New to the Forum

[TJones]

Hi All
I am in the middle of rebuilding a 1952 M38 for a show vehicle and I have seen older bodies that didn't have a tailgate on them, they just had a solid piece of steel across the back in lieu of a tailgate.
Does anyone know the year and model of that paticular one I am talking about and will it fit onto my frame?
This was a barn find for $150.00.
It had a Buick 225 odd-fire that I took out and I'm going to replace it with a 252 even-fire that is getting built by a local engine builder.
Someone put power steering on it and a Warn overdrive to help compensate for the 538 gears it came with.
I just finished putting 11" brakes off a 64 Jeep Pickup to help the Ole girl get stopped better than the factory 9" brakes.
It has turned into a long project but I have made up my mind to do it right or dont do it at all.
As soon as the motor is finished I can start moving forward on installing the body and hopefully have it finished up by the time summer gets here to northeast Ohio.
I just hope and pray if my wife wants to ever sell it one day after I am gone that she doesn't sell it for "What I have been telling her it is costing" :):):)

[gmwillys]

Welcome. You are definitely doing it right, no doubt about it.

The M38A1, (1952-1971) didn't have a tailgate. The A1 is the predecessor to the CJ5, so it has a lot of the same characteristics that the CJ5 had starting in 1955. The mounts will be close to your frame. The frame you have appears to be a Civilian frame, because the machine gun pedestal mount is missing on the first rear cross member. The plate would sandwich between the cross member and the cargo floor, to provide a solid mounting surface for the machine gun. All military Jeeps from WWII on up had this plate from the factory. With that being said, the frame you have is still a great foundation to your build.

[TJones]

Thanks for the info., but i was wanting to stay with the flat fender look something like the pictures I have attached.
And the orange is the color my Bride has picked out.
Will a M38A1 tub match up with the flat fenders or not?

[gmwillys]

Flat fenders do have more character in my opinion. I would go with staying with the M38 style of body, then try and splice together the two body designs. My long suffering misses has a love affair with orange. When it came time to paint our bedroom, she picked out an shade of orange. We compromised with Chevrolet Hugger orange. It didn't turn out half bad.

[TJones]

I agree with you on the M38 style body.
I own a Excavating Company and my body guy and I are going to do some horse trading when it comes time to paint, he has a deep orange in mind with a pearl tint and is all pumped up to get it on my body when I decide which one i am getting.
Have you ever heard of or dealt with Jay at "Willys Overland Motors" in Toledo,Ohio on his Repli-Tub replacement body's?
Here is the website www.willysoverland.com
I understrand there is only 1 company that mass produces a replacement steel body for Jeep's and it comes from the Phillipines and the fitment is terrible, but Jay guarantees (after he reworks it) to bolt on in less than an hour.
I kinda want to stick with steel due to the fact I am going to put swing pedals,tilt wheel and other add-ons and I want to be able to weld or cut on it as I need too, versus a stainless,alluminum or fiberglass body that will have corrosion and or strength issue's associated with them.
What are your thoughts on this and do you have any other steel body replacement suggestions?
I am looking for someone that makes a replacement steel body that doesn't have any dash, firewall or floorpan holes cut in it so I don't have to patch up and re-drill new one's where I need them, but as I am finding out that is close to impossible to find one.

[gmwillys]

The Replitubs are the only way to go. It is correct that they take the Pilipino bodies and correct the flaws. I would contact Jay and see if the tubs come in plain, without the floor modifications done for pedals. Then that might save you a buck or to on the cost of their Replitub.

[TJones]

I have been talking to Jay for a year or so and he said he would do the rework and not cut any new holes in a 2A or 3A and sell it to me for $3,800.00 cash and I thought that was a pretty good deal.
He had one set aside for me and had to sell it a couple days later but said it only takes a week to get a another in, that was few weeks ago.
Do you have any suggestions on a tilt wheel that would bolt up fairly simple and swing pedals (hydraulic clutch and daul master cylinder) the same?
Advance Adapters has a big selection I see, but what about anyone else that you may know of or maybe even something from Pull Apart (not sure if you have any of those around you but they are handy sometimes)?
I am kind of waiting on my motor to get finished so I can stuff it and the tranny and TC in then start with the body assembly, extra stuff, and wiring ect.
My thoughts are to get everything in and fitted in place, then pull the body off and have it all painted off the frame by itself underside and all.
Speaking of motor's how familiar are you with a Buick 252 V6?
The guy building my motor use to work for GM and helped design/develop the new ZL1 motor out today for the new Camaro's and he's claiming with a Holley Sniper fuel injection, headers and a few more add on items on my 252 V6 he claims he will get 300 HP out of it on his dyno.

[gmwillys]

That is a good deal in my opinion. Then you have a new tub, and a blank canvas for your build.

I have a early Wagoneer ('65-'68) tilt wheel in my wagon. It is fairly compact and has a bit of Jeep style with the steering wheel. I would look at some Iditit steering columns, because they carry several different options for your needs.

https://www.ididitinc.com/

On the brake and clutch pedals, I would look around at some Wilwood brake and clutch set ups;

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-250-13167?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-wilwood-disc-brakes&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7LXalLOw2gIVxbjACh38qAILEAQYBSAB EgI7r_D_BwE

The Buick V-6 is a standard go to for Jeep performance. 300 HP is the top end of the envelope, but with the advent of tunable fuel injection, I can see it happenenig without too much trouble. The compact size makes it an ideal power plant for the CJs.

[TJones]

Thank You GMWillys!!!
It appears from reading your responses to the questions you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to jeeps.
I am sure I’ll be back when things get moving along with my project.
I’ll keep you up dated with photos as it moves forward.
Thanks again

[gmwillys]

No problem, Google helps out some too. We look forward to watching your progress. I'm sure with the weather breaking, you'll be busy doing dirt work. From the pictures, it looks like you have some good equipment to work with.

[TJones]

Thank You GM it has taken 20 years to get where I am at but I am finally getting to the point where all I really do is bid and set up jobs, my boys are starting to run the field and yes the weather in NE Ohio is finally coming around and drying out so we can get back to work after a looonnnggg hard winter.
I see your in Alabama, all my Grandfathers kin was from the Tuscaloosa and Fosters area.

[gmwillys]

No problem at all.
I started my working career at 10 years old as a go-for, working for my Great uncle, and Grandpa. They owned a small excavation company. We dug a lot of basements, and septic systems. My uncle could run a four stick Ford backhoe like playing a piano. He was amaising to watch and learn from. He taught me the fine art of spreading gravel by setting the chains on the end gate.

You must be proud that after 20 years of busting tail, you can step back a bit and let your crews handle the work. You still have plenty to do, but you don't have to be on sight to keep from things getting out of control.

The weather has been unfriendly for most of the country. I usually have have my CJ2 out by now, but it has been covered up in the shed. We had the F3 tornado come through almost a month ago, so we have been cutting trees and cleaning up after work. No work has been done to the wagon at all this winter, so that is on the agenda.

I'm not originally from these parts. I took a job with a defence contractor, that has a plant here. It's a bit of a culture shock to say the least. It's fun to watch them try and drive when we get an inch of snow...

[TJones]

I know what thats all about, starting at 10 years old myself my Grandfather and Father owned a Excavating Co. when I was growing up and i was the go-for,the truck washers, the oil changer, the track cleaner you might just say I was their bish.
It is getting a little eaiser these day's, I had 38 union guys at one time until the bottom dropped out of everything in 08 and I downsized to just 5 guys now and it is managable with a much better profit margin.
And yes I am proud except when my 2 boy's that "know WAY more than Dad does" have millenial flash back's and the ole man goes nut's, but for the most part they are doing pretty good.
The biggest reason I got into this project of mine is my Dad, my Uncle John and a old time freind of the family Jerry all had jeeps and Jerry with the M38 sold it about 35 years to a guy local.
He just finished a 5 year 32 chevy coupe street rod project and asked me wonder what Pat ever did with the jeep he sold him.
So thats when I was on a mission to find out, I found it and bought it off the next owner for $150.00 and here I am today, waiting on a motor!!!
The pictures attached are me and my Dad on the right with the CJ5, my Uncle in the middle with another CJ5 and Jerry on the left with his M38 and I am guessing it was 40-45 years ago.
Damn I'm getting old :):):)

[gmwillys]

That's great that you were able to purchase back the Jeep. I've been wanting to buy my great uncles, ( from my mother's side) '63 International Scout 80. It is sitting under a collapsed barn, where it had been sitting since parked. I don't know how bad it is now, but the last time I saw it, the hood was smashed, because the hood was raised. The barn collapsed some time in the early nineties, so know telling what's left. My cousins are notorious for "going to do something with it someday", so they won't sell. I used to spend my summers when I was small, with my Aunt and Uncle. He had a large farm, and we would cruise around and check fences. There was a couple of creek crossings, and when the water was high, water would come through the rust holes in the floor. The mice would scatter from within the seats. Good times.

