New to the Forum

Hi All
I am in the middle of rebuilding a 1952 M38 for a show vehicle and I have seen older bodies that didn't have a tailgate on them, they just had a solid piece of steel across the back in lieu of a tailgate.
Does anyone know the year and model of that paticular one I am talking about and will it fit onto my frame?
This was a barn find for $150.00.
It had a Buick 225 odd-fire that I took out and I'm going to replace it with a 252 even-fire that is getting built by a local engine builder.
Someone put power steering on it and a Warn overdrive to help compensate for the 538 gears it came with.
I just finished putting 11" brakes off a 64 Jeep Pickup to help the Ole girl get stopped better than the factory 9" brakes.
It has turned into a long project but I have made up my mind to do it right or dont do it at all.
As soon as the motor is finished I can start moving forward on installing the body and hopefully have it finished up by the time summer gets here to northeast Ohio.
I just hope and pray if my wife wants to ever sell it one day after I am gone that she doesn't sell it for "What I have been telling her it is costing" :):):)

Welcome. You are definitely doing it right, no doubt about it.

The M38A1, (1952-1971) didn't have a tailgate. The A1 is the predecessor to the CJ5, so it has a lot of the same characteristics that the CJ5 had starting in 1955. The mounts will be close to your frame. The frame you have appears to be a Civilian frame, because the machine gun pedestal mount is missing on the first rear cross member. The plate would sandwich between the cross member and the cargo floor, to provide a solid mounting surface for the machine gun. All military Jeeps from WWII on up had this plate from the factory. With that being said, the frame you have is still a great foundation to your build.

Thanks for the info., but i was wanting to stay with the flat fender look something like the pictures I have attached.
And the orange is the color my Bride has picked out.
Will a M38A1 tub match up with the flat fenders or not?

Flat fenders do have more character in my opinion. I would go with staying with the M38 style of body, then try and splice together the two body designs. My long suffering misses has a love affair with orange. When it came time to paint our bedroom, she picked out an shade of orange. We compromised with Chevrolet Hugger orange. It didn't turn out half bad.

I agree with you on the M38 style body.
I own a Excavating Company and my body guy and I are going to do some horse trading when it comes time to paint, he has a deep orange in mind with a pearl tint and is all pumped up to get it on my body when I decide which one i am getting.
Have you ever heard of or dealt with Jay at "Willys Overland Motors" in Toledo,Ohio on his Repli-Tub replacement body's?
Here is the website www.willysoverland.com
I understrand there is only 1 company that mass produces a replacement steel body for Jeep's and it comes from the Phillipines and the fitment is terrible, but Jay guarantees (after he reworks it) to bolt on in less than an hour.
I kinda want to stick with steel due to the fact I am going to put swing pedals,tilt wheel and other add-ons and I want to be able to weld or cut on it as I need too, versus a stainless,alluminum or fiberglass body that will have corrosion and or strength issue's associated with them.
What are your thoughts on this and do you have any other steel body replacement suggestions?
I am looking for someone that makes a replacement steel body that doesn't have any dash, firewall or floorpan holes cut in it so I don't have to patch up and re-drill new one's where I need them, but as I am finding out that is close to impossible to find one.

The Replitubs are the only way to go. It is correct that they take the Pilipino bodies and correct the flaws. I would contact Jay and see if the tubs come in plain, without the floor modifications done for pedals. Then that might save you a buck or to on the cost of their Replitub.

I have been talking to Jay for a year or so and he said he would do the rework and not cut any new holes in a 2A or 3A and sell it to me for $3,800.00 cash and I thought that was a pretty good deal.
He had one set aside for me and had to sell it a couple days later but said it only takes a week to get a another in, that was few weeks ago.
Do you have any suggestions on a tilt wheel that would bolt up fairly simple and swing pedals (hydraulic clutch and daul master cylinder) the same?
Advance Adapters has a big selection I see, but what about anyone else that you may know of or maybe even something from Pull Apart (not sure if you have any of those around you but they are handy sometimes)?
I am kind of waiting on my motor to get finished so I can stuff it and the tranny and TC in then start with the body assembly, extra stuff, and wiring ect.
My thoughts are to get everything in and fitted in place, then pull the body off and have it all painted off the frame by itself underside and all.
Speaking of motor's how familiar are you with a Buick 252 V6?
The guy building my motor use to work for GM and helped design/develop the new ZL1 motor out today for the new Camaro's and he's claiming with a Holley Sniper fuel injection, headers and a few more add on items on my 252 V6 he claims he will get 300 HP out of it on his dyno.

