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Thread: 1960 DJ3A Resto with my 18 year old son

  1. #21
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    I think you have a DJ tub on a DJ frame. I think someone got a hold of an old jeep power train and stuck it underneath a genuine DJ. A very rare Jeep to say the least! I would be tempted to try to return it to that status. It would be fairly easy using the surplus of 2 wheel drive postal Jeeps out there. The stopper is the transmission. The two wheel drive transmission could be near impossible to find. The rear tail shaft on the transmission is different because there was no transfer case. The postal jeeps are typically all column shifted and usually right hand steer. There are some left hands out there but, they are rare. Does your steering column look like it used to have a shifter or was it originally a floor shift?

    You have a real interesting find no question.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    What we have here is a conglomeration of a lot of different Jeeps. The front axle is from an MB, or WWII Jeep due to the steering bell crank being mounted to the axle. The frame looks to be a CJ 3A 4X4, with how the front frame horns step up on the top frame, and the lack of crossmember brackets. You are correct that the military frames did have the provision for a machine gun mount, to which your frame does not have, (it would have been welded onto the most forward rear crossmember to be placed in the center of the rear cargo floor. The top is an option, (dealer installed) but the rocker panels being cut on your DJ body was done after purchase, or so I thought. The last link at the bottom shoes what appears to be a factory DJ with the same door modifications that look original. Another feature that says that your tub is a DJ is the round speedometer with integrated oil and water gages.

    The photos are 1) An M38A1 frame with the squared machine gun mount affixed to the crossmember. The earlier ones were round. 2) This is an late CJ2A or early CJ3A frame that has the engine mounts directly across from one another. 3) another shot of the previously mentioned frame, just more of the rear hitch. 4) This is an M38 frame that had the machine gun mount removed before I purchased it.

    DJ example links;

    http://www.ewillys.com/2022/06/23/19...anson-mo-3500/

    http://www.ewillys.com/2018/06/19/19...unty-ca-12500/

    http://www.ewillys.com/2010/06/08/19...rings-wv-ebay/
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by gmwillys; 09-05-2022 at 09:29 PM.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    I knew gm would get in here and straighten things out! The rear axle is also out of an old Jeep, most likely the rear axle, front axle, transfer case, and driveshaft all came out of the same MB or WWII era Jeep.

    I am looking at some of the pictures in the Galley and I am wondering if someone didn't take a left hand steer Postal Jeep (they are DJ's) and set it on a MB or WWII Jeep power train. It looks like it was painted white at sometime in its life. The door opening is the same and it sure looks like the same top. The picture below is a right hand drive. I have read that left hand drives are also out there.

    This is interesting:
    http://www.ewillys.com/2017/01/16/19...ep-dispatcher/
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by bmorgil; 09-06-2022 at 07:33 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmwillys View Post
    What we have here is a conglomeration of a lot of different Jeeps. The front axle is from an MB, or WWII Jeep due to the steering bell crank being mounted to the axle. The frame looks to be a CJ 3A 4X4, with how the front frame horns step up on the top frame, and the lack of crossmember brackets. You are correct that the military frames did have the provision for a machine gun mount, to which your frame does not have, (it would have been welded onto the most forward rear crossmember to be placed in the center of the rear cargo floor. The top is an option, (dealer installed) but the rocker panels being cut on your DJ body was done after purchase, or so I thought. The last link at the bottom shoes what appears to be a factory DJ with the same door modifications that look original. Another feature that says that your tub is a DJ is the round speedometer with integrated oil and water gages.

    The photos are 1) An M38A1 frame with the squared machine gun mount affixed to the crossmember. The earlier ones were round. 2) This is an late CJ2A or early CJ3A frame that has the engine mounts directly across from one another. 3) another shot of the previously mentioned frame, just more of the rear hitch. 4) This is an M38 frame that had the machine gun mount removed before I purchased it.

    DJ example links;

    http://www.ewillys.com/2022/06/23/19...anson-mo-3500/

    http://www.ewillys.com/2018/06/19/19...unty-ca-12500/

    http://www.ewillys.com/2010/06/08/19...rings-wv-ebay/
    So, I agree based on what I have read. I 100% have a factory DJ tub with a factory top- the serial number agrees with info available online stating that it is a 1960 body. I have the staggered motor mounts, no machine gun mount, no diagonal bracing in rear and I have a rear, under floor gas tank which was making me think it was the original DJ frame but power washing it yesterday I started to see green paint on the drivetrain and darker colors on the frame (looks black).

    Was there paint on the frames from the factory??????

    Other thing that may lend some insight here is the transmission. I don’t know what model it is but it looks different from most I have seen. Maybe its older and is an indicator that this is an older model frame and running gear? Here is the trans I have. Also adding a shot of the numbers on the engine block if that is any indicator of the age.

    B3076912-B495-4F24-A39E-AA6642D33334.jpg15FBE8EE-8BBA-447A-8B9D-0A89F699C3EF.jpg

    Thank you all for working on this with me!

  5. #25
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    I have read that link- I think the drivetrain will tell the tale. Jeep was originally white like this picture- 4466B80D-895C-4774-BA42-457ABE1CB147.jpg

    I hope I am not breaking any hearts here but I am not going to re-use that top. We are headed towards a “resto mod” rather than a factory original restoration so that top is up for grabs if anyone wants it (Free). I have a plow for the jeep as well if anyone is interested. Let me know I can post pictures.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    The transmission is a T84. One more indicator that the power train came out of an MB or the like. The engine casting number also indicates an early L134. The pre-1952 blocks had a small flange and a casting number of 641087. A change was made to increase the flange on the block. Some 641087 castings will have the large flange if they were cast during the change. Then the block casting number changed to 804380 after 1952.

  7. #27
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    ok so then body tub is 1960 per S/N plate and engine is pre-52. Lots to learn!

    Thanks for the info on the trans.

    Will have to get axle info and see what else there is to learn.

    My son has a YouTube channel he started to chronicle what is happening. He’s never had one so he’s learning but its better than expected. Will be more technical as time goes on but here is the link if anyone is interested. He is 18 and doing this for a high school senior project (optional class for extra street cred- no grades). I am helping but he wants to do most of it.

    https://youtu.be/SldMYZcb7cs

  8. #28
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    I checked out the YouTube. Some good looks there. I paused it a few times to check out some detail. On the dash it looks like a lot of damage around the column cutout, where the external linkage for a column shifter might have scraped things up. I would say there is a good chance it was a column shifted 3 speed DJ originally.
    Last edited by bmorgil; 09-06-2022 at 12:14 PM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member TJones's Avatar
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    Very nice video!!!
    What stood out to me was the rear axle assembly, maybe gm or bmorgil can enlighten us on it.
    The rear axle is a different hub, I’ve never seen a big axle hub on a Jeep like you have here. It looks more like a Dana 60 instead of the Dana 44’s that came in Jeeps back in the day.

  10. #30
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    That's an MB/GBW axle in the rear as well as the front.

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