Virtual Willys MB

Hello Everyone,

I'm newly retired from an IT job. In the last year, my hobbies have changed quite a bit. I was planning to build electric guitars and after 7 builds in 8 years, I decide to quit woodworking. First for the noise and saw dust, second for the space since I'm planning to move in a smaller house, third, how many guitars a bad player really needs. So I sold everything and got a 3D printer. I'm really happy with my choice. Makes little noise and fits in a corner of my desk. For me, the fun of 3D printing is to be able to design my own stuff and print it to validate that everything works fine. It's a rapid prototype platform.

My love for the Willys Jeeps comes from watching MASH with my father and then with my son. It reminds me of great family time. Designing a Willys was therefore a natural choice, because of my attachment to the television series and that it is a "relatively simple" design. I chose the WW2 model because there seems to be more information available for it.

This will be my first car design from scratch. I will learn a great deal and curse like us French Canadians are well known for.

My goals are to render the Willys MB as close as the original as possible. I will digress from the original to accommodate the 3D printing process. I also wish to make it so I can scale it by changing a few parameters. This will complicate my design a lot as everything will need to be define properly. I'm not sure if I will be able to meet that goal.

This will be a long thread. I'd say it should take at least 6 months to get to the final design.

Enough chit chat, let's start.

First thing i did was to insert blueprint canvas in my design software Fusion 360

Ive inserted a right, top back and frame images.

Attachment 6568

Here's the right view.

Attachment 6569

From that view I designed the frame and extrude it. You only see half of the frame as I plan to use the mirror command to generate the other half

Attachment 6570

I plan to validate early on that the design is sound.

Here is the first print out of the frame so far

Attachment 6571

Some assembly is required since the frame is too long to be printed on my printer's bed

Attachment 6572

Here is the whole thing so far assembled

Attachment 6573

I think I need to revise the front part of the frame. I don't think that it should lift up like this, but some pictures I saw has this but I have problems figuring out how the triangular bumper bracket will fit.

Attachment 6574

I've never seen a Willys close enough, so I'm working from plans, video and pictures.

Your feedback will be greatly appreciated.

That is fascinating. That looks like a lot of fun. There are some other crossmembers that go in there. The jackstands are neat too. I know we are all looking forward to the progress on this.

Interesting project.

What scale are you building this in??


* like the 3D printed jack stands!!

I believe he said 1/10.

Thanks Guys,

Working on the other crossmembers this morning.

Yes the chosen scale is 1/10 but if all goes well, I will be able to do whatever scale by the change of a single parameter.

Yeah, I would have to have a set of jack stands as well, then it would really look like our 2A in its present form.

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Originally Posted by gmwillys

Yeah, I would have to have a set of jack stands as well, then it would really look like our 2A in its present form.

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:)

Made some progress on the frame.

Made the front of the frame flat. Replaced the front flat crossmember with a tubular one. Created the two other crossmembers.

Attachment 6577

next, the bumpers

Oh my God I love this! Fascinating to say the least. Here is a frame shot for you. As you go along we may be able to provide quite a few actual shots for the detail if it will help. If it is a Military Frame it needs the machine gun mount. gmwillys posted some pictures of one somewhere.

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Originally Posted by bmorgil

Oh my God I love this! Fascinating to say the least. Here is a frame shot for you. As you go along we may be able to provide quite a few actual shots for the detail if it will help. If it is a Military Frame it needs the machine gun mount. gmwillys posted some pictures of one somewhere.

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Thanks BMorgil, the pictures will be very helpful. I will include the gun mount

This is an M38 frame with the machine gun mount. The mount didn't change much from the MB to M38 all the way to the M38A1

Thanks gmwillys, I added the gun mounting plate based on your picture.

When I compare your picture and my design it seems the middle crossmember is too far from the rear crossmember.

Attachment 6584

46.5mm * 10 (1/10 scale) = 465mm which is roughly 18.25in between the two crossmembers. Does it make sense?

I'm using this blueprint as a reference

Attachment 6585

BB, I think this is so cool. We have this type of equipment where I work. I have a coworker that has a machine as well. I have to show him this.

Cool Project

Chuck

This is fantastic! Thank you for sharing. Some random thoughts...

