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Thread: well, the darn thing is out

  1. #1801
    Senior Member pelago's Avatar
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    BRAKES, HERE IS WHERE I AM AT
    Prefacing this with the statement that being able to stop is a good thing, Magoo will stop.....eventually
    I removed the push rod, I also confirmed that the pedal system is in correctly, I measured the free play that i have before the master cylinder engages and it is 2 1/4" THE MANUAL INDICATES ADJUST THE PUSH ROD TO HAVE 1/2" FREE TRAVEL.... THE BEST I CAN ADJ IS TO LENGTHEN IT AND GAIN MAYBE 1/2" OF TRAVEL, AND YES IT MADE A DIFFERENCE, NOT MUCH BUT IT DID MAKE IT STOP A LITTLE BETTER BUT STILL VERY VERY BAD AND DANGEROUS

    MEASURED THE PUSH ROD AT ITS SHORTEST AND IT IS 7"

    GOT TO HAVE MORE, SO I TOOK THE PUSH ROD TO A LOCAL GARAGE THAT WAS RECOMMENDED AND I WAS TOLD HE WILL WELD SMALL JOBS. WHEN I GOT THERE I SHOWED HIM WHAT I HAD AND EXPLAINED THE PROBLEM AND EXPLAINED MY GOAL AND HE SAID "WHAT JEEP ARE YOU RESTORING A M151?" I SAID "NO A M38A1" HE LOOKED AT ME AND SAID "DAMN I USED TO DRIVE ONE OF THOSE"
    So a welding we did, i had prepared a short piece of steel to add to the end of the push rod, but it was a bit thicker in diameter, he said wait a minute and went into back of his shop and came back in ten minutes with a short piece of steel that was same diameter. he then promptly welded it together and did a great job, few minutes on a grinder and the weld was no longer portruding outside the diameter of the repaired and longer push rod.
    I then said this is great and how much do i owe you and he looked at me and said "semper fi bro, no charge just bring the jeep around when you are driving it" WOW

    LENGTHENED PUSH ROD.jpg


    I went to Kaiser catalog and looked up the push rod, and there were some questions and answers as part of the web page and lo and behold there were comments about the push rod not being long enough..
    now my brake system is all new, lines, wheel cylinders, shoes and drums in good shape, all new stuff. and i tested the system by my son pushing the pedal and watching the shoes move, and only one moved and it took another pump to get the other shoe to move on all four wheels. What is the common denominator to this... THE MASTER CYLINDER... I got out the old one that was shot and the walls for the cylinders rusty as hell. but the pump was at the top, stuck the push rod in and it only when in a little before it engaged the frozen cylinder, then i stuck the push rod in the new master and damn it went in a whole lot (a bunch) deeper???
    something aint right
    went back to the page in catalog and looked again and the push rod for the cj2 is CONSIDERABLY LONGER but in construction and layout it is the same... hmm hmm I wonder

    called kaiser and they had no idea, but mike said it has to be something in the set up of the vehicle and he said that they had sold 843 master cylinders, i then told him about the comments on thepage about the push rod not being long enough? he said now he has no idea what the issue is or how to correct it, told him i had to lengthen the push rod somewhat and see what happends. he agreed

    now here is the plan
    since the pedal at rest is engaged by the return spring i am going to put the lengthened push rod in and measure what has to be removed to enable the push rod to just touch the cylinder piston and then do it again and then shorten the re done push rod to what the master needs. I have the push rod adjusted to its shortest length and will just see what happens
    Last edited by pelago; 09-11-2019 at 06:45 AM.

  2. #1802
    Senior Member bmorgil's Avatar
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    It sounds like the piston in the Master Cylinder is relieved much deeper at the push rod touch point on the new vs the old. Man those brakes are beating on you! What else are you going to find?

    It sounds like you have it now. After finally getting mine adjusted well, my 3A stops OK. It will lock up the tires in the stones. I imagine Schwarzenegger could get it to screech the tires on pavement. They are most definitely not disc's! For a 2000lb Jeep, with a sub sonic top speed, it is not to bad. I love the nostalgia of the original brakes.

  3. #1803
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    On the best day, when new, you'd be hard pressed to lock a wheel completely down on hard tack, in an early CJ with 9" brakes. The 11" on the A1 and newer were an improvement, but the vehicle weight went up as well, canceling out the upgrade.
    The problem with foreign made parts is that they are not exactly like the original. This is to prevent being sued over patents and licensing fees. Inferior products, more or less. It isn't Kaiser Willys point to sell junk, but to be competitive with the rest of the Heep resto crowd. Omix has flooded the market with their products, and the typical tight wad like myself will buy the bargain piece... That is until you find out exactly what you get. A Wagner master cylinder is between $50 to$60, where a Crown is $30 and change. You get what you pay for. Spend more now to do it once, or buy junk and replace it again in a few years.

  4. #1804
    Senior Member pelago's Avatar
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    well, got better brakes now, actually shortened the one i had made longer it is only about 1/2" longer than it was but working a hell of a lot better,. and once it was in i lengthened it, and got the free play down to a inch. and i still have to adjust the individual wheels, my skills at that are lacking. but i know a guy that has the skills and he said be glad to do it...

    leak at the rear end stopped?? maybe had too much juice in it?? could be

    but will have to pull the oil pump, had to do this wtice before and tried to re use gasket, which (i know) you cant do that

    HOWEVER MY ELDEST SON AND I DROVE AROUND FOR A HOUR AND WENT TO BURGER KING AND GOT HONKED AT, TWICE BY GOOD LOOKING WOMEN IN CONVERTABLES

  5. #1805
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    Drips and Honks; Part of Having an Old Jeep

    [QUOTE leak at the rear end stopped?? maybe had too much juice in it?? could be

    That is a definite possibility. If I fill my differential to spec (level ground, fill untill it drips out the fill plug) it will proceed to drip and throw out through vent until it is about two knuckles on my pinky down from where started. It settles there and I'm tired of fighting with it, so it won.

    HOWEVER MY ELDEST SON AND I DROVE AROUND FOR A HOUR AND WENT TO BURGER KING AND GOT HONKED AT, TWICE BY GOOD LOOKING WOMEN IN CONVERTABLES[/QUOTE]

    Get used to it - Old Jeeps are Chick Magnets and people love old Jeeps.

    Now, when you add a good looking dog - the girls really flock around!

  6. #1806
    Senior Member pelago's Avatar
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    "Now, when you add a good looking dog - the girls really flock around! " look out world here comes the jakester fastest tongue in the west

  7. #1807
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    I believe I'll leave that last statement alone....

  8. #1808
    Senior Member pelago's Avatar
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    LEAN/RICH MIX
    do not have the finesse that is needed to adj this, think i am running too rich

  9. #1809
    Senior Member bmorgil's Avatar
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    Hook up your tach. Warm it up good. Set the idle about 700. Turn the adjusting screw in until the RPM's begin to drop. Turn it back out 1 turn. Turn the idle back down to 600 or 650 depending on your preference for idle. (I like 650 book says 600) This should work great for you. If you keep turning out past one turn, at some point the RPM's might/should start to fall off again. That would be the much too rich point.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 09-12-2019 at 05:07 PM.

  10. #1810
    Senior Member bmorgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmwillys View Post
    I believe I'll leave that last statement alone....
    Yes, wise gmwillys, the Forum might tell us to edit and get the flock out of here.

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