With all the environmental protection worries, most of the good radiator shops have gone away. The closest one to me is an hour and a half away.
Printable View
With all the environmental protection worries, most of the good radiator shops have gone away. The closest one to me is an hour and a half away.
It won't be a big deal to have a small repair made. You've driven it quite a bit lately, so I'm confident that your problem isn't a big one. A stress crack or a soldered joint is letting some coolant out.
Trying the black pepper deal?? Several tablespoons in radiator???
Only to get you home. A raw egg is another farmer's trick to get you to where you can repair properly. Wesco Silver Seal was always my go to for pinch fixes. It comes in a plastic tube, and consists of aluminum flakes. It won't kill the water pump, but can clog some of the flutes within the rad. It also works great for sealing up a leaking, (pouring) GM truck Saginaw power steering input shaft. The power steering pump growls until it chews it all down to a fine powder, but the puppy won't leak anymore.
I am pretty sure Champion custom made a radiator for TJones, at a reasonable sum. I'll bet they can make it mount up the way it was intended.
I would hate to see the old radiator leave you stranded. Most of the time they are going to cut and solder the leaking core tubes. This reduces the radiators ability. Like LarrBeard said, finding a shop that can really clean them any more is tough. All the new stuff is plastic, aluminum and glue. I did find a mature shop that has been around since the early 50's. He said he would be glad to help out but, he could never get close to the Champion price. When you repair an old core that is starting to fail, it usually fails somewhere else shortly after you fix it. He said the best thing to do was have a new core made. Upside of $500.
There is something in what you say,,, repair costs haveto be 100.00 to 200.00 and i feel that a new radiator set up to what ineed is possible good point repair costs versus just replace it
If you are not having overheating issues, and the overall core condition is good, you'll be in good shape for repair. The material used in the tanks and cores on the original rads was made to last, and would be a fairly easy fix as long as long as there is good material to bond with.
During my time playing with demolition derby cars, I had a favorite Chrysler radiator that was 4" out of square. The upper hose nipple had been punched through the front of the tank. It was fixed through pushing the tank back in position with a press, then brazed a patch over the hole in the front of the tank. When pressure checked, it had a couple seeps, but nothing to worry about. It held up to a big block running wide open, and running temps around 230 degrees without popping apart, but would rather whistle like a tea kettle.
The leak has stopped, probably only temporary, two full tablespoons of black pepper, actualy now runs about ten degrees warmer right at about 184 before pepper was 175, by temp gauge, feel that the issue is not a primary concern right now.
BRAKES, spent 6 hours on them today, first go around they were too tight, damn thing would hardly move, second attempt they were better but still not right, went around all four and backed off the eccentics on all wheels, could mot see inside of course, but feel that the shoes are just barely therre on all four. went for a ride and was up to speed on empty road and did a panic stop, damn, it stopped pretty darn good. Had to remove hub on right front darn eccentric locking nut just did not want to turn right, so removed it and replaced locking nut and it went is as it should
You are going to be the brake master adjuster before you're done.
Success! Stopping pretty good is as good as it gets!
Pelago,
I have the old radiator out of mine that may be the same or close to yours and it's been all redone if your interested in it.
Attachment 4897Attachment 4898Attachment 4899Attachment 4900
I found that if the wheels are still on it makes it difficult to turn, i know the wt of wheels should help, however i 1/2 way dismantled the front end and just drum on and i could really feel the eccentrics move the shoes, too much and it locks up, got it do just barely touching.. then re assembled and did rear end same
think i messed up with the pepper, probably got all the water passages gobbed up with pepper now running hot
Pepper will reject water. It is not attracted to it. A good flush will get it out.
TJones has a 1952 M38 or CJ3B I think.
It’s a 52 M38, you’ll have to check to see if it will fit.
Mine has bolts on the bottom tank that holds it in place.
prior to using the pepper, i had good water flow and the temp was running 178-181 around there and as i said coolant flow was superb, now coolant flow is not as it should and that tells me that the radiator not flowing and only reason it wouldnot flow has to be that the coolant channels are not right, pepper gobs in it
****
Dough! Pepper will get you home, but not a long term fix.
