Resto-mod 1958 CJ5

[Jafopt]

I will be acquiring it in October. The body and interior are already custom restored just the way I want it. It runs with what I believe is the original engine. However I want to turn it into a daily driver. My desire is for it to look like a 70s vehicle under the hood but with significant speed and power abilities. No computer.
What are your thoughts on the engine, tranny, suspension, and possibly exhaust changes? In addition I live nearby a year lace who specializes in these (20 miles?).
Oh it’s also a manual 4WD.

This is my first build ever so be frank and direct with any criticism.

[gmwillys]

Welcome Jafopt!

You won't receive much criticism here. The great thing about a Jeep is that there is so many ways to customize your ride, with none being wrong when done well.

What would you like to run for a power plant? You could go with anything from a Kubota or Cummins diesel, a V6 or V8 gas of just about any make for a true 70s vibe with lots of chrome/aluminum accessories, or even a Wankel rotary engine. The options are wide open. With what I read from your post, I will assume that you are looking towards the V6 or V8 route with a classic carb and some classy headers. The next question would be to see what transmission and to see if you are wanting to retain the four wheel drive? With those questions answered, we can roll from there.

Also, please drop in some photos to see what you are working with, and the customizations made.

[bmorgil]

Like gm said, you can put a lot of different engines in there. You may want to stick with a V6 if you are looking for something that will be easy to fit with plenty of power. Check out TJ's CJ for a nice hot rod street Jeep CJ. The Suspension, Transfer Case, Transmission and Axles will have no problem with whatever you decide to use for an engine.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?1772-New-to-the-Forum/page108

[gmwillys]

...And don't forget JB's Overlanding rig if you want to stray completely off the reservation;

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2934-Is-That-A-Willys-Wagon-1956-Willys-Project/page01

[Jafopt]

...And don't forget JB's Overlanding rig if you want to stray completely off the reservation;

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2934-Is-That-A-Willys-Wagon-1956-Willys-Project/page01

When I attempt to look at some of the photos it says I'm not logged in or do not have permission to view the page. But i did just gain access to my account 5 minutes ago. So maybe some things still need to be done behind the scenes for my account.

[Jafopt]

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[Jafopt]

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[Jafopt]

I'm buying it off a close friend site unseen. But I have recent videos of him driving it around town. His dad restored 2 of them and gave one to each of his sons. According to the seller, the engine and trans need work.

Any links to similar builds are much appreciated. I am in contact with https://www.vintagejeepparts.com/ to do the mod. It's right down the road from my house. They say it's a short nose which limits my engine swap possibilities.

[56willys]

That looks like a really nice jeep. The short front cj5s are pretty tight for engine swaps. Although I've seen Ford 289 cid V8s, Chevy LS, and even a big block chevy swapped in one without an over abundance of custom work. A small Block ford 289, 302, etc. or a Small block Chevy should swap in easily. With lots of aftermarket parts available. The main difficulty would be drive shaft angle because of the short wheelbase. And maybe clutch linkage if you keep a manual.

[Jafopt]

That looks like a really nice jeep. The short front cj5s are pretty tight for engine swaps. Although I've seen Ford 289 cid V8s, Chevy LS, and even a big block chevy swapped in one without an over abundance of custom work. A small Block ford 289, 302, etc. or a Small block Chevy should swap in easily. With lots of aftermarket parts available. The main difficulty would be drive shaft angle because of the short wheelbase. And maybe clutch linkage if you keep a manual.

Definitely keeping the manual and 4WD. This will be my son's vehicle when he moves up to college. I bought a 2010 tacoma 6-speed just to teach him how to drive a stick shift. That way he won't tear up something much harder and more expensive to fix.

[bmorgil]

Way safer in college with the Tacoma, especially if it is a bucket seat two door standard cab with no center console.

I am definitely thinking a nice running V6 would be a great swap. You can only safely get so much power down in a short wheelbase high center vehicle that is not an off road racer. For a look outside the box consider a 60 degree V6. I ran one of the early Chevrolet 2.8's that later morphed into 3.9's I think. I had it in a Baja style S10. Bored to 2.9L, it made 350hp naturally aspirated. It was unique at the time and I was lucky to have a machine shop and top machinist right there. They are all around now. You need to find one for a rear wheel drive. The 60 degree V6 allows an enormous amount of room. It would fit well and you would still be able to get to everything in the engine house. A modern 60 degree with a turbo or better yet a low profile roots or a Centrifugal Supercharger would be the ticket! Hahah, now there's a thought.

