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Thread: My first vehicle! 1956 CJ5

  1. #371
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Looking good 56"! What a great time with three generations, favorite cars, at the show!

    Nicely done 56', way to go man!

    It is a big job to go after that oil leak if it is the rear main seal. Nothing you cant handle however. It could also just be the pan. Since the issue seemed to occur after a "High RPM" run down the hill, it could be the oil pan seal. Old motors with some ring bypass, combined with the oil splash from high RPM, can cause a lot of oil splash and pressure in the pan.

    The rear main seal will always leak the most under pressure. If it is loosing that much oil, if it is coming from the rear main seal it will leak when it is idling with a steady drip. If you increase the oil pressure by holding the engine RPM up enough to achieve good oil pressure, the seal should start to pump out the oil. If the oil leak becomes significant while you hold the pressure up, but is not so bad when the engine is idling, it could definitely be the seal. If on the other hand there doesn't seem to be a big difference between idle and holding a high enough RPM to hold good pressure, I would suspect the oil pan gaskets and seals.

    In our shop, we use air pressure to quickly identify leaks. You can seal up the engines openings and apply air pressure at about 3 to 5 psi. The leaks show up very quickly that way. Similarly, pressurizing the oil system will identify any pressure leaks. Lets see what you come up with on a preliminary look over.

    Here is an excerpt from gizzard's build: https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...toration/page2
    The rope seal will eventually weep oil. Just the nature of the beast. I have seen them properly installed go past 50,000 but not much more. The rubber seal is going to be a less touchy installation and a better bet at a good seal the first try. It is important to check the dimension of the seal O.D. in the block. Not all blocks are the same. Not all seals have the same O.D..

    The best tip I can give about leaks is to do it the way the factory does it. This technique is used by the top engine builders in the world. Seal up the obvious "holes" in the crankcase and apply about 3 to 5 psi of air to the crankcase. I have several "Jerry rigged" adapters set up with an air regulator. By applying a few PSI to the crankcase you will quickly find any leaks. You will hear the air seeping by the ring gaps and that should be it. The crankcase should hold a little pressure for a just a second or two. The air pressure should only be escaping past the ring gap and out through the valves. Blocking the exhaust and the carb and any other vents, should produce a fairly leak free crankcase, If you hear air hissing out from anywhere besides the ring path, its a leak. A little dish soap and water on a brush and watch for bubbles.

    Here is info from Mark J's build: https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...that-is!/page2
    Mark, A quick diagnosis is to see if it drips more when it is running as opposed to when it just sits. The oil of course blows all over as you drive so it can be very dificult to find the leak as you know! When there is oil pressure, the rear main seal is going to leak if it is going to leak. If it is as bad as you indicate (3 pints yikes) I would expect a steady drip at 20 to 30 psi of oil pressure. In neutral have someone hold the rpm up so you can build some pressure and peer underneath. If the main seal is pumping oil it will start to drip at the bell housing to block.

    I think there is a very good chance it is leaking at the rear main. You really cant install the wick seal (rope) without removing the crank, unless you like main seal leaks. To do it right it has to be "packed" into the cap and block then the crank is installed. You can use a new style metal backed seal (be sure you have the right one). You can do this one with the motor in the vehicle. You carefully and with a lot of lube, being careful not to cut the seal, work it around the crank in the block then reinstall the cap. The side packing on the main cap and the interface between the cap and the block are also common leak points. Don't trim the side rubber too far and use black silicone sparingly where the cap and block and side seals all come together. The service manual will help you here on the seal points. And as Larry said do try to use a torque wrench on the oil pan bolts if you can. Over torquing ruins it all. Though you can pound the pan back into shape, it is now weak around the holes and will probably just dent when you try to re-tighten it.

    Keep us posted on your progress Mark. This is a common attempted thing changing the rear main in the vehicle. I have accomplished it on a few different types of motors. The Willys does pose some problems at the main cap. The side seals and pan can be a little challenging on an engine stand. It gets a little more interesting in the vehicle. All the oldies start leaking when there is pressure! They just need a little TLC. No do not put in any "magic poop".


    Here is more info: https://willysjeepforum.kaiserwillys...-Main-Oil-Seal
    Last edited by bmorgil; 05-20-2024 at 08:41 AM.

  2. #372
    Senior Member 56willys's Avatar
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    Bmorgil, you hurt me when I read I need to pull the crank! My buddy just did a rear main seal on his truck and was able to just pull the pan and swap the seal out. I was really hoping that was the case with willys, but oh well.

    I looked it over today, the oil pan is a little wet but most of the oil is from the bellhousing back. Sk probably main seal. The Bantam show is only a couple weeks away, but the problem is only one week I'm free to work on stuff. So I really don t want to pull the crank now. I got some rear main sealer today. I know it's not the right way, and I shouldn't just slap a bandage on it. But if it can slow the leak down enough to get me through a couple weeks, that would be a dream come true! Then after I have some fun at Bantam I'll probably just go ahead and pull the motor and get the seal done nicely. That will also give me a chance to check things over inside. And at the same time be able to fix any thing else that might be an issue inside.