A true M38 radiator was designed just like the early A1s. Mount rods come up from the motor mounts to the sides of the radiator. This was the only means of mounting the rad, to make the engine and cooling an assembly. The grill was not mounted to the rad or the crossmember. The assembly could be plucked out of the frame without draining coolant, and coul be ground hopped outside of the vehicle to ensure the pack was running properly. Not much has changed over the years. Today's modern military machines still use the "Full Up Power Pack" method to power vehicles. We service and test packs, then Dyno test the whole assembly to ensure the FUPP will withstand the punishment offered by war.
anyoe ever tried to reverse flush a radiator? i never have, and since a water pump just moves water it really does not provide any pressure, but to remove this crap maybe needs pressure?? damn pepper was a bust. to sop a very small leak i managed to bothch it up
The easiest way to flush is to open the drain on the bottom of the radiator, and trickle water in the top while its running. Adjust the water flow in to match the water flow out and let it go until its coming out clean. Though the pump provides little pressure it does have a good flow. I think the pepper will come out.
might work.. also had this suggestion use CLR in the thing and get it to temp and let sit for a while then drain, also suggested to use dishwasher soap in it?? both sound pretty cheap and sure can not screw the pooch more than is is. One gent said that is what they do at a Caterpillar facility and it works on $100,000.00 cats......................
one fellow suggested that i use a product (dont remember the name) that is aluminum chips or aluminum oxide he said it worked for him HOWEVER AFTER LIVING ON A SAILBOAT FOR TEN YEARS I FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY THAT ALUMINUM AND BRASS JUST DO NOT LIKE ON ANOTHER............ELECTROLYSIS TURNED PART OF MY MAST TO REAL CRAP WHEN SOMEONE USED BRASS SCREWS ON A ALUMINUM MAST. ACTUALLY HAD TO CUT OUT THE PARTS THAT WERE REALLY BAD AND HAVE THE MAST REPAIRED. COST A BUNCH TOO
a question, octane rating, today we can get 87,89,93. how do these compare to "ethyl and regular" from 1952, try to google it and i get everything under the sun but what i am looking for, all i remember was sunoco 260 (on the way to us 30 dragstrip in 1960), and if i am not mistaken the actual octane of sunoco 260 was actually about 106 curious, not talkiing about the lead or lack of lead but just plain octane
This is a good flush solution. I wouldn't put something in that can "suds" up, harden or cake. https://gobdp.com/blog/what-is-the-b...sh-a-radiator/
From some old info I have on fuel, after World War II, gasoline octanes in the United States were around 79 for regular and 85 for premium. By 1954 it looks like premium gasoline's were rated as high as 94 octane and regular at 86. I ran a lot of Sunoco 260 also. Excellent fuel and as you stated, it was rated at 106 octane.
The little L134 and F134 was designed to run on 63 octane! The low 6.4 to 1 compression ratio and low timing advance, allowed some pretty poor fuel to run in the motor. I suppose this was because during war, you used any fuel you could find. The F head ratio was raised to 7.4 with an option to go back to the 6.4 ratio. I do know that when I was selling car parts in South America, the mechanics would tell me the fuel was low in octane and high in sulfur. I would guess that Willys wanted to be sure the motor would run wherever it went.
I have read a few forum posts where the tuner turns the timing up. I also turn the timing up a bit. The non ethanol fuel I have found is 90 octane. I run about 8 degrees before. I am sure it will take a LOT more!
Just to add a tidbit:
My aviation buddy talks about aviation fuel after WWII. The big radial engines (think B-29 and Super Constellation) ran a high supercharge and the fuel (113/130+ octane) was considered to be an aromatic hydrocarbon with a molecular structure closer to perfume than what we would consider gasoline.
The Esslingen Ordinance rebuild plate kind of surprised a lot of us as just how bad Jeep gas could be. You could pull up to the pump and order "One Octane over Kerosene ..."
