rear bed floor.

No matter what, i am keeping my eye out just in case i find a different tub.

[gmwillys]

Sounds like you have a good plan in place, and the reinforcement tubing/rock sliders are a good idea. I have been there before with the tub rust, but there is nothing that is too far gone.

[gmwillys]

More photos;

[bmorgil]

I swear gm can bring one back from just the iron oxide left behind!

You are putting it back together the same way a competition vehicle is looked at. Reinforcing it for the work it is going to do.

[56willys]

Got the bracing welded in place. I did it simpler than planning. I was going to add the angles down from the dash, but I got these 2 in place. And did I trial pickup, and everything stayed solid.


I also measured and squared everything up. I didn't think it was so bad. But once I started measuring, man it was crooked. I had to stretch the middle about 3/4 inch. And squeeze the back about an inch. But now it's square (or at least as strait as a willys can be)

[56willys]

After talking to TJones. About buying a tub from him. I decided to keep mine and repair it. I do appreciate Tim working with me. But after more thought I think I'm better off with the original iron.

So with that said. The rust repair has commenced. The body is completely separated from the chassis.

[gmwillys]

Looking good 56. You'll be happy with your decision to repair what you have, although TJ's tub wouldn't be a bad second choice. The American made floor pans offered by KW are good panels to use. I've used them and they fit well and are of the correct thickness.

[TJones]

I could not help but ask about the Ole Black Ford Pickup in the background Jacob :confused::confused:
Like I need another Project;)

[bmorgil]

On your way now 56'! So much you can get your hands on once the body is off. They are like giant ATV's.

gm is thinking that tub is fixable I am sure. TJ is always hawking' the pic's for another project!

[TJones]

Doesn’t hurt to ask Bob:cool::cool:

[Catlewis]

If you can save the tool box and the "hump" for the transmission, the rest of the floor is flat steel! I drilled the spot welds out around the perimeter of the underseat tool box and removed it. Then use a cutoff wheel to cut the floor around the floor hump. Save the hump and keep it attached to the firewall. Buying floor pans will be far far more expensive than purchasing flat pieces of sheet steel. Brush-up on your "mig welding skills"!

111861118711188

[56willys]

If you can save the tool box and the "hump" for the transmission, the rest of the floor is flat steel! I drilled the spot welds out around the perimeter of the underseat tool box and removed it. Then use a cutoff wheel to cut the floor around the floor hump. Save the hump and keep it attached to the firewall. Buying floor pans will be far far more expensive than purchasing flat pieces of sheet steel. Brush-up on your "mig welding skills"!

111861118711188

Mine will get cut out just like yours. My toolbox is good enough to stay, just needs the bottom floor. And the trans hump is solid, except i will have to repair some of it towerds the rear.

That complete front floor assembly from KW looked awfull tempting. But at $800 I think your right about getting my own sheet steel!

[56willys]

I could not help but ask about the Ole Black Ford Pickup in the background Jacob :confused::confused:
Like I need another Project;)

Thats my Dads truck. Has been in the family since the mid 70s, After sitting for over 25 years. We got it back on the road during covid. Repowered with a 351w and 4 spd. Currently in winter hibernation.

[56willys]

Thank you all for the encouragement! I will post updates as soon as I make more progress!!

[TJones]

That thing is nice!!!!

[bmorgil]

Things are moving along at your place 56! That Ford is just a cutie! A Bitchin' hot rod truck there. In the 70's that was very popular, to stick a hot rod car motor and a car 4 speed in a pickup. I bet it runs good with that 351 you slipped in there.

[56willys]

Yes, the truck does get down the road wonderfully. I never road in it stock. But I would say 375 is alot better than 95 horsepower. Then theres my brother building a full race setup for his truck. And flossy just sits there happily with its 72 horsepower!!


Also, I dont need this yet, Rust repair is more important. But was wondering what your thoughts are on the steering stabilizer kit KW sells? Thinking of taking advantage of their 15% sale. To stock up on parts that I'll need. Anyone have experience with the stabilizer, and how much it improves driving?

[bmorgil]

There are a few discussions on the forum about the stabilizers. I am not a fan of them on street vehicles, that are not used off road for real.

The "stabilizer" is really there to help with the large feedback to the steering wheel when off roading. The big hits to the wheels can transfer the abrupt motion to the wheel and jerk it in your hands. This was really the original intent. In doing so, the stabilizer does impart an extra load to the system. In manual steering it will increase the effort to turn, when the steering wheel is turned quickly. They can mess with the steering wheel "return". Used as intended they are mandatory if you are truly off roading it hard. In the rocks you would wish you had one. They look cool. They work great in off road competition.

[56willys]

Thank you for the great info. That is good to now. I was thinking I needed it to reduce bumbsteer on the road. But now what you said. You have saved me 100 bucks. I will offroad it in the future, however it will mostly be on the road. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge like always.