Here's TJ's nice "Orange Crush" V6 Jeep.
https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?1772-New-to-the-Forum/page108

[Jafopt]

So next question is what is a price range you would expect pay for this restomod? How exactly does restomodding work?

[bmorgil]

Whenever you "mod" a vehicle, the value is in the eye of the purchaser. That is why most 'Mod's" are sold at auction where buyers can get a good look at the workmanship and style. If you were to put a value on it, you would start with what cost you have in it and what your labor is worth.

[LarrBeard]

In just about any restoration or resto-mod, you will never, financially, recover the cost of the job if you resell it. The value is in the project itself.

There is no way we can estimate what a resto-mod would cost. It depends on your local market, the mods you are making and how much work you can do yourself or get friends to help with.

Just one rough estimate - about 30% to 50% (or more) that you thought it would cost.

[Jafopt]

In just about any restoration or resto-mod, you will never, financially, recover the cost of the job if you resell it. The value is in the project itself.

There is no way we can estimate what a resto-mod would cost. It depends on your local market, the mods you are making and how much work you can do yourself or get friends to help with.

Just one rough estimate - about 30% to 50% (or more) that you thought it would cost.

Looking at engines so far I’m thinking the cost of parts will be near $15K. Resale value isn’t anything I’m considering. I have no skills to do anything on the project myself. I imagine labor would get it up to $30K.

[Jafopt]

Like gm said, you can put a lot of different engines in there. You may want to stick with a V6 if you are looking for something that will be easy to fit with plenty of power. Check out TJ's CJ for a nice hot rod street Jeep CJ. The Suspension, Transfer Case, Transmission and Axles will have no problem with whatever you decide to use for an engine.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?1772-New-to-the-Forum/page108

TJ seems like a great guy, being a Buckeye fan and all. I'd love to see a parts list (under the hood and suspension) and ask him what he thinks would be good in mine.

[Jafopt]

Way safer in college with the Tacoma, especially if it is a bucket seat two door standard cab with no center console.

I am definitely thinking a nice running V6 would be a great swap. You can only safely get so much power down in a short wheelbase high center vehicle that is not an off road racer. For a look outside the box consider a 60 degree V6. I ran one of the early Chevrolet 2.8's that later morphed into 3.9's I think. I had it in a Baja style S10. Bored to 2.9L, it made 350hp naturally aspirated. It was unique at the time and I was lucky to have a machine shop and top machinist right there. They are all around now. You need to find one for a rear wheel drive. The 60 degree V6 allows an enormous amount of room. It would fit well and you would still be able to get to everything in the engine house. A modern 60 degree with a turbo or better yet a low profile roots or a Centrifugal Supercharger would be the ticket! Hahah, now there's a thought.

Here's TJ's nice "Orange Crush" V6 Jeep.
https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?1772-New-to-the-Forum/page108

So the 60 degree V6 for RWD can also do 4WD? What trans would you recommend for that setup? And if turbo, etc, what suspension components? I’m all ears and since I haven’t paid yet I’ve got more money than sense.

[gmwillys]

The reasoning for the RWD for the selection of a 60-degree V6 is that there are two versions of the engine. A front wheel drive V6 is transverse mounted and is set up for that purpose. The rear wheel drive will be much easier to use for your purpose, because it is set up to work in your application without major modifications in how everything hooks up. It just saves you a boat load of money and time to start with a RWD variant. From there, your options open up again for what you may like to run, then also to what transfer case you would like. Advanced Adapters or Novack has a whole slew of options to what you could put together to make your driveline unite together.

[TJones]

First things first Welcome Jafopt!!!!
Where are you located in Ohio?
It might be a lot simpler to meet up and show and tell:D
I’m north of Akron a little.
That’s a Sweet and Very clean CJ-5 you are getting :rolleyes:
WOW not many left in that good of shape!!!

