1954 CJ3B - Project

[AJ-MJ]

Day 1 - I pulled the spark plugs and all 4 were dry, black and sooty. I guess it was running rich 30 years ago. ;) Added Marvel Mystery Oil. Then I started taking off the tow bar, CB, speakers and rear spare tire carrier. I think I cut off about half the screws & bolts I removed. Vacuumed up a lot mouse stuff etc.

[gmwillys]

black soot is much better than coolant/rust. As you imply, a carb adjustment is much easier than the alternative.

[56willys]

Those rusty bolt gremlins seem to strike on everything. Nothing worse then making a five minute job take five hours because a bolt broke off. Firm believer in never-seize.

I've heard good things about mystery oil, however if it doesn't work, I used some automatic trans fluid in my spare motor. And it seemed to work well. I would check your oil pump before trying to turn it over too much. The pump on mine was seized and when I got the cam to turn over it stripped the gear. Just a couple things to be mindfull of.

Glad to see your back working on the project, looking forward to updates!

[bmorgil]

Good stuff there 56'. The oil pump, what a disaster!

AJ-MJ Black soot on the plugs is as gm said, much better than anything else. I would say probably idling with the choke on before she got shut down the last time. That said, I have yet to pour gas into a 30 year old carb and have it function as designed. But, miracles never cease! That said, I have had a few motors that set for a long time, that with a carb rebuild ran just like the day they shut down.

[AJ-MJ]

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement. I am taking a little R&R and plan to get back after the jeep on Tuesday. I'll post some pictures when I figure that out. THANKS AGAIN!

[AJ-MJ]

Here is a couple of pictures of the 3B

[AJ-MJ]

I know there is a lot of discussion about what color is the engine. WELL, I got a blue one

[AJ-MJ]

Any suggestion on reading the numbers... I guess when I pull the radiator I might be able to see it a little better.

[AJ-MJ]

A couple more observations:
The oil was right at the full mark, dark but felt normal
No coolant in radiator
No gas in the gas tank
Every thing that is rubber is hard and brittle
There is a bolt on the fender at the battery. Did 3B have a battery hold down?

[gmwillys]

The oil is a good sign. Hopefully the fuel and coolant were drained to prevent fuel getting old and the coolant from being under strength. Rubber hoses are cheap to replace compared to leaking fuel or coolant on the ground.

The battery hold down should mount to the battery tray with two J hooks, but even our Heep has a wing nut on the inside of the fender well, but it doesn't align with the battery. The MB had a strap that mounted to the fender, but that's the only one I knew for sure.

[bmorgil]

Having the rubber dry up is the norm AJ-MJ. Even some of the best "stored" vintage vehicles will fall prey to that. No gas in the tank might mean it was drained and possibly the carb was run dry. If so, you never know, it may just surprise you and start right up. As gm said, yes it had a battery hold down.

That is a nice looking Jeep! I love the color. The engine stamp serial number can be very lightly struck. If the block has been rebuilt the numbers may have been "milled" off. once you get the radiator out it might be easier to see. gm uses Harbor Freight Nylon Flapper Wheels" with great results. I think they will work well to clean the numbers without destroying them.

[LarrBeard]

Your iteration of the F-134 has the closed crankcase vent on the exhaust valve cover with the "PCV" valve tied back to the vacuum line and a hose on the intake valve cover. Some iterations just had an open road tube for a crankcase vent..

[bmorgil]

The top looks like it is in excellent condition. Who made the top?

Is that a 72' El Camino setting next to it?

[AJ-MJ]

The top looks like it is in excellent condition. Who made the top?

Is that a 72' El Camino setting next to it?

I helped (?) ;) my dad put the top on the the jeep when I was probably about 8 years old. I think I held the screws, screw drive and drill when he when he needed something I handed it to him. The top either came from Sears or J C Whitney. I am not sure. The top saved the interior. It is original and in fair to good shape. It was painted with that interior vinyl paint. Any suggestion on the best chemical to take that stuff off would be appreciated.

The second project is a 82 Caballero (GMC version of the El Camino) I may need some small block Chey help too, LOL!

[bmorgil]

That makes that one very special top! We can certainly help you with a SBC!