[TJones]

Yeah those were some good times back then.
We all belonged to a Jeep club here in Akron called Tiretown 4 Wheelers and we all raced the drags which was a 300’ track, then a hill climb for the fastest time then we’d run the obstacle course which we maneuver through the woods,usually through a creek and mud for the fastest time also. It was a blast when I was 14-16 years old.
Then I built a single seat jeep when i was around 20-21 with a Buick V6 that Kenne Bell in Michigan built for me, he took 350 V8 heads and cut one cylinder out of the center and welded them back together so we could have bigger exhaust and intake valves, we put a 471 blower on it then I put a Lenco 2 speed tranny in it with a airshift.
That car was a Beast, I think when Bell built the motor he put it on a dyno before we went to pick it up and it was close to 875 HP, out of a 231 V6.
I ran it for 4-5 years before it had a "Scrap Iron Fit" one year in Cincinnati at a race called Gravelrama, it was the biggest race of the year and people came from all of the country. I was in the final round running a Big Block V8 in the unlimited class and I knew I had to run the Ole Girl Hard to beat the guy, so that's what I did and when I hit the button to shift is when my racing days came to a complete stop.
I will never forget the noise it made when it granaded at 12,850 (according to the Tach ) it blew the crank, rods,pistons and all out the bottom, it blew the heads and blower out the top what a mess it was......
That was back when I had more money than sense, but it was fun.
Now a days I just tinker with a old Jeep and try and Spoil my 3 Granddaughters as much as possible

[LarrBeard]

You noted; "Damn I'm getting old"

There seems to be a lot of that going on around here. But, I believe it beats the alternative. Much of the Jeep restoration is done by us more mature guys. We don't keep our heads down in phones, get gamer's thumbs other such afflictions. We tend to use technology as a tool - not an end in itself.

We get greasy, drop dirt in our eyes even behind safety glasses and skin up knuckles and talk to things to get them loose.

Isn't it fun!

[TJones]

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Here is a old picture of my Money Pit

[gmwillys]

My folks were members of our local Jeep club, and they did a lot of the same events. They ran old gravel pits and strip mines. I don't know what the name of the club was. Truth be known, I was concieved at a Playboy club resort, while they were on a club run to Wisconsin. Then after I refused to be born, two weeks after the due date, dad would take Mom for Jeep rides. He had a CJ5 Renegade. When I was 1 dad would take me for Jeep rides while Mom was at work. One afternoon we even chased a tornado. Mom wasn't happy. They also had a '69 Camaro, that mom drove. In my child's mind, we had the coolest cars ever... Then my brother was born. I rode between the seats, when we drove to trade both rides in for a family friendly Caprice. The good times were over, in more ways than one. I did get my '63 wagon from a farm auction, for $500.00. I drove it a bunch, but it wasn't terribly reliable. I was constantly working on it, so I purchased something newer for everyday use. The wagon went into storage for 15 years.

When I turned 18, I started building demo derby cars. I loved going when I was a kid in the seventies, so when I turned 18, and didn't need anyone's signature, I put together my first car. I had set cars up prior to that for my uncle, but by then he had lost his nerve....or figured out that it didn't feel all that good the next day. I started out running a '70 Impala, and did alright. Then my Great uncle had a '79 Caprice that I was more than happy to dispatch. I ended up running it for a couple of season, and actually made a little money. . After a while, I took a job with Caterpillar in Minnesota. Little did I know that it was a hot bed for demo derbies. I bought a house, and built a nice shop, and before long, I had several sources for cheap land yachts, so the inventory was extensive. There was pallet racking as high as the cieling full of parts. When I took my current position down here, there were car haulers and pick-up trucks wrapped around the block to purchase stuff. It was a sad day, but after 10 years, it was time to get out, and do something a bit less destructive.

[TJones]

Taking off this morning to head to Toledo to pick up my 3A body from Willys Overland and hopefully it doesn’t rain on us.

[LarrBeard]

Didn't make it, did you? We got drowned here in NE Indiana. Oh well, water won't hurt it.

[TJones]

Nope
Got all the way to Toledo from Akron with no rain, got everything loaded up and it started pouring.had the hood,fenders,windshield frame and tailgate in the bed of my truck covered with the cap but the tub was on my trailer and got soaked.
Thank God for a 2 hour turnpike ride back at 80, it was like a blow dryer once we got out of the rain!!!
Just had to keep ahead of it and we did.

[gmwillys]

Rain won't bother it too much. Glad you got your body home. Now the real fun begins!

[TJones]

Your exactly right on that GM Willys.

[gmwillys]

Keep us up to date on your progress. As a suggestion, keep a tab on all the likes and dislikes of the body kit. I've read a lot of propaganda on the Willy's Overland Replitub, but would like to read an honest opinion on the quality of the whole thing.

[TJones]

I havent really got into it much, but just like Jay from "Willys Overland" said you cant expect a whole heck of a lot from something that a bunch of 10-12 year old kids threw together in the Phillipines.
All and all it doesnt look to bad, one thing is for sure it's a heck of a lot better than what I started with.
It for sure is going to take a lot of putty ( skim coating wise ) to cover up the spot weld marks. They are everywhere, but I am building something that I'm going to take to car shows so I guess if your just going to build a trail rider it would be perfect, or maybe in my older age I just am getting a little more anal about it being done right instead of half fast :):):)
I'll keep you updated on the fitment once I get the motor done and stuffed in it and start to set the body on her.

[gmwillys]

Sounds like a plan. I wish I could get my 13 year old out to the garage and do some welding. She struck one arc some years back, and she got the whiff of burnt hair.... That was the end of that. Maybe in a year or few she will come around.

[SteveBonny]

I bought a tub through Kaiser for my CJ2a. I was pretty pleased with it. I'm not sure if it is the same source as Willys Overlander. It was made in Asia somewhere. Fit was generally very good. Only issues I remember were alignment of the pedal holes was a little off and the dash guage holes were just a little undersized for the guages. Both were fairly easy to resolve. I used the original fenders and hood and they fit up just fine. Mine tub didn't have the Jeep script stamped into the tool box - but I think that was not on all cj2as?

[gmwillys]

The remanufactured body kits are all made by MD Juan in the Philippines. Willys Overland purchases the body kit and applies the correct fixtures to locate everything for proper fitment, (per their web sight). You can purchase a Willys stamped body kit, but you have to pay a bit extra for the name through Fiat/Chrysler, who own the Copy rights. The military bodies from the factory didn't have the Willys stamped hoods or tailgates, nor the Jeep stamped tool box. This was a Government standard, until Ford had its

My source of wonderment comes from a prior experience with a Juan body. We had a M38/CJ3A bodied Heep that the fitment of every panel was horrendous. The fenders didn't line up with the grill, the hood was too long, the windshield was alright, and the body mounts were not close. The clutch and brake reliefs were also off as SteveBonny has stated. The body was not that old, and had been professionally painted inside and out, but it still was rusting out on the floor boards at the hat channels. The Heep was produced some time in the early eighties, so I'm curious to see if the quality control has improved.

[TJones]

Well i got back to my project and all i have to say is the steel they use to make these Repli-tubs is like paper, I dont think it has anything to do with "Willys Overland" it has everything to do with the company MD Juan that mass produces them.As far as fitment it did what Jay said it would do and that was bolt up in less than an hour!!
My first little project was to make some seat brackets for the bucket seats I ordered from Jegs, then I moved to cutting the original dash out and I'm welding a solid piece of sheet metal in place of the original due to I am putting my emergency brake handle on the floor, changing the steering to a tilt column with a key in the column and I want to put the gauge holes and speedo hole in different spots than what comes on the original dash configuration.
This is when I figured out the gauge of the steel (especially in the areas where it is bent) is like paper, other than that (and doing a lot of building up and filling in burnt through holes) everything is going good SLOW but good.31163117311831193120

[gmwillys]

Looking good. Are you going to run the fuel tank in the stock location, or run a cell, or a CJ5 style? I'm curious to how the seat brackets will look. Your selection of seats look comfortable.

Thank you for keeping us up to date!

From my experience with an early MD Juan body, it was thin just as you said.

[TJones]

Yes GMwillys I am using the stock tank,I ordered one from Kaiser Willys and after a couple weeks of hearing nothing I called and they told me the company that made the steel tanks went out of business so I ordered a plastic tank for $40 more.
I sat on a 5 gallon bucket for a long time trying to come up with a design taking in that with the seats I bought I had to keep them low enough that mine and my brides heads wouldn't stick up above the windsheild but they sat as far back as I could get them so our knees didn't hit the dashboard.
One has to remember that when these were produced in the 40's and 50's the average height was only 5'2" to 5'6" and me being 6'2" and my bride at 5'11" (Love that,she's got legs clear up to Heaven) there isn't a lot of leg room to start and or play with.
Got the brackets and seats mounted FINALLY, after I get the brackets all ground down and everything mounted in her I am moving on the the steering column.
I made a mock up column out of PVC pipe to mount up to get my proper length before I order one.
I'll send some pictures when we get that far along on the SLOW but Good progress, Slow meaning it's crunch time in NE Ohio and we are going like mad men trying to get all our jobs buttoned up before Ole Man winter sticks his Ugly *** head in and shuts us down for a few months.

[gmwillys]

I figured you would be busy, trying to get through with the open jobs before winter. I remember those days well, and in some ways miss them.

Not to make excuses for Kaiser Willys, but with all the hurricane cleanup going on around their region, it isn't a surprise that they are having trouble with vendors. They should have communicated that to you. Our member Pelago hasn't had much luck getting back on his feet for waiting on the insurance to pay up.

Very true about the average height. I have a goatskin leather A2 pilot's jacket from the 50's. My shoulders won't fit into it. I was blessed to be average height, (5'10"), so as long as I don't eat too much, the 2A still fits rather well. One thing you may think about, is modifying the rear wheel wells to give you a little more leg room. There is plenty of room in front of the rear tires. You can gain 4" to 6" inches depending on the size of the tires that you want to use. This also be useful to reduce the amount of hidden spaces for dirt to collect causing the typical Willys rust. When done right, the average person will never know that it isn't original. The steering columns such as the one you included are nice. I used an Ididit tilt column on a friend's 64 El Camino project several years back. It went in perfectly, and functioned well. On our wagon project, the barnyard engineered Wagoneer tilt column worked very well. Now that I have it all apart, I am cleaning up the mounting brackets, but will retain the column. The original 64-65 steering wheel looks and is the right size for the operation. The chrome ring for the horn button looks good. I will have to repair some of the cracks in the plastic, but there are products on the market that are made to repair such cracks.

