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Thread: New guy - Have a lot to learn

  1. #31
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMT-1109 View Post
    I see people talking about a ground strap. Am I supposed to have one? If so, where should it be? I can't find one anywhere which isn't helping my problem.
    I have a feeling about your problem, but there may be a couple of things happening. Pulling that battery down to 4.5-volts says there is a LOT of current being drawn from it.

    I am going to assume the 4.5 volts is across the battery posts, not the clamps. Just a little corrosion under the clamps can add a lot of drop during cranking. Just for kicks, measure the drop from the center of the post to the battery clamp. That should be no more than a tenth of a volt during cranking.

    I am also assuming a good ground connection to the engine block or starter mounting bolts.

    Voltage drop across the positive cable to the solenoid should only be a couple of tenths of a volt too. I am interested where the 2.5 volts (4.5 – 2.0) goes when you crank. The voltage drop across the solenoid should be only another couple of tenths. If you are seeing a couple of volts – you definitely have a bad solenoid.

    Once you get a good solenoid in the Jeep, it’s back to looking at the starter. Pulling the battery down to 4.5 volts says there is a LOT of draw by that starter. You might have a short in the armature. If the starter does not stop on that set of shorted commutator bars, it will crank past the shorted bars. But, if the starter stops on a shorted set of commutator bars, the starter draws a bunch of current and won’t turn. If the starter does have an issue, it may have burned the contacts in the solenoid and it may be the root cause of the defective solenoid.

    Taking the starter to a good auto electrical shop and having it checked would answer the question for you. Auto Zone and the like can’t test a starter like this one – it takes a specialized shop with an old guy to do it right.

    You asked about a ground strap. Ground straps generally are used to make a good connection between the frame and the engine block where the battery negative terminal is connected. They are often just jumpered across an engine vibration isolator. Ground straps make lights and such work better, but they are not a part of this cranking problem.

    Finding that lost 2.5 volts from the positive battery terminal to the starter post is going to go a long way toward fixing the problem.

  2. #32
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    Thanks for the replies gentlemen!

    GMWillys - I got brand new cables made to length with ends from an old guy electrician that's very reputable in my area. They were excellently made in my opinion. I have 1g cables as well. It's a Ford style solenoid that's mounted on the firewall, not the starter.

    LarrBeard - I measured the voltage on the battery posts, not the clamps. I can check the difference between the posts and clamps once everything is back together. I am taking the starter to the old electrical guy tomorrow to have tested and freshened up. I guess I should just replace the solenoid so I know that's not the problem. Is that something I can get from Napa maybe? You said you have a feeling what's wrong, would that be the starter?

    I hope the problem is fixed after all this. If not, at least I know I have some new parts on the ol Jeep. I plan on putting a 6 volt battery back in it also. Not that I think that's causing any problems, but my charger only has a 6v or 12v setting.

  3. #33
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    Sounds good on the cables. You might have a break down in the copper windings within the starter, causing your excessive draw, but then again, the armature might just need to be turned to clean up for better continuity. LarrBeard is right on the money about the starter shops. Napa will have the Ford style solenoid sitting on the shelf.

    Good luck!

  4. #34
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    Starter Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by CMT-1109 View Post
    You said you have a feeling what's wrong, would that be the starter?
    It's hard to make guesses when I can't get dirty with you, but I'll bet a beverage you have a bad starter that may have burned the solenoid contacts.

    I'm not an expert (or anything close) on the little jeeps, but I just caught a word we have been using in this discussion..

    You say "solenoid" in your posts. The original CJ-2A did not have a solenoid, it has a foot operated push-button stater switch a lot like the old fashioned dimmer switches.

    From the looks of the stub of cable on the starter, I think we are using the term solenoid when we are talking about a starter switch.

    Oh, by the way, when you go back to 6-volts, don't forget to change or reset the regulator. A regulator set to 8.4 volts will boil a 6-volt battery.

    Let us know what you find ...

  5. #35
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    I corrected my earlier statement about the floor actuated switch. LarrBeard is correct, it isn't a solenoid. With yours being mounted on the firewall, it will be a Ford style solenoid.
    Last edited by gmwillys; 04-25-2019 at 12:01 PM.

  6. #36
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    I don't have the foot push-button starter, just a push button starter on the dash so I know it was converted at some point. I'll replace the solenoid too just to make sure I'm covering all my bases.

    What about the bushing in the bell housing? Do you ever really have to replace them? I'll attach a pic of the solenoid.

    I dropped off the starter today to be checked and rebuilt if necessary so I'll definitely keep you all updated to what it might be.

    Thanks for all the info!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by CMT-1109; 04-25-2019 at 05:20 PM.

  7. #37
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    NOW, I Understand

    Quote Originally Posted by CMT-1109 View Post
    I don't have the foot push-button starter, just a push button starter on the dash so I know it was converted at some point.
    OK, now I understand what we're talking about. I slept through that part of class - sorry Coach.

    I'm still betting a beverage on a starter problem that may have damaged the solenoid.

  8. #38
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    The bushing can last a lifetime as long as the bearings in the starter are good. The bushing is there to support the end of the Bendix as the engine rolls over. As long as there wasn't any excessive grinding while the engine is being started. If you were to install a new clutch, then I would go ahead and put a new bushing in as a good measure.

    The solenoid is a single pole, older version then a typical Ford two pole solenoid. No big deal, but Napa will ask.
    Last edited by gmwillys; 04-26-2019 at 03:13 PM.

  9. #39
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    I replaced the solenoid tonight and I'm waiting to hear about the starter. I actually got the solenoid from AutoZone (luckily I ended up with an older guy that knew immediately what I needed). It matched perfectly! Thanks for that heads up though gmwilly.

    LarrBeard - what's your beverage of choice? I might have to send you one after all the help you've provided me thus far! I'm also pretty sure the starter is in need of a rebuild. I'll definitely let you know once I hear from the guys that have it.

  10. #40
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    " ...what's your beverage of choice?... "

    I'm no connysewer of beverages - just whatever's free and closest. I hope we find the starter issue.

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