[gmwillys]

Steering stabilizers are commonly used to mask bigger issues within the steering system. I do not have one on my Heep, and the steering acts just fine, even off road and on the rocks. One just has to remember to never stick your thumbs within the steering wheel just in case you do run across something that grabs the wheel.

[56willys]

Thanks Gm. The little driving I have done, it handles okay. The only thing is it shakes when I hit a bumb. But I need a better alignment. And the shocks on it currently, are completely useless. So any issues with it are probably in other things. I did see, when removing the body. I took out the steering column and found the Pittman arm is very worn. I might also tear into the bell crank and in inspect that if I have a chance.

I just thought if you guys had a stabilizer on your jeep. And said it improved drivability, then I'd get one. But good News you folks have saved me money to invest where it is needed more. Thank you again for the help!

[bmorgil]

56, wiggling after a bump can usually be traced back to looseness in general. Tie rods, Idler and Pitman Arm all need a check for looseness. Most important for a smooth tracking Jeep, are the King Pin bearings and their proper adjustment. Many a "wobbling" Jeep can be traced back to loose King Pin Bearings.

[56willys]

Thank you for the feedback! I did change all the tie rods and ends. I checked the king pins when I first got the jeep. By just shaking the tire. They seemed to be tight. Just now when pulling the body I took out the steering column. And started inspecting the gearbox. Inside looks great, clean and tight. However the Pittman arm ball that goes into the draglink was more square then round. But I pulled on off my parts jeep and it is alot less worn. When I start putting things back together I'll inspect the bellcrank. And I know the quick alignment I did is not perfect. So I'll keep tinkering with it when its back on the road. Also when I did my alignment. I didn't do any toe-in. Because at that time I didn't know I was supposed to. So fine tuning that could help.

[bmorgil]

It looks like you are going through it pretty well 56'.

The King Pin Bearings are checked with a weight scale hooked to a spindle with nothing attached to them. There is a post on here somewhere about that. The service manual does a great job of stepping you through the process. You need to have a good preload on the bearings. Just shaking the wheel wont tell you if there is enough preload.

Here is a good discussion on looseness and setting the bearings starting on post #51
https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2838-Hot-mess-a-1967-CJ-5-restoration/page17&highlight=scale

[bmorgil]

Just ran across your start on the photo album. I like the description of the "Flossy Project"! A great name for her.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/album.php?albumid=184

[56willys]

Thats great info. I had no idea there was that type of specific testing for king pins. I'll definitely inspect them better once things start going back together. I got it to run good, it stops, and has lights. Pretty soon will have floors. But it would be nice to go straight!! Thanks for the info. You are the master!

"Just ran across your start on the photo album. I like the description of the "Flossy Project"! A great name for her."
Thanks, i thought it would be something different. And i like things with historical meaning. A cool story i can tell people. I'll post more photos in the album once i get a chance.

[56willys]

I put a window in the floor!

Rust repair has officially commenced! Rear floor is out. And new rear valence is welded in. I got the lower panel at a swap meet, and the top piece is recycled bed frame.

Don't look to closely at my welds, although the're good enough that when I cut the floor it didnt collapse. It just won't win a beauty pageants lol.

[bmorgil]

It is looking like the "skin graph" is going well 56"! I wouldn't worry about the welds. They held and that's perfect. A nice looking weld is an art. It takes a lot of practice. I certainly am not any good at it.

[LarrBeard]

"I put a window in the floor!"

Well, to wander a bit. The F-4U Corsair (the gull-winged fighter) had a window in the floor! Since it was a very tall tail dragger, the window let the pilot see the center line on the taxiway. But - as it turned out, the window didn't help all that mush. The pilot had to zig-zag the airplane so you could see to the left and right around that tall engine. On more than one occasion, Corsairs overran another aircraft and chopped off chunks of their fuselage.

[TJones]

56 you are not messing around, keep up the good work!!!
Like Bob said welding is a Art, what you’ve done looks Good and you don’t think it does slap a little mud on it when you’re finished :D

[56willys]

Thanks guys!! I'm not to concerned about welds/ appearance, as long as it doesn't fall apart on the trail that's my goal. I even said when i first went to look at it, "if I buy this my welding skills will surely improve!" When I get it done I'll have to post some pics of the first weld compared to the last weld!

Hey Larry, that is some really cool information you gave me. That was well worth wandering off topic for. It's always a great day when you learn something new!! Plus now I have another neat fact to tell people around the campfire! This is way I love this forum.

[gmwillys]

Looks good to me. Welding sheet metal is an art for sure, but is seldom pretty without the use of a TIG welder. The MIG requires you to gun and run on to another area to prevent from warping the panel, so you end up with tons of spot welds linked together. Stacking dimes isn't a thing when it comes to sheet metal unless you have a bunch of daily practice.

