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Thread: Hot mess, a 1967 CJ-5 restoration

  1. #61
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    The steering gear box is a mod as you suspect. If you click on the attachment the picture shows up on my screen.

  2. #62
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    Well....I'm back at it again. After a dismal Summer of trying to sell our house (and unable to do so), my wife and I are unpacked and I am back to getting the Hot Mess back together.

    Over the past couple days, I have managed to get the front axle inner seals in, the knuckles lubed and seals back on and am putting the differential assembly back in. My Universal Manual does not give the torque for the differential bearing cap, but I found another thread that says 50 ft. lbs. for a Dana 27. Does this sound correct? I ask because it took more than what I would consider 50 pounds using a breaker bar to remove them.

    I am also concerned that there may be a certain way the caps go back on. They are stamped and I do not know the significance of these markings. It may mean nothing, but I don't want to assume. I went through all my photos hoping to find the original configuration, but it appears I didn't get one of the differential before removing it. Here is a pic. I only have the cap bolts hand tighten.

    IMG_1978[1].jpg
    Last edited by davide; 11-01-2022 at 06:58 PM.

  3. #63
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    Page 205, paragraph N-11 of the Universal Manual:

    "the assembly may be installed by
    cocking the bearing cups slightly when the differential
    is placed in the carrier. See Fig. 258.
    Tap the unit carefully into place, making sure the
    ring gear teeth mesh with the pinion teeth. Install
    bearing caps, matching their markings with those
    on the carrier. Apply sealing compound to the screw
    threads. Torque the screws 70 to 90 lb-ft."

    The markings are also covered in paragraph N-6. Since they are mentioned in both the disassembly and reassembly procedures, my assumption is that it is fairly critical.

    Before anyone points out that Section N is for the rear axle, please note the Section M states the procedure is the same and refers you to Section N.
    Last edited by 51 CJ3; 11-01-2022 at 07:25 PM.
    Jeff
    '51 CJ3A
    '47 CJ2A

  4. #64
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    Thanks Jeff!!

    I must have a different version of the Universal Manual. N-6 in my manual is "Lubricating Unit Bearing" and is for the flanged axle. N-12 (page 294 in my book) is for Diff Case Disassembly and does mention to match the cap and housing markings.

    That was a huge find! I will pull the diff out in the morning and look for markings inside the housing. Thanks again.

  5. #65
    Senior Member davide's Avatar
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    I do believe that I have it figured out. The markings are VERY subtle, but they are there.

    If you look at the pic above and look at the left side cap, you will see a horizontal S just below the stamped triangle. Then on the left side of the housing, you can barely make out the corresponding horizontal S directly across. On the right side, which is harder to make out in my pic is a vertical S just below the stamped triangle. And there is a vertical S directly across on the right side housing.

    In addition to all this, the wear on the housing and cap align perfectly from the bearing race. So by some small miracle, I have the caps in correctly. Just a little Loctite and torque needed...

  6. #66
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Wrong Bearing Cap Torque Specification

    Jeff has you on the right track davide. To answer your concern, it is imperative that the caps go back on exactly the way they came off. The caps are installed and machined in place. They are in effect "mated" to their location. If the caps have switched location in reassembly, most of the time the cap will crack in half when it is torqued.

    Now that torque spec. This one is a bit of a mess. The manual indeed points you to 70 to 90ft.lbs., which is too much for the little Model 25. I don't know where this went awry but it did. The 70-90ft.lbs. specification is for the Model 44. On the Model 25 through Model 28, the spec is 40-50ft.lbs.. On the Model 30 it is 55-60ft.lbs. and it is 70 -90 ft.lbs. on the Model 44.

    The caps can only be replaced by machining new caps in place with a line boring process. Even if the caps don't crack on reinstall at torque up, the unit will probably fail the caps or the bearing or both, in a short period of time if assembled in the wrong possition.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 11-02-2022 at 06:54 AM.

