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Thread: My horn is still great... but my carburetor isn't!

  1. #61
    Senior Member Mark J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarrBeard View Post
    You are welcome.

    The idea of taking a spark plug cable, plugging it into the tower on the coil and using a spark plug to check for spark as you make and break the points is a good idea.
    That checks everything but the cap and rotor.
    You haven't swapped a wire to the plugs have you? 1 - 3 - 4 - 2 .... 1 - 3 - 2 - 4 doesn't work all that well. Ask me how I know....
    This has been challenging!
    My plug wires are in the correct order. I wish that was the issue, darn it.

    I'm sure there is something wrong in my distributor now.
    With help from a friend (he literally is a rocket scientist... he's got stuff on Mars!) who came by, we determined and ruled out timing and carbonation. I did remove the Solex carb and put my rebuilt Carter back on. It had clogged so that's why I put the other one back on. For some reason I just like the Carter better. That's as far as we got that day.
    After my last post I "for sure" thought I had a bad NEW coil, even though I think that's very rare. But, the "new new" coil was doing the same thing... weak spark. The problem was that I was testing it without a condenser in the circuit (when isolating it from the distributor).
    Next my friend helped out from his home by rigging up a way for me to test my coil independent of the distributor, as he agreed that I should see a hefty spark, one to be careful with!
    I added a photo of his set up. (Ballast resistor added to his coil) Sure enough, when I went by - I clearly saw a nice big blue spark jumping in his makeshift contacts, that reminded me of a mini Tesla coil.
    I brought that entire setup home, reconnected it and duplicated it to make sure of the connections. Then I disconnected his coil and jumped in my coil, making sure it was completely disconnected from any vehicle wiring.
    And...
    I got a NICE BIG BLUE SPARK!
    Now the only thing I could think of was my condenser, again. So I disconnected his high voltage cap and stuck in my condenser.
    And, I again got a nice big blue spark.
    With that said, I'll go back out to the garage today and poke around with my distributor and double check what I thought I already checked.
    Still this is good news I think, although it seems this should be simple stuff and I wonder why I'm so challenged by it?? Too much wine? Too many woman? (Well no that's not happening)
    In the meantime, I ordered a new electronic ignition type distributor from Kaiser Willys in case I can't figure out the distributor issue. It seems they have mostly good reviews but I really hate replacing my original stuff with Chinese "goods."
    There's my update.
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  2. #62
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Wine and those women......

    Mark, make sure there is a solid 12 volts at the coil when you are doing your checking. In other words make sure there is 12 volts (or 6v in a 6v system) at the coil when you are doing the actual testing not just a key on check. It is possible a poor connection or contact from the switch to the coil could be at fault. Under load you may loose the voltage. I think gm alluded to this earlier,there has been more than one worn out or bad start switch. If you have a solid 12 volts (or 6v) at the coil make sure the coil is grounded well. No resistance in the coil ground circuits.

    If you are considering electronic ignition, you can use your original distributor and convert it. The Pertronix set up goes right in and is stock appearing. It is quite easy to switch back and forth between points and electronic. https://pertronixbrands.com/pages/pertronix-ignition . This is what I am running in the 50'.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Mark J's Avatar
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    I did already test for that voltage.
    Today just for kicks, I added a few drops to the distributor oil port. I don't think I've ever added oil, at least since 1977. I double checked my points. The thin curved contact metal never fit all that flush. So just in case it was making any intermittent contact to ground (which I checked before) I clipped out some of the metal so it fit "better" into place.
    It fired right up. I tweaked the carburetor a little and drove about ten minutes. It was fine... nearly perfect but felt like timing needed adjusting just a little.
    BUT... after that ten minutes, it fell back into its misfiring fits!
    I already ordered that electric ignition distributor so I think I'll just give it a try. I feel like I've really ruled out everything else.
    The only thing I can recall now is that this event happened shortly after I installed the new points. But I've REALLY looked at them closely, and also while hand cranking the engine to observe them, checking continuity at each point in the distributor cam, etc.

  4. #64
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Mark, put an ohm meter on the negative wire to the points from the coil. Wiggle it around and pull on it and such. Make sure it isn't broken, making a bad connection or corroded away inside under the insulation.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Mark J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmorgil View Post
    Mark, put an ohm meter on the negative wire to the points from the coil. Wiggle it around and pull on it and such. Make sure it isn't broken, making a bad connection or corroded away inside under the insulation.
    Wiggled, pulled, danced, did hokey pokey, etc... oh and I did that on the wire too. Sadly, the wire is good and full of continuity.