[Catlewis]

Make certain your metal is clean clean clean! Make certain you have a very good ground. I use .021" solid wire and bump up the shielding gas. Don't get into a hurry, fast = warped metal. Even grinding too aggressively can warp sheet metal. Like others have said it's a bunch of spot welds.112231122411225

[Catlewis]

Another avenue to consider is panel bonding. Modern adhesives are amazing!

[bmorgil]

I truly admire the way you guy's put the originals back together.

[56willys]

You got a lot of welding done there Cat! I'm using my brother's harbor freight Flux core with .030 wire. I'm going to try to spot weld as much as possible.

I should get better and better at welding the more I do it. All the experience I have is just tacking one thing together about once a year. This is the first real fabrication job I've done. I'll probably get the hang of it just in time for this jeep to be done. Then the next willys I buy, I'll be a pro!!

[56willys]

Pay attention, in a couple months this will be a jeep!!!

Picked up the square tubing from a friend. I'll use that for supports all through the tub. Then I'll cover everything with that 16 guage 4x10 sheet I bought today.

[gmwillys]

When you master the flux core, you'll have it made in the shade. Flux core is the most challenging in my opinion. I like .035 solid with 75 percent argon, because I like a good amount of filler to fill gaps to help prevent warpage. I purchased a multi process TIG welder, and have yet to sit down and set it up for use. Not enough time in the week, even for new toys.

[Catlewis]

Thinner wire with shielding gas will offer the best conditions for success when compared to flux core wire. I really like the 024 wire however again want to stress regardless of which wire size you decide on, it's extremely important to have clean metal and good ground. Research seems to indicate original Jeep sheet metal started life as 18ga, however after 50 or 60+ years of atmospheric exposure and corrosion the metal degrades. Which is nothing more than a fancy way of saying what's remaining of your Jeep is something thinner than the 18ga starting point. Also realize, welding thin sheet metal is challenging for anyone regardless of skill level. Distortion and blowing holes thru the steel is just part of the game, don't get frustrated. Remember, you're basically holding a metal caulking gun in your hand, so don't get upset when you melt holes because you can fix it! When the welding and grinding is complete, I covered both sides (when possible) with epoxy paint and then short hair fiberglass bondo to create a waterproof repair. Normal plastic fillers & body work can be applied on top of this. Plastic fillers applied directly over unprotected welds will have a dramatically shortened service life and they're not waterproof.

[bmorgil]

I also like the .024 wire with an Argon mix. I have a small Lincoln 110v Power MIG. It doesn't work well with anything but .024 wire. It is great for thin gauge steel.

[56willys]

Thank you so much for sharing your tricks! I greatly appreciate it. I've never tried welding with gas before. And don't have a machine compatible. So I'll just stick with the flux. I'll run the tubing across wherever there's solid steel on the factory body. Then any new metal I put on can go directly to the tube. Avoiding as much welding on thin original metal as possible.

The good thing is I'm not to worried about looks, and don't care about concourse correct. I just need a strong jeep that can cruise down the road, and through some trails.

[56willys]

Well I didn't feel like getting into serious work on the tub today. So i worked on little things, I made new plates to cover the drain holes on the floor. Just cut some 16g and bent tabs. Thay turned out pretty nice. Then I made this license plate frame. As you probably know plates hang below the rear bumper on a willys. And I didn't want it to get bent when I come of rocks. Especially running a vintage plate. So I made this surround that the plate bolts onto and can hinge away. I'll attach the hinge to the bumber. So it just swings away from any rocks or brush. I tapped some threads to run 10 32 machine screws for easy assembly.

[gmwillys]

The license plate protector/surround is a good addition. I know my plate takes a beating in the stock location behind the left rear tire. The drain covers look perfect too!

[bmorgil]

I like the plate idea. Mine gets beat up just pulling the cover over it. The little "personal touches" are what make this your Jeep.

Your welds will work fine. Remember, many a nasty weld has been "prettied up" with an angle grinder. On tin, the gas flux will do fine. Just heed what gmwillys and Catlewis are telling you about spot welding and spacing of the spots to keep it from warping.

[TJones]

You are quite the craftsman there 56!!!!

[TJones]

Here’s a little tool that’s handy as a shirt pocket for welding or patching holes 56

11236

[Catlewis]

Magnets are invaluable for holding metal parts accurately for welding. It's that third hand you sometimes wish you had. I use everything from the fancy angled Lincoln magnets for joining metal at various angles to magnets harvested from old speakers and electric motors. Find a magnet, stick it to the underside of your welding cart and I guarantee somewhere in the future you'll be thanking yourself for keeping it.