  7. #67
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    I will take bmorgil's word over the manual in this case. I am glad I posted the quote or I would have torqued mine to the spec in my book. The digital Universal Manual I have is FORM SM-1002-R6. My paper manual is out in the shop. I will have to check it out to see if it is the same. TM9-1804B (M38 manual) lists 38-42 ft pounds for the 25 and 44. I have to say, I really don't care for all of the conflicting information. I thought I had a Dana or Spicer specific manual saved somewhere but can't seem to find it now.

    edit: I found the Spicer manual but it's just for the 44.
    Last edited by 51 CJ3; 11-02-2022 at 08:20 AM.
    Jeff
    '51 CJ3A
    '47 CJ2A

  8. #68
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Jeff I agree the spec is posted all over the internet and in some manuals, with many different numbers. 38-42 ft.lbs is the specification on the original model 25 that appeared in the Military Jeeps. It is the specification in the original Military Manual for the early 25 Model. Anything around 40 to 50ft.Lbs. is going to keep the little 25 model together.

    The best way to be sure when you do not have a clear idea of the manufactures specification, is to use the S.A.E. bolt specification. This is what the engineers are referring to when designing. Identify the bolt type and the thread pitch, then apply the S.A.E. specification. The threads are installed dry. Use the dry specification for torque. S.A.E. Bolt torque is a recommendation by the S.A.E..The actual torque can vary based on a lot of things so, it is best to get the right number from the manufacturer. But in a pinch the S.A.E. chart will keep you out of trouble.

    https://floorjacked.com/sae-bolt-tor...ade-5-grade-8/
    Last edited by bmorgil; 11-02-2022 at 08:33 AM.

  9. #69
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    I use general torque specs quite a bit. I figure I have spent around $2,000 over the years buying torque wrenches to cover everything from 10 inch/pounds to 600 foot/pounds that I have to send out for calibration checks from time to time. I like to get my money's worth out of them. Almost all of them read inch/pounds because I am an aircraft mechanic so I have to convert a lot when working on cars. One thing about using calibrated torque wrenches I really like is that I almost never break or strip anything. If I do, I know it wasn't something I did.

    The problem with randomly collecting information posted on the internet is that it is rare to know if a source is legitimate. I have been lurking around here long enough to know a little bit about bmorgil's background. He knows his stuff. If I was a newbie to the site I wouldn't be so confident about his information. Even so, I would like to have something in my document collection that confirms the proper torque values for the different models. I am very big on using manuals and when one is wrong I like to have it verified by another published source and I try not to post information that I cannot back up. Even if it is wrong, like the quote from the jeep manual I posted above. Something from Spicer would be ideal. Everything I have found from jeep just repeats the same info in the manuals I already have on hand.

    I was just reading a random thread about overhauling a Dana 25 axle. The write-up is very nice with good photos. They torqued the caps to 80 foot pounds because that is what the manual they have says to do and there are no manuals I have found to refute it. They also called for high strength thread locker even though the jeep manual calls for thread sealer. I found the post through a link on another flat fender forum.
    Jeff
    '51 CJ3A
    '47 CJ2A

  10. #70
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    I might have a very old service manual around here somewhere. I have the 44 manuals but a genuine Spicer model 25 axle manual would be rare. I only remember engineering notes and notes on the blueprints. The information I have and used in Tech service, came from those notes on the prints. I don't think one was ever officially published for the early stuff, model 25 or 27. Usually the O.E. in those days had the publishing power and the suppliers would provide the technical. By the time I got involved in the publications it was the 80's. I have a lot of 44, 60 and 70 stuff. Any info on the Model 25 and 27 will have to come from original Jeep service manuals. We can see that is where it appears to have run off the tracks.

    Here is what it should be:

    Early Military Dana 25 Model 38 - 42 Ft.Lbs
    Dana 25/27 Jeep Models 45 - 50 Ft.Lbs
    Dana 30 Model 55 - 60 Ft.Lbs.
    Dana 44 Model 70 - 90 Ft.Lbs.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 11-02-2022 at 12:39 PM.

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