That is a good deal in my opinion. Then you have a new tub, and a blank canvas for your build.

I have a early Wagoneer ('65-'68) tilt wheel in my wagon. It is fairly compact and has a bit of Jeep style with the steering wheel. I would look at some Iditit steering columns, because they carry several different options for your needs.

https://www.ididitinc.com/

On the brake and clutch pedals, I would look around at some Wilwood brake and clutch set ups;

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/w...SABEgI7r_D_BwE

The Buick V-6 is a standard go to for Jeep performance. 300 HP is the top end of the envelope, but with the advent of tunable fuel injection, I can see it happenenig without too much trouble. The compact size makes it an ideal power plant for the CJs.

Thank You GMWillys!!!
It appears from reading your responses to the questions you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to jeeps.
I am sure I’ll be back when things get moving along with my project.
I’ll keep you up dated with photos as it moves forward.
Thanks again

No problem, Google helps out some too. We look forward to watching your progress. I'm sure with the weather breaking, you'll be busy doing dirt work. From the pictures, it looks like you have some good equipment to work with.

Thank You GM it has taken 20 years to get where I am at but I am finally getting to the point where all I really do is bid and set up jobs, my boys are starting to run the field and yes the weather in NE Ohio is finally coming around and drying out so we can get back to work after a looonnnggg hard winter.
I see your in Alabama, all my Grandfathers kin was from the Tuscaloosa and Fosters area.

No problem at all.
I started my working career at 10 years old as a go-for, working for my Great uncle, and Grandpa. They owned a small excavation company. We dug a lot of basements, and septic systems. My uncle could run a four stick Ford backhoe like playing a piano. He was amaising to watch and learn from. He taught me the fine art of spreading gravel by setting the chains on the end gate.

You must be proud that after 20 years of busting tail, you can step back a bit and let your crews handle the work. You still have plenty to do, but you don't have to be on sight to keep from things getting out of control.

The weather has been unfriendly for most of the country. I usually have have my CJ2 out by now, but it has been covered up in the shed. We had the F3 tornado come through almost a month ago, so we have been cutting trees and cleaning up after work. No work has been done to the wagon at all this winter, so that is on the agenda.

I'm not originally from these parts. I took a job with a defence contractor, that has a plant here. It's a bit of a culture shock to say the least. It's fun to watch them try and drive when we get an inch of snow...

I know what thats all about, starting at 10 years old myself my Grandfather and Father owned a Excavating Co. when I was growing up and i was the go-for,the truck washers, the oil changer, the track cleaner you might just say I was their bish.
It is getting a little eaiser these day's, I had 38 union guys at one time until the bottom dropped out of everything in 08 and I downsized to just 5 guys now and it is managable with a much better profit margin.
And yes I am proud except when my 2 boy's that "know WAY more than Dad does" have millenial flash back's and the ole man goes nut's, but for the most part they are doing pretty good.
The biggest reason I got into this project of mine is my Dad, my Uncle John and a old time freind of the family Jerry all had jeeps and Jerry with the M38 sold it about 35 years to a guy local.
He just finished a 5 year 32 chevy coupe street rod project and asked me wonder what Pat ever did with the jeep he sold him.
So thats when I was on a mission to find out, I found it and bought it off the next owner for $150.00 and here I am today, waiting on a motor!!!
The pictures attached are me and my Dad on the right with the CJ5, my Uncle in the middle with another CJ5 and Jerry on the left with his M38 and I am guessing it was 40-45 years ago.
Damn I'm getting old :):):)

That's great that you were able to purchase back the Jeep. I've been wanting to buy my great uncles, ( from my mother's side) '63 International Scout 80. It is sitting under a collapsed barn, where it had been sitting since parked. I don't know how bad it is now, but the last time I saw it, the hood was smashed, because the hood was raised. The barn collapsed some time in the early nineties, so know telling what's left. My cousins are notorious for "going to do something with it someday", so they won't sell. I used to spend my summers when I was small, with my Aunt and Uncle. He had a large farm, and we would cruise around and check fences. There was a couple of creek crossings, and when the water was high, water would come through the rust holes in the floor. The mice would scatter from within the seats. Good times.