[bmorgil]

I love those angle magnets for welding. You are right Catlewis, a couple of big magnets are invaluable when welding. It sounds like you do your share of welding Catlewis!

[TJones]

The ones I was pointing out has the copper pad that the weld doesn’t stick to, so you can build up with weld if what your welding too is to thin.

[bmorgil]

That is a nice tool TJ. I have to get one of those.

[56willys]

I thought of building the plate surround after some offroading last summer. i was blazing trails cutting though tall brush. and after an afternoon of trailriding the plate was bent. So i figured i had to do something to prevent that. My brother has a couple triangle welding magnets i use. And i have some magnats off of blown out speakers as well. I like that one you have TJ, Might need to look into those. My Grandpa told me a trick to clamp a chunk of flattened copper pipe below any soft spots to prevent blow-through. kind of the same concept. I'll definetely go slow when welding on the body. Just do a spot weld, let it cool, then do another.

[gmwillys]

I use a lot of different sized vise and C clamps, some magnets, but also like Cleco fasteners, (for lap joints) and butt clamps. A good chunk of copper is great to have too. The second photo is one of the pieces that I use for larger panels.

https://www.harborfreight.com/welding/welding-accessories-tools/butt-welding-clamps-8-piece-60545.html

[bmorgil]

Even the saw horse is nice! Good looking craft there gm.

[Catlewis]

Yep! That's how it's done "correctly" right there.

[gmwillys]

It helps a whole bunch to bring your work as high as possible to be more ergonomic to work on as possible. The lower quarters are comfortable to work from a roll around work chair, while the upper quarters can be worked standing. It makes a world of difference in the quality of the work. The first cart was way too short to anything comfortably. The sawhorses shown were the first rendition made and were too short when the body was sitting upright. They were good and sturdy but needed to be mobile to aid in cleaning up the floor, or just moving around. The second set I made were just as heavy, but had casters installed to aid in moving the projects around. In hindsight, I would have put larger diameter casters to aid in moving around easier.

[bmorgil]

I like the way you use wood gm. It certainly makes for some very nice tools. I agree with you 100%. The better the tools, the more comfortable the work place, the better the Job.

[TJones]

You need to get a patented on those Bad Boys gm!!!

[gmwillys]

The price a wood and steel the last couple of years, not much of anything is getting built. I have it in the back of my mind to create a big enough rotisserie that can safely rotate the wagon body at least 90 degrees with an electric motor, but pricing out the material is proving to be out of reach for a reasonable price. Years ago, where I grew up there was an industrial salvage yard where you could pick up factory fixtures or jigs for pennies a pound. Dad built a rotisserie for his M151 for a hundred bucks.

[56willys]

I like those ideas, thanks Gm. I would totally build something like that. However I don't have the floor space to keep the tub layed down. If I did that would be great to have it up on stands. For now I have it on its side on some carts so i can move it around to work on. That's working okay for now. (Hopefully it will be back on the frame soon)

Progress has been slow but I did get the floor riser completely cut out. And a new piece ready, just need to drill a couple spot welds. Then I can get it welded tomorrow.

Also revealed some original yellow paint.

[56willys]

I rotisserie would be sweet! I've seen people make it out of two rotisserie engine stands. Which are pretty cheap used. But I don't think that would be strong enough for a wagon.

[Catlewis]

I use a small trailer for projects like that. Benefits are it can be easily moved, inside, outside, even trailered to another shop. Attached are some photos of a F350 cab I did a few years ago. Bolted the cab directly to the trailer.
11268112691127011271

[bmorgil]

Another great idea! Ingenuity at its best.

[gmwillys]

That's a good looking F350 cab!

I started off using a base of a roll around Genie lift that had a platform built on top for a flat surface. It worked well for moving heavy stuff around and putting bodies on even while on its side. I still keep my wagon frame on top of it to easily move it around in tight places, even with the drivetrain still installed.

[56willys]

That trailer setup is sweet. Would be great for heavy stuff like a truck or wagon
Luckily the cj tub is light enough my brother and I can carry it easily. Although that's with rust. I'm wondering how much heavier it will be with floors.

Last night I got one support brace welded in to make the floor riser. Today I'm working on another to go below it then I'll cover with sheet metal. It should be stronger than factory and alot cheaper than a correct panel. Once I get that finished I can base everything else off it.

Also had to repair the bottom of the inner fender. I got the drivers side done just need to finish passenger side.

[bmorgil]

You are making steady progress 56. You had a lot of rust there in the floor area. That's what usually happens. The drains get plugged in the floor and the tub fills up with water. The rest is the rust!

[gmwillys]

Looking great!

At engine hoist works great for setting tubs, especially if you end up by yourself.