[LarrBeard]

Plastic isn't a bad second choice. Pet vehicles sit a lot and even though gas doesn't have a lot of water in it any more, plastic tanks won't rust if they sit and collect atmospheric moisture over time.

[TJones]

31283129313031313132

[TJones]

3133313431353136

[gmwillys]

Those are some good brackets that you made. With the tilt wheel, you should have sufficient leg room. The only thing that sticks in my mind is closing off access to the tool box. I know how my luck runs, I keep spare points, cap, rotor, old wires, etc wrapped up in a Ziploc bag in mine. I'm a firm believer in having and not needing, then needing and not having. One of my idiosyncrasies. You may have already planned a storage spot for spare items.

[TJones]

I took your advice gm about moving the seats back.
After a couple beers and sitting on a bucket for a couple hours I cut the rear fender wells out to give me about 5-6 more inches.
Wisdom at its finest Thanks for the idea it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.3265326632673268

[gmwillys]

Glad it worked for you. No sense trying to fit within 1940s average person sizes, when the solution is a few drilled spot welds away. It doesn't take away from the Willys look, but gives your knees room to get in and out without banging into the wheel.

[TJones]

Making progress on the steering now that we got the seat situation figured out!!!33353336333733383339

[gmwillys]

Looking good! The seating turned out really well!

[TJones]

Thanks gm!!
After redoing them a couple times I’m pretty satisfied with the leg room my Bride and I have now.
Now that Ole Man Winter has stuck his head in what looks like to stay here in NE Ohio, maybe I’ll have more time to tinker with it.

[gmwillys]

Keep the photos coming!

I went last weekend to look at a clutch problem that one of our new members was having. He has an MD Juan bodied CJ3A, and I will have to retract some of the trash talk I had put out on the replacement body kits. His Jeep seemed to fit together really well, meaning the fenders and grill looked like they belonged together. The welds on the hat channels were alright, matter of fact they look similar to the welds laid down from the factory by hand. All in all, I was actually impressed with the quality.

[TJones]

All and all I am pretty happy with mine other than it is thin, other than that the fitment is good and the spot welds are tight.
I think it is a good deal for the money.
The guy that is going to paint it stopped by last weekend and said he was going to strip it all down and skim coat the whole body and cover up all the spot welds and the tiny waves in it, it should look pretty good when and IF I ever get it ready to paint.
My plan is to get it all finished and running and take it all apart and send it to him to start his magic.

[gmwillys]

Better to have it all in perfect running order before the fenders and all are painted. Then it won't hurt if you have to drill a hole, or drop a ratchet.

[newjeep]

I just bought a 1958 Willy's CJ5 and I need to replace the entire brake system. I'm just going to rebuild the drums, does anyone have any suggestions? And or links to brake kits? I am also not sure what year/model brake kits will fit mine.
Thanks!

[TJones]

Kaiser Willy’s has a pretty good selection of parts for your CJ5

[LarrBeard]

I just bought a 1958 Willy's CJ5 and I need to replace the entire brake system. I'm just going to rebuild the drums, does anyone have any suggestions? And or links to brake kits? Thanks!

Don't try to save drums that are badly scored or that have already been turned to their limits. Getting it stopped is as important as getting it running!

Here is the link to KWAS brakes - they have everything you need. If the brakes are standard, just look for CJ-5 parts and kits.

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/brake

Put up some pictures of the critter so we can appreciate it with you.

[gmwillys]

I would use the pre-bent brake lines from Kaiser Willys, or maybe check into Willys America. I would look for American made brake master and wheel cylinders. Your local parts store can get you Wagner brake parts. They cost more, but you will not have to barnyard modify the backer plates to accept the crown Chinese replacement wheel cylinders..... The bolt holes and bleeder do not fit quite right. The cheap brake lines will cause you headaches because of leaks at the unions. I tried to go cheap, and fought problems as stated. Even if you buy bulk lines and bend them to fit, you will be better off.

[TJones]

I bought all my drums,wheel cylinders,springs,and shoes from my NAPA dealer and the adjusters and the pre-bent S-lines on the front axle I bought from Kaiser Willy’s if that helps.
Once you find out which model you have NAPA can cross it over for you.

[gmwillys]

The S-lines from Kaisers works well.

[Haymaker]

I wish you were closer I would love to buy that 225 odd fire off you they were a very good engine with a very pleasing exhaust note.

[LarrBeard]

If you buy new brake lines, paint them before you install them.

Unpainted lines take a nasty white coating after a while and even the stock lines that have a primer on them tend to chip fairly easily. Just something i wish I had done .....

[TJones]

Haymaker we can crate her up and ship it to ya, she's just sitting in the shop taking up valuable space that we could use for more project parts:D:cool:

[TJones]

Not really my shop is 12,000 SF and we have room to keep every piece of iron and the trucks inside out of the weather.

[TJones]

I had to share this Guy's and Girl's3342

[gmwillys]

No truer statement has been made. I've had the statement made a couple of times, by the first wife, and by the current long suffering misses. My last shop was set up to do most anything. There was pallet racks then were organized with engines, transmissions, rear ends, steel, and even my snowmobile. As a single guy, it was set up the way I wanted. The first wife started coming around, but I did spend every evening out there working on junk. She even sat out there in my office chair and watched TV, and even mixed up a pretty good drink when she thought I needed one. A couple of years later, we were even married within the walls of the shop. Shortly there after, she stated that she hated the shop, and the amount of time I spent out in it..... Long story short, she didn't last much longer. Now I have a child and inherited grand children, so I don't get out into my current garage near as much as I like, but it's still my space.

[Haymaker]

Did you seriously want to sell that 225? 12000 sq.ft. would be a mighty nice shop. I’ve got 980 sq.ft. So I’m limited to one project at a time.

[TJones]

Yes Sir it’s for sale as a matter of fact everything I have is for sale if the price is right.

[TJones]

3359336033613362

[Haymaker]

I did look into shipping, and its not feasable.

[TJones]

GM or LarrBeard I've got a question, whats your thoughts on powdercoating?
I am thinking I want to send my frame and springs out to get them powdercoated so they stay nice and I dont have to keep touching them up with paint. I have a local guy in Akron that said he would do it for $400 if I brought it to him.

[gmwillys]

Powder coating is the way to go, especially for the frame. The springs will have to be broken down so that the springs get coated all the way through. $400 will worth every penny.

[LarrBeard]

GM or LarrBeard I've got a question, whats your thoughts on powdercoating?



I had a lot of things on the '48 powdercoated. The coater was just across the street (literally, and it wasn't all that big a street) and we could get very quick turn-around.

I had the frame painted with a tough epoxy undercoat type of finish. Our thinking was that it would have more chip and stone resistance than powdercoating - and I have not regretted the choice.

I also had the wheels powdercoated and I am not as crazy about the results there. The coater did not get into the slots as well as he might have and there are areas that didn't get really good coverage. The coating seems to be a bit porous and I am seeing some places where even after bead blasting, some little rust spots are starting to peek through. So far I can hide them with a light buffing of steel wool, but I suspect in several years I will have to pull the wheels and get them redone - probably paint this time. But - they do look good ...

As far as springs go - you really do need to do something with them. I went with new springs and the paint on them turned out to be a primer. I have chipping and I need to do some serious touch-up on them come spring weather. I am not sure if you can get that big honkin' piece of metal hot enough to get the powder to adhere properly and I would be suspicious if the coater can get the penetration in between the leaves. If I had it to do over, I would do the springs with the same epoxy/undercoat as the frame. We did the underside of the bed and the bottom half of the firewall in the same stuff and so far it has held up very well.

The attached photos are to show the painted frame, how we split the paint on the firewall and how the powder coated wheels turned out - as well as a chance to show off my truck.... .

In the end, there is probably not a bad choice of doing either - just my opinion that is worth all you paid for it.

Merry Christmas!

[gmwillys]

Creating an even heating is the most important part of the powder coating process. If the heat is not sufficient, then the powder doesn't fuse together properly. In the case of LarrBeard's wheels, it sounds to me that there was two issues. The electrical charge wasn't sufficient to attract the powder to the wheel. Then the heat wasn't enough to fully bond the coating, causing a rough surface.
After thinking about my previous post, I will concur with LarrBeard in regards to the springs. A better choice for a driver, would be the epoxy paint. This will have enough flex to keep from flaking off. The powder coat will have a tendency to want to chip off with spring flex. Either way, disassemble the spring pack to get a coating of paint/coating through out the entire spring pack. Add thin rubber, (inner tube) at the ends of each leaf to maintain the paint.

[TJones]

Thanks guys!!
I think I’m just taking the frame and after listening to the “wisdom” from you guys I’ll paint the springs with epoxy.
The guy at the Powdercoating shop said their oven goes to 800 degrees to make sure the powder fuses together and makes a better finish.
I got to thinking at 800 degrees it would destroy all the rubbers in the springs and hangers and they are all new so I’ll just paint them and get the frame powder coated.
I’ve got a guy wanting my 225 odd fire so the PC will be a wash.
I’ll send pictures when it’s finished.
IT NEVER ENDS DOES IT???

[gmwillys]

No it doesn't ever end. I've been trying to get back on the wagon project. I have whittled down the side projects to a couple. Soon, I will get the welder fired up.