[gmwillys]

The best thing I found to remove paint from darn near anything are the abrasive nylon brushes sold by Horrible Freight. Bmorgil referred to these brushes earlier in discussion with finding the serial number on the block.

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-80-grit-nylon-abrasive-wheel-with-14-in-shank-60325.html?_br_psugg_q=nylon+abrasive+wheel

Bmorgil can definitely help you with a small block Chev. Besides being Dr. Dana, he knows his way through engines too!

[AJ-MJ]

I apologize. I may not have made myself clear, when I was asking about paint removal, I was referring to the vinyl upholstery paint sprayed on the seat covers. I was trying to figure out if acetone, lacquer thinner, or denatured alcohol or some other chemical would remove the upholstery spray. ANY SUGGESTIONS on what to use or what not to use. THANKS!

[Mike P]

That’s a great looking B!

[gmwillys]

My apologies for misunderstanding the question. Mineral spirits have been used successfully to pull the dye/paint from the vinyl upholstery.

[AJ-MJ]

My apologies for misunderstanding the question. Mineral spirits have been used successfully to pull the dye/paint from the vinyl upholstery.

THANKS! I will give that a try.

[bmorgil]

I would try gm's suggestion with mineral spirits. You have to be careful you don't dry the material up and cause it to crack. Removing the dye or color could prove to be difficult. Depending on what was used to color the upholstery, it could be dye or actual paint. I would call or email one of the Upholstery color manufactures like SEM and ask them what they think. I believe your best bet will be to re-dye them another color right over the top f the old color.

[AJ-MJ]

Today, I put a socket on the crank bolt and was very happy when it turned with almost no effort. Then it just stopped! I then went counterclockwise and it stopped. I turned it back and forth several times and each time it stopped at certain point. I put just a little pressure with a half inch ratchet when I stopped in either direction, but it is a solid stop. I then marked the socket and it would make a full rotation and on the second rotation it would stop at 11 o’clock. Any suggestions?

[bmorgil]

AJ-MJ, assuming you have an F-Head in the 3B, it sounds like a valve is stuck open. Pull the valve cover and look for a valve that is stuck down or a broken valve spring that is allowing a valve to drop. It could also be a chunk of carbon in the cylinder. If it is a valve stuck down you don't want to force it. If all looks good with the valves, Pull the plugs and check the electrodes for physical damage.

For various reasons cam timing could be so far off a valve is open at the wrong time or, the cam chain or gear is broken and the valves are not moving out of the way. Let us know what you find.

[AJ-MJ]

I poured a quart plus of ATF in the spark plug holes. I plan to let it sit over the week end. Sunday or Monday I will cut the fan belt off and remove the starter and generator (just for good measure). Then I will follow your suggestion. When you said valve cover are you saying the the cover on the top of the engine or the exhaust valve on the side of the engine.

[bmorgil]

The cover on the top. You have 4 overhead intake valves on the F-Head and 4 in the block exhaust valves. When you pull the top cover you will be able to see the valve stems and springs. As you rotate the engine you should see the intake valves go up and down. If they are moving, look for one that is not fully closing.

[AJ-MJ]

The cover on the top. You have 4 overhead intake valves on the F-Head and 4 in the block exhaust valves. When you pull the top cover you will be able to see the valve stems and springs. As you rotate the engine you should see the intake valves go up and down. If they are moving, look for one that is not fully closing.

THANKS SO MUCH!!! I pulled the cover off and sprayed penetrating oil on the springs and let is soak down the stems. I did not try to turn the engine to see the valves moving. BUT I did pull the Service Manual and I see exactly what you are saying. Thanks Again!

[LarrBeard]

You are indeed a wise man to take things slowly and cautiously.

The little 134 CID engines can, in most cases, be turned over by hand with just the tension of the fan belt and turning the fan. When Bubba puts the socket and the breaker bar on the crank bolt and decides; "I'll move that sucker", internal damage is the usual result.

Take your time and find out what's stuck - with luck it can be fixed pretty easily.

Keep us informed as to what's going on.

[AJ-MJ]

GOOD NEWS!!! The engine is not seized up! WOOHOO!
I am only turning the crank bolt with a 1/2" ratchet so not to put too much pressure on it. Today when I turned the engine the stop was not as solid of a stop. If that makes sense? I Put a little pressure and it moved just a little. I went counterclockwise and did the same thing. After several back and forth I got past the stopping point. I have made a lot of revolutions and it is still tight but will spin with the ratchet.

