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Thread: 1951 Willys Pick Up

  1. #31
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    Where did the head gasket come from? I invest in engine kits from Felpro, and do not have any real issues. The gasket should be the same on both sides, and should only line up perfectly on one side with all the reliefs in the block. A good gasket does not need any sealer to work. There are some instances where when in a bind, some copper sealer could be used to seal up putting on a head, but this is a temporary fix.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by gmwillys View Post
    Where did the head gasket come from? I invest in engine kits from Felpro, and do not have any real issues. The gasket should be the same on both sides, and should only line up perfectly on one side with all the reliefs in the block. A good gasket does not need any sealer to work. There are some instances where when in a bind, some copper sealer could be used to seal up putting on a head, but this is a temporary fix.
    I got an overhaul kit from Kaiser Willys. It came with that. As for it going only one way, if you place the gasket on and everything lines up then flip it over and turn it from side to side everything will line up again. I wonder if when I get it started and it warms up I check the bolts again and tighten that might stop the leak.
    I don't think my head gasket had a makers name on it. In fact, I don't remember seeing any thing written on the wrapper. I would have thought they'd have put what side went up.

  3. #33
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    You are right, the gaskets will go either way. I forgot to look today at the head gasket I received within the pile of parts.
    Ok, I looked at the gasket set I have, and it is a Crown set, and it doesn't say what side is up. Both sides are the same as far as the make up of the materials. To me, it seems a bit thin. If everything is perfectly flat, it should work alright.
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    Last edited by gmwillys; 02-17-2019 at 08:55 PM.

  4. #34
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    Let me put some words together .....

    We'll joog that sucker up! (Technical term there for readjusting ....)

  5. #35
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    Let's try ito readjust the regulator for an 8-volt battery.

    Now, before I start – a word of warning. I’ve not done this procedure – I’ve just read about it. That’s kind of like that guy who isn’t a pilot or doctor, but he did stay in a whatever hotel last night.

    Second of all, there is nothing I can find about 8-volt regulators, so we’ll have to do some mad science here. Where do we want to set the regulator charge cut-out voltage? Specs for 6-volt regulators say that at about normal temperatures (70 – 80 degrees), the voltage regulator should cut out at about 7.32 – 7.35 volts. I’ll call that 7.3 for our purposes. A six- volt battery has three cells, so that is 2.43 volts per cell. An 8-volt battery has four cells, so I want to charge it to about 9.72 volts, call it 9.7. Now, this is not going to be critical since we are using that battery to spin over a 6-volt starter and if we get it up to 9.3 or 9.5 volts, it is still an improvement over the original 6-volt battery. But, we’ll do all we can to get it to 9.7.

    Let’s talk about how the voltage regulator actually does its thing in regard to charge voltage. There are three relays in a voltage regulator. One of them has three or four turns of really big wire and a lot of turns of little wire. That is the reverse current cutout relay. We won’t work on that one.

    The middle one has several turns of really big wire. That is the circuit breaker. We’ll leave it alone too. The last one has a lot of turns of little wire. That is the relay that performs the voltage regulation function and that’s the one we will work with.

    How does it work?

    This is a bit simplified, but if battery voltage is low, the voltage regulator relay contacts are closed, current flows into the field of the generator and the generator puts out a charge current (and raises battery voltage). The relay contacts are held closed by a spring and lever arrangement. As battery voltage comes up, more current flows through the relay coil and the magnetic force on the contact lever gets stronger – just like that wire and nail magnet you made in middle school. When the voltage gets high enough, the contacts open, no field current flows into the generator, the current/voltage drops, the contacts close again …. and so on. The contacts will open and close maybe a 100 times a second – more like a buzzer than a clunk-clack relay.

    What we are going to try to do is hold the contacts closed with more force from the spring and that will take more force from the magnet/solenoid to open the contacts. Generating that force will take more current through the coil and that can only come from a higher voltage across the coil – our 9.7 volts from the battery.

    I would start by seeing just where the regulator is already set. And, to do that, you need the engine running and the generator hooked up. Fire things up with the 8-volt battery and see where the battery tops off. I’d guess around 7.3 or 7.4 volts. (It may not drop off all that much unless you draw it down). Once you find a starting point – here we go.

    Pull the voltage regulator – tag the three wires. Take the unit to a clean bench and take off the top. Find the relay with all of the turns of little wire – it will be on the end. The picture shows what a typical unit looks like. See the tabs on the spring? Bend the tabs to spread the spring a bit to increase the spring pressure. How much? Dern if I know! Don’t get too enthusiastic though.

    Put it back together. Fire it up. You should see a charge on the ammeter. Watch the voltage on the battery terminals with a meter. If we did good – it should top off higher than it did originally. If it’s not up to our 9.7 volts, spread the tabs a bit more. I don’t know just how much spring pressure we can get by spreading tabs – but we should be able to get a higher charge cutout voltage that the original 7.3 volts.

    The good news is that unless you break off a tab (!!!@#$$%%#), you can put it back where it was if you want to go back to a 6-volt system. And – now you’re an expert.

    Let us know how this works…..

    (And, after I wrote all of that - there is a redneck way to do it. Disconnect the lead from the field terminal of the generator, take a clip lead and ground the field terminal and let the generator charge at full current for a few minutes. Watch the battery voltage and don't let it run for more than a few minutes at wide open charge...)
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  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by LarrBeard View Post
    Let's try ito readjust the regulator for an 8-volt battery.

    Now, before I start – a word of warning. I’ve not done this procedure – I’ve just read about it. That’s kind of like that guy who isn’t a pilot or doctor, but he did stay in a whatever hotel last night.