A quick story about a powder coat shop. I worked at a Ford tractor shop, and a few doors down was a shop that fabricated a lot of sheet metal parts for Caterpillar. Long story short, the was a place that made pizzas for retail sales. You could buy a raw pizza for little to nothing, take the pizza down a couple doors, run it through the powder coat oven for 5 minutes. Perfect pizza, for a cheapo price.

[LarrBeard]

[QUOTE IT NEVER ENDS DOES IT???QUOTE]

In a sense it is a Love/Hate relationship. Right now the '48 has the speedometer and oil pressure gauge out of the cluster. I sent them back to Bob's Speedometer to have them checked out. I have a cable/drive gear issue with the speedometer and they fixed the gauge we roasted - so now I have to figure out how to get them back in place.

IT'S LOT EASIER TO GET SCREWS OUT THAN TO LINE THEM UP TO PUT THEM BACK ...

You never seem to run out of things that need just a little more work done to them. And, by the time you get finished, something else needs to be looked at. Kind of like painting the Golden Gate Bridge, by the time you get to the end, it's time to start back on the other end.

[TJones]

You are right there LarrBeard!!!
I bet I’ve ordered 100 316 stainless bolts,nuts,washers,spacers you name it from McMaster-Carr maybe 10 different times and if I would have ordered everything at once I probably would of saved $100 on shipping. But like you said about painting the Golden Gate Bridge you get to one end and say s#}t I should get some stainless bolts for that.
So needless to say I’m trying to do it right and me being anal about EVERYTHING it may take a while.

[gmwillys]

As long as you are happy with your progress, that's all that matters. The little details may be missed by most, but you know it was done right, and to your standards.

[TJones]

Started smoothing the frame out before it gets powdercoated and putting new bumpers on due to the old bumpers were to pitted up to be powdercoated over and they were welded on and I prefer to have them bolted on, just being anal again:rolleyes::confused:.
3487348834893490

[gmwillys]

Bolt on are the way to go. If down the road you want to change your design, then you can without doing surgery. Time spent on smoothing the frame now will keep you happy for a lifetime. I sectioned the front stub on my 2A, from the crossmember forward. The heep was used to plow snow, so the frame was both rotten and beat. Long story short, I missed finishing one weld under the frame on the passenger side. Every time I crawl up under, it bugs me.

Great pictures! Now I'm jealous of both your shop and the forklift. Someday.

[TJones]

Thanks gm!!!
I really don’t really use the tow motor much because we have 2 electric 5 ton overhead hoist but they were tied up. My shop was a foundry before I bought it 15 years ago it was perfect for my line of work, 25’ ceilings, waste oil heat and 12,000 sf.
My buddy that owned the Jeep 35 years ago that built his model A street rod told me “ take your time and do it right “
So I’m “taking my time and doing it 2-3 times” but doing it right
I Hope!!!!

[gmwillys]

You are doing just fine. Everything is trial and error. Non of us do things the exact same way. The great thing about heeps is that they came from the factory ready to customize. There is really no such thing as a factory original Jeep. Dealers and J.C. Whitney had a laundry list of aftermarket parts since day one in '41. A Jeep isn't like a Chevelle. As LarrBeard always says, what you see is what you have. Serial numbers are good enough to tell you when about a the Jeep was produced, but forget about engine serial numbers. Means almost nothing, except military or civilian.

25' ceilings is nice to have for working on your equipment and trucks. I would imagine that the building is well insulated, since it was a foundry?
I built a home shop almost 20 years ago. The walls were 12' tall, with vaulted ceilings. I found out who my friends were at the time. Minus the concrete, we drove every nail. One wall was pallet racking to the top of the wall with engines, transmissions, rear ends and driveshafts. I had complete Chrysler and Chevy drivetrains ready to drop in the next car. My snowmobile had its own shelf, above the pool table on car skates. I didn't have a tow motor, but sure could have used one. I have gotten my money's worth out of my engine hoist.

[TJones]

I have a question for the Wise Ones.
Did Jeep make a steering knuckle that had 2 tie rod holes on the passenger side on any make or model that would bolt up to my Dana 25 axle?
I’m wanting to put chrome heim joints in lieu of tie rod ends, and the passenger side only has 1 tie rod hole in the steering knuckle.
I want to put 1 tie rod from left to right and one from the power steering box to the passenger side in another hole.

[gmwillys]

For the life of me, I don't remember how my wagon is set up. It has the Saginaw slosh box mounted to the driver's side frame horn, and I think the drag links were flipped over to bring it toward the pitman arm. I'll look to see what I can find out for you.

[gmwillys]

Ok, the answer for your question is the Willy's M38A1, international scout 80 and 800 with the Dana 27. According to Kaiser's, our wagon has been modified to the twin mount knuckle. You can look through the gallery to see how my wagon is set up. I like the idea of the heim joints. That should reduce the chance of the dreaded death wobble.

[TJones]

Yes Sir that is exactly what I’m looking for, not sure if someone just drilled another hole or it is something I can buy somewhere.
It looks like there is room on the stock knuckle to machine another hole closer to the axle. 34913492

[gmwillys]

After thinking about this subject over night, and fact checking today, the Dana 44 knuckle will fit the Dana 25/27. That should open up the ability to scrounge a knuckle to fit. Also, I was incorrect, or at least Google was on the M38A1 having the knuckle desired. Some wagoneers had them but more in the I.H Scouts and Scout II.

[TJones]

Thanks gm
I just emailed Mike at Kaiser to see if he could help me find one, i found 2 on Ebay for $200 but the drivers side I have is like new and Kaiser's have single hole passenger sides for $64.00.
Lets see what Mike comes up with.
I even checked on the 64 truck that I got the 11" brakes from and they were single hole as well, but your right they are more common on the scouts.

[gmwillys]

Too bad the market on Scouts is through the roof. I can't believe what people are paying for some of the rust piles on Ebay. To have been smart 20 years ago and stocked up on them when they were a dime a dozen. Same goes for square body chevys.

I know my wagon inherited a bunch of parts from the first generation Wagoneer, but never thought about the front axle. I need to look closer at it when the weather dries up. I know the rear axle is stock. The knuckle was most likely added when the steering was added. I know I have a couple knuckles in the back of the shed, but they came off a CJ2A. But one never knows what you have until you study it.

[TJones]

Mike from Kaiser just emailed me back and this is what he sent me

Hey Tim, here are the tie rods assemblies that are available:



https://www.kaiserwillys.com/driver-side-steering-tie-rod-assembly-fits-46-66-cj-2a-3a-3b-5



https://www.kaiserwillys.com/passenger-side-steering-tie-rod-assembly-fits-46-66-cj-2a-3a-3b-5



and this is how it’s setup:



https://www.kaiserwillys.com/diagram/cj-5-6-diagrams/steering-diagrams-willys-cj-5-6/steering-system-willys-cj-5/steering-system



Let me know if you have any other questions.

[gmwillys]

Mike is good, but his thinking is for a stock set up. I saw the one(s) from epay for $200. I have not had a chance to look at the Scout parts sources. Their prices are generally descent, unless you are looking for a quarter panel.... Then hold on to your wallet.

[TJones]

What about this GM?
I could fabricate something like this drag link to go in the top bearing on the passenger side.3493
I would feel much safer with a factory built knuckle.

[gmwillys]

Scout parts.com has your knuckle for $250 and change. I.H. parts.com sells a conversion hi steer kit to move everything to the top of the knuckle for added clearance. At a quick glance, I saw a single hole, but am sure they would have a dual hole. Take a look at their design, and you could pattern yours to match if you chose to Fab your own.

[TJones]

That 2 hole must be obsolete from what I see.

[gmwillys]

Scoutparts did have one, 273.23 with shipping. As far as obsolete, it all depends on the geometry of your steering configuration. With the Saginaw mounted on the frame horn,. It works well, with descent road manners. Never had a case of the dreaded death wobble with that configuration. Now, I didn't rack up huge miles on it back then.

[TJones]

I found a pair (left and right side for $200) on EBay for $200 and I made a offer of $75 let’s see if he takes it👍👍👍

[TJones]

It is Christmas time and I don’t want to wait until the eve to Christmas shop for the Bride so with a day off I might go to Summit racing and buy her a grab bar or something nice for the project :)
How’s that sound? She’ll Love it 3496
That’s last year in Puerto Rico. :cool:

[gmwillys]

All I can say is that if she does appreciate the oh sh*t handle, she's a definite keeper.

I'll have to look to see if we have any pictures together. The long suffering misses runs from cameras.

[TJones]

3497I think what I’m going to do is hook up the tie rod under the knuckle and run the drag link from the steering box to the top of the knuckle on the passenger side and use chrome-moly heim joints with stainless 5/8 bolts.

[TJones]

I just found a Dana axle in California on Willy’s for Sale that has the knuckle I need for $100 for the whole axle, wonder if he’ll sell just the knuckle?
It’s 5:30 in the morning in CALI maybe I’ll wait to call him:)

[gmwillys]

If the axle from California doesn't pan out, then I like your idea for stacking the hiem joints on the single hole knuckle. As long as the hardware stays tight, it should work well.

[TJones]

Got the frame and bumpers back from the powder coating shop today and he did a great job onit.35193520352135223523

[TJones]

Everything is going back together with 316 SS bolts,nuts and washers.
PS don’t forget to use Neverseeze on everything!!!!!!
He told me today he could Powdercoat over bondo if it’s less than a inch thick, he said get a fender, hood or tailgate ready and he’d try it for free to see how it came out.
My next move is to get a fender ready and let him do his magic!:p

[TJones]

Not to change the topic Mr. gm but knowing you work for the defense system I have a meeting tomorrow to start a job at the Revenna Arsenal in January, if you’ve never heard of it Google it, it has a long history of government defense operations.
We are doing some contaminated waste removal “demo of a building that was built in the early 50’s and tore down in the late 80’s” and buried on site.