[bmorgil]

Sounds like progress AJ-MJ!

[gmwillys]

Yep, sounds like you had a rust ridge on one cylinder, but with your ATF in the cylinder, it has cleaned up enough to pass by it. That hopefully will be your biggest hurdle to cross.

[AJ-MJ]

I worked on the Jeep this afternoon. I removed the grill, and radiator. I am sure it is normal practice to fight the rust, paint and undercoating on the fenders to get bolts removed. What a pain in the butt though. It did have about a gallon of antifreeze in radiator. It was mostly green and slick. I then cleaned up the engine number. It read “RMD 42411”… I am 100% sure on the numbers… The letters I am 95% sure… It just seemed like an odd combination compared to numbers typically starting with 4J. Anyone have any thoughts on the engine number or the RMD?

[gmwillys]

The RMD should stand for remanufactured. On our 2A L134, there is not a real noticeable serial number stamped above the water pump because it had been surface decked, whittling away the original factory stamping. I did find the remanufacture tag when I pulled the generator a couple of weeks back. Now, with that being said, did the remanufacture take the original serial number and put in the prefix RMD before the original serial number on yours? The 42411 should put it as a later '58 F head serial number range.

[AJ-MJ]

Thanks, that makes sense to me because the RMD is very faint compared to the numbers. I just don't know the original history of the Jeep and the probable engine rebuild. I do appreciate all the knowledge and expertise you guys have and share. NOTE TO SELF: Buy stock in penetrating oil company.

[LarrBeard]

Kroil , when it really needs to come apart

[gmwillys]

Agreed in Kroil. It's expensive, so I use it in extreme circumstances, where PB Blaster is the run of the mill go to.

[bmorgil]

We use Kroil here also. It is expensive but, it is very good at removing residue and leaving behind a clean oiled surface. We use it when assembling engines, it is used exclusively to clean the bores. I as well as my machinist have used it for a long time. The story is it was originally a mix of ATF and Kerosene. Probably true originally! ATF is loaded with detergent, ant-corrosives. As LarrBeard knows I am sure, awesome stuff in the gun room and the machine shop.

[AJ-MJ]

I have been taking care of some family business for the last few days so little time was spent working on the jeep. I did remove the carburetor and plan to send that off for rebuild. I removed the gas tank and will have it refurbished locally. I will also take the GMC Caballero radiator, jeep radiator and heater core. The floor under the gas tank is in pretty bad shape with several sheet metal patches screwed down. There are only remnants of the hat channel under the jeep. The good news is that the seats are in good shape and the floor behind the seats to the tailgate seems pretty solid. I guess I will find out more when I start cleaning that up later. The passenger side floor boards are in better condition however the bottom of the tool box is really rotted out.

[LarrBeard]

You have not described anything there that can't be fixed with some cutting, welding, bending, knuckle bustin' and maybe cussin'.

(TJones would add sitting on the 5-gallon bucket with a Marlboro and a Black and Tan or two). This sounds like a typical Jeep rebuild so far.

Good luck and keep us informed.

[bmorgil]

Like LarrBeard is alluding to MJ-AJ, sounds like the standard places we see trouble. The rain and what not settles down on the floor and it goes first. All the metal is available and as gmwillys and a few others on this web site will show you, you can reconstruct some of the worst things you will see! The seats are worth a lot and having the back pan in good shape is a sign it really didn't get that bad.