[bmorgil]

If you are serious, there are a few shops in the U.S. that will deliver your dream to you. Hogan Built in Arizona is an example of what I would consider one of the premium shops in the U.S.. It simply does not get any better than his work. You need to find a shop like this that can deliver your dream. Where are you located? If you are serious about it, you need to find a shop. Here is an example of in my opinion, one of the best. A recent build sold at auction for over a half a million dollars.

https://hoganbuilt.com/ (https://hoganbuilt.com/)

Known for their custom Chevrolet Blazers, this shop gives you an idea of who is out there building. You need to ask for a shop that will take on your project. Cost should not be your first question. Everyone does not have the skills, time or shop to build custom vehicles. It certainly doesn't mean those persons don't appreciate and drive them. I have worked with custom shops across the country. There are some premium shops out there. The best ones cost accordingly and take their time. In the end I have seen custom built vehicles like you are contemplating sell for $500,000 or more at auction. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The work required takes skill, sweat, engineering help, and expensive parts. The labor and skill are the most expensive.

[Jafopt]

First things first Welcome Jafopt!!!!
Where are you located in Ohio?
It might be a lot simpler to meet up and show and tell:D
I’m north of Akron a little.
That’s a Sweet and Very clean CJ-5 you are getting :rolleyes:
WOW not many left in that good of shape!!!

Originally I’m from Canal Fulton but now live in the little known Houston, TX part of Ohio. I’ll only be in town for 24 hours (Tallmadge) to get it loaded on a covered transport. After which the seller and I will be heading to the Penn State game in Columbus. Maybe we can meet up at his house Thursday-Friday 10/19-20?

[TJones]

Originally I’m from Canal Fulton but now live in the little known Houston, TX part of Ohio. I’ll only be in town for 24 hours (Tallmadge) to get it loaded on a covered transport. After which the seller and I will be heading to the Penn State game in Columbus. Maybe we can meet up at his house Thursday-Friday 10/19-20?

Sounds Good to me Jafpot
Just pm me when your in town!!!
Tallmadge is pretty close to me, I could probably be there in 10-15 minutes:(

[Jafopt]

Sounds perfect

[Jafopt]

The more I read through TJones resto mod posting, the more I think I should just leave it in Akron to have him and his cohorts do the work.

[bmorgil]

I think TJones could get it done for you..... if you bring enough of that money!

[gmwillys]

TJ has one heck of an eye for quality. His Jeep is absolutely stunning.

[56willys]

It sounds like you're thinking about a v6. But i saw this at a cruise-in last weekend and thought about your build. It looked to be a gpw body on what appeared to be a civilian jeep frame. Which isn't alot different compared to an early 5. If anything its tighter and harder to fit an engine. I believe the motor and trans mounts are the same from a flat fender to a 5. It had a small block chevy. With original T90 trans & Dana 18 T-case. Even stock axles and suspension. Which would be the same as yours. I never had a chance to talk to the owner to ask what kind of adapters and brackets etc. were used. I did like the idea to have a steel plate on the front of the engine going to the factory mounts on the frame. Which apeared to be the only motor mount. I think that design could be easily used for any engine.

[Jafopt]

Another question. Based on the pics, it looks like there may not be AC in TJ's vehicle. Is there a floor mounted vent? How hard would it be to fit AC into mine with an engine that fills my needs?

[TJones]

Jafopt no air in mine, there is a vent in the windshield though.

[Jafopt]

It sounds like you're thinking about a v6. But i saw this at a cruise-in last weekend and thought about your build. It looked to be a gpw body on what appeared to be a civilian jeep frame. Which isn't alot different compared to an early 5. If anything its tighter and harder to fit an engine. I believe the motor and trans mounts are the same from a flat fender to a 5. It had a small block chevy. With original T90 trans & Dana 18 T-case. Even stock axles and suspension. Which would be the same as yours. I never had a chance to talk to the owner to ask what kind of adapters and brackets etc. were used. I did like the idea to have a steel plate on the front of the engine going to the factory mounts on the frame. Which apeared to be the only motor mount. I think that design could be easily used for any engine.

Thank you!

[TJones]

Novak adapters can configure almost any motor to Tranny combo you can imagine in your build Jaftop!!

https://www.novak-adapt.com

[Jafopt]

Way safer in college with the Tacoma, especially if it is a bucket seat two door standard cab with no center console.

I am definitely thinking a nice running V6 would be a great swap. You can only safely get so much power down in a short wheelbase high center vehicle that is not an off road racer. For a look outside the box consider a 60 degree V6. I ran one of the early Chevrolet 2.8's that later morphed into 3.9's I think. I had it in a Baja style S10. Bored to 2.9L, it made 350hp naturally aspirated. It was unique at the time and I was lucky to have a machine shop and top machinist right there. They are all around now. You need to find one for a rear wheel drive. The 60 degree V6 allows an enormous amount of room. It would fit well and you would still be able to get to everything in the engine house. A modern 60 degree with a turbo or better yet a low profile roots or a Centrifugal Supercharger would be the ticket! Hahah, now there's a thought.