[gmwillys]

The job will be fun. Government red tape every time you turn around. A piece of advice, buy cheap boots and gloves. You do not know what you may be digging up. The military is well known for dumping anything and everything in open pits. I would also consider cleaning your equipment before bringing it home, or to another job. I would even go as far as taking in a load of pit run to pile off the side, and load it when you are through, and then dump it to scower the dump truck or end dump.

The frame did turn out really well. Powder coating the body parts would be great! More often than not, the powder coated color is much more consistent than paint. Then down the road if you need something fixed, there should be no difference in the shade of coat. Maybe years of being outside, the coat would not match, but I doubt that will be the case with your rig.

[TJones]

You are right about the Red Tape, I’ve never seen so much paper work. Once you get in the guys and girls we’re working with are Very helpful and nice to work with. The Arsenal has 3 full time employees that work on site that are employed by the Federal EPA so you can only imagine the extra paperwork that comes along with that!!!!
I’ll send some pictures of the fender when it’s finished,you all have a Very Blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year!!

[TJones]

35383539354035413542

Just waiting for the U-bolts and spring plates to get back from getting chromed.


Anybody looking for a new plastic tank,mounting strap,cap, 5 hole sending unit and rubber body grommet I think I'm going back to my original plan of putting a fuel cell in the back and covering the back portion with a vinyl cover with snaps or buttons. It fits a 46-64 CJ-2A,3A, and 3B for $175.00 plus shipping

[gmwillys]

The steering box mount looks good! The fuel cell plan sounds like a winner. Too bad the fuel tank isn't for a wagon. I have a couple extra original 2A tanks that are cleaned and ready to go. I cleaned my wagon tank, but the way it mounts to the rear body invokes dirt to build up on top of the tank, and rots out the rear body panel, bellow the tail gate. Amazing to me, the tank was in good shape.

Your frame is looking really good.

[LarrBeard]

I am pleasantly surprised at how he got the whole frame hot enough get the coat to stick. Looks very good.

[TJones]

LarrBeard they have a oven in their shop that is 40’ x 40’ and he says it heats up to 800 degrees F, they told me they powder coat a lot of stuff for the military and they need it to get that hot to meet the spec’s they want.

Thanks Guys I’m taking my time and thinking ahead, well sometimes anyways “ like the fuel tank verses the fuel cell “

[gmwillys]

Time taken now, saves time redoing later. I spent the last week building a platform for the step daughter's washer and dryer. The stand started with a pile of some leftover 2X4 studs and a 4x4 post. We had taken measurements of what was needed, but hadn't thought too much about the actual design. The frame was built, and spent an evening after work studying different thoughts. The final product was an old mission style door. An evening was used up cutting and piecing the boards together creating a pattern, then the next two sanding and staining. Then the final night to clear coat. It turned out well enough, my long suffering Misses wants one for our kitchen remodel... Tomorrow sounds like a good day to start on the second piece.

P.S. living in Montana, now I'm jealous again. I keep threatening to move to Alaska. The misses says hell no, it's too cold. I like the cold. Montana might be a good compromise.

[TJones]

Not really gm, I would wake up sometimes it would be 70 and by night time it would be 15 with 2’ of snow on the ground, the altitude where we hunted would really mess with the weather.
NE Ohio is fine for now but Nana wants to get a house in Murrells Inlet S.C. So we can spend more time with our 2 granddaughters down there, but we have 1 up here and another coming in February up here as well.
So Papa needs to keep working for a little while, so Nana can commute back and forth for now:p

[gmwillys]

I spent 9 years in mid state Minnesota. Usually once a year you would have a period of two weeks that it would drop to -40 actual air temp, with a -50 wind chill. The last 5 years were spent working for a local county, working on heavy equipment. Nothing ever breaks when it's nice outside. At those temps, moldboards would crack, and air cleaners would pack with ice. The hydraulic shocks on the pick up would be stiff and crunch over every bump.

The altitude would be the biggest hurdle. I'm not near as young as I used to be, and cigars and Marlboros sure wouldn't help matters. In all actuality, it isn't so much about the geographic location or climate, but more the lack of people close by. I tend to like my neighbors a little more spread out.

[TJones]

Mike at Kaiser-Willys told me he would refund me for the plastic tank,straps,felt strips,sending unit,chrome cap and the body rubber if I sent it all back!!!
Now that's customers service at it's finest!!!

[gmwillys]

Good deal. Mike is good to deal with. I haven't had to send anything back as of yet, but it's good to know that they take good care of us. Pelagro has said that he has good luck as well, except for the fuel tank well, but that probably came from a sub contractor.

[TJones]

They must sub a lot out, take a look at their place on google maps in Aiken SC it is pretty small for as much as they sell on Kaiser Willy’s.
I started cutting out the fuel filler indent on the drivers side so I could fill it in and the tool box beings i won’t be able to use it once everything is together. The boys in the Philippens must practice weld on the tool box due to the inside you can’t see, after 5 cut off wheels she broke free WOW they must not of wanted it to come loose!!!!

[TJones]

3551355235533554

[gmwillys]

Pelagro can add that the original Willy's workers must have been paid by the spot welds. There is no consistent manner that the spot welds were laid out. I know I burned out the guide pin on the spot weld cutter, but boy did it make life easier.

Just as a random thought, I wonder how hard it would be to make/modify a weather proof vault or box to put under the seat? Have the door drop down forward to the floor board. Just a thought.

Your fill in job looks really good!

[TJones]

I’m thinking of building a box to put between the seats and mounting it on top of the angles that the seats sit on, I have about 12-18”s between them and put a master kill switch in that box and have the box lockable and maybe mount the battery box under the passenger seat.
I guess I’m not really sure what I’m going to do yet so maybe it’s time to sit on a bucket again and do some thinking over a beer and a Winston:rolleyes:

[gmwillys]

I sometimes have random thoughts like that. I know when the long suffering Misses rides with, she has to hold on to her purse. Since our 2A has a tool box and lid, I was trying to engineer a weatherproof vault to put valuables within to be secure. It hasn't gone beyond the drawing board, since the 2A isn't in line for any work to be done, except maintenance.

[TJones]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3559
The Bride said it was her day and not the Jeeps so she had me build a set of steps so our 140 lb rottie could get up in the bed with us:D:)

[gmwillys]

I know the situation. I've spent the last three days building a riser for the washer and dryer. This is a snowball effect because I built one for the step daughter for Christmas, so the long suffering made the statement that it would be nice to have since we had planned to put down new flooring while I'm off. So today the riser was finished, so tomorrow starts the floor. Hopefully by the end of the week all the household projects will be completed, so I can get back to the heep..... Wishful thinking because just as soon as I uncover the welder, something breaks here or at the monster in law's.
Your rottie is a good looking dog. We have three and a stray. One was a flea market freebie. She is a hienz 57 as far as breed, and is the garage dog. The second one is a lab walker hound mix, and she is stupid. She will stand out in the rain, for no apparent reason. The third is my buddy. She is a pure bread German Shepherd. She is the protector of everything. Nothing goes without her knowing first. The last puppy is a pit bull mix, that isn't very bright. She was dumped off, and is still in search of her forever home.

[TJones]

I understand perfectly, the Bride has completely ruined 4 very good dogs,our rot, a australian Shepard, a lab and a pit bull hienz mix so I understand your pain. We have the aussie and the pit bull mix at the shop and the lab and chubby at the the house and for the life of me I think if she had to make a choice I’d be GONE!!!
I love them all but if someone would ever break into the house or shop and she was there it would be a blood bath when I came back and Mom would say I’m not sure what happened. 3560356135623563

[TJones]

Digger the Aussie
Dozer the Pit Mix
Harley the lab
And Bella the Fat So Rottie

[gmwillys]

Everyone is scared of the Shepard, but the one that is the most unpredictable is the oldest dog. She bares her teeth if anyone comes to the garage door. She is good if she knows you, but angry if she doesn't. This happened after she was spayed. Must be a hormone deficiency.

[TJones]

The same with Bella the rot, she’ll be 4 in March and Harley is 9 she owns all the toys,the treats,the beds,the house and both owners. She rattles the windows if someone cuts through the yard or knocks on the door.
But like I said Mom has ruined them all by spoiling them, Bella is intimidating bc of her size but I don’t think any of them would bite anyone except Dozer at the shop, but maybe not if she was home alone and someone broke in.
The other 1 at the shop, (we had to put the Aussie to sleep last year)has full range of a 12,000 sf dog house. He’s only 45 lbs but has the bark of a 145 lb dog and is VERY racist the neighbors call him NED. The N^**eR Eating Dog. Someone tried to kick in the rear door one night last year and when they got in they left in a hurry leaving behind their tools and a big section of their pant leg and one tennis shoe that were both covered in blood so needless to say the shop is safe.

[gmwillys]

I worked for a guy during high school, at his salvage yard. He had a rottie who was every bit of 200 lbs. He rode with on every tow call and reposition. Nobody would approach the truck, just because he was in there. He wouldn't bite a hot biscuit, but looked very intimidating. He stayed in the tow in lot with a nice heated dog house. Nobody bothered the cars in the lot. The only problem was that he didn't like Volkswagen nettle tires. It was learned that if one was towed in, it had to be put in the other lot. The crazy dog would bite through all four tires. We couldn't figure out if it was the narrow width of the tires, or the noise the car made with the air-cooled engine.

[TJones]

Happy New Years guys and Girls!!!
This is us at 9-9:30 on amateur night for the last 8-10 years3578

[gmwillys]

Change the TV to individual tablets, then I would think it was our living room. Archie and Edith in for the night.