[bmorgil]

I wish I would have seen you doing this long ago gm. I remember you showed this a few years ago. What a great way to use the engine hoist. I had mine sitting right there, and never realized it would perform like you are demonstrating. I keep calling muscle over for pizza and beer.

[Catlewis]

They're also great for installing full size pick-up bed & cabs!

[TJones]

and for loading up Shifter Carts to go play:cool::cool:


11285

[56willys]

I got the lower brace welded in for the floor riser. Then cut the drivers side floor pan out. I only had to cut a quarter of the perimeter then it fell out.

Flintstone mode engaged!!

This tub was very rusty, however the only patches on it have been cut out. There was one on the floor i just cut out and some channel on half the floor riser. So I don't have to work around anyone else's hack job.

[gmwillys]

It is definitely better to cut it back to good metal and start back with new, a lot less headaches that way.

An engine hoist is one of the most universal tools in my shop. When I lived in a colder climate, I would keep my snowmobile on a set of pallet racking four and a half feet off the floor. My first wife never could figure out how the sled ended up there during the warm months. I keep waiting for the cylinder to crap out so I can change it out for a two-stage pump ram, (pumps with the handle going up and down) or an air over hydraulic cylinder.

[bmorgil]

56' It is always best to cut out the old hack jobs and do it right. You don't have to graft into someone else's "ideas" that way!

I just replaced the ram on hoist gm. I didn't think of the two stage option. Dang it!

[gmwillys]

Bummer on the hydraulic cylinder Bmorgil. Northern tool has the double pump 3 ton for $100.00, and a double pump 8 ton for $150.00.

https://www.northerntool.com/products/strongway-3-ton-long-ram-hydraulic-jack-double-pump-clevis-base-46215
https://www.northerntool.com/products/strongway-8-ton-long-ram-hydraulic-jack-double-piston-clevis-base-46217

or for a bit more...

https://www.northerntool.com/products/strongway-8-ton-long-ram-air-hydraulic-jack-single-piston-clevis-base-46200

[bmorgil]

Arrhhhggg!!!! I actually bought a Strongway replacement from Northern, just not the dual action!

[51 CJ3]

The check valve in my hoist has started sticking a little. It acts like there isn’t any oil in it but it starts working if I tap on the pump a little. I was thinking about cleaning valve but an upgrade to a double pump sounds like a better option.

[gmwillys]

My hoist came from Northern just about 30 years ago. It has picked up more odds and ends than engines, but lots of engines too. Big blocks of all tastes, a few 6.2 diesels, and everything in between. The original ram looks sketchy, but is still holds and lifts well.

[51 CJ3]

I bought mine at NAPA around 2003. It sits folded up in the corner too much which is why the valve has gotten sticky. I have used it to lift a lot of things. I have even used it as a jack but I don’t think I would have thought to use it for a body swap. It’s never had an automotive engine on it.

[gmwillys]

I must of had a good fortune cookie when I bought mine. It sits folded up the vast majority of the time. The chrome on the ram is pretty much nonexistent, but not heavily pitted. I don't know why it is still functioning as well as it does.

[bmorgil]

It may get a little wet down there gm, but as you know the Northern weather will really raise heck with the things you leave sit. It sounds like a quality tool you have gm, it lasts!

[gmwillys]

It was a cheapy from Northern Hydraulics, maybe $225 new with an engine leveler that lasted one use before the screw jack galled. The lift spent almost 10 years exposed to salt and extreme temperature swings being in Minnesota. I'll chalk it up to just being lucky for a change. Now the ten-ton porta power that I bought off the Matco tool truck on the other hand, wasn't a good buy. I had it a couple of years before the pump crapped out on it. Now I have two air over hydraulic Porta-Power brand pumps that fixed that problem. High dollar doesn't always mean better.

[56willys]

Got my new KW catalog and both my jeeps are featured in it! I didn't win any of the prizes (there's always next year to order lockers) but I'm just excited to have flossy in the catalog! My Jeep is already getting famous!

[gmwillys]

Congratulations! I'm looking forward to getting my copy.

[56willys]

Today I decided that the transmission tunnel is just too far gone to reuse
Yes I could patch around it but that would probably require more work then it's worth. So I started making some panels to go in place. Far from being done but it's a solid start. I don't have a break or any type of fabrication tools. I just clamped the steel between 2 pieces of angle iron in a vise and hammered, test fit, hammered again until it fit.

Thanks GM. You'll like the catalog. It's a lot bigger and lots more stuff than last years. Definitely a nice catalog!

[bmorgil]

Nice catalog pics 56'!

The tunnel is looking great. It looks like your DIY brake is getting the job done.

[gmwillys]

The vise and angle iron just goes to prove that you don't need a bunch of fancy tools to get the job done. Well done on the transmission tunnel, it will turn out great!