The military still runs a pretty low standard octane fuel in their combat vehicles. In our CAT engines, (3126/C-7 series) we run JP-8. The downside is that the closer to kerosene fuel doesn't have the lubricity characteristics that a #2 diesel grade would have. In turn we use an oil exchanger that pipes in metered used crank case oil into the fuel rail. New oil is then introduced into the crankcase to replace the amount that is burned off. Sounds like a good trade off, but we do not see much more than 4,000 hours out of a set of injectors. The dyno pulls are comparable with an engine running #2, except the torque is better with diesel. The next generation of vehicles is leaving the line with #2 diesel in the tanks.
Starting in the '50s, most all of the deuce and a half's were running multifuel engines. They could burn just about anything liquid that would combust. The turbine engine in the M-1 Abrams main battle tank will burn just about anything as well, but at a half mile per gallon, it better.
don't seem to have the get up and go i thought i would have??
http://m38a1.com/Resources/tabulated_data.htm
There's not much there that's for sure! With the gearing they came with however, they can climb a wall with that little engine.
SO SO NOT SURE NOW??? GOT SPEEDOMETER CABLE AND CAN NOT GET HIGHER THAN 40MPH IN 3RD....
WENT TO THE MANUAL.
check compression, did so and not happy, not sure what when where or how. cycl 1, and 2 seem okay above 100. (manual says 125 factory and above 100 is acceptable with min of 100). plug one and two looked good, good fire
but 3 and 4 carbon and sorta wet???? compression both st hi 90 considerable difference between 1&2 tp 3&4
the manual says if adjoining cyl low comp could be leak between the two?? now occasional, for no reason i get a backfire while idle??. Book says re torque and test again.. doing that now, couple of the head bolts seem a bit loose (well not loose but they had some to go to get to 65lbs)
putting it all back together and then re test after i warm it up
You might want to make sure a valve didn't get a little tight on the lash. Can you show a picture of the plugs? Do you have a way to see if the vacuum is steady at idle?
no vacum check, just went around the block and get to 30+ in 2nd and just dont have a run long enough to run out 3rd. highest on short flat hwy 40ish but was a improvement. sounds throatier and stronger?? kinda warm not to be sticking fingers in there for another compression check....
did another compression test.... not good
SEEMS LIKE I GAMBLED AND LOST....
WHEN I BOUGHT THIS THING WAS TOLD THE MOTOR RAN FINE, WELL IT DOES BUT DOES NOT HAVE ANY OOOOOMPH TO IT SUPPOSED TO GET 25 IN FIRST, 40 IN SECOND AND 60 IN 3RD
I DONT CLOSE TO IT IN FIRST AND 35 IN SECOND BUT CAN NOT EVEN GET ABOVE 40 IN THIRD
BUT DO HAVE A COMPLETE SPARE ENGINE THAT WAS TOLD WHEN JEEP PARKED IT RAN.
Guess the new chapter in Magoo will be major motor overhaul with exception maybe having to get new pistons extra 150.00 al piecees and parts come to about 400 catalog prices. i have a engine stand and will start mounting the spare motor to the engine stand today. there is a excellent machine shop close by if need to be bored or what have you, and they can dip and clean both head and block then valves.
I will keep my original plan too finish the jeep before holidays, canvas for seats, pair of seat belts (not original of course but i feel needed) windshield wipers, bumpettes. next year will only get full set of canvas, was quoted 1400.00 for all of it, bows, top, sides, doors the whole shooting match
OKAY, NOW THIS IS GOING TO RAISE AN EYBROW OR TWO.. COMPRESSION AS A RATIO
Compression Ratio 7.4 to 1 M38A1 134F MOTOR
HOW DO YOU EQUATE RATIO FROM A MIN OF 100 POUNDS TO MAX OF 125 POUNDS
WHERE CAN I FIND CRANKSHAFT SPECS, MAIN AND ROD BEARING DIAMETER MIN/MAX GONNA PUT THIS IN A FILE, I KNOW THE BORE IS 3 1/8": PROBABLY NEED FOR CAM TOO
Everything should be here https://cj3b.info/Hurricane.html
Also here are the different versions of the F head 4-134 https://www.jeeptech.com/engine/hurricane134.html
Attached files are from the Universal Service Manual
I need a while to organize my thoughts and I'll try to tie it together.