[TJones]

Took the fender in today to get sand blasted and gave it to my body guy to do his magic filling in the spot welds. Next is to the powdercoating shop to do his magic.
I’m leaving for Puerto Rico on Tuesday for a much needed 2 week vacation from all this BS and body guy is dropping it off to see how it comes out.
If it looks good EVERYTHING is getting PCoated when I’m ready!!!!

[gmwillys]

Have a good vacation! I'm wrapping up my two weeks on Monday. We didn't go anywhere exciting, just worked on the rust ranch. Finished up putting down new flooring in the kitchen, the started the living room floor this afternoon. Pulling carpet is the pits.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the powder coating comes out.

[TJones]

Got 1 front fender PCed and it came out sweet. 36663667366836693670

[gmwillys]

Looks great! Hope you had a restful vacation.

[TJones]

Actually I’m still on it for another week!!!
Went fishing yesterday and caught 15 Rainbow Runners,1 king Mackerel and a 135 lb Reef Shark.36713672

[gmwillys]

Good deal. Enjoy your time in the sun!

[TJones]

3679368036813682

Done playing on the beach, time to get back to work:cool::cool:

[gmwillys]

The orange reminds me of my folks last CJ5 Renegade. Looks great on the frame!

[TJones]

Thanks gm, my body guy wants to take it now and wet sand it and see if he can sand/buff out the orange peel and get it powder coated with another coat of clear.
He's thinking the clear PC might be a little tough to wet sand but we'll see what happens,
I personally think it looks good enough now.

[gmwillys]

It will be smooth as glass after wet sanding, then the clear powder coat will keep everything looking good. You'll have a slick ride when it's all done. I can't wait to see it all together.
I'm shooting for Sunday to start cutting out the driver's side floor on the wagon. I've put it off for too long, besides you all are making me look sad for not making any progress of my own.... The welders all tuned up, and I have got a big stack of cutting disks, so no excuses.

[TJones]

You need to post some pictures of your Heep Project gm, whoever came up with "Heep" hit the nail on the head. You take one step forward and 2 steps back.
Every time I get something done on mine I sit back down on my bucket (actually I bought a seat that rolls around at Menards) and stare at my Heep and I always come up with something else i want to do different.
The last sit down was I had the springs all bolted up and thought I need to get the spring plates and U-bolts chromed. so off they came and down to the chrome shop they went. So today they are going back on, now the Bride says "I thought you did all that the week before we went on vacation" I just tell her "You just don't understand Dear"

[LarrBeard]

You noted: " I just tell her "You just don't understand Dear"

Try: "I'm just trying to make it look good Dear. I want the Old Jeep to be as good looking as the lady riding in it."

You silver tongued devil, you.

[TJones]

I better stop now LarrBeard, I’d have to spend a fortune to get it even close to being better looking than my bride!!!!!
It only took 2 times for me to find my “Soulmate” and everyone says I married WAY OVER MY HEAD this time and I agree!!3683

[gmwillys]

The term Heep came from Mexico. They say Heep, mine was a heap, so we adopted the Mexican version as a tongue in cheek to our Jeeps.
There is nothing wrong with out punting your coverage. They say love is blind, my long suffering misses needs a seeing eye dog.
A project will take 4 times longer to complete and cost 6 times more than you figured. It's better to sit back on your creaper chair and study things. A beer and a Winston, study some more, then figure out the upgrades.
There is not much for me to photograph at the moment. The bad part about a heep, it has too many flat surfaces for crap to accumulate. It should be far enough from the door to keep most items from being walked over to be set down upon it. The long suffering Misses tends to be a pilot. She does pile stuff here and there, so every day there is something new on it. Last weekend was a cleaning day, so I can see the floor again.

[TJones]

Got my tie rods back today376437653766

[gmwillys]

Looks great! The heim joints will be a nice touch.

[TJones]

On to my brake and clutch pedals, this was a little bit of a B&^%H doing by yourself

3822382338243825

[gmwillys]

Looks great! It will be good to have the adjustable brake bias. At this moment I don't remember if you were going to run disk brakes or not, and I'm being lazy to not thumb through to fact check. Either way, the adjustment will give you the flexibility you will need.

[TJones]

No disc brakes, I switched it over to 11" truck brakes right after I started on it though i am hoping those will wooo it:):)

P.S. gm your mailbox wont take any more messages ........its full imagine that

[gmwillys]

I'll attend to it. That's why I ended up replicating the responses the other night. It isn't as easy on a tablet to see what was going on.... Or it's just me.

Give it another shot. You might have to start a new thread. Looks like there is a Max of 5,000 words per thread, or message.

[TJones]

Got a little nervous about the swing pedals flexing the firewall so I made a 1/4" plate to stiffin everything up, now I feel comfortable JIC I need to make a OH S&*T stop...39203921

[LarrBeard]

Now that is one worthwhile modification!

I'm jealous that one of the phone companies stole the best tag line about brake repair:

"Well, if the brakes don't stop it, something else will". If you can't stop it, don't start it.

[TJones]

Thats why I did it Larrbead, I was nervous about getting her to wooo.
I cut a square section out and welded a solid piece back in and after I mounted the swing pedals it was kind of flimsy and GM told me that I should make sure it would support a Oh Sh^T stop so I sat on my bucket and had a beer and a winston and thought if the Bride was with me i I didnt want something else to stop me.......
So I made it where it was solid Just in Case.

[gmwillys]

Well done! That will keep your foot from pushing out the firewall. Looks good!

[TJones]

Thanks Buddy, my your up awful bright and early.....

[gmwillys]

True, I 've been to work for almost an hour already. Through the week, I'm up at 02:30, and out the door by 03:30. Soon it will be the weekends too. Uncle Sam has sent out new contracts, so we will be busy for a couple of years to come.

[TJones]

Thats a Good thing..........I guess. As long as y'all are getting paid.
I still havent got our Heavy Highway Use Tax stamped copy back from Uncle Sam yet, the Bride was on the phone with them for 2 hours on Friday trying to get it resolved, still nothing.

[gmwillys]

Being an independent contractor, the eagle doesn't fail to s**t on pay day. The last shutdown didn't effect anything to do with the military, minus the coast guard. So it was business as usual.

God love anyone who can sit on the phone and wait on someone to do something. President Reagan said it best, " The most terrifying words in the English language, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help".

[TJones]

Been a long Day, My Daughter went in to labor last night and Papa and Nana been at the hospital (from 3:00 pm yesterday until 3:00 am this morning) to witness our 4th Grand Baby be born at 3:00 this morning then up at 4:30 this morning for work!!!!!
It was a Boy THANK GOD the 3 girls are killing me................
Everyone is healthy sept for Papa he's tired, but he will can get over that......
ALL'S Good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gmwillys]

Congrats Papa TJones!

I married into three Grandkids, two girls and a boy. The boy is 14, and 6'3", and 210 lbs. He will get to have some seat time in the 2A this summer, if I can teach him that real cars have three pedals. The middle girl is our cheerleader. She is 10, and says "like" at the beginning, middle, and end of every sentence. Her ball games are on Saturdays, and her dad works most, so it's pops to the rescue. The youngest is 4. If people didn't know better, that she isn't blood related. She frowns just like her pops.
I have a 13 year old girl from my first go around, as well. I'm often surrounded by an estrogen ocean with the three girls, and the long suffering Misses. Let's not even mention anything about when the monster in law breezes in.

[LarrBeard]

Everyone is healthy sept for Papa he's tired, but he will can get over that...... ALL'S Good!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now you can start to spoil that little guy and teach him all the things his mother doesn't want PapPaw to show him.

[TJones]

Oh you can bet on that LarrBeard, between that and Nana spoiling him to death Mom and Dad might think twice about bringing Jr. over to Nana and Papa's:rolleyes::D:p

[gmwillys]

Not a chance. Free babysitting is worth the tradeoff. Anymore, these children teach us things all the time, especially with electronics. I'll stick with my role of teaching them how to lay down a good Rockford reverse drop, or the art of double clutching.

[TJones]

I have question about the headlights on my 52 M38 grille since converted to a CJ-3A, my project came with chrome headlight rings on it and I need to replace them. That being said the M38 did not come with chrome headlight rings (see attached picture of what I have) and KW does not sell the chrome ring with the 3 holes in it to screw it to the bezel any ideas from the 3 Wise Men or anyone else?
I have attached the pictures of the grille,headlight bezel,screws,springs and the chrome ring.39843982398339853986

[gmwillys]

TJones,

Let me see if I'm tracking.... Or better yet, I'll throw on some photos of some of my prior M38 / CJ3A-M38 to see what ones you are hunting;


The first two pictures are of a MD Juan bodied M38-CJ3A. The grill is mostly M38, with the headlight buckets out of a CJ3A. The second set was an honest M38. The passenger side headlamp is missing the top bezel screw tang. That heep of parts only had one bezel with it. If I'm following correctly, you are wanting the M38 style of bezel, but in chrome? Let me throw an idea your way, if a set of M38 bezels can be located, are you apposed to having them powder coated?

NOS M38 bezels are going for $40 each, they are on the link, but have to thumb down about 3/4 the page;

https://www.debellajeepparts.com/m38premier.htm

If you would like to go the route of the single screw bezel, I'd have to look before making any promises, but I do have a spare wagon grill with the headlight buckets installed. I know they are there, but the condition is questionable. I doubt that there were bezels on them. Just an added option.