[56willys]

Maybe someday I'll get a break, but until then it's not in the budget and the angle iron technique is working fine! I got the two pieces for the tunnel welded together. So hopefully I can install it soon.

I also just picked up some solder for my radiator today. Thanks for the help guys!

[gmwillys]

One of the guys on day shift is a wheeler and dealer for just about anything. He bought out a guy who was a local dirt track car builder who was going through a divorce. He bought three 30' enclosed trailers worth of equipment and parts. With the equipment was an old school 10' brake. He was going to just leave it behind because it was so heavy. Luckily his son told him of what they were worth. Now I need to work on him to sell it to me for what he gave for it, since it will no doubt be in his way.

[56willys]

Geez, you get that big of a break. Get some sheets of metal and make your own jeep tubs! Master those tig welding skills, and have a polished bare stainless steel flat fender.

(Okay maybe now I am getting crazy, haha!)

[56willys]

Starting to accumulate some patch panels. I started making the drivers floor pan tonight. Cutting out of that 16 guage sheet. Still needs some perfecting but hopefully it and the trans tunnel can get installed this weekend.

It looks better then the old one I cut out!

[bmorgil]

Clearly 56' and gm are burning the midnight oil!

You have something special going for sure. When your cruisin' in your ride, under your feet will be the metal you formed. It is a great deal of work to save and remake the old steel. I admire you all who take the time, pain and effort to keep as much of the steel as you can.

[51 CJ3]

Sheetmetal brakes are handy. Back when I could afford to buy welders, I also bought a 4 foot box and pan brake with radial fingers and a shear from Mittler Brothers. Very nice tools and much more complicated to operate properly than I imagined because my previous experience was using a borrowed 3-in-1 machine from Northern Tools. I have bent a few things in a vise and over a 2x4 as well.

[LarrBeard]

"... and have a polished bare stainless steel flat fender."

GMWillys' favorite Heep has a bare metal, brushed finish with clear coat for a finish - if I remember correctly. But - it leads the pack on cross country crawls.

[56willys]

Flossy finally has floors!!! I just got the drivers side floor pan in tonight. Also made a bar along the rocker. Give me something solid to spot weld the sheet metal to and will double as a rock slider. I'm so fired up!!! Finally get to see what my jeep will look like without seeing through the floor!!

I must be getting used to welding because the spot welds actually turned out pretty decent.

[gmwillys]

Looking good 56. Your plug welds look really good. Well done for sure, no more Flintstone mobile.

[bmorgil]

Oh man she is coming together now! Good looking floor 56. It is amazing how much metal actually dissolves over time with rust. It looks like out with the bad in with the new!

[LarrBeard]

Very nice little puddle welds!

[56willys]

Thank you so much guys!! I really appreciate the kind words! I'm happy with how it turned out for sure.

[56willys]

Just got in from the garage, as they say, late nights build legends.

I patched the hole in the rocker. It didn't look to rusted but I had to cut alot out to get to weld able steel. Got the patch in and it isn't to shabby for my first time flush wedding. Also started getting some floor braces welded in.

[bmorgil]

You are making steady progress for sure 56'. That baby is coming right along. I always thank my grinder when I weld!

[gmwillys]

Your patch panel came out great. You took your time and it shows. Well done 56.

[56willys]

Thank you guys!


I always thank my grinder when I weld! An angle grinders one of my most important tools on this build. (Second to this forum!) If it doesn't look right, hit it with the grinder and it looks great.

[56willys]

Finished welding the floor braces on the drivers side. Then flipped it over to start working on the passenger floor. In the meantime while we were rotating it, we set it down on the ground and i stood in my new floor pan for the first time. I'm pretty stoked because it held my eats way to much pizza self! Maybe it's stronger than i thought, haha!

All jokes aside I'm really starting to get prouder about this thing. Can't wait to drive it again.

[gmwillys]

A good angle grinder is worth it's weight in gold.

The floor and braces turned out great! You'll be ready to drive by the time the temperatures are fit for tours.

[bmorgil]

I agree with gm. You are moving along now 56'. You definitely have the "bug" to get er done!

[LarrBeard]

That is a good, stout floor and the passenger side should go faster now that you have some arc time behind you.

The little puddle welds look great - one of the ongoing comments is that Willys workers were paid piecework for spot welds....

[gmwillys]

That is a good, stout floor and the passenger side should go faster now that you have some arc time behind you.

The little puddle welds look great - one of the ongoing comments is that Willys workers were paid piecework for spot welds....

That is for sure LarrBeard. I was working on the floorboard replacement on the wagon and needed to remove a firewall mount. On a three-inch by three-inch square piece, there was twelve spot welds holding it together. Some of the spot welds overlapped each other.

[56willys]

I agree with gm. You are moving along now 56'. You definitely have the "bug" to get er done!