If you're asking for creative input, do you think it may want for a nod to original? Are you going for look or function or originality? Input might be, first, a touch of mud, plants wedged in the rust or uneven paint, what clothing for the warriors, a dog with a vest, somewhere closer to the final product? Second, we are often reminded never was it made exactly to blueprint. That never happened. An odd part that 'fits' is put in somewhere along the line. Would you consider printing up a variant part from another blueprint (fordvswillys) and make it fit? Third, a thing I saw most recently was a bar they put on the front bumper, in the field but before deployment, a vertical bar higher than the window. That defeated wires strung across the road meant by the enemy to decapitate the driver. Doesn't have to be that part in particular, but could it use some historically accurate modifications beyond blueprint at your pleasure to be truer to original? Fourth, there's a reason to use various grades of metals, some parts are weight bearing. Hate to see this thing sagging once you put in a kill devil engine! Worth thinking about, as I'm sure you are doing. And last, I read on a model building site that the jigs are required to keep square are also part of the model building process. Will be interesting to see what jigs you come up with along the way!

All off-the-shelf comments are meant to be supportive and helpful - this thing is great, and I'm thrilled like everyone watching you make it happen!!

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Originally Posted by cmanderson79

BB, I think this is so cool. We have this type of equipment where I work. I have a coworker that has a machine as well. I have to show him this.

Cool Project

Chuck

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Thanks Chuck, I'm sure having a lot of fun with this project.

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

This is fantastic! Thank you for sharing.

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Thanks 5JeepsAz, it's a pleasure to share my project and it's a greater pleasure to feel the welcome and support of this group of people. Seing the real thing being restored and brought back to life by this group is hearth warming.

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

If you're asking for creative input, do you think it may want for a nod to original? Are you going for look or function or originality? Input might be, first, a touch of mud, plants wedged in the rust or uneven paint, what clothing for the warriors, a dog with a vest, somewhere closer to the final product?

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You have given this a lot of thoughts, you are way ahead of me. I have not thought of anything else other than building the Jeep itself as close as the original as possible. I like the idea of adding elements to it. This could grow into a multi phase project.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

Second, we are often reminded never was it made exactly to blueprint. That never happened. An odd part that 'fits' is put in somewhere along the line. Would you consider printing up a variant part from another blueprint (fordvswillys) and make it fit?

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I like the idea of variants. Something to think about. As I'm looking at pictures, I always ask myself was this part of the original or an afterthoughts for practical reasons. You make me think that if I digress from the original for some reasons, it won't be catastrophic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

Third, a thing I saw most recently was a bar they put on the front bumper, in the field but before deployment, a vertical bar higher than the window. That defeated wires strung across the road meant by the enemy to decapitate the driver. Doesn't have to be that part in particular, but could it use some historically accurate modifications beyond blueprint at your pleasure to be truer to original?

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I saw that wire cutting bar as well and found it was clever. Also reminded me that war is no fun. I mentioned in the first post of this thread that my first encounter with the Willys Jeep was through the MASH tv series. I may add stretchers on the hood and back seat. I think many variations will sprout in my mind overtime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

Fourth, there's a reason to use various grades of metals, some parts are weight bearing. Hate to see this thing sagging once you put in a kill devil engine! Worth thinking about, as I'm sure you are doing.

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Scaling things down to 1/10 and using 3D printed materials brings its own challenges. This will force me to digress from the original to add strength.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

And last, I read on a model building site that the jigs are required to keep square are also part of the model building process. Will be interesting to see what jigs you come up with along the way!

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Time will tell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

All off-the-shelf comments are meant to be supportive and helpful - this thing is great, and I'm thrilled like everyone watching you make it happen!!

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Your comments are welcomed and taken as intended. Thanks for taking the time to write them.

I do appreciate all the help so far by everyone! Thank you All!

Ohhh', we have a Billy Zoom in the world of Willys? Nice.

In the case of my Jeep when I found it, no two bolts would be the same length.

