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Thread: Hot mess, a 1967 CJ-5 restoration

  1. #71
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    Bob and Jeff, I have really enjoyed reading your comments and digging into this spec. The cap bearing torque did appear to be ambiguous and now has concrete data for the various axle sizes. Perhaps another entry for this in the Tech Library so others can view it?

  2. #72
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Ask and you shall receive davide!

    https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...ing-Cap-Torque

    On another note, Jeff's point about sealer on the threads. If the carrier bolts in an axle go all the way through the case, they will leak if their isn't sealer on them. Thread locker isn't required, sealer is. High strength thread locker (Red) might prevent the removal of the bolts. It would take a lot of heat to break the bond and the threads are deep in the case. Also if you use anything on bolts that DO NOT go all the way through the case (blind taped holes) the hydraulic effect can cause a few problems from cracked cases to incorrect torque readings. So not only is the torque spec important, whether or not there is sealer or lubricant on the threads is also just as important. Anything on the threads also changes the torque specification. This goes again to Jeff's point of needing a "truthful" complete manual! I will say I haven't found one yet that doesn't have at least one mistake in it. Big books for total perfection!
    Last edited by bmorgil; 11-02-2022 at 03:56 PM.

  3. #73
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    Thanks a lot for the information. I am making notes in my paper service manuals.

    Tech manuals are far from perfect. We used send corrections for tech manuals all the time maintaining the A-10 and U-2. They probably still do.
    Last edited by 51 CJ3; 11-02-2022 at 04:09 PM.
    Jeff
    '51 CJ3A
    '47 CJ2A

  4. #74
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    I see it's been several months since last updating my progress. I'm pretty much done with both axles and brakes. Here is a recap on all that has been done:

    Front axle:
    - New inner seals
    - New sealed axle u-joints (going to a dry hub configuration)
    - New king bearings
    - New front wheel cylinders
    - New front brake hoses and S-tubes
    - New master cylinder
    - New wheel bearing seals
    - New differential cover gasket (LubLocker)

    I have a new pinion seal, but don't have that in yet. All wheel bearings were in good condition and they were packed with fresh grease. I noted previously that all the tie rod ends were worn, but I put new boots on them and have regreased all zerks. I do plan on replacing them in the near future.

    Rear axle:
    - New wheel cylinders
    - New brake hose
    - New shoes
    - New differential cover gasket (LubLocker)

    I have tapered axle shafts and they appear in great condition. I removed the backing plate and other covers to gain access to the bearings. They looked to be in good condition and I filled the zerks with enough grease to push out the old and replace with the new. What I did notice was that both front and rear brake spring hardware did not have any self-adjusting pieces. I don't know if this is standard or it was removed prior to my ownership. The Universal Service Manual suggests that it's there.

    I'm now off to the engine (Dauntless V6). As this has sat for many, many years, I am taking every bit of advice given by Larrbeard and others on how to proceed (Start-up, Best practices). Most of which I was aware of, but I failed to take into account the cooling, fuel and ignition systems during this process. I am grateful for everyones input to this.

    I'll take some pictures later and post them, although there is not too much to see. Mostly because it's not in pieces anymore
    Last edited by davide; 02-24-2023 at 10:20 PM.

  5. #75
    Senior Member TJones's Avatar
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    The Dauntless will make you pull your hair out davide, only because it’s an odd fire motor and not an even fire. Just take your time and do exactly what Larrbeard suggest and if you run into any problems or questions feel free to ask.

  6. #76
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Your progressing great davide! Lets see those pictures.

    The self adjusters when they first came out on vehicles in the early 60's, weren't well received by the general Mechanic population. Automotive shops were still the place to get your car fixed, and they fixed all brands. Not all dealerships had the ability to service cars yet. The Automotive O.E's didn't have the control over service they have now. The self adjusters were seen as troublesome, and poor service information on how they worked and were repaired, led to their removal. The logic of course was the old way was better. As a young lad I was taught to remove them for two reasons. The vehicle would need to continue to come back for brake adjustments just like before, and there would be no problem with the self adjuster causing a "Come Back". We were wrong! We need gmwillys here to jump in but, I think 1967 was the first year for self adjusters on the CJ. If that is true, it is quite possible it could have been built with the older manual adjust brakes depending on inventory at the Willys plant.

  7. #77
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    From what I recall, '67-'68 was the first year for self adjusting brakes. My '63 wagon has manual adjusters just like the previous generations. The bread and butter of your local gas service station was oils and maintenance, i.e. valve, clutch and brake adjustments.

  8. #78
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for all your feedback!

    I have been overthinking which differential fluid to add to the axles. I know it has to be limited slip and I found that Lucas has a Heavy Duty 80W-90 gear oil. The bottle labeling says that it can be used in limited slip differentials and their Technical Data Sheet says that "it exceeds the PG-2 Limited Slip GL Classification". I just don't want to assume that the limited slip additive is combine in the gear oil. I want to know absolute that it is.

    Here is why I say this...back in the day, I worked at an AMC, Jeep, Eagle and Renault dealership. I gave our techs countless bottles of the limited slip additive. Perhaps in the early 80's it wasn't incorporated in Penzoil's products we used and now it is. I will probably end up calling Lucas tomorrow.

  9. #79
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    GM had the same type of Whale guts smelling friction modifier that you had put in with the already ripe conventional gear lube. Products like the synthetic Lucus claim that you do not need the friction modifier, but I would let Dr. Dana chime in to see what he knows as facts.

  10. #80
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    You are correct davide, back in the day we had to add the "Friction Modifier". When wet clutch type differentials (Posi-Traction) were introduced, gear lubes did not require the friction modifiers. The new clutch type differentials would gall the clutches without the modifier. This caused clutch "Chatter" when turning which could become severe as the clutches became galled. Eventually they would stick together and cause some big problems when turning. The differential would make a banging and popping sound when turning. It sounded like something was definitely broken.

    When you drove straight down the highway, the gear lube would sling off the spinning clutch packs drying them out. When you made your first turn, the clutches would temporarily "weld" together then break loose. The sound was amazing. You would swear when it got real bad that the differential gears were in pieces. The car would jump and bang. Some drivers would leave the car for a tow truck, it was that bad. The service stations and dealerships received a ton of complaints. You could not see anything wrong on inspection of the vehicle. Only a complete differential tear down would reveal the galled clutches. It was truly hard to believe the noise this could make. A lot of head scratching when it first happened. As we can see, the effects of that early "Recall" are still felt today.

    All Axle Manufactures (Dana Spicer and O.E's) who introduced the option, quickly had to respond with bulletins and small bottles of friction modifier (appropriately named "Skunk Oil", gmwillys is being kind... it stunk much worse than Whale guts) to be added immediately and at lube changes. The Friction Modifier sticks to the plates and prevents the lack of lubrication. Today it is important to read the label. Most GL5 gear lubes will state they are for Posi-Traction or Limited slip Differentials. If it does not say it is for Limited Slip applications you should not use it in a clutch type differential without an additive. Calling the Lube Manufacture for clarification davide, is always a good idea! That's my go to when in doubt. I haven't had to add Skunk Oil for a long time. I still have a bottle laying around from the 70's just to remind me. I would say almost all modern GL5 lubes have the friction modifier in them.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 03-01-2023 at 07:52 AM.

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