    The thing that gets me (I no things sometimes just happen) but last year it hardly ever leaked. When I fist got it there would be some decent puddles underneath but after some running it went away. And by the end of summer I'd drive it around for an hour, park it, come back the next day and there'd be nothing. Occasionally a small leak under the bellhousing but that's it. I put it away, start it and it leaks like mad. And Saturday night on the first drive, it did leak quite a bit on the floor, then left a nice puddle and got the underneath soaked on the way to the show Sunday. But then got enough to smoke on the way home.

    The thing that sucks is if it wasn't for the leak I'd be dialed. And would be running the wheels off it right now!

  3. #373
    Senior Member 56willys's Avatar
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    Today I didn't have a lot of time and didn't feel like messing with oil stuff. So I tackled some more wiring issues, got the fog lights wired up. I wanted yellow tint, but everywhere I looked I could only find clear. So I got some clear sealed beam bulbs and found vinyl wrap on Amazon. And wrapped the light with the transparent tint. It actually turned out really nice. I can't wait to hit the road and see how well they light. And I got a top fitted. I found it at carlislee, brand new best top for 25 bucks. You can't beat that!

    Thank you guys for the help, we'll get that oil leak figured out!
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    Last edited by 56willys; 05-22-2024 at 04:50 PM. Reason: I forgot to add pictures

  4. #374
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    Are you 100% sure that it is engine oil? After I do a service on the Heep, the transmission leaks out the front seal until it seeks the level it likes. It leaks at the bell housing. Just a thought.

  5. #375
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    Good thought gm, make sure 56'. Is it loosing oil on the dipstick?

    You don't have to "pull" the crank. It will make it easier if you loosen the main caps. I would definitely give a try, installing a two piece seal can be done without pulling the engine. If you google "replace willys jeep rear main seal without removing engine", you will get a plethora of ideas. Basically you are going to remove the rear main cap and work a new seal up and around the crank. I have successfully done this a few times in my youth. Sometimes you just cant get it to seal but its worth a try if you don't want to pull the motor.

  6. #376
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    There is typical more than one way to do things besides right or wrong. I would sure try to loosen the main caps to sneak the new seal out. That will save you some time.

  7. #377
    Super Moderator bmorgil's Avatar
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    It could be a few spots leaking 56'. Because it occurred after a hard run, the pan seal especially at the rear, is very suspect. If you decide to go in there, once you pull the pan you are very close to attempting the main seals.

  8. #378
    Senior Member 56willys's Avatar
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    Thanks gents, so I can do a rubber seal without pulling the crank? But not a rope seal. Where should I get the seal from? I don't want to do this twice if I don't have to, so I want to make sure I get the best seal I can get.

    It could be leaking from the trans. however the oil didn't feel like 90 wt. It felt thinner, which could be because it was hot. I'll try to get it cleaned good, then run it a bit, so i can spot where the oil is coming from.

    The back 2 inches of the oil pan is a little wet, but other then that the pan seems okay.

    Also, being from 56 would it even have a rope seal? I know my 64ish hurricane I pulled apart had a rubber seal.

    The dipstick lost maybe a little under a inch level from where it was before the 20 miles. I'll check trans level and see if it went down.
    Last edited by 56willys; 05-22-2024 at 04:52 PM.

  9. #379
    Senior Member 56willys's Avatar
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    Another thing, (I don't mean to keep bombarding the site with questions) but the transmission was making noise. It's always been there but I want tk know if it's normal or not. Going slow (say under 20 mph) it's fine. But upon reaching decent speed, when you let off the throttle on deceleration. There's kind of a grinding sound. Wel maybe not so much grinding, it's really a hard noise to describe. It's a metallic, sort of high pitched grinding/clunking noise. It lasts maybe several seconds, as soon as you let off the throttle and start coasting. Then after a few seconds it goes away. Lay into throttle, let off, it does it then quiets down.

    For example at the top of a downhill grade, I let off throttle and it makes the noise for a few seconds, then continues engine breaking down the hill quietly.

    Sorry for the horrible description, but it's really hard to describe. I don't know if it's just the torque load shifting from one side of the gear to the other. It definitely sounds like it's transmission, the thing is it shifts like a brand new trans and other then this it's actually quiet cruising (quiet for straight cut gears that is) Any thoughts would be awesome! The thing is I've never been around or rode in any other willys, especially not one that's been rebuilt so I don't know how many things are normal.

  10. #380
    Super Moderator gmwillys's Avatar
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    Usually if you have noise when deceleration, that often tells you that you have excessive backlash on the ring and pinion on the differentials. Dr. Dana can elaborate more on that subject. It isn't unusual for the transmission/transfer case or differentials to whine during deceleration. Now grinding or clunking will tell you that you have more than just backlash noise. I would drop the oil and look to see what is in the oil. Is there any metal paste/or glitter in the oil? Is there any gear chunks or pieces of metal in the oil? Just remember, the transmission and transfer case share oil, so don't jump to conclusions if you find glitter in the oil if you pull the oil out of the transfer case first.

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