  6. #66
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    OK Mark at least you know what you are dealing with here. The weak spark can only be a few things. You have eliminated a lot. What is the resistance across the closed points? I also noticed you mentioned a ballast resistor. Are you sure it needs one? This depends on the coil and most new coils don't use them. The coil will indicate whether or not it requires a resistor. Running a resistor where none is required will of course cause a weak spark. Running no resistor when one is required however will eventually burn the points and they will develop a high resistance when closed.

    There should be no resistance across the points. I have seen brand new points with film on them stop a lot of progress. Put the ohm meter on them again just to be sure. We will find this gremlin.

    Keep trying Mark, That's a good looking Willys tailgate in the picture! Tell the Rocket Scientist I love the paper clip igniter.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Mark J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmorgil View Post
    OK Mark at least you know what you are dealing with here. The weak spark can only be a few things. You have eliminated a lot. What is the resistance across the closed points? I also noticed you mentioned a ballast resistor. Are you sure it needs one? This depends on the coil and most new coils don't use them. The coil will indicate whether or not it requires a resistor. Running a resistor where none is required will of course cause a weak spark. Running no resistor when one is required however will eventually burn the points and they will develop a high resistance when closed.
    There should be no resistance across the points. I have seen brand new points with film on them stop a lot of progress. Put the ohm meter on them again just to be sure. We will find this gremlin.
    Keep trying Mark, That's a good looking Willys tailgate in the picture! Tell the Rocket Scientist I love the paper clip igniter.
    Hello
    I'm sorry I may have mis-wrote something: the ballast resistor was only in the rocket scientist's (Greg) set up, which was for me to observe how the coil should strongly spark, even if isolated from the distributor. He just happened to have that "no resistor" coil laying around.
    So, that's what I duplicated using my coil, with no resistor as it does have the internal one.
    Anyway - there's no resistance across the points. Greg double checked all my previously double checked tests when he came by.
    Frustrating still! Can there be something internal happening in the distributor? I'd think it would happen ALL the time and not after the vehicle is warmed up. But again, it ran "ok" but there was still slight misfiring, it seems. I originally thought that may be that I needed to fine tune the timing. But just as I thought that was it, it REALLY started to misfire.
    The new distributor will arrive today but I'll be at work, so looks like Saturday will be the day.
    (That Willys tailgate in the photo belongs to Greg's 1948 CJ2A with Buick 225 and 4 speed transmission that he installed way back in the 70's.)

  8. #68
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Yes mark it is possible the distributor is so worn that it is causing the dwell to vary and misfires may be occurring. The thing to look for is side to side (axial play) that would allow the points to change gap. Nothing is allowed. Any will cause dwell changes.

    Do you have an inductive timing light? Try putting it on the coil wire and if you can get it running, watch it for the loss of spark Then try it on each wire.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 07-09-2021 at 05:27 PM.

  9. #69
    Senior Member 5JeepsAz's Avatar
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    Mine had metal shavings in it. Mechanic's gymnastics produced no good result. Finally mechanic scratches his head, put a magnet on stick with some grease in there and shavings jumped onto and stuck to the magnet! Be danged if it didn't immediately and thereafter work perfectly.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Mark J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmorgil View Post
    Yes mark it is possible the distributor is so worn that it is causing the dwell to vary and misfires may be occurring. The thing to look for is side to side (axial play) that would allow the points to change gap. Nothing is allowed. Any will cause dwell changes.
    Do you have an inductive timing light? Try putting it on the coil wire and if you can get it running, watch it for the loss of spark Then try it on each wire.
    First... we did put the timing light on the coil and it was definitely whacky!
    Second and MOST important: IT'S WORKING!
    I installed the new distributor with the new type of adjustment collar (old one won't work; it hits the bottom of distributor), double checking my rotor settings, installed my plugs in proper order and the thing fired right up. I have't even fully adjusted my "rebuilt rebuilt" Carter carburetor or checked timing with the light and it runs nearly perfect. I drove it about 15 minutes and it runs great. I'm amazed at how much power has sprung back from this engine and still very happy with my previous compression readings after installing the new valve.
    Thank you all, again and again. I'm sure I'll have more fun stuff to add but maybe I'll start a new thread for the next subject.
    Now my alternator is whining like mad so tomorrow will be alternator day. It's "only" 40 years old. I will still do a valve adjustment of course so that probably happen Monday. It doesn't seen too hard to do.

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