Here's TJ's nice "Orange Crush" V6 Jeep.
https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?1772-New-to-the-Forum/page108

I'm having a rough time finding a 60 degree V6 online for sale. Is it called something else?

[bmorgil]

In the 60 Degree, you are looking for the GM 3.4L 60 Degree V6. They were put in many, many F Body GM cars (Camaro / Firebird). In the F Body, they are rear wheel drive. You could also find a 60 Degree V6 in S10 pickup trucks. Look for a 2 wheel drive.

https://www.jegs.com/i/ATK-Engines/059/DCC9/10002/-1

[Jafopt]

Do you think that will be too large for my small engine compartment?

[bmorgil]

As I was saying earlier, the 60 degree is a very small package. I cant think of a smaller V6 package. The 60 degree engine is very upright. This leaves a lot of room on the sides.

[TJones]

Like bmorgil is saying, the Chevy 3.4 and the Buick V-6’s fit in the CJ-5’s pretty nice.
I put a 4.1L 252ci Buick in mine (only bc I’ve had Buick Motors in the past) and it has more power than you can use, especially with a short wheel base and narrow gauge vehicle!!
Like he said make sure it’s for a rear wheel drive vehicle Only which ever direction you decide to go.

[bmorgil]

The 2.8L (173 ci) GM 60 Degree V6 was also used from '84 to '86 in Cherokees, and in '86 Comanches. It is identical to the 3.4L, just less cubic inches. It is the first version of the 60 Degree motor. I would stick with the newer 3.4L.

[Jafopt]

Like bmorgil is saying, the Chevy 3.4 and the Buick V-6’s fit in the CJ-5’s pretty nice.
I put a 4.1L 252ci Buick in mine (only bc I’ve had Buick Motors in the past) and it has more power than you can use, especially with a short wheel base and narrow gauge vehicle!!
Like he said make sure it’s for a rear wheel drive vehicle Only which ever direction you decide to go.

I spoke with a guy at Novak and he didn't seem to have as much knowledge as the guys here. He said I couldn't get a 5 speed into such a short vehicle. He suggested getting an overdrive to put on the transfer case with a separate lever to shift it.

With the Buick or the Chevy 3.4L what would I be looking at parts wise to get it to hit 90Mph? For example: engine XYZ (manual) transmission, ring and pinion axle sets, transfer case.

[bmorgil]

I don"t know about the 5 speed, I would do it like TJ did. Use the hydraulic GM clutch and a Novak transmission adapter to the T90, and let it ride.

The speed you are going to go can be calculated mathematically. http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculate%20HP%20For%20Speed.php

The gear ratios depend on several variables. https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2283-How-fast-is-the-RPM-at-speed-or-the-speed-at-RPM

The best way to do it is with this overdrive. https://www.kaiserwillys.com/products/replacement-saturn-overdrive/?sku=SATURN-26-teeth

I would not go 90 mph in a 1958 Jeep CJ.

[Jafopt]

I don"t know about the 5 speed, I would do it like TJ did. Use the hydraulic GM clutch and a Novak transmission adapter to the T90, and let it ride.

The speed you are going to go can be calculated mathematically. http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculate%20HP%20For%20Speed.php

The gear ratios depend on several variables. https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys.com/showthread.php?2283-How-fast-is-the-RPM-at-speed-or-the-speed-at-RPM

The best way to do it is with this overdrive. https://www.kaiserwillys.com/products/replacement-saturn-overdrive/?sku=SATURN-26-teeth

I would not go 90 mph in a 1958 Jeep CJ.


Thank you. I need it to be a daily driver, able to hit highway speeds, which in Houston and Columbus are comfortable at 90. Would you go 80 in one?

[LarrBeard]

I would not go over 60 in a 1958 Jeep, and then only in rare and exceptional circumstances. That little short wheelbase and quick turning radius combine to make it a really unstable vehicle at those kind of highway speeds.

[bmorgil]

When designing a vehicle, the drivers safety is the first function of every component.

To answer your question, no I would not recommend anyone operate any vehicle above the speed it was designed for. Vehicles designed to protect a driver at highway speeds are constantly evolving. Classic vehicles need to run at classic speeds when on the highway. If you want to go fast in a Jeep CJ, it needs to be on a track with safety close by and a waiver signing off of all liability.