Yeah those were some good times back then.
We all belonged to a Jeep club here in Akron called Tiretown 4 Wheelers and we all raced the drags which was a 300’ track, then a hill climb for the fastest time then we’d run the obstacle course which we maneuver through the woods,usually through a creek and mud for the fastest time also. It was a blast when I was 14-16 years old.
Then I built a single seat jeep when i was around 20-21 with a Buick V6 that Kenne Bell in Michigan built for me, he took 350 V8 heads and cut one cylinder out of the center and welded them back together so we could have bigger exhaust and intake valves, we put a 471 blower on it then I put a Lenco 2 speed tranny in it with a airshift.
That car was a Beast, I think when Bell built the motor he put it on a dyno before we went to pick it up and it was close to 875 HP, out of a 231 V6.
I ran it for 4-5 years before it had a "Scrap Iron Fit" one year in Cincinnati at a race called Gravelrama, it was the biggest race of the year and people came from all of the country. I was in the final round running a Big Block V8 in the unlimited class and I knew I had to run the Ole Girl Hard to beat the guy, so that's what I did and when I hit the button to shift is when my racing days came to a complete stop.
I will never forget the noise it made when it granaded at 12,850 (according to the Tach ) it blew the crank, rods,pistons and all out the bottom, it blew the heads and blower out the top what a mess it was......
That was back when I had more money than sense, but it was fun.
Now a days I just tinker with a old Jeep and try and Spoil my 3 Granddaughters as much as possible

You noted; "Damn I'm getting old"

There seems to be a lot of that going on around here. But, I believe it beats the alternative. Much of the Jeep restoration is done by us more mature guys. We don't keep our heads down in phones, get gamer's thumbs other such afflictions. We tend to use technology as a tool - not an end in itself.

We get greasy, drop dirt in our eyes even behind safety glasses and skin up knuckles and talk to things to get them loose.

Isn't it fun!

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Here is a old picture of my Money Pit

My folks were members of our local Jeep club, and they did a lot of the same events. They ran old gravel pits and strip mines. I don't know what the name of the club was. Truth be known, I was concieved at a Playboy club resort, while they were on a club run to Wisconsin. Then after I refused to be born, two weeks after the due date, dad would take Mom for Jeep rides. He had a CJ5 Renegade. When I was 1 dad would take me for Jeep rides while Mom was at work. One afternoon we even chased a tornado. Mom wasn't happy. They also had a '69 Camaro, that mom drove. In my child's mind, we had the coolest cars ever... Then my brother was born. I rode between the seats, when we drove to trade both rides in for a family friendly Caprice. The good times were over, in more ways than one. I did get my '63 wagon from a farm auction, for $500.00. I drove it a bunch, but it wasn't terribly reliable. I was constantly working on it, so I purchased something newer for everyday use. The wagon went into storage for 15 years.

When I turned 18, I started building demo derby cars. I loved going when I was a kid in the seventies, so when I turned 18, and didn't need anyone's signature, I put together my first car. I had set cars up prior to that for my uncle, but by then he had lost his nerve....or figured out that it didn't feel all that good the next day. I started out running a '70 Impala, and did alright. Then my Great uncle had a '79 Caprice that I was more than happy to dispatch. I ended up running it for a couple of season, and actually made a little money. . After a while, I took a job with Caterpillar in Minnesota. Little did I know that it was a hot bed for demo derbies. I bought a house, and built a nice shop, and before long, I had several sources for cheap land yachts, so the inventory was extensive. There was pallet racking as high as the cieling full of parts. When I took my current position down here, there were car haulers and pick-up trucks wrapped around the block to purchase stuff. It was a sad day, but after 10 years, it was time to get out, and do something a bit less destructive.

