61 CJ5 Resto Restart Info

[bmorgil]

By poly bushings do you mean they are not the original black rubber? If not someone has put in some aftermarket bushings. In any case I think gm has you going in the right direction. Something isn't right.

Lifting a CJ always creates terrible driveshaft-u-joint operating angles. There are some things to keep in mind when lifting.

Keep the u-joint operating angles equal to one another.
Keep the operating angles as low as possible (drop the transfer case if needed). https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...or-new-springs
Make sure the u-joints will rotate completely around without contact at the yoke ears with the axles hanging at full extension. (THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN).

There are a few things that can be done to help with a lifted CJ. A good subject for a long dissertation on the Theory of Non-Uniform Velocity.

[test1328]

You are correct. The original black rubber is not there. I know my Dad redid the springs at one time, so I imagine he put these poly bushings in there. I'll try to take a picture of the bushing and the worn shackle plates when I get a chance.

Yeah, you've convinced me that I shouldn't lift this Jeep. I don't need other, unnecessary issues to deal with! I will go ahead with gm's advice and go with the M38A1 heavy duty greaseable shackles. That makes a lot of sense.

[test1328]

Another question on the rotational torque of the pinion after I have installed it. I put it in with the original shim pack thickness and torqued the nut to 100 ft. lbs. I know this isn't the final torque as we talked about previously. However, at 100 ft. lbs, the rotational torque is basically zero. My understanding is that the rotational torque should be somewhere between 10 and 20 in. lbs. Is this correct? If it is and I'm at zero, does that mean I need to remove a shim to increase the rotational torque? Or...do I need to torque this nut to 200 ft. lbs and then check the rotational torque?

Thanks for all the help. I feel like I'm asking a bunch of dumb questions but hope you don't mind.

[bmorgil]

If you have 100# on it and there is no rotational torque, you are correct that you should have some at this point. I would remove some shims and try again. Go slowly on the nut torque, use the old nut. As you are torquing the nut keep checking the torque to rotate. As soon as you start to get the yoke pulled in you should feel it start to get tighter. The torque to rotate will get close to maximum quickly and then the last torque of the nut to spec, needs to bring it in to, or keep it in specification.

https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...shimming/page2

[test1328]

Thanks, bmorgil! I knew I had read that on pinion shimming previously, but couldn't find it when I needed to.

[test1328]

A bit of info on the Dana 25 inner oil seals that I asked about a while back. I'm offering this only as a point of information that might help others at some point. I ordered samples of the new style seal and of the NOS original style seal from Kaiser Willys. And then I measured the OD of each. The OD of the original NOS seal measured between 1.9995 and 2.0005. I thought this tight tolerance was pretty amazing. I ordered two and they both measured almost identically. Granted, this measurement was done with a caliper, but it was the best I had. The new style seal's OD measured 2.0140 to 2.0165. A lot more variation in diameter and quite a bit of interference, assuming the seal recess in the diff housing is supposed to be nominally 2.0 in. Not sure if the new style is supposed to have this much interference or not. I've let Mike at Kaiser Willys know but haven't heard back from him on it. By the way, the description on their website says that the both should be 2.00 in. in diameter.

[bmorgil]

You have to go at it a little differently. Seal manufacturers use and change materials and designs from time to time. It is possible the seal dimensions are not the same due to different press requirements.

The only way to be positive is to measure the I.D. of the bore the seal is to be installed in. I do not remember or have access to the nominal on the tube, I bet it is 2" but ya never know. Call or look up the manufacturers specs on the seal. They should have information available on the bore range dimensions the seal will work with. It is very possible the seals have been cross referenced incorrectly and the part number is wrong, or sometime in the past the seals went through a "Re-Box" program. A .015" press fit is a bit much. It is difficult to get real close with a caliper on a seal. They conform to the bore they are pressed in. They aren't necessarily perfectly round with a precision exterior finish.

[test1328]

Unfortunately, there is no manufacturer or any identifying number on these seals. They are not shipped in a box but in a plastic bag that is used for packing slips on boxes, so there is nothing to go on as far as who manufactured these seals. All I have is the part number that Kaiser Willys uses when you order them. So... there is no way to track down the manufacturers specs on this seal, unfortunately.

[test1328]

Here are a few pictures of the front leaf spring eyes with the poly bushing and the worn spring shackles. There was just a steel sleeve that fit into the poly bushing and that the bolt went through the sleeve. There was nothing between the steel spring eye and the shackle plates. Seems pretty obvious that they were grinding on each other and wore the plates down. In the last photo, you can see that the metal sleeve and bolt are still attached to the shackle plate. I could not remove them, rusted together. I'd like to figure out how to prevent this in the future.

IMG20230410174404.jpg IMG20230410174413.jpg IMG20230410174502.jpg IMG20230410174548.jpg

[test1328]

With regard to the differences in the two different inner oil seals, I received this response from Kaiser Willys today:

The “larger” seal is an open seal, so as you tap it in place the open end will then crush down some once it gets the proper seal.

I believe that A776 is a double sided seal so there isn’t any flex.

I have the A779 seals in my CJ 2A

That is all that was said. FYI, the A776 is the NOS original design seal while the A779 is the new style seal. So, maybe I didn't really destroy the seal when I put it in and it crushed down. Didn't seem right to me, though. I'm just sharing this in case someone else get to wondering about this as well.