I'm so proud of this part I just found on my 64 I'm posting it again. I stuck a magnet down into the door and out came the missing clip. When I saw that green paint, man, it was some feeling. Now it barely fit, so I know it was cross pollination from mil spec, paint off that color not being available on a civvy. I can't e cplaincthe feeling of knowing this thing has been in there for fifty plus years. Anyway, your MASH Jeep is way cool project, glad to see your progress

WOW BB, I'm not sure how I missed your thread on here but that is "Technology at its Finest". I am an excavator and I have a software program that's called INSITE and it does dirt calculations to determine the quantity of cut/fill on sites to tell you how much dirt needs to be moved around on i.e. a 15 acre site for a new Walmart and it builds 3D models similar to yours when you are finished, of the existing site before you start and the same thing of the proposed site when your finished and it helps to give you an image of what it "supposed" to look like when your done. It is not as detailed as what you have but it is similar. It amazes me how far technology has come in the last 15-20 years.
The model your building is truly impressive, Keep up the Good work and keep us updated as you get further into it.
Here is a couple pictures of my frustration when I started my project back when I had a CAI (Crazy A&^ Idea) and thought I have a dream:D:D


Attachment 6594Attachment 6595Attachment 6596Attachment 6597

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Originally Posted by scoutingranch

Ohhh', we have a Billy Zoom in the world of Willys? Nice.

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Had to look Billy Zoom up. I'm totally clueless about Punk Rock. You can tell by my nickname what my music preference is. If you are into guitar/amp/pedal building, feel free to check my Facebook page where I showcase the things I build. You will have to dig down a bit since my last guitar was completed at the beginning of 2020. http://tessier.work

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Originally Posted by okiemark

In the case of my Jeep when I found it, no two bolts would be the same length.

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lol, my notion of "Original" is shifting, with your comment and 5JeepsAz above, I'm getting the sense that no Jeep that age is totally original. and it make sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

I'm so proud of this part I just found on my 64 I'm posting it again. I stuck a magnet down into the door and out came the missing clip. When I saw that green paint, man, it was some feeling. Now it barely fit, so I know it was cross pollination from mil spec, paint off that color not being available on a civvy. I can't e cplaincthe feeling of knowing this thing has been in there for fifty plus years. Anyway, your MASH Jeep is way cool project, glad to see your progress

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Must have been an exhilarating moment to find this treasure in your Jeep. I've started reading your Cindy thread in my spare time, which unfortunately is not that much. Who would've thought that I'd be looking for more time at retirement.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by TJones

WOW BB, I'm not sure how I missed your thread on here but that is "Technology at its Finest". I am an excavator and I have a software program that's called INSITE and it does dirt calculations to determine the quantity of cut/fill on sites to tell you how much dirt needs to be moved around on i.e. a 15 acre site for a new Walmart and it builds 3D models similar to yours when you are finished, of the existing site before you start and the same thing of the proposed site when your finished and it helps to give you an image of what it "supposed" to look like when your done. It is not as detailed as what you have but it is similar. It amazes me how far technology has come in the last 15-20 years.
The model your building is truly impressive, Keep up the Good work and keep us updated as you get further into it.
Here is a couple pictures of my frustration when I started my project back when I had a CAI (Crazy A&^ Idea) and thought I have a dream:D:D


Attachment 6594Attachment 6595Attachment 6596Attachment 6597

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Thanks TJones for the comments, you are right about software evolving over the past two decades. I worked IT most of my career, mainly as a sysadmin, but I've done quite a bit of programming as well. Writing a piece of software that can build 3D things and render them is beyond my level of understanding. Truly remarkable. Thanks for the picture, your 80 pages thread is next on my thread to read. There must be a lot of nice thing in there.

Here's the progress to date. I work on half the frame, it's easier this way and half the work. As you can see I added the bumpers.

Attachment 6598

I then use the mirror command to create the other half and used the rendering portion of the software to get this picture.

Attachment 6599

My next order of business is to build the lower crossmember and add most of the brackets. This way I should be pretty close to the final version of the frame. I hope to print it sometime this week.

I also ordered three rolls of Army Green filament.

Attachment 6600

This is the closest I'll get without painting it.

[QUOTE=bluesblooded;13949]Had to look Billy Zoom up. I'm totally clueless about Punk Rock. You can tell by my nickname what my music preference is. If you are into guitar/amp/pedal building, feel free to check my Facebook page where I showcase the things I build. You will have to dig down a bit since my last guitar was completed at the beginning of 2020. http://tessier.work


Zoom has a shop in L.A where he builds equipment. His comments about playing was to make it look as simple as possible and not make harsh faces while playing, only smiles. X can be viewed on Utube.

I'll go to your website.

[QUOTE=scoutingranch;13951]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluesblooded

Had to look Billy Zoom up. I'm totally clueless about Punk Rock. You can tell by my nickname what my music preference is. If you are into guitar/amp/pedal building, feel free to check my Facebook page where I showcase the things I build. You will have to dig down a bit since my last guitar was completed at the beginning of 2020. http://tessier.work


Zoom has a shop in L.A where he builds equipment. His comments about playing was to make it look as simple as possible and not make harsh faces while playing, only smiles. X can be viewed on Utube.

I'll go to your website.

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I've listened to a couple of clips on YouTube. They definitely rock.

I added the transmission crossmember.

Attachment 6602

Now ready to print it. I place the digital files on the bed of the slicer software and decide of the orientation. I also add some support (the transparent blue blocks) this will add support because a 3 printer cannot print in thin air. So whenever there is a gap with the bed I may need to add support. There is some bridging possible without support, but it rarely is satisfactory

Attachment 6603

Once satisfied, I slice the parts. The software does exactly that, slice at a predetermined thickness. For now I use 0.3mm slices. It is consider a draft. Not good quality, but faster. That is perfect for the prototype phase.

The slicer figures out where to melt plastic and generates gcode (machine language that CNC and 3D printer uses). This Gcode is basically movement coordinates of movement along the three axes, X, Y an Z*.

The green portions are the support. As you can see, there is far less green than blue block in the above picture. I did not catch this therefore, a bunch of support will be missing. I will need to revisit this the next time. In the draft settings, it will take about 5 hours to print

Attachment 6604

Here we have it after the first layer of 0.3mm

Attachment 6605

Here it's assembled

Attachment 6606

Attachment 6607

All in all, it is good. I need to make a couple of adjustments, I need to add tolerance between some of the parts. The fit is too tight. I also need to revisit some of the parts printing position to see if I can get better results.

I will be ready to print at a higher resolution and see what it will look like at 0.15mm layers. I also plan to print it at different scale to see how the parametric changes behave.

That is IMPRESSIVE BB, don’t be so hard on yourself as far as being perfect. It is damn near perfect the way it is!!
You may have created a monster on this site, I probably could come up with 10-12 guys and girls that would pay ya to duplicate their project me of course being the proto type :cool::cool:!!!
That is so Cool and I bet it’s just as cool to be able to build them.

It looks like you have a white primed frame sitting on jackstands in the cleanest garage ever!

This is fantastic!

I think you've got us hooked!

Wow man this is cool!

Awesome awesome awesome

This is a very interesting subject. Modern technology at its finest. Good work!

Are you going to make the steering arm mount on the front cross-member, and the engine mount braces as separate parts?

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Originally Posted by TJones

That is IMPRESSIVE BB, don’t be so hard on yourself as far as being perfect. It is damn near perfect the way it is!!
You may have created a monster on this site, I probably could come up with 10-12 guys and girls that would pay ya to duplicate their project me of course being the proto type :cool::cool:!!!
That is so Cool and I bet it’s just as cool to be able to build them.

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Thanks TJ, I don't know about creating a monster, but I sure appreciate the positive feedback from everyone. It pushes me to move forward. A supplemental retirement income would never hurt :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LarrBeard

It looks like you have a white primed frame sitting on jackstands in the cleanest garage ever!

This is fantastic!

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And clean fingernails in bonus ;) Thanks LarrBeard

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Originally Posted by okiemark

I think you've got us hooked!

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Thanks Mark

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Originally Posted by bmorgil

Wow man this is cool!

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Thank you bmorgil

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

Awesome awesome awesome

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Thanks 5JeepsAz

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Originally Posted by gmwillys

This is a very interesting subject. Modern technology at its finest. Good work!

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Thanks gmwillys, I will add new modern technology to my arsenal. Just ordered a 3D resin printer. Will talk about it later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bmorgil

Are you going to make the steering arm mount on the front cross-member, and the engine mount braces as separate parts?

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I have not included the engine brackets yet because they are not located symmetrically. I will add them after the mirroring process is completed.

As for the steering mount, are you referring to this part circled in blue in your picture?

Attachment 6610

If so this is the first time I notice it. I will have to think about how I will integrate this. Due to its size, I may make it a separate part, but then I'll have to figure out how to install it afterwards.

I've tested my scaling parameters and it looks to be working fine down to a scale of 1:16. Smaller than that gives a load of errors. Going bigger does not seem to be a problem.

here's a picture of the printed parts of the frame scaled at 1:16

Even if I used a resolution of 0.15mm layers, the quality is good, but could be better.

Attachment 6611

On the good side, the tolerance I added worked just fine, maybe even a bit too loose. I will test ont the larger scale printout a tolerance of 0.075mm instead of 0.1mm

The printer I have is using FDM (Fused Deposition Modelling) technology. This is the most popular 3D printing technology. It's easy to operate. The drawback is the precision. It has too do with the nozzle diameter and thickness of layers. These are great printers, but when you try to print smaller parts, they are a bit limited.

On the other hand, SLA printers are best suited for really small detail printing. They are also limited by the size of parts that can be printed. In comparison, my FDM printer as a bed of roughly 8x8x8 inches. An affordable SLA printer as a printer bed of 5x3x6 inches. It also differs on how it prints. Instead of melting plastic, it uses a liquid resins that reacts to UV. The bed soaks in the resin and an LCD screen sends UV light where the models should be. The resin reacts to UV and hardens at that exact position. The resolution is way better, but the process is slower and dealing with the post processing of resin printed part is a pain in the lower back. Up until today I resisted the urge of getting one, but the lack of fine details of the 1:16 scale convinced me to pull the trigger.

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Originally Posted by bluesblooded

I have not included the engine brackets yet because they are not located symmetrically. I will add them after the mirroring process is completed.

As for the steering mount, are you referring to this part circled in blue in your picture?

Attachment 6610

If so this is the first time I notice it. I will have to think about how I will integrate this. Due to its size, I may make it a separate part, but then I'll have to figure out how to install it afterwards.

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Yes that's it, officially the "Steering Bell crank" mount. It is a fairly big piece. Also the Master cylinder mount on the drivers side if you want to hook up the brakes!

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Originally Posted by bmorgil

Yes that's it, officially the "Steering Bell crank" mount. It is a fairly big piece. Also the Master cylinder mount on the drivers side if you want to hook up the brakes!

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I don't know yet what will be the level of details for mechanical things. I will see how the project evolves.

I wondered how to assemble the smaller scale. I thought that screw would be overkill and too big in comparison. So I decided to make holes the size of the filament and use it as guides to glue the parts together.

Attachment 6615

I'm happy with the decision, it works great.

Here is the 1:16 scale next to the 1:10

Attachment 6616

The biggest scale I can get away with is 1:6 if I orient the frame diagonally.

Here you can see the two portions that makes the frame.

Attachment 6617

The 1:6 scale frame will take over 28 hours to print. You'll get to see the result by the end of the week. I do not print when I sleep. The printer is a fire hazard. The hot end heats plastic at 225 celcius / 437 Farenheit. I prefer to always have an ear or an eye on it

While we wait, I'll start to design the leaf springs. I may also entertain you :rolleyes::rolleyes: on all the parametric stuff I've alluded along this thread. It may get boring, but I think is a great feature of Fusion 360 over other software such as Rhino 3D.

A little history lesson from the archive of near useless information. The steering bell crank on the MB and Ford GPW were not mounted to the frame cross member like the 2A on up. It was mounted directly to the axle tube. It was changed after the war due to brake steering issues. I. E. Slam on the brakes, and the Jeep would cut hard due the shift in the suspension. It was the only real safety flaw of the design, but being that the whole works was designed and built in a matter of weeks, not too shabby.

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Originally Posted by gmwillys

A little history lesson from the archive of near useless information. The steering bell crank on the MB and Ford GPW were not mounted to the frame cross member like the 2A on up. It was mounted directly to the axle tube. It was changed after the war due to brake steering issues. I. E. Slam on the brakes, and the Jeep would cut hard due the shift in the suspension. It was the only real safety flaw of the design, but being that the whole works was designed and built in a matter of weeks, not too shabby.

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Thanks gmwillys for the history lesson. Keep them coming, I love history.

So the steering bell crank would be mounted on this post on the right side?

Attachment 6618

You are correct. The stud is fairly close to being centered on the axle, with the pumpkin, or ring and pinion gear housing being on the passenger side. The picture is shown from the front looking rearward.

I absolutely love this thing, even with little to no detail. On the other hand, this print thing you do allows for exquisite detail. Interested in whereabout you end up on detail/functions.

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Originally Posted by 5JeepsAz

I absolutely love this thing, even with little to no detail. On the other hand, this print thing you do allows for exquisite detail. Interested in whereabout you end up on detail/functions.

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I meant the level of details of mechanical parts that are not visible like the master cylinder and hooking the brakes. As far as detail of the exterior, I hope to add as much as possible.