Hot mess, a 1967 CJ-5 restoration

[davide]

No Bob, you are not nagging at all! I completely appreciate your expertise and have learned so much from you (and everyone else). You explain with great detail on why things should be done a particular way and have kept me from making some big mistakes. I'll have the t-case button up and ready to mate with the tranny tomorrow or Tuesday. With the tranny out, I'm assuming I can fire up the engine again!? Yeah, patience isn't my strongest trait

[gmwillys]

I'd wait until everything is back in place. The probability of the clutch disk moving is very slight, but without the input shaft to support, and keeping everything lined up would be a concern of mine. We are looking for steps forward, and no back pedaling to repair things that could have been avoided. We all get it, it is hard to wait till everything is perfect before going to the next step, but it pays dividends in the grand scheme of things.

[bmorgil]

Hahahaha! I have heard many people ask me "where were you when God passed out the patience?" Same answer every time, "I stepped out of line because I couldn't wait!"

Something about hearing them run is irresistible. I think you would get away with firing it up but as gm is saying if for some reason the clutch disc moves a little, the trans will give you fits going back in.

[davide]

I was a little over optimistic about having the tranny out and bolted up to the t-case by today. The t-case needed a little TLC. The speedo gear set was loaded in cosmoline and needed to be cleaned up. I also removed all the backlash shims on the output shaft housing and cleaned them up. Six in all, various thicknesses. I'll give them a light coat of spray-tack and get the housing all bolted up.

In the meantime today, I revisited the brakes. Even though I bled them way back when putting the master and wheel cylinders on, I still get a pop-up fountain of brake fluid from the master when pressing on the pedal. From what I have been told and have read, this usually means not all the air is out of the system. I went ahead and re-bled all wheels (twice), but still have the fluid fountain. One thing I did notice when bleeding today, the fluid was on the dirty side. Sediment still in the steel lines? Everything else is new. So I am stumped on this. What am I missing?
I also noticed that the brake lights don't work. If I short the wires together on the switch, the lights work. I'll just get a new switch and re-bleed again.

[gmwillys]

As long as you are not getting air bubbles in the fountain, all is good. The fountain means that you are moving fluid back into the reservoir as when the pedal is released. You are correct with your troubleshooting process on the brake light switch. Unfortunately, you'll have to readdress the bleeding process yet another time, although usually you don't have too much air to get in when changing. Brake fluid will pick up any contaminates within the system, even the new components, you'll have a change in the clarity of the brake fluid to a more amber color.

[bmorgil]

davide, when you press on the pedal does it slowly go to the floor as the fluid squirts out the cap or, does it squirt a bit and stop with a solid pedal?

[davide]

The pedal has a solid stop and is not squishy. That's the good news, but when normal pressure is applied, the fountain will pop up past the top of the master. I'd estimate a good 1.5 inches above the fluid level. When light pressure is initially applied, there is little to no fluid rise. I am so tempted to find a non-vented cap or plug this one.

On the switch, I did not look at the condition of the contacts and will probably do that today. I'll clean them up and apply a dab of dielectric grease. My local parts store has the switch in stock, so I have a good backup plan in place.

[bmorgil]

If the fluid is moving that much in the master it has a leak internally, or the valving is bad or installed incorrectly. The cap is vented on all master cylinders to allow for the changes in atmospheric pressure. If they weren't an atmospheric pressure rise in the cylinder (cold to hot), or brake fluid expansion from heat, would begin to apply the brakes.

Something is wrong in your brake system. I would suspect the master cylinder has an internal leak.

[davide]

This morning I picked up the brake light switch and headed back home to call KW parts and discuss the master cylinder situation. Mike picked up the phone and we talked for a bit. He got a good idea of what I was describing and asked if I had checked the free pedal travel. I thought "Hmm" to myself and told him I had not, but knew what he was talking about. I told him I would verify it was in spec and get back should it be ok.
So I got back at it...the initial free travel seemed to be good. I'm guessing 1/2" free play, but I saw that the rod assembly was covered in 56 years of muck. A little disappointed in myself for not cleaning it up when I was replacing everything, I removed the adjustment rod assembly. It is now completely cleaned up and reinstalled with really no change to the free play adjustment. At the same time, I put the new brake light switch in.
Of course I have to re-bleed all lines again and check for my fountain pop-up. I did press down on the pedal and did see air bubbles now in the master. This time, I will continue to bleed until all cylinders have nice clear fluid. This way, there is absolutely nothing more to be done and start to concentrate on the possibility of a bad master.

[bmorgil]

Upon application of pressure on the brake pedal there will be a small amount of fluid movement in the reservoir. If there is a fountain of fluid whenever there is pressure on the pedal, there is an internal leak in the master cylinder.

If you are having trouble with air, did you thoroughly bench bleed the master before it was installed? If you did a good job on the bench bleed and air keeps getting introduced to the system, there is a leak somewhere.