[TJones]

Thanks GM.
Mine are identical to yours on the M38 but mine are chrome (a little rusty) with the 3 hole's for mounting. I cant seem to find chrome ones anywhere, all I can find are the 1 screw version.
All the headlight buckets,rings and motor parts are at the PCing shop now so I will see how they come out and if I dont like them I will get the ones I have chromed I guess unless I find chrome ones somewhere.
I talked to Mike at KW's and seems to think mine were added bc the M38 didnt come with the headlight rings at all and all the chrome ones he has are the single hole with the clip at the top and I'm not sure if those will work with my bucket.

[gmwillys]

No problem.

I don't think I've ever seen a chrome three screw ring, because the later CJ3Bs and CJ5s were a different style, meaning that they were more cone shaped. A chrome silver powder coat may look fairly good. I know some years back some of the Nascar teams were running powder coated silver wheels, because chrome was too heavy. Couldn't tell unless you were close up. Just an idea.

[TJones]

I just talked to Jerry the original owner and he said he did have them chromed when he owned it, a lot of questions answered tonight.
I am having the rings powder coated Wet Black like the frame so I am going to see how it looks against the orange grille and we'll go from there.

[gmwillys]

That will look good. That makes complete sense. Compared to now, chroming was cheap 30 years ago or so. If it didn't move, (on its own) it was chromed.

[TJones]

Welded up the turn signal holes in the grille and drilled them back out with a 3-1/8" hole saw to fit some 3" fog lights beings I am going to put LED headlights with running lights,headlights and turn signals built in.
403040314032

[gmwillys]

Looks great! I like your idea of the fog lights. They look like they belong there.
I like the idea of the headlights with the integrated turn signals. There is a gen 1 Bronco that cruises around locally, with green halo LED headlights. Being that nobody uses turn signals here, I can only imagine that the turn signals are integrated. If the lights can be set to turquoise and rust color, I'll use them on the wagon!

[TJones]

Thanks GM40354036 here are the headlights I am looking at and they half fast match the body color

[TJones]

This thing is wearing me out :(:(:(

[gmwillys]

I like the lights. They look much better on a real Jeep, not the mall crawlers that never see anything other than Starbucks.

This is a labor of tolerance. Really it's mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter. Just think how much fun you and your Bride will have cruising around. At this rate, I'll have the wagon at least on the road by the time I die.

[TJones]

I am starting to think the same thing Buddy, or maybe when the latest Grand Baby is old enough to drive!!!!!!

[gmwillys]

I wrote on here some time back of my wish to hold a Viking funeral after my passing. I just have to get it running and moving by then.

[TJones]

I bought a aftermarket gauge set for my project and I’m wondering if anyone knows the thread size and count of a stock Jeep speedometer?
The one I bought is 5/8”-18 and I want to use the stock adapter on a Dana 18 transfer case.

[TJones]

406940704071

Got my headlights finished today and my wheels and tires on as well.

[gmwillys]

That's a good question on the Speedo threads. When I get a chance, I'll dig into it. I know I have one spare cable on the shelf.
The headlights look great!

[TJones]

I emailed Mike at KW and wasn't sure what his were as far as the stock speedo threads.

[TJones]

Tailights installed today, next is the Speedo and Gauges.407240734074

[gmwillys]

Looks good! I'll try and get out to the garage to count the threads on the Speedo cable.

[TJones]

4075
That didnt take long.

[TJones]

Thanks GM, I have looked up the standard size on everything is 5/8-18 count. So maybe I'll just get one from KW, Mike is pretty good about taking stuff back if it doesnt work or is not what you need.

[gmwillys]

I looked in the bin this afternoon, and what I remember as being a speedo cable, was actually a parking brake cable. I'll look tomorrow to see if the wagon chassis has the cable still installed.

The gauges turned out really nice.

[TJones]

Thanks Buddy!!!

[gmwillys]

I did remember to look for the spare speedo cable. I had his it from myself on the top shelf in the garage. The size is 5/8" X 18.
You are welcome! Your ride is coming together nicely. What is the ETA on the engine?

[TJones]

Thank You GM, the motor is supposed to be put on the dyno next week (I HOPE) i am running out of tinkering things to do on it.............
That sure helps knowing that the stock speedo has a 5/8" x 18 thread count, now I can order a stock cable from KW's or Walcks and get everything in order for when I get the motor stuffed in the frame. Then the meticulous stuff starts like wiring,brakes and small tedious things like that, Thanks Again.

[TJones]

40764077

Finally the motor will be ready to install sometime next week!!!!

[gmwillys]

Looks good! I'm having a brain fade, or maybe I'm being lazy and not reading back through your posts. What are you planning to run for induction? Carb or fuel injection?
The reason I ask is that I'm on the fence about what way I want to do. It all depends on what kind of deal I can swing, or what kind of late model truck I can find in the wrecking yard. If the 350 checks out good, then I can build it up and top it off with a Holley stand alone injection set up. If I can come across a good 5.3 or 6.0 out of a truck, then I might go that way.
I guess I need to worry about getting the floor done before how to power it.

[TJones]

I bought a Holley Sniper Fuel Injection for it, I will let you know how it does on the dyno next week.
He has to cut some oxygen sensors into the headers before he puts it on the dyno.

[gmwillys]

Good deal. That was the system that I was most interested in. An oxygen sensor hung is fairly painless to put in, especially with the power pack sitting on the stand. I get to play around with engine dynos every day at work. CAT doesn't give us the ability to mess with the fuel mapping on the ACERT engines, but we used to tweak the 3126E engines, then put them out on the test track. We would get the glorified road grader tires to melt hooking the corners without letting up on the throttle. Good times.

[TJones]

Got my brake lines all ran in the last couple days after about 3 trips to Summit Racing, thank God it’s only 3 miles from my shop!!!!


Next is getting the motor and tranny stuffed in so we can start wiring it and get it mobile, then all back apart to get the tub powdercoated.414441454146

[gmwillys]

Looking good Sir! Between the brake lines and the tie rod heim joints, it looks professional!

[TJones]

Thanks Buddy
It’s taking some time, but I want it to look good and be right.

[gmwillys]

Time taken now will save you headaches later on. Keep up the good work!

[TJones]

Built me a 18 gallon fuel cell and got it mounted behind the seats, almost ready to get the tub powdercoated.4235423642374238

[gmwillys]

Looks great! You'll never have rust issues in your tank. Great job!

[TJones]

Thanks gm!!!

[TJones]

43194320432143224323
Got the brake drums powdercoated and the fuel cell back today.

[gmwillys]

Everything is coming together. I bet you are a busy bee this time a year!

[TJones]

Oh yes we are gm!!!

[TJones]

Got the hood,grille,fender,tailgate and windshield all back from the powder coated today. 43594360436143624363

[gmwillys]

Looks great! The orange reminds me of the '74 CJ 5 Renegade the folks had. Love it!

[gmwillys]

I'm going to get some of those headlights for the wagon. Too bad they don't make them for 6 volt for the 2A. Looking great!

[TJones]

4385438643874388

Had to change the pictures so you can see them without cocking your head sideways.

[gmwillys]

Thank you. The long suffering Misses tends to ask me what I'm looking at when I tip my head to the side....

[TJones]

Mine does as well:o:o

[TJones]

Finally got my fuel pump and filters mounted and the fuel lines ran to feed the Sniper fuel injection.44064407440844094410

[TJones]

441144124413

[gmwillys]

Looks great! I like how you have set up the supply. With the size of fuel line, you could feed a big block....

[TJones]

The Sniper needs a size -6AN line which is 3/8 and it needs 58.5 lbs of pressure to it. I didn’t have to put a regulator in-line bc the Sniper has it built in.
All that’s left is to get the motor/tranny bolted in and a roll cage built then I can send the tub out to get powder coated.
There’s light at the end of the tunnel and I’m hoping it’s not a freight train:D:o

[gmwillys]

I'm curious to see the Sniper system at work. I want to something similar to the wagon.

[TJones]

You must have a alarm or 2 (dogs) that get you up so early on a Saturday morning!!!

[TJones]

I talked to Jay at “Willy’s Overland” yesterday and he wants me to drive it to Toledo in August to the Jeep Rally there having.
I told him if it’s done I might trailer it to Toledo, 2 hours is a long way with no top. The last time I went to Toledo was when I bought the body and it rained all the way home!!!

[LarrBeard]

I talked to Jay at “Willy’s Overland” yesterday and he wants me to drive it to Toledo in August to the Jeep Rally there having.
I told him if it’s done I might trailer it to Toledo, 2 hours is a long way with no top. The last time I went to Toledo was when I bought the body and it rained all the way home!!!

A very good friend of mine insists that he is going to haul the '48 over to Toledo in his new car carrier trailer. (I suspect he wants to make a road trip with it). But - I have to bring it home on Sunday.

Like you, it's only about 2 hours and at least I'll have a roof over my head. Now, will the wipers work and is the windshield leak really fixed?

[gmwillys]

I had already been at work for over an hour by that time. With twelve hours in now, it's about time to head for the house. Great deal to show off your ride!

[TJones]

Got my windsheild frame back from the powdercoater yesterday and starting the "Nightmare" of wiring the beast this weekend.
Hopefully the "Painless Performance" wiring harness i bought will make it a little less painful!!!!44374438443944404441

[gmwillys]

The worst part is getting contorted to being able to get arms and at least one eye back behind the dash to run the wires. It is coming along nicely! The windshield frame came out really well!

[TJones]

I will admit their harness is pretty idiot proof, they have each section wire tied together telling you if it goes to the dash,tail end, grille, or engine compartment and every wire is labeled from one end to the other telling you what it runs and they are all numbered.
I think I’m going to try and run everything in 1/2” and 5/8” aluminum tubing so when you open the hood you won’t see any wires and plug everything into the steel box I made on the firewall with AN bulkhead fittings.
We’ll see how that goes.