Since I had a year to drive it, I realized how much fun it is. So now I am super anxious to get back behind the wheel. After driving a willys, then being not able to drive it, really makes me wonder what I ever did when I didn't own a jeep. And how grateful I am to have Flossy. Man I want to drive it again, STUPID RUST!!!

[56willys]

That is a good, stout floor and the passenger side should go faster now that you have some arc time behind you.

The little puddle welds look great - one of the ongoing comments is that Willys workers were paid piecework for spot welds....

They did like spot welds at the factory, that's for sure!

It's actually nice that it's as rusty as it is. Because I haven't had to actually grind many spot welds yet, other than a couple, most are rusted enough I grab them with pliers. And a couple twists they break free. So the cutting spot welds issue is not that bad on the flossy project.

Spot welding is about the only weld technique I'm starting to get the hang of.

[56willys]

Getting the passenger side cut out. There wasn't much left. I have basically everything cleaned and ready to make some new panels. There was lots of rust on this rocker, that will a big patch. [Note, the first pic. Is before I cut anything. That's all that was left of the floor]

[bmorgil]

....... STUPID RUST!!!

I second that emotion!

It is looking real good 56'. I see your motivation now. The skin graph is going to be perfect for you.

[56willys]

Just finished one panel to fill in my homemade floor riser. I'll have to do the drivers side seperatly since I had already welded the toolbox to the tubing.

Edit; curse of the sideways pics stricks again!

[bmorgil]

You will be dropping that tub back on soon now 56'!

The sideways pic's appear to be a phone thing. On mine I discovered that I must hold my phone horizontally with the "Shoot Button" on the right. Anything else is sideways or upside down.

[gmwillys]

Looking good 56!

[56willys]

Just wondering, is there a serial number on the frame, on an early cj5? If there is I'd like to locate it before I start painting on my frame and potentially cover it without knowing.

[gmwillys]

I know on my '63 wagon, the serial number is stamped on the top of the passenger side frame rail, next to the upper shock mount. With Willys being Willys, the early CJ5 is located a little farther down on the frame rail;

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/144668/

[56willys]

Okay thanks GM. I had looked on the back by the shock and didnt find it. I never thought to look towards the front. Thank you again, I'll try to find it today.

[test1328]

Yeah, the photo in gmwillys link below is exactly where my 61 CJ5 is stamped as well.

[56willys]

Found the serial number today. In that exact spot the pic shows. It was really coverd in rust/grease so I never would have found it on my own. A little bit of wire brush and cleaner and it's legible. However it's not even close to matching the number on the tub. But knowing willys I wouldn't be surprised if that's factory.

[56willys]

Passenger floor installed. I got it welded all along the perimeter, so now I just need to ad some more supports. Being the second one it went alot easier than the drivers side. Now ill finally have a place to put my tools! It's so handy having a built in toolbox, but you can't use it because it's rotted away.

[gmwillys]

Glad you were able to find the serial number. Your floor is coming along nicely. The tool box is really handy. You'd be surprised on how much junk fits in there. I keep a tool set, fuel filters, points / condenser, spark plugs, and lead additive/ ethanol killer.

[test1328]

FYI, 56willys, the serial number stamped on my frame matches exactly to the serial number on the plate attached to the body. Of course, I know the history of my Jeep, so know that it all is original.

Nice job on the tub and welding!

[bmorgil]

I would say the look of the frame and tub indicate that's the tub that was put on at the factory. Most of the time you would expect that number to match. As we now know for fact, anything could have happened when inventory went low on the assembly line. Where there any clues as you tore into it that the tub had been swapped? That bottom was pretty rusted on her, I am thinking that was original.

[56willys]

Nothing really stood out that it has been swapped. Still had wood in the hat channels and factory rubber ish insulators between body and frame. I did find some green overspray on the frame from when they painted the tub. Which that paint job looks pretty old. I unscrewed the serial plate and there is original yellow paint under it, so that's correct to the tub. I'll have to double Check but I believe there is original paint behind where the fenders bolt on. Indicating that the green paint was put on when it was all together. All the wires were original and nothing cut/spliced.

Basically everything points toward it being original, and it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers have been different from day one. After all it is a willys.

[bmorgil]

I agree 56', it looks like you have "one of those"! An original with parts that aren't supposed to be there. These are my favorite ones. You know its original but, it defies logic.

There are few left anymore who worked in the production environment of the automotive world "back in the day". Anything went when money or production volume got tight. Things really started changing in the 70's when I got my start. Modern Quality Control methods would did not allow it. Things started changing slowly in 1954 when the Federal Vehicle Identification laws came into place. That set the stage for making sure things matched in the future.

[56willys]

I agree 56', it looks like you have "one of those"! An original with parts that aren't supposed to be there. These are my favorite ones. You know its original but, it defies.
Hey, it wouldn't be an old willys if everything was correct/up-to-modern standards! And that's all the more reason for me to like Flossy!

