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Thread: Hot mess, a 1967 CJ-5 restoration

  1. #141
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Industrial engines and truck motors etc., sometimes had the seats hardened way back in time. As gm has said however, passenger car engines not until the mid 70's. By 1986 fuel was completely lead free. The effect of the lack of lead in the fuel is most pronounced in hard working engines. I have had the opportunity to see quite a few engines that suffered from exhaust valve seat recession. Early attempts to stop it with valve rotators and the like, helped. The harder an engine is working, the more the effect will be. I have seen engines come apart with relatively low mileage, no hardened seats and have exhaust valve recession. I have also seen high mileage with little to no effect. It truly depends on how much load, RPM and time spent under load. There was still some lead in the fuel, gradually phasing it out by 1985 or so. Engines built prior to the mid 70's without hardened seats started showing up with recession in the late 80's, as lead was completely phased out by 1985 - 87. I saw first hand more than one cylinder head with the exhaust valves sunk in so far the engine would no longer run.

    I wouldn't sweat this too much. If you are not sure if you have hardened exhaust seats, an occasional tank of no-lead wont hurt. A can of top end lube in the fuel once and a while will do just fine, unless you are towing a lot or running at full load for extended periods. The ethanol in the fuel is more destructive to parts that are incompatible, like pre-80's fuel lines.

    The only way to know if someone has installed hardened seats or, if the seats were originally induction hardened, is a visual inspection. Did you have a valve job done on this engine? if so the machinist would know.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 03-31-2023 at 11:38 AM.

  2. #142
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    The following link is for information to run unleaded fuel in piston engine aircraft but everything concerning fuel for an older engine is directly related: https://www.autofuelstc.com/approved...airfames.phtml

    I run unleaded in a 1942 Continental engine. I run 4-5 gallons of 100 low lead aviation fuel for for every 20 or so mogas. That’s probably more lead than needed but cylinders run about $1,000 used and are getting harder to find (no one is making new OEM cylinders) so I figure it is cheap insurance. I have seen the valve recession mentioned on the website. I have sent off 2 for repairs and neither could be repaired. I run my jeep about the same way. I wouldn’t waste my time or money on store bought additives when I can get what I need from a pump.
    Jeff
    '51 CJ3A
    '47 CJ2A

  3. #143
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    An airplane engine defines hard working all the time! That is a great example of where exhaust valve recession would definitely occur in the absence of a hardened valve seat or, valve seat lubricant. In extended high load automotive engines without protection, you can expect the same thing.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 03-31-2023 at 11:59 AM.

  4. #144
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    You guys always give me a lot to think about and have been an immense help in my restoration efforts!

    I finished the oil sender/gauge line. The 3" nipple worked out great and Bubba would be pleased I kept it simple. I add the 10W30 VR1 oil and spun up the shaft under the distributor to get the upper end lubricated and see if the dash gauge works. I don't really know how long it will take to get the oil circulated to the top end, but the oil gauge took little time to register ~25 PSI. I am calling this a major victory.

    IMG_2241.jpg image0.jpg
    Last edited by davide; 04-03-2023 at 09:05 AM.

  5. #145
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    Happy Easter all!

    Since getting the oil sender and gauge line finished, I have been putting things back together. The distributor is back in. New thermostat, upper radiator hose, bypass and heater hoses are in. The lower radiator hose has not arrive yet. All fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump are new as well as fuel filter and line leading to the carburetor. A new ignition switch is in as my Dad lost the original key. The battery cables were removed and cleaned of grease and acid corrosion.

    I have removed the battery tray and it is not in the greatest of shape. Acid has chewed through some of the metal and the left support strut is completely gone. I called KW parts as they don't list a replacement. They and other Jeep parts vendors don't seem to have a replacement for the early CJ-5's. I'll do my best to clean it up, but are there any suggestions or workarounds?

    I also noticed something unusual when I bumped into the brake pedal. I saw fluid coming from the top of the master cylinder cap. Everything is new on the brake system so I'm guessing I over-filled the reservoir. As I bled the master and wheel cylinders, I'm a bit concerned about this.

    Sorry, one more thing. I bought a new push-in breather cap for the valve cover. The original grommet was very hard, deteriorating and broken in places. The cap I got had a grommet on it, but it was too small for the valve cover. Again, I looked in KW parts and did not see it listed. A few Google searches didn't turn up much either. Can someone point me in a direction here?

    Thanks all! Save some ham slices for sandwiches tomorrow
    Last edited by davide; 04-09-2023 at 06:22 PM.

  6. #146
    Senior Member 56willys's Avatar
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    Not sure what your plans are but just an idea for the battery tray if you wanted to get all new. We did his on our 49 F1. If you can get an old bedframe or other angle iron. Cut it up with 45 degree angles at the corners. Weld it into a rectangle so that the bat. fits inside (like how the mattress would have). Then attach some all thread vertically coming above the bat. with a steel bar horizontal across the battery. With some wingnuts on the all thread. You can then make whatever pipe or angle iron go off the bottom to the frame. It won't be concourse original but will hold the battery just fine. Being set inside the angle iron there's no way it will slide out.

  7. #147
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    Thanks 56willys for the suggestion. I did see a U-tube video on this and fully understand what you are saying. The Hot Mess is certainly no concourse vehicle, so that is a non-issue. Getting angle iron at my local hardware store is a non-issue. The fact that I don't have (or have access to) a welder is the issue. On top of that, I have never welded a thing in my life. I suppose making a battery tray would be a great first project. In the interim, I will clean it as best I can and bolt it back up.

    I measured the valve cover hole and it is 1.25 inches and ordered a grommet with that outer diameter and the 1 inch inner diameter I need. It should get here around the same time as the lower radiator hose.

    Later today, I'll probably take a better look at what's going on with the master cylinder...

  8. #148
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    A source for a battery tray is as follows;

    https://www.thejeepsterman.com/produ...ster-commando/

    It isn't an exact fit, but it will work with only slight modifications. The most issue you will have is that you may have to drill some mount holes. The firewalls didn't change from '52 till the '80s, so the battery tray will work.

  9. #149
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    Thanks gmwillys for the feedback. KW parts has this one (which looks identical to me, although the part numbers are different) https://www.kaiserwillys.com/product...fits-76-86-cj/

    A buyer noted this on the product, "Just installed this on a 1966 CJ5. Had to relocate the tab that has the two mounting holes to the firewall. All other mountings same."

    With my tray missing one of the diaginal brackets and the other looking like a previous weld job is close to breaking off, I'll order a tray. Even if I clean mine up, you can see it has limited time left.

    IMG_2258.jpg IMG_2259.jpg
    Last edited by davide; 04-12-2023 at 12:40 PM.

  10. #150
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    The KW battery tray will work well as well. I agree on the thought of replacing the battery tray. After years of supporting a battery, then being subjected to battery acid, means that any repairs are difficult due to the metal being thinner.

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