[LarrBeard]

The worst part is getting contorted to being able to get arms and at least one eye back behind the dash to run the wires. It is coming along nicely! The windshield frame came out really well!a

I've found that a set of reading glasses and a headlight help a lot.

[TJones]

Yes Sir
I have them everywhere Larrbeard ( reading glasses that is), getting Old ain’t for sissy’s that’s for sure!!!

[bmorgil]

I use two of these ECFHKY Snap On Magnetic LED cordless lights and big readers! They are small and super bright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCPXO9rQvB0

Is it me or does it hurt more as a senior when the wrench slips and you punch the frame rail?

[TJones]

No your right bmorgil it does hurt more (and bleeds more when your on blood thinners) when your a senior:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[LarrBeard]

Is it me or does it hurt more ...?

The only advantage we have is that we have had enough hurts, cuts, scrapes, aches and pains so we are able to recognize when something serious is going on .....

[gmwillys]

When the old timers said you'll regret doing that,(insert anything here) they were right. After having about enough stitches to stitch a bag of baseballs, and enough casts to cover each limb, it takes some inspiration to get moving in the morning.

If I was rolling in money, I would seriously consider having some double byfocal glasses made, (the magnifier lens at the bottom, then another at the top. Way to often, I struggle to get things in focus above my head, or laying up under something.

[LarrBeard]

" ...I would seriously consider having some double byfocal glasses made, .."

What you are describing are called "Painter's Glasses".


Think about a painter atop a ladder having to look up to do close detail work.

[gmwillys]

Makes sense. Our metal shop teacher had a set, because he insisted that every weld pass made, had to be overhead.

[TJones]

I got a price from a local chassis builder to build a roll cage on my "Money Pit before I send the tub out to get it powder coated" and he almost took my breath away, he said "well if you want it nice" (like i wanted him to do a sh&^$ty job) it will be somewhere between $3,500 & $4,000.
After taking a deep breath,gulping 4-5 times and watching the Brides eyes roll around like she was married to a Crazy Man.......... I figured I would look around on the internet, lo and behold I found a place in Iowa that pre-bends and pre-notches 2" tubing for almost any make and model Heep.
So I ordered a kit from him "extremecustomparts.com" and he offers FREE delivery all for less than $1,000. I figured I could tack it all together and take it to a weld shop and have them Tig weld it all to make it look like someone knew what they were doing!!!





44574458445944604461

[bmorgil]

TJones, I am not sure where you are going to get the TIG work done but, you may want to check out your project with them. I had some custom stainless offshore racing exhaust made for a powerboat. Just the pipes from the headers through the hull. They are water cooled and pressurized. I used kind of the same concept you are using. I machined and assembled the pieces and took them to the weld shop. TIG work can be expensive. The welding was over $1000 many years ago. I can tell you that some of the modern MIG machines do a great good looking job. MIG does have more spatter but, it can be cleaned up easily. MIG might be more practical. It does not look like the hand welded TIG work of an experienced TIG welder, it is very smooth when done right however.

[TJones]

bmorgil Thanks for the advice, but the guy thats building my motor and I are doing some horse trading, he needs 2 houses tore down at his shop to make room for more parking and I am an excavating contractor, so our vocations work well together as far as horse trading goes.
He builds a lot of NHRA and IHRA drag chassis and motors/trannys and he has a guy at his shop that is Areospace Certified and does nothing but TIG weld all day long, so he said he would have him do it if I got it all tacked together.
I have a Linclon wire feed a friend gave me when I started my money pit and it does a pretty good job, but I would like to have it TIG welded to make it look "like someone knew what they were doing"!!!

[bmorgil]

Your in TJones! Horse trading is the best value for all involved. I do love the look of a good TIG weld. A bit like art.

[TJones]

Me too bmorgil, it is a work of art and welders have a gift that do it!!!!

[TJones]

It has been a long 2 days but I got my cage all tacked together...........


45084509451045114512

[LarrBeard]

Nice! It looks like it will keep your head out of the dirt if you go upsy-daisy over.

I hope you never test it.

[gmwillys]

Looks great!

[TJones]

Asphalt is the only thing she’s going to be on....or maybe concrete and the back yard grass.
I probably will never have it in 4 wheel drive if the truth be known!!!

[gmwillys]

Not even a trail ride? Please don't neuter your ride to a mall crawler!

Just kidding.... Mostly.

[TJones]

Weeeellllll maybe:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[bmorgil]

Haha I am with you TJones! I also am producing a Garage Queen". It only goes on clean trails when the sun is shining.

[TJones]

45274528452945304531

[gmwillys]

Looking good!

[bmorgil]

That is a lot of welding!

[TJones]

Nana went to Myrtle Beach Wednesday bc our oldest Granddaughter had her tonsils taken out on Friday and her ONLY request was to have Nana come down and eat ice cream and popsicles with her, that took about 2 seconds b4 Nana booked her flight on Monday.
Sooooo Papa was batching it this weekend so I burnt some wire up, drank a few Heinekens, smoke a few
cigarettes and got my roll cage done and finished today putting in some gussets and a couple Oh **** bars and got everything welded and ready to get powder coated.

[TJones]

Happy Fathers Day to all the Dads,Step-Dads,Grand Dads and Role Models in your Kids and Grand Childrens Lives!!!!!

[TJones]

At a cross-road now.
My PCer has done both fenders,the grille,hood,tailgate and the windshield and the colors are coming out different shades.
They are milky from the clear or the orange is faded dark or light they are all different.
He’s tried re baking them only to find out the PC bubbles up and he has to reblast them and then I have to take em back and let the body guy re mud them up.
I’m about to Stop pcing and just find a metal flake orange and paint the damn thing so it matches.
Frustrating

[bmorgil]

TJones, how well does the powder coat hold up to UV from the sun? I wonder if it will change color as the sun interacts with it. I have never seen a powder coated body. This is very interesting for sure.

[LarrBeard]

TJones, how well does the powder coat hold up to UV from the sun?

On the '48 we powder coated the wheels instead of painting them. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but over the last three years I've lost some of the satisfaction even though they looked really good at first.

It is difficult to get good coverage around corners into hidden areas on wheels; areas like the slots around the rims. This leaves a few bare places that tend to give a rust streak.

In my case, the powder coating seems to be a bit porous as well. It discolors - not exactly a rust - but the discoloration usually cleans up with fine steel wool.

We live and learn.

[gmwillys]

It sounded like a great idea. Is he using different batches of orange, or where they done all at once? It sounds to me that it is operator error. Manufactures have been using powder coating for decades, and are fairly consistent in the color matches. I keep wanting to buy a kit to do some piece parts at home, but need to find an old oven to bake them in..... I'd hate to stink up the kitchen.

[LarrBeard]

' ... but need to find an old oven to bake them in..... I'd hate to stink up the kitchen.

Lowes, Home Depot and similar stores often take in old stoves in trade. We needed a load to test a 30 KW generator we had done an electrical control upgrade on. We went to Menards and got two old electric stoves for $25/each and used them to put the generator under close to full load.

Then we sold the stoves as "checked, cleaned and working" for $35/each and didn't have stoves sitting behind the garage.

[gmwillys]

True, cheap stoves are easy to come by. My problem is garage floor space. I might have just enough room left for a toaster oven. One of these days, I'll be able to put up another shop like I had in the north country.

[TJones]

I’m not real sure WTF is going on over there, but I get tired of running back and forth to have **** re-done. And my body guy gets tired of re skim coating parts bc if it doesn’t turn out he has to blast it all off...
He’s doing 1 piece at a time and I’m not sure if he’s run out of powder and had to order more that’s a shade off, but this Ole Boy is going to STOP the bleeding!!!!

[LarrBeard]

True, cheap stoves are easy to come by. My problem is garage floor space. I might have just enough room left for a toaster oven. One of these days, I'll be able to put up another shop like I had in the north country.a

That's why we had to get rid of them.

[gmwillys]

I worked down the road from an outfit called Morton Metal Craft. They handle a lot of sheet metal work for Caterpillar, John Deere, and various other Midwest manufacturing companies. They had vats of approved colors, and they go through a quality check to ensure that the sheet metal will match the rest of the machine that was powder coated at a different time, and a different location. In short, it's your local shop that is trying to soak you for their shoddy work.

[bmorgil]

Then we sold the stoves as "checked, cleaned and working" for $35/each and didn't have stoves sitting behind the garage.

Truly a Master!

[LarrBeard]

Truly a Master!

Nope, not Master Chief, just a Senior Chief.

Cheap too.

[gmwillys]

I might be able to compete with you Senior Chief, in the cheap department. At least the long suffering Misses says I am. She asks where do I want to go out to eat? I respond, where do we have coupons to?

[bmorgil]

AHHHHHHHH! I just told my wife the reason we need to pay the long dollar for a printed paper, is the coupons! As you burn down your resources, you sure do learn the value of CHEAP! Let someone else print them out! The ink for my printer cost more than the delivery.

[bmorgil]

I worked down the road from an outfit called Morton Metal Craft. They handle a lot of sheet metal work for Caterpillar, John Deere, and various other Midwest manufacturing companies. They had vats of approved colors, and they go through a quality check to ensure that the sheet metal will match the rest of the machine that was powder coated at a different time, and a different location. In short, it's your local shop that is trying to soak you for their shoddy work.

TJ, so LarrBeard transports us in, pelago provides cover, gmwillys leads us in and we raid the place! Teach them to mess with a the KW bloggers! We just need to give me about 45 minutes to "rush in".

[gmwillys]

I get the coupons from the promotional free newspapers.