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Thread: Wulfies nostalgia project

  1. #61
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    "My Bride thinks I'm nuts."

    Yes dear, I'm sure you're right.

  2. #62

    Bmorgil pattern too ya.

    Some more trial patterns , seems like I failed again to get the ideal pattern. Bmorgil suggested I go in ..02 on pinion did that now looks like went in to much. So going to come out .01 and run pattern again. Before I had not enough now too much so split it and maby Goldie Locks . The pics are not that great but appears in to deep. First pic coast side second drive , but its not very clear gonna try rag drag next time maby get better defined pattern. Bmorgil if I take .01 off the gear pinion side do I take .01 off the preload side ?
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    Last edited by Wulfie; 07-20-2022 at 09:57 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfie View Post
    Some more trial patterns , seems like I failed again to get the ideal pattern. Bmorgil suggested I go in .20 on pinion did that now looks like went in to much. So going to come out .10 and run pattern again. Before I had not enough now too much so split it and maby Goldie Locks . The pics are not that great but appears in to deep. First pic coast side second drive , but its not very clear gonna try rag drag next time maby get better defined pattern. Bmorgil if I take .10 off the gear pinion side do I take .10 off the preload side ?
    Did you really do .20 (2 tenths) or .020 (20 thousandth's)? The recommendation I read said .020.
    Jeff
    '51 CJ3A
    '47 CJ2A

  4. #64
    No lol. I meant 20 thousandth . .02 ! Sry my bad .

  5. #65
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    You are a lot closer than you think. Don't change anything yet. I cant see the pattern on the drive side very well, you don't have enough load on the ring gear. The shadow I do see looks like it is wide in all directions and positioned to the toe. If that is it you are there. I cant see it however so it is very possible "wishful thinking"! The coast side is too deep. That will howl when you back off the gas. Get the drive side first. Make sure the backlash is correct. On a used gear set use the larger specification for backlash (.010"). We might tweak the coast side with the backlash. More on that later if needed.

    You are on track. The number was twenty thousands on the shim. Lets see what a good clear mark looks like. More drag on the ring gear. You should not be able to turn the pinion easily by hand. If you are pushing something against the ring gear, be careful you don't want to crack the axle housing. Use a wedge block of wood (like a doorstop) or nylon against the ring gear and the case. I did see a guy break the case using a crowbar against the ring gear. Roll the ring and pinion several revolutions with load. Look for the marks on the opposite side of the paint spot. See what the marks look like out of the paint. Your getting close. Shoot pics of the painted spot and the unpainted spots where the gear transfers the paint.

    If you have the preload set on the carrier bearings (you should have .015" of preload), just move shims from one side to the other to change backlash. Keep the total shim pack the same. So take from one side and add them to the other.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 07-21-2022 at 09:55 AM.

  6. #66
    Will get a better pic with load but my preload on carrier bearings is not right yet. How do you know when u get the proper pre load on carrier bearings ? Im gonna get a new set of carrier bearings and make some set up bearings . This reminds me of the movies when they played serials when I was a kid ," Commando Cody " comes to mind had to wait a week for the next serial ha.
    Last edited by Wulfie; 07-21-2022 at 08:04 AM.

  7. #67
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    You need to set the carrier preload without the pinion in. With no pinion it should take a firm steady pull to rotate the ring gear. It is hard to measure but if you put a torque wrench on a ring gear bolt, at least 50 or so inch pounds to rotate it. To set it by the book, you find the right amount of shims to obtain a "slip fit" of the carrier in the axle's housing. Then .015" is added to the bearings to obtain the proper preload. Once you "feel" one assembled this way, you will always know what the proper preload feels like when you pull on the ring gear with no pinion in the housing. The second link below address the set up of the carrier preload pretty well.

    https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...al-setup/page2

    https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...inion-shimming

    https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...klash-question

    I have seen guys make their own axle dummy bearings for setting up axles. It works quite well. Take a used set of bearings and hone with a "brake cylinder hone", the I.D. of the races until they will slip on the carrier and the pinion respectively. You can also epoxy the bearings together to make the "tool" into a solid dummy bearing. This makes it much easier. Use the slip fit bearings to quickly swap the shims in and out until you get it set.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 07-21-2022 at 09:12 AM.

  8. #68

    Clearer in the house

    Got some clearer pics bmorgil . First one drive side and other coast . Still looks like I need to move pinion out some . But my ring bearings not set right yet , the preload . Looks like drive side hitting on more of the toes and to deep. If not still to clear ill try again .
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    Last edited by Wulfie; 07-21-2022 at 08:10 PM.

  9. #69
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    You are good at this Wulfie. I am in agreement with you. There are some clues. Look at the "ghost" marks where there wasn't paint. The marks left by the teeth almost match the original wear pattern. You are very close. I agree it is to deep. I am concerned about your carrier bearings not being set. You need to have them set before the final pattern. That said, I have to think bring it back out about .010" and tighten up the carrier bearing preload (first) before the pattern check. Notice how now, the drive and coast side are closer to the same deep contact pattern and moving to the toe on the drive and the middle on the coast side. That pattern is almost there, a little too deep. Your .020" adjustment successfully moved it right through the sweet spot. That tells us you were within .020". Since it moved it from too shallow to too deep, you know you were within .010" of hitting it.

    I misinterpreted your question about the preload shim change. I was talking about the carrier shim pack. You are correct the preload will change on the pinion as you move it. Hold off on the pinion preload adjustment until you are done with pinion depth. Remove most of the shims from the preload and tighten the pinion nut gently until you achieve some preload (not too tight you will ruin the bearing). Set the pinion depth and then go back and set the preload.

    Addition: Shoot pics of the pinion if you can get the camera in there. The long teeth also give some good indications where the paint transfers from the ring gear. I have always found it to be faster to make large changes in the shims until you can successfully go past optimum and then bring it back. I find this method much quicker than "sneaking up" on the pattern.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 07-22-2022 at 07:43 AM.

  10. #70
    Tnx bmorgil , after lasft pattern i took out .007 but havent tried it until i get carrier pre load set up . I assume the .015 is divided between the 2 sides ?

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