No one would likely survive a crash in a 1958 CJ5 at 90. The probability of a crash is very high. Nothing in that vehicle was intended to go that fast.

[56willys]

Bmorgil and larrbeard are exactly right. Nothing in an old jeep is safe. I've only driven my 56 cj5 a little bit and have already confirmed this. Now my jeep is pretty well built and one of the better handling ones I've seen. I have good modern tires with wider wheels to help stability. I have brand new tie rods and ooe of the tightest old jeep steering boxes I've seen. But still at 35 mph it rides like a cadillac. At 45 you better pay attention because it wants to use both lanes even though the wheels are straight. And 50 feels like the absolute sketchiest 100 mph you've ever witnessed. 80 or 90 would be flat out SKETCHY. Now there are some modifications you can do to improve all this. Im sure someone here will now more about this. you can convert to electric power steering from i believe a early 2000s Toyota. And you can convert to disc brakes. Both things would improve handling a lot. But I still would not recommend going 80 mph. 60 - 65 could be reasonable.

[TJones]

I would not go over 60 in a 1958 Jeep, and then only in rare and exceptional circumstances. That little short wheelbase and quick turning radius combine to make it a really unstable vehicle at those kind of highway speeds.

When I heard you wanted to do 90 or 95 I cringed:(:(:(
I used to race jeeps in my younger days and I had a blown Buick V6 with over 600hp, we drag raced on a 300’ track and I’m here to tell with all the safety equipment in under the sun at 300’ some of the Big Boys would lose control at the 200-250’ mark at 90-95 mph and I’m here to tell you they would take FLIGHT and the result was ugly, not deadly bc of the safety equipment that they made us use.
So if your thinking of building a CJ5 that’ll do 90-95 on the expressway in Houston or Columbus it’s a death wish for the driver, like Larrbeard said a short wheelbase, sharp turning radius and to add to it the light weight and narrow guide would be dangerous.
What you’re thinking of is like a go kart with 200-300 hp that’s not 2”s off the ground but 20-30”s off the ground.
So No Freaking Way would I go 80 in one, if a cat ran out in front of you at 80 your first response would be to turn and that’s when it will take FLIGHT sideways and roll then roll some more then roll some more until everything is flung clear out of it!!!

[bmorgil]

56willys has given some good tips on how to make it feel much better at speed. Notice he is telling you it still isn't handling like a modern vehicle. I would at least perform these upgrades if I was even going out on the highway on a regular basis. In addition to those suggestions, a well designed roll bar welded to the frame would be mandatory. The driver must stay restrained in the seat, inside the roll cage.

About 45-50 MAX is the speed your Jeep was designed for. Stock, they require 100% attention at 50 mph.

[Jafopt]

56willys has given some good tips on how to make it feel much better at speed. Notice he is telling you it still isn't handling like a modern vehicle. I would at least perform these upgrades if I was even going out on the highway on a regular basis. In addition to those suggestions, a well designed roll bar welded to the frame would be mandatory. The driver must stay restrained in the seat, inside the roll cage.

About 45-50 MAX is the speed your Jeep was designed for. Stock, they require 100% attention at 50 mph.

Thank you everyone

[56willys]

Been thinking about your quest for a high speed willys. One thing i noticed driving mine around last weekend. It really handles quite well. Untill you hit a bump or pothole, then your sideways, shaking, and almost in the ditch. The main downfall about these jeeps other than the short wheelbase (not much you can do about that without a LOT of welding) Is the steering system is horrible. likely the cause for wandering, wobbling, and the afore mentioned bumpsteer. There is some tricks you could do to improve this. I've heard of a lot of people swap in a saginaw steering setup from a 1976-86 CJ. This would get you a far superior steering box thats actually designed for highway speeds. And eliminates the complex factory ross system with tons of seperate parts and joints that get loose and sloppy. This setup would be alot safer even at low speeds. and I think would really help keep that jeep on the road. Then if you wanted to have power steering. You could get a saginaw box with hydraulic assist. But you'd have to have a pump on the engine and run lines. Which wouldn't be a huge deal but to be simpler. Get an electric assist unit from a 2009-13 toyota. That just splices in to your steering colum and has 3 wires that need power. This could be easily found on ebay or at a junkyard.
Heres some videos I found explaining this process.
Saginaw steering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRD50RHsxZA&t=772s
Electric assist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUlt03cuzyA&t=1427s