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Thread: Transmission????

  1. #21
    Member Skboyd's Avatar
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    The cover shifts hard with force leading me to believe the spring is ok. One would think. Just now messing around some more and found a corner tooth wore on reverse idle gear. Help me with my gear coordinates, the main input is the one to the very front on transmission?? Correct? I'm going back out to spin some more.

    I got a little distracted yesterday with the arrival of my first grandson.
    Thanks guys! I'm still investigating will return shortly.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Correct Scott, the input gear or "Input Shaft" is the gear closest to the engine. In the rear of the trans the large gear with straight teeth is the First and Reverse Gear. This link will help. Click on the number balloon next to the gear, and it will take you to the name and the part number.

    https://somarmotor.com/diagram68.html

    Those are good pictures. Give us more of the same. Lets see a few pictures of suspected broken teeth as you inspect the gears.

    Congratulations on the new Grandson Grandpa!
    Last edited by bmorgil; 07-02-2022 at 07:53 AM.

  3. #23
    Member Skboyd's Avatar
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    Transmission gears

    Yes all gears look shifted... lol but not broken. The reverse slide gear has teeth rounded we will say. The reverse idler appears to have two teeth wore or chipped on corners.... here's some pics.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #24
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    Yes - excellent pictures. Those make it a lot easier to troubleshoot things.

  5. #25
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    I don't see anything that indicates the trans has damage severe enough to stop it from moving in reverse. I cannot see the counter shaft gear however. The damage to the teeth in the reverse area is from that familiar "grinding" sound when someone shifts it incorrectly or, it spits it out of gear because it isn't fully engaged. I am wondering if it was all the way in reverse. There isn't much to go wrong here. It doesn't appear to have any internal damage that would keep it from moving in reverse.

    If you shifted it into reverse and it didn't move or, moved intermittently, I would have to say it is not going into gear. Can you slide the first/reverse gear reward and engage it fully into the reverse idler? If you can engage the gears, when you rotate the driveshaft does it turn the first/reverse sliding gear? If it does keep looking for a spot that is missing teeth. Make sure you check the teeth on the counter shaft where the counter shaft gear meshes with the reverse idler. Missing teeth there would also cause no or intermittent reverse. There isn't much here to go wrong. If everything is fine in the forward gears, you have removed the rest of the drive line from suspicion. It either isn't going into reverse or there are teeth missing.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 07-02-2022 at 09:09 AM.

  6. #26
    Member Skboyd's Avatar
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    Now my head hurts...
    I am confident no missing or broken teeth.
    I can slide gear all way back, a little wiggle to help but goes right back. Clutch is depressed to floor, spin the tire and gears start turning but then kinda stop, stop wheel and gears kinda kick opposite direction. Would guess backlash from rear end? Things seem to be moving together....I see gears moving I think all good. This is where my lack of knowledge may miss something maybe. Now I put top cover back in vise and shifted to double check spring, have not disassembled top cover at this point.. it shifts hard with force, but notice it kinda backs off maybe an 1/8 inch to 3/16 eyeballing. So not sure if that's normal or a broke poppet spring.?
    Now when I first jacked up before removing covers.. I was spinning driveshaft with nothing noticeable, I even started motor and put in reverse let clutch out and wheels seemed to spin no noise or drag... dont fail me jack stands. Lol. So when wheels on ground and put in reverse it jumps not wanting to go. Am I getting off track thinking possible rear end? It seems obvious not going into reverse all the way but why? Maybe back to poppet spring? Overthinking here? Maybe need to go fishing for a bit.
    My first time in a transmission but I'm not seeing the obvious, or maybe I am......

  7. #27
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    "Am I getting off track thinking possible rear end?"

    I've just been watching and keeping quiet because I am by no means a transmission/differential guy - I'm a sparktrician - so take the following comments with a tablespoon of salt.

    My experience is with Timken differentials, so they don't have a lot in common with Dana's. A long time ago, I had a bearing failure on the tail shaft of the pinion gear. After all of the awful noises cleared and the pieces fell out of the teeth of the pinion and ring gears, the truck would only move in one direction (I can't recall which) because the unsupported pinion would drive out of the ring gear in one direction and back into the ring gear teeth in the other. It was very noisy, but it did move enough to let me get into the garage where I swapped the rear end for another Timken.

    BMorgil - is anything like that a possibility with Dana units?

  8. #28
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    The Dana doesn't use the Pinion support bearing. I would expect Larry there was noise when you lost that bearing. The thing that is making this a difficult diagnoses is the fact that it moves under power with no issues and no noise. The only time it wont move is in reverse. That narrows it down a lot. It has to be in the reverse gear power flow.

    The comment "spin the tire and gears start turning but then kinda stop, stop wheel and gears kinda kick opposite direction" I need to understand. Are you saying the driveshaft is turning and the wheels are turning and suddenly the driveshaft stops and the wheels turn opposite directions? It is important you are rotating the output shaft of the transmission. You want to make sure the driveshaft is turning and so are the gears. The driveshaft is hooked directly to the main shaft in the transmission.

    Lets clarify wont move in reverse. Does it bog down and stall or just sit there and rev?
    Last edited by bmorgil; 07-02-2022 at 02:45 PM.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator LarrBeard's Avatar
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    "I would expect Larry there was noise when you lost that bearing."

    Oh yeah - and my chin bounced off the steering wheel when the back wheels locked up...

  10. #30
    Member Skboyd's Avatar
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    Well I'm by myself, so my foot is spinning tire while I'm stretching out looking at gears. Now I did turn drive shaft by hand underneath while my lady looked at gears... we will leave it there. Lol

    I'll back up to to first time it happened. Put in reverse let out clutch it seemed to catch made noise and jerked a little. Caught my attention, never did that b4. The next time out .... I let clutch out and it seemed to not wanna start moving then did, was rough with more noise. Last time out same story but more noise and kinda jumped jerked while trying to roll back in garage.... seems like clutch gotta come out farther to get moving and more fuel to get going compared to foreward gears. The last time was way worse than first. And does not do all time... say come to stop shift in reverse rough start, push in clutch while moving and let clutch back out that time may be smooth.

    I need to get a buddy to turn drive shaft I believe.. I was spinning gears inside case by hand mostly checking for broken teeth...

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