[56willys]

Transmission tunnel fitment is almost done. I had left lots of excess material on the floor pans to ensure I had enough to weld to. So a little trimming and the trans. tunnel fit great, it's only about half welded but enough that it's on!

[gmwillys]

You're becoming a real pro now. The tunnel came out great!

[56willys]

After a nice break from welding I am back to work on the willys. I just got back from a road trip across the country to Utah. With some friends of mine. Was gone for about 2 weeks. And saw tons of awesome things, we went to the Grand canyon, petrified forest, arches nat. park, and Zion nat park. Then did some offroading in Utah and saw the offroad games by matts ofroad recovery youtube channel. That's why I haven't posted any updates in awhile. But I'm back and plan to tear back into flossy.

[gmwillys]

Sounds like you had a great trip!

[bmorgil]

That is an experience for sure! I think a trip across the USA in a vehicle is a must for the American Bucket list.

[gmwillys]

Just in case anyone has put thought into taking your Willys across country, the link has a pretty good Father and Son journey.


http://www.ewillys.com/2022/09/28/the-qualls-cross-country-adventure/

[bmorgil]

Very cool trip there for sure gm! Wow what a "roughin' it across the US" those guys did. I think that's one for the memory banks.

[gmwillys]

Agreed. That may become one for the bucket list for the Heep....Or a compromise would be the Heep O' Wagon for the family to go along.

[56willys]

I had an amazing time, that's for sure. I had never been west farther than Toledo/Detroit before. So it was awesome to see so much new country. Driving a willys or any antique car (I think getting a model T would be fun) across the country would be awesome. However it was a long trip even in an RV that can handle 75 mph. That trip Gm shared is really neat. I liked the picture of them at the corner in Winslow AZ. Since that was one town we just drove through. I agree woth Bob, a trip across America is a must. I was amazed at how much different terrain and scenery there was. We even traveled on Route 66 for a long ways, so that was neat.

Driving flossy cross country would be fun, now that I've experienced it without roadside repairs. It would be fun to take flossy out and do some roadtripping/roadside repairs.

[56willys]

Getting back into rust repair, I got this patch welded on the rocker. I haven't ground the welds yet since my brother is painting his truck frame. But it's completely welded so it will just need some cleaning.

[bmorgil]

Another good looking skin graph there 56'!

[56willys]

Thanks Bob! I am still by no means good at welding, but I'm getting better! By the time Flossy is done i'll be a pro and the next Jeep will be a piece of cake!

[56willys]

Since there was still a truck getting painted on the other side of the garage, I still can't grind on Flossy so I decided to attempt a carb rebuild. The one on flossy runs great except for what I believe to be an accelerator pump issue. Where it sputters at mid range rpm. And sometimes falls flat during acceleration.

To get things straight I have never touched the internals of a carb before. And when first getting Flossy I was afraid to adjust the idle mixture for fear of destroying something. So yeah I have honestly no clue about this but even the smartest people started out not knowing anything. And I think this will be a great learning experience.

So I decided to work on the YF from my junkyard jeep. That way if I do something stupid, I can simply put Flossy's old carb back on and I know it will run. Then if this rebuild goes well I can perfect the original carb for flossy without fear of doing it wrong.

[51 CJ3]

Carbs are pretty easy. Just be careful to track the parts that come out. Not much worse than turning one upside down and wondering where those parts on the bench fell from. Having a good parts diagram can be handy.

[56willys]

Carbs are pretty easy. Just be careful to track the parts that come out. Not much worse than turning one upside down and wondering where those parts on the bench fell from. Having a good parts diagram can be handy.
Yea, this carb looks really simple. I am taking video/pictures as I tear it apart, plus KW has some pretty good diagrams online and there's always YouTube. So I should be able to figure it out.

[56willys]

I had this all wrote out but I must have hit the wrong button since the post isn't showing up. So here's take 2, and if it comes as a double post I apologize.

But anyways, I got the carb basically completely disassembled. All that's left is the low speed jet, which won't unthread because of corrosion. And the (I'll call it the cap that covers the accelerator pump) is stuck. I removed all four screws but it won't come out. I have it all sprayed with penetrating oil, so that might work. Then the check ball(?) last picture, is stuck. I removed the little spring retainer but whatever slides down to hold the ball is stuck. I'm not sure if it's just corroded or if I'm missing something.

[gmwillys]

I have found that dropping parts into Evaporust, (sold at Wally World in the auto section) will take most corrosion out of the nooks and crannies of the carb. You may have to apply a bit of heat with a plumber's torch, then follow up with PB Blaster or Kroil penetrating oil and repeat to aid in getting the low speed jet.