Ok, I gathered a bit .....
What does compression ratio have to do with how many PSI you get on a compression check?
To get a first quick answer, we go back to Boyle’s Law (Boyle is a dead Englishman) that says the volume of a gas is inversely proportional to its pressure – assuming constant temperature. Let’s just look at the first part of this – it means if you squeeze it, the pressure goes up.
To make a rough connection to compression ratio, let’s take atmospheric pressure as 15 PSI (close for an example). If I compress the gas (air) in a L-134 cylinder by a factor of 7.4 (compression ratio), I should multiply 15 times 7.4 to get an idea of the pressure I would expect. When I do the numbers, I get 111 PSI – somewhat less than the 125 PSI the spec calls out. Where are the other fwe PSI?
Well, part of the added pressure comes from the second part of Mr. Boyle’s Law – the part about constant temperature. When you squeeze that air together in the top of the cylinder, it gets hot and we can discount that “constant temperature” stuff. As the compressed air gets hotter, its pressure rises even more (think about a big Cat diesel engine just before the injector opens).
If we had a perfectly sealed chamber, that air we just squeezed would have a lot more pressure than the 125 PSI we are talking about because it would be a lot hotter – which also raises pressure. But – we don’t have a perfectly sealed chamber in that cylinder. Good valves seal very well – no appreciable leakage there, but we do have leakage back through ring gaps. Worn cylinder walls let ring gaps open up and oval shaped cylinders don’t let rings seal well at all.
The pressure we measure in a compression check is a function of the compression ratio, how hot the air gets when it is compressed and how much of it leaks back past rings and cylinder walls as it is being compressed. There is probably no really good way to calculate the answer any closer than we did with our Boyle Law example, so we rely on what people have measured on known good engines.
An L-134 with good rings, good valves and good ring sealing will give you 125 PSI (plus some or minus just a little). If there is something wrong (leaky valve seats, worn rings, out of round cylinder walls or scored walls), there is enough leakage to drop the pressure down to 100 or even less. We've seen engines at 50 or 60 that still kind of run ... Experience tells us that compression much below 100 PSI indicates wear and will give hard starting (especially on a hot engine) and as we all know -blue oil smoke out the exhaust.
Did that help any – I didn’t want to turn into a “perfesser”.
The rod bearing diameter on the crank (listed in the attachment as Crankpin Journal) is 1.9375" to 1.9383" . The Mains on the crank (listed in the attachment as Journal Diameter) is 2.3331" to 2.3341". .003" bearing clearance is max.
100 psi is not acceptable "by the book". The acceptable compression for the 6.9 to 1 compression F134 is 120 to 130 psi. The high altitude option 7.4 to 1 compression is slightly higher at 125 to 135 psi. Though 100 is not considered "acceptable" in the service manual, I have known many an engine to run OK on less. My 6.4 to 1 compression L134 has a pressure range of 90 to 110 psi "by the book".
I WANT A MANUAL FOR THE 134F MOTOR NOT THIS
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/mechani...ts-52-66-m38a1
during my years in Marines this would have been a 1st or 2nd echelon maintenance manual. does not have a "blow up" of motor although a worthwhile manual it does not do this as it so describes
"Reprint of the original service manual. Includes complete vehicle disassembly, assembly, and blowup diagrams. If your looking to restore your vehicle - this is the first thing you should buy. A complete walk thru to help you rebuild or trouble shoot just about any mechanical or electrical problem. Don't rely on those wrong universal manuals - this is the proper one. Guaranteed. Original military issue."
this one??
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/master-...h-4-134-engine
tired of spending 40-50 bucks on a manual that does not tell me what torque to put on main bearings or rod bearings
I rebuilt a Kubota engine and they had the most incredible manual it had diagrams and pictures of each and every step in the process... i rebuilt my 4cyl diesel with this one
Attachment 4935
I WANT ONE THAT I CAN GET INSIDE THIS THING
Attachment 4936