    Second of all, there is nothing I can find about 8-volt regulators, so we’ll have to do some mad science here. Where do we want to set the regulator charge cut-out voltage? Specs for 6-volt regulators say that at about normal temperatures (70 – 80 degrees), the voltage regulator should cut out at about 7.32 – 7.35 volts. I’ll call that 7.3 for our purposes. A six- volt battery has three cells, so that is 2.43 volts per cell. An 8-volt battery has four cells, so I want to charge it to about 9.72 volts, call it 9.7. Now, this is not going to be critical since we are using that battery to spin over a 6-volt starter and if we get it up to 9.3 or 9.5 volts, it is still an improvement over the original 6-volt battery. But, we’ll do all we can to get it to 9.7.

    Let’s talk about how the voltage regulator actually does its thing in regard to charge voltage. There are three relays in a voltage regulator. One of them has three or four turns of really big wire and a lot of turns of little wire. That is the reverse current cutout relay. We won’t work on that one.

    The middle one has several turns of really big wire. That is the circuit breaker. We’ll leave it alone too. The last one has a lot of turns of little wire. That is the relay that performs the voltage regulation function and that’s the one we will work with.

    How does it work?

    This is a bit simplified, but if battery voltage is low, the voltage regulator relay contacts are closed, current flows into the field of the generator and the generator puts out a charge current (and raises battery voltage). The relay contacts are held closed by a spring and lever arrangement. As battery voltage comes up, more current flows through the relay coil and the magnetic force on the contact lever gets stronger – just like that wire and nail magnet you made in middle school. When the voltage gets high enough, the contacts open, no field current flows into the generator, the current/voltage drops, the contacts close again …. and so on. The contacts will open and close maybe a 100 times a second – more like a buzzer than a clunk-clack relay.

    What we are going to try to do is hold the contacts closed with more force from the spring and that will take more force from the magnet/solenoid to open the contacts. Generating that force will take more current through the coil and that can only come from a higher voltage across the coil – our 9.7 volts from the battery.

    I would start by seeing just where the regulator is already set. And, to do that, you need the engine running and the generator hooked up. Fire things up with the 8-volt battery and see where the battery tops off. I’d guess around 7.3 or 7.4 volts. (It may not drop off all that much unless you draw it down). Once you find a starting point – here we go.

    Pull the voltage regulator – tag the three wires. Take the unit to a clean bench and take off the top. Find the relay with all of the turns of little wire – it will be on the end. The picture shows what a typical unit looks like. See the tabs on the spring? Bend the tabs to spread the spring a bit to increase the spring pressure. How much? Dern if I know! Don’t get too enthusiastic though.

    Put it back together. Fire it up. You should see a charge on the ammeter. Watch the voltage on the battery terminals with a meter. If we did good – it should top off higher than it did originally. If it’s not up to our 9.7 volts, spread the tabs a bit more. I don’t know just how much spring pressure we can get by spreading tabs – but we should be able to get a higher charge cutout voltage that the original 7.3 volts.

    The good news is that unless you break off a tab (!!!@#$$%%#), you can put it back where it was if you want to go back to a 6-volt system. And – now you’re an expert.

    Let us know how this works…..

    (And, after I wrote all of that - there is a redneck way to do it. Disconnect the lead from the field terminal of the generator, take a clip lead and ground the field terminal and let the generator charge at full current for a few minutes. Watch the battery voltage and don't let it run for more than a few minutes at wide open charge...)
    Ok, Lets try this again. My second attempt to thank you for that very detailed post.
    For you and guys like gmwillys and others to take the time to help us out means a lot. If youall lived closer to Georgia I'd buy lunch.
    I will get this truck running and I'll let you know how the adjustment went. Thanks again Sir.

  7. #37
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    Tim,
    This is what we do. We all learn something from the contributions like LarrBeard's in-depth regulator adjustment. The great thing about a Willys is that the Jeep is really just a platform for enginuity. They are not like a Chevy Chevelle or a Dodge Daytona, where the VIN tells what color thread was used in the headliner. With the variety of factory and aftermarket options, there is something to learn about every day. To me, it never gets routine. We appreciate everyone's time taken to ask a question, show some pictures, or even gloat over a smoking good deal they received.

    I can almost see western Georgia from our back yard. Be careful offering lunch!
    Last edited by gmwillys; 02-18-2019 at 08:09 PM.

  8. #38
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    ",..Thanks again Sir. .."

    Harumph. Don't call me "Sir". I served as a Senior Chief Petty Officer in the Reserve of the world's greatest Navy for 28 and a half years. I'm not a "Sir".

    And, you are very welcome. It's what we do here. When you get deeper into your project, you will find something interesting, some problem you solve or some trick to do something an easier way. Then, you share it. That's payforward.
    .

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LarrBeard View Post
    ",..Thanks again Sir. .."

    Harumph. Don't call me "Sir". I served as a Senior Chief Petty Officer in the Reserve of the world's greatest Navy for 28 and a half years. I'm not a "Sir".

    And, you are very welcome. It's what we do here. When you get deeper into your project, you will find something interesting, some problem you solve or some trick to do something an easier way. Then, you share it. That's payforward.
    .
    I get a smile when I hear someone say don't call me Sir. I'll just blame it on my old school values. And yes, paying it forward is a very good thing.
    I got my starter back yesterday. If I don't have to work I'll get to put it on this weekend.
    gmwillys, If I find myself going through Alabama lunch is on me. I hear there's some good BBQ over there.

  10. #40
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    Tim,

    I made the same mistake when addressing Chief LarrBeard. Old school values are abundant on here, so no problems there.

    I hope that you have better luck with this starter!

    There are a couple of really good holes in the wall BBQ joints here in town. You don't owe me anything, but would be up for a good lunch. The long suffering Misses and I were talking about needing to make it back out to Tybee Island again soon. The Crab Shack can't be beat. I want to haul the Heep down there to drive around while staying over there.

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