[AJ-MJ]

I believe the seats are in good condition because of the top keeping the rain out and I think the floor boards are rusted out from underneath the jeep. Thanks for the encouragement. I need all the help I can get! The other day the CFO, aka the wife, challenged my priorities so I set up a white board for a “TO DO LIST”. As we all know wives are always right. I check things off and date them for us. It does help because when that last bolt is soaking with penetrating oil, I can focus on the next item(s) on the list. Last, night after supper she says, “You didn’t get anything checked off your list today”. I replied, “Right, you don’t get partial credit”. So with that said, I didn’t start the engine first. I did get it unseized. Therefore, I decided to get clean gas and spark first… But I then veered off to get the cooling system in order. But you got to replace all those dang oil hoses too. That’s how the ball bounces, I guess. The CFO did acquire every size Ziploc bag for parts. LOL! I just made my third K-W parts order. I decided after further inspection of the fuel tank & lines, I decide to replace the tank, along with all the steel lines. The carburetor gets shipped to Rick at “Old Jeep Carbs”, hopefully today. If I can get that last metal hose off the GMC's radiator over the weekend, I’ll get the radiators checked out. Oh, the wife asks: what is that new smell in the garage so I reply; I think its “Liquid Wrench” honey, Oh that’s nice she says…. “IT”S ALL GOOD!”

[test1328]

You're doing good AJ! The white board list is a good idea but would just annoy me, so I just keep plugging along as best I can. I don't mention the costs of all the orders I make with KW to my wife. She'd probably flip her lid if she knew. She takes care of the finances, so she knows, but she just chalks it up to "car stuff" so I don't think she realizes just how much $ is going towards the Jeep. I wish I could spend more time working on my CJ, but summer time seems to be devoted to baseball and taking care of my yard, painting the shop, etc. With two boys playing college baseball, it seems all of my free time is spent at the baseball field. Of course, if I was retired, I'd have more time to play, but I've still got another ten years or so (hopefully). PS. Glad your wife likes the smell of Liquid Wrench!

[LarrBeard]

"Glad your wife likes the smell of Liquid Wrench!"

Liquid Wrench, Kroil and Hoppes No.9 - real man colognes

[bmorgil]

I think your on to something Larry.....

https://wicked-good.co/products/motor-oil

[gmwillys]

Yep, Larrbeard has it about summed up.

The best smelling penetration juice was sold by our local MAC tool dealers. I haven't found it on the market since anywhere. The name of was Howie's, and it was soy bean based. It smelled good, and didn't even taste half bad too. I would rate it up real close to Kroil. It worked fantastic on salt truck mechanisms and hardware.

[bmorgil]

The name of was Howie's, and it was soy bean based. It smelled good, and didn't even taste half bad too

Get confused on the labels gm? Howe's... Jim Beam... Billy's bottle... ya close enough!

[gmwillys]

Yep, it could be a conglomeration of possibilities.... I did find it on MAC Tool's website under Howe's Multi-purpose lubrication. I knew I wasn't too crazy. It is out of stock and may be no longer made.

https://www.mactools.com/products/ac90ba53-e83c-4e7d-812e-a555013a2dde?_pos=1&_sid=57f24af41&_ss=r

[test1328]

"Glad your wife likes the smell of Liquid Wrench!"

Liquid Wrench, Kroil and Hoppes No.9 - real man colognes

I'm right there with you, Larry. Hoppes No. 9 is what I grew up on. Too bad it doesn't smell like it used to in the old days. It still has a smell to it, but not quite like it used to be. That's the other thing that the CJ takes me away from, and that is shooting/reloading. But, that is the one thing that keeps me motivated on the CJ: I want to take the ol' girl hunting just one more time before I'm too old to go. Unfortunately, there are just too many things to do and not enough time to do them all.

[AJ-MJ]

A couple weeks ago, I carried the 3B’s radiator to a local radiator repair shop. Matt has over 50 years’ experience and has no plans to retire because he loves what he’s doing. He said the radiator had been repaired before and not very well. Based on the severity of the damage, he isn’t going to mess with it because he can’t guarantee it. This isn’t the news I was hoping for but that’s life. So what are my options? Is there any affordable NOS available? Are there any radiator suppliers/dealers I should avoid?

[bmorgil]

I have a Champion in mine. It is not a direct fit but, it goes in with a little work. The Aluminum ones are the way to go if you are not looking for an original. Whatever you do make sure the fan shroud is fitted in and functional. You have to pull sufficient air through the radiator at low or no speed. The low idle speed and "marginal" original fan need a little help by making sure the intake air from the fan is drawn through the radiator when the vehicle is not moving. The Champion radiator I have is small in capacity compared to the large original brass/copper core radiator. It needs the shroud for sure.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/products/all-aluminum-radiator-assembly-usa-made-fits-46-64-cj-3a-3b/