Taking off this morning to head to Toledo to pick up my 3A body from Willys Overland and hopefully it doesn’t rain on us.

Didn't make it, did you? We got drowned here in NE Indiana. Oh well, water won't hurt it.

Nope
Got all the way to Toledo from Akron with no rain, got everything loaded up and it started pouring.had the hood,fenders,windshield frame and tailgate in the bed of my truck covered with the cap but the tub was on my trailer and got soaked.
Thank God for a 2 hour turnpike ride back at 80, it was like a blow dryer once we got out of the rain!!!
Just had to keep ahead of it and we did.

Rain won't bother it too much. Glad you got your body home. Now the real fun begins!

Your exactly right on that GM Willys.

Keep us up to date on your progress. As a suggestion, keep a tab on all the likes and dislikes of the body kit. I've read a lot of propaganda on the Willy's Overland Replitub, but would like to read an honest opinion on the quality of the whole thing.

I havent really got into it much, but just like Jay from "Willys Overland" said you cant expect a whole heck of a lot from something that a bunch of 10-12 year old kids threw together in the Phillipines.
All and all it doesnt look to bad, one thing is for sure it's a heck of a lot better than what I started with.
It for sure is going to take a lot of putty ( skim coating wise ) to cover up the spot weld marks. They are everywhere, but I am building something that I'm going to take to car shows so I guess if your just going to build a trail rider it would be perfect, or maybe in my older age I just am getting a little more anal about it being done right instead of half fast :):):)
I'll keep you updated on the fitment once I get the motor done and stuffed in it and start to set the body on her.

Sounds like a plan. I wish I could get my 13 year old out to the garage and do some welding. She struck one arc some years back, and she got the whiff of burnt hair.... That was the end of that. Maybe in a year or few she will come around.

I bought a tub through Kaiser for my CJ2a. I was pretty pleased with it. I'm not sure if it is the same source as Willys Overlander. It was made in Asia somewhere. Fit was generally very good. Only issues I remember were alignment of the pedal holes was a little off and the dash guage holes were just a little undersized for the guages. Both were fairly easy to resolve. I used the original fenders and hood and they fit up just fine. Mine tub didn't have the Jeep script stamped into the tool box - but I think that was not on all cj2as?

The remanufactured body kits are all made by MD Juan in the Philippines. Willys Overland purchases the body kit and applies the correct fixtures to locate everything for proper fitment, (per their web sight). You can purchase a Willys stamped body kit, but you have to pay a bit extra for the name through Fiat/Chrysler, who own the Copy rights. The military bodies from the factory didn't have the Willys stamped hoods or tailgates, nor the Jeep stamped tool box. This was a Government standard, until Ford had its

My source of wonderment comes from a prior experience with a Juan body. We had a M38/CJ3A bodied Heep that the fitment of every panel was horrendous. The fenders didn't line up with the grill, the hood was too long, the windshield was alright, and the body mounts were not close. The clutch and brake reliefs were also off as SteveBonny has stated. The body was not that old, and had been professionally painted inside and out, but it still was rusting out on the floor boards at the hat channels. The Heep was produced some time in the early eighties, so I'm curious to see if the quality control has improved.

Well i got back to my project and all i have to say is the steel they use to make these Repli-tubs is like paper, I dont think it has anything to do with "Willys Overland" it has everything to do with the company MD Juan that mass produces them.As far as fitment it did what Jay said it would do and that was bolt up in less than an hour!!
My first little project was to make some seat brackets for the bucket seats I ordered from Jegs, then I moved to cutting the original dash out and I'm welding a solid piece of sheet metal in place of the original due to I am putting my emergency brake handle on the floor, changing the steering to a tilt column with a key in the column and I want to put the gauge holes and speedo hole in different spots than what comes on the original dash configuration.
This is when I figured out the gauge of the steel (especially in the areas where it is bent) is like paper, other than that (and doing a lot of building up and filling in burnt through holes) everything is going good SLOW but good.Attachment 3116Attachment 3117Attachment 3118Attachment 3119Attachment 3120

Looking good. Are you going to run the fuel tank in the stock location, or run a cell, or a CJ5 style? I'm curious to how the seat brackets will look. Your selection of seats look comfortable.

Thank you for keeping us up to date!

From my experience with an early MD Juan body, it was thin just as you said.

Yes GMwillys I am using the stock tank,I ordered one from Kaiser Willys and after a couple weeks of hearing nothing I called and they told me the company that made the steel tanks went out of business so I ordered a plastic tank for $40 more.
I sat on a 5 gallon bucket for a long time trying to come up with a design taking in that with the seats I bought I had to keep them low enough that mine and my brides heads wouldn't stick up above the windsheild but they sat as far back as I could get them so our knees didn't hit the dashboard.
One has to remember that when these were produced in the 40's and 50's the average height was only 5'2" to 5'6" and me being 6'2" and my bride at 5'11" (Love that,she's got legs clear up to Heaven) there isn't a lot of leg room to start and or play with.
Got the brackets and seats mounted FINALLY, after I get the brackets all ground down and everything mounted in her I am moving on the the steering column.
I made a mock up column out of PVC pipe to mount up to get my proper length before I order one.
I'll send some pictures when we get that far along on the SLOW but Good progress, Slow meaning it's crunch time in NE Ohio and we are going like mad men trying to get all our jobs buttoned up before Ole Man winter sticks his Ugly *** head in and shuts us down for a few months.

I figured you would be busy, trying to get through with the open jobs before winter. I remember those days well, and in some ways miss them.

Not to make excuses for Kaiser Willys, but with all the hurricane cleanup going on around their region, it isn't a surprise that they are having trouble with vendors. They should have communicated that to you. Our member Pelago hasn't had much luck getting back on his feet for waiting on the insurance to pay up.

Very true about the average height. I have a goatskin leather A2 pilot's jacket from the 50's. My shoulders won't fit into it. I was blessed to be average height, (5'10"), so as long as I don't eat too much, the 2A still fits rather well. One thing you may think about, is modifying the rear wheel wells to give you a little more leg room. There is plenty of room in front of the rear tires. You can gain 4" to 6" inches depending on the size of the tires that you want to use. This also be useful to reduce the amount of hidden spaces for dirt to collect causing the typical Willys rust. When done right, the average person will never know that it isn't original. The steering columns such as the one you included are nice. I used an Ididit tilt column on a friend's 64 El Camino project several years back. It went in perfectly, and functioned well. On our wagon project, the barnyard engineered Wagoneer tilt column worked very well. Now that I have it all apart, I am cleaning up the mounting brackets, but will retain the column. The original 64-65 steering wheel looks and is the right size for the operation. The chrome ring for the horn button looks good. I will have to repair some of the cracks in the plastic, but there are products on the market that are made to repair such cracks.

Plastic isn't a bad second choice. Pet vehicles sit a lot and even though gas doesn't have a lot of water in it any more, plastic tanks won't rust if they sit and collect atmospheric moisture over time.

Attachment 3128Attachment 3129Attachment 3130Attachment 3131Attachment 3132

Attachment 3133Attachment 3134Attachment 3135Attachment 3136

Those are some good brackets that you made. With the tilt wheel, you should have sufficient leg room. The only thing that sticks in my mind is closing off access to the tool box. I know how my luck runs, I keep spare points, cap, rotor, old wires, etc wrapped up in a Ziploc bag in mine. I'm a firm believer in having and not needing, then needing and not having. One of my idiosyncrasies. You may have already planned a storage spot for spare items.

I took your advice gm about moving the seats back.
After a couple beers and sitting on a bucket for a couple hours I cut the rear fender wells out to give me about 5-6 more inches.
Wisdom at its finest Thanks for the idea it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.Attachment 3265Attachment 3266Attachment 3267Attachment 3268

Glad it worked for you. No sense trying to fit within 1940s average person sizes, when the solution is a few drilled spot welds away. It doesn't take away from the Willys look, but gives your knees room to get in and out without banging into the wheel.

Making progress on the steering now that we got the seat situation figured out!!!Attachment 3335Attachment 3336Attachment 3337Attachment 3338Attachment 3339

